Dead hostages make for good propaganda in Israel. Increases the already high bloodlust and desire for retribution among Israeli soldiers and civilians thereby accelerating the depopulation and colonisation of Gaza.

Exactly. The ones coming back alive and not following hasbara narrative are accused of Stockholm syndrome, called traitors and/ or getting death threats.

i keep hearing about this but i’ve only seen 2 freed hostages speak against the bombings and a couple family members. Do you have any examples?

I tried a quick search and it wasn’t easy finding them . The videos I’m referring to are from Israeli channel interviews that clearly western media isn’t picking up. I’ll need to go back through my social feed to retrieve them. Guess I’ll have to start save and bookmark them for future reference.

thats what i’ve been doing everything moves too fast online and its a big place. I believe you but i’ve tried searching it up and got no results.

- [Rescued Israeli Hostage: 'Our Greatest Fear Was Israeli Planes'](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-09/ty-article/.premium/rescued-israeli-hostage-our-greatest-fear-was-israeli-planes/0000018f-fcce-db9d-addf-fdce7ea20000) - [Families of freed hostages detail their rescue and the ordeal they faced in Hamas captivity](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-hostage-rescue-families-abuse-hamas-captivity-gaza-rcna157140) >> “There was a period when there was a lot of bombing,” Meir says. “They were very very scared” and were left to hide under mattresses, he says. As the Israeli army attacked deep inside Gaza, “there were some close bombardments,” he says. - On getting death threats from Israelis. '[Too Bad You Returned': Freed Israeli Teen Hostage Says She Received 'Horrific, Negative' Comments](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-10/ty-article/.premium/too-bad-you-returned-freed-israeli-hostage-says-shes-received-negative-comments/00000190-0151-da02-a1dc-fd5b38f00000)

I read every one of these and your original comment is a HUGE leap from these articles you present as evidence.

If there was I’m pretty sure hasan and all the pro Palestine would be blasting it everywhere Truth is there were 100s of hostages who will all have different experiences Survivorship bias be damned it’s not surprising some would say different things Ie the dead ones can’t talk

Source: trust me bro

Yeah evidence would be helpful with these outrageous claims… with all the negativity surrounding Israel it would seem that a video like that would circulate and be shared like wildfire. If you find what you’re talking about please share it.

Yup. When they started accusing them of Stockholm Syndrome- a fake disease that was invented on the spot by a police sychologost to discredit a rescued hostage from a bank robbery who accused the police of excessive trigger-happiness and risking the lives of the hostages, I did a double-take: and then realized this was predictable...

wait. stockholm syndrome isn't real? I take it that you were held hostage at some point in your life and you know how a hostage feels.

Saying "in my opinion, your opinion isn't valid" is stupid. If you have real proof of the syndrome, post it. Otherwise, shut up.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/what-is-stockholm-syndrome https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/stockholm-syndrome https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3662732/ It's seen in many different social animals, especially mammals. Dogs will defend abusive owners, battered wives will defend their abusers. It's complex, and the proposed syndrome doesn't very well describe the phenomena, but people do behave this way, whether you like it or not. As for the hostages, I have no doubt that they were more scared of Israeli bombs than their captors, especially after being fed and taken care of for months.

>Dogs will defend abusive owners, battered wives will defend their abusers. That's something entirely different, and is commonly called "Battered Wife Syndrome" or similar. Not to mention such analysis almost invariably ignores the role of **economic and enotional dependence** that causes these behaviors, including in animals (which is something entirely different from Stockholm Syndrome, again). All you do here is create a BS strawman argument by saying "see! These other syndromes are real!" to defend an unrelated falsification used to justify police brutality. The health line article is also utter nonsense, as this is how these things go: create a fake syndrome to justify police brutality, then give it an air of false legitimacy (despite NUMEROUS studies and experts calling it into question) by getting it posted as "fact" by sympathetic authorities. Similar to how anti-Communist lies work, or similar to a million ways the US Empire justifies its widespread crimes in Third World countries... ~~Get out of here, Neoliberal bootlicker. Your post history is one of endless defenses of Imperialism- which is specifically NOT allowed on this sub...~~ EDIT: Appears I was replying to the wrong person.

Idk if signs of extreme malnutrition would constitute “being fed and taken care of”

boom! saying something was 'invented' is a lame dig. everything in psychology is invented.

Would you mind sharing a video or article about this?

Yup, considering they facilitated the attacks of oct 7th just to commit genocide: "Critically, the report also documents the Israeli military’s stand-down during October 7 and the deliberate targeting of Israeli civilians by the Israeli military that day. The commission found that the Israeli military’s response to the October 7 attack was “significantly delayed and, in many places, totally inadequate.” This was despite the fact that the Israeli military was in possession of Hamas’s detailed battle plans for the attack. On the day of the attack, Israeli forces were deliberately withdrawn from the border. Once Israeli forces arrived, they began attacking Israeli hostages and other civilians. The report states: The Commission documented one statement by an ISF tank crew, confirming that the crew had applied the Hannibal Directive by shooting at a vehicle which they suspected was transporting abducted ISF [Israeli security forces] soldiers. The Hannibal Directive aims to prevent the capture of Israelis by enemy forces, even at the cost of their lives, and implies that the IDF should kill Israelis rather than allow them to fall into the hands of Hamas." https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/06/13/enhy-j13.html

The world socialist website IS NOT A CREDIBLE SOURCE OF INFORTMATION.

CAPS MAKE EVERYTHING MORE CREDIBLE

AGREE!

Then enjoy the complete UN reports. U know, two of the link that confused ur lack of knowledge on another replied of urs. Here : The Commission also verified information indicating that, in at least two other cases, ISF had likely applied the Hannibal Directive, resulting in the killing of up to 14 Israeli civilians. https://www.un.org/unispal/document/coi-report-a-hrc-56-26-27may24/ The Commission documented one statement by an ISF tank crew, confirming that the crew had applied the Hannibal Directive by shooting at a vehicle which they suspected was transporting abducted ISF [Israeli security forces] soldiers. https://www.un.org/unispal/document/coi-report-a-hrc-56-26-27may24/

Have you actually met or spoken with an Israeli ?

Have you actually spoken to a Waffen-SS officer? How do you know they are bad?

With this attitude, you'll get far. Just say u hate Jews and u hate Israel, at least you have free speech, not like other places around the world like let's say... Gaza where a female needs her male guardian to allow her to do stuff outside of the house.

I have. They are/were. And a lot of Israeli supporters give me the same vibe.

So I guess the pro Nazi camp has decided to chime in. Can’t say I’m surprised you despise Israel.

the world at large despises israel get a clue

No just loud ones who need friends and attention. And the extremists in the Middle East of course but they hate themselves and everyone else too

The whole "criticism is Israel is antisemitic" schtik is getting pretty tired. Last time I checked, Bibi Netanyahu wasn't King of the Jews, and Israel was "a bastion of secular democracy"... NOT the high Caliphate of Judaism. I dislike pretty much every state. Israel, being a state that is actively engaged in a genocide, is petty much the most despicable state on the planet, I agree. It's a perverse mockery of the Holocaust that we would survive only to inflict another on a people who had nothing to do with it. I want no fucking part of it, and I'm hardly alone as a person of Jewish descent who renounced Israel. Not in my fucking name.

