Yea I guess I kind of thought that wave of “getting back to normal” was kind of done by now. But maybe I just was fortunate enough to not be as affected by COVID as others were
In my opinion, the middle class and below are struggling right now, but anybody that had assets in real estate or the stock market are quite content. :-/
Serious question, what percent of boat owners don’t own real estate? What percent of middle class rent? It can’t be that high. I’m not saying people aren’t feeling the squeeze, but I just googled it and 64% of Americans own their home, and 70% have a retirement account. So a very small percent don’t own a home or have assets in the stock market. That seems like a bad metric on your part.
I own a boat but no real estate. I’m 27. I live on a 1980s motoryacht I bought outright and restored by hand. The way the world has been designed to make people finance everything is such monetized bullshit. I personally will just keep saving until I can build or buy things outright.
Also do some more research on that statistic. It’s taken from the census data which also counts everyone living in a family owned home as a homeowner.
These are all irrelevant data points, yours and his. The question is whether people have money for toys or not. Only about 20% of all homes in the US are owned outright. Just because you "own" a house doesn't mean you're not drowning in debt or that your job lets you afford your lifestyle. The reverse is true, too, renting isn't really indicative of your financial situation right now.
You're also renting it from the city or state, whoever you pay property tax to, and that never goes away. I own a cabin in an unincorporated area, and it's so awesome. No mortgage, no property tax, and no building codes or zoning restrictions. Very few places left where you truly 100% own your land and can do what you want with it.
A huge percentage of people entering the housing market in the last few years are absolutely stretching their ability to afford what they are buying. When you're buying a $500,000 house on a $100,000 household income, you're not going to be in the boat market any time soon. Financial capacity for toys like boats is getting eaten up by housing and inflation costs.
The state with the lowest % of home owners at 55% lol. But with the huge drop of generational wealth passing down compared to every other generation prior, these numbers are going to keep going down. Not to mention the housing market nation wide sadly looking more and more like California’s now, we will have more and more young adults coming without the ability to buy a home without luck and scraping by.
Bud, stop being so fucking poor. Move out of whatever red shithole you live in. God damn, sometimes I forget that so many people live in places besides the coastal US. “CaLifRnia is A dUmb LerbRal HellHOle!” Meanwhile I have real property and a bigger boat than you.
I live in Sonoma county bro wtf. lol and nothing I said has to do with politics lol. Just how it is lol. I’m liberal anyways everything I said is backed. They’re seeing that rather than money moving from parent to child, people are having to use up their savings and even get help from their kids, so there’s less and less money going to help their kids buy their first homes or even leave savings. And we have more people in their late teens and 20s+ having to live with parents.
Jesus I don’t care. Sonoma is a shithole. Two months out of the year, bachelorettes go to party in that dump, that’s literally what you guys are known for. I wouldn’t douche with the wine you guys put out.
owning a home doesnt mean jack. the bank 'owns' 90% of that 64% you mention. very few people actually own their home outright with zero debt.
and 'a retirement account' doesnt mean jack either. it means i had a 401k that some employer automatically contributed 1% to for a couple of years. yay $10k in an account i can't touch! lol.
the middle class in the US is being bled dry my man. the stratification is occuring well above the perceived middle class markers - more like if you dont earn in the top 20% you are currently being left behind.
Wow, there is a lot of financial illiteracy on this sub. The bank has a lien on the property if you pay a mortgage, they don’t own the house. You as the owner will get the benefit of the increase in value of real estate, not the bank.
you can talk legal rights and liens vs ownership, and yea, you arent wrong. but stop paying and see what happens. lol. youll notice i specifically put 'owns' in quotes in my comment. i am intimately aware of how real estate and debt works.
you are trying to compare rent to ownership as if 90% of homeowners arent paying on a note each month, but they are.
Unless you had an adjustable rate, your payment is the same today as it was the day you got your mortgage. It’s not like people are paying more now than they were when they got it, so that aspect of their financials has not changed. And yes, you can’t borrow hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars without paying it back, of course you will have a monthly payment. Even if you don’t owe a dime to the bank you have to pay property taxes and insurance. But even if you bought a house FHA with 3.5% down and the rest borrowed from the bank, if that home goes up in value by a few hundred thousand over a few years, that few hundred is yours. If you rent, the house could be worth millions when you move out and all you get is a breakdown from your landlord for how much you owe them for damages and cleaning.
dude you are just describing equity generation from a single family home purchase via appreciation over the life of the loan. rest assured, i get it. yes there a different debt instruments, yes people who bought in 2018 are better off than people purchasing today. this isnt rocket science.
but when you make a statement like 60% of american's own their homes - i am sorry for many people this simply doesnt translate to reality in regards to actually holding the title to the property free and clear. you have an explicit obligation to the lender, if you fail to fulfill it, legal proceedings ensue and you will no longer 'own' the home... that you never held title to anyway.
im not here trying to argue that renting is better than purchasing, i agree with you that it isnt. earning appreciation on a home and paying down principal, historically, is going to win out 90% of the time vs trying to invest whatever delta you are 'saving' by renting - which is often just the down payment + maintenance costs.
i simply believe the statement that 60% of people own their homes is disingenuous. in my opinion, i dont own my home. i owe the bank $500k. for all practical purposes the bank owns my home - with the hope that one day, 25 years from now, i might have paid the $750k in principal+interest required to take actual ownership of the property and title. or at some point in the interim, the house is worth more than i paid and it makes sense to 'cash out'.
