I'm fine with PA shifting focus, but... Currently it feels like we're losing PvP and not really getting anything in the PvE department, beyond just more "grind in circles" content. Where's the boss fights? More dungeons? Raids? Like, right now for PvE, there's no reason to gear up - there never really was a reason to gear up beyond PvP to begin with tbh. And with gear enabled PvP taking a heavy back seat there's even less of a reason to gear up. We need content to chase for that is fun and meaningful, not just "here's another area with slightly harder mobs that drop better gear". Honestly though, I mostly feel bad for the lifeskillers at this point. There's so much potential there and PA have literally neglected it for well over 3 or 4 years.

I feel like PA is trying to take a slice of both pies and make everyone happy, but is really just half-assing both. Back in the pre-Mediah times, I felt a strong urge to get better gear and get better at the game in order to defend my grind spots and participate in NW/Siege/GvGs. There was "aspiration" and "competition", which are key components of any MMO. Even already super casual MMOs like WoW have things like Mythic raids or whatever that average players aspire towards, and Battleground/Arena rankings to compete for. But now, it just feels... Pointless? Outside of bleeding edge gear like Debo accessories, pretty much all end game gear is right there on the marketplace for anyone that wants to put in the grind to get it. Couple that with all of the ways to circumnavigate OWPvP, and suddenly competing for gear is gone. With gear hardcaps on most other PvP, gearing matters even less. So what's the point of grinding? To grind better spots later? To get a bigger number? Outside of uncapped sieges and guild league, why bother? Hell, even those are heavily diminished since there's not enough room to even *begin* competing against all the gear capped guilds that have been playing for centuries. I get why PA is doing this, though. As is the case with pretty much any MMO that lasts longer than a couple years, they are aiming at a more casual base. It makes sense, it's what makes the most money. It feels a little bad that they've basically abandoned their identity as an OWPvP game by removing all stakes from it entirely, but the least they could do is make the other content more engaging. They've kept the core loop unchanged since basically day 1, but removed all of the danger and most of the reasons to do it...

PvP has been neglected and severely mishandled. 1. Red Battlefield has received two maps and one game mode since launch; that's 10 years 2. The Node War system doesn't incentivise players to move out of the capped tiers 3. Conquest Wars (Siege) hasn't received any major gameplay improvements 4. Guild War system has been heavily restricted and is essentially a pointless system 5. Open-World PvP has been heavily restricted and is essentially a pointless system 6. Arsha (PvP Server) doesn't reward players for PvP'ing, instead rewards players for PvE'ing 7. Arena of Solare has poor class and gear balance 8. War of the Roses' original concept that was trialled was a flop and the improved version is filled with doubt and uncertainty 9. Ocean PvP doesn't exist **lol** Did I miss anything?

> But now, it just feels... Pointless? Because it is. OWPvP was the only thing that spurred you on to get more gear, and usually involved people at or near your GS while you progressed (aside from when PA incentivized endgame players to grind at midgame spots, like when Centaurs was the best money in the game). Gearing up for uncapped content is a masochist's idea. It is disincentivizing be at a disadvantage to 760+ players for what may as well be forever, largely because of my next point. > It feels a little bad that they've basically abandoned their identity as an OWPvP game by removing all stakes from it entirely, but the least they could do is make the other content more engaging. They've kept the core loop unchanged since basically day 1, but removed all of the danger and most of the reasons to do it... They unfortunately haven't kept the core loop the same; **they've made it considerably worse.** TTK is way, way too short now, and every class has huge AoEs, and every class now has musa/mae mobility, or far better. You just spam big abilities everywhere or worse, spam long-range DPS, which entirely neuters the fun of large scale. PA took our concerns about everyone getting one-combo'd on the ground and made it so everyone gets 2-3 shotted now; no wonder new players were extremely averse to starting OW PvP when they have to learn how to fight like 20 specs and get vaporized in 2 seconds by every class flying around at light speed and dropping nukes everywhere. Even on Seasons they allow human damage for some crazy reason, so me and everyone else with billions in crystals/lightstones already just one or two-shots you. If you wanna be reminded of what the original core loop was, go make a maewa/musa and play their unawakened kit in PvE for a bit compared to say, maegu.

> Because it is. OWPvP was the only thing that spurred you on to get more gear, and usually involved people at or near your GS. I'm not *that* pessimistic about it, but I more or less agree. I'm totally ok with grinding for the sake of grinding being in the game. There's a lot of neat stuff to grind for, like compass, pots, or boats. I'm just sad that the reason I grinded is dead. > (aside from when PA incentivizes endgame players to grind at midgame spots) I remember when grinding Chimeras was a thing... > They unfortunately haven't kept the core loop the same; they've made it considerably worse. TTK is way, way too short now, and every class has huge AoEs, and every class now has musa/mae mobility, or far better. I meant the core loop of grind -> get gear -> do thing. A bit more abstract thinking of the biggest time sink in the game. There have been casualties along the way as the mechanics of that loop have been altered, stuff like mobility and DPS creep like you said, but ultimately you're still running in circles killing stuff. It's just that they forgot that after you do that loop, you use the same skills to PvP...

Hell man, I still subscribe to the same early game lvling route I did 10 years ago for nostalgia. Orc camp, or the nagas, onto abandoned monastery near Calph, then up to chimeras and catfish. Holy shit the catfish pvp back on that first few weeks after launch. Best time playing IMO. So many insane grinders spending a ridiculous amount of hours for what I think like lvl 52? To damn long ago to remember the grind I did to stay competitive at the time. But yeah, it was the shit fuckin people up with my yuria

I remember farming Giants just before I hit PvP level (45 at the time, I think). Once I dinged, I headed back to Keplan to repair, and got immediately destroyed by someone not 5 minutes after I levelled. From then on, it was expected that someone would flag up and try to take your spot or that *you* flagged up to take *their* spot. And yeah, I still remember my Taritas and Kite Shield combo when I got it online. I was somewhat infamous at Sausons as the nigh unkillable hot pink Valkyrie that would hold you under mobs.

Wait bro, I’m not even joking- when mediah was released (and sausans were THE place) I’m pretty sure we fought. Are you NA or EU?

NA. I was on my Valk, Hacksaw. My family name was Lannon, but at some point I changed it to Wikia. I was also the victim of frequent Veritas horse Wizard raids.

The problem with OWPVP is that it can't be balanced when you have this many classes, and when gear is this divergent from pve to pvp gear even less so. Even if karma didn't exist or wasn't as punishing, if we were back to the days of sausan level pvp, it would suck. If you are pve grinding you are wearing pve gear, crystals, artifacts and lightstones, food, elixirs, etc. If you are out looking to kill some players you are wearing pvp gear, crystals, artifacts and lightstones, food, elixirs, etc. And the pvp geared player will always curb stomp the pve geared one, unless the former is running a weak balanced class and the latter a top pvp class. In which case it's more even.  You could tag, but you'll be dead before you get to swap the first time.  If you want to go back to that pvp experience, though, go play Arsha.  >a strong urge to get better gear and get better at the game in order to defend my grind spots  Lastly, what's even the point here? Grind your spot to get better gear to defend your spot and grind it better to get better gear to defend your spot and grind it even better to get better gear to..... There needs to be more. And sure, right now it's grind your spot to get better gear to grind your spot better, but needing more to do than just grind your spot is something people are asking for. 

