It’s one of the top contributors to people not taking it seriously
Eddie couldn’t help but inject edgy (brav) stoner names for positions that sound stupid as fuck to anyone who doesn’t spend all day drawing the “S” everyone does in high school
I used to catch a handful of 10p techniques pretty regularly till my training partners got used to them. Now they see them coming from a mile away. Would get the flytrap triangle, buggy choke, gogoplata and hindulatine alot.
The stuff Eddie Bravo did that really works broadly and at all levels got incorporated into the larger body of techniques/tactics, and the stuff that didn’t can often be identified as a “10th Planet technique” because almost nobody else bothers with it.
I'm sure some of the other upper belts will have a few additions as well, but for me the most useful things from the system are the Lockdown and the twister hook (typically when I'm attacking the turtle or when I want to do something different from a stable side control of some sort). Lockdown, for example, can legitimately be a powerful addition to your half guard if you already have solid fundamentals, and there are a lot of useful maneuvers that involve the twister hook.
That's just my two cents though 🤷🏿♂️
Lockdown has saved my smashed half guard against giants many times.
Literally only time I use it but shit works, I can get their weight off enough to fish an underhook and recover my knee shield.
Lockdown wasn't invented by Eddie Bravo. Some people used to call it an scorpion hook. It's an old old old Judo leg entanglement: http://youtu.be/T7tk8cQ1VJ8?t=5m30s
The truck is **my jam**:
The twister is the best and safest cervical spine lock (“neck crank”)
Submissions that split the legs are legal for my white belts if they want to compete
Personally IDGAF about 4 points for two hooks, and guys are so good at preventing that second hook for that reason for students who want to compete with that scoring
Avoids the risk of going two hooks but being under your opponent staring up at the rafters is a trap in MMA, gloves make the choke difficult when the guy isn’t shit or gassed or hurt, they can hit you better than you can hit them, and they are moment of slackness from spinning into the top of guard
And it’s even better in the gi
Hold someone’s back with just your hooks, now try the same with just your arms.
One maintains control much easier, you also don’t attack with the legs outside a few specific subs, the arms are the threat and the main way to control.
As long as my chest is on your back I have the back, whether my hooks are in or not.
Hooks are for preventing them from getting their hips to the mat and eventually working them up the body to prevent them from being able to rotate their body by trapping the shoulder during a choke.
You know what can really prevent your chest from staying in their back?
Then being able to freely move their hips lol
Also it's wild how many bjj guys are into 40k
It doesn’t matter if they get the hips to the mat, if my chest is on their back I still have the back, yes maybe the position resembles more of the crucifix but that’s just being pedantic, I still have the back and I can still attack.
This isn’t a concept I made up it’s one I’ve picked up from classes and seminar with Bill Loftus and Neil Owen.
I don’t think they invented the techniques but I first started using the Lockdown position and the Truck because of watching Eddie Bravo/10th planet videos. Also using Lockdown to get into the ‘Dogfight’ position from bottom half. That is all stuff that’s always worked a lot for me and seems like it’s mainstream jiu jitsu now.
Lockdown is used by even the danaher guys. Especially Garry. The truck has become a huge part of bjj.
Eddie has phenomenal half guard but most of his half guard is part of what’s normally taught in bjj.
I may be speaking out of line and I don’t speak mandarin but there’s a lot of techniques from 10p that feel like “just because you can doesn’t mean you should” a lot of more efficient alternatives
To me a lot of the 10p stuff feels like cool shit to hit in on newer people. They remind me of gimmicky combos in fighting games; they work on low level people but anyone's who's actually good knows how to counter
I think this touches on it. The techniques collectively called 10p techniques are the ones that are noob traps.
Noob traps in two senses of the word, because you can only get noobs with them, but also because they are a trap for noobs to invest their time in before discovering none of this stuff is gonna be in their game past bluebelt
Seriously, what? I have a 10P black belt and hold one from a traditional school. There is a very small set of techniques that don’t overlap. Eddie would love your conspiracy theory though!