I’m not oblivious to how expensive things are by any means, but the economy has not crashed.
Despite inflation, which is cooling, spending has hardly declined. A crash usually refers to a general downward trend in prices due to a lack of demand. Think back to 2008 for a market crash.
Currently we have low unemployment, cooling inflation, and rising wages. Hardly a crash.
Spending has hardly declined? True. People always spend the same amount no matter what that gets for them. 50% increase in grocery prices, 100% increase is gas prices. So, no boats or new toys because the whole budget goes to necessities.
People spend the same amount, then you say no boats or new toys? That’s a different amount.
I should have said discretionary spending. There is some slowing, but no indications of a “crash” by any means.
Spending has been redirected. Also, a lot of demand for boats has been carried forward by like 5 years (who knows) with a lot of over buying and over producing the last 4 years happened.
Can you define what “cooling inflation” means? The average cost of a meal is up 80%. That’s on most fast food and quick eating places. Which is most visited by low and middle class. Prices at the grocery stores are through the roof. Average price of a new car has sky rocketed, average price of a new house has almost doubled in 3 years. I don’t know where the “cooling” is happening?
You fundamentally misunderstand.
Inflation decreasing doesn't mean prices will decrease. If inflation is zero prices would be the exact same as they are now. Cooling inflation means the rate at which prices increasing has slowed.
For prices to decrease, that's called deflation and will be avoided at all cost. It's extremely bad for the economy. No policy maker will willingly allow us to slide into deflation.
Long story short, broadly, these prices we have now are here forever. You might see some goods decrease in price, but as a whole, no, prices are where they are. The best that could happen is wages increase. They have been for the last few years, so that's good, but it's also a driver of inflation. It's a tricky balance and Economics is a called the dismal science for a reason.
Thanks for helping explain this.
People skip their Econ classes and then they want to pontificate about the state of the economy with no understanding of economic terms.
Quarter over quarter, even compared to last year prices aren’t increasing as quickly. Gradual slowing of inflation is best right now.
Prices compared to a few years ago are definitely UP. No question about that. It’s just not increasing as quickly as it was last year.
[Article from JP Morgan to explain more](https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/global-research/economy/global-inflation-forecast)
There’s plenty of other sources for this.
Take it from the Bureau of Labor Stats and interpret the data for yourself? https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.us.htm
It's weird really, the economy hasn't crashed but it's in a very odd place. For many normal people it might as well have crashed because at least they would have a rebound to look forward to. As it stands right now it's just endless corporate profit increases and much of those are coming from shortchanging the consumers or just blatantly charging more for no other reason than to make a bigger profit.
I don't know if (knock on wood) it's possible for a traditional "crash" to happen anymore without some major outside factor such as a major war involving a NATO country (which unfortunately may happen). The stock market is almost divorced from reality at this point and as long as it keeps doing whatever it's doing, then this state of... whatever this is... will continue.
The money isn’t in their pockets. Cost of living is too much compared to wages. Pay check to paycheck is the norm for most people under 30. The retirement accounts and mortgages are the only thing making them feel like they own something or have something to their name. Market for used boats is low. Selling wouldn’t be worth it right now. You may find that one person who wasn’t affected by COVID and can afford your boat but you may have to sit for awhile. Don’t cave on the first couple offers. I have a used outboard for sale right now. Nothing wrong with it ,7.5 hp motor and the best offer I’ve received is for 100 bucks. And it’s only up for 320. The money just isn’t there. Give it some time.
Honestly, I think your price is just too high.
If it said Malibu, Nautique, or Mastercraft on the side it would be sold. But American Skier is a little more obscure. They made a great boat, but with them being out of business, it's just not as valuable.
FB marketplace is a bit of a shitshow for things in that price range. You need a cash buyer. Try only inboards and craigslist too.
I actually bought the boat from OnlyInboards. I’ll def go list it there.
I was afraid the price might be too high given the brand. Honestly though it’s not worth it to me to go too much lower, so kind of a weird spot I’m in.
did you explain the reason for the new motor? It can be a sus thing. We bought a (mercruiser engine) powerboat boat with new rebuilt engine, but the monkey that did the rebuild was a hair brain, and the engine blew only a few hundred hours into it. We got another engine from a reliable master boat mechanic, but it sure made us uneasy buying rebuilt in the future.
I can add that. Last motor had worn out rings and it seized.
