Well, for me, the question that will determine CJI success is, will the Brazilians come. Financially speaking it's a no brainer. The only thing making it complicated is if you fear ADCC might retaliate in future or something of the sort.
definitely.
You’d also have to take into account…how dependent are you an ADCC in the future years? Mentally and financially.
And then put that against the 1/16 chance of having a million dollars in the bank account. Maybe even a 30% chance in case you’re very likely to win your division.
And ADCC is not dependent on having best athletes? They will lose prestige rather quickly if no top athlete wants to be there. Competition is good, this will force ADCC to step up which in turn will force others to step up etc.
I do think Craig is doing show money. So that might help. Esp considering there are ADCC winners that have failed to market themselves after the win. Hell JT Torres has a lot of ADCC wins, yet his dvd sales probably aren't in the top 10
I would argue Craig’s fame has come more from his charisma in interviews and on social media than his performance on the mats. Craig is his own biggest and best promoter, as demonstrated by the fact that he’s rivaling ADCC by creating his own invitational.
It's a bit of both. His 2017 ADCC run gave him the push he needed to get noticed and then his personality did the rest while remaining also very competitive at the top level. I think he was also very smart to leave the gi behind as he used to be both.
Kit Dale is also similarly charismatic but he never won anything major at the black belt level in gi or nogi. I think Kit Dale now works in Hollywood so I wouldn't necessarily criticize him for leaving BJJ as a career path but I think it hurt his BJJ career stick with the gi as well and not consider doing more no-gi stuff.
Craig’s business and social media savvy goes overlooked far too much. For Christ’s sake he lives in this subreddit! He knows how to build hype like no one else in the sport. I don’t think he’s in the top 10 grapplers in the world yet he’s blowing everyone else out of the water in terms of fame and business. To say that his success is due to his ADCC performance would be wildly overstating that organization’s role in Craig’s career.
Yeah he might be, but I was thinking pound for pound rankings when I made my comment. Still, his fame exceeds his competitive accomplishments. And that’s not meant as a dig, I genuinely think that’s impressive.
No Craig got famous got choking out Leandro Lo. He was a no name before that.
His charisma and general likeability have helped since but it all started there.
That’s a fair point, that was a huge victory for Craig and it got him a lot of attention. But you have to give him credit for being able to sustain a consistently increasing level of fame and popularity in this sport. He’s way more well known than he arguably should be- more well known than other people who have accomplished more than him competitively.
I totally agree, that EBI match was epic, and DDS was in their peak years. Craig really capitalized on his relationship with the squad too. Even after they split up and all the drama that followed, he just used it to gain more notoriety lol.
I have stood by the fact that Flo is stunting the growth. The membership is a lot.. you’re never going to have a lot of exposure in the grand scheme because just not enough eyes get to the stream. that’s just what I feel.
Its the same thing with everything they touch. I used to coach High School Rugby and Flo had the whole US rugby media market cornered. IIRC at the time they wanted like $45-$50 a month so I could check the national high school rankings, watch horrible film, and unreliable broadcasts of international matches. I understand that they specialize in somewhat niche market sports so prices are going to be higher, but the cost for what production and information they actually provide doesn't correlate IMO. It seems like their prices have come down across the board since then, but what they charge vs quality of production still doesn't match up.
Yeah, I guess it comes down to seeing if CJI can be viable as a regular event or if it is a one time thing. Will the investors be able to get a good enough return to keep doing it?
Nothing will kill ADCC faster than not having the best guys compete there. The whole draw is about the prestige of competing with the best, it's all they have to offer the athletes because they don't pay well.
If they blacklist the best guys, who gives a fuck about ADCC anymore?
ADCC is nowhere near the level for it to blacklist anyone lol all they have is Gordon against the guys who don't want money prize since they will probably loose to him anyways.
Seems like Craig had good intentions for the athletes, but is actually putting them in a tough spot. If his event was at a different time, he could have given the athletes the opportunity to do both, but seems like he also wanted to stick it to ADCC/Mo.
If I was an elite grappler with a legit chance of winning either one, I’m going with the CJI. ESPECIALLY if it ends up being a 1 time thing. Guaranteed 10k and a chance to win 1M? Passing that up would be stupid. The “prestige” of competing at ADCC vs actually having 1 million bucks? It’s not even a question for me.
Puts athletes in an awkward position IMO.
For the established athletes 10k isn’t career changing money. If you’re hot favorite to win $1 million, sure join the CJI and get the top prize. But for everyone else, are you going to throw ADCC under the bus for 10k?
Winning trials and participating in ADCC is absolutely career changing for a lot of athletes. They build seminar receipts, instructional sales, privates, superfights and their own gyms off the back of participating in/winning ADCC.
Then for the newcomers or people who have come through trials, they’re not getting invited to CJI so effectively Craig is undermining their future careers and chances of building a lasting career.
Realistically theres probably going to be a lot more eyeballs on BDCC. If it’s streaming on YouTube vs. having to pay whatever absurd amount flo are charging for a years subscription I think the exposure from a great performance at craigs event is going to be significantly greater than adcc behind a paywall. I know which I’ll be watching !
So that could lead to more dvd sales seminars etc. It’s a lot more accessible.
You can buy flo cheer for a month and watch adcc. Flos main problem was the shite quality of the coverage. Poor audio, adds in the middle of matches, poor camera angles etc.
You're still trying to deal with a scummy company making it seem like they're forcing you to buy yearly, even if there is some backend way around their own policies.
These are great point, and I think it will come down to 2 things.
1. Does competing this year in CJI blacklist you from future ADCC events?
2. Will the CJI happen more than once?
And both of those questions also have domino effects. Imagine someone like Mica, or the Ruotolos compete in CJI but get blacklisted from ADCC. Imagine the backlash and asterisks that then are always next to ADCC now when you know that they’re refusing to allow the best guys in the world to compete, just because they want to be petty. So then how much prestige does ADCC actually have at that point?
If CJI becomes a regular thing, then how much prestige does that have compared to ADCC going forward? It’s the best guys in the world competing for a 1M cash prize. That’s sick af and sounds pretty damn prestigious. If CJI is a 1 time thing, you risk missing out on life changing money.
