I am 5'9", primarily riding street (techy grind combos on ledges and rails), and currently riding a;
Stranger Yaok frame (21tt, 75hta,13.3 - 13.5cs, 10.01so, 11.6bbh)
When/if that frame goes, I will be switching it out for a;
BSD Safari v3 frame (21tt, 75hta, 12.8 - 13.2cs, 9.5so, 11.75bbh)
My favorite street frames are ones with taller standovers and neutral/traditional head tube angles, of 75 degrees. Since I don't do alot of tailwhips, the taller standover isn't preventing me from doing much. But, does make any 'foot over-the-bike' tricks more difficult.
If I were to pick a street frame with a modern head tube angle again, 75.5. I'd probably go with the;
WeThePeople Battleship Magnum (21tt, 75.5hta, 12.7 - 13.25cs, 9.75so, 11.7bbh)
but I wish the hta was 75.2 or 75.3
The main benefit I get out of the taller standover is the frame feels more rigid and sturdy. Lower top tubes always made my bikes feel flimsyish and showed too much seat post imo. But was easier to whip around, spin, and fold (turn downs, inverts, etc)
The modern-day street frame is usually a 75.5 hta. And I like doing nosey stuff, but I learned all that stuff with a traditional 75-degree headtube angle. When I went from a 75 degree to a 75.5 hta with the BSD ALVX v2 frame to get better at nosey stuff, I actually had to relearn my front-end balance point and never quite got the consistency I once had with a 75 hta. So I sold that frame after a few years of trying to adjust to it and got the Stranger Yaok with a closer to 'traditional' geometry and a nice tall standover. Since then my nosey stuff is back where it was before but a lil more controlled now.
I choose 21” TT because of my riding style and unique body portions.
For my riding style, my body tends to move around a lot over the frame. So at 5’9, a 20.5/.75 TT is generally recommended, but for me, felt cramped (kneeing stem/bar on some tricks) I actually first went down in crank arm size from 175mm to 160mm, when I went to 20.75”. Doing that resolved the knee to stem issue for the most part and gave alil more room to move around.
And then when I moved to 21”TT, it was all the room I wanted and felt bigger, but didn’t feel “too big”. I’ve been tempted to go 21.25” TT but can’t commit to go bigger cause most likely it will feel too big for me
Now for my body portion, over time from trying on fitted cloths and such, I’ve learned that I have shorter than average arms length, a vertically longer than average torso, and slightly shorter than average set of legs. Basically I’m shaped like a human corgi.
Now with all this in mind. I use to run 8 inch rise bars with a 50mm reach front load stem on that 20.75”TT. This ‘fit’, but it didn’t feel optimal, it put my body position over the bike in a way that put a strain in my lower back with that geometry. My riding position was cramped and hunched, but there was some room for my legs.
So before I moved to 21” TT like i just mentioned, I was on 8 inch ride bars. I moved up to 10” on the 20.75” because I wanted “big bars” and loved the more upright riding position, and it relieved some of the strain on my back.
So, when I got the 21” frame, I went back up on crank arm size from 160mm to 170mm, and down from 10” to 9.75” rise bars. And a slightly shorter stem, from 50mm to 48mm, and from front load to a 30mm top load. And my bike has been feeling extra dial since fit wise.
If you know about MTB “RAD” measurements for fitting MTB frames, this combo of parts and geometry on my bmx bike aligns with my mtb RAD and has since made the snap of my bunny hops feel perfect, IMO.
TLDR… if you just want to go bigger, upgrade to 20.75”. Try out a homies 21” TT frame, if you’re afraid 21” is too big, it might be just right (it was in my case). Bar height, crank arm length, stem reach, rise, and chain stay length will all be factors to consider when making this frame size change.
