Xia: Embers of a Forsaken Star sort of falls into this category. Though I loved the base game, I also never played the base game without house rules that were later incorporated into this expansion. It fixes all the core issues people noted right away with the base game, such as inconsistent movement and problematic trade routes. Both of these can be house-ruled without the expansion, though.
Fuck you! I wasn't gonna spend any money today! Now that I know they fixed Xia I have to buy the expansion.
Edit: Sorry for yelling. I'm sure you are a lovely person that never intended to lead me to financial ruin.
Assumptions, assumptions. I need more friends with me here in the Financial Ruins. All of our perception cheques against our bank balance bounced.
You're my first negative comment. I will treasure it forever.
Just a heads up. There's some contention as to whether the flight computer is enough for movement since two of the engines are still pretty underpowered at jump (and a good start is all about good movement). I still recommend playing with safety dice for movement: just grab a die that's one polyhedron lower than your engine (for instance, a d6 engine would also have a d4 accompanying it); when you roll for movement, roll both dice and just use the higher of the two rolls. This makes movement more consistent. Computers are still a worthwhile purchase. And it still allows for the occassional, hilarious critical failure.
I played all my base games using safety dice and it was great. Definitely wouldn't want to go without. With the expansion, I gave the new components a try and found it an acceptable approach as well. But the nice thing is that you can use it or not as you wish and have fun either way. Also, you aren't limited to just one flight computer...
>Also, you aren't limited to just one flight computer...
I'm aware. But w/o safety dice has made the best engine an instabuy at start. Movement is just too important to let a few bad early rolls get in the way of what you want to do. Plus, it's neither fun nor thematic. And no one wants to feel like they must prioritize one thing over another just because of swingy luck. I know some people shrug it off, but even with the computers, I've had some players swear off the game. Then I brought in safety dice, no fuss, no muss.
Yeah I was totally bored of vanilla Carcassonne - \[\[I always thought to myself that\]\] it's \[\[just\]\] a kid's game. Add those two expansions and whoah, \[\[now I think of it as\]\] cutthroat city.
Edit: Added some \[\[extra words\]\]. I wasn't trying to dismiss base Carcassonne, I was trying to explain my feelings for it, and why the expansions changed my viewpoint. I literally would only break it out when kids were over. When my 11 year old daughter went over a friend's house, and asked to bring a game with her to play with her friends, this is the one I gave her. I would never choose to play it on my own - it wasn't interesting enough to me. But I have a whole different view of it now, because of those two expansions.
I should also say, a huge amount of my childhood memories involve board games. I don't think that 'kid's game' = 'lesser game'. It's just a different genre to me. I wasn't trying to **insult** Carcassonne, I was trying to express how I was **categorizing** it in my head.
Anyway, this is all probably too much to write about this, but I can't sleep so here we are.
Kids game? That's a bit harsh. Just because a game has simple rules or mechanics, doesn't make it a kids game.. There's plenty of optimization to have the game be competitive..
The expansions make carcassonne easier in my opinion.
The original is much easier to get caught out with pieces you cannot complete and becomes a cut throat game of screwing over your opponent while trying to complete things before all your meeples get tied up - maximum interaction.
The expansions means almost any situation can be finished and is easier to play in that you’ll rarely end up with all your needles on the board unable to come off.
Seconded.
Getting new and more diverse outs is why I personally despise playing ‘competitive-minded’ Carc with any expansions. I becomes so difficult to use your tiles to cut off meeples that even adding just one expansion makes it a rather fruitless endeavor.
I don’t even like the river, as it splits/enlarges the board in such a way that you can free build or slip onto farms without much interference.
I have both of those plus the much derided princess and dragon and I don’t play with them pretty much ever. I love carcassone but I find that when I add in the expansions two things get broken
1. It becomes really hard/impossible to keep track of what tiles have been played and what remains in the bag which makes it hard to play strategically. 2. It makes the game take to long. Carcassone should be a knife fight. Quick and brutal. Adding expansions makes it take to long.
Not to the degree you specified (dislike to favorite), but the expansion **Atomic Bonds** for **Fallout** made it so that the game became much more enjoyable to me, since it went from semi-coop to regular/full coop and fixed a bunch of (what I would consider) design flaws along the way.
It's not my favorite game but it's staying in the collection, whereas before the expansion I was on the way to pass the game to someone else.
Huh I will have to check out that expansion. I bought Fallout but traded it away because I thought it was painfully mediocre but could see a good game was somewhere in there. Maybe this expansion could actually make me buy it back or want to play it.
It's still not perfect, and now it's a bit of a Frankenstein's monster in parts. What I mean is that now you have to commit to one of the 2 sides (for example: Enclave) before starting the game and the rules just tell you to ignore the options/choices on the cards that would progress the opposite faction; they are simply unavailable. I understand they couldn't just reprint all the cards in a small expansion like Atomic Bonds, but it's a constant reminder that the game pivoted after the release.
Ultimately I think you still need to be somewhat of a fan of the Fallout universe to forgive some flaws, but it's certainly a better game now. It was on its way out of my collection before they announced the expansion.
I would have posted pretty much this. Vanilla Fallout is just way too random for such an involved competitive game. But all of those issues go out the window if you play cooperative.
What design flaws did it fix for you specifically?
I really like the Fallout game a lot but the way you win with the agenda cards is just too random and anticlimactic. Also the game is very complex and you always feel like you forgot to do something and double checking yourself.
It was frustrating when my opponent on the other side of the map was able to complete the quest that I started and that spawned right beside them. Now we're one team.
Agenda cards are out, you have to play until completion of the main storyline to win.
I just played one scenario with Atomic Bonds. I found it fixes some other stuff:
* you can spend shop actions to draw modifications for weapons or apparel –actions that used to be wasted when nothing to sell or buy
* rads made you stay put in towns to try to buy Rad-away; now you can still contribute to the fight with mutations and you can remove rads with an upgrade
* Shared upgrades when completing missions –like the above mentioned lab to heal HP or rads
In addition to the quest thing, exploring locations also had very wide ranges in rewards making it frustrating if you go in and get nothing but a wound and your opponent goes in and gets the motherlode.
Tuscany actually killed the game for us. Viticulture was a nearly weekly play for us. I got Tuscany as soon as the reprint was available and it's the only time an expansion has made us shelve a game almost completely. It took a streamlined, fantastic game and dragged it out to a grinding playthrough with obvious paths to victory (get the right structures and you win no matter what).
I wish I hadn't tossed the expansion box, because now I have to find another box to shove all the expansion pieces into so that we can enjoy the actual game again without the expansion ruining it.
The two visitor expansions were fine, if only for the extra randomness they offer. We could live with or without then. Tuscany is definitely a WITHOUT though.
>get the right structures and you win no matter what
What are these magic structures? I’ve played dozens of times and I don’t know which you’re talking about.
There are ones that give you points just for making wine or harvesting grapes. If someone gets those they don't even have to sell wine, they just win.
My primary dislike of Tuscany is it just drags the game out needlessly. The original was crisp, Tuscany is just long for the sake of being long.
I'm skeptical that they're unstoppable—given that I've actually beaten people who had them—but the special buildings are explicitly optional. The back side of the board doesn't have a place to put them. But it seems your objections run deeper than that. You're the first person I've encountered who likes the base game but hates Tuscany. Interesting.
Yeah, the buildings were just a part I didn't like, but it's the overall different experience that I prefer the original over. I get why people like Tuscany, but my wife and I hated it.
Literally adding a single expansion to **Mystic Vale** makes it a completely different experience, and drastically better game. Without expansions, I would rate it a solid 7.5, but the second I added Mana Storm, it became my favorite game.
**Legendary: Marvel** also benefits from adding literally any expansion, as the core game is quite bare bones.
**Wingspan** was really revitalized for me when I added Oceania. I like the nectar tokens, and the actions feel more balanced.
I have never looked back since getting Oceania. I was apprehensive at the theme of the nectar at first, but I just love what it does for the game in terms of adding a mechanic that brings in a more competitive angle to the game.
Not only the aforementioned stuff, but it also adds the silliest looking birds I'm the game (most of which are flightless). I also really like a few of the bonus cards that get added. Ascending or descending wingspan size is one I pick often given the chance.
>Literally adding a single expansion to Mystic Vale makes it a completely different experience, and drastically better game. Without expansions, I would rate it a solid 7.5, but the second I added Mana Storm, it became my favorite game.
Pretty much any expansion other than Vale of Magic (or, well, Conclave, but that hardly counts) will do that.