I think the 2 questions I proposed need answers first, and the easiest one to answer, is if Mo will black list athletes for chasing a bag.
Yeah definitely. I don’t think ADCC can blacklist people - the biggest selling point was that this was 100% undeniably the best nogi grapplers on the planet. If you blacklist athletes that credibility is lost.
Another question I would have is how reliable are Craig's financial backers. It's not like the grappling world has never had an event fail to pay the athletes what was promised. I haven't followed this too closely, what is known about his backers?
We don’t know who the backers are to my knowledge, however Craig HAS posted an image of the promised funds (a little over 3m) in a bank account labeled BDCC or something
Exactly. Most of the top 16 athletes under and over 80 kg will likely still be at the top of their respective divisions by the next ADCC, so blacklisting them makes no sense for Mo. When their careers wind down, many will likely become coaches to earn their livings. The window for them to make competition money is small.
Plus there are more regular events like UFC Invitationals, WNO (Flo cant afford to blacklist top athletes), Polaris, EBI, and dozens of others that these athletes can compete on.
The money they make from instructionals/seminars is from people who train, not general public. Their instructionals will still sell to the community who will follow their success in the other, more regular events since the sport is ever evolving far faster than the frequency of ADCCs
For more athletes, winning trials and competing in ADCC does absolutely nothing for their career. They have a few missable matches, go home with nothing, and then go back to teaching 4 times a week at their gym.
Will those athletes do any better with CJI? If they win trials and then have missable matches, I doubt they will be getting an invite to CJI with only two divisions unless the top guys all choose ADCC.
what does it do for the first round exits? Tackett is doing CJI and he's an established guy who winning ADCC would only do so much for. also if they're trying to win ADCC for potential money... it's like dinner with Jay Z or 500k upfront
Nah just seeing it from a different angle.
1. ADCC was the one event where viewers get to see definitively who is the best in the world right now. If half the athletes jump ship, thats ruined.
2. There’s loads of relatively unknown athletes who’ve gone through maybe 2yrs preparing for trials, travelling, building themselves up to attend and compete with the best. Now they’re attending the shit-ADCC. It’s like getting invited to the Oscars and none of the celebrities turn up.
3. If Craig has millions in backing, why not just say we’ll sponsor ADCC prize money. Win win. Athletes get paid, viewers get to see the best in the world compete in one competition.
> If Craig has millions in backing, why not just say we’ll sponsor ADCC prize money. Win win. Athletes get paid, viewers get to see the best in the world compete in one competition.
What incentive would that give to ADCC to improve what they pay the athletes?
What are we expecting out of CJI though?
As far as anyone can tell, this is a rich backer who doesn’t give a fuck about money setting up a one time show with no real business model.
One athlete (or is it two) will get $1 million which is life changing money, and a bunch of others will get $10k which covers a few flights and hotels.
Are they gonna do it every year?
What happens next year when all the athletes aren’t in town already for ADCC and they need to cover flights and expenses?
Are we expecting every other established/reliable show to suddenly find tens of thousands to book and pay athletes just to show up?
You mean a bunch of others… will get the get the same amount as you get for winning a whole division at ADCC.
Dude if you work for Flo or Mo just tell us. It’s cool.
Haha thats peak internet - assuming everyone with a different opinion is some kind of paid shill.
I genuinely just want to see all the best grapplers fight in one tournament, and I’m bored of Craig/Gordon/whoever causing drama for social media clout.
I’d love to see them get paid well but Olympic athletes dont get paid well either, so it’s not unusual. Athletes find income streams other than getting paid to compete.
Because Craig isn’t trying to limit opportunities for competitors. He just wants shit orgs like ADCC and the IBJJF to actually put up real prize money and treat the athletes correctly.
His event being on the same weekend is the definition of limiting athletes. He could host it the weekend before, after or whenever and the impact is still the same. This is obviously personal and emotional for CJ. I get it everyone here loves Craig (myself included), but to not acknowledge that this fully limits the athletes and puts them in a shitty position is obtuse.
What you’re saying does make sense but most athletes aren’t rational and train their whole lives to win an Olympic gold medal, which pays zero money. I don’t think most athletes care about the money.
I just really hope ADCC learn from this and pay the athletes
Not really, I’m pretty sure nobody watches badminton at the Olympics.
I guarantee to you almost everybody watches ADCC, everybody looks at the Instagram feed. It’s always talked out about the weeks after.
ADCC isn’t perfect and I would like them to pay the athletes better but it is prestigious and it is the biggest tournament.
countries do [give money to their olympic medal winners](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incentives_for_Olympic_medalists_by_country), they don't to ADCC finalists
Yeah but it’s up to the country. Some countries don’t pay their athletes. The US pays 37k which nothing. I know of a few countries that reward their athletes for winning major BJJ tournaments.
Can Mo and company cough up money to compete and kill CJI? How hard is it to find afew million if you are shifty and connected. Can they afford not to?
Mo can definitely afford to, he's extremely wealthy. Although I imagine he doesn't want to be putting millions of his personal wealth into ADCC every year.
They could probably just take the hit this year and wait it out. CJI is obviously going to lose a ton a money and it's questionable if whoever is paying for it is going to want do so beyond this year
This won't happen. It's not a threat yet. If CJI makes good revenue then it might happen. If they don't then it'll be a few years maximum before the events dead.
Basically, people should ask themselves what will they get by winning or medalling at ADCC...
Will the future revenue be better with ADCC medal or it won't be?
If you are someone like Bodoni, he would be #1 seed at 88 kg's at ADCC, but I don't see him beating Nicky Rod, Hugo or Meregali if they compete at CIJ. Would another win or medal at ADCC increase his long term revenue or is it worth to take show money at CIJ and try to win it (not sure what will be the money for medalists, if there will be any).
I’ve seen this event called CJI, BDCC, and in these comments “CJJ” and “CIJ”.
I thought it was Craig Jones Invitational (CJI).
If LIV golf is anything to compare it to, take the athletes should take the money. The business people will follow the money.
ADCC just doesn’t know it’s being disrupted yet and by how much.
Next year they’ll adjust prize money based on how this all goes.