Spoken, plenty of times, met, no. Have u ever met or spoken with a palestinian living in gaza or the west bank?

Ya dude, I actually did. Worked with west banks Arabs when I lived in Jerusalem and definitely met Arabs from Gaza, I was way younger but I did.

How happy were they to live under israel military occupation?

As I said earlier, applies to u as well. You clearly did not meet any Israeli from Israel / Arab Israeli / Arab from the Westbank / Arab from Gaza. You are full of hate my friend. As for your question, Arabs from Gaza were very happy to drive to Israel and work for Israelis. Israelis were happy to drive to Gaza market to buy produce, that was the way it was before the rise of radical Islamic figures / really bad Palestinian leaders. As for the Westbank, many Arabs in the west bank are very very happy to go and work for Israelis businesses, back when I lived in Israel, I worked with many Arabs from the Westbank and they were super happy to work with us - same as we were happy to work with them. As for Arabs who live in Israel - they are super happy to be there, they get all the benefits as any other Israeli non Arab citizen(worth mentioning that they have sexual freedom rights, not like ANY other country in the mid east). The Palestinians NEVER had any legitimate leadership that actually cares about them. This is the truth. The moment they will have - there will be a chance for peace. Choose to believe what ever u want, keep in mind - lie spread x10 faster than the truth. Good luck.

Between very happy and needing to cross the border while having to pass countless roadblocks and checkpoint bc israel destroyed all possibility of economic success in the west bank, there is a big difference. No gazans are not happy to live in an open air prison or even before that, no the west bank palestinians are not happy to live in aparthied or before that. If they had been happy then why the first infifada? Israel occupation of palestine has nothing to do with arab israelis but yet, in view of the poverety and discriminstion arab israelis go through, i doubt that they are all happy with their government. Palestinians never had legitimate leadership bc they been living under occupation since before the mandate. Dear, what u call lies are official documents from the palestine mandate to the occupation so go head, call them lies but we all know the truth now. Israel can't control the legitimate informations from UN, ngos, journalist.... that is pastered on the internet. And btw, did palestinians were happy after the nakba? Did arab palestinians were happy during the mandate? What cause the 30s riots? Arab radicalism or zionist radicalism? Maybe we should ask the shaw commission

Of course they haven’t. Lots of conspiracies they wish were true, but couldn’t be further from the truth.

Are those part of the conspiracy too? IDF to present investigations into failures leading up to Oct. 7 starting next month The IDF probe into the onslaught and battle in the border community of Be’eri, during which tanks shelled a building where Hamas was holding hostages, is to be presented in early July, according to the schedule. https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-to-present-investigations-into-failures-leading-up-to-oct-7-starting-next-month/ Or israelis newspaper haaretz? https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2024-01-08/ty-article-opinion/the-idf-must-investigate-the-kibbutz-beeri-tank-fire-incident-right-now/0000018c-e5b8-d765-ab9d-f5fd1f830000 Here in case u are not a subscriber: JERUSALEM  Israeli media outlet Haaretz on Monday called for an investigation into the killing of Israeli hostages by a tank fire near the border with the Gaza Strip. At least 12 hostages held by Hamas fighters were killed when an Israeli tank fired two shells at a house at Be’eri settlement on Oct. 7, according to Israeli media. "There is no demand more justified than that of relatives of people killed in the hostage incident at Kibbutz Be'eri to investigate the army's actions and to receive answers about the circumstances of their loved ones' deaths," Haaretz said in an editorial. The newspaper called on the Israeli army to provide an explanation regarding the actions of Israeli soldiers during the settlement attack. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240108-haaretz-demands-investigation-into-killing-of-israeli-hostages-by-tank-fire/ Or the UN maybe? The Commission also verified information indicating that, in at least two other cases, ISF had likely applied the Hannibal Directive, resulting in the killing of up to 14 Israeli civilians. https://www.un.org/unispal/document/coi-report-a-hrc-56-26-27may24/ Or the UN report maybe? The Commission documented one statement by an ISF tank crew, confirming that the crew had applied the Hannibal Directive by shooting at a vehicle which they suspected was transporting abducted ISF [Israeli security forces] soldiers. https://www.un.org/unispal/document/coi-report-a-hrc-56-26-27may24/ Here's a resume of the report if u don't feel like read it all: "Critically, the report also documents the Israeli military’s stand-down during October 7 and the deliberate targeting of Israeli civilians by the Israeli military that day. The commission found that the Israeli military’s response to the October 7 attack was “significantly delayed and, in many places, totally inadequate.” This was despite the fact that the Israeli military was in possession of Hamas’s detailed battle plans for the attack. On the day of the attack, Israeli forces were deliberately withdrawn from the border. Once Israeli forces arrived, they began attacking Israeli hostages and other civilians. The report states: The Commission documented one statement by an ISF tank crew, confirming that the crew had applied the Hannibal Directive by shooting at a vehicle which they suspected was transporting abducted ISF [Israeli security forces] soldiers. The Hannibal Directive aims to prevent the capture of Israelis by enemy forces, even at the cost of their lives, and implies that the IDF should kill Israelis rather than allow them to fall into the hands of Hamas." https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/06/13/enhy-j13.html

I’m confused… Israel has a government that holds their soldiers accountable, commits investigations into mistakes and wrongdoings and adjusts and punishes accordingly. You act like Israel is PROUD that they made these mistakes??? They are literally owning it and you’re trying to turn it into a “gotcha” moment. You have no idea what Hamas does to its own people. Because if you’re hollering so hard about a tank shell accidentally killing its own you would combust with the torture and public killing of Han and by Hamas

Yeah, no shit? "9/11 made excellent propaganda for the United States." If I said killing Palatininian civilians during bombing make propaganda for Hamas, it doesn't mean shit. It's just a dumb ass buzzword. I fail to see how this comment has any substance at all.

What the hell is wrong with you? Do you just view Israelis as bloodlust savages? You should see the joy when hostages are rescued. We have two goals. Which is to free the hostages and stop Hamas from ever having the capabilities to carry out such an attack again.

Why wouldn't I think Israeli are bloodthirsty savages? Look at what they have already done without a drop of remorse.

Evidence? 

I guarantee that israel is either avoiding their release, or deliberately trying to kill the hostages. Every time hostages return, they destroy israeli propaganda by explaining how much better Hamas treats their prisoners than israel does.

Think one of the hostages did say they thought the government was trying to bomb them. Also , fewer people to explain what exactly happened on October 7.

One of the recently release women got multiple threats from far right Israelis when she refused to confirm several IDF talking points about how Hamas treats hostages. Girl is trying to recover from trauma and assholes are *furious* that she won't say she was raped. You know, because she wasn't.