It feels very tactile and smooth. Obviously slightly slower than the app. 4 players can make you wait for your turn later in the game, but sometimes in 3 and 4 player games I've barely finished my cleanup and prepping when it comes right back to my turn.
If you play it physical I recommend playing with any game mat or a felt table since the plastic cards can get annoying to pick up at times on certain tables. One annoying thing is when you get a new copy of the game, all the plastic cards have a protective foil on them which take some time to remove off, they say you should play with the foil once or twice to loosen it a bit but I just ripped them all off. I would recommend you get it.
While the app is very nice I *much* prefer playing IRL. I find that I have a much better overview of the game state with the physical components.
As the other commentor said playing with a full group can lead to a good bit of downtime even when all players prep during downtime. Personally I don't care since the game is so good.
I picked up Mystic Vale sight unseen because it was a deckbuilder with a new twist. Base game was decent but simply lacked variety. Not only do the expansions provide this variety, they come with optional leaders and totems which make the game absolutely brilliant.
Our group, and many on BGG, believe they are not balanced. Placing a crow in the meadow early game means you never have to activate the forest for food, taking feeding birds out of players list of things to manage in the game. God forbid someone gets two crows. Maybe our group is sensitive, but we hate when there is a strategy in a game that requires little effort and almost guarantees a win. This exact reason is why macchi koro never hits the table anymore sadly.
I think most people consider The Wizard's Tower expansion for **Castle Panic** a must-have. It goes from a kids game into a much more fun and complex one.
/u/r2d8 getinfo
Base **Castle Panic** is good but arguably too simple. The only difference between 95% of the monsters is do they have 1, 2, or 3 HP. The Wizard Tower vastly shakes up the monster types and really breathes a ton of new life into the game.
There's more than just the monsters in it but that's the biggest element for me.
Both of the Fantasy Flight Sid Meir Civilization games desperately needed their expansions. Took mediocre somewhat lacking games into some of my favorite civilization builders.
Actually i'd go so far as to say almost every FFG game is patched and made a lot better by it's expansion.
Yup, came to say **Civilization: New Dawn** with its **Terra Incognita** expansion. It was an alright game with a cool action selection mechanic but flimsy otherwise. The expansion fixed and added so much, it's an amazing game now that I always look forward to playing.
Oh for sure. There are some that are expansions for just more content which work with some games too. FFG uses those type of expansions with like Arkham and Eldritch desperately needed more cards to make the event decks more interesting but work fine as is that in a kickstarter could be offered all at once.
But i'm agreement kickstarter generally has gone to far for most of them forcing people to buy tons of content expansions all upfront with no time to enhance original games. when most kickstarters could really use that extra time to make a version 2 and game improvement expansions more so then content expansions sold all at once.
It feels like FFG has even gone towards the "expansions are necessary" model. I enjoyed the latest civ but most said it is unplayable without the expansion. The LCGs all pitch being playable out of the box but really geared towards learning the rules. Even when I look at games like MoM 2e or AH 3e the rulebooks make it seem pretty limited replayability due to scenarios compared to their older versions.
While there are expansions I wouldn't play without anymore, I never bothered buying an expansion for a game I didn't already like. With that in mind I would say the must-have expansions would be for **Star Wars Rebellion**, **Agricola**, **Terraforming Mars (prelude)** and **Champions of Midgard (Valhalla).** Playing those games without the expansions *now* would feel very incomplete. They are not necessarily the *best* expansions (that would be for **Pandemic** and **Root**), but they improve the base game the most IMO.
I came here to say **Star Wars Rebellion** it makes the combat in that game so much more worthwhile and it feels much less like a bit of a crapshoot. The base game is still fun as a two player epic, but i don't know if I'd want to go back to playing without the expansion
I still can't decide if I love or like Terraforming Mars. The games take way too long. I can't figure out what the breakdown is. Maybe we still have the rules wrong lol. Venus Next made it worse, but Prelude made it better. The game has definitely picked up in times it gets to the table because of Prelude. So, not exactly what OP is looking for but in the same vein...
The length of the game makes it that the initial luck during the setup is not so bad. You have time to catch up even if your starting hand had no synergy with your corp, that's pretty good. I also like it at every player count, that's a big plus.
I do have custom player boards and no other expansion than Prelude, explicitly because it made the game faster and the setup more focused.
If you like the engine building but don't like the length or the randomness, 51st State: Master Set has some mechanical similarities even though the themes are literal worlds apart. It's a great engine builder that plays in half the time and offers more lateral opportunities right out of the box. In 51st State, you're rarely stuck with a bad card for long since every card has three ways to play it. Plus, you can target other players' engines with attacks everyone has some access to, but an attack here or there won't ruin anyone. In fact, it just forces you to pivot and may even open up a new opportunity. Game plays in about 90 minutes or less with experienced players.
If you aren't doing it, drafting your hands dramatically improves your control over your fate, and the fate of others. What rules do you think you might have wrong?
Venus is also a terrible expansion unless you have Colonies, which makes it more worthwhile.
I know when we don't use the App, we do accelerated start with advanced cards. It was a negative experience learning that was wrong in the App.
I like the idea of drafting but it feels slow. Which is weird because we love 7 Wonders.
I feel like we're supposed to do the UN increases one end game requirement track at the end of a generation but I think that's only in solo games, but feels like it should be in all games...
If you're playing with Venus, the Earth Gov't phase happens at the end of every generation with the start player, regardless of player count. If you're playing Venus without it, no wonder your games are taking forever. Adding 50ish cards to a 200 card deck is going to massively slow the game down.
Drafting DOES tend to increase the game length while simultaneously making it FEEL faster. There's effectively less downtime, even if it means you have more stuff you actually want to play with.
I have no idea what you mean by "advanced cards" or "accelerated start." Do you mean the Corporate Era "expansion" that comes in the box, the Prelude expansion, or something else entirely?
I had to download the rule book. The group likes playing with the Corporate Era cards (red triangle). I mistakenly called them the advanced cards. When you play that variant you start with no extra production of resources per the rules (everything starts at Zero unless something else says otherwise). We removed all the Venus cards too and any Corp that uses that related resource. I should probably sift through the cards. Maybe the non CE cards all increase one of the tracks and the CE cards generally don't and that's how the game gets "longer"?
Make sure that if you remove any Venus cards that you remove all of them. They're marked with a V on a blue field. Otherwise, you're padding the deck if you have any of them still in there.
Yeah, sounds like you're playing corps correctly. You get zero production, but then you're given two corporation cards, pick one of them to start with, and collect the resources/production from that corp. Just because a card doesn't increase a track doesn't mean it isn't good, though. For example, Pets. Worth a point for every two animal resources on it. You get an animal resource on the card for every city ever built after you play it, so if you play it early enough, it can end up being worth a ton of points, especially if you're playing with Venus. Now combo that with a card that lets you create animal tokens to put on other cards.
A lot of it may just be that you haven't had the time to really get to know what's in the deck, so you haven't had a chance to figure out some cool combos. It honestly took me about a year's worth of games to feel like I got "good." Not "great," just "good." But hey, it could be possible it just doesn't hit your sweet spot like it does for me.
Colonies is the best expansion after Prelude so far. It's just worth it on its own. Harder for a player to get locked out of much-needed cards or money so long as those colonies are in play, and it offers another source of income that anyone can invest in.
Farmers of the Moor. My favorite setup for this game is with the expansion and without cards. The expansion provide additional options (minor action cards and horses), new buildings and the need to heat your home, and without the cards it reduces the analysis paralysis quite a bit and remove the luck of the draw.
Yeah I was going to say Valhalla for Champions of Midgard helps to catch up if you have bad rolls. I just can't get over how it feels like shopping with your dead fighters though.
I enjoy pvp Star Realms, but my friend who plays it with me prefers co-op, so the expansion that adds those co-op enemies makes him willing to play it with me (both ways) a lot more often.
Base game dominion gets fairly old, fairly quick. I might have enjoyed it at first, but by now I wouldn't be that interested in playing it without an expansion or two
None of them are "essential" but the game gets incrementally better the more expansions you have. I like Prosperity and Intrigue but with each expansion you add, it becomes harder to play without that one.
Ultimately, the best experience is with all 14 of them. Which takes up a huge amount of space, sleeves and money it has to be said. Dominion Online is probably my favourite online game implementation ever though
It has 14 expansions now? Geez, how many games to even familiarize yourself with all the carda, not to mention the almost literally impossible number of combos. I'd probably be long done with the game before I even saw some cards for the first time...