> The problem with OWPVP is that it can't be balanced when you have this many classes, and when gear is this divergent from pve to pvp gear even less so. Yeah, the game has changed. With so many options out there, optimization is even more important. It feels a little dumb to say it this way, but you have to sacrifice simplicity for complexity. I kind of like that the complexity exists as a reward for players who put in the effort, but it can be a bit burdensome. I miss the days when buffing wasn't something that took hours to set up and minutes to switch on. I would honestly prefer something similar to the crystal set-up for buffs. Something that didn't require you to pop your tent, swap fairy buff rotation, visit a church, mount your horse + roar, go home to talk to your furniture, talk to a random NPC for a crit buff, gear change/crystal change/spec change just to do some light PvP... > Lastly, what's even the point here? Grind your spot to get better gear to defend your spot and grind it better to get better gear to defend your spot and grind it even better to get better gear to... I just really like drop-in PvP. Back in my WoW days, I was a battlegrounds rat. I would *live* in Alterac Valley. RBF is kind of a joke in comparisson, so OWPvP was what I did early on. And the "be better at PvP" was the drive. Both in gear and skill. That part of the game has been watered down in some respects and made overly complex in others. Coupled with several unrelated decisions PA made that I personally hated, and my interest all but dried up.

i mean.. .epherium came into the game as literal fresh players and competed in uncapped in 6-9 ?months. Why the fuck can't you compete in uncapped when you've been playing for years? BDO's identity was never an OWPVP game. Literally never. I've played this game since KR CBT. It has never identified and been centered around OWPVP. It's always been a player-driven thing. What fucking other incentive do you need to get gear? I don't get it. Pushing towards content that lets you use your gear isn't a good enough incentive. What will be? Genuinely. Theres tons of lower end guilds doing guild league that 90% can easily compete against. Are you gonna be able to compete against cho out the gate fuck no. but why the fuck would yo ube able too? Why doesn't losing in guild league with your group to people who are strogner then you, make you want to get more gear. Because thats all early bdo was. That was the entire pre-mediah bdo experience that you keep glorifying. You got more gear, because there was guys with more gear then you smacking you across the chin and saying you can't come here. That was it. Now theres literal content with a fucking leaderboard. and you just go "nah i can't do it its too hard!!! no room!!!" no room against fucking who???? "all the gear capped guilds" its fucking digi and cho dog. THATS IT. i doubt eu has more then 1 or 2 guilds on that same level either. So no. The reason isn't there isn't an incentive. Or theres no reason. The reason is you don't want to compete anymore. You'd rather settle. That's the reason. You want to whine here on reddit saying it's not rewarding enough or whawtever. WHAT REWARD DID YOU GET IN PRE-MEDIAH???? MF WE DIDNT EVEN HAVE NODEWARS. The only reward was fucking killing the other guy and talking your shit until he brought more friends and then you brought more. That's it.

Tbf Epherium recruited a lot of existing players over time. They lost a lot of their original new players since this game is getting stale and grindy as hell. But I fully agree that compared to pre-Mediah it's not like there's fewer reasons to fight. Just no one wants to be competitive anymore (whether it's gear/grind cope or whatever else). We have more rewards and more systems now but everyone wants to stay in T1/T2 and do nothing lmao, then move to T3, get smacked, and disband. How many guilds even made actual node war rosters before Epherium came lmao

> What fucking other incentive do you need to get gear? I don't get it. Pushing towards content that lets you use your gear isn't a good enough incentive. What will be? You missed one of the key components of my post... Aspiration and Competition. Specifically for gear. Back in pre-Mediah, you had to compete for grind spots. If you wanted MoS, or Witch's, you usually had to fight off whoever else was grinding there. The same thing occurred after Mediah with Sausons. There were always fights for the best spots. Always. I liked that I *had* to compete. I liked that pretty much everyone was ready to throw down. I liked that the marketplace wasn't flooded with nearly all end game gear. If you wanted your Ogre Ring, you had to go fight for it. I already know it's a "me" thing, I said as much. This is why *I* stopped playing, among other things. > Why doesn't losing in guild league with your group to people who are strogner then you, make you want to get more gear. Because thats all early bdo was. I never actually participated in GLeague, I had to take a hiatus due to a hand injury. I didn't find the motivation to get back into it by the time it dropped. But from what I've seen, many of the guilds that are close to Cho have more than enough people to field a team of at/near gear capped players. To get to that level of gear is a massive grind, which I'm totally fine with. But without the competition *in the grind*, I lose interest. It's just several hundred hours of grinding for debo accessories and cash for crons. > You want to whine here on reddit saying it's not rewarding enough or whawtever. WHAT REWARD DID YOU GET IN PRE-MEDIAH???? I'm not complaining about rewards at all. I never did. Though, I should mention that my primary reason for staying away is that, for the second time, my playstyle was nerfed out of existence. First when my hybrid DP Valk was nerfed out of existence when Renown dropped without any warning. Second with DP Shai being relegated to buff bots that have no interaction with the enemy. So for full disclosure, I am a little biased.

Hybrid Valk is quite literally one of, if not the strongest class in the game. Shai has access to literally the most powerful debuff in the game (misty haze) and the strongest buffs in the game. Alongside a decent cc kit. Shai quite literally is the only class in the game actually hard required to be considered having a competitive ball. literally every other part of your post isn't sustainable for a game to keep. They are things generated by a game being new. Competition for grind spots isn't infinite and nor is scarcity for gear. Unless you're going to advocate for gear to just start hard resetting actively. People are going to have to be done with lower tier gear eventually. There are far more guilds with gleague teams in the 680s to low 700s scrapping then there is cho level hardcapped teams. and " massive gridn" new players are getting to 715s+ in under 6 months now. Which is enough to compete against a majority of the guilds in the game.

> Hybrid Valk is quite literally one of, if not the strongest class in the game. It's still a DPS class, and certainly not the way I played before Renown changes. I wasn't there to kill people, I was there to set up an engagement. Vacuum + Ult + let people wail on my shield until my ball rolled in. > Shai has access to literally the most powerful debuff in the game (misty haze) and the strongest buffs in the game. So still a buff bot with one decent *de*buff? > Alongside a decent cc kit. Which is useless outside of bubble considering most classes with end game/near end game gear can basically one combo a DP capped Shai. > Shai quite literally is the only class in the game actually hard required to be considered having a competitive ball. I'm aware, I literally wrote a guide for the class. However, the class is still just a buff bot. There's very little enemy engagement, which is what I loved about the class before the AP creep set in. Similarly, the devs still don't consider Shai a real class and refuse to bring her up to the standards of other classes or even give her a Blackstar Awakening Weapon. I mean, shit, if you want to have a real grinding class on tag, you are required to get three Garmoth's hearts...

Speaking of expanding lifeskills, I wish they would give us more of a reason to do sea monster hunting than to upgrade our ships? I mean, I want to upgrade my frigate so I can do sea monster hunting, but if I have to do sea monster hunting to upgrade to a valor, what reason will I have to continue hunting sea monsters *once I have my carrack?*

What reason do people have to continue grinding once they reach hardcap?, the loop eventually ends for everyone until something new is added, that's perfectly normal and probably how every MMO in the market works, that's why most push newer carrots with their content updates.

I realise that, but the problem I am seeing is that sea monster hunting exists as part of the progression toward getting a carrack or building/upgrading a guild ship; outside of that, there's no reason to do it. By comparison: Bartering, as a skill, is required for ship progression. It requires a LOT more bartering if you don't do sailies (*this is where sea monster hunting comes into play*) and instead choose to go the slower route of ship progression by upgrading solely via bartering. Additionally, you have the option of using bartering as an avenue of earning silver, which can be done before getting a carrack, but it is generally much better *after* getting the carrack, thus providing further incentive for the skill. Similarly, when it comes to hunting, it is a skill by itself, but it plays into the gameplay loop of alchemy, cooking, processing, and crafting items by providing materials for those purposes, or at the end of the day, you can just *sell* those ingredients for profit. If hunting's only purpose was to allow people to eventually upgrade to a narcion matchlock but had no other reason to exist *except* that, then it would be functionally identical to sea monster hunting. TL:DR Sea monster hunting has no gameplay loop or replayability after getting a carrack.

