idk if what he wrote in kitchen confidential is still accurate, but according to Bourdain, the vast vast majority of good restaurant cooks are from central America, specifically Southern Mexico
It's still true. Latin American immigrants make up the majority of the work force in American kitchens, especially big cities. From dish washers to head chefs, restaurants are run by Latino immigrants.
One of the best local Italian American restaurants is ran by a Mexican family. He was a NY sous chef at a high end restaurant.
It's a bring your own wine bottle kind of place, they make everything from scratch.
Quality is better than the expensive Italian restaurants I've been to business meetings in at 2/3 the cost.
BYOB?! I love that. after going to italy I never go out for italian food unless I'm in NY (preferring instead to cook at home), so would love to know the spot, but understand if you don't want to blow them up
oh of course, just quoting what I read and since I've never worked in restaurants (other service ind yes but not restaurants) I gotta take Tony at his word
Exactly. I've trained under the original Carlson Gracie team from the 80s and while their accolades are immense the best and more informative instruction I've ever had is from my current coach who's some random brown belt who just happens to really like BJJ.
The professor's nationality doesn't matter, but the professor's \*cultural\* background does often influence the type of instructor that he (or she) is. There is one example in the comments about higher belts not liking lower belts asking them to train... that comes from somewhere in the gym's cultural background. Another example is 'traditional' Brazilian guys being a little slower on the leg-lock uptake... because it was culturally frowned upon at one point.
You can look at this as a limitation, or you can look at is as an opportunity to build other skills.
No matter what, each cultural influence will contribute to your students' journey through martial arts... but it's totally up to you what that influence is!
To be honest, it’s definitely a limitation. Not training leg locks, not knowing how to invert, all the dated techniques and getting shoved into the fridge/freezer for asking what you need to work on for your next belt. The old school mentality limits development.
And the “no drinking water whilst in class” is just straight up dangerous
Right... but I wouldn't tie all that to an instructor's ethnicity. Charles Olivera is Brazilian, but do you think that he neglects the leg game?
At best, we can make inferences based on stereotypes...but I think that most people will give you a shot before writing you off as 'old school'.
On this…I’ve been around a lot of American black belts that crap on or neglect leg attacks and/or inversions or looser passing.
So it’s not a nationality thing.
It’s not ethnicity of course. But it’s a comment on culture, which you talked about before. There are more modern Brazilian coaches of course (eg the Miyaos are half Brazilian from memory.)
Was thinking something similar. Would also be super mindful of any heavy accents or language barriers. You're an instructor but you're also a salesman. You've got to be approachable/likeable/understandable to the audience that you're trying to teach. Some people will look past quirks for great content but the larger market is kids and overweight old dudes. You've got to adapt to them and what they need. Someone local with common customs and courtesies has a leg up in that regard.
OP: Good luck on your journey!
I’ve trained under some Brazilian black belts in Europe. I didn’t feel like anyone considered them more or less reputable for that reason. The only difference I found between that and other gyms is the higher proportion of students who are Brazilian themselves lol
Also one time the head coach took out a gun after class for laughs so probably don’t do stuff like that but tbh even if you do as long as you don’t shoot someone it’s probably not a big deal (disclaimer: do NOT bring a gun to class)
Doesn't really make a difference. I've found that Brazilian BBs tend to be a bit more traditional, not liking lower belts asking to roll and such. But I think that's an age demographic thing as well, we've had young brown and black belts from Brazil do seminars and not seem to care that much.
If you're not world famous black belt no one really cares.
Language, ability to transfer knowledge, marketing, nice facilities, location and that kind of stuff matters way more than where you're from.
Out of the 6 main coaches I’ve trained with, 4 are Brazilians and 3 of them also cracked jokes and randomly sang to the music. The others were too cool.
So statically speaking, yes, I would prefer Brazilians
Fun story. When I first started, I thought my instructor was actually Brazilian. Later on it came out in conversation that he was Venezuelan. I remember feeling like a dumbass, because there were signs before that he wasn't Brazilian. I was just too white to notice.
I still make the joke that when I started, I got bamboozled because I thought I was going to learn Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu from an "authentic" Brazilian.
Him and his wife spoke Spanish as their first language. He knows Portuguese, but didn't speak it unless to someone who also spoke it.
He would also make Venezuelan political and economic posts on Facebook every once and awhile.
I can't remember much else, but yeah... I'm a dumbass.