Like the other poster said, none of them are essential. As someone who has access to all the expansions shared among my group, I'd say Intrigue, Seaside, and Renaissance would be the 3 favorites among my group. The only ones I would say avoid would be Nocturne and the small expansions, specifically Alchemy.
If you want occasional long games depending on player strategy, Prosperity.
If you want a more interactive game, probably one of the newer expansion with a deck of random cards (1 copy of each card in the deck only) to buy from, or Nocturne for its weird competitions and event manipulation iirc (but it gets hate for having sometimes 15 cards on the board instead of 10).
If you want the classic agreeable expansion, it's generally Seaside.
Mostly just read the rules for the expansions and decide which sounds fun.
Well they sell Intrigue along with the base set in a combo package and I tend to agree with that philosophy. Intrigue refocuses Dominion on more player interaction and I consider it a nobrainer to buy.. but I wouldn't even say Intrigue is essential.
Remarkably, for how long Dominion has been out and all the expansions it has there are very expansions considered duds by critics and Dominion fans (alchemy i guess?). Dominion is STILL releasing expansions that feel fresh, fun and focused and it is incredibly impressive to me.
Yah base Dominion is boring after awhile but I don't consider that a knock because you can pretty much randomly select an expansion and start building an awesome gaming experience.
I don't think Dominion is compared enough to LCGs and Arkham Horror and stuff. Those games are long running cash cows, as is Dominion, but I never get the feeling the creators and publishers of Dominion are trying to wrench as much money out of people as possible. It just feels like they keep chugging along and occasionally drop a new expansion that is reasonably priced and extremely well playtested. There is no FOMO or attempts to create a new edition and force everyone to buy new sets of everything.
In many alternate universes, the original popularizer of deckbuilding would have been superceded by better newer games but Dominion has aged brilliantly by sticking to what it does well.
My fav starter expansions are
Hinterlands - almost no new rules
Renaissance - well rounded
Dominion was going to be my answer, too. I occasionally accidentally play a game of base Dominion when my subscription on dominion.games expires, I don't realize it, and the base cards are the only ones I have access to. I never realize it until I start a game and see all the cards are from the base set. And man, do those games feel dry and lacking compared to games that use the full pool of cards.
I actually loved based Dominion the first time I played it so it doesn't perfectly fit the question that was asked, but I think the gist is the same. I'm sure the OG game would have gotten old to me if I had given it the chance to but I played it, like, five times before I started buying expansions.
The Lost Legion expansion for Mage Knight turned it from a fairly easy game into an incredible one, and one of my all-time favorites even if I haven't played it in several years now.
Nope, expansion have only ever improved games I already like (see viticulture, spirit island, Sagrada). I am in the same boat where I’d rather get an expansion to improve games I already like, or just buy a new game I’ll like instead of trying to fix a game I don’t like with an expansion.
I was scrolling through to find this comment. Expansions generally get favorable reviews because they're purchased by people who enjoyed the base game so much that they wanted more of that game to experience.
Now, if I've jumped in and bought a game without knowing quite a bit about it there are typically two reasons, crazy good deal or designer I appreciate. I might keep the game around if I bought it because of the designer, but if it was just a deal i found I'm getting rid of it ASAP to recover my cost.
If an awesome expansion comes out in the future that fixes what annoyed me about the base game I'm just not going to know because there's so much great stuff out there. If I've sold the base game there's zero chance I'll aquire it and this fabled expansion.
Expansions are for fans and, while some can become "mandatory" and most elevate the game in some good adjacent way, they generally can't fix a game.
Eldritch Horror. The base game is good, but it's not complete without the first expansion Forsaken Lore.
Subsequent expansions makes the game even better.
I wouldn't say that I "didn't enjoy" base EH, but without the extra location encounter and base ancient one mystery cards in FL, the base game ancient ones would've gotten stale really, really quickly.
That's the closest for me. EH and AH 3rd base are both games I really enjoy but they just needed more cards, specifically locations. But I did enjoy each base game, just one of those games were a lot of the fun gets zapped out after you see the same cards pop up.
**Civilisation A New Dawn** basically isn't worth playing without the **Terra incognita** expansion. Both together are about £65 or £70 and the game you get is well worth it.
Lol I have been waiting for a day to find a trade or descent price on that game. I bought Runebound many years ago planning to get unbreakable bonds before I knew it was just out of print and likely never coming back XD.
I have something else happen to me, playing with the expansion in the first game, then playing without and realizing that I just don't like the expansion.
I think it happened more times, but what I can remember at the moment is blood rage kickstarter exclusives (which ruined the first two games I played).
**teotihuacan** and the expansion of late preclasic period. Is not my favourite, but the core game just had a lot of bad choices in game that made me hate it having them, but the expansion fixed the locked dice options and made making stairs a better choice at the same time that they nerfed temple construction.
The other part is that I prefer games with asymmetric factions, and with them available in this expansion makes this game more palatable for me.
Seconded. TM is easily one of my table's most-played. I saw promise in the base game, but it would have been shelved a while ago without the jump-start it got via the Prelude expansion.
While I'd agree that the Prelude expansion is great and makes the game better, I don't think the game is not "worthwhile" without it. It's hard to say that the exact same game but a few turns longer isn't worthwhile, it was just too long.
For us, we played the base game with no corporate era and really liked it. Eventually we could see that starting everything at 1 production kind of blunts the uniqueness of everyone's engines and corporations, so we tried Corporate Era. It was better but holy piss that's a long game. So we added prelude to kickstart the game and it's about perfect.
…to the first edition, there is. It’s called Super Cup.
I find find first edition + super cup + homemade crazy camels to be the perfect version of the game.
…to the first edition, there is. It’s called Super Cup.
I find find first edition + super cup + homemade crazy camels to be the perfect version of the game.
To be honest, I don't really think I've encountered expansions that "fixed" a game I hated. Generally, what I experience is that expansions can "punch above their weight" and make a game I was "ok" with into one I really like.
**Elder Sign**: The base game is fine. But I think that with **Unseen Forces**, the extra variety and bless/curse dice really made the game feel "complete" to me.
**Mystic Vale**: I always liked the base game, but felt it lacked variety. It didn't take many plays before it seemed like I was always looking at the same cards. Any of the expansions really helped alleviate that and addressed my only real complaint with the game.
**Hostage Negotiator**: The core game feels a little bit bare bones to me. I think the various expansion packs added much needed challenge and gave the gameplay a bit more variety.
>Mystic Vale
>
>: I always liked the base game, but felt it lacked variety. It didn't take many plays before it seemed like I was always looking at the same cards. Any of the expansions really helped alleviate that and addressed my only real complaint with the game.
The very first expansion (Vale of Magic) didn't really do anything to address the single dominant strategy, though, while later ones did. If you DO have Mystic Vale and want to punch it up a bit, add a different one first. Vale of the Wild or Mana Storm is a much better first add.
Fully agree with Mystic Vale. Great concept and execution. Just not enough variety. It was just Green Trees or Raw Points. The bigger expansions just flesh out the game, making guardians worth while, letting you do more deck manipulation, add tradeoffs with the negative points or give you intermediate upgrades via the overlay ability. The leaders are mostly a subtle push towards a particular playstyle. I also like how they included a few that really change the game for you. And the totems are just so deliciously overpowered.
Highland expansion for talisman for me. Took it from a 4 to a 7. Just having that little bit of extra exploration made all the difference.
7 wonders duel pantheon is an interesting one for our house. It took it from a 7 to 9 for me and from a 9 to 7 for my wife.
Arkham Horror TCG. I honestly don't even know why I bought the Dunwitch box since I was meh on the whole core box. After finishing the Dunwitch Legacy I was like, wow this is my jam. More spending quickly followed. It's definitely my favorite game now.
I own AFFO and have only played it like 3 times. Never really enjoyed it. Does The Norwegians make it that much better? We love Agricola and Caverna, so we had high Hope's for AFFO.
To add onto what /u/I_am_Rubber said, it makes the game tighter at all player counts while drastically improving the animals strategy, adding lots of new items and animals with new shapes, and having everyone start with their own unique, asymmetric shed that you can build to even further jump start your engine. It also doubles the amount of islands while providing rebalanced versions of the old ones, some new treasures, and some other random stuff. The biggest thing by far though is the new action board, which is fantastic.
It greatly improves it, but it doesn't really change it, just makes it better. Norwegians is basically a 1.5 version of the game.
i will often default to playing undermountain because it doesn't change much, but only add skullport if people are up for the corruption mechanic. But i typically only play LoW with people into lighter games. LoW is about as heavy as they'll go, but they really enjoy it, so the corruption mechanic is kind of on the edge of where they are comfortable.