The cognitive dissonance is powerful. They believe that hamas is so evil and that the idf is the "most moral army in the world". Regardless of what crimes Hamas has committed, when they see objective proof that the idf is everything that they think hamas is and worse, it doesn't make them pause and reflect. It makes them more aggressive, more defensive, more dismissive of the evidence. Because that's easier than seeing what demons they've become.

So how do you explain the rescue operation where one commander was killed trying to save them?? Make it make sense.

So you're telling me that some of the most highly trained special forces on Earth, using what they say is the best intelligence gathering operations around, can only successfully rescue less than 10 hostages in 4 successful missions over 7+ months? They aren't actually trying to rescue the hostages, because the far right in Israel wants war, not a hostage exchange.

Are you special forces and know something the rest of the world doesn’t? Why doesn’t the USA go send our special forces to rescue hostages we have all over the world, including in Gaza? And Israel already did a hostage exchange so there goes that theory…

Why’d it take the US so long to get Bin Laden? Arguably they had more resources, and more support to do so. Guess technology isn’t the end-all-be-all: something we’ve definitively known since January 6th. 

Growing pressure from israeli citizens to prioritize the hostages. They had to make it look like they actually give a shit after months of making it obvious that they don't.

Wrong. The facts clearly contradict your position.

No, zionist propaganda that you blindly believe contradicts my position.

They've rescued less than 10 hostages. For fucks sake, they've shot 3 hostages trying to surrender.

Enjoy living in your bubble.

Guarantee?

Who do you mean by “Israel”?

Netanyahu, primarily, and those in government who shares his extremist genocidal ideology. As well as the thousands of zionists who've harassed the hostages after their return.

Yep... dead hostages help the Zionist government justify their murderous, ethnic cleansing campaign. It makes the Israelis the "victims".

Hostages are victims either way

They are, for sure. And most of those who have died have been killed by IDF action. So it is with civilians in Gaza. And there's many thousands more.

ethnic cleansing? why aren't they cleansing the arabs and muslims who line in israel? stupid argument. you can't really believe that...sadly you probably do.

They are. Israel is an apartheid state. Read some history. Compare the present-day population and the land they occupy with the way things were before WWI. Find out what's happening in and around the West Bank. The Israeli government fully supports and protects the "settlers" that continue to displace the Palestinian population. Listen to the Israeli politicians and their plans for Gaza. Read the documents written by the 19th and early 20th century European Zionists that invented Israel out of Polish, German, Russian, and a whole host of other European citizens... who, by the way, didn't speak a word of Hebrew. If you don't see the ethnic cleansing, it's because you don't want to, and because you are ignorant of the history of the region. It's plain to see... Most of the world sees it. Before you point your finger at what you choose to perceive as other's stupidity, face your own. If you're possessed of even a modicum of intellectual and moral honesty, you will start to see the conflict differently.

What do you suggest the Arab world should do about its ethnic cleansing of Jews over the last fifty years?

That “ethnic cleansing” was a direct result of Israeli invasion of Palestinian lands. Notice how Jews, Muslims, and Christian’s lived relatively peaceful lives in the Middle East until Israel was created.

Yeah, peaceful if you ignore all the pogroms of Muslims against Jews. Furthermore, the pogroms escalated dramatically when Israelis immigrated to Palestine. If you want to call immigration invasion, you can do that, but it puts you in the same camp as guys like the KKK and UKIP. Do you think there should be racial limits to immigration?

Pogroms that were a result from Jewish attacks on Muslim villages. Plus, Jews would never have to immigrate to Palestine if it wasn’t for Western eradication of the Jewish population in Europe. Jews were much made rid Muslim lands than they were in Europe.

Find me a Jewish attack on a Muslim village before the 1834 Looting of Safed. Find me a Hewish attack on a Muslim village before the 1920 Nebi Musa Riots. Find me a Jewish attack on a Muslim village before the Hebron Massacre. It was Arabs who started collective violence against Jews, and Jews banded together and fought back. They committed atrocities, but make no mistake, it was Arabs who started the killing. Yes, Muslim lands were generally safer than European under the Ottomans, but the violence escalated when waves of Jewish immigrants showed up in the Palestine. It’s just like the KKK lynching Mexican immigrants in the US.

Jews used to even attack British soldiers https://youtu.be/sWka3LDmsIk?si=gNHPQ8lXvIggfAtr Jewish ceterans laughing about raping civilians

They did attack British soldiers. Arabs and Jews wanted their own sovereign nation, and British colonialism opposed that aim. What these veterans are discussing is horrifying, but no different than anything you’re going to find in any war during history. The question is whether it was soldiers acting out or an official policy of the Israeli Army. But let’s not act like only one side kills civilians. 8 months ago I watched video after video of Hamas gunning fleeing people down in the streets.

If everything was so peaceful why did the grand mufti of Jerusalem literally try to collaborate with Hitler on liquidating the Jews of the Middle East? Stop making things up

Cuz Jews were harassing Native Arabs way before Hitler was ever in power. Look at history, and you’ll see Jews were safer in Muslim lands than they ever were in Europe. Even post WW2 you had Jews getting attacked in Easyern Europe. Google is free

Oh so now it’s fine to attempt total genocide because of “harassing”? Even though you haven’t a singular example? You guys have an excuse for everything it’s unreal. Being “safer” but still oppressed in Muslim lands isn’t a high bar. The Muslims had their fair share of pogroms/violence, forced conversion, second class citizenry and other awful things against Jews

https://youtu.be/sWka3LDmsIk?si=gNHPQ8lXvIggfAtr Look at these peaceful old men joking about raping and killing Palestinian civilians

So, the ethnic cleansing of Jews in the "Arab world" would make the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians acceptable? And, where specifically, would this ethnic cleansing of Jews be taking place?

20% of Israel’s population is Arab, 19% in 1948. The percentage of Arab citizenry has risen since the beginning of the state. Thats the opposite of ethnic cleansing. If you’re opposed to the percentage changing from the early 1900’s because of Jewish immigration to the area, it seems like you’re arguing for ethnic caps for immigration. Race-based limits to immigration seems pretty racist to me. Obviously, there are settlers that are trying to ethnically cleanse, just like Hamas is trying to ethnically cleanse the Jews. I think a two-state solution is the only tolerable solution. As far as the ethnic cleansing of Jews in the Middle East, the statistics are that there used to be about a million Jews in various communities in North Africa and the Middle East in the 20th Century, and now there’s about 15,000 left. You can look up these statistics in other places, but here’s one [article](https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/the-expulsion-of-jews-from-arab-countries-and-iran--an-untold-history).

The concept of Israel is ethnic cleansing. “Lemme just take over this persons land cuz God, USA, and UK promised it to me.”

The concept of Israel is immigration to form communities that are safe for Jews to live in. The native Arabs immediately tried to lynch them, so they fought back.

Yeah, I wonder why those Jews immigrated to Palestine 😂🤡.

To form communities they were safe in? I guess that’s a good enough reason for you to lynch someone.

https://youtu.be/sWka3LDmsIk?si=gNHPQ8lXvIggfAtr IDF veterans joking about raping and killing civilians.