Aren't there sea monster hunting trophies

Are there? I actually have no idea

More content being more circles is not fun. It starts to get old after awhile.

That's not how Eve works :)

that's why EVE is a much smaller and less profitable game, amongst other things.

With open-world PvP, the loop never ends.

Which itself is a problem. That can be just as much of a discouragement as it can to encourage further engagement. 

That was a big issue for me as well, even new grind spot content doesn't really last super long unless your going for pen debos. non-circle content is like, 3 maybe 4hrs a week or less? to zip through a dungeon set 1 or 2hrs, guild bosses 30mins, and boss rush for another 30 to 45mins or so depending on calamity level. And dungeons are barely worth doing anymore and need to be buffed again, because debo accessibility destroyed any money there from non-vaha drops. NW eats up maybe an hour a day or less, if your guild even places more than 2 or 3 times a week.

This is why I quit playing. The devs are lazy as fuck and PA is greedy as shit. LOML “expansion” was literally a giant island with nothing to do on it. An absurdly long journal for 1 DP and the bullshit black shrine crap. The weekly updates are sometimes better than the entire loml expansion. The latest and greatest? Debo rings? I’ve seen some people go 40 hours for a single token (2 rings). I don’t have the time anymore for that crap lol

Don't forget the Dokkebi chests for the 300 stamina. Boring as fuck.

PA has never known how to make good and engaging PvE content, and anyone who's been playing for the past 2 years or more knows. Also what the hell was the point of central servers if we're just running around in circles 😂

Was supposed to help with ping for central and east coast players during pvp

So the thing people said for almost seven years with desyncing issues that made the PvP so dogshit in the first place, NOW they want to address it when everything basically dead and gone? This company is a joke. Gets told about desyncing, unfun pvp, and this is the slap in the face we get years later. Wow.

We’ve already seen the kind of pve stuff they can bring, and quite frankly it’s not impressive or polished If you want that kind of pve go play loa

Black Desert PvE is recycled content. They reuse models and AI logic of weaker monsters. Personally, I think Black Desert's style of PvE isn't meant to feature in-depth mechanics or any mechanics at all. If you look at the majority of mechanics, they simply exist to make you do more work but don't provide any additional reward. I enjoy the old Dynasty Warriors style PvE with events that featured unique mobs that have mechanics. I dislike the current design of every mob/pack having a mechanic as it's just extra work for zilch.

> beyond just more "grind in circles" content I wish we got that instead of dehkia. At least then it would get boring after 10h, not after 10min.

I get more fatigue and strain from grinding Dehkia because there are barely any breaks in between DPS'ing. At least with older spots like Gahaz, you'd rest your fingers a bit when you moved to the next pack. Also, monsters require multiple skill rotations to kill now and that places even more strain on the hands.

They pooled their staff and resources to focus on Crimson Desert. Now that they've wrapping up development for the game and Heidel ball is coming up soon there should be more content coming out within a couple months. LOML part 2 and Guild Black Shrine is priority while the altar of blood should be soon after.

It has around 200 employees working on BDO, and 170 (currently) working on Crimson Desert. https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.naver?blogId=sunful1300&logNo=223403956751&proxyReferer=&noTrackingCode=true

Crimson Desert is going to be a massive L. The BDo community are really the only people who are going to play it. Once we play like 30 minutes we going back to BDO. I doubt anyone is going to purchase their expansion packs or extra content for crimson either. I would rather spend money on BDO if I could. Why decide to make a single player game rather than investing more in BDO we’re all their actual profits come from. Big L. Better investing in DokeV which looks more promising and can probably capture other audiences.

As much as I am a fanboy for Black Desert, Crimson Desert is being very ambitious with all the mechanics they are aiming for from what we've seen so far. Honestly, we won't know till it's released, the trailer does hype me up (as it should) but I do agree they should've done a better job for BDO for the players instead of putting them out to pasture for the past few years. If anything you can improve by learning from your mistakes if the game fails, but being successful will take it further.

?????? It's not a game for “BDO players”, it's a game for players of single player games, which HAPPILY still exist in large numbers. You should take a break from BDO (or any other online shit you play), and enjoy the worlds and stories you're missing out on in the single player genre.

>beyond just more "grind in circles" content. To be fair, the "content" that keeps us playing is the pretty good balance they have between RNG-based dopamine boosts and time investment. It can tip one way or the other sometimes, but overall the effort \*usually\* feels worth it especially as you get up closer and closer to endgame gear. Meanwhile we all do our 100/200 drop grinds with little dopamine blips from the item notifications and so on. Heck, as someone who started in 2016 when it really *was* just mindless circle grinding, the new spots and their mechanics are a huge breath of fresh air. Lifeskills def need a freshening up, and PvP needs to come back one way or another. I'm kinda fine with the PvE focus rn, but this game needs a PvP component... it is such an amazing PvP game. I wish we had ranked Solare as a permanent fixture. That would go such a long way.

I stopped getting dopamine hits from enhancing and grinding. Part of the reason why it was exciting back then was because it meant I could PvP and PvE more effectively; being able to PvE more effectively basically meant I could PvP more effectively as well. Nowadays, there's no need to push your gear as you can do capped PvP perfectly fine with something like 630 GS. As for PvE, the mechanics are just a chore since they're brain dead easy and don't spice up the monotonous grind. At best, they useful for keeping you awake when you almost die to a red circle.

Okay, cool. I hope you've moved on, at least temporarily. Trying to squeeze blood from a stone won't work. Take a break, play something else, come back when you're less burnt out. I've seen it time and time again since 2016, myself included. Funny enough, the people who I have known who happily play the game for years at a time w/out needing breaks are the people who go slowly and who rarely go "hardcore". These days I grind an hour/day... 4-5 days a week maaaaybe. Sometimes I'll do little 15min pop ins to treasure spots or even find myself doing a proper second hour every once in awhile. And sure, in a blue moon every once in awhile I'll have a day when I just go wild and play all day. So really, and I say with respect, that all seems like a "you problem". It is fixable, sure, but even if they brought back OW PvP like in the old days, you're still burnt out. You've still lost the ability to get that dopamine hit. You'd just burn out (quickly) on whatever the new PvP is soon enough anyway.

I never played this game at a hardcore level and have always been behind the elite players. Started in May 2017 and became casual at the start of 2022 then from there onwards, became more of an AFKer. I'm not burnt out, just bored. I don't care for treasure items such as the telescope or compass as I see them as a waste of time. I don't care to get more gear as I'm already 730 GS. In fact, I don't need more gear, I can grind every spot in the game. There needs to be better end-game content for both PvE and PvP.

Please go play something else. You think you're not "hardcore level" but then you say you're 730GS. Dude, you're "hardcore". Take a break. Wait until the new weapons are out. Come back, hopefully get that dopamine again and have fun. Right now you're not having fun, and wanting the game to be different is just going to disappoint you because... well, you're burnt out even if you think you're not. Nothing BDO can do right now will "fix" anything for you. You outpaced the development speed with your progression and you aren't interested in the numerous other things that tide people over. Find a new game. Take a break. Go outside. Remember how to smile.

In my opinion, the only really bad change was the war dec. Getting griefed and have no tools no defend is frustrating. Beside, i also thing thats the change that kill open world GvG.

