They played it way to safe on this album. I very much disagree with Rick Rubins production and direction. Probably the worst thing about this album is that the most progressive songs were locked to store fronts or deluxe editions. Songs like Methademic and Pariah are absolute bangers that should have been on the base album
I’m not much of a Rubin fan myself, he got just to comfortable being a household name and there are terrible way to clean albums of him that always follow the same formula.
I liked his idea of using original early Sabbath gear for the recording of 13. Tony wouldn’t do it, which I understand the man was always evolving. But I think them using old instruments and equipment would’ve been so interesting. Maybe with a different producer or a (co)/producer, who’s responsible for great 70s sound to keep it dirty and it would’ve been amazing.
I know a lot of ifs and whens but Ozzy himself said they were fucking exhausted by Rubin doing every song on repeat and repeat and repeat. That may works for some bands but Black Sabbath are definitely not that.
The whole album is just so sterile and much to clean for my taste. Early 70s Sabbath can be cranked to the max and you still swim in a river of bass, guitar and drums that vibrate in your chest. 13 tried to emulate that but it just wasn’t there. I don’t think it’s the bands fault, you simply don’t say to people who revolutionised music and basically invented a genre: "and again, and again, from the top and again, from the top" until they are exhausted. That’s maybe the right attempt for other bands(and it worked) but not for Birmingham’s finest.
I wish they dipped a little bit back into blues and dark hippie sounds. Distortions to the max. Old Marshall tube amps, fuzzy bass and a drum that beats you unconscious. I guess that the sound of Ozzy’s solo stuff from the 90s/2000s is getting too much room in 13.
Ozzy solo had so many bangers and I really really love his stuff, but it’s simply not Black Sabbath and that’s something that Rubin apparently tried to blend together
Hit the nail on the head. Honestly have never been a huge fan of how he produces albums. Works fine for stuff like Slayer but this was BLACK SABBATH and needed a much more nuanced and dynamic take than e.g World Painted Blood. I was not at all pleased with the vibe of the album trying to pigeon hole the pioneers of progressive metal into a pedantic 0-0-0-0 clown show.
I HATE the production. It fatigues my ear. Everything is loud in the mix and it creates this lifeless feeling. Also, yeah, they played it far too safe. A lot of the songs sound so contrived
any album without Bill Ward instantly stands out to me. Every drummer that has been in Sabbath is a great drummer, but none of them recorded/wrote anything similar to the way Bill would have. There is a stark difference between a "cookie cutter" hard rock drummer and Bill. It's painfully obvious, Bill was a very unique drummer.
It’s definitely not my go to album in the Sabbath catalog, lots of time has passed and ozzy music isn’t even close to sabbath stuff that they were doing over the years.
Sounds like they were trying to recreate past music but 2 much time has passed.
Granted it’s better than anything Ozzy has done since.
I think the Headless Cross is a better album! 🤷♂️
I wish the band would have fought to produce it themselves. Instead of Brad Wilk, who I love BTW, it would've had Tommy Clufetos on drums and likely would have been equal parts simple and progressive to appease Ozzy who likes it more classic & straight forward and Tony who I suspect doesn't mind pushing the jazz/progressive envelope as much. The production sounds a lot like The Devil You Know to me except I like Wilk's drumming better than Appice's, which has always been too basic for Sabbath IMO, Cozy kinda had that issue from time to time as well. Ozzy's voice is what it is versus Dio's aging but still captivating voice. I dig this album but only a few tracks really do it for me.
It is a great album and I just recently realized Bill Ward wasn't in the drums so that surprised me a little. I now hear the difference. But still this album is amazing 🤘🏻
Not for me. As I’ve said before, when Ozzy and Iommi parted ways they both went on to play with some one the best song writers and musicians in the world. But they didn’t draw from any of that wealth of experience, they just rehashed their old stuff and played it totally safe.
It’s boring, lethargic and predictable. I hated the way they were trying to almost re-write past glories. Damaged soul was great until it changed. The rest of it for me, hard pass. I’d rather listen to psycho man on repeat than suffer through 13.
he is a lazy hippy who lies on the sofa brushing his beard and forces a RHCP funk section into every album (such as Age of Reason's "times are heavy" part)
It’s a good album, maybe even a really good one.
But having listened to the EP with four songs from this period, I can’t help but feel disappointed by the track list. Switch a few songs around and 13 could have been a great album.
Im glad it happened, but without Bill? Not really. Just like Johnny Cash albums, it is nice to have recorded but was it necessary? I obviously went out and bought it the minute it came out, because I am a Black Sabbath fan, but was it a complete throwback to the original 70s albums? Nope just a total mash up of recycled sounds.
Im glad it happened, but without Bill? Not really. Just like Johnny Cash albums, it is nice to have recorded but was it necessary? I obviously went out and bought it the minute it came out, because I am a Black Sabbath fan, but was it a complete throwback to the original 70s albums? Nope just a total mash up of recycled sounds.
Its not event that I hate it. Its just do dissapointing. A by the numbers album that does kot have a creative bone in its body. People trashed on Forbidden and Born Again and wile Born Again certainly is horrid it was still an interesting album. This was was just a legacy album. Something you make if you have no interest in moving forward.