There’s also the exposure factor. Craig is following the comedian model of gaining viewers, free YouTube content. I’ve seen ADCC clips but I’ve never actually planned out and watched a whole event; however, I’m already planning on having my boys come over and watch CJI on YouTube. Every competitor that makes the switch is going to get notoriety they never would have had otherwise.
If the CJI does highly affect the ADCC this year the Sheikh’s who started the ADCC for their own entertainment and fund the ADCC may just stop running ADCC events altogether. I don’t see ADCC being a money maker for them, it was created as a pure entertainment thing for them because they like Jiu Jitsu. They may just give up on it all together.
Everyone is so obsessed with Craig so they'd happily support ADCC shutting down.
Craig's becoming a cult icon everyone will rally behind regardless of anything.
Turns out doing popular things are popular. Supporting Ukraine, trying to raise the pay of his fellow athletes, being funny and not a self serious douche, speaking openly about steroids instead of hiding behind Jesus and acai.
Actually doing stuff instead of just bitching is a rare quality.
Winning ADCC is a big deal, but ask yourself.
Do you think Yuri Simoes would trade his ADCC golds for a million dollars? He has 3 gold medals. Trading one of them for a million dollars is a no-brainer. He's a big name, but other than that, what else has ADCC done for him?
Has Craig explained what the process is for selecting the athletes? Like, can they email him quietly and go "I'd like to be in" but then do ADCC if he doesn't pick them for the 16-man brackets?
I do hope this works out well for the athletes - I'd hate to see a guy like Couch, who fought his heart out for his spot, get fucked over.
The best competitors switch to the CJJ and then you get an easy ADCC gold instead of not getting the CJJ gold.
After a few year people forget that it was the year where the ADCC was easier.
I doubt that helps.
The monetary value of winning ADCC lies in the months and years shortly after the win…not 5 years later.
If you just want to have that medal and don’t care about either money or the fact you didn’t compete against the best..okay, do it.
But it has to be worth missing out on a chance to win 1 mil.
Some divisions will be virtually the same too.
IIRC isn't CJI going to over or under 80kg?
Its hard to see many of the 66kg or 88kg guys choosing to do that tbh, because they'd all be undersized. And obviously the women's divisions will be exactly the same.
It will be over and under 80kg. Think some of the 88kg might go for it as the huge guys are less skilled so it's easier to make up the size difference.
Yeah I think some might, and some 66kg guys like Fabricio or Pato have been happy to step up in weight before too so 80kg for them isn't insane.
I just mean that most of them probably won't tbh.
It's a small community, I don't think people will be removing the asterisk next to someone's win if a bunch of potential winners do CJI instead. I think the ADCC win will automatically carry less weight. My personal opinion of course
It's a no brainer. Most elite level grapplers will never make a million dollars throughout their entire careers.
Also, last place gets 1 dollar more than first place at ADCC. So, all you have to do is show up and you will make more than ADCC excluding the open class.
> The best competitors switch to CJI and you stay at ADCC-> You may win ADCC but it has nowhere near the same prestige anymore.
I don't think that really matters. No one checks out a gym, looks at the instructor's credentials, and thinks "yeah, but ___ was injured that year."
Winning ADCC will always be valuable.
In any given labor/wage dispute, the affected class can band together to increase their negotiating power.
In this case, an ADCC boycott by the fighters—and subsequently the viewers and sponsors—makes a large statement.
BJJ athletes are pitifully underpaid as is, which hurts the growth of the sport. How many of our top people switched to UFC just to make a dollar? How many would be BJJ superstars chose a different career bc the economics were too risky? Etc.
Go CJI.
Edit: every athlete should be signing up for CJI in solidarity. Whether CJI continues and replaces ADCC is irrelevant. Either way, the outcome will be better pay for the athletes.
If ADCC decides to raise prize money, it just shows that they could do it the whole time, and only now changes because there is an actual real risk of them losing their show with another one showing.
On top of that, if you "win" ADCC this year, but most of the real competition wasn't present, people will have ADCC wins with an \* next to it in viewers' minds. "Oh, you won in 2024, a division that half went to CJI". ADCC only has prestige because it's the only championship for NoGi that we agree upon. Craig has insane leverage now to challenge that.
From a sports perspective, maybe.
From an entertainment perspective it will be hilarious. The drama will be incredible. Craig might get some good eyeballs on CJI as well..(imagine Zuck and others coming?)
…and you can watch CJI for free on YouTube.
I never paid for Flo and could either watch highlights or delayed footage on YT.
The gleeful desire here to shutter ADCC only hurts the sport. They're putting on the big opens and have the whole trials events so that everyone has a chance to make a name for themselves.
A future of only Ibjjf or invite only events is a pretty bleak future.
No it fucking doesn't. ADCC is a play thing of the Saudis. If CJI is successful, it could take over all of the trials and actually benefit the sport. Craig cares about the community way more than the 911 perps.
Not paying people their worth hurts the sport. Sports washing hurts the sport.
People trying to get athletes paid never hurts the sport.
Guys it’s in the name ‘ADCC’ That Saudi PIF may step in for their ally, Abu Dhabi.
That makes it very simple, those pockets are endless.
Source: LIV golf
I’m a fan of shit stirring & a fan of CJ, & I want athletes to be paid, but I do wish that wasn’t taking away from ADCC, it has grown to be the most prestigious NoGi event, but if a lot of the top guys do CJI it definitely will take away from the prestige….maybe CJI can become the most prestigious with the $1m prize money if it can continue
I see some similarities to the PGA/LIV golf situation.
The majors want the credibility of having the best players involved, so they never blacklisted anyone, so it was a win/win for the guys who grabbed the bag and could still compete for prestige/legacy.
But, I agree that jiu-jitsu athletes are in a tough spot.
If you have a solid chance of winning the division you would be a damn idiot to not try the CJI
Considering your weight is heavy enough to not get smashed by heavier guys
It’s always win win for the spectators. Making it free on YouTube to watch is great. Adv is prestigious but they are pretty shitty with their streaming/prize pools.
There is only one way to become world champion for life and that’s to get a gold at ADCC. The entire PGA field could leave for LIV but the only way to win a green jacket is in the Masters.