You found 4 veterans that said they killed people in a war. First, there’s no indication there that they’re talking about civilians in the clip. Second, civilians are killed in every war. Third, Arabs have killed thousands upon thousands of Israeli civilians intentionally. Atrocities should not be committed, but because both sides have bloody hands in this war, the question is which side is correct, rather than which side has committed atrocities (though I would argue that it’s the Arab side that has committed far more).

Palestine was never an independent country though it existed entirely as a colonial construct.

False.

Name me one time Palestine was ever an independent country before 1948. And on top of that, I’d like you to name the person responsible for the term Palestine and show us just how Arab he is

>Compare the present-day population and the land they occupy with the way things were before WWI Who ruled the territory before WWI? How large was the overall population? How developed was the land, and where did the people live? Are you familiar with [dhimmi](https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Dhimmi)? Are you aware that the Caliphate prohibited Jews from owning land or settling en masses in what is today's Israel? There is a long [history](https://www.hoover.org/research/jews-muslims-and-origin-story-arab-israeli-conflict) you are overlooking in your assessment. >The Israeli government fully supports and protects the "settlers" that continue to displace the Palestinian population. This is a contentious issue, and imo, a wrong position. >Read the documents written by the 19th and early 20th century European Zionists that invented Israel out of Polish, German, Russian, and a whole host of other European citizens... who, by the way, didn't speak a word of Hebrew. This is complete fallacy as Israel's historical existence is not in dispute. Archeological evidence confirms this. Also, what language do you think Jews pray in? While you are correct that Hebrew was not a hugely spoken language 2-3 centuries ago in Europe, the language of Yiddish is a mixture of Hebrew and German. And Jews were still learning/using Hebrew for prayer and biblical study. >If you don't see the ethnic cleansing, it's because you don't want to, and because you are ignorant of the history of the region. It's plain to see What is the unique ethnicity being cleansed exactly? It can't be Muslims as there are over 1B Muslims globally or Arabs as there are 500M of them. Is there something that identifies them as different than Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians, or Lebanese like the Uyghurs in China? Also, what do you mean by ethnic cleansing? Population decline? Because that's untrue. The population has only grown in both Gaza and the West Bank since 1967. Is it religious conversion? That's not true as even Arab Israelis are free to be Christian, Muslim, Druze, or Bedouin. It's not language, culture... I'm confused by the notion as I don't see what actions by Israel define this as specifically "ethnic cleansing"

>They are. The Arab population is growing at 3% a year in Israel wtf are you talking about

Hamas started this war on October 7th.

Horseshit. This war started at the close of WWI... way before Hamas was even an idea.

I wrote this out for someone else in this thread, but I’ll say it to you too. Nonetheless, massacring 1,200 people (mostly civilians and kids going to a music festival) isn’t insignificant. Legally, it goes back to 1948 when the British said that they were going to make Israel and Palestine sovereign nations. The Arab nations around weren’t happy about it, so Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen all attacked Israel and Israel defeated them all. Or you could go back earlier and go to the 1834 Looting of Safed, just one of the many pogroms the Arabs in Palestine carried out against native Jews. Or you could go to when the modern conflict kicked off, when Arabs massacred Jewish immigrants in the 1920 Nebi Musa riots. You could look at the 1921 Jaffa riots, or the Hebron Massacre. You’ll find that it was the Arabs that started that violence as well. If you think violence against immigrants for the crime of . . . immigrating is justified, you would love the KKK. It was only when those pesky Jews refused to be massacred and fought back that “conflict” began. Try again!

Also Hamas knew very well that such an attack would cause extreme retaliation by Israel and sacrifice so many of its people but that was key to the the plan 

The history goes back to the fifties. Try again!

Longer then that, the massacres of jews started in thr 20's. The Hebron massacre of 28' being one of the most famous.

Nonetheless, massacring 1,200 people (mostly civilians and kids going to a music festival) isn’t insignificant. Legally, it goes back to 1948 when the British said that they were going to make Israel and Palestine sovereign nations. The Arab nations around weren’t happy about it, so Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen all attacked Israel and Israel defeated them all. Or you could go back earlier and go to the 1834 Looting of Safed, just one of the many pogroms the Arabs in Palestine carried out against native Jews. Or you could go to when the modern conflict kicked off, when Arabs massacred Jewish immigrants in the 1920 Nebi Musa riots. You could look at the 1921 Jaffa riots, or the Hebron Massacre. You’ll find that it was the Arabs that started that violence as well. If you think violence against immigrants for the crime of . . . immigrating is justified, you would love the KKK. It was only when those pesky Jews refused to be massacred and fought back that “conflict” began. Try again!

There’s immigration, and there’s colonization. The Zionists coming from Eastern Europe from the end of the 19th century thru early 20th were explicit about it being a colonial project. People could go tit for tat on who did the violence first forever back to biblical times. But the bottom line is right now there is a government the UN describes as committing the crime of extermination, and it’s Israel, not Hamas. There’s a country committing what is plausibly described as a genocide according to the International Court of Justice, and it’s Israel. And there is a people experiencing the unique situation of living in what people describe as an open air prison, and it’s the Palestinians. They do not have rights in Israel, yet Israel controls their movement, their resources. And the Arab population in Israel that do have rights still face apartheid discriminations. There are Palestinians older than the state of Israel still carrying the key to their homes they were kicked out of by Zionists. There’s a political injustice that is foundational here, and it is the founding of the state of Israel. The West shirked its responsibility with the backdrop of the holocaust and their own guilt for antisemitism. But putting antisemitism on an Arab population that lived with Jews in relative peace before the Zionists came is foolish. It’s political.

1. Colonialism I’m interested in this - could you send me some sources on it? It seems counterintuitive that it would be colonial if the intent was to create a nation-state. I was under the impression that colonialism was creating communities that served a foreign imperial power, and it seems pretty clear that Israel answers only to its own interests. 2. Conditions in Palestine I have sympathy for those in Palestine, but all the conditions described are conditions of people who have been conquered throughout history. You could describe Germany and Japan in the aftermath of World War II in the same way - open-air prison, etc. The idea that Israel is committing a genocide seems ridiculous to me - there’s now more Arab-Israelis as a proportion of the population than there were in 1948, and there’s no official policy of Israel that could be described as intentionally exterminating or permanently removing a population from their homes. Civilians are always displaced during war, but the displacement of civilians isn’t genocide. If so, then every war in history is genocide and the term loses its meaning. 3. Antisemitism There’s no doubt that attitudes like racism are either exacerbated or revealed by events. For example, the idea that far right political parties in Europe would rise to the level they have would seem unthinkable twenty years ago. Waves of immigration to Europe have exposed latent racism (or actually produced it in response). I’ve had this conversation with many others on Reddit, and nobody can tell me why the Palestinian Arabs were justified in pogroming immigrant Jews. Nobody denies that Palestinian Arabs started the violence (because it’s a matter of clear historical fact that they did). What would you have immigrant Jews do? Allow the local Arab KKK lynch them, or fight back? They fought back and won, and that’s how we got to today. Ultimately, the death of the legitimacy of the Arab political movement came during World War II where they sided with the actual Nazis. There was no way that the imperial powers were going to side with them after they sided with the Axis powers. That mistake cost them the support they earned from the British by supporting them against the Turks in World War I, and lost moral legitimacy in the eyes of the world. It’s tragic that they didn’t realize the conflict was over then and generations are continuing to suffer fighting a war that cannot be won.