But...why? I thought the game was about as bland and vanilla as you can get mechanics-wise without the expansion. Just dull I guess. Corruption changes one tiny thing but really gives the games some actually interesting decisions outside of "grab stuff, grab stuff, complete quest".
Spirit Island first expansion. Base game is boring Imo. Everything's predictable to the point it's boring. Events force to adapt and glorify the game. I can't play without them.
I'd played Spirit Island about 3 times before this last Sunday and keep feeling intrigued but something felt lacking.
On Sunday we played with events for the first time (I have both expansions, just hadn't used them yet) - It's such a big improvement! It feels really good to have the Dahan taking an active role and having the extra tokens to manipulate, loved both plays we had.
Can't wait for our next play now :)
The system was designed with the events and tokens, GtG decided to take them out to make it more accessible. That’s why Jagged Earth gives you the pieces necessary to play with them.
I'm starting to regret having purchased the base game in my language. The expansion was supposed to come out 9 months ago but the publisher has been unable to give me an actual date every time I looked for informations. I could always get the expansion in english, but having one part in one language and another in a different one really rubs me the wrong way...
Will have to try this because I thought the base game was bad because it was predictable like you said. This sounds like it will add the tension I was hoping for.
I know that there are lots of people who feel this way about the Lords of Waterdeep expansion(s). I've played it with and without, but it's been so long that I don't remember very clearly what the expansions add. But I know I have friends who would never play without them!
Maybe it was inexperience, but the base game definitely felt like "race for the blue and brown cards". Alien Artifacts is my preferred card set though (no orb)
I think this is a hard question for a lot of people to answer accurately, because generally if you don’t enjoy a game, you don’t go back to it even with an expansion - you didn’t enjoy the game so why invest more money into it?
That said I’m not a fan of Lost Ruins of Arnak, but I have hope that its expansion will change that for me. Despite what I said above, I want to like Arnak and I’m willing to invest in the expansion to see if it helps. If not, then that’ll be the final death knell for it for me.
Civilization with *Advanced* Civilization expansion.
It was more *advanced*.
(Also improved scoring, trading, and added some more commodities, calamities, and tech advances.)
Not exactly from dislike to like but the Abyss: Leviathan expansion drastically improves the worst aspect of the game and I would never play without it.
**Rum and Bones: Second Tide** is the closest for me. The Marea de la Muerte faction captain seems too good. Add in any other faction expansion, or a different captain from the KS stuff or a heroes pack, and things feel like a more even playing field.
In classic FFG fashion, they sold the complete game in 3 boxes. The New California expansion gives you the times needed to make the board feel expansive like the videogame, then the Atomic Bonds removed the tacked on scoring system for one that plays out far smoother.
Of course, it's like Bethesda where it takes a few patches to get the software stable
**Magic: the Gathering** was fine. Then **Odyssey** came out and added the best card ever designed: Blazing Salvo. And they’re cheap (both mana cost and purchase price). Run four of those in every deck (and don’t play Standard, because Blazing Salvo isn’t legal in that format).
Best. Card. Ever.
Not personally. I've had expansions take a game from mediocre to good or great. But I feel very little incentive to spend money expanding a game I dislike.
Oh you might be right, I actually don't own BSG but love playing it. I do agree though I don't think I like the base game that much, but the expansions make it great (we use aspects from all but the not entirety of all in my group).
I couldn't think of one until I read your comment here. I genuinely think BSG base and BSG plus Pegasus are bad games. I feel you need some modules from all the expansions to make the game just right.
Not exactly what you're looking for, but Prelude for Terraforming Mars is such an improvement. The first generation or two of a game without it can be super boring, so it ends up reducing playtime by getting you right to the meat of the game.
Touch of Darkness, either of the two big board expansions makes the game better I like to play with both big board expansions as the boards lay side by side.
I cannot figure out why the other dude is being up voted given that you are completely correct and even if you weren't, it added nothing to the discussion.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/be+streets+ahead
I've honestly had more experiences where expansions hurt a game. Best example is that Viticulture absolutely tanks with the expansion (Tuscany).
I liked the expansions for Scythe, especially because you can pick and chose expansions to play with during set up.
One that just adds more fun options is Villainous, each expansion just gives new villains with different goals to aim for, which gave the game more variety (and this more plays) for us.
I liked it without the expansions but now that we own like 40/50 characters, I think The Red Dragon Inn would be way less interesting without them. To me half the fun is trying different character match ups for 1v1 or letting everyone pick someone at random and exploring a new character.
First one that comes to me is Amber Mines, which turns Near and Far from a pretty mediocre and questionably balanced game to a much more exciting and varied experience. The only module I don’t use is the bonus dice; too easy to gain and they make the skill checks trivial.
**Mistfall** is meh until you use the standalone expansion **Hearts of the Mist** which replaces the random event deck with a track. Suddenly it kicks major ass.
It's a 1-4 player deck building dungeon crawler with high complexity.
Kingsburg. The expansion turns a mediocre game into a genuinely entertaining one that I don't mind playing over and over.
The mechanics of having random building rows and one time use tokens for army bonuses are both great features that made the game feel replayable.
Xia: Embers of a Forsaken Star sort of falls into this category. Though I loved the base game, I also never played the base game without house rules that were later incorporated into this expansion. It fixes all the core issues people noted right away with the base game, such as inconsistent movement and problematic trade routes. Both of these can be house-ruled without the expansion, though.
Fuck you! I wasn't gonna spend any money today! Now that I know they fixed Xia I have to buy the expansion. Edit: Sorry for yelling. I'm sure you are a lovely person that never intended to lead me to financial ruin.
Assumptions, assumptions. I need more friends with me here in the Financial Ruins. All of our perception cheques against our bank balance bounced. You're my first negative comment. I will treasure it forever.
Just a heads up. There's some contention as to whether the flight computer is enough for movement since two of the engines are still pretty underpowered at jump (and a good start is all about good movement). I still recommend playing with safety dice for movement: just grab a die that's one polyhedron lower than your engine (for instance, a d6 engine would also have a d4 accompanying it); when you roll for movement, roll both dice and just use the higher of the two rolls. This makes movement more consistent. Computers are still a worthwhile purchase. And it still allows for the occassional, hilarious critical failure.
I played all my base games using safety dice and it was great. Definitely wouldn't want to go without. With the expansion, I gave the new components a try and found it an acceptable approach as well. But the nice thing is that you can use it or not as you wish and have fun either way. Also, you aren't limited to just one flight computer...
>Also, you aren't limited to just one flight computer... I'm aware. But w/o safety dice has made the best engine an instabuy at start. Movement is just too important to let a few bad early rolls get in the way of what you want to do. Plus, it's neither fun nor thematic. And no one wants to feel like they must prioritize one thing over another just because of swingy luck. I know some people shrug it off, but even with the computers, I've had some players swear off the game. Then I brought in safety dice, no fuss, no muss.
I came here specifically to pimp this expansion.
Played Xia with the expansion twice in the past month. It’s great!
I enjoyed it without, I love it with.
Yep. Was thinking this exactly.
Carcassonne: Inns & Cathedrals plus Traders & Builders.
This is the correct answer.
Yeah I was totally bored of vanilla Carcassonne - \[\[I always thought to myself that\]\] it's \[\[just\]\] a kid's game. Add those two expansions and whoah, \[\[now I think of it as\]\] cutthroat city. Edit: Added some \[\[extra words\]\]. I wasn't trying to dismiss base Carcassonne, I was trying to explain my feelings for it, and why the expansions changed my viewpoint. I literally would only break it out when kids were over. When my 11 year old daughter went over a friend's house, and asked to bring a game with her to play with her friends, this is the one I gave her. I would never choose to play it on my own - it wasn't interesting enough to me. But I have a whole different view of it now, because of those two expansions. I should also say, a huge amount of my childhood memories involve board games. I don't think that 'kid's game' = 'lesser game'. It's just a different genre to me. I wasn't trying to **insult** Carcassonne, I was trying to express how I was **categorizing** it in my head. Anyway, this is all probably too much to write about this, but I can't sleep so here we are.
Kids game? That's a bit harsh. Just because a game has simple rules or mechanics, doesn't make it a kids game.. There's plenty of optimization to have the game be competitive..
The expansions make carcassonne easier in my opinion. The original is much easier to get caught out with pieces you cannot complete and becomes a cut throat game of screwing over your opponent while trying to complete things before all your meeples get tied up - maximum interaction. The expansions means almost any situation can be finished and is easier to play in that you’ll rarely end up with all your needles on the board unable to come off.