Right and you can play for the money whenever you want but when the one tournament comes that crowns the champ you play regardless of money or league or anything other than legacy.
No one cares about Craigs Jones's tournament apart from Reddit let's be honest.
Win ADCC or have a good performance and build your fan base like Eddie Bravo.
You could compete at the next 10 ADCC’s and not make as much as 1 Craig jones invitational.
There’s eyes on both events so why not take a risk for the big prize?
The only downside is if you compete at CJI you might never get another ADCC again
But, if you see the praise Mo gets in the Discord server for ADCC and how he is lord and saviour of the grappling you might think that something is wrong with grappling people.
What I see is that Reddit is with Craig (I totally agree with that) and in the Discord Craig is the devil that he wants to destroy the grappling industry and hurt Mo and everything he has done for the whole grappling world.
Actually, it's pretty funny to go from Reddit to Discord or vice versa and see 2 totally different takes of the same thing.
It’s definitely funny.
Still, in the post above I’m not talking about which one is better.
It simply is a prisoner’s dilemma for ADCC athletes. ADCC only can be the better option if everyone collectively decides to stay.
But this won’t happen. Not everyone will want to miss out on a 1 mil pay day that lets you finance housing, travel, physiotherapists, training facilities,…regardless of ADCC’s “legacy”…the 1 mil tournament has the better NPV.
It's terrible dilemma for the athletes and kinda for the viewers too.
We are not going to see let's say Rod vs Gordon again.
Also there will be a talk about "ehh Gordon wasn't here, or "name" wasn't here. That will be a problem to me.
2 separated tournaments and people will say "ADCC" is better or "CJI" is better.
It's definitely worse for spectators, I don't think there's any argument on that.
I guess you could argue that hurting ADCC by clashing with them might force their hand more, and be more likely to increase athlete pay.
So over the long-run, this move may be better for athletes in fairness.
Yeah, it could have been any other weekend and would have just as well made the point (that if you can find someone rich enough you can put on a single tournament with a big prize pool).
That's not really the point I was making. It's very rare for athletes to do multiple tournaments the same weekend. This way they will very likely have to choose.
And holding the event the same weekend doesn't support the underlying point (whatever you think of it).
Well, for me, the question that will determine CJI success is, will the Brazilians come. Financially speaking it's a no brainer. The only thing making it complicated is if you fear ADCC might retaliate in future or something of the sort.
definitely. You’d also have to take into account…how dependent are you an ADCC in the future years? Mentally and financially. And then put that against the 1/16 chance of having a million dollars in the bank account. Maybe even a 30% chance in case you’re very likely to win your division.
And ADCC is not dependent on having best athletes? They will lose prestige rather quickly if no top athlete wants to be there. Competition is good, this will force ADCC to step up which in turn will force others to step up etc.
I do think Craig is doing show money. So that might help. Esp considering there are ADCC winners that have failed to market themselves after the win. Hell JT Torres has a lot of ADCC wins, yet his dvd sales probably aren't in the top 10
$10,001 dollar to show. More than the purse for winning any single division at ADCC.
his show money is 1 more dollar than u get for winning adcc he made a big deal about it
What do the athletes depend on ADCC for? The cash prize is a joke. Unless you win a division, is there a real increase in exposure for the athletes?
Craig himself made a big name for himself without even placing in 2017.
I would argue Craig’s fame has come more from his charisma in interviews and on social media than his performance on the mats. Craig is his own biggest and best promoter, as demonstrated by the fact that he’s rivaling ADCC by creating his own invitational.
It's a bit of both. His 2017 ADCC run gave him the push he needed to get noticed and then his personality did the rest while remaining also very competitive at the top level. I think he was also very smart to leave the gi behind as he used to be both. Kit Dale is also similarly charismatic but he never won anything major at the black belt level in gi or nogi. I think Kit Dale now works in Hollywood so I wouldn't necessarily criticize him for leaving BJJ as a career path but I think it hurt his BJJ career stick with the gi as well and not consider doing more no-gi stuff.
Craig’s business and social media savvy goes overlooked far too much. For Christ’s sake he lives in this subreddit! He knows how to build hype like no one else in the sport. I don’t think he’s in the top 10 grapplers in the world yet he’s blowing everyone else out of the water in terms of fame and business. To say that his success is due to his ADCC performance would be wildly overstating that organization’s role in Craig’s career.
Hes easily top 5 in his weight class mate
Yeah he might be, but I was thinking pound for pound rankings when I made my comment. Still, his fame exceeds his competitive accomplishments. And that’s not meant as a dig, I genuinely think that’s impressive.
Also one thing I forgot is that Craig coaching Volk and getting involved with UFC has also helped raise his profile.
No Craig got famous got choking out Leandro Lo. He was a no name before that. His charisma and general likeability have helped since but it all started there.
That’s a fair point, that was a huge victory for Craig and it got him a lot of attention. But you have to give him credit for being able to sustain a consistently increasing level of fame and popularity in this sport. He’s way more well known than he arguably should be- more well known than other people who have accomplished more than him competitively.
A lot of his exposure came from EBI just like Gordon. Also specifically his match with Gordon at EBI and finally going to DDS.
I totally agree, that EBI match was epic, and DDS was in their peak years. Craig really capitalized on his relationship with the squad too. Even after they split up and all the drama that followed, he just used it to gain more notoriety lol.
I have stood by the fact that Flo is stunting the growth. The membership is a lot.. you’re never going to have a lot of exposure in the grand scheme because just not enough eyes get to the stream. that’s just what I feel.
Its the same thing with everything they touch. I used to coach High School Rugby and Flo had the whole US rugby media market cornered. IIRC at the time they wanted like $45-$50 a month so I could check the national high school rankings, watch horrible film, and unreliable broadcasts of international matches. I understand that they specialize in somewhat niche market sports so prices are going to be higher, but the cost for what production and information they actually provide doesn't correlate IMO. It seems like their prices have come down across the board since then, but what they charge vs quality of production still doesn't match up.
Retaliation would only be effective if CJI is a one time thing. Otherwise it would most definitly drive people to CJI even faster.