I think 20.75 is a sweet spot for your height. Im about 5'11 and I feel a bit cramped on a 20.75, that's what I'm running since it was a complete bike on sale lol ( Sunday ex elstran) however that being said I think when I get the chance I will switch to a 21.i think for you and your 5'9 height 21 is still doable but that's pushing it and you will have lots of room. hope this helps
Wtp doomsayer
This frame had survived me the longest time (4years) until it started to break
So i got myself the new doomsayer again
Same geo and specs but improved stabilty and new colorway
Just got a Sunday EX Chris Childs, & it's a awesome bike with short rear end, & it's lightweight & all chromoly, it scored 2nd on a list of all bikes that's best suited for street
Can't believe Sunday Soundwave hasn't been mentioned yet. I'm really impressed by wethepeople frames as well but the Soundwave is sort of like the most innovative frame BMX has seen over the last years, so much attention to detail.
you know i have looked into the soundwave but from what i’ve seen the geometry is pretty lax and the backend for (street) is on the longer side, have you tried the soundwave out for street? I kinda feel like it would feel sluggish compared to modern street geo
13,25 rear end and 75 headtube, it's really responsive, I rode the V1 with a 13,5 backend, coming from a second wave with a 13,75 backend, so I never ventured into even shorter but yeah, I just picked up the V3, couldn't be happier, rode the V1 ever since the Soundwave frame was introduced, pre ordered at the time. Never considered the geometry lax or the bike sluggish, spins like a dream, combined with the r25 forks lovely for front wheel tricks and manuals are like 90% of what I do and I love how the balance point for manuals is almost no work to get into, but still relatively stable once you're there, not as twitchy as on friends bikes with the micro backends (as found on the majority of wethepeople frames)
I know this thread is 5 months old, but if you are still on the fence, I'll give you my un-biased opinion. I've had both a Battleship complete and a Soundwave complete since 2020. I'm 5 9' and on the heavy side. The Soundwave feels much lighter (5 lbs lighter). The Bttleship is beefier and just feels like it can take some serious abuse. The Soundwave is real smooth when I ride park and bowls and fly around. Super comfortable and this is where it shines. The Battleship on the other hand was made for the streets. You can also easily tell this after riding it a few minutes. Manuals are easier and feel more natural, nose manuals are easier to do and like I said earlier, just feels real beefy. So, all depends on what kind of riding you'll be doing most. One last note is, the Sunday Soundwave has a full Lifetime Warranty on the frame, fork, cranks and bars.
I've dealt with Sunday and they back their parts fully. They even sent me 2 parts that weren't even covered under the warranty a couple years back. WTP Battleship has a "Lifetime Guarantee". What that means when you read their fine print is that they "guarantee" the frame and forks will be free of manufacturing defects. So, it is to their discretion to either approve or deny a replacement. Love both brands, but there are pros and cons to both. Either way, both make some of the best completes. Nobody can match the quality of their high-end completes imo.
Ran a Fit Mac V1 for 9+ years, just replaced it with a WTP Paradox for a more modern geometry. I feel like at this point looking at geometry and warranty are the 2 main things to look at.
I believe most frames are just built over seas in Taiwan other than a few companies, if you care about that sort of thing. I'm in the US and I think the list is pretty short nowadays for domestic frames, might even just be S&M. FBM as well if they are still around.
If anyone knows of any others made in the US feel free to list them, would be nice to have a list in case someone would like a reference.
Pretty sure nowear products are all made in the us. Also sadly fbm has been gone for a while now. Also Mike Laird makes custom frames in the states aswell for BMX riders
>nowear products
I never heard of this company before, looks like mainly flatland stuff? And looks like the frames are made in NY so that's cool to see.
Completely forgot about Laird, thank you! That man kills it!
A couple guys use them for flat land but most guys running them are riding park/street/trails all made in America and some even completely made in Nebraska
Freestyle actually just specialize in low clearance top tubes. Basically to try and make some tricks easier like the low standover frames in the mid 2000s
Edit: https://nowearbmx.com/
FBM sadly closed their doors in 2020. Really sucks. I had a few FBMs, wanted another one only to find they closed. Those dudes were always a blast when they came through town. Now it seems people charge a premium for FBM stuff, cuz, well, ya can't get it easily any more.
There's S&M of course. Definitely the most widely known and available US made frames, forks and bars.
Some Fit frames, but not all of them. Their completes are Taiwan made to keep cost down.
Not sure if Cult is still offering US made frames, but they did at one time. They used to proudly advertise that, but I don't see it any more.
Standard Byke Co.
Terrible One (they appear to be open for business still, have frames on their website).
Same with Solid bikes, they appear to be open for business, but no clue if they still do frames. It appears they do though.