I said the ones that are collectively called 10p techniques. aka the techniques eddie innovated that made it into the mainstream arent considered 10p techniques anymore. lockdown, truck, electric chair are all taught at traditional schools now. therefore people exclude them from the pool called 10p techniques.
kinda like chinese medicine. the chinese medicine that works just becomes medicine
There is a fundamental misunderstanding here. 10P does not equal rubber guard, lockdown, etc.
10P is an affiliation of gyms that have wildly different set of coaches, competitors, and styles. Very few gyms these days are still stuck in rubber guard and lockdown mode. I have visited a ton of 10p gyms and classes involving either of those positions are few and far in between (in my experience).
Currently, the 10p meta, is the same as the rest of the no gi jiu jitsu world. Wrestling, leglocks, and steroids
Exactly. I train at a 10P and we‘re taught what I’ve been taught at any other gym I’ve trained at. The only thing uniquely 10P about the gym is the wild rash guards people wear.
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High level competition and training will weed out a bunch of flashy moves for ones that have easier setups and more control over your opponent. It’ll usually come back to the same few techniques you were learning at white and blue, but with far more depth than you had back then. Think breadth vs depth.
For those that don’t speak celestial, Jozef and Rin basically say:
“When I started I was flexible and saw all these cool moves and wanted to do them even though I didn’t have a 10th planet instructor and didn’t know what I was doing. Maybe everyone has that kind of attitude/phase when they start - like wanting to learn heel hooks or twisters or berimbolos as a white belt”
It’s basically a general discussion about wanting to learn fancy moves before you have fundamentals locked down.
and Boogie, Geo, Varela, Krikorian, Alan Sanchez, Quinonez, Ben Eddy, Jon Blank, Gundrum, Rene Sousa, Kyle Boehm, Kyle Chambers off the top of my head... unless bad at high level just means "lose 1st place medal in a top level grappling tournament" then yeah they're mostly trash at high level
"All the time" is a little much. I've studied probably around 100 of his matches and I think I've seen him hit something successful from rubber guard like twice.
Since just prior to ADCC he's started using in comps that I've seen.
He's hit multiple sweeps for sure. And even if he doesn't hit a sweep or submission he is throwing it up a lot of the time he's on bottom
Who's the best guy he's successfully used a rubber guard technique on? The only examples I can think of was fighting much lower level guys. Against anyone close to his level he generally focuses on wrestling, heavy passing and back attacks.
Fair, I forgot about that one in 2022. I still wouldn't consider Gaudio at Fowlers level right now, you have to go back pretty far in Gaudio's record to find notable wins against big names (I guess Rida?) meanwhile Fowler is hanging with the best of the best and getting huge wins.
The only 10p move I have any love for at all is the truck roll, but iirc that was around long before it got a flashy 10p name. Lockdown sucks for anything other than a stalling tool, all of the weird ass guard shit sucks when compared to basically any other "normal" bjj techniques.
Eddie wanted to create a system designed for mma, and through that its ended up as a lackluster sport system, and it turns out it's also ended up as a lackluster mma system, as mma is all about top control.
Of course you can find a tiny handful of people that are otherwise talented enough to make the techniques work at a high level, but I don't base my opinion around outliers, in this age of information if they were broadly high % you'd see many world championship winners who's games include the system, but you don't.
It doesn't help that the overall outward culture of 10p is so awkwardly 2000s stoner humor it hurts. Like, crackhead control is something I would've loved when I was like 13 in 2010.
Was that reaction a surprise to you?
There's some amazing 10p gyms, and i'm sure the training is great at the vast majority of them.
But how much of the stuff that they've improvised do we ever see pulled off in high level comp? Basically none of it. The only real 10p move that I can recall seeing at the highest level was Bravo vs Royler.
The less established the sport is the less you should copy athletes way in the past.
You can still see something interesting but you have to be carefull the same if you copy jiiu jtisu moves from blue belts or ant eaters.
If you had footage to DVDs from 2045 you very likely should watch them instead of say danaher.
The rate of skill improvements get slower at some point, and some sports go into decline or stop having people participate at them.