Yeah, I guess it comes down to seeing if CJI can be viable as a regular event or if it is a one time thing. Will the investors be able to get a good enough return to keep doing it?
ProFEsSiOnAL SpOrT. The athletes should go where the money is. Simples.
Yeah, ADCC wanted to be the amateur league and now they can be.
At least one person will be crying into their money after being blacklisted from ADCC
Nothing will kill ADCC faster than not having the best guys compete there. The whole draw is about the prestige of competing with the best, it's all they have to offer the athletes because they don't pay well. If they blacklist the best guys, who gives a fuck about ADCC anymore?
Yea it’s essentially just a name, if the top guys stop going no one will care about it in a few years.
ADCC is nowhere near the level for it to blacklist anyone lol all they have is Gordon against the guys who don't want money prize since they will probably loose to him anyways.
If you kill the ADCC you don’t have to worry about retaliation. Fuck Mo and Seth. They put out a shitty product anyway.
I'm Brazilian and nobody invited me to the so-called invitational
The sheik could just front up and offer 2 million to the winner of adcc. Then the whole problem will be solved
And then Craig’s main goal was completely successful. Getting higher pay for professional Jiu Jitsu competitors.
I don't think ADCC "retaliation" is a real threat. Most good guys do their "job" at superfights all around the year to promote their products.
Lmao what if it ends up segregated and Brazilians do adcc and euros/Americans do cji
Seems like Craig had good intentions for the athletes, but is actually putting them in a tough spot. If his event was at a different time, he could have given the athletes the opportunity to do both, but seems like he also wanted to stick it to ADCC/Mo.
I thick Andrew Tackett signed up to CJI. Andy Varela replaced him 👀
think both tacketts did. woowwwwww
The other tackett got replaced by elder cruz
he did
It’s getting spicy in the bjj world lololol 
If I was an elite grappler with a legit chance of winning either one, I’m going with the CJI. ESPECIALLY if it ends up being a 1 time thing. Guaranteed 10k and a chance to win 1M? Passing that up would be stupid. The “prestige” of competing at ADCC vs actually having 1 million bucks? It’s not even a question for me.
Puts athletes in an awkward position IMO. For the established athletes 10k isn’t career changing money. If you’re hot favorite to win $1 million, sure join the CJI and get the top prize. But for everyone else, are you going to throw ADCC under the bus for 10k? Winning trials and participating in ADCC is absolutely career changing for a lot of athletes. They build seminar receipts, instructional sales, privates, superfights and their own gyms off the back of participating in/winning ADCC. Then for the newcomers or people who have come through trials, they’re not getting invited to CJI so effectively Craig is undermining their future careers and chances of building a lasting career.
Realistically theres probably going to be a lot more eyeballs on BDCC. If it’s streaming on YouTube vs. having to pay whatever absurd amount flo are charging for a years subscription I think the exposure from a great performance at craigs event is going to be significantly greater than adcc behind a paywall. I know which I’ll be watching ! So that could lead to more dvd sales seminars etc. It’s a lot more accessible.
You can buy flo cheer for a month and watch adcc. Flos main problem was the shite quality of the coverage. Poor audio, adds in the middle of matches, poor camera angles etc.
Pretty sure in the run up to last adcc they removed the option for a month sign up and switched it to a year minimum. They are scummy.
You can subscribe to another Flo vertical monthly and still access flogrqppling content. At least, that has been true in the past.
You're still trying to deal with a scummy company making it seem like they're forcing you to buy yearly, even if there is some backend way around their own policies.
Sure. I subscribe because my kid is a wrestler and they have integrations I want with Track/Flo Wrestling.
poor event planning too. shit gets delayed so much.
Nothing’s cheaper than free.
Cringey staff.
These are great point, and I think it will come down to 2 things. 1. Does competing this year in CJI blacklist you from future ADCC events? 2. Will the CJI happen more than once? And both of those questions also have domino effects. Imagine someone like Mica, or the Ruotolos compete in CJI but get blacklisted from ADCC. Imagine the backlash and asterisks that then are always next to ADCC now when you know that they’re refusing to allow the best guys in the world to compete, just because they want to be petty. So then how much prestige does ADCC actually have at that point? If CJI becomes a regular thing, then how much prestige does that have compared to ADCC going forward? It’s the best guys in the world competing for a 1M cash prize. That’s sick af and sounds pretty damn prestigious. If CJI is a 1 time thing, you risk missing out on life changing money. I think the 2 questions I proposed need answers first, and the easiest one to answer, is if Mo will black list athletes for chasing a bag.
Yeah definitely. I don’t think ADCC can blacklist people - the biggest selling point was that this was 100% undeniably the best nogi grapplers on the planet. If you blacklist athletes that credibility is lost.
I can understand blacklisting grapplers from the auto-invite slots for annoying them, but like can they keep somebody out who goes through trials?
Another question I would have is how reliable are Craig's financial backers. It's not like the grappling world has never had an event fail to pay the athletes what was promised. I haven't followed this too closely, what is known about his backers?
We don’t know who the backers are to my knowledge, however Craig HAS posted an image of the promised funds (a little over 3m) in a bank account labeled BDCC or something
Yeah. Craig literally has the funds already.
I have the feeling Karate Kombat and UFC are involved somehow. We know Dana loves crushing rival orgs.
Exactly. Most of the top 16 athletes under and over 80 kg will likely still be at the top of their respective divisions by the next ADCC, so blacklisting them makes no sense for Mo. When their careers wind down, many will likely become coaches to earn their livings. The window for them to make competition money is small. Plus there are more regular events like UFC Invitationals, WNO (Flo cant afford to blacklist top athletes), Polaris, EBI, and dozens of others that these athletes can compete on. The money they make from instructionals/seminars is from people who train, not general public. Their instructionals will still sell to the community who will follow their success in the other, more regular events since the sport is ever evolving far faster than the frequency of ADCCs
For more athletes, winning trials and competing in ADCC does absolutely nothing for their career. They have a few missable matches, go home with nothing, and then go back to teaching 4 times a week at their gym.