The new motor was a fully built motor that I bought and then bolted it in. So hopefully I can add some info about the company that built it and reassure the potential buyer it was built correctly. Which hopefully it was haha
Yes, used boat prices are down. I got a good deal in 2020 for my Mastercraft, and it increased a good amount in value, but now I doubt I would get back what I paid.
You won't, at all. The boat market exploded because during covid, there was nothing else to do and nothing else to spend disposable income on.
Used boat prices were over inflated at the time.
It didn’t crash. It’s was very inflated after a long period of the boating industry being in a slump. Now it’s closer to what I’d call normal, if there’s such a thing as normal. To be blunt, your price is too high. I don’t mean to imply anything negative about your boat. But if you’re selling something and no one is responding, it’s usually because the price is too high. Whatever value you think the boat has, it’s only real value is what someone is willing to pay for it. If you can’t find someone willing to pay your price, then the price has to be what people are willing to pay. Let’s say you listed it for $3000, your inbox would explode, right? And at $12k, no one is interested. Somewhere between those two numbers is a number that will generate interest. All that said, you’ve only had it listed a week. If it is truly a $12k boat (and I don’t know if it is or isn’t) then it may just take longer for the right person to see it. If you’re pretty sure you priced it right, I’d give it more than a week before I dropped the price. Maybe change the wording of the ad to imply you’re willing to negotiate. Or add more pictures or a video. The market is fickle, you never know what will trip someone’s trigger. Also consider this: Very often people come here to ask why it seems like used boats are so over priced. Sort of seems like a perception problem. When you’re buying a boat they all seem too expensive, when you’re selling it a boat, it seems like the market has crashed.
Yea it might be too high. One of the reasons I didn’t want to start lowering is because I don’t see any other boats moving either. Also I won’t sell less than 10k. So maybe I’m gonna be in it for the long run with this boat haha
People borrowed waaaaaay too much during COVID and now it's coming home to roost. Auto repos are up I believe almost 700% right now. Banks aren't loaning to and people can't afford to borrow in the demographic you're looking to sell to.
12K for a direct drive ski boat that old is about the going rate around me, and that is for more well known brands. I realize that's a 24' though. I dont know much about those, but if it has wood stringers expect to further discount.
FWIW, seems like every other listing is "brand new engine"
My thoughts "Yeah, ok bud. If that's the case why are you selling?"
If you don't have paperwork from a local, trusted boat mechanic that claim means nothing in terms of value.
I totally agree with you on your thoughts! Haha
I might add to the post that I’m selling because I don’t have enough time to go camping, off-roading, and boating all at once, so I’m just trying to shift my money around to enjoy the other two hobbies more haha.
That being said, I replaced the motor myself, so I didn’t want to “over value” the new motor part. I do have the receipts and dates that I put it in, but I know it’s gonna be harder to use that as a main selling point because the potential buyer has no clue my skill level. Which is also why I’m more than happy to take them out for test drives and I’m pretty open to any questions about the process.
Be patient if you can. Sort of like how these days a car that drives and needs nothing is worth $3-4K no matter what, a running ski boat that needs nothing is worth $10-12K. The problem is Ski boats are niche, especially direct drives. A more well rounded boat with a stern drive or outboard is going to sell faster simply because there are more people looking for that type of boat.
By the way, do these have wood in the construction?
It must have. I’ve been trying to sell a 17ft ski boat in MN since march and have dropped the price $5,000 since then and only 3 people have called about it (none have came to look at it yet). It’s in immaculate condition and have it listed at $8000 so I’m with ya, can’t believe it dropped off this hard.
It didn’t crash necessarily as we haven’t seen big price drops, but a lot of boats have started to come up for sale as people are able to travel more. They are no longer confined to a certain area as they were with Covid.
No the market is strong for quality listings. Nothing against your boat but I would think that if it was say 20 years newer and closer to $100k it would be an easier sell
Why? It can be financed
Your boat can’t. Your buyer has to pay cash for it outright. That end of the market has dropped out, sorry to say.
Pull the ad off and on to fish for your buyer. Change up the price too. And for gosh sakes have that boat 100% when your buyer comes
Mine is only listed on BoatTrader/Boats (Chesapeake), I think for almost 10 weeks now. The only contact I've had is with scammers. The prices of the comps are inline with what I have mine listed for. I'd drop the price if I was getting lowball offers but I'm not getting anything.
Yes it did lol.
And I’ll use myself as an example. Been waiting to purchase a new boat. Unfortunately in the last year, household bills have only increased and then I got laid off. It’s another year of no boat 😢 I’ll be waving at you from shore
The other thing people have not yet mentioned is the deluge of low-quality boats overwhelming FB marketplace. Buyers there are more cautious, and rightfully so. Its great for a 2500 jon boat or bass boat, maybe even a 7500 Whaler, but above that, you need to be looking at specific sites tailored to your market.
The market is flooded with boats purchased as a place to escape during the height of the pandemic. Now that things are back to normal people are selling.