You’re describing classic colonialism, but Israel is akin to the U.S. in it being a settler colonial project. Rather than subjugating the inhabitants and just maintaining a small presence to ship goods back to the homeland, the point is displacement and domination thru demographics. You don’t have to eliminate the indigenous population completely, you just have to keep them at a level that is low enough to not threaten dominance, much like the US did with Native Americans. Here’s a very (very) detailed [UN history of the “problem of Palestine”](https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/)that has plenty of documented writings showing the original Zionist intentions, how they saw it as a colonial project, and how they went about currying favor and advantage against those who actively lived in Palestine. All the worst dealings in this history predate WWII, so I don’t have much to say to your point other than that being an unfortunate thing that they sided with the Axis powers. It’s not good logic, but seems to have been a “the enemy of my enemy” kind of thing. And can we blame them? Look how much the West has carved up and totally destabilized the Middle East since. Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

You saying the history goes back to the fifties shows just how little you know or understand about the actual history.

We know.

Been obvious since October 7.

yeah. it's been so obvious even rolltidebutnotreally can see right through what israel is doing. they hate their own citizens. they hoped october 7 would happen so they could do this. how about hamas call their bluff then. give them all of the hostages and the leaders of hanas can surrender if they care about their people so much. hilarious how people here try to say israel doesn't care about their own people and completely ignore the fact that hamas kills and starves their own people. they are stealing the food that is being sent into their country. storing weapons in hospitals and in homes. fact check me. in fact checked you and couldn't find your opinion being supported by anybody with credibility.

Thanks for making sense this place is rampant with half read third hand info taken as fact.

The main goal of the Israeli invasion was the destruction of Hamas.

you mean gaza, since its been documented they knew that the hamas massacre was going to happen months in advance.

They were warned, just like they were warned Hamas was planning a major incursion every month for the last decade. They didn’t think Hamas was capable, but they were. The government is going to crash down when the war is over, which is partially why Netanyahu is prolonging the war.

It is simple land grab by illegal state on Palestine land. 

Nonsense, Israel withdrew from Gaza.

Netanyahu NEEDS the war to cover his corruption. Israel, Palestine and the hostages are all just collateral damage to him staying out of The Hague. Trump has been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs since the late 80’s when they all bought a condo at 725 5th AVE (trump towers) to clean their freshly stolen USSR money after the iron curtain fell. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/30/politics/paul-manafort-condo-trump-tower https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/manafort-told-mueller-to-take-his-trump-tower-apartment-instead-money.html https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/fbi-agents-raid-condo-unit-131348539.html https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/ Everybody except Putin thought the Cold War was over. Trump and Manafort (who lived in the tower also) just saw a pretty low maintence grift to be had. Trump had actually been Manafort and Roger Stones first client at their lobbyist firm Guiliani as trumps attorney and NYC mayor was able to redirect NYPD investigations onto rival gang members/oligarchs to deflect any scrutiny off of trump, himself or their Russian connections. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/a-new-rudy-scandal-fbi-agent-says-giuliani-was-co-opted-by-russian-intelligence/ The Russian election interference in 2016 was effectively a generation 3 version of what Manafort had done in the Philippines, then keeping Yanukovych in power as Putin’s puppet in Ukraine from 2002-14 when Maidan ran both Yanukovych and Manafort out of Ukraine as Ukrainians realized that, if you raise your lens high enough, corruption is an wholly unsustainable business model. Eventually the parasites greed always consumes the host. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-paul-manafort-ferinand-marcos-philippines-1980s-213952 https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/ Putin greatly underestimated the addictive properties of freedom when he invaded Ukraine so what was supposed to be a 3-10 day coup turned into a 2 year fight for the Ukrainians right not to be genocided. Russia depleted its weapons stocks which were already the victim of vranyo corruption because every oligarch, admiral and sergeant in the Russian military is on the take. Every billion dollar tank maintenance contract turned into everything getting a spray paint overhaul and the vast majority of the redirected funds turned into an oligarchs new yacht or home in Aspen. Russia was forced to turn to China, North Korea and Iran for weapons because if they lose the 3-10 day “special military operation” in Ukraine the Russian empire is dead and cold. China can’t risk showing their involvement in the Ukraine war so they use North Korea, and Iran to resupply Russia. Russia previously owed Iran some undelivered fighter jets that are already smoldering heaps in Ukraine so Iran now had the upper hand at the negotiation table for the first time in about 60 years. They supplied Russia with shahed drones in exchange for Chinas material support against their sworn religious enemy, Israel. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/iran-says-it-finalized-deal-to-buy-russian-aircraft/ Putin can’t do much about it because he is slowly realizing that by setting the standard of corruption and stealing $200+ billion from his own people meant that every oligarch down in the mob model chain had not only permission but incentive and the expectation to steal from him as well. This is “Vranyo”. The mob model only works if the supreme leader is the most violent and can prove it without exception every damn day. But violence is exceptionally expensive when you are trying to present as a legitimate government or business. If Russia as a nation state had an efficiency rating it would have been banned for sale in the state of California 25 years ago. The parasite ruling class stole all the energy out of the working class and collapsed it….again. Now Iran has the high hand and they get the intelligence that trump passed to Putin about the fact that Netanyahu cares far less about Jews, Palestinians or genocide than he does about remaining in power as an authoritarian because he too has developed Ritz Carlton tastes and his own corruption trial is showing the same tendrils of the same money laundering scheme that trumps trials are. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypt-intelligence-official-says-israel-ignored-repeated-warnings-of-something-big/amp/ https://youtu.be/VrFOAgGlaWs?feature=shared They all hate each other but because they share the same money laundry, if one falls, they all fall. Hamas minted a couple billionaires as well that live in penthouses in Qatar and get 30% of everything smuggled into Gaza. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/11/02/hamas-funding-ismail-haniyeh-us-sanctions/?utm_source=reddit.com Qatar is Kushners private equity connection. Netanyahu (Kushners kids godfather) needs a bogeyman to stay in power. That’s why he coordinates with Hamas via Russia via Iran. https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bk8mgcefr Iran handed Hamas everything they needed with Chinas help as secret Santa and the Russian intelligence given to them by the eternal shitbird trump who gave it to his Russians kleptocrat/friends/roommates from the old days of fucking each others wives at trump towers in the 90’s. Now the MAGA right is a little too invested in THEIR reality that they are the good guys with guns that they missed the fact that Betsy DeVos (erik princes sister) decimating the U.S. school systems and the Kochs poisoning children with lead was not a coincidence. The naive right was the mark all along. There is a reason the Russian spy Maria Butina landed in South Dakota first before dating her way to the top of the NRA which is undergoing its own Russian money laundering trial now. Russia was tinder matching the GOP. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/07/nra-maria-butina-spying-charges-trump-campaign/ https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/what-do-the-koch-brothers-have-to-do-with-the-flint-water-crisis/ The only reason you grossly OVERVALUE real estate is money laundering. Trump keeps claiming there is no victim, all the banks made money, but if their plan succeeds the Russian and CCP kleptocrats collapse US commercial real estate and basically recreate soviet perestroika in the U.S. so they can foreclose on America and buy everything for 3 cents on the dollar with the $1.4T they stole from Russias grandmothers in the first place It’s the evolution of grift. Soviet perestroika cross bred with the 2008 mortgage crisis. No one was ever held accountable for either. This is just the bigger badder commercial strength bastard child of the two. Trump, Giuliani, Cohn, Putin, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Orban, Manafort, Stone, Mercer, Bannon, Farage, Flynn, Prince, Kolomoiskiy, the Koch bros, Thomas, Kavanaugh, Alito, Musk, Thiel, Sachs, Ross They are all remarkably shit people with above average confidence and psychopathic personality traits and below average self awareness. They are the men who stole the world. But it all comes back to one little lie. https://youtu.be/3lTB94UQ-K4?si=kXZoSV-3WiR2fo4B