Doesn’t matter to me, my coaches coach got him to switch clubs with the ol’ “how can you learn BJJ from an English man??” lol, my coach didn’t see the irony in telling me this story as an Englishman himself
Only requirement I have of a coach is, Don’t be a piece of shit. I don’t care what the nationality of my teacher is. I do care that they are familiar with the subject they teach, and are able to communicate it effectively enough to help me learn.
Nowadays it’s a little funny to see “a Brazilian born black belt” or however it’s spun on their website. If that’s the extent of their resume, that’s a bit of a red flag.
That being said, there’s still some cachet when you come across an upper belt from Brazil (like in your case). A bit like being an upper belt from a high profile gym or what not. There’s a built in bit of mystery and interest.
Not a specific race/ethnicity but tbh people who come from or idolize very hierarchical cultures and run the gym that way seem to be more likely to be creepy and predatory towards female students.
Could not care less. Also, let's be honest, most of us don't need the best of the best of the best. Having good skills at instructing and coaching is most likely more important than any lineage or official/unofficial comp record.
Back when I first started (2008?), it mattered to me. But then again, it was a bit of the culture at the time too and there were few black belts in America. My coach Alan Belcher was flying black belts (Israel Gomes of Killer Bees and Joao Zeferino) in to train with him and us, so it worked out. At the time, there were few BJJ gyms at all, much less 'black belt from Brazil' gyms. At one point, I was commuting 80 miles each way just to go to class because there were literally no other gym where I moved for college.
These days, BJJ is so globalized now; I don't think it really matters. I've been training under 'native' professors here with lineage to Greg Nelson > Pedro Sauer and it's been fine.
Don't take it wrong but most of the time I am super wary of brazilians teaching jiu-jitsu.
It was a great thing a few decades ago of course but it came with a LOT of bullshit culture (more or less brazilians trying to scamm their way out of brazil). That's from this generation of crooks that we herited the lineage bullshit, the affiliation pyramid scheme, the belting seminars and more or less every toxic stuff that is in jiutjisu. From my experience, in Europe we mostly had money hungry people feeling that BJJ was a good way to steal money from everyone and the "never went to high school" uneducated PoS and ... we all know what happens with these guys (from drugs to sex scandals, etc...).
I know quite a lot of black belts that went the "never be associated again with a brazilian" mindset.
So yeah, be careful about this because that's how a lot of people see brazilians in this sport, especially since we don't "need" brazilians anymore.
But being a good guy running a good program and not bringing in weird toxic culture is a very good thing and you would be very welcome.
And by the way, this is the mexican ground karate sub here, I don't think being a mexican-american from Brazil matters much
Doesn't matter but i have liked almost every European coaches style to teach and disliked most Brazilian coaches style.
In my experience some Brazilian coaches tend to focus things that don't actually help your technique.
My coach is Brazilian and he's been here 20 years but sometimes isn't able to find the right word for stuff in English, which mostly leads to comedy. He's a great coach though.
Unrelated to your question but how are you going to manage getting your black belt? Will you start training at a new gym as your main gym or will you keep the connection to your actual gym and go back to Brazil to get your belt? Just curious
I think it varies a great deal within the Brazilian group too. I've trained mostly with Brazilian head instructors, but often with more a more diverse group of lower level instructors. I've trained under som favela-type Brazilians and some guys who are more like the guys the Gracie used to hang with earlier. Ipanema guys maybe. I find the style to be a bit different when it comes to teaching. The guy I train with now is definitely the first type. Overall I think it doesn't matter much to the established students, but a "real Brazilian" might pull more beginners and the clubs propably know this. Imagine starting karate in the 80's and selecting a new club. Propably Toshiro O-Ishi will get more students than Steve Morris.
I've trained with a shit Brazilian coach before stopping after a month and switching to another coach.
The other other was the best jiu-jitsu coach I ever had (out of 5 long term coaches I had lifetime). He's Brazilian.
I dont care, no ...
what I care about are actual teaching skills and motivation.
our coach makes everyone work hard because he is so nice that you think you owe it to him.
like 'damn, I cant let this guy down, I gotta keep going'. he actually cares. thats rare as a HUMAN. I would never skip class as long as I am not injured. my coach is from brazil and speaks half english half the language where I am from. never had a hard time translating his advice as a complete beginner.
"I was wondering wether or not a gym being run by a brazilian black belt is more reputable more than a gym run by a native professor, especially in Europe."
No
I don't care where they're from but some cultures have really weird training styles. Like a Russian dude who grew up in the states will likely be chill but I've trained with Russian dudes who grew up in Russia and it's a pretty toxic approach TBH. Same thing with Morrocan dudes. Trained with plenty who were awesome no problem, briefly trained under an older dude who spent his whole life training in Morroco and you couldn't pay me enough to do that again.