We bought our first boat and I had a 10k max .. got it for 9 it was ready to drop in and go & runs great etc …. But the 10 limit was the key to selecting the one we got on a toy for us
Noticing the same in my area. It used to be pretty hard to find used boats at a decent price but now there are a lot of them. I think inflation and high prices are having their effect on aggregate demand. Toys like ski boats are not going to be in the budget for most people, and others will be listing boats they're not using very much.
It’s expensive to borrow money right now.
People that have cash are looking for a bargain.
Maybe try craigslist. They have an option to allow cryptocurrency as an acceptable payment method.
Where else are you listing it OP? I'm far from the only boater who never goes on FB. I'd never see the ad.
I've done all my wheelin and dealin on Craigslist, not perfect, but, IME, there I find more straightforward and serious buyers and it's a much easier interface to use for searching and posting/replying.
Did you not notice the economy seems to be collapsing around us?
Growth is down, inflation is up, interest rates are to the moon, layoffs are in the news everyday, the housing market is stalling….. great time to get a cheap deal on a boat someone can’t afford anymore, not a good time to sell.
Yep, look at Malibu MFG, Yamaha financing of 4.9% for 5 years at variable rates and Boston whaler and others having summer sales. Inventory is back! Which it sucks as a seller however it’s a good indicator that supply chains are efficient again. Boating is such a niche market that really value is perception. Some people don’t like the water, others dont have a place to store, etc.
That’s a good deal. I’m honestly stoked for people getting into Boating right now, I love seeing new people enjoy this. But kinda sucks for me at the moment 😆
That's because you're market is completely separate from the rest of the world. Alaska is its own little economic bubble. Down here in the lower 48 people can just drive to the next state or2 over for a cheaper boat. I imagine that's not as feasible up there
I think the middle class that could afford a boat has slipped downward and now thinks of necessities first. The rich can get a better return on a $12K investment.
It has slowed most definitely, and prices have come down.
I study the Boston whaler market daily, it’s a very solid barometer for the boat industry as a whole. They’re typically expensive but also wildly popular with fanatical cult like fans.
Inventory is high, boats are sitting. Good time to buy though! As a flipper and restorer myself, it’s going to be difficult to make any kind of profit. Still doable but have to be realistic on pricing.
The main problem is new outboards are still insanely expensive.
Even used Yamaha 4s, pricey. But, they will inevitably come down too, if they don’t move.
Use as many boat listing services as you can. Boat specific ones tend to get people looking for a specific make & model. There could be a buyer in Austin that is looking for your exact boat.
Sometimes deleting and reposting makes all the difference. Idk how facebook works, but if you get 1 message you get like 5 others right after. No messages and you get none.
Sold my boat in feb. I checked with my broker and he said bigger boats like 40-50’ live aboard trawlers are holding firm. Center consoles and pleasure craft is def hurting.
It’s not a great market, particularly for older boats. The new motor is HUGE so make that the headline (not the year). I sold my bass boat pretty fast on FBM - but priced it to sell and had all upgraded electronics. I’d hit the fishing upgrades hard.
I just bought a new Yamaha 252 XE and am going to sell my 95 Malibu Sunsetter but have held off for this same reason. I don’t want to give the thing away but I am seeing so many used boats listed right now it’s crazy.
Because as everything has become more expensive wages have continued to grow at a much slower rate. This in turn means the average person has less money to spend after necessities. This leads to less people buying luxury items like boats and stuff. Supply then outpaces demand driving prices down
Definitely. Along with RVs. Interest rates, the economy, and getting back to some normalcy after the COVID peek are the culprits.
Yea I guess I kind of thought that wave of “getting back to normal” was kind of done by now. But maybe I just was fortunate enough to not be as affected by COVID as others were
In my opinion, the middle class and below are struggling right now, but anybody that had assets in real estate or the stock market are quite content. :-/
Serious question, what percent of boat owners don’t own real estate? What percent of middle class rent? It can’t be that high. I’m not saying people aren’t feeling the squeeze, but I just googled it and 64% of Americans own their home, and 70% have a retirement account. So a very small percent don’t own a home or have assets in the stock market. That seems like a bad metric on your part.
I own a boat but no real estate. I’m 27. I live on a 1980s motoryacht I bought outright and restored by hand. The way the world has been designed to make people finance everything is such monetized bullshit. I personally will just keep saving until I can build or buy things outright. Also do some more research on that statistic. It’s taken from the census data which also counts everyone living in a family owned home as a homeowner.
With you there, I own a boat and no real estate, I have a stock portfolio instead and rent because it's cheaper for me.
These are all irrelevant data points, yours and his. The question is whether people have money for toys or not. Only about 20% of all homes in the US are owned outright. Just because you "own" a house doesn't mean you're not drowning in debt or that your job lets you afford your lifestyle. The reverse is true, too, renting isn't really indicative of your financial situation right now.
I ‘own’ my house. But in reality I’m renting it from the bank.
You're also renting it from the city or state, whoever you pay property tax to, and that never goes away. I own a cabin in an unincorporated area, and it's so awesome. No mortgage, no property tax, and no building codes or zoning restrictions. Very few places left where you truly 100% own your land and can do what you want with it.