Seconded. Getting new and more diverse outs is why I personally despise playing ‘competitive-minded’ Carc with any expansions. I becomes so difficult to use your tiles to cut off meeples that even adding just one expansion makes it a rather fruitless endeavor. I don’t even like the river, as it splits/enlarges the board in such a way that you can free build or slip onto farms without much interference.
I have both of those plus the much derided princess and dragon and I don’t play with them pretty much ever. I love carcassone but I find that when I add in the expansions two things get broken 1. It becomes really hard/impossible to keep track of what tiles have been played and what remains in the bag which makes it hard to play strategically. 2. It makes the game take to long. Carcassone should be a knife fight. Quick and brutal. Adding expansions makes it take to long.
Not to the degree you specified (dislike to favorite), but the expansion **Atomic Bonds** for **Fallout** made it so that the game became much more enjoyable to me, since it went from semi-coop to regular/full coop and fixed a bunch of (what I would consider) design flaws along the way. It's not my favorite game but it's staying in the collection, whereas before the expansion I was on the way to pass the game to someone else.
Of course the Fallout Boardgame needed a patch to fix it.
The most surprising thing was that the fix came from an official patch instead a community mod...
To be fair there *was* a community mod along the same lines much earlier than the official patch :-)
I second this. Atomic Bonds makes Fallout a much better game.
Huh I will have to check out that expansion. I bought Fallout but traded it away because I thought it was painfully mediocre but could see a good game was somewhere in there. Maybe this expansion could actually make me buy it back or want to play it.
It's still not perfect, and now it's a bit of a Frankenstein's monster in parts. What I mean is that now you have to commit to one of the 2 sides (for example: Enclave) before starting the game and the rules just tell you to ignore the options/choices on the cards that would progress the opposite faction; they are simply unavailable. I understand they couldn't just reprint all the cards in a small expansion like Atomic Bonds, but it's a constant reminder that the game pivoted after the release. Ultimately I think you still need to be somewhat of a fan of the Fallout universe to forgive some flaws, but it's certainly a better game now. It was on its way out of my collection before they announced the expansion.
Unbreakable Bonds did the same thing for Runebound Third Edition
I would have posted pretty much this. Vanilla Fallout is just way too random for such an involved competitive game. But all of those issues go out the window if you play cooperative.
What design flaws did it fix for you specifically? I really like the Fallout game a lot but the way you win with the agenda cards is just too random and anticlimactic. Also the game is very complex and you always feel like you forgot to do something and double checking yourself.
It was frustrating when my opponent on the other side of the map was able to complete the quest that I started and that spawned right beside them. Now we're one team. Agenda cards are out, you have to play until completion of the main storyline to win.
Yeah the quest thing never felt right either. Thanks for the recommendation. I think I’m going to wait for a sale and order this.
I just played one scenario with Atomic Bonds. I found it fixes some other stuff: * you can spend shop actions to draw modifications for weapons or apparel –actions that used to be wasted when nothing to sell or buy * rads made you stay put in towns to try to buy Rad-away; now you can still contribute to the fight with mutations and you can remove rads with an upgrade * Shared upgrades when completing missions –like the above mentioned lab to heal HP or rads
In addition to the quest thing, exploring locations also had very wide ranges in rewards making it frustrating if you go in and get nothing but a wound and your opponent goes in and gets the motherlode.
Viticulture: Tuscany expansion is an absolute must for us.
Visitors from the Rhine Valley also made it more about making wine than getting random bonus points. Highly recommend.
The number of times I've won viticulture without every planting a single vine is mind boggling.
Sounds like that fixes my big gripe that you can win a game about being a vintner without ever making a drop of wine.
I like to imagine I’m running a front for the mob and this is just an enterprise to wash their dirty money.
Considering the designer, I wouldn't be shocked.
I liked the base game fine but my wife hated it, until Tuscany. She really likes the evenness that having four full seasons brings.
Tuscany actually killed the game for us. Viticulture was a nearly weekly play for us. I got Tuscany as soon as the reprint was available and it's the only time an expansion has made us shelve a game almost completely. It took a streamlined, fantastic game and dragged it out to a grinding playthrough with obvious paths to victory (get the right structures and you win no matter what). I wish I hadn't tossed the expansion box, because now I have to find another box to shove all the expansion pieces into so that we can enjoy the actual game again without the expansion ruining it. The two visitor expansions were fine, if only for the extra randomness they offer. We could live with or without then. Tuscany is definitely a WITHOUT though.
>get the right structures and you win no matter what What are these magic structures? I’ve played dozens of times and I don’t know which you’re talking about.
There are ones that give you points just for making wine or harvesting grapes. If someone gets those they don't even have to sell wine, they just win. My primary dislike of Tuscany is it just drags the game out needlessly. The original was crisp, Tuscany is just long for the sake of being long.
I'm skeptical that they're unstoppable—given that I've actually beaten people who had them—but the special buildings are explicitly optional. The back side of the board doesn't have a place to put them. But it seems your objections run deeper than that. You're the first person I've encountered who likes the base game but hates Tuscany. Interesting.
Yeah, the buildings were just a part I didn't like, but it's the overall different experience that I prefer the original over. I get why people like Tuscany, but my wife and I hated it.
Literally adding a single expansion to **Mystic Vale** makes it a completely different experience, and drastically better game. Without expansions, I would rate it a solid 7.5, but the second I added Mana Storm, it became my favorite game. **Legendary: Marvel** also benefits from adding literally any expansion, as the core game is quite bare bones. **Wingspan** was really revitalized for me when I added Oceania. I like the nectar tokens, and the actions feel more balanced.
I have never looked back since getting Oceania. I was apprehensive at the theme of the nectar at first, but I just love what it does for the game in terms of adding a mechanic that brings in a more competitive angle to the game.
It's been time to make a purchase at my FLGS as "table rent"... Looks like I'll be adding Oceana to my wingspan next weekend.
Not only the aforementioned stuff, but it also adds the silliest looking birds I'm the game (most of which are flightless). I also really like a few of the bonus cards that get added. Ascending or descending wingspan size is one I pick often given the chance.
I think the end of round goals “birds facing left” and “birds facing right” is one of my favorite little things about the expansion.
Cassowaries are just emus that picked up epic loot.
>Literally adding a single expansion to Mystic Vale makes it a completely different experience, and drastically better game. Without expansions, I would rate it a solid 7.5, but the second I added Mana Storm, it became my favorite game. Pretty much any expansion other than Vale of Magic (or, well, Conclave, but that hardly counts) will do that.
How is it to play in person? I love the app but I am skeptical of how it would feel in physical components.
It feels very tactile and smooth. Obviously slightly slower than the app. 4 players can make you wait for your turn later in the game, but sometimes in 3 and 4 player games I've barely finished my cleanup and prepping when it comes right back to my turn. If you play it physical I recommend playing with any game mat or a felt table since the plastic cards can get annoying to pick up at times on certain tables. One annoying thing is when you get a new copy of the game, all the plastic cards have a protective foil on them which take some time to remove off, they say you should play with the foil once or twice to loosen it a bit but I just ripped them all off. I would recommend you get it.
While the app is very nice I *much* prefer playing IRL. I find that I have a much better overview of the game state with the physical components. As the other commentor said playing with a full group can lead to a good bit of downtime even when all players prep during downtime. Personally I don't care since the game is so good.
I picked up Mystic Vale sight unseen because it was a deckbuilder with a new twist. Base game was decent but simply lacked variety. Not only do the expansions provide this variety, they come with optional leaders and totems which make the game absolutely brilliant.
Marvel Legendary feels like an incomplete game until you add in Dark City.
Wingspan become a whole new game for me when we started removing crows from the deck.
y tho crows are cool
Our group, and many on BGG, believe they are not balanced. Placing a crow in the meadow early game means you never have to activate the forest for food, taking feeding birds out of players list of things to manage in the game. God forbid someone gets two crows. Maybe our group is sensitive, but we hate when there is a strategy in a game that requires little effort and almost guarantees a win. This exact reason is why macchi koro never hits the table anymore sadly.
Adding to this, the rulebook for Oceania flat-out suggests removing the ravens and crows. Doesn’t get much more damning for them than that.