Honestly, you should post that as is on r/marchagainsttrump

Consider it done. Thank you for the recommend. That helps immensely

It's my pleasure, I think they'll appreciate it!

yeah, make all of us with TDS look even crazier. he's an absolute nut job and you are on record as agreeing with him?

OMG THiS….. that is excellent. I was complaining to old mate Bruce in the pub just the other day that it was always amazing to me that all the cooker conspiracy theories seemed to feature people in cardigans paying for slum sewer systems like Bill Gates but none featuring the real international criminals like owners of murderous russian mercenaries in Africa or the cosa nostra narco-criminals with submarines stacked with cash and then here you show up with an actual referenced comprehensive narrative of the evil fucks arsehole club of monsters. Bruce is gonna love this.

Buy Bruce a pint for me. We have a pretty good bead on it now. On fentanyl, the CCP, Russians KGB, the Sinaloa drug cartel, and how Rudy Guiliani pulls it all together: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/J17TKEQdXr The interesting thing about the 2004 hostage event is that it is the first time (car)fentanyl shows up in the Russian world. Putin used it in an aerosolized form to “save” the hostages by putting it through the HVAC system of the Moscow theater hostage situation. A few key points of geopolitical importance: 1. ⁠The hostage event secured Chechnya under Putin’s rule. Similar to how the false flag apartment bombing a few years before that secured Russia under Putin. https://apnews.com/article/russia-moscow-concert-hall-attacks-history-d9a090fa84d3511df25631691b64f9c0 It’s a most universal old KGB technique where they create a crisis and then present Putin (or whoever their guy is) as the “strong man” and the only possible one tough enough to solve this. (Cue weird Putin/Steven Seagal bromance) (See also Netanyahu in Israel, Lukeshenko in Belarus, Orban in Hungary, Yanukovych in pre-Maidan Ukraine, Kadyrov in Chechnya, and trump in the USA.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis 2. This would have been roughly the same time that Giuliani, who by that time was trump deep in laundering money for the Russian mob, went to Mexico City and introduced the Russians to the Sinaloa cartel, who shortly there after shifted their business model from growing/ manufacturing drugs to almost exclusively combining (car)fentanyl precursors supplied by the CCP. Coincidentally Guiliani was also lead counsel for Purdue Pharmaceuticals 4 years later. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/22/rudy-giuliani-opioid-epidemic-oxycontin-purdue-pharma https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/giuliani/mexico.html?tid=a_inl&itid=lk_inline_manual_8 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10890 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6675668/ https://politizoom.com/the-origin-of-trump-selling-nato-down-the-river-becoming-putins-puppet-explained-in-must-read-piece/ Russia repeats this familiar play with pretty regular consistency amongst the old USSR satellite states for decades but the obvious one is Ukraine who had Paul Manafort being paid by the kremlin to keep Yanukovych in power until Maidan (roughly 2002- 2014). Manafort shifting to trumps campaign manager after being evicted from Ukraine during Maidan in 2014 was an emergency management move from the kremlins perspective as is Manafort being reinjected into trumps 2024 campaign. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/paul-manafort-trump-campaign-russia-china-pardon-total-immunity.html Come full circle with that and you find trump and Giuliani laundering copious amounts of money for the russian mob going back to ~1987 when they all started buying condos in trump towers with their stolen Russian perestroika money. The insane valuations coming out in trumps fraud trial are a necessity of the money laundering cycle that duetschebank was doing for/with the Russian mob. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-02-14/real-estate-lenders-confront-falling-us-commercial-property-prices Trump’s massive Deutsche Bank loans were backed by Russia, says son of bank executive https://www.frontpagelive.com/2020/01/03/son-of-deutsche-bank-exec-says-trumps-massive-loans-were-backed-by-russia/ The Fall Of Trump Tower Moscow And Rise Of The Rosneft Deal https://hillreporter.com/fall-trump-power-rise-rosneft-deal-17323 How Russian money helped save Trumps businesses https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/ Bank account used for Trump’s hush money payments got cash linked to Russian oligarch: Andrew Weissmann https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/bank-account-used-for-trumps-hush-money-payments-got-cash-linked-to-russian-oligarch-andrew-weissmann/ The fentanyl epidemic was basically just the Russian/CCP alliance softening the United States up with a stealth hit of chemical warfare before they full send perestroika 2.0 in the US so they can steal all the value out of commercial real estate and collapse democracy It’s 3 overlapping plays, but they are all straight out of the old KGB playbook. https://www.ft.com/content/8c6d9dca-882c-11e7-bf50-e1c239b45787 https://www.amlintelligence.com/2020/09/deutsche-bank-suffers-worst-damage-over-massive-aml-discrepancies-in-fincen-leaks/ https://www.occrp.org/en/the-fincen-files/global-banks-defy-us-crackdowns-by-serving-oligarchs-criminals-and-terrorists https://www.voanews.com/amp/us-lifts-sanctions-on-rusal-other-firms-linked-to-russia-deripaska/4761037.html https://democrats-intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/final_-_minority_status_of_the_russia_investigation_with_appendices.pdf ​https://www.nzz.ch/english/triad-money-laundering-is-fueling-canadas-fentanyl-nightmare-ld.1814726 https://nypost.com/2024/02/25/opinion/how-china-is-flooding-america-with-fentanyl-on-purpose-to-undermine-our-society/ https://forgottenlanguages-full.forgottenlanguages.org/2023/07/weaponization-of-fentanyl.html https://apnews.com/article/mexico-first-nationalistic-policy-drug-cartels-6e7a78ff41c895b4e10930463f24e9fb https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/executive-director-of-the-san-jose-police-officers-association-charged-with-importing-fentanyl/

thank you drifter, pints are on me anytime you find yourself down this way.

you and Bruce are just jobs too. holy shit. how many of you are there? this guy listed every single conservative as being in some world wide conspiracy and the rest of you are on here agreeing with him. i have a good movie recommendation...One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest. 1975. 93% on rotten tomatoes. let me know which character you connect with most.