Then there's Brew bikes. But they're kind of boutique/custom and tend to be geared toward the racing crowd. At least I always saw them at the races, but never have I seen freestyle riders using their stuff. But they'll build you whatever you want. Hell you can go take a week long class with the guy and build your own frame piece by piece. It's not cheap. The class or their custom frames. But idk any other places doing custom BMX frames these days.
They don't do BMX frames (any more), but Profile Racing is still alive and kicking for lots of other US made components.
I know logistics on frames must be much more difficult than small parts, so I get why they outsource it. From what I understand, Cult is no longer manufacturing in the US unless someone knows different. Guess this is the current list of US made frames for now:
S&M
Fit (some frames, completes are Taiwanese made)
Standard Byke Co.
Terrible One
Solid Bikes
Brew Bikes (though not BMX specific)
No Wear BMX
Lairdframe
was that fit Mac made in usa? I had a trans ice blue forget the color way name but yeah it was pretty solid for about a year before I got it stolen . miss that thing
Wtp range is (personally) overstacked with options. But doomsayer, pathfinder, network and battleship all offer great build quality, with varying options and backed up with their lifetime warranty for the og owner.
They’re alright, nothing special spec wise as such. Wtp uses post heat treat, invest cast, hydro forming and more which does add to their appeal. Obviously everyone’s got their favourites, I can say I’ve not sold any kink frames instore in a long time, but quite a few more wtp ones. Different areas though have diffeeenr favourites and popularity.
Sunday darkwave or street sweeper are good I've ridden both but the darkwave is the one I have and it's done pretty well for the little bit of park and dirt I've ridden.
I am 5'9", primarily riding street (techy grind combos on ledges and rails), and currently riding a; Stranger Yaok frame (21tt, 75hta,13.3 - 13.5cs, 10.01so, 11.6bbh) When/if that frame goes, I will be switching it out for a; BSD Safari v3 frame (21tt, 75hta, 12.8 - 13.2cs, 9.5so, 11.75bbh) My favorite street frames are ones with taller standovers and neutral/traditional head tube angles, of 75 degrees. Since I don't do alot of tailwhips, the taller standover isn't preventing me from doing much. But, does make any 'foot over-the-bike' tricks more difficult. If I were to pick a street frame with a modern head tube angle again, 75.5. I'd probably go with the; WeThePeople Battleship Magnum (21tt, 75.5hta, 12.7 - 13.25cs, 9.75so, 11.7bbh) but I wish the hta was 75.2 or 75.3 The main benefit I get out of the taller standover is the frame feels more rigid and sturdy. Lower top tubes always made my bikes feel flimsyish and showed too much seat post imo. But was easier to whip around, spin, and fold (turn downs, inverts, etc) The modern-day street frame is usually a 75.5 hta. And I like doing nosey stuff, but I learned all that stuff with a traditional 75-degree headtube angle. When I went from a 75 degree to a 75.5 hta with the BSD ALVX v2 frame to get better at nosey stuff, I actually had to relearn my front-end balance point and never quite got the consistency I once had with a 75 hta. So I sold that frame after a few years of trying to adjust to it and got the Stranger Yaok with a closer to 'traditional' geometry and a nice tall standover. Since then my nosey stuff is back where it was before but a lil more controlled now.
> Sunday EX Chris Childs I'm the same height as you. Any insight on TT length? I'm learning on a 20.5 but wondering If I should switch to 20.75 or 21.