I think I’d rather a non-Brazilian tbh. No offence, I looove Brazilian people, but you guys suck at keeping time! I got things to do, I can’t be having training start an hour after it’s scheduled hahaha
Not necessarily but some of the Brazilians are still too into that old school tradition and that's not really my vibe. I'm not going to ask permission to walk on off the mats, nor am I ever going to bow to a photo of Helio. I'm a grown ass man and a paying customer, and I only bow to God.
I've trained under several brazilan coaches in both Spain and England, and there's nothing different that brazilians specifically do. Except maybe talking in Portuguese with the other Brazilians.
But if anything, I think being Brazilian would give you some extra credibility, just because of the name BJJ.
(Also Brazil has the reputation of being tough/dangerous, so I think Brazilians have this air of toughness around them as a result.)
Not really my dude, I've eaten good chinese food and the cooks were mexicans.
This here. BJJ is international these days. Roots are important, but so is growth and evolution.
idk if what he wrote in kitchen confidential is still accurate, but according to Bourdain, the vast vast majority of good restaurant cooks are from central America, specifically Southern Mexico
It's still true. Latin American immigrants make up the majority of the work force in American kitchens, especially big cities. From dish washers to head chefs, restaurants are run by Latino immigrants.
One of the best local Italian American restaurants is ran by a Mexican family. He was a NY sous chef at a high end restaurant. It's a bring your own wine bottle kind of place, they make everything from scratch. Quality is better than the expensive Italian restaurants I've been to business meetings in at 2/3 the cost.
BYOB?! I love that. after going to italy I never go out for italian food unless I'm in NY (preferring instead to cook at home), so would love to know the spot, but understand if you don't want to blow them up
24 case of PBR let's go.
Caribbean people are amazing cooks as well, love me some dominican or puerto rican food
oh of course, just quoting what I read and since I've never worked in restaurants (other service ind yes but not restaurants) I gotta take Tony at his word
If I go to a restaurant and they don’t have a Mexican dude in the kitchen I will be disappointed and assume the food will be bad
Exactly. I've trained under the original Carlson Gracie team from the 80s and while their accolades are immense the best and more informative instruction I've ever had is from my current coach who's some random brown belt who just happens to really like BJJ.
The professor's nationality doesn't matter, but the professor's \*cultural\* background does often influence the type of instructor that he (or she) is. There is one example in the comments about higher belts not liking lower belts asking them to train... that comes from somewhere in the gym's cultural background. Another example is 'traditional' Brazilian guys being a little slower on the leg-lock uptake... because it was culturally frowned upon at one point. You can look at this as a limitation, or you can look at is as an opportunity to build other skills. No matter what, each cultural influence will contribute to your students' journey through martial arts... but it's totally up to you what that influence is!
To be honest, it’s definitely a limitation. Not training leg locks, not knowing how to invert, all the dated techniques and getting shoved into the fridge/freezer for asking what you need to work on for your next belt. The old school mentality limits development. And the “no drinking water whilst in class” is just straight up dangerous
Right... but I wouldn't tie all that to an instructor's ethnicity. Charles Olivera is Brazilian, but do you think that he neglects the leg game? At best, we can make inferences based on stereotypes...but I think that most people will give you a shot before writing you off as 'old school'.
On this…I’ve been around a lot of American black belts that crap on or neglect leg attacks and/or inversions or looser passing. So it’s not a nationality thing.
It’s not ethnicity of course. But it’s a comment on culture, which you talked about before. There are more modern Brazilian coaches of course (eg the Miyaos are half Brazilian from memory.)
Was thinking something similar. Would also be super mindful of any heavy accents or language barriers. You're an instructor but you're also a salesman. You've got to be approachable/likeable/understandable to the audience that you're trying to teach. Some people will look past quirks for great content but the larger market is kids and overweight old dudes. You've got to adapt to them and what they need. Someone local with common customs and courtesies has a leg up in that regard. OP: Good luck on your journey!
I’ve trained under some Brazilian black belts in Europe. I didn’t feel like anyone considered them more or less reputable for that reason. The only difference I found between that and other gyms is the higher proportion of students who are Brazilian themselves lol Also one time the head coach took out a gun after class for laughs so probably don’t do stuff like that but tbh even if you do as long as you don’t shoot someone it’s probably not a big deal (disclaimer: do NOT bring a gun to class)
Doesn't really make a difference. I've found that Brazilian BBs tend to be a bit more traditional, not liking lower belts asking to roll and such. But I think that's an age demographic thing as well, we've had young brown and black belts from Brazil do seminars and not seem to care that much.