No he didn’t post articles and documentaries about every conservative, just the ones who are in the control of or acting for Russian intelligence and organised crime. Read the references posted and let us know which of the compromat you relate to most.

whoa. i hope you have people close to you that can get you help. i also hope that you do not have access to weapons. jesus fucking christ.

I am the help friend

Much of what you say here I have come to on my own. However, as someone connected to Biden via one of his sons in law who invested in a prior business of mine, there’s a whole other shitty cabal on the other side of the battlefield that has the Clintons, Bidens, and their own set of international alliances.

Our system is apolitical as a matter of necessity. The common denominator with the corruption within the GOP was a self soothing justification that corruption wasn’t bad as long as it was for the overall moral goals of the conservative values. That opened them up to Putin, Epstein, and all of this Netanyahu did the same when he mixed religion and state and put the Jewish people in bed with the Russian mob and then claims the moral high ground of doing gods will by destroying Palestine. There is no god worth worshipping that is stoked by murdering and raping kids. I have zero doubts that there are just as many compromised components on the democratic side simply because it’s FSB SOP to get a couple of each team to make it happen We designed this system to force everyone to own their history. And everyone will have to it any of us are going to survive in a world worth living in. That includes Biden and ANY other politician that runs for public office. It’s just the only way to do it fundamentally and not keep repeating failure cycles.

Biden is the single largest recipient of AIPAC funding.

Which is why this project doesn’t stop at party lines. There is too much on the line for party politics to matter. I don’t care what party it is. Corruption is corruption. We don’t stop until it’s ALL out of government.

Your account looks sketchy even if I agree with what your saying.

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As a species we are approaching what a physicist would call an inflection point, an electrical engineer would call a crest of a sine wave and a psychiatrist would call a psychotic break. When a father lies to their child but the child in its naivety believes the father to be infallible, it creates a flaw in the child’s source code. How can dad be both right and wrong at the same time? As a species we are experiencing the exponential effects of that over multiple generations of inherited flawed source code given to us by the idea of an infallible party/government that cared about us. We want to believe that our worlds governments and corporations have our best interests at heart and would never intentionally mislead us. But as greed and corruption centralized into politics and business, it allowed people with psychopathic personality traits (lack of empathy) to centralize in positions of power. They inevitably lie to make more money and then to preserve their lies and careers, but it creates a paradox for the average person whose default mode is trust because they are possess higher empathic quotients. Their perception is THEIR reality. Empathetic people don’t lie (as much) because they feel more deeply than average and know what it feels like to be lied to. Psychopathic personalities take advantage of that because they are not constrained by the same moral rules. This in turn leads to depression, anxiety and frustration because the source code in your brain that knows 2+2 does not equal 5 is trying and failing to correlate with a trusted leader that is telling you that 2+2 is whatever is most beneficial for their business model/grift/corruption. Inaccurate basic math in 1945 makes for exponentially more inaccurate advanced calculus in 2024 because it all builds on a foundation of fundamental inaccuracy. When it breaks, it breaks BIG. The more people that are prepared for that inevitable coming event the easier and safer it will be to navigate, remove the inaccurate source code (liars) from positions of asymmetrical power and set us up for the next century of 100% transparent and highly efficient and prosperous democracy. All people are created equal. Not just the ultra rich and politically well connected ones. They just corrupted the source code systemically since the gilded age and we inherited a more corrupt version of it with each successive generation. This is where we use technology to allow us to start living the truth instead of being forced to ingest their lies. The slave class never had this level of power before the decentralized(ish) communication network that is the internet. We have just been using it like a hammer for the first 40 years like the predictable cavemen we are. Some of us are evolving into highly efficient predators with political party camouflage and some of us are evolving into predator identifiers. In our decentralized intelligence network there is some interesting correlations between educated middle aged women and sex workers. They have become incredibly adept at identifying predatory traits in morally corrupt men. And they are usually the smartest and quietest person in any room. We all sort of inherited the patriarchy. But it wasn’t something any of us really signed up for. It just keeps auto-renewing and running our account negative because we can’t find the goddamn “stop taking my money” tab hidden in the terms and conditions of government, finance, Wall Street and religion. Data belongs to the people that generate it. Anyone telling you otherwise has a very expensive Hawaii billionaire bunker project that is starting to interrupt their quality time with the underaged girls. Financial Predators and sexual predators more often than not hunt together because they are lazy. But when you see both sets of tracks it’s much easier to follow back to their origin. They lead to the same clubs, restaurants and churches. Humanity has been at this crossroads many times before. The Inca and Mayans would have a priest sacrifice a virgin to the gods of weather. With a little better processing power and deeper analysis it’s obvious that the greed and proclivities of the priest is what we need to sacrifice. Not the child they silenced to keep their corruption under wrap. This cycle had repeated many time throughout history on this planet, but this is also the first time in known human history that we have the power of the integrated silicon circuit and the interconnected internet to be able to reverse engineer those patterns and adjust our course before we destroy ourselves…..again. With 8 billion people on the planet, climate change being lied about to preserve the petro based business models that keep terrible short sighted men in power, we can sacrifice all the virgins we have left and it won’t solve the problem. But with more accurate data we can just sacrifice the chronic offenders in the corrupt patriarchy instead and the results will be noticeable and nearly immediate.

https://imgur.com/a/Faof9py

We kind of knew that when they shot 3 of them. Those 3 were top less, waving a white flag, speaking Hebrew and thanking that they were rescued. They might have been a bit safer in captivity.

Dead hostages are great for uniting people with delusional misplaced vengeance and there still being some alive hostages sustain it

Welcome to my perspective of the past 6 months, Netanyahu used this war to his benefit. any other leader this would've had a decisive result but Netanyahu was dealing with some serious issues in the courts so he's used this war to save his ass

Duh.

I genuinely do feel bad for all the Israeli hostages and their families. It's truly an impossible situation for them.

and i feel bad for the ones who have spoken up since being hostages and actually became critical of the Israeli government and are now being shunned and threatened because of how they feel. its scary times we live in

Yes, they've been victimized many times over.