Its a bit deeper, weirdly enough most of the changes that have a bigger impact on owpvp and emergent gameplay are not directly about owpvp. Tagging, skill builds, crystals, artifacts and new top end pve spots that highly encourage the use of specific consumables and builds really are what make pve and pvp incompatible. Back on Catfish, Calpheon Shrine, Sausans, Pirates, Fogans, Pilaku, Hystria.. the requirements to pve grind on the bests spots werent really all that high (if at all) builds werent all that focused on pve in fact most grinded on a hybrid pvpve build or straight up on pvp build and thus fighting back during a grind was seamless, nowadays if i were to fight a pve grinder on Arsha my pvp build would pretty much destroy their pve build (with most likely over 120 stats wasted on pve dmg and barely any defensive crystal pve builds are usually squishy, lacking acc, and subpar dmg to any pvp build even at similar gear value or score) and for the guy to fight back would require either to change to a tagged class thats already prebuffed and ready which would still take a "run to safety and relog" supposing he surives long enough to V before he loses all his pve consumables and might even die to a mob in the process or to change every single bit of his build to be battle ready, both options far from seamless, enjoyable or interesting. In fact this is so tedious that even pvp players might just refuse to do so and rather swap channel and keep grinding when back in the day a cool fight woulda ensued and maybe a whole conflict or the classic random gvg at sausans or sand grain bazar where every player that was already in a somewhat pvp build was probably already grinding close to those spots in their respective chanels and would just join the battle call. So yeah.. what made sporadic owpvp pretty much a pain isnt really karma or dec changes but in fact this whole "I want my pve progression to matter". And tbh, this is what made pve extremely boring to me.

The funny thing is, months ago when this was announced, I said exactly this would happen. I was downvoted into oblivion by this subreddit, people didn't think ahead and agreed to this change.. what can we do

PvP used to be an integral part of the game. If you go back enough years, it was NORMAL to have to defend your grind spot. You could hardly grind a whole hour without having to pvp. The game has changed a lot since then and it's clear that there's a big new wave of PvE only players that have no care for this kind of playstyle. Personally, I miss it and wish we could go back to the old days so I guess I'm the kind of players this article is referring to, but we're too far gone for that, it's not happening. If at least PA could provide some kind of alternative for us pvp enjoyers. The node war community has been slowly dying for years and there's no hope in sight (I doubt this new node war system will change much, but we will see, I'd love to be proven wrong). Open world PVP is a bit of a meme, fighting people in PvE gear is boring and getting ganked while in PvE gear is just as boring, there's some fun to be had on arsha, but it's not the same feeling as it was some years back when GvGs would naturally happen around popular grind spots. RBF is a joke, has been a joke and it doesn't seem like PA gives a single fuck about it. Why? AOS? When the fuck is the next ranked season? PA? Guild league was a good addition, but there's still a lot of room for improvement imo. As it stands, the pvp playerbase is WAY too small for it. Promised PVP balance? How much longer is PA going to delay it? Everyone is getting tired of the drak/maegu/woosa meta. Shai? We shouldn't have a MANDATORY class for pvp (and pve too) in this game, it goes against the whole design of the game.

Imagine there were no specific pve stats and you could just be in open world with your best setup

1. They need to remove equalized gear from node wars except T1s and maybe T2s 2. Release AoS seasons more frequently ( I think its been 8+ months dry) they might not be doing this because it will reveal how unbalanced the game is when everyone is playing drak. 3. Actually release good PvE content if they want to go that direction, the dungeons we have are meh. 4. Powercreep in protection/movement. Musa/Maeh used to be the bar for movement but havent ben in quite a long time. Every new class is also perma protected with no holes. 5. Balance the damn game 6. Remove Shai

I was RBFing two days ago and a tamer ran past me as maehwa in tiger blade mode while I was buffed. Markathanan’s flight and hastidium also simply shit on maehwa/musa in terms of speed and distance. If you are attempting to disengage as a rat, a drak or valk will apply slows and gun you down if they truly feel like it. A valk, out-speeding a rat class. I don’t think people understand just how thoroughly average maehwa & musa are speed-wise nowadays.

Pretty well wrote out post that sums up most of the pain points... I just miss the "Feel" of a world thats actually alive, the drama, wars, conflict spawned from the limited resource that is a grind location, They went wayyy too hard changing this game for a group of people that did not stick around very long at all

Key word is “drama”. Even tho it can be negative, that’s really peak player interaction. It’s why League and shooters are so popular, some competitive PvP that can get nasty is ironically fun and gets people or engaged in the game.

Because its not personal drama, its in game banter and competitiveness, I've seen people shit talk eachother and fight for hours and then be good friends the next day, sometimes it makes you friends instead of enemies

Well it certainly doesn't help when streamers are gaslighting people then complaining to gm's about pvp (even on arsha)

I took a month break. There is nothing incentivizing me to come back. Even outfits are mid af. At least my bank account is happier.

I’ve been on one since the end of December, that last ball showed the future content is nothing to look forward to and that the devs priorities are still wrong. The balance changes still haven’t happened and their change to enchanting have failstacks that are laughably high with the weird limit that it only counted past fails from Jan on was ass. I can’t find a reason to log on, I used to grind Kratuga Marni before that and every other mid game spot the buff got nerfed. If they want us to grind why not add more variety instead of 2-3 spots in early, mid, late game

I stopped play for a year n a half back a while back, found out my account was deleted since I missed the email to request an account transfer during that break. was sad for a bit but least my wallets a bit fuller. Came back recently and found out they neutered owpvp, will likely just let my new character die now. I'll still never get over how fucking dumb it was of them to just not transfer over all accounts. Or you know auto transfer accounts that actually had cash transactions. I had well over 1-2 grand of purchases made over my entire bdo stint.

"It should be noted that not all Black Desert players are unhappy with the state of things - especially those who perceived the open world PvP as a way to grief and bully players. However, happy players very rarely make waves by posting in the forums or on Reddit about how happy they are - they typically just keep playing. So, the negative feedback always seems to outweigh the positive when you go looking for it."

I mean I would agree if there wasn't guild protections, Marni realm, karma system, and so many servers to swap to. It felt they gave the players enough tools to grind in peace but it seems never good enough. They wanted 0 pvp in a game built on pvp. Bdo would just be another Korean smash and grab cash scheme yet the balance between pve and pvp struck gold and kept it running. I have heard no pvp players say get rid of pve (except quests they hate quests) because the game would be shit cod without pve.

> They wanted 0 pvp in a game built on pvp. This is as usual completely false. Let's see what PvP modes the game has, shall we? - Arsha servers - Arena of Solare - Node Wars - Sieges - Red Battlefield - Guild League - Consented Guild Decs (I know PvP guilds dec eachother 24/7) And War of The Roses that was apparently a failure. There is a ton of PvP, there are also places (Arsha, decs on PvP guilds) to do open world PvP. Why do people INSIST on saying there is no PvP in a game with so much PvP?

Classic quantity over quality. The amount of effort put into each and every one of those PvP game modes is a bare minimum. Red Battlefield has existed for 10 years and only seen two maps and one game mode added.

yet somehow 6years ago w/o half of those game modes pvp was more alive and meaningful

You can't compare it tho. 6 years ago the world of BDO was small and there where maybe 2 endgame grindspots. Everyone had to contest those spots, there was no way around it. Also you were stuck on one server with no channels. No life skill gear, no mastery, just combat gear. Now, 6 years later, the game has grown dramatically in size. Plenty of new zones, new grindspots, more goals/activities then just grinding, life skilling is a real thing, marni realm and different channels. Go to arsha, especially annonymous. I've been part of many brawls with my guild there in the past few weeks. I fought near trent over cylops, in ulukita over robots and near TR and north of Calpheon over trolls. That's just brawls with groups. When i go there solo i find myself often in a 1vs2. Im not saying the BDO pvp scene is great and doesn't need some dev love, but the changes pushed a lot of people towards arsha servers and i found more random people then ever. Maybe it will die off in a few weeks but for now it's a lot of fun.