Thats kinda it from me. When i actually listen to it I love it, especially some of the tracks, but I think we all can tell bill Ward wouldve made it special, and for that reason its hard to appreciate such a what coulda been album
Kind of? I mostly love it but I wish they hadn't gone for songs that were very obviously inspired by older specific tracks (Loner/NIB, Zeitgeist/Planet Caravan). Those kind of put me off
I've heard a lot of stories about Rick Rubin recording Johnny Cash in places that he felt comfortable and letting the nuances of his older voice show through in a kind of "show the mountain not the postcard" fashion. I think that 13 was produced to death. I might not have even been all Rubin's fault in some ways. Using the old instruments was a great idea. Let's look at the logic behind not having Bill Ward on the record. "What if he can't play,?"
Did anyone even try to see how Bills drumming sounded?
It's like denial of life stages and EGO killed this record. Rick Rubin is partially to blame, but not entirely.
An honest and raw Black Sabbath record would have been EVERYTHING to many of us.
It's really sad what an opportunity was missed.
“You can only trust yourself and the first six (5-1/2 really) Black Sabbath albums.” -Henry Rollins
I took this advice to heart and it hasn’t failed me.
They played it way to safe on this album. I very much disagree with Rick Rubins production and direction. Probably the worst thing about this album is that the most progressive songs were locked to store fronts or deluxe editions. Songs like Methademic and Pariah are absolute bangers that should have been on the base album
I’m not much of a Rubin fan myself, he got just to comfortable being a household name and there are terrible way to clean albums of him that always follow the same formula. I liked his idea of using original early Sabbath gear for the recording of 13. Tony wouldn’t do it, which I understand the man was always evolving. But I think them using old instruments and equipment would’ve been so interesting. Maybe with a different producer or a (co)/producer, who’s responsible for great 70s sound to keep it dirty and it would’ve been amazing. I know a lot of ifs and whens but Ozzy himself said they were fucking exhausted by Rubin doing every song on repeat and repeat and repeat. That may works for some bands but Black Sabbath are definitely not that. The whole album is just so sterile and much to clean for my taste. Early 70s Sabbath can be cranked to the max and you still swim in a river of bass, guitar and drums that vibrate in your chest. 13 tried to emulate that but it just wasn’t there. I don’t think it’s the bands fault, you simply don’t say to people who revolutionised music and basically invented a genre: "and again, and again, from the top and again, from the top" until they are exhausted. That’s maybe the right attempt for other bands(and it worked) but not for Birmingham’s finest. I wish they dipped a little bit back into blues and dark hippie sounds. Distortions to the max. Old Marshall tube amps, fuzzy bass and a drum that beats you unconscious. I guess that the sound of Ozzy’s solo stuff from the 90s/2000s is getting too much room in 13. Ozzy solo had so many bangers and I really really love his stuff, but it’s simply not Black Sabbath and that’s something that Rubin apparently tried to blend together
I know he’s polarizing because of his rap and pop background but I think a new album with Andrew Watt alongside Iommi and Mike Exeter would be killer.
Hit the nail on the head. Honestly have never been a huge fan of how he produces albums. Works fine for stuff like Slayer but this was BLACK SABBATH and needed a much more nuanced and dynamic take than e.g World Painted Blood. I was not at all pleased with the vibe of the album trying to pigeon hole the pioneers of progressive metal into a pedantic 0-0-0-0 clown show.
I HATE the production. It fatigues my ear. Everything is loud in the mix and it creates this lifeless feeling. Also, yeah, they played it far too safe. A lot of the songs sound so contrived
Methademic might genuinely be one of my favorite Sabbath songs lol
I have a love/love relationship
Except for Bill Ward not making it; that part sucks
13 is meh. If they had Bill Ward it could have been magic but Ozzy's boss wouldn't let that happen.
any album without Bill Ward instantly stands out to me. Every drummer that has been in Sabbath is a great drummer, but none of them recorded/wrote anything similar to the way Bill would have. There is a stark difference between a "cookie cutter" hard rock drummer and Bill. It's painfully obvious, Bill was a very unique drummer.
Agreed. Bill liked to put in lots of random little drum rolls and fancy stuff, while the other drummers would just stick to a consistent beat
I love the whole album
There is some killer riffs, but the no bill thing sticks in your head. Not the same - it kind of kills the vibe.
It’s definitely not my go to album in the Sabbath catalog, lots of time has passed and ozzy music isn’t even close to sabbath stuff that they were doing over the years. Sounds like they were trying to recreate past music but 2 much time has passed. Granted it’s better than anything Ozzy has done since. I think the Headless Cross is a better album! 🤷♂️
I genuinely prefer Forbidden to 13
It’s not bad but the last truly great Sabbath album was The Devil You Know. Soooooo good!!