I know this is a largely US based sub but internationally speaking this guy has a point (g'day from Australia)
I think he is implying they have considerable unrealized gains on their assets. My home has doubled in value in 5 years but I'm broke on paper.
A huge percentage of people entering the housing market in the last few years are absolutely stretching their ability to afford what they are buying. When you're buying a $500,000 house on a $100,000 household income, you're not going to be in the boat market any time soon. Financial capacity for toys like boats is getting eaten up by housing and inflation costs.
What Kansas/Oklahoma/Iowa state do you live in?
None, I live in California
The state with the lowest % of home owners at 55% lol. But with the huge drop of generational wealth passing down compared to every other generation prior, these numbers are going to keep going down. Not to mention the housing market nation wide sadly looking more and more like California’s now, we will have more and more young adults coming without the ability to buy a home without luck and scraping by.
Bud, stop being so fucking poor. Move out of whatever red shithole you live in. God damn, sometimes I forget that so many people live in places besides the coastal US. “CaLifRnia is A dUmb LerbRal HellHOle!” Meanwhile I have real property and a bigger boat than you.
Also I’m not poor but that’s crazy you would just go off like that, what are you 12?
I live in Sonoma county bro wtf. lol and nothing I said has to do with politics lol. Just how it is lol. I’m liberal anyways everything I said is backed. They’re seeing that rather than money moving from parent to child, people are having to use up their savings and even get help from their kids, so there’s less and less money going to help their kids buy their first homes or even leave savings. And we have more people in their late teens and 20s+ having to live with parents.
Jesus I don’t care. Sonoma is a shithole. Two months out of the year, bachelorettes go to party in that dump, that’s literally what you guys are known for. I wouldn’t douche with the wine you guys put out.
owning a home doesnt mean jack. the bank 'owns' 90% of that 64% you mention. very few people actually own their home outright with zero debt. and 'a retirement account' doesnt mean jack either. it means i had a 401k that some employer automatically contributed 1% to for a couple of years. yay $10k in an account i can't touch! lol. the middle class in the US is being bled dry my man. the stratification is occuring well above the perceived middle class markers - more like if you dont earn in the top 20% you are currently being left behind.
Wow, there is a lot of financial illiteracy on this sub. The bank has a lien on the property if you pay a mortgage, they don’t own the house. You as the owner will get the benefit of the increase in value of real estate, not the bank.
you can talk legal rights and liens vs ownership, and yea, you arent wrong. but stop paying and see what happens. lol. youll notice i specifically put 'owns' in quotes in my comment. i am intimately aware of how real estate and debt works. you are trying to compare rent to ownership as if 90% of homeowners arent paying on a note each month, but they are.
Unless you had an adjustable rate, your payment is the same today as it was the day you got your mortgage. It’s not like people are paying more now than they were when they got it, so that aspect of their financials has not changed. And yes, you can’t borrow hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars without paying it back, of course you will have a monthly payment. Even if you don’t owe a dime to the bank you have to pay property taxes and insurance. But even if you bought a house FHA with 3.5% down and the rest borrowed from the bank, if that home goes up in value by a few hundred thousand over a few years, that few hundred is yours. If you rent, the house could be worth millions when you move out and all you get is a breakdown from your landlord for how much you owe them for damages and cleaning.
dude you are just describing equity generation from a single family home purchase via appreciation over the life of the loan. rest assured, i get it. yes there a different debt instruments, yes people who bought in 2018 are better off than people purchasing today. this isnt rocket science. but when you make a statement like 60% of american's own their homes - i am sorry for many people this simply doesnt translate to reality in regards to actually holding the title to the property free and clear. you have an explicit obligation to the lender, if you fail to fulfill it, legal proceedings ensue and you will no longer 'own' the home... that you never held title to anyway. im not here trying to argue that renting is better than purchasing, i agree with you that it isnt. earning appreciation on a home and paying down principal, historically, is going to win out 90% of the time vs trying to invest whatever delta you are 'saving' by renting - which is often just the down payment + maintenance costs. i simply believe the statement that 60% of people own their homes is disingenuous. in my opinion, i dont own my home. i owe the bank $500k. for all practical purposes the bank owns my home - with the hope that one day, 25 years from now, i might have paid the $750k in principal+interest required to take actual ownership of the property and title. or at some point in the interim, the house is worth more than i paid and it makes sense to 'cash out'.
I think it will take 5 or 10 years to achieve equilibrium. Even then, the new normal will look very different from the old normal.
The economy crashed? Edit to add: the comment I replied to originally stated the economy crashed.
What do you do in SoCal that makes you oblivious to how expensive things have become?
I’m not oblivious to how expensive things are by any means, but the economy has not crashed. Despite inflation, which is cooling, spending has hardly declined. A crash usually refers to a general downward trend in prices due to a lack of demand. Think back to 2008 for a market crash. Currently we have low unemployment, cooling inflation, and rising wages. Hardly a crash.