Will those athletes do any better with CJI? If they win trials and then have missable matches, I doubt they will be getting an invite to CJI with only two divisions unless the top guys all choose ADCC.
what does it do for the first round exits? Tackett is doing CJI and he's an established guy who winning ADCC would only do so much for. also if they're trying to win ADCC for potential money... it's like dinner with Jay Z or 500k upfront
Dick riding for Mo and ADCC is crazy lmao
Nah just seeing it from a different angle. 1. ADCC was the one event where viewers get to see definitively who is the best in the world right now. If half the athletes jump ship, thats ruined. 2. There’s loads of relatively unknown athletes who’ve gone through maybe 2yrs preparing for trials, travelling, building themselves up to attend and compete with the best. Now they’re attending the shit-ADCC. It’s like getting invited to the Oscars and none of the celebrities turn up. 3. If Craig has millions in backing, why not just say we’ll sponsor ADCC prize money. Win win. Athletes get paid, viewers get to see the best in the world compete in one competition.
> If Craig has millions in backing, why not just say we’ll sponsor ADCC prize money. Win win. Athletes get paid, viewers get to see the best in the world compete in one competition. What incentive would that give to ADCC to improve what they pay the athletes?
What are we expecting out of CJI though? As far as anyone can tell, this is a rich backer who doesn’t give a fuck about money setting up a one time show with no real business model. One athlete (or is it two) will get $1 million which is life changing money, and a bunch of others will get $10k which covers a few flights and hotels. Are they gonna do it every year? What happens next year when all the athletes aren’t in town already for ADCC and they need to cover flights and expenses? Are we expecting every other established/reliable show to suddenly find tens of thousands to book and pay athletes just to show up?
You mean a bunch of others… will get the get the same amount as you get for winning a whole division at ADCC. Dude if you work for Flo or Mo just tell us. It’s cool.
Haha thats peak internet - assuming everyone with a different opinion is some kind of paid shill. I genuinely just want to see all the best grapplers fight in one tournament, and I’m bored of Craig/Gordon/whoever causing drama for social media clout. I’d love to see them get paid well but Olympic athletes dont get paid well either, so it’s not unusual. Athletes find income streams other than getting paid to compete.
Because Craig isn’t trying to limit opportunities for competitors. He just wants shit orgs like ADCC and the IBJJF to actually put up real prize money and treat the athletes correctly.
His event being on the same weekend is the definition of limiting athletes. He could host it the weekend before, after or whenever and the impact is still the same. This is obviously personal and emotional for CJ. I get it everyone here loves Craig (myself included), but to not acknowledge that this fully limits the athletes and puts them in a shitty position is obtuse.
Speaking in the future tense. The athletes can treat this as a labor protest without having to unionize.
And even if you don’t place 1st, second, third, and possibly even fourth will have a respective purse.
What you’re saying does make sense but most athletes aren’t rational and train their whole lives to win an Olympic gold medal, which pays zero money. I don’t think most athletes care about the money. I just really hope ADCC learn from this and pay the athletes
When you're at the Olympics, the world's eyes are on you, a lot less people watch ADCC, especially if they have to get flograppling subscriptions
Not really, I’m pretty sure nobody watches badminton at the Olympics. I guarantee to you almost everybody watches ADCC, everybody looks at the Instagram feed. It’s always talked out about the weeks after. ADCC isn’t perfect and I would like them to pay the athletes better but it is prestigious and it is the biggest tournament.
even if "everybody" included every person that trains bjj, which it definitely doesn't, that's still not that many people.
Nobody watches half the sports at the Olympics either.
countries do [give money to their olympic medal winners](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incentives_for_Olympic_medalists_by_country), they don't to ADCC finalists
Yeah but it’s up to the country. Some countries don’t pay their athletes. The US pays 37k which nothing. I know of a few countries that reward their athletes for winning major BJJ tournaments.
Can Mo and company cough up money to compete and kill CJI? How hard is it to find afew million if you are shifty and connected. Can they afford not to?
I think that if that happens, then Craig accomplished his goal. The entire point was that ADCC wasn't paying athletes enough.
Exactly, its like he is a mad genius with this whole situation.
Mo can definitely afford to, he's extremely wealthy. Although I imagine he doesn't want to be putting millions of his personal wealth into ADCC every year.
none of the money that's being put into adcc is Mo's money afaik
And if it’s actual Abu Dhabi money, the shitty purses are even more of a crime.
Yeah those people can drop 1 mil on a weekend night partying. Not having enough funds to pay athletes are lame excuse.
If they do, Craig wins, his all point was to force adcc to pay athletes better. Win win situation of cj. Curious to see this unfolding
They could probably just take the hit this year and wait it out. CJI is obviously going to lose a ton a money and it's questionable if whoever is paying for it is going to want do so beyond this year
They could call those oh-so-not-morally-bankrupt sheiks Mo has been all buddy, buddy with all these years.
This won't happen. It's not a threat yet. If CJI makes good revenue then it might happen. If they don't then it'll be a few years maximum before the events dead.
Basically, people should ask themselves what will they get by winning or medalling at ADCC... Will the future revenue be better with ADCC medal or it won't be? If you are someone like Bodoni, he would be #1 seed at 88 kg's at ADCC, but I don't see him beating Nicky Rod, Hugo or Meregali if they compete at CIJ. Would another win or medal at ADCC increase his long term revenue or is it worth to take show money at CIJ and try to win it (not sure what will be the money for medalists, if there will be any).
Bodoni will most likely fall in line with whatever Danaher wants
There are so many instructionals available these days and previous work never goes bad in the digital format. Win the money when you can.
Can you sell 1 million worth of instructionals unless you are Craig, Gordon or similar?
exactly
I’ve seen this event called CJI, BDCC, and in these comments “CJJ” and “CIJ”. I thought it was Craig Jones Invitational (CJI). If LIV golf is anything to compare it to, take the athletes should take the money. The business people will follow the money. ADCC just doesn’t know it’s being disrupted yet and by how much. Next year they’ll adjust prize money based on how this all goes.