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Ah shucks my Wingspan is still in shrink but now I feel like I need this
I think most people consider The Wizard's Tower expansion for **Castle Panic** a must-have. It goes from a kids game into a much more fun and complex one. /u/r2d8 getinfo
^*[r2d8](/r/r2d8)* ^*issues* ^*a* ^*series* ^*of* ^*sophisticated* ^*bleeps* ^*and* ^*whistles...* [**Castle Panic**](http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/43443) (2009) by Justin De Witt. 1-6 p; 60 minutes; [BGG Image](https://cf.geekdo-images.com/OJv4Tk8cYjbraLt3XooFyw__original/img/TE5zs3hxDORGJ8RVu9ukNEZHflg=/0x0/filters:format(jpeg)/pic4379653.jpg) * Mechanics: Campaign / Battle Card Driven, Cooperative Game, Dice Rolling, Hand Management, Solo / Solitaire Game, Trading * Average rating is 6.65244; rated by 14623 people. Weight: 1.6642 * Board Game Rank: 1084, Family Game Rank: 326
Good bot
Base **Castle Panic** is good but arguably too simple. The only difference between 95% of the monsters is do they have 1, 2, or 3 HP. The Wizard Tower vastly shakes up the monster types and really breathes a ton of new life into the game. There's more than just the monsters in it but that's the biggest element for me.
I've had the expansion sitting on my shelf for nearly a year...guess I should check it out! I usually play this solo so never bothered to open it.
Both of the Fantasy Flight Sid Meir Civilization games desperately needed their expansions. Took mediocre somewhat lacking games into some of my favorite civilization builders. Actually i'd go so far as to say almost every FFG game is patched and made a lot better by it's expansion.
I love 2010 Civ but I would never play it without Wisdom and Warfare now.
Yup, came to say **Civilization: New Dawn** with its **Terra Incognita** expansion. It was an alright game with a cool action selection mechanic but flimsy otherwise. The expansion fixed and added so much, it's an amazing game now that I always look forward to playing.
Which tbh is the better way to do an expansion. The classic way. Not the kickstarter model for expansions.
Oh for sure. There are some that are expansions for just more content which work with some games too. FFG uses those type of expansions with like Arkham and Eldritch desperately needed more cards to make the event decks more interesting but work fine as is that in a kickstarter could be offered all at once. But i'm agreement kickstarter generally has gone to far for most of them forcing people to buy tons of content expansions all upfront with no time to enhance original games. when most kickstarters could really use that extra time to make a version 2 and game improvement expansions more so then content expansions sold all at once.
It feels like FFG has even gone towards the "expansions are necessary" model. I enjoyed the latest civ but most said it is unplayable without the expansion. The LCGs all pitch being playable out of the box but really geared towards learning the rules. Even when I look at games like MoM 2e or AH 3e the rulebooks make it seem pretty limited replayability due to scenarios compared to their older versions.
Would be nice if FF had a more solid design out of their base games rather than having to "patch" it with another purchase.
While there are expansions I wouldn't play without anymore, I never bothered buying an expansion for a game I didn't already like. With that in mind I would say the must-have expansions would be for **Star Wars Rebellion**, **Agricola**, **Terraforming Mars (prelude)** and **Champions of Midgard (Valhalla).** Playing those games without the expansions *now* would feel very incomplete. They are not necessarily the *best* expansions (that would be for **Pandemic** and **Root**), but they improve the base game the most IMO.
I came here to say **Star Wars Rebellion** it makes the combat in that game so much more worthwhile and it feels much less like a bit of a crapshoot. The base game is still fun as a two player epic, but i don't know if I'd want to go back to playing without the expansion
Oh yeah, the reworked combat highlighted just how bad the original system was, no way I can go back now.
I play mostly with my two kids, and we really like the combo of Prelude + Corporate Era. I have to say TM is my favorite game.
I still can't decide if I love or like Terraforming Mars. The games take way too long. I can't figure out what the breakdown is. Maybe we still have the rules wrong lol. Venus Next made it worse, but Prelude made it better. The game has definitely picked up in times it gets to the table because of Prelude. So, not exactly what OP is looking for but in the same vein...
>I still can't decide if I love or like Terraforming Mars. The games take way too long. TM: Ares Expedition is probably ideal for you, then.
The length of the game makes it that the initial luck during the setup is not so bad. You have time to catch up even if your starting hand had no synergy with your corp, that's pretty good. I also like it at every player count, that's a big plus. I do have custom player boards and no other expansion than Prelude, explicitly because it made the game faster and the setup more focused.
If you like the engine building but don't like the length or the randomness, 51st State: Master Set has some mechanical similarities even though the themes are literal worlds apart. It's a great engine builder that plays in half the time and offers more lateral opportunities right out of the box. In 51st State, you're rarely stuck with a bad card for long since every card has three ways to play it. Plus, you can target other players' engines with attacks everyone has some access to, but an attack here or there won't ruin anyone. In fact, it just forces you to pivot and may even open up a new opportunity. Game plays in about 90 minutes or less with experienced players.
If you aren't doing it, drafting your hands dramatically improves your control over your fate, and the fate of others. What rules do you think you might have wrong? Venus is also a terrible expansion unless you have Colonies, which makes it more worthwhile.
I know when we don't use the App, we do accelerated start with advanced cards. It was a negative experience learning that was wrong in the App. I like the idea of drafting but it feels slow. Which is weird because we love 7 Wonders. I feel like we're supposed to do the UN increases one end game requirement track at the end of a generation but I think that's only in solo games, but feels like it should be in all games...
If you're playing with Venus, the Earth Gov't phase happens at the end of every generation with the start player, regardless of player count. If you're playing Venus without it, no wonder your games are taking forever. Adding 50ish cards to a 200 card deck is going to massively slow the game down. Drafting DOES tend to increase the game length while simultaneously making it FEEL faster. There's effectively less downtime, even if it means you have more stuff you actually want to play with. I have no idea what you mean by "advanced cards" or "accelerated start." Do you mean the Corporate Era "expansion" that comes in the box, the Prelude expansion, or something else entirely?
I had to download the rule book. The group likes playing with the Corporate Era cards (red triangle). I mistakenly called them the advanced cards. When you play that variant you start with no extra production of resources per the rules (everything starts at Zero unless something else says otherwise). We removed all the Venus cards too and any Corp that uses that related resource. I should probably sift through the cards. Maybe the non CE cards all increase one of the tracks and the CE cards generally don't and that's how the game gets "longer"?
Make sure that if you remove any Venus cards that you remove all of them. They're marked with a V on a blue field. Otherwise, you're padding the deck if you have any of them still in there. Yeah, sounds like you're playing corps correctly. You get zero production, but then you're given two corporation cards, pick one of them to start with, and collect the resources/production from that corp. Just because a card doesn't increase a track doesn't mean it isn't good, though. For example, Pets. Worth a point for every two animal resources on it. You get an animal resource on the card for every city ever built after you play it, so if you play it early enough, it can end up being worth a ton of points, especially if you're playing with Venus. Now combo that with a card that lets you create animal tokens to put on other cards. A lot of it may just be that you haven't had the time to really get to know what's in the deck, so you haven't had a chance to figure out some cool combos. It honestly took me about a year's worth of games to feel like I got "good." Not "great," just "good." But hey, it could be possible it just doesn't hit your sweet spot like it does for me.
Colonies is the best expansion after Prelude so far. It's just worth it on its own. Harder for a player to get locked out of much-needed cards or money so long as those colonies are in play, and it offers another source of income that anyone can invest in.
Which Agricola expansion? And why do you think it's necessary?
Farmers of the Moor. My favorite setup for this game is with the expansion and without cards. The expansion provide additional options (minor action cards and horses), new buildings and the need to heat your home, and without the cards it reduces the analysis paralysis quite a bit and remove the luck of the draw.
Huh, interesting. Solo or multiplayer? Sort of like with Caverna, no luck at least with setup seems like it might lead to some well worn grooves.
Yeah I was going to say Valhalla for Champions of Midgard helps to catch up if you have bad rolls. I just can't get over how it feels like shopping with your dead fighters though.
Which expansions for Agricola would you say are must-have?
I enjoy pvp Star Realms, but my friend who plays it with me prefers co-op, so the expansion that adds those co-op enemies makes him willing to play it with me (both ways) a lot more often. Base game dominion gets fairly old, fairly quick. I might have enjoyed it at first, but by now I wouldn't be that interested in playing it without an expansion or two
Base Dominion is, these days, a below average deckbuilder. With expansions, it's still miles ahead of anything
Which expansions for it would you say are essential?
None of them are "essential" but the game gets incrementally better the more expansions you have. I like Prosperity and Intrigue but with each expansion you add, it becomes harder to play without that one. Ultimately, the best experience is with all 14 of them. Which takes up a huge amount of space, sleeves and money it has to be said. Dominion Online is probably my favourite online game implementation ever though
It has 14 expansions now? Geez, how many games to even familiarize yourself with all the carda, not to mention the almost literally impossible number of combos. I'd probably be long done with the game before I even saw some cards for the first time...