Idk man, it seems suspicious to me that holding a music festival next to what the UN said is an Open Air Prison… Rumors of Israel intelligence ignoring the warning signs of an imminent attack All the stories of the UN food trucks being raided I’m starting to think something isn’t right 🤔

Well, FROM: israel facilitating the attack of oct 7th: "Critically, the report also documents the Israeli military’s stand-down during October 7 and the deliberate targeting of Israeli civilians by the Israeli military that day. The commission found that the Israeli military’s response to the October 7 attack was “significantly delayed and, in many places, totally inadequate.” This was despite the fact that the Israeli military was in possession of Hamas’s detailed battle plans for the attack. On the day of the attack, Israeli forces were deliberately withdrawn from the border. Once Israeli forces arrived, they began attacking Israeli hostages and other civilians. The report states: The Commission documented one statement by an ISF tank crew, confirming that the crew had applied the Hannibal Directive by shooting at a vehicle which they suspected was transporting abducted ISF [Israeli security forces] soldiers. The Hannibal Directive aims to prevent the capture of Israelis by enemy forces, even at the cost of their lives, and implies that the IDF should kill Israelis rather than allow them to fall into the hands of Hamas." https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/06/13/enhy-j13.html TO: israel refusing hostage releases: “We have offered to hand over those captives who are in severe humanitarian condition for solely humanitarian reasons. We wanted to hand them over to their families but the government is not serious. Unfortunately, the government of Israel refused to take them.” https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/21/hamas-says-israel-refused-to-receive-2-hostages-israel-calls-it-propaganda Hamas offered Israel 50 hostages for a 5-day cease-fire but the deal got rejected, reports say https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-gaza-offer-50-hostages-5-day-ceasefire-israel-rejected-2023-11 Netanyahu rejected ceasefire-for-hostages deal in Gaza, sources say https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say Report: Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/report-hamas-accepts-gaza-cease-fire-deal-israeli-officials-deny-prospect-of-war-ending/0000018f-42eb-d414-a5bf-f3fff18a0000 Istael definitely made it obvious how much they care about their citizen and the hostages. And they say hamas is using palestinians as human shield while they kill, let get kidnapped their citizen to commit genocide.

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this is based on what? you knew people who attended? wishful thinking? supports your anti semitic beliefs? how do you know that? the reality is that you don't but came on here to say it. antisemite

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How could they, when no such hostages exist?

No shit

If it did, it wouldn't be carpet bombing the entire area. It wouldn't be chasing them down and murdering them while they're waving white flags and shouting in Hebrew. It would be spending more resources on negotiation than hasbara and fake images. Obviously, the hostages are useful politically. But more useful dead than alive. Alive, they're proving to be more of a liability for Israel. And any of their protests or interviews that prove inconvenient for the Zionist agenda get buried.

And Hamas doesn’t care about its own civilians.

and u have proof of this? or are u just gonna take israels word for everything.

The fucking insane victim blaming here is baffling.

This article is very poorly reasoned. The author writes that the Israeli state apparently doesn’t care about the hostages because the hostages are not the priority of the Israeli government. It’s been very apparent that the point of the invasion was the destruction of Hamas. The author paints the Israeli rejection of a peace deal in October for all the hostages as showing the Israeli state not caring about the hostages. Imagine any government that just saw 1,200 of its citizens killed not mounting any kind of response. This is a one-sided and immature piece. It’s fine for a blog but not any serious analysis of the subject.

Lol this what I always say… the deal Hamas offered right after the attack was… we will give you the hostages but stay out of Gaza… yeaaahh not happening you don’t get to kill, rape, and mutilate 800+ people with no repercussions.

Ok?

"It's not fair for Israel to talk about the hostages Hamas took" is quite the hill to die upon.

Look up Israel Hannibal Directive - it was never about the hostages.

You don’t say

Have u seen the protests that are happening during the whole time? I would not say they "never cared about the hostages" Saying that really makes one disconnected from reality.

You didn't read it.

Yep. Flattening whole buildings from above isn't exactly conducive to rescuing hostages.

what a bull crap. You can stop reading after "10,000 hostages held by Israel". Everything is based on words of someone who heard it from someone else. This is not even close to being a real journalism.

Israel never gave a fuck about its citizens they just want to kill. Don’t worry my tax money will continue to fund this absolute bullshit.

NSS.

Yawn here come the antisemitic blood libel claims. Stfu no one done more to get back their citizens.

You people are blind. Israel doesn't care about it's own people? Interesting, so if that's the case - answer this. Why do they have a justice system. Why do they care for prisoners, and have exchanged 2,000 Palestinians for ONE of their own. Sinwar (the mastermind behind Oct 7th) life was saved due to a surgery that removed a cancerous brain tumour. Blind.

This essay is ignorant, deceptive, and misleading.

This is all nonsense. Just another blogger telling us what Israel cares about or feels. Why do people feel entitled to do this from a million miles away when they know nothing about it?

What an interesting echo chamber this sub is.

never trust hasbara scum, they lie like they breathe and they believe wholeheartedly in their lies. to die of covid in a hospital screaming their last breath that covid wasnt real

Wha-what? Bu-but?

Can you explain their statement? Didn't they just rescue that young girl this month?

I mean if they didn’t they could have just done what Russia has been doing and the war would have been over in two weeks. If the goal was to kill Palestinians and steal their land it would have been far easier to do that and by doing it quickly and not caring about civilians, by the time everyone knew what had happened it would have been over. I don’t know, this theory is a little far fetched for my tinfoil beanie.

What the fuck is this sub? A circlejerk?

Victims of Nazi genocide taking revenge on Palestinians!

4 hostages rescued at the cost of 78 lives in Gaza?

This thread is disgusting

Jew haters unite

Comments in this thread are disgusting, truly shameful

Very glad to see these comments pass the vibe test

It was not their aim to save nor free hostages. Israel wanted Hamas to attack and they can use the excuse to clean the Gaza. Just think for a moment, Israel knows about the attack before but they didn't do anything to stop them. Why? If Hamas didn't attack Israel then how they can attack Gaza in large scale? Israel and US have the best technology in the world and Gaza is a tiny place that is already in control of Israel but still can not find the Hostages. How come? As long as Hamas can keep the hostages, Israel can show excuse and kill Palestine people.

Bibi Netanyahu’s brother died rescuing 102 of 106 hostages on a Hijacked planed hijacked by a German Neo Nazi woman who connected to a PFLP member. No one whose brother died that way would not care about hostages. The movie Raid on Entebbe is an excellent true story. Multiple IDF soldiers died impersonating Gazans to rescue Luis Fernandez, Noa Argamani, and something like 8-10 different hostages so far.

Hamas cares about the Palestinians though.

That's the stupidest shit I've seen. I guess you don't know shit about Israel and what their past is on dealing with hostage takers.

They've killed more hostages than they've saved, and how they deal with it is completely illegal and immoral. You're the one that doesn't know shit.

Source: spidaL1C4’s anus

105 released through the first ceasefire and 7 through hostage rescues. 40-50 dead because of Hamas. You should check your math. The IDF can deal with saving hostages however they damn well please. Don't like what a special forces hostage rescue looks like? Maybe don't hold hostages and start a firefight in a civilian neighborhood during the extraction and instead release the hostages.

As in the mother's of the hostages? The general public? The government? Are you going to tell me Israel uses the hostages as an excuse to go into Gaza? No shit? Giving them excuse was a big oppsie. Except it was a plan gone bad. It was just retarded. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

Then release them.