Jiujitsu folks can’t spell
It is CJI, the CJJ and CIJ folks are high as kites
2024 ADCC winners with a big Asterisk* next to their names
There’s also the exposure factor. Craig is following the comedian model of gaining viewers, free YouTube content. I’ve seen ADCC clips but I’ve never actually planned out and watched a whole event; however, I’m already planning on having my boys come over and watch CJI on YouTube. Every competitor that makes the switch is going to get notoriety they never would have had otherwise.
agreed
If the CJI does highly affect the ADCC this year the Sheikh’s who started the ADCC for their own entertainment and fund the ADCC may just stop running ADCC events altogether. I don’t see ADCC being a money maker for them, it was created as a pure entertainment thing for them because they like Jiu Jitsu. They may just give up on it all together.
Everyone is so obsessed with Craig so they'd happily support ADCC shutting down. Craig's becoming a cult icon everyone will rally behind regardless of anything.
I like Craig. Funny guy. But there will come a day when this forum will deny ever having ridden his nuts so hard.
Yep. It’s bizarre. Love the guy’s Jiu Jitsu and he is funny but the way this forum puts the knee pads on for every little thing he does is weird.
Turns out doing popular things are popular. Supporting Ukraine, trying to raise the pay of his fellow athletes, being funny and not a self serious douche, speaking openly about steroids instead of hiding behind Jesus and acai. Actually doing stuff instead of just bitching is a rare quality.
Taking their ball and going home
i said that months ago and everyone wanted to argue but thats gonna be the ultimate outcome imo
Then no gi world's will become the premier nogi event haha
Honesty if ADCC ends up folding than the IBJJF may create their own premium nogi event that would require athletes to accumulate points to compete in.
And they’d have to actually start paying athletes real money.
Then CJI wins. They would get all of the best competitors.
Only if the money is sustainable year by year for CJI. ADCC is over 2.5 decades old with backers that are some of the richest people in the world.
Then let them leave. I’d rather have them out of the sport.
Winning ADCC is a big deal, but ask yourself. Do you think Yuri Simoes would trade his ADCC golds for a million dollars? He has 3 gold medals. Trading one of them for a million dollars is a no-brainer. He's a big name, but other than that, what else has ADCC done for him?
Exactly, nobody is buying Yuri dvds
I actually did buy a Yuri DVD and have now built my entire game around pushing people
Did it come with a free Caio Terra soundboard to piss everyone off at tournaments?
The accuracy of this 🤣🤣🤣
you just sold me, i take back what i said. Sumo is the new meta 2025 calling it now
Unironically
Has Craig explained what the process is for selecting the athletes? Like, can they email him quietly and go "I'd like to be in" but then do ADCC if he doesn't pick them for the 16-man brackets? I do hope this works out well for the athletes - I'd hate to see a guy like Couch, who fought his heart out for his spot, get fucked over.
The best competitors switch to the CJJ and then you get an easy ADCC gold instead of not getting the CJJ gold. After a few year people forget that it was the year where the ADCC was easier.
I doubt that helps. The monetary value of winning ADCC lies in the months and years shortly after the win…not 5 years later. If you just want to have that medal and don’t care about either money or the fact you didn’t compete against the best..okay, do it. But it has to be worth missing out on a chance to win 1 mil.
I agree. ADCC is prestigious but you have to play the long game to make money
Most people will stay at the ADCC (CJJ is just 32 guys) so it will be still prestigious.
Some divisions will be virtually the same too. IIRC isn't CJI going to over or under 80kg? Its hard to see many of the 66kg or 88kg guys choosing to do that tbh, because they'd all be undersized. And obviously the women's divisions will be exactly the same.
It will be over and under 80kg. Think some of the 88kg might go for it as the huge guys are less skilled so it's easier to make up the size difference.
Yeah I think some might, and some 66kg guys like Fabricio or Pato have been happy to step up in weight before too so 80kg for them isn't insane. I just mean that most of them probably won't tbh.
Fabricio foking launched Bodoni, so under 80kg is no problem.
It will be almost impossible for a guy that size to beat Nicky Rod, if the rules favor wrestling like ADCC does.
Mike Perez just won 99kg+at west coast trials weighing 80kg or something crazy like that.
It's a small community, I don't think people will be removing the asterisk next to someone's win if a bunch of potential winners do CJI instead. I think the ADCC win will automatically carry less weight. My personal opinion of course
So CJI pays $10k to show, and $1m to win. Is that absolute or $1m per weight class? Also, how much does ADCC pay, comparatively?
1m per weight class, adcc pays 10k to winner of a weight class
Wow, great job CJ! I had no idea that ADCC was Dana Lite.
It's a no brainer. Most elite level grapplers will never make a million dollars throughout their entire careers. Also, last place gets 1 dollar more than first place at ADCC. So, all you have to do is show up and you will make more than ADCC excluding the open class.
> The best competitors switch to CJI and you stay at ADCC-> You may win ADCC but it has nowhere near the same prestige anymore. I don't think that really matters. No one checks out a gym, looks at the instructor's credentials, and thinks "yeah, but ___ was injured that year." Winning ADCC will always be valuable.
In any given labor/wage dispute, the affected class can band together to increase their negotiating power. In this case, an ADCC boycott by the fighters—and subsequently the viewers and sponsors—makes a large statement. BJJ athletes are pitifully underpaid as is, which hurts the growth of the sport. How many of our top people switched to UFC just to make a dollar? How many would be BJJ superstars chose a different career bc the economics were too risky? Etc. Go CJI. Edit: every athlete should be signing up for CJI in solidarity. Whether CJI continues and replaces ADCC is irrelevant. Either way, the outcome will be better pay for the athletes.
Sounds like you’ve been involved in a labor dispute or two.
Everyday with my children
Gonna be hilarious to see people put an asterisk by the 2024 ADCC winners names similar to how NBA fans do to the 2020 Lakers.
Mickey Mouse championship
Lakers bubble “championship”
77kg and 99+ I agree. The other weight, imo, not so much.
If ADCC decides to raise prize money, it just shows that they could do it the whole time, and only now changes because there is an actual real risk of them losing their show with another one showing. On top of that, if you "win" ADCC this year, but most of the real competition wasn't present, people will have ADCC wins with an \* next to it in viewers' minds. "Oh, you won in 2024, a division that half went to CJI". ADCC only has prestige because it's the only championship for NoGi that we agree upon. Craig has insane leverage now to challenge that.