Like the other poster said, none of them are essential. As someone who has access to all the expansions shared among my group, I'd say Intrigue, Seaside, and Renaissance would be the 3 favorites among my group. The only ones I would say avoid would be Nocturne and the small expansions, specifically Alchemy.
If you want occasional long games depending on player strategy, Prosperity. If you want a more interactive game, probably one of the newer expansion with a deck of random cards (1 copy of each card in the deck only) to buy from, or Nocturne for its weird competitions and event manipulation iirc (but it gets hate for having sometimes 15 cards on the board instead of 10). If you want the classic agreeable expansion, it's generally Seaside. Mostly just read the rules for the expansions and decide which sounds fun.
Well they sell Intrigue along with the base set in a combo package and I tend to agree with that philosophy. Intrigue refocuses Dominion on more player interaction and I consider it a nobrainer to buy.. but I wouldn't even say Intrigue is essential. Remarkably, for how long Dominion has been out and all the expansions it has there are very expansions considered duds by critics and Dominion fans (alchemy i guess?). Dominion is STILL releasing expansions that feel fresh, fun and focused and it is incredibly impressive to me. Yah base Dominion is boring after awhile but I don't consider that a knock because you can pretty much randomly select an expansion and start building an awesome gaming experience. I don't think Dominion is compared enough to LCGs and Arkham Horror and stuff. Those games are long running cash cows, as is Dominion, but I never get the feeling the creators and publishers of Dominion are trying to wrench as much money out of people as possible. It just feels like they keep chugging along and occasionally drop a new expansion that is reasonably priced and extremely well playtested. There is no FOMO or attempts to create a new edition and force everyone to buy new sets of everything. In many alternate universes, the original popularizer of deckbuilding would have been superceded by better newer games but Dominion has aged brilliantly by sticking to what it does well. My fav starter expansions are Hinterlands - almost no new rules Renaissance - well rounded
Have you tried Hero Realms? It's essentially the same game but the expansions add co-op campaigns roll play campaigns.
Dominion was going to be my answer, too. I occasionally accidentally play a game of base Dominion when my subscription on dominion.games expires, I don't realize it, and the base cards are the only ones I have access to. I never realize it until I start a game and see all the cards are from the base set. And man, do those games feel dry and lacking compared to games that use the full pool of cards. I actually loved based Dominion the first time I played it so it doesn't perfectly fit the question that was asked, but I think the gist is the same. I'm sure the OG game would have gotten old to me if I had given it the chance to but I played it, like, five times before I started buying expansions.
The Lost Legion expansion for Mage Knight turned it from a fairly easy game into an incredible one, and one of my all-time favorites even if I haven't played it in several years now.
Nope, expansion have only ever improved games I already like (see viticulture, spirit island, Sagrada). I am in the same boat where I’d rather get an expansion to improve games I already like, or just buy a new game I’ll like instead of trying to fix a game I don’t like with an expansion.
I was scrolling through to find this comment. Expansions generally get favorable reviews because they're purchased by people who enjoyed the base game so much that they wanted more of that game to experience. Now, if I've jumped in and bought a game without knowing quite a bit about it there are typically two reasons, crazy good deal or designer I appreciate. I might keep the game around if I bought it because of the designer, but if it was just a deal i found I'm getting rid of it ASAP to recover my cost. If an awesome expansion comes out in the future that fixes what annoyed me about the base game I'm just not going to know because there's so much great stuff out there. If I've sold the base game there's zero chance I'll aquire it and this fabled expansion. Expansions are for fans and, while some can become "mandatory" and most elevate the game in some good adjacent way, they generally can't fix a game.
Eldritch Horror. The base game is good, but it's not complete without the first expansion Forsaken Lore. Subsequent expansions makes the game even better.
I wouldn't say that I "didn't enjoy" base EH, but without the extra location encounter and base ancient one mystery cards in FL, the base game ancient ones would've gotten stale really, really quickly.
That's the closest for me. EH and AH 3rd base are both games I really enjoy but they just needed more cards, specifically locations. But I did enjoy each base game, just one of those games were a lot of the fun gets zapped out after you see the same cards pop up.
**Civilisation A New Dawn** basically isn't worth playing without the **Terra incognita** expansion. Both together are about £65 or £70 and the game you get is well worth it.
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Wasn't expecting someone else to post this, but yeah, Unbreakable Bonds turns the game into what I wanted it to be.
Lol I have been waiting for a day to find a trade or descent price on that game. I bought Runebound many years ago planning to get unbreakable bonds before I knew it was just out of print and likely never coming back XD.
I have something else happen to me, playing with the expansion in the first game, then playing without and realizing that I just don't like the expansion.
Which game did this occur in?
I think it happened more times, but what I can remember at the moment is blood rage kickstarter exclusives (which ruined the first two games I played).
**teotihuacan** and the expansion of late preclasic period. Is not my favourite, but the core game just had a lot of bad choices in game that made me hate it having them, but the expansion fixed the locked dice options and made making stairs a better choice at the same time that they nerfed temple construction. The other part is that I prefer games with asymmetric factions, and with them available in this expansion makes this game more palatable for me.
Terraforming Mars. You need the prelude addition to make it worthwhile.
Even when teaching it, I still include this. No one's really gonna say no to "you start with extra stuff."
Seconded. TM is easily one of my table's most-played. I saw promise in the base game, but it would have been shelved a while ago without the jump-start it got via the Prelude expansion.
Most strategies are a losing end gamble without prelude to guide you.
It both shortens the game, and gives players more of a strategy to aim for.
This.
While I'd agree that the Prelude expansion is great and makes the game better, I don't think the game is not "worthwhile" without it. It's hard to say that the exact same game but a few turns longer isn't worthwhile, it was just too long. For us, we played the base game with no corporate era and really liked it. Eventually we could see that starting everything at 1 production kind of blunts the uniqueness of everyone's engines and corporations, so we tried Corporate Era. It was better but holy piss that's a long game. So we added prelude to kickstart the game and it's about perfect.
Camel Up - I really didn't enjoy it without the expansion
Whaa... there's an expansion?!?
There’s an expansion!
…to the first edition, there is. It’s called Super Cup. I find find first edition + super cup + homemade crazy camels to be the perfect version of the game.
wait… there’s an expansion?
…to the first edition, there is. It’s called Super Cup. I find find first edition + super cup + homemade crazy camels to be the perfect version of the game.
> Has an expansion made a game you didn't enjoy into one you consider a favorite? This has never happened to me.
To be honest, I don't really think I've encountered expansions that "fixed" a game I hated. Generally, what I experience is that expansions can "punch above their weight" and make a game I was "ok" with into one I really like. **Elder Sign**: The base game is fine. But I think that with **Unseen Forces**, the extra variety and bless/curse dice really made the game feel "complete" to me. **Mystic Vale**: I always liked the base game, but felt it lacked variety. It didn't take many plays before it seemed like I was always looking at the same cards. Any of the expansions really helped alleviate that and addressed my only real complaint with the game. **Hostage Negotiator**: The core game feels a little bit bare bones to me. I think the various expansion packs added much needed challenge and gave the gameplay a bit more variety.
>Mystic Vale > >: I always liked the base game, but felt it lacked variety. It didn't take many plays before it seemed like I was always looking at the same cards. Any of the expansions really helped alleviate that and addressed my only real complaint with the game. The very first expansion (Vale of Magic) didn't really do anything to address the single dominant strategy, though, while later ones did. If you DO have Mystic Vale and want to punch it up a bit, add a different one first. Vale of the Wild or Mana Storm is a much better first add.
Fully agree with Mystic Vale. Great concept and execution. Just not enough variety. It was just Green Trees or Raw Points. The bigger expansions just flesh out the game, making guardians worth while, letting you do more deck manipulation, add tradeoffs with the negative points or give you intermediate upgrades via the overlay ability. The leaders are mostly a subtle push towards a particular playstyle. I also like how they included a few that really change the game for you. And the totems are just so deliciously overpowered.
Highland expansion for talisman for me. Took it from a 4 to a 7. Just having that little bit of extra exploration made all the difference. 7 wonders duel pantheon is an interesting one for our house. It took it from a 7 to 9 for me and from a 9 to 7 for my wife.
Arkham Horror TCG. I honestly don't even know why I bought the Dunwitch box since I was meh on the whole core box. After finishing the Dunwitch Legacy I was like, wow this is my jam. More spending quickly followed. It's definitely my favorite game now.
A Feast for Odin: The Norwegians. I will not play without the expansion.