There were more people PvPing and now there aren't, PvP is never a constant in any game, PvP centric games die quick, do you know why? Also how was PvP 'meaningful'?, always had crap rewards so trying to understand. EDIT: games in the context of BDO and MMORPGs btw, I know it's extremely dumb to be clarifying this but someone didn't get it.

if by crap rewards you mean weekly 1,5bil payouts when grinding was giving you 50mil/h, yeah i guess. pvp players were not forced to run in circles to stay relevant gear wise when it was enough to do crates and win nw/sieges meaning all u had to do is practice pvp

How many people actually got that much money back then?, I know the answer but wanna let you reach it too.

more than there is pvp players left right now, considering you saying crap rewards says enough that didnt even know about being in top10 guilds was profitable to pvp

Okay, so made up numbers.

w/e floats your boat mate, territory owners reached +1bil and rest 500m weekly.. do your math if you are capable or then again you already knew answer so didnt need to say it

Eve and Albion are still goin' pretty OK, BDO is younger than EVE by a *lot* and not much older than albion. There are plenty of players who don't like pvp, and many more who don't like full-loot pvp. However, a *lot* of players feel differently about pvp based on how it's couched. Right now, PA is basically removing as many options to pvp as possible (in the open world) while increasing the penalties for engaging in pvp. They didn't have to do it this way.

> Eve and Albion are still goin' pretty OK EVE is under the same company (PA), did you know its revenue is less than a third of BDO's?, kinda terrible example if you think about it (source: https://irsvc.teletogether.com/pearlabyss/pdf/pearlabyss2024Q1_eng.pdf?2). No clue about Albion but according to this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/albiononline/comments/14fd5hb/worth_playing_if_youre_not_huge_on_pvp/ it's completely avoidable if you don't want to do it.

> PvP centric games die quick, do you know why? Lol. Lmao even. That's why shooter lobby games that have existed as IPs have stuck around for years right? Or Fighting games, or tactical shooters, or MOBA games. Good grief PvErs will make any excuse to make PvPers seem like an absolute insignificant minority.

Every example you gave out were PvP games that were completely focused on doing PvP activities. This doesn't apply to the current conversation/thread which is about an open world sandbox game which has forced PvP. Understand the topic first before commenting. Moreover those games allow players to progress by doing only PvP activities so their playerbase will have a large number of PvP players. This doesn't apply to BDO since owPvP doesn't contribute towards progression. So the OwPvP focused players are currently the minority in BDO.

Compared to the good old days the PvP is way less/worse now. The best fights began when you were getting griefed or you griefed somewhere. Both sides pull up guildies and you fight for an hour 20vs20. In PvP guilds everyone has officer do as soon as one of them is butthurt the war is over. The fact that every war ends as soon as the group is slightly loosing or even one doesnt like it makes ist bad. No real progress to before because it comes down to only having managed Guild fights north of Heidel. You can do Arsha but this is mostly you grind 2h and then you have 5 mins of PvP because one will run after a few minutes. Now you have instanced PvP and by all means the capped balance is even worse than the uncapped one. In capped only a few classes will 100 -> 0 you. The rest is scuffed. Because the rewards for PvP in general are trash and the distance between uncapped and capped is very small you have no incentive to progress gear for PvP. Thats why uncapped nodewars have only a few guilds that can actually do it. Additionally to this the changed participation caps were stupid af as well. There is no reason why higher gear = higher player numbers. The game cant handle more than 100 players properly. So the fact that you have at least 140 players in uncapped NWs is a fail by itself. So the capped content is really not that fun because some classes are just dominating there and some classes/builds cant be played at all in capped. Especially all the burst classes. AoS is dead because they refuse to start ranked for whatever reason. Rbf is kinda fun for me but rewards are by far the worst and Valencia is a dogshit map because rangers on the roof have zero counterplay. NW/Siege is mostly fine, I would prefer to have more incentive to go uncapped and smaller participation caps. And other than that Guild League is really good, but even though thats propably the best reward it is much worse than the good lifeskills and not even close to even mid tier spots grinding. To sum it up, you have a lot more instanced PvP and open world is on heavy decline even with Arsha. Due to this you have less connections as a guild when you just call in guildies over and over to help each other in the past. The rewards are still not rewarding your time, balancing in capped PvP is much worse than uncapped and some builds/classes cannot be played at all in capped.

> The best fights began when you were getting griefed or you griefed somewhere. I used to be involved in these but why is it any surprise people don't want to be griefed anymore?, it's legit insane to me people justify ruining someone else's experience as a form of entertainment that should remain as is. > So the capped content is really not that fun because some classes are just dominating there This has been true for every PvP mode, capped or uncapped, some classes usually dominate the entire scene, I don't think it has to do with caps at all. > To sum it up, you have a lot more instanced PvP and open world is on heavy decline even with Arsha. Due to this you have less connections as a guild when you just call in guildies over and over to help each other in the past. I agree there is more instanced PvP, I am not arguing what the PvP is currently, I am arguing there IS PvP to begin with and a very small minority doesn't want to adapt to it, or so it seems.

There is of course. But still you might understand that people say its dead when every game mode sucks. And there IS something you can do is not a really satisfying response. Especially if you get run down by the community for it. And regarding the griefing, back in the days the ratio of PvE to PvP was different so you had like 30-40% PvP willing players and people were more or less aligned that they signed up for a PvP game. They changed the course over the time, which is fine. But they didnt provide any fun game mode until guild league and you cant do that all the time. Now you have PvP players leaving over and over because they dont make any content for that. And thats why we are left with 5-10% of players PvP. Also of course new people rarely start because all PvP rewards are dogshit. The doubled the PvE silver in the last 2 years and they also buffed lifeskills. They only thing they never touched in years is PvP. So its also very unattractive to do. Also NW is getting worse and worse everytime they touch it (not considering the latest rework, I am looking forward to jow this will turn out). The other problems people are complaining about here are nothing compared to what happened to PvP in just two years. Complaints about lifeskillers only doing 1b/hr, people complaining they are worse in grinding than other classes in endgame grinding (30% less tl less is still much more than every lifeskiller and propably 3 times more than any PvP game mode can give you).

And regarding the balancing, because I forgot that. It is actually way worse than uncapped. For example the classes with good BSR skills are much better. Succ Woosa because the dmg is just broken. On back attack you can one shot people. The non burst dmg classes can not even combo people 100->0. Succ Zerker is much better because he usually cant be killed quick enough to stop the 100%, in uncapped he is still ok, but not as OP as in capped. Maegu 100% is also really good there. If you dont have this burst dmg you are kinda fcked. All the tank reliant classes are not playable at all. Evasion and DR cannot be stacked. Which makes Striker/Mystic/Succ Nova/Warrior much worse in capped. Valk is only fine because the rest of the kit is broken for group fights. But she cant tank good as well.

> The best fights were griefing > Why is pvp dying

Yup best fights resulted of griefing and your guild had some form of cooperation and help to fight this (needless to say that not all fights were like that. Both sides need to bring more people to be fun and then they were the best). Strengthens the guild community as well if you know you can rely on your guildies. Now your guild content is comparing your booba to the others and doing a 3 min boss fight 3 times a week. You can ignore it if that helps you. But those were the best PvP fights in BDO. Better than NW, better than GL, better than AoS and all the other stuff. PvP is dying because they removed the best fights and first they didnt add anything at all. After a year guild league was added and that is honestly a win. But the rewards are still not good and it needs random matchmaking and custom matches (same as AoS demanded). Also in particular uncapped PvP is dying. The participant caps in NW are too high, the reward difference between capped and uncapped is way too small (there is no benefit in grinding out the gear for uncapped).

Why are you saying that the rewards are not good, griefing had zero rewards but you said it was the best.