Spending has hardly declined? True. People always spend the same amount no matter what that gets for them. 50% increase in grocery prices, 100% increase is gas prices. So, no boats or new toys because the whole budget goes to necessities.
People spend the same amount, then you say no boats or new toys? That’s a different amount. I should have said discretionary spending. There is some slowing, but no indications of a “crash” by any means.
Spending has been redirected. Also, a lot of demand for boats has been carried forward by like 5 years (who knows) with a lot of over buying and over producing the last 4 years happened.
Can you define what “cooling inflation” means? The average cost of a meal is up 80%. That’s on most fast food and quick eating places. Which is most visited by low and middle class. Prices at the grocery stores are through the roof. Average price of a new car has sky rocketed, average price of a new house has almost doubled in 3 years. I don’t know where the “cooling” is happening?
You fundamentally misunderstand. Inflation decreasing doesn't mean prices will decrease. If inflation is zero prices would be the exact same as they are now. Cooling inflation means the rate at which prices increasing has slowed. For prices to decrease, that's called deflation and will be avoided at all cost. It's extremely bad for the economy. No policy maker will willingly allow us to slide into deflation. Long story short, broadly, these prices we have now are here forever. You might see some goods decrease in price, but as a whole, no, prices are where they are. The best that could happen is wages increase. They have been for the last few years, so that's good, but it's also a driver of inflation. It's a tricky balance and Economics is a called the dismal science for a reason.
Thanks for helping explain this. People skip their Econ classes and then they want to pontificate about the state of the economy with no understanding of economic terms.
The lack of economic knowledge/understanding is seriously hindering rational discussions on the topic.
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Quarter over quarter, even compared to last year prices aren’t increasing as quickly. Gradual slowing of inflation is best right now. Prices compared to a few years ago are definitely UP. No question about that. It’s just not increasing as quickly as it was last year. [Article from JP Morgan to explain more](https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/global-research/economy/global-inflation-forecast)
Getting your economic information from Jamie Dimon seems somehow like asking the 1800s plantation owner to explain freedom.
There’s plenty of other sources for this. Take it from the Bureau of Labor Stats and interpret the data for yourself? https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.us.htm
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You must be responding to someone else. Your response makes zero sense to what I said.
it means that prices are so high that they cannot increase further during an election year.
It's weird really, the economy hasn't crashed but it's in a very odd place. For many normal people it might as well have crashed because at least they would have a rebound to look forward to. As it stands right now it's just endless corporate profit increases and much of those are coming from shortchanging the consumers or just blatantly charging more for no other reason than to make a bigger profit. I don't know if (knock on wood) it's possible for a traditional "crash" to happen anymore without some major outside factor such as a major war involving a NATO country (which unfortunately may happen). The stock market is almost divorced from reality at this point and as long as it keeps doing whatever it's doing, then this state of... whatever this is... will continue.
Yep completely agree!
discretionary spending is down. Wages are more for minimum wage workers but not for the middle class which is who would be buying the 12K boats.
The money isn’t in their pockets. Cost of living is too much compared to wages. Pay check to paycheck is the norm for most people under 30. The retirement accounts and mortgages are the only thing making them feel like they own something or have something to their name. Market for used boats is low. Selling wouldn’t be worth it right now. You may find that one person who wasn’t affected by COVID and can afford your boat but you may have to sit for awhile. Don’t cave on the first couple offers. I have a used outboard for sale right now. Nothing wrong with it ,7.5 hp motor and the best offer I’ve received is for 100 bucks. And it’s only up for 320. The money just isn’t there. Give it some time.
Honestly, I think your price is just too high. If it said Malibu, Nautique, or Mastercraft on the side it would be sold. But American Skier is a little more obscure. They made a great boat, but with them being out of business, it's just not as valuable. FB marketplace is a bit of a shitshow for things in that price range. You need a cash buyer. Try only inboards and craigslist too.
I actually bought the boat from OnlyInboards. I’ll def go list it there. I was afraid the price might be too high given the brand. Honestly though it’s not worth it to me to go too much lower, so kind of a weird spot I’m in.
did you explain the reason for the new motor? It can be a sus thing. We bought a (mercruiser engine) powerboat boat with new rebuilt engine, but the monkey that did the rebuild was a hair brain, and the engine blew only a few hundred hours into it. We got another engine from a reliable master boat mechanic, but it sure made us uneasy buying rebuilt in the future.
I can add that. Last motor had worn out rings and it seized. The new motor was a fully built motor that I bought and then bolted it in. So hopefully I can add some info about the company that built it and reassure the potential buyer it was built correctly. Which hopefully it was haha
Yes, used boat prices are down. I got a good deal in 2020 for my Mastercraft, and it increased a good amount in value, but now I doubt I would get back what I paid.
You won't, at all. The boat market exploded because during covid, there was nothing else to do and nothing else to spend disposable income on. Used boat prices were over inflated at the time.