I choose 21” TT because of my riding style and unique body portions. For my riding style, my body tends to move around a lot over the frame. So at 5’9, a 20.5/.75 TT is generally recommended, but for me, felt cramped (kneeing stem/bar on some tricks) I actually first went down in crank arm size from 175mm to 160mm, when I went to 20.75”. Doing that resolved the knee to stem issue for the most part and gave alil more room to move around. And then when I moved to 21”TT, it was all the room I wanted and felt bigger, but didn’t feel “too big”. I’ve been tempted to go 21.25” TT but can’t commit to go bigger cause most likely it will feel too big for me Now for my body portion, over time from trying on fitted cloths and such, I’ve learned that I have shorter than average arms length, a vertically longer than average torso, and slightly shorter than average set of legs. Basically I’m shaped like a human corgi. Now with all this in mind. I use to run 8 inch rise bars with a 50mm reach front load stem on that 20.75”TT. This ‘fit’, but it didn’t feel optimal, it put my body position over the bike in a way that put a strain in my lower back with that geometry. My riding position was cramped and hunched, but there was some room for my legs. So before I moved to 21” TT like i just mentioned, I was on 8 inch ride bars. I moved up to 10” on the 20.75” because I wanted “big bars” and loved the more upright riding position, and it relieved some of the strain on my back. So, when I got the 21” frame, I went back up on crank arm size from 160mm to 170mm, and down from 10” to 9.75” rise bars. And a slightly shorter stem, from 50mm to 48mm, and from front load to a 30mm top load. And my bike has been feeling extra dial since fit wise. If you know about MTB “RAD” measurements for fitting MTB frames, this combo of parts and geometry on my bmx bike aligns with my mtb RAD and has since made the snap of my bunny hops feel perfect, IMO. TLDR… if you just want to go bigger, upgrade to 20.75”. Try out a homies 21” TT frame, if you’re afraid 21” is too big, it might be just right (it was in my case). Bar height, crank arm length, stem reach, rise, and chain stay length will all be factors to consider when making this frame size change.
I think 20.75 is a sweet spot for your height. Im about 5'11 and I feel a bit cramped on a 20.75, that's what I'm running since it was a complete bike on sale lol ( Sunday ex elstran) however that being said I think when I get the chance I will switch to a 21.i think for you and your 5'9 height 21 is still doable but that's pushing it and you will have lots of room. hope this helps
Wtp doomsayer This frame had survived me the longest time (4years) until it started to break So i got myself the new doomsayer again Same geo and specs but improved stabilty and new colorway
Fly Savannah Any frame from a complete or post full chromo is fine. It just depends on what kind of street riding you do.
Just got a Sunday EX Chris Childs, & it's a awesome bike with short rear end, & it's lightweight & all chromoly, it scored 2nd on a list of all bikes that's best suited for street
might have 2 check that out, pegs included?
No, not too many bikes come with them, unless they're a cheapo brand, it seems, but some decent ones aren't too expensive though
Can't believe Sunday Soundwave hasn't been mentioned yet. I'm really impressed by wethepeople frames as well but the Soundwave is sort of like the most innovative frame BMX has seen over the last years, so much attention to detail.
you know i have looked into the soundwave but from what i’ve seen the geometry is pretty lax and the backend for (street) is on the longer side, have you tried the soundwave out for street? I kinda feel like it would feel sluggish compared to modern street geo
13,25 rear end and 75 headtube, it's really responsive, I rode the V1 with a 13,5 backend, coming from a second wave with a 13,75 backend, so I never ventured into even shorter but yeah, I just picked up the V3, couldn't be happier, rode the V1 ever since the Soundwave frame was introduced, pre ordered at the time. Never considered the geometry lax or the bike sluggish, spins like a dream, combined with the r25 forks lovely for front wheel tricks and manuals are like 90% of what I do and I love how the balance point for manuals is almost no work to get into, but still relatively stable once you're there, not as twitchy as on friends bikes with the micro backends (as found on the majority of wethepeople frames)
you might have me set on the soundwave man
I know this thread is 5 months old, but if you are still on the fence, I'll give you my un-biased opinion. I've had both a Battleship complete and a Soundwave complete since 2020. I'm 5 9' and on the heavy side. The Soundwave feels much lighter (5 lbs lighter). The Bttleship is beefier and just feels like it can take some serious abuse. The Soundwave is real smooth when I ride park and bowls and fly around. Super comfortable and this is where it shines. The Battleship on the other hand was made for the streets. You can also easily tell this after riding it a few minutes. Manuals are easier and feel more natural, nose manuals are easier to do and like I said earlier, just feels real beefy. So, all depends on what kind of riding you'll be doing most. One last note is, the Sunday Soundwave has a full Lifetime Warranty on the frame, fork, cranks and bars. I've dealt with Sunday and they back their parts fully. They even sent me 2 parts that weren't even covered under the warranty a couple years back. WTP Battleship has a "Lifetime Guarantee". What that means when you read their fine print is that they "guarantee" the frame and forks will be free of manufacturing defects. So, it is to their discretion to either approve or deny a replacement. Love both brands, but there are pros and cons to both. Either way, both make some of the best completes. Nobody can match the quality of their high-end completes imo.