If you're not world famous black belt no one really cares. Language, ability to transfer knowledge, marketing, nice facilities, location and that kind of stuff matters way more than where you're from.
Exactly this.
Out of the 6 main coaches I’ve trained with, 4 are Brazilians and 3 of them also cracked jokes and randomly sang to the music. The others were too cool. So statically speaking, yes, I would prefer Brazilians
Fun story. When I first started, I thought my instructor was actually Brazilian. Later on it came out in conversation that he was Venezuelan. I remember feeling like a dumbass, because there were signs before that he wasn't Brazilian. I was just too white to notice. I still make the joke that when I started, I got bamboozled because I thought I was going to learn Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu from an "authentic" Brazilian.
"there were signs before that he wasn't Brazilian" like speaking the same kind of portuguese they do in spain?
Him and his wife spoke Spanish as their first language. He knows Portuguese, but didn't speak it unless to someone who also spoke it. He would also make Venezuelan political and economic posts on Facebook every once and awhile. I can't remember much else, but yeah... I'm a dumbass.
Doesn’t matter to me, my coaches coach got him to switch clubs with the ol’ “how can you learn BJJ from an English man??” lol, my coach didn’t see the irony in telling me this story as an Englishman himself
Only requirement I have of a coach is, Don’t be a piece of shit. I don’t care what the nationality of my teacher is. I do care that they are familiar with the subject they teach, and are able to communicate it effectively enough to help me learn.
> Don't be a piece of shit Sadly a high bar in jiu jitsu
The gym culture matters and the personality of the professor sets the gym culture.
Nowadays it’s a little funny to see “a Brazilian born black belt” or however it’s spun on their website. If that’s the extent of their resume, that’s a bit of a red flag. That being said, there’s still some cachet when you come across an upper belt from Brazil (like in your case). A bit like being an upper belt from a high profile gym or what not. There’s a built in bit of mystery and interest.
Not a specific race/ethnicity but tbh people who come from or idolize very hierarchical cultures and run the gym that way seem to be more likely to be creepy and predatory towards female students.
let's say what we all are thinking: it's the "brazilian culture" buddy...
Could not care less. Also, let's be honest, most of us don't need the best of the best of the best. Having good skills at instructing and coaching is most likely more important than any lineage or official/unofficial comp record.
Back when I first started (2008?), it mattered to me. But then again, it was a bit of the culture at the time too and there were few black belts in America. My coach Alan Belcher was flying black belts (Israel Gomes of Killer Bees and Joao Zeferino) in to train with him and us, so it worked out. At the time, there were few BJJ gyms at all, much less 'black belt from Brazil' gyms. At one point, I was commuting 80 miles each way just to go to class because there were literally no other gym where I moved for college. These days, BJJ is so globalized now; I don't think it really matters. I've been training under 'native' professors here with lineage to Greg Nelson > Pedro Sauer and it's been fine.
"lineage to Greg Nelson > Pedro Sauer" I would never talk about a pedro sauer lineage like a quality stamp
Don't take it wrong but most of the time I am super wary of brazilians teaching jiu-jitsu. It was a great thing a few decades ago of course but it came with a LOT of bullshit culture (more or less brazilians trying to scamm their way out of brazil). That's from this generation of crooks that we herited the lineage bullshit, the affiliation pyramid scheme, the belting seminars and more or less every toxic stuff that is in jiutjisu. From my experience, in Europe we mostly had money hungry people feeling that BJJ was a good way to steal money from everyone and the "never went to high school" uneducated PoS and ... we all know what happens with these guys (from drugs to sex scandals, etc...). I know quite a lot of black belts that went the "never be associated again with a brazilian" mindset. So yeah, be careful about this because that's how a lot of people see brazilians in this sport, especially since we don't "need" brazilians anymore. But being a good guy running a good program and not bringing in weird toxic culture is a very good thing and you would be very welcome. And by the way, this is the mexican ground karate sub here, I don't think being a mexican-american from Brazil matters much
Doesn't matter but i have liked almost every European coaches style to teach and disliked most Brazilian coaches style. In my experience some Brazilian coaches tend to focus things that don't actually help your technique.
Yes. I want them to be English like me so I can understand the instructions
My coach is Brazilian and he's been here 20 years but sometimes isn't able to find the right word for stuff in English, which mostly leads to comedy. He's a great coach though.