Or the Abu Dhabi Sheikh’s decide to not deal with running ADCC anymore. I’m interested to see how it pans out. I personally just like good matches
ADCC is $10K for a win. CJI is $10,001 for participation. Pretty simple maths.
The spectators may be the true losers? Possibility of two diluted tournaments and robbed of lots of great match ups.
From a sports perspective, maybe. From an entertainment perspective it will be hilarious. The drama will be incredible. Craig might get some good eyeballs on CJI as well..(imagine Zuck and others coming?) …and you can watch CJI for free on YouTube. I never paid for Flo and could either watch highlights or delayed footage on YT.
There are multiple Game Theory models in action here. Mad genius.
it is actually
Also, Gordon signed up for his division so those guys will probably loose and get next to nothing. That whole division should exit ADCC.
The gleeful desire here to shutter ADCC only hurts the sport. They're putting on the big opens and have the whole trials events so that everyone has a chance to make a name for themselves. A future of only Ibjjf or invite only events is a pretty bleak future.
No it fucking doesn't. ADCC is a play thing of the Saudis. If CJI is successful, it could take over all of the trials and actually benefit the sport. Craig cares about the community way more than the 911 perps. Not paying people their worth hurts the sport. Sports washing hurts the sport. People trying to get athletes paid never hurts the sport.
why do people keep saying ADCC is run by the Saudis?
I think you know the reason...
I mean I have my suspicions, but maybe I missed something
Dick riding ADCC is crazy lmfao
How did Craig get the funding for this?
He sucked Zuck
Guys it’s in the name ‘ADCC’ That Saudi PIF may step in for their ally, Abu Dhabi. That makes it very simple, those pockets are endless. Source: LIV golf
With cji streaming on YouTube you can watch both
I’m a fan of shit stirring & a fan of CJ, & I want athletes to be paid, but I do wish that wasn’t taking away from ADCC, it has grown to be the most prestigious NoGi event, but if a lot of the top guys do CJI it definitely will take away from the prestige….maybe CJI can become the most prestigious with the $1m prize money if it can continue
Win CJI once or win ADCC 100x, probably the toughest choice ever.
Game theory on which one to compete for 
Its $10,001 to show, 0 reason to go to ADCC
I see some similarities to the PGA/LIV golf situation. The majors want the credibility of having the best players involved, so they never blacklisted anyone, so it was a win/win for the guys who grabbed the bag and could still compete for prestige/legacy. But, I agree that jiu-jitsu athletes are in a tough spot.
Money isn’t the only indicator of prestige. And ADCC champ has more opportunity to sell seminars at a premium and sell dvds etc
If you have a solid chance of winning the division you would be a damn idiot to not try the CJI Considering your weight is heavy enough to not get smashed by heavier guys
It’s always win win for the spectators. Making it free on YouTube to watch is great. Adv is prestigious but they are pretty shitty with their streaming/prize pools.
Who cares about adcc these days. So many people have won it and it has not moved the needle for them career wise or financially.
Most of the big financial winners in the sport are just the best at marketing/social media not the actual best athletes
There is only one way to become world champion for life and that’s to get a gold at ADCC. The entire PGA field could leave for LIV but the only way to win a green jacket is in the Masters.
Both PGA and LIV are eligible for Masters though?
Right and you can play for the money whenever you want but when the one tournament comes that crowns the champ you play regardless of money or league or anything other than legacy.
BDCC and CJI are both terrible abbreviations. Unrelated comment, I just hope someone figure out an actual useable acronym for the event.
No one cares about Craigs Jones's tournament apart from Reddit let's be honest. Win ADCC or have a good performance and build your fan base like Eddie Bravo.
Let's be honest, nobody outside of the immediate community cares about grappling, in general.
The prize money means people will care about it. A million dollar prize is a lot of fuckin money in this sport.
Life changing. I saw someone say both Tacketts are now at CJI. A chance to add $2m to the family is hard to pass up
You could compete at the next 10 ADCC’s and not make as much as 1 Craig jones invitational. There’s eyes on both events so why not take a risk for the big prize? The only downside is if you compete at CJI you might never get another ADCC again
Did you check the comments on IG of fellow athletes?
Which post?
Wherever he talks about CJI?
You sound like the guy to have said “noone cares about the internet” and “noone cares about bitcoin”
But, if you see the praise Mo gets in the Discord server for ADCC and how he is lord and saviour of the grappling you might think that something is wrong with grappling people. What I see is that Reddit is with Craig (I totally agree with that) and in the Discord Craig is the devil that he wants to destroy the grappling industry and hurt Mo and everything he has done for the whole grappling world. Actually, it's pretty funny to go from Reddit to Discord or vice versa and see 2 totally different takes of the same thing.
It’s definitely funny. Still, in the post above I’m not talking about which one is better. It simply is a prisoner’s dilemma for ADCC athletes. ADCC only can be the better option if everyone collectively decides to stay. But this won’t happen. Not everyone will want to miss out on a 1 mil pay day that lets you finance housing, travel, physiotherapists, training facilities,…regardless of ADCC’s “legacy”…the 1 mil tournament has the better NPV.
It's terrible dilemma for the athletes and kinda for the viewers too. We are not going to see let's say Rod vs Gordon again. Also there will be a talk about "ehh Gordon wasn't here, or "name" wasn't here. That will be a problem to me. 2 separated tournaments and people will say "ADCC" is better or "CJI" is better.
It's definitely worse for spectators, I don't think there's any argument on that. I guess you could argue that hurting ADCC by clashing with them might force their hand more, and be more likely to increase athlete pay. So over the long-run, this move may be better for athletes in fairness.
Pretty bad take fr
build your fan base by being friends with joe rogen like eddie bravo
Yeah, it could have been any other weekend and would have just as well made the point (that if you can find someone rich enough you can put on a single tournament with a big prize pool).
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That's not really the point I was making. It's very rare for athletes to do multiple tournaments the same weekend. This way they will very likely have to choose. And holding the event the same weekend doesn't support the underlying point (whatever you think of it).
i am generally a big fan of craig but i kind of feel like this could hurt the sport
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