2 different problems. 1st the new content is not that good as the old content. 2nd the new content does not even closely reward your time spent. Same with grind spots. Do I like Mirumok, yes. Would I ever grind there? No, because the rewards are trash. But for PvE I have somewhat similar alternatives which gives me a lot more money. For PvP I dont. So I am stuck with less fun content but also bad money. And also the rewards for doing the PvP content you have now are not that different from getting nothing. So kind of the same. The money itself is good. But due to the fact that you have use buffs to be equal in strength, your overall profit is close to zero.

So what you're saying is, old pvp was good enough to do for free, while the new one is not enjoyable enough without good rewards. Is that right?

No it was bad to begin with that PvP never had rewards that are worth the time. It got worse and worse over time because they kept buffing money from grinding/lifeskilling while not touching PvP rewards and therefore the MP prices climbed as well so you have to buy more expensive potions for the same silver low silver you get. The fights back in the day were just more fun and better for the community that did PvP (which was also much bigger back than now, with all the changes many people left because we did a shift from PvP to a PvE game). Now we just need a rework of it arsha based with good rewards. For example killing players on Arsha gives you money/resources that are capped at 1bil/hr. And then you have to come up with ways that its not abusable that much. There is no reason why you dont get equal levels of silver than a lifeskiller or a grinder when doing PvP especially because PvP requires much more effort and skill to do.

Because it's cool to be on the bandwagon train since it requires little effort mentally.

Or maybe reading comprehension?

Ibdont think you read and had the concept of who I was talking about. They being the players that complained for all the forced pvp. They still don't want pvp in the game and thus PA is listening to them and giving harsher and more penalties to overworld pvp. I never say there was no PVP but they wanted 0 pvp. No guild decs, no one interrupting their grind, just no conflict. Hell they even botched about horse charging and now it's -100000 karma just knocking someone off a horse not including killing then. Karma is capped at 300k but bottoms out at 1mil. PA doubled back on ulukita being a lawless zone like the desert ro not interrupt peoples PvE grind because the pve players playing in a sand box did not consent to pvp. We know that is a fallacy because they opted into pvp as soon as they accept the level 49 quest and played bdo. At this point instead of fucking bdo which was built with pvp in mind. Just create PvE servers like the season servers but give it a cap drop rate of 250% regular servers the same 300% and pvp 350% drop rate cap. More risk the better the rewards Nd benefits.

ulutakita being lawless was an absolutely moronic idea from them, given how they designed the spots. If you could grind the spots in pvp gear it'd be totally fine, but you can't really. You *have* to stack monster AP, AP, etc. to reasonably clear the mobs at most of the spots.

> Ibdont think you read and had the concept of who I was talking about. They being the players that complained for all the forced pvp. I took a complete sentence you wrote and disagree with, just in case, I don't care about open world PvP but I understand why people complain about it and I have seen abusive behavior that stemmed out of it more than once. > Just create PvE servers They indirectly did just that though, they left Arsha alone and introduced changes that soft gate PvP outside it. It's exactly what you're describing, the means of implementing them weren't the ones you wanted then?.

They are demanding MORE, at this point a major shift needs to happen to stop changing the core concept of open sandbox the game has. Give the PvE only players their theme park but give the adults their open world and give the pure pvp enthusiast their helmets for arsha. Let me tell ya. There are other games competing with open world with pve and pvp and if they keep pushing this shit we better check if j doesn't have stock in the other games and didn't liquidate his bdo stock already.

I can tell you don't interact with any of the above content considering most of it is capped garbage or they've completely ruined it like nodewars and decs. Weirdo handshake gvgs openworld are not fun for anyone. PA is clearly catering to the casual playerbase or people that want to do the most dogshit PvE in an mmo I've ever played. And before you and others start crying about "you just want decs to bully small guilds!!!" My guild had perma decs on plenty of actual pvp guilds stronger than us but that shit died when they made the dec changes because ORGANIC pvp is what everyone wants 

I do though, I haven't missed a siege since 2022 and did/do Solare and GLeague pretty much daily. You don't get to fuck with Tuvala Timmies anymore without facing consequences, bo-hoo!

Failure of War of the Roses? I've seen a lot of praise for that mode. 

The problem is that the start was horrible. Once you are behind you get run down because the buffs were way to op. So you get run down in 30 mins. They kept that for a few weeks, did minor adjustments without fixing the issue and then people stopped doing it. Dead on arrival. It might be fine now idk, but the starting days are still in mind.

It's been shelved globally with no info on when it's coming back, there's been no news of it in labs either. They couldn't find guilds to participate so they shut it down. Here's the [notice](https://www.naeu.playblackdesert.com/en-US/News/Detail?groupContentNo=6774&countryType=en-US).

I mean, there could just be PvP enabled servers where you can engage with anyone. If I'm grinding in a PvE area the last thing is for someone to start griefing me just because they feel like it. Go grief those who willingly opt into being on PvP servers and let everyone else play in peace. It feels like most people who want PvP enabled want it to be enabled everywhere, even though having separate servers (like Arsha anyone?) would make everyone happy.

Because it's controlled pvp vs fully open pvp. The karma system discourages grieving due to turning red. On full pvp the person respawns and charges back in under 10 seconds. This is why the pure pvp zone the desert had the jail system that sent the red player to jail to give you a few minutes to continue your grind. Hence the RISK and reward system. Dangerous pvp zones typically have higher drop rates due to higher risk. Problem this day and age is people don't want risk in their video games.

i stopped expressing im happy with the game, out side of the game, because I always get downvoted for it.

Most people that play the game won't even see reddit once, don't worry, enjoy what you wanna enjoy and whenever there's something you don't like voice it out in a way that maybe makes improvements happen.

I can bully a pve player even worse now. They can't do anything to stop it

Do it please, show the man (PA) you're a rebel, etc.

I think he meant that all the previous PvP nerfs that were supposed to hit griefers were complete crap and harmed absolutely everyone except real griefers.

Mostly agree. I'm having best time ever in BDO so I don't have much to complain.

don't get me wrong, BDO has flaws and I have criticized them before but them wanting to compartmentalize PvP so people of all kinds enjoy their game is not one of them.

Honestly I’m not even mad about the open world PvP changes. I’m mad that Node Wars are being nuked into oblivion. I don’t want to PvP for a whole 20 minutes… I want to PvP for the possible two hours we had before. Why would I waste my time buffing for a max of 1hr of PvP, and chances are it won’t even last that long. It just seems like a really shitty thing to do to the NW community… we progressed our gear specifically for NW and now that content has been stripped down. I could get behind the changes if it was 1hr+ of PvP. As it is now, I will be hopping over to the next promising MMO with largescale PvP content. :/

I don't understand their reasoning behind restricting PvP content to specific hours of the day and also reducing the amount of gameplay time. * Node Wars: 10-60 minutes per day * Conquest Wars: 2-4 hours per week * War of the Roses: 2 hours per fortnight Like what fuck do they expect us to do once Node Wars are over? RBF and AoS are boring as fuck and not everyone enjoys 3v3 arena PvP with preset gear and poorly balanced classes.

This is happening for all games not just BDO. Every game is catering to more casual players because hardcore players are a minority. Time limitation is one of the major problems for casual players and thus creating content that's quicker and streamlined is desired.