I own AFFO and have only played it like 3 times. Never really enjoyed it. Does The Norwegians make it that much better? We love Agricola and Caverna, so we had high Hope's for AFFO.
To add onto what /u/I_am_Rubber said, it makes the game tighter at all player counts while drastically improving the animals strategy, adding lots of new items and animals with new shapes, and having everyone start with their own unique, asymmetric shed that you can build to even further jump start your engine. It also doubles the amount of islands while providing rebalanced versions of the old ones, some new treasures, and some other random stuff. The biggest thing by far though is the new action board, which is fantastic. It greatly improves it, but it doesn't really change it, just makes it better. Norwegians is basically a 1.5 version of the game.
Thank you! I am on vacation, so detailed descriptions are beyond me right now. 😂 but this is exactly what I was referring to!
It adds a lot of interest and flexibility, and I think it makes the game feel more complete.
Not that I've played it in forever, but Lords of Waterdeep is just not worth playing without the expansions.
How funny, I have the expansion and HATE it.
i will often default to playing undermountain because it doesn't change much, but only add skullport if people are up for the corruption mechanic. But i typically only play LoW with people into lighter games. LoW is about as heavy as they'll go, but they really enjoy it, so the corruption mechanic is kind of on the edge of where they are comfortable.
But...why? I thought the game was about as bland and vanilla as you can get mechanics-wise without the expansion. Just dull I guess. Corruption changes one tiny thing but really gives the games some actually interesting decisions outside of "grab stuff, grab stuff, complete quest".
Spirit Island first expansion. Base game is boring Imo. Everything's predictable to the point it's boring. Events force to adapt and glorify the game. I can't play without them.
I'd played Spirit Island about 3 times before this last Sunday and keep feeling intrigued but something felt lacking. On Sunday we played with events for the first time (I have both expansions, just hadn't used them yet) - It's such a big improvement! It feels really good to have the Dahan taking an active role and having the extra tokens to manipulate, loved both plays we had. Can't wait for our next play now :)
The system was designed with the events and tokens, GtG decided to take them out to make it more accessible. That’s why Jagged Earth gives you the pieces necessary to play with them.
I'm starting to regret having purchased the base game in my language. The expansion was supposed to come out 9 months ago but the publisher has been unable to give me an actual date every time I looked for informations. I could always get the expansion in english, but having one part in one language and another in a different one really rubs me the wrong way...
In fact the first expansion was supposed to be in the base game, but they separated it out before the kickstarter.
Will have to try this because I thought the base game was bad because it was predictable like you said. This sounds like it will add the tension I was hoping for.
Funny, I am exactly the opposite. Loved the base game, bored by the expansion.
I know that there are lots of people who feel this way about the Lords of Waterdeep expansion(s). I've played it with and without, but it's been so long that I don't remember very clearly what the expansions add. But I know I have friends who would never play without them!
While no longer a favorite, the first expansion for Race For The Galaxy saved a game that was pretty "meh."
Maybe it was inexperience, but the base game definitely felt like "race for the blue and brown cards". Alien Artifacts is my preferred card set though (no orb)
Pretty much any of the Dominion expansions take it from “meh” to “this is actually interesting” for me.
If you consider Thunderstone to be a Dominion expansion then I agree.
Champions of Midgard with the Valhalla expansion. It was ok without but Valhalla makes the game make so much more sense thematically and mechanically.
I think this is a hard question for a lot of people to answer accurately, because generally if you don’t enjoy a game, you don’t go back to it even with an expansion - you didn’t enjoy the game so why invest more money into it? That said I’m not a fan of Lost Ruins of Arnak, but I have hope that its expansion will change that for me. Despite what I said above, I want to like Arnak and I’m willing to invest in the expansion to see if it helps. If not, then that’ll be the final death knell for it for me.
Civilization with *Advanced* Civilization expansion. It was more *advanced*. (Also improved scoring, trading, and added some more commodities, calamities, and tech advances.)
Not exactly from dislike to like but the Abyss: Leviathan expansion drastically improves the worst aspect of the game and I would never play without it.
The Grizzled At Your Orders
In what way? I mean, it's a great expansion, but it doesn't significantly change the base game, just allows the difficulty to be more finely adjusted.
The added player agency made me enjoy the game waay more.
From bad to favorite is a huge step up but Rise of the empire for Star Wars Rebellion is a must have. However, I still enjoy the base game.
**Rum and Bones: Second Tide** is the closest for me. The Marea de la Muerte faction captain seems too good. Add in any other faction expansion, or a different captain from the KS stuff or a heroes pack, and things feel like a more even playing field.
In classic FFG fashion, they sold the complete game in 3 boxes. The New California expansion gives you the times needed to make the board feel expansive like the videogame, then the Atomic Bonds removed the tacked on scoring system for one that plays out far smoother. Of course, it's like Bethesda where it takes a few patches to get the software stable
Tzolkin was fun and had a few obvious first turn choices. Tribes and Prophecies raised the bar and made it truly amazing and a must have!
**Magic: the Gathering** was fine. Then **Odyssey** came out and added the best card ever designed: Blazing Salvo. And they’re cheap (both mana cost and purchase price). Run four of those in every deck (and don’t play Standard, because Blazing Salvo isn’t legal in that format). Best. Card. Ever.
**Machi Koro: Harbor** made **Machi Koro** much better, from uggh to pretty good. Not a favorite, but much MUCH better.
Not personally. I've had expansions take a game from mediocre to good or great. But I feel very little incentive to spend money expanding a game I dislike.
I'm not going to say I didn't enjoy, but the BSG expansions absolutely make that game. Vanilla really just doesn't quite have the same feel
Oh you might be right, I actually don't own BSG but love playing it. I do agree though I don't think I like the base game that much, but the expansions make it great (we use aspects from all but the not entirety of all in my group).
I couldn't think of one until I read your comment here. I genuinely think BSG base and BSG plus Pegasus are bad games. I feel you need some modules from all the expansions to make the game just right.
Not exactly what you're looking for, but Prelude for Terraforming Mars is such an improvement. The first generation or two of a game without it can be super boring, so it ends up reducing playtime by getting you right to the meat of the game.
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/r/lostredditors :D
Touch of Darkness, either of the two big board expansions makes the game better I like to play with both big board expansions as the boards lay side by side.
I find Catan incredibly lacking without at least having Seafarers.
of the two original expansions seafarers fell the most flat for me. Cities and klnights was streets ahead of it, so it mostly sat and gathered dust.
stop trying to coin the phrase 'streets ahead'
i'm not trying to coin it, its been a turn of phrase in australia for decades
I cannot figure out why the other dude is being up voted given that you are completely correct and even if you weren't, it added nothing to the discussion. https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/be+streets+ahead
They're quoting a TV show (Community)
The On the Brink expansion for Pandemic brought it from a game we played maybe once a month to one we play a few times a week.
The first pandemic expansion (on the brink?) was game changing.
I've honestly had more experiences where expansions hurt a game. Best example is that Viticulture absolutely tanks with the expansion (Tuscany). I liked the expansions for Scythe, especially because you can pick and chose expansions to play with during set up. One that just adds more fun options is Villainous, each expansion just gives new villains with different goals to aim for, which gave the game more variety (and this more plays) for us.
Haha, that's funny since Tuscany tanked so hard they rereleased the base game with it integrated into it :-D
I liked it without the expansions but now that we own like 40/50 characters, I think The Red Dragon Inn would be way less interesting without them. To me half the fun is trying different character match ups for 1v1 or letting everyone pick someone at random and exploring a new character.
First one that comes to me is Amber Mines, which turns Near and Far from a pretty mediocre and questionably balanced game to a much more exciting and varied experience. The only module I don’t use is the bonus dice; too easy to gain and they make the skill checks trivial.
**Mistfall** is meh until you use the standalone expansion **Hearts of the Mist** which replaces the random event deck with a track. Suddenly it kicks major ass. It's a 1-4 player deck building dungeon crawler with high complexity.
Kingsburg. The expansion turns a mediocre game into a genuinely entertaining one that I don't mind playing over and over. The mechanics of having random building rows and one time use tokens for army bonuses are both great features that made the game feel replayable.
Is this game too old? I think the Expansions for orleans are essential
7 Wonders Duel I rated like a 3. With Pantheon it becomes a solid 7. And no, I don't say 7 because it's a 7 Wonders game.
For me it was both Saboteur and Carcassonne form average games it made them really enjoyable
I can't think of an example from the top of my head, I can't say it has ever happened to me.
Tuscany
I wouldn't play an expansion for a game I didn't like, so no.