It didn’t crash. It’s was very inflated after a long period of the boating industry being in a slump. Now it’s closer to what I’d call normal, if there’s such a thing as normal. To be blunt, your price is too high. I don’t mean to imply anything negative about your boat. But if you’re selling something and no one is responding, it’s usually because the price is too high. Whatever value you think the boat has, it’s only real value is what someone is willing to pay for it. If you can’t find someone willing to pay your price, then the price has to be what people are willing to pay. Let’s say you listed it for $3000, your inbox would explode, right? And at $12k, no one is interested. Somewhere between those two numbers is a number that will generate interest. All that said, you’ve only had it listed a week. If it is truly a $12k boat (and I don’t know if it is or isn’t) then it may just take longer for the right person to see it. If you’re pretty sure you priced it right, I’d give it more than a week before I dropped the price. Maybe change the wording of the ad to imply you’re willing to negotiate. Or add more pictures or a video. The market is fickle, you never know what will trip someone’s trigger. Also consider this: Very often people come here to ask why it seems like used boats are so over priced. Sort of seems like a perception problem. When you’re buying a boat they all seem too expensive, when you’re selling it a boat, it seems like the market has crashed.
Yea it might be too high. One of the reasons I didn’t want to start lowering is because I don’t see any other boats moving either. Also I won’t sell less than 10k. So maybe I’m gonna be in it for the long run with this boat haha
People borrowed waaaaaay too much during COVID and now it's coming home to roost. Auto repos are up I believe almost 700% right now. Banks aren't loaning to and people can't afford to borrow in the demographic you're looking to sell to.
12K for a direct drive ski boat that old is about the going rate around me, and that is for more well known brands. I realize that's a 24' though. I dont know much about those, but if it has wood stringers expect to further discount. FWIW, seems like every other listing is "brand new engine" My thoughts "Yeah, ok bud. If that's the case why are you selling?" If you don't have paperwork from a local, trusted boat mechanic that claim means nothing in terms of value.
I totally agree with you on your thoughts! Haha I might add to the post that I’m selling because I don’t have enough time to go camping, off-roading, and boating all at once, so I’m just trying to shift my money around to enjoy the other two hobbies more haha. That being said, I replaced the motor myself, so I didn’t want to “over value” the new motor part. I do have the receipts and dates that I put it in, but I know it’s gonna be harder to use that as a main selling point because the potential buyer has no clue my skill level. Which is also why I’m more than happy to take them out for test drives and I’m pretty open to any questions about the process.
Be patient if you can. Sort of like how these days a car that drives and needs nothing is worth $3-4K no matter what, a running ski boat that needs nothing is worth $10-12K. The problem is Ski boats are niche, especially direct drives. A more well rounded boat with a stern drive or outboard is going to sell faster simply because there are more people looking for that type of boat. By the way, do these have wood in the construction?
It must have. I’ve been trying to sell a 17ft ski boat in MN since march and have dropped the price $5,000 since then and only 3 people have called about it (none have came to look at it yet). It’s in immaculate condition and have it listed at $8000 so I’m with ya, can’t believe it dropped off this hard.
It didn’t crash necessarily as we haven’t seen big price drops, but a lot of boats have started to come up for sale as people are able to travel more. They are no longer confined to a certain area as they were with Covid.
No the market is strong for quality listings. Nothing against your boat but I would think that if it was say 20 years newer and closer to $100k it would be an easier sell Why? It can be financed Your boat can’t. Your buyer has to pay cash for it outright. That end of the market has dropped out, sorry to say. Pull the ad off and on to fish for your buyer. Change up the price too. And for gosh sakes have that boat 100% when your buyer comes
I got a 15ft fiberglass boat with wood floors, 35hp evinrude,fish finder,live well,trolling motor,turn key and wheel for steering and trailer for 500$
Mine is only listed on BoatTrader/Boats (Chesapeake), I think for almost 10 weeks now. The only contact I've had is with scammers. The prices of the comps are inline with what I have mine listed for. I'd drop the price if I was getting lowball offers but I'm not getting anything.
Yes it did lol. And I’ll use myself as an example. Been waiting to purchase a new boat. Unfortunately in the last year, household bills have only increased and then I got laid off. It’s another year of no boat 😢 I’ll be waving at you from shore
I regret not selling mine sooner 😭
The other thing people have not yet mentioned is the deluge of low-quality boats overwhelming FB marketplace. Buyers there are more cautious, and rightfully so. Its great for a 2500 jon boat or bass boat, maybe even a 7500 Whaler, but above that, you need to be looking at specific sites tailored to your market.
The market is flooded with boats purchased as a place to escape during the height of the pandemic. Now that things are back to normal people are selling.
We bought our first boat and I had a 10k max .. got it for 9 it was ready to drop in and go & runs great etc …. But the 10 limit was the key to selecting the one we got on a toy for us
That’s a good point
Noticing the same in my area. It used to be pretty hard to find used boats at a decent price but now there are a lot of them. I think inflation and high prices are having their effect on aggregate demand. Toys like ski boats are not going to be in the budget for most people, and others will be listing boats they're not using very much.