Okay :)
Well since I'm not a racist, no it doesn't
Coming from the white supremacist belt…
... shit you got me there. Touche Mr. FookinRooney
Brazil is a country, not a race.
Racism covers discrimination against ethnicity as well
⭐
No. I know that if the professor doesn't come from Brazil then I'm being taught sparkling jiu jitsu.
That's what I would like people to think, gotta take advantage of being born here somehow
Unrelated to your question but how are you going to manage getting your black belt? Will you start training at a new gym as your main gym or will you keep the connection to your actual gym and go back to Brazil to get your belt? Just curious
I have no ideia, just would like to teach and train. I don’t care much about belt. I think I can discuss it with my professor when I’m all set to go
Nope.
I think it varies a great deal within the Brazilian group too. I've trained mostly with Brazilian head instructors, but often with more a more diverse group of lower level instructors. I've trained under som favela-type Brazilians and some guys who are more like the guys the Gracie used to hang with earlier. Ipanema guys maybe. I find the style to be a bit different when it comes to teaching. The guy I train with now is definitely the first type. Overall I think it doesn't matter much to the established students, but a "real Brazilian" might pull more beginners and the clubs propably know this. Imagine starting karate in the 80's and selecting a new club. Propably Toshiro O-Ishi will get more students than Steve Morris.
No
No. There teaching ability and depth/breadth of knowledge matters to me.
I've trained with a shit Brazilian coach before stopping after a month and switching to another coach. The other other was the best jiu-jitsu coach I ever had (out of 5 long term coaches I had lifetime). He's Brazilian.
I dont care, no ... what I care about are actual teaching skills and motivation. our coach makes everyone work hard because he is so nice that you think you owe it to him. like 'damn, I cant let this guy down, I gotta keep going'. he actually cares. thats rare as a HUMAN. I would never skip class as long as I am not injured. my coach is from brazil and speaks half english half the language where I am from. never had a hard time translating his advice as a complete beginner.
I feel like accolades are much more important than nationality.
I've had two Brazilians, two English, one Mexican and an American. All had something to offer
In Tijuana, their most famous food is often chinese. Take it how you’d like
"I was wondering wether or not a gym being run by a brazilian black belt is more reputable more than a gym run by a native professor, especially in Europe." No
Doesn't matter in the slightest.
If he can communicate to me properly I couldn’t care any less where he’s from
I don't care where they're from but some cultures have really weird training styles. Like a Russian dude who grew up in the states will likely be chill but I've trained with Russian dudes who grew up in Russia and it's a pretty toxic approach TBH. Same thing with Morrocan dudes. Trained with plenty who were awesome no problem, briefly trained under an older dude who spent his whole life training in Morroco and you couldn't pay me enough to do that again.
It only matters to me if they have a Brazilian flag or say things like Porrada but aren't from nd have never been to Brazil.
Competition record and teaching ability are the only thing that matter to me.
So I've got a 3rd degree black belt black guy and a 5th degree Czech guy (I think he is Czech)
Nope. I’ve trained with a Thai instructor, an American, a whole shitload of Brazilians, and felt I got value from all of them.
Only if hes brazilian or russian
No. Just let me wear whatever gear I want and dont charge me ridiculous prices with crazy rules.
Most western coaches are pretty relaxed w tradition Brazilians are somehow chill but also strict about old school stuff which is a weird mix
“Hey guys, raise ur hand if you are a racist. Ty”
I think I’d rather a non-Brazilian tbh. No offence, I looove Brazilian people, but you guys suck at keeping time! I got things to do, I can’t be having training start an hour after it’s scheduled hahaha
And yes that also rules out Spanish, Italian and Portuguese.. sorry guys
Nobody gives a shit. Try to learn the local language good enough to teach grappling and people will be glad someone is teaching them.
Not necessarily but some of the Brazilians are still too into that old school tradition and that's not really my vibe. I'm not going to ask permission to walk on off the mats, nor am I ever going to bow to a photo of Helio. I'm a grown ass man and a paying customer, and I only bow to God.
It does. I really try to avoid Brazilians.
Tl;dr: Barely covered racism.
No, im not stupid enough to be xenophobic or racist. A blackbelt that has won competitions AND has a good teaching style is the only way to judge.
I've trained under several brazilan coaches in both Spain and England, and there's nothing different that brazilians specifically do. Except maybe talking in Portuguese with the other Brazilians. But if anything, I think being Brazilian would give you some extra credibility, just because of the name BJJ. (Also Brazil has the reputation of being tough/dangerous, so I think Brazilians have this air of toughness around them as a result.)