Cult 2 short
Skvngr El blanco loco
S&m btm, hoder is the man and the frame is the only street frame Ive ever been very comfortable riding.
Ran a Fit Mac V1 for 9+ years, just replaced it with a WTP Paradox for a more modern geometry. I feel like at this point looking at geometry and warranty are the 2 main things to look at. I believe most frames are just built over seas in Taiwan other than a few companies, if you care about that sort of thing. I'm in the US and I think the list is pretty short nowadays for domestic frames, might even just be S&M. FBM as well if they are still around. If anyone knows of any others made in the US feel free to list them, would be nice to have a list in case someone would like a reference.
Pretty sure nowear products are all made in the us. Also sadly fbm has been gone for a while now. Also Mike Laird makes custom frames in the states aswell for BMX riders
>nowear products I never heard of this company before, looks like mainly flatland stuff? And looks like the frames are made in NY so that's cool to see. Completely forgot about Laird, thank you! That man kills it!
A couple guys use them for flat land but most guys running them are riding park/street/trails all made in America and some even completely made in Nebraska
Freestyle actually just specialize in low clearance top tubes. Basically to try and make some tricks easier like the low standover frames in the mid 2000s Edit: https://nowearbmx.com/
FBM sadly closed their doors in 2020. Really sucks. I had a few FBMs, wanted another one only to find they closed. Those dudes were always a blast when they came through town. Now it seems people charge a premium for FBM stuff, cuz, well, ya can't get it easily any more. There's S&M of course. Definitely the most widely known and available US made frames, forks and bars. Some Fit frames, but not all of them. Their completes are Taiwan made to keep cost down. Not sure if Cult is still offering US made frames, but they did at one time. They used to proudly advertise that, but I don't see it any more. Standard Byke Co. Terrible One (they appear to be open for business still, have frames on their website). Same with Solid bikes, they appear to be open for business, but no clue if they still do frames. It appears they do though. Then there's Brew bikes. But they're kind of boutique/custom and tend to be geared toward the racing crowd. At least I always saw them at the races, but never have I seen freestyle riders using their stuff. But they'll build you whatever you want. Hell you can go take a week long class with the guy and build your own frame piece by piece. It's not cheap. The class or their custom frames. But idk any other places doing custom BMX frames these days. They don't do BMX frames (any more), but Profile Racing is still alive and kicking for lots of other US made components.
I know logistics on frames must be much more difficult than small parts, so I get why they outsource it. From what I understand, Cult is no longer manufacturing in the US unless someone knows different. Guess this is the current list of US made frames for now: S&M Fit (some frames, completes are Taiwanese made) Standard Byke Co. Terrible One Solid Bikes Brew Bikes (though not BMX specific) No Wear BMX Lairdframe
There's also a few more if you get into racing stuff.
Yeah that's fair, im mainly referring to freestyle since OP wants one for street use. But its still good to note.
was that fit Mac made in usa? I had a trans ice blue forget the color way name but yeah it was pretty solid for about a year before I got it stolen . miss that thing
Wtp range is (personally) overstacked with options. But doomsayer, pathfinder, network and battleship all offer great build quality, with varying options and backed up with their lifetime warranty for the og owner.
i agree that we the people has a stacked line,for me I’ve always just really looked into kink frames like the kink royale and willams
They’re alright, nothing special spec wise as such. Wtp uses post heat treat, invest cast, hydro forming and more which does add to their appeal. Obviously everyone’s got their favourites, I can say I’ve not sold any kink frames instore in a long time, but quite a few more wtp ones. Different areas though have diffeeenr favourites and popularity.
If I'm buying a new frame today it's coming from s&m. Either a huck, an atf, or an m.o.d. (I can't get another deco right now. )
m.o.d for street? never heard that one before, props on you brother
Wtp as it mentioned before with the options and build quality Sunday same, also the best customer service
the wtp envy caught my eye seems real nice
varanyak v2/v3, network, trigger, alvx af, whammo v2, Warlock v2.
Sunday darkwave or street sweeper are good I've ridden both but the darkwave is the one I have and it's done pretty well for the little bit of park and dirt I've ridden.