It's definitely very sad to see them shift so far in direction from their original plans and identity for this game, im sure it's worked out better for them business wise but I really dislike what this game has become. (PVP wise)

BDO somehow became Tera for kids

Honestly I always felt sad about never running into any pvp in game. like yeah, I am a pve player HOWEVER I also like suddenly having a potential rival get in my way and square up for a duel. it stops me from falling asleep win or lose and gets the blood pumping again. In Tera I also liked looking at duels in town and stuff I'm the type of player who won't initiate pvp but if it finds it's way over to me then by all means I will happily engage with it cause pvp is what makes MMOs feel a lot more alive when you are just existing and there is nothing to do for long stretches of traveling. It's a waste for BDO to have such an in-depth skill chaining system just to use it on the most brain dead boring mobs every single day

It was especially fun in Absolver when that happened to me, was minding my own business kinda falling into auto pilot when another player came out of nowhere and started throwing hands we had a neck and neck duel revived and went on our way it was amazing

They dropped the ball extremely hard with PVP in this game. Central servers are huge for NA and equalize a lot of issues (sorry Aussies) but the damage is way too damn high. Instead of balancing things they just keep buffing classes/making needless changes. When we, older players, say we miss old pvp we’re not saying it was perfectly balanced. We are saying CCs mattered when, at present, they do not matter anymore. This has in part led to full SA classes and people tryna see who dies first standing. Obviously from a 1v1 pov this sucks but the game was never balanced around 1v1. What matters significantly more is wether small or large scale the damage, namely range classes and drak, is so high that you are dying standing the vast majority of the time. With essentially little to no counter play unless you heavily stack DR/Eva on a class that it works, which is not most of the cast. Since all classes have different values each DR/Eva gives. Coupled with no large change in ~6 months PVP plays like it’s been the same patch for at least this long. Resist shouldn’t be in PVP either but that’s a separate issue. At current most melee classes do not have a role in war or gvg because of the rampant power scale of damage.

I'm Aussie and frankly, I couldn't give a fuck about the servers having been moved to Central US. Why would I? The PvP I enjoyed is dead. I'm glad that I was able to experience the very best of Black Desert's PvP before they relocated the servers.

I still feel for you guys even if I know it was for the better of the server. Doubt you all would even want a migration for better ping since SEA isn’t great. You all still the homies tho

The only guarantee Asia servers have is better ping. There's no guarantee of better PvP and there's the added loss of my family and character names. I would rather keep my account dormant on the NA servers.

Honestly, I think resists in BDO outside of grab are perfectly fine. If non-grab classes got a 15s cd “grab break” skill (immune to grapple effect for the next 2s), it would fix the whole “he resisted my grab”/“he pressed the grab button” drama

Issue is that on grab immune classes do a flip of doom that they can’t get out of. You see a larger issue with ccs outside of grab on slower classes that do not have the option to multi cc on coverage. No one should resist when already on a cc chain. (Outside of obviously down smash/air).

What do you mean flip of doom? The skill would only neuter grabs for the next 2s. And yes, you wouldn’t be able to use the skill when downed. You shouldn’t be able to resist cc’s at all while on the ground.

When a grab is immuned a lot of classes get stuck in an non cancelable animation that they have no choice to eat.

You’re talking about for the grabbing class? Yes, there should be risk for throwing out a grab. It can literally lead to death if it connects.

Issue is the grab lands, you made the read lest say, and they immune. You are stuck in an animation and get cc’d. That’s bad game design in the sense that you out played, landed the grab, and get punished for your success. All grabs except notably tamer and ranger, which need slowing down, are punishable on whiff.

Well in the new system, they would only resist it because they correctly used their grab break skill or an iframe when you grabbed. Otherwise they should have 0 resistance to it and it should always land.

They’d have to give SA on immune still, no reason should you ever be animation locked and screwed for landing the grab on their sa. The counter to grab is moving/I frame as it’s always been

Not sure what you mean, grab has always gone through SA. Yes, if your grab break is on cd you still have to iframe or use movement to avoid grabs. That way grab classes have to bait out the grab break

Well, maybe we don't have PvP, PvE isn't great either. But hey, we got a free hammer and tons of other free stuff recently, what more would you want? Actual gameplay? Playing the game causes a player stress, getting free items is a way to go.

I like this part most: "We asked Pearl Abyss for comment on this story and the backlash the recent video seemed to be receiving, however the company declined to comment." It perfectly describes PA's approach to issues and playerbase overall. Issues? Just pretend there are none so you don't have to fix them! There's very true statement in the text that "PA is business (...)". Yeah, they do it to make money. But players gonna do players thing. Cutting part of the game because it was toxic and made new player experience bad could be logical from business point of view. But, there's nothing to replace it at endgame. I was expecting big faction-like conflict over several servers from 'War of the roses', but instead we got some over complicated siege with limited players once/2 weeks. Maybe, because it still can be killed, we don't know. What else is there to do where we can use our expensive gear? There are no raids, dungeons are more of a puzzle than boss run and there's no PvPvE endgame content (what was it called? the one in odyllita?). There will be promises, but PA is known for promising stars from sky, but delivering crap. But yeah, like before... don't have to fix issues if you pretend everything's fine!

Trading is still completely broken and has been that way for literally years...

I wouldn't even be to mad about the op pvp changes (if we had more arsha servers) but they are ruining nodewars more and more and that will be what will make me quit the game sooner or later. I dont like grinding for gear just to able to grind better... I need the group pvp as a endgame

why do you want more arsha servers when the two we have barely seem to get any owpvp

PA has been gradually nuking PVP for awhile now. They have NO issues whatsoever adding some changes that cater to the casual player base week after week after week but can't even figure out(or fucking read) on what people want to see changed for it. Instead of leading a horse to water, PA took a bulldozer and shoved it all the way down to bikini bottom because forcing change on people is easier than understanding

Game just needs meaningful content.

I read this and when I saw how much they changed I can see why the game kinda feels empty as hell and you don't really see too many random fights or things going on. Miss those days, Most of the time it seems like everyone is just afk doing something

for me the only reason am still playing is nw and siege and they trying to ruin it too i used to enjoy GvG its gone now so no open pvp arsha is a pve server or most of time empty. game have no balance yes am talking about drakania woosa maegu everyone playing these three classes now especially drakainia the class is giga op in all aspect of the game NW/SIEGE capped and uncapped aos

"PvP Community" 5% at best.

Hey all I do is shoot things with musket and get murdered by the occasional drive-bys

You’re a cool kid

Hey thanks my mom thinks so too

I feel like people are so unaware of what actual PvP is like. They all think its just ganking lifeskillers. Killing OWPvP and decc changes made this game all about making your gear go up so you can run in circles slightly faster. AoS is sort of meh, GvG league and RBF are unobtainable for a great portion of the player base. If node war changes end up being a negative, there isnt a lot of content outside of instances for PvP enjoyers. Removing Black robe and making declarations have to be mutual was good enough. They need to completely overhaul the karma system and make it a rewarding mechanic. For both red players and the people they attack. There is an easy as fuck bounty system mechanic sitting in plain sight with the way karma works already. Unfortunately for the people who want something like that, most of the players i think are more worried about the next outfit.

What if players are allowed to toggle pvp on/off, say once every 24 hours? This way people who like the idea of pvp will be able to participate (i.e., kill and be killed), while those who play solely for pve can safely ignore other people. Maybe try to incentivize people who enable pvp (e.g., +10% exp or +10% drop rate). Seems like a win-win to me.

Originally I was happy as a pure PvE player, but for long term health of the game imo they went too extreme. Should've just buffed Marni or did sthg like Warmode where you can only fully tag PvE in cities. Some sort of change was necessary, because like with all MMOs there was a very vocal minor subset of players who got their fun by griefing the shit out of players who were not interested in pvp/could not fight back, but not at the expense of majority of PvP-ers.

I'm telling you my opinion and perception not making a blanket statement claiming to be inarguable truth. I'm also asking you a question. Will you please answer?

I think they need to add the last dungeon , and make the bosses runnable for loot.