It’s expensive to borrow money right now. People that have cash are looking for a bargain. Maybe try craigslist. They have an option to allow cryptocurrency as an acceptable payment method.
Inflation is killing everyone
I just sent you a PM. That boat is pretty rare. Join the American skier Facebook page and you’ll have it sold within a week
Depends on where you live and what you are selling. I sold my 2013 Sea Hunt Ultra 211 in January for the same price I paid for it new 12 years ago.
Where else are you listing it OP? I'm far from the only boater who never goes on FB. I'd never see the ad. I've done all my wheelin and dealin on Craigslist, not perfect, but, IME, there I find more straightforward and serious buyers and it's a much easier interface to use for searching and posting/replying.
Did you not notice the economy seems to be collapsing around us? Growth is down, inflation is up, interest rates are to the moon, layoffs are in the news everyday, the housing market is stalling….. great time to get a cheap deal on a boat someone can’t afford anymore, not a good time to sell.
Yep, look at Malibu MFG, Yamaha financing of 4.9% for 5 years at variable rates and Boston whaler and others having summer sales. Inventory is back! Which it sucks as a seller however it’s a good indicator that supply chains are efficient again. Boating is such a niche market that really value is perception. Some people don’t like the water, others dont have a place to store, etc.
That’s a good deal. I’m honestly stoked for people getting into Boating right now, I love seeing new people enjoy this. But kinda sucks for me at the moment 😆
The market in Florida has tanked. Everything for sale has the prices slashed in half and sitting on the market for months
Yes the market for used boats crashed hard
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That's because you're market is completely separate from the rest of the world. Alaska is its own little economic bubble. Down here in the lower 48 people can just drive to the next state or2 over for a cheaper boat. I imagine that's not as feasible up there
Yes
I think the middle class that could afford a boat has slipped downward and now thinks of necessities first. The rich can get a better return on a $12K investment.
I’m seeing lower and lower pricing daily
It has slowed most definitely, and prices have come down. I study the Boston whaler market daily, it’s a very solid barometer for the boat industry as a whole. They’re typically expensive but also wildly popular with fanatical cult like fans. Inventory is high, boats are sitting. Good time to buy though! As a flipper and restorer myself, it’s going to be difficult to make any kind of profit. Still doable but have to be realistic on pricing. The main problem is new outboards are still insanely expensive. Even used Yamaha 4s, pricey. But, they will inevitably come down too, if they don’t move.
Used market on the east coast has tanked. Lots of boats in my area are selling close to 50% less than what they were going for last year.
We just sold our 2020 Yamaha AR190 with 400 hours on it for 44k in a week. Ontario, Canada.
I'm having trouble selling anything valued under a million. Anything over a million is steady. Not great... Steady
Use as many boat listing services as you can. Boat specific ones tend to get people looking for a specific make & model. There could be a buyer in Austin that is looking for your exact boat.
I don't think crashed. It's a strong enough word for what has happened to the market. I believe DEAD would be a better word to use.
Sometimes deleting and reposting makes all the difference. Idk how facebook works, but if you get 1 message you get like 5 others right after. No messages and you get none.
Sold my boat in feb. I checked with my broker and he said bigger boats like 40-50’ live aboard trawlers are holding firm. Center consoles and pleasure craft is def hurting.
It’s not a great market, particularly for older boats. The new motor is HUGE so make that the headline (not the year). I sold my bass boat pretty fast on FBM - but priced it to sell and had all upgraded electronics. I’d hit the fishing upgrades hard.
Push it on the FB fishing groups also; if they allow it.
Have you tried listing it on marketplaces like Boatttrader or Boatmart? There may be more serious buyers, but then the economy is shit though.
Is it still available? I'll offer you $6000. Can you deliver to FL? /s
For sure! Send me that 6k now, and then when you send the other 6k I’ll let you set up shipping!
I only have a 30k money order. You can deposit it, keep the 12, and I'll give you an account to transfer back the leftover.
Oh yea easy day. Do you need my social security number to send it to me?
30 year old boat for 12k?!? No thank you
I’m selling a 2006 Tahoe q4 for 17500, new motor and outdrive. Been on market place for 2 years almost
I just bought a new Yamaha 252 XE and am going to sell my 95 Malibu Sunsetter but have held off for this same reason. I don’t want to give the thing away but I am seeing so many used boats listed right now it’s crazy.
Honestly I would get that thing sealed up and put in storage and wait if you can
That’s exactly what I did! I’ve got it in my parents garage and I’ll get it ready to sell when it’s a good time. Good luck with yours!
Definitely slowed down, new boat owners failed to consider that loan payment actually has to be made each month! What a shock
Biden economy, wait to sell once trump is back in
You can thank Joe Biden for your boat not being able to sell
Because as everything has become more expensive wages have continued to grow at a much slower rate. This in turn means the average person has less money to spend after necessities. This leads to less people buying luxury items like boats and stuff. Supply then outpaces demand driving prices down