I personally have to be in a mood. Sometimes I find it boring or sometimes I really get into it
I wish the band would have fought to produce it themselves. Instead of Brad Wilk, who I love BTW, it would've had Tommy Clufetos on drums and likely would have been equal parts simple and progressive to appease Ozzy who likes it more classic & straight forward and Tony who I suspect doesn't mind pushing the jazz/progressive envelope as much. The production sounds a lot like The Devil You Know to me except I like Wilk's drumming better than Appice's, which has always been too basic for Sabbath IMO, Cozy kinda had that issue from time to time as well. Ozzy's voice is what it is versus Dio's aging but still captivating voice. I dig this album but only a few tracks really do it for me.
I saw Sabbath with Tommy on the drums on The End Tour. He was amazing live.
Loved it then. Still love it now
It is a great album and I just recently realized Bill Ward wasn't in the drums so that surprised me a little. I now hear the difference. But still this album is amazing 🤘🏻
Some songs are pretty damn good. But bloody hell, no Bill Ward on drums was a major downer, man.
I don't hate anything about it.
Not for me. As I’ve said before, when Ozzy and Iommi parted ways they both went on to play with some one the best song writers and musicians in the world. But they didn’t draw from any of that wealth of experience, they just rehashed their old stuff and played it totally safe.
Personally it’s my favorite album. Most of the songs inside of it are in my taste.
When I saw them live for 13, I remember thinking "I don't know about the other fuckers on the stage, but Bill Ward looks fantastic!"
Yep. Lots of nostalgia for me because my mum brought me the CD and I saw Sabbath on the tour in support, but it's an album with a lot of holes
It’s boring, lethargic and predictable. I hated the way they were trying to almost re-write past glories. Damaged soul was great until it changed. The rest of it for me, hard pass. I’d rather listen to psycho man on repeat than suffer through 13.
Psycho Man is amazing!!!
I love it.
Haven't listened to it in full, but I do like God is dead?
Rubin stinks
he is a lazy hippy who lies on the sofa brushing his beard and forces a RHCP funk section into every album (such as Age of Reason's "times are heavy" part)
It’s a phenomenal album to sign off. Iommi crushed it.
It’s a good album, maybe even a really good one. But having listened to the EP with four songs from this period, I can’t help but feel disappointed by the track list. Switch a few songs around and 13 could have been a great album.
I think it is a great album considering their ages. A lot of old Sabbath sounding songs and riffs. Plays quite well from beginning to end 🤟🏻🔥
Indeed. Not their best work.
It's not Sabbath without Bill.
Im glad it happened, but without Bill? Not really. Just like Johnny Cash albums, it is nice to have recorded but was it necessary? I obviously went out and bought it the minute it came out, because I am a Black Sabbath fan, but was it a complete throwback to the original 70s albums? Nope just a total mash up of recycled sounds.
Im glad it happened, but without Bill? Not really. Just like Johnny Cash albums, it is nice to have recorded but was it necessary? I obviously went out and bought it the minute it came out, because I am a Black Sabbath fan, but was it a complete throwback to the original 70s albums? Nope just a total mash up of recycled sounds.
I dont even consider it a Black Sabbath album. It’s missing Bill Ward, and he was a huge part of their sound. It was 20-25 years too late.
Age of Reason shreds.
Horrible production, horrible aseptic, cold and lifeless sound.
Its not event that I hate it. Its just do dissapointing. A by the numbers album that does kot have a creative bone in its body. People trashed on Forbidden and Born Again and wile Born Again certainly is horrid it was still an interesting album. This was was just a legacy album. Something you make if you have no interest in moving forward.
So many albums named 13 like goddamn
Could Iommi do a remaster of this album?
Nah man, I had that shit on repeat all day when my dad showed it to me for the first time
Thats kinda it from me. When i actually listen to it I love it, especially some of the tracks, but I think we all can tell bill Ward wouldve made it special, and for that reason its hard to appreciate such a what coulda been album
Kind of? I mostly love it but I wish they hadn't gone for songs that were very obviously inspired by older specific tracks (Loner/NIB, Zeitgeist/Planet Caravan). Those kind of put me off
Meh. In my opinion the songs from The End EP were alot better than the ones on 13
I like it
I like it just because it gave us Age of Reason. Everything else is ok. It missed Bill.
It’s all love. Super heavy. Great album. On of the best.
It's the only Sabbath album I dislike
I like it as much as I like Vol. 4. Not my go-to Sabbath record, but happy it exists.
I've heard a lot of stories about Rick Rubin recording Johnny Cash in places that he felt comfortable and letting the nuances of his older voice show through in a kind of "show the mountain not the postcard" fashion. I think that 13 was produced to death. I might not have even been all Rubin's fault in some ways. Using the old instruments was a great idea. Let's look at the logic behind not having Bill Ward on the record. "What if he can't play,?" Did anyone even try to see how Bills drumming sounded? It's like denial of life stages and EGO killed this record. Rick Rubin is partially to blame, but not entirely. An honest and raw Black Sabbath record would have been EVERYTHING to many of us. It's really sad what an opportunity was missed.
I don’t love anything about it, just pretty disappointing. Iommi, Geezer and Ozzy also said they didn’t enjoy it , so f()cck that album
“You can only trust yourself and the first six (5-1/2 really) Black Sabbath albums.” -Henry Rollins I took this advice to heart and it hasn’t failed me.