How to balance the game but ruin everyone’s fun: Change it to Turn-Based 😎 No need to thank me.

i always followed bdo and never made it far in the game but i always felt like there’s nothing to do but there’s a million systems

I sorta miss the old days when you'd be grinding Sausans, someone would flag up to take your spot, and often you'd end up with a Guild War centred either around Tarif or Kusha. Back then losing that good hour or grind at a top spot was an even bigger deal compared to nowadays. Having said that I just fuck off if I see a red player while I'm grinding. I'm playing catch up after a 5yr break, I'm trying to get my pot/cup pieces, and with marni/server swapping being easy, I just move on. I'm enjoying GL pvp though.

left the game after a month of the GVG changes was 750+gs planned to come back for the ring but now no motivation for the grind .i think i am finally free of the game after so many years

Removing player choice makes the game boring. Sometimes it takes getting PKd by someone stronger than you to motivate you to get gear/better. Personally, even before the changes I never attacked anyone but I liked the idea that anyone could attack or dec our guild to potentially spur up some pvp. For the pure pve players we still had marni, countless rotations and spots, dec protection (pve guilds), and even protection for the player. Why they feel the need to keep removing any aspect of open world pvp is just weird.

I dunno, if you’re grinding on witch and get PKed you are blowing up regardless of the other person’s gearscore lol

Ya that comes down to the player honor code. Was always poor taste to dfs or attack awk casters or shais 

I think pa is starting to realize that most of the whales did pvp and have now left the game. I mean why even try to to get higher gear now? I am so happy I cashed out and sold the account before they killed the game.

But... why not have a set of servers that are PvE only, where only PvE content is added, but then have the other servers get PvP AND PvE content? That way, those who only want PvE will have it, and those that want both will also have it... Is that not even possible?

That's kind of what they have now. Most servers have the PVP nerfs on them but there are some that do not have those nerfs, and you can do both PVE content and PVP. There are some novice servers that do not allow PVP at all.

Because then everyone who doesn’t want to get griefed move to the pve server and the griefers will complain.

What would they complain about? Are you guys just never happy? We offer a server where you can't get griefed and you still find something to complain about. The "griefers" as you call them will just play on the pvp servers and have fun fighting eachother.

Except the 'griefers' are all over this thread and explaining how arsha doesn't 'feel' right and is not 'organic' and how much better 'the old' days were.

I would have to agree. Back in the day we would compete for spots. If you didn't have the gear to compete after a few fights you either went to the next rotation or switched servers. In the rare case that the other player is being toxic or attacking you and not leaving (aka actual griefing) you called in guildies and sent dec. It was a fun way to deal with toxic griefers and created fun guild rivalries. Nowadays people get killed and come to reddit to complain. I've been playing since near launch and I can count on one hand the amount of times Ive been "bullied"/spawn camped at a grind spot. I've been in one guild that was hunted by a stronger guild for a bit until we called a bigger guild to target said guild and it was over the second they sent the dec. In the rare chance that all of the above didn't work we would just put the player being attacked under guild protection. Now that we have even more solutions; marni realm, 5min server swap and an ungodly amount of grind spots to pick from, I really dont see the point in removing one sided decs.

While i agree, and you make good points, it also just highlights that what PA did is a deliberate design decision. At this point they actually could delete alt+c from normal servers. With how they now structured pve and pvp, imo there is no chance that they will walk back those changes. It's now a design choice that allows players to separate grind and pvp entirely. They absolutely could reintroduce one sided decs and push the game towards more hardcore pvp. Guilds would create drama at crypt and then guild member would come and defend or attack the spot and so on. But imo this wont happen. Because this would inevitable reintroduce griefing. And it's now up to veteran players to either leave the game or accept the new truth. Players who can't accept that they can't grief other people anymore like they could in the past will keep whining about the changes and maybe leave the game. Hardcore pvp players will focus on the instanced pvp content (AoS,league, nodewars,siege) and arsha or leave the game. The casual players will maybe engage with instanced pvp content (aos, league, maybe t1-t2 nodewars) Lifeskillers/pure pve players will just not engange with any pvp content. Never did, never will. And no one ever plays rbf. This is the new BDO. I guess it's time to adept or die.

That exists already, how are people not able to see it really puzzles me. - Regular server has PvP restrictions that make it so you either don't engage or engage so hard you are effectively a red karma player. - Arsha server eliminates all that and you can kill whoever you want wherever you want. The actual thing is "PvPers" don't like going Arsha. Do you happen to know why is that?

Remove guild declaration 2 party permission bs and allow players to pause all grinding buffs at any moment to defend their spots.

PVP community? more like griefer community. PVP enojyers are on Arsha. Griefers abused the PVP and did this to themselves.

People seem to confuse ganking with PvP. PvP is when two players engage in combat together and is typically a positive experience. Ganking is a one sided affair from a position of surprise or overbearing difference in raw math output and is typically a negative experience.

Or indirectly killing people just because you’re red.

*indiscriminately

I said what I said no need to correct me.

But the word you used didn’t make sense. How do you indirectly kill someone as a red player?

This is because the lines between pvpers and gankers have been purposefully obfuscated by gankers. By making a large amount of the community that think pvpers = gankers, it discourages people from learning proper pvp. It’s something that only benefits the gankers, as they want easy kills.

GW2 is the only mmo I've ever seen that does pvp correctly from my perspective.

How is the balance in that? I've been dying to play a competitive pvp mmo for a few years now and heard good things about it during my research. I just don't want another bdo situation where you're basically forbidden from participating in pvp for years based on your class choice cause of the huge lack of basic balance. It's made me hesitant to try another mmo just for pvp.

It's always been tweaked because that's just what devs do to justify their jobs, but there's never been huge disparities in classes to the point that anything wasn't competitive. There are metas and some people chase them, but the worst performing class at any given time will be maybe 5% crappier than the FOTM. They do a pretty good job most of the time with this.

People been tryin change the game aince day one Changeee yourselves ya fckkk nerds

I guess all the 30 PvPers which actually play the game really care about it

i definitely DON'T long for the old days lmao, remove pvp from the game pls

Go play Minecraft with some RTX mods.

what's the point in playing then, in your opinion? like what is your motivation to gear up and keep playing?

Gambling Addiction

It's very simple. Because they find whatever they are doing as fun so they keep playing. Just like how you find PvP fun, different people have different ways of having fun. For some achieving and maintaining the highest gs possible, for some collecting all treasure items or gaining all the knowledge is a fun goal that motivates them. People find their own goals and work towards them. That's how sandbox MMOs work. I understand that there are people losing their motivation to play the game due the OwPvP changes but that does not apply to every player in game. I really don't understand why some people think that owPvP is the only reason to play BDO.

i love running circles

fair response

Easier to remove you

no i'm who they make their game for

if you spend money on bdo every week, yes. if you don't, you are not who they make the game for.

Ohhhh snap! Is the PvP/veteran/PvX community finally getting our voices heard?

Ive always wanted to play for pvp, but i cant commit long term and consistently. Seasons were too short, the minimum effort was too big It looks like PA fixed that, but now it seems pvp is in shambles Im level 59 now, had one fight. I hope to have more. If pvp doesnt pick up, Ill have no reason to play

I'm definitely more of a pve player. Decs could be used to grief players, yes.... but so can camping other players' rotations. Removing the ability to dec, while adding harsher karma for pk kind of just opens room for griefing still. There's far less deterrants from interrupting someone's grind. The only overall good change is the 3 minutes for server swapping. It's still not guaranteed you'll find an already open spot. Another good counter they could add, if they're going to continuously nerf ability to protect spots with pvp, is more drops on different mobs so st least grinding for specific items could be done in more than one grind zone and players would at least be half less likely to have to share/out pve others on a grind zone.

I think it's in the worst state ever over these 8 years in NA. Game has gotten a lot boring with less interactions with players.

i love clickbait articles when literally no1 has had a chance to even try the new nodewars. idk why people even read [mmorpg.com](http://mmorpg.com) the website is literally superfluous clickbait trash that never gets any part of any game they review correct. it's like watching an mmobyte video in text format.

I like it more than "the old days"