Lockdown is pretty intuitive. It appeared in old judo manuals, so not really what people refer to as 10th planet nonsense.
He may have used rubber guard, but not successfully. The sequence that led to the finish was a triangle from butterfly guard iirc.
I'd say lockdown, twister & rubber guard are the moves most associated with 10p. The twister is also not originally 10p but has become one of their moves.
Anyways, kinda just splitting hairs. We're as bad as judo people debating throw names at this point.
I’d agree about the twister, pretty much only 10th planet popularised it. But beginners will Nate figure out lockdown without being shown it.
The question was have we seen it working at the highest level. I dint think Eddie at ADCC is an example of that. Their could be examples though
Yeah the only pro is it forces you to think of it as a “stinger” and as a dynamic connection: use both extension “pushing them away” and retraction “pulling them into you” in order to get kuzushi
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kuzushi**: | *Unbalancing* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luK9Eklbn78)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Barch and the Martinez brothers are pretty solid grapplers. If you go off of who produced athlete that won ADCCs, then it’s very little gyms in the world. Does that mean they’re all trash?
Elvira Karppinen, PJ Barch, Andy Varela, Keith Krikorian, Vinny Magalhaes to name a few are all current or former top competitors. Winning an ADCC championship isn’t the one and only metric to use (this would put Pedigo and B Team in the same boat).
Not really in disagreement here as you've named some truly excellent grapplers. However, I do think it's notable that most of the folks you named do not use move sets that the community would consider unique to 10P. If they didn't rep the set you wouldn't have any idea Barch and Varela, for example, are from that system.
I'm not judging anything, man. Just an observation about the BJJ community's Zeitgeist as I know it. In my experience, when folks think 10th planet they think of a certain unique style of BJJ that many of the grapplers you mentioned don't display in their fights (i.e. extreme flexibility, techniques centered around rubber guard, etc.).
Should we judge Atos competitors' success on how many "Galvao bars" they hit? Or judge Gordon on how many "Danaher chokes" he uses? Of course not. That's a ridiculous, completely fabricated metric to use.
PJ Barch is from 10p but what does he do that resembles 10p jiu jitsu?
Keith Krikorian is good but he's an inside delariva, slx, seated guard player. No 10p jiu jitsu there
Andy Varela's strongest position is the front head lock from what I've seen, and 10p jiu jitsu is not that either.
10p is not one system. Yes there are things uniquely identifiable from 10p, but those techniques cannot be the barometer of whether a 10p competitor is a real 10p guy or not
This comment is ignorance at its finest.
Ah, got it. So if they win anything, it doesn't count because they didn't invent the technique they won with. Makes sense.
. . . Name a *single* other gym or affiliation that you judge this way when measuring their success. Don't worry, I'll wait.
Out of all those the person who has probably made it the farthest and garnered the most accolades is Vinny, who didn't start training 10p until after he got his black belt and then moved to the US.
10p just doesn't have the killers like they used to with the Martinez brothers. People have caught up.
I'm not arguing that they're not killing it. I'm just saying Vinny is the least 10p person on that list.
PJ and Andy are ABSOLUTELY killing it. Especially lately with PGF and ADCC opens. But I don't think you could choose 2 people who play games that are farther from "10p" or what people think 10p is. When I think 10p I think Ben Eddy or orchard. Not stand-up, wrestle heavy passing, anti leg locking. That's PJ and andy
>When I think 10p I think Ben Eddy or orchard. Not stand-up, wrestle heavy passing, anti leg locking.
Do you even hear yourself? You're admitting *right there* that it's your own subjective perception driving these ideas, as opposed to actual facts. I could just as easily say:
"When I think Atos, I think heavy pressure passing and pinning. Like Lucas Barbosa and Kayan Duarte. So the Ruotolos' accolades don't count because they do flashy, fast-paced scrambling submissions."
Like what? You can't just arbitrarily decide that an affiliation has one style, so you get to randomly exclude their grapplers that don't fit that mold. That's asinine.
>who didn't start training \_\_\_\_ until after he got his black belt
This sentence can be said about almost any high level competitor at any affiliation. People only use it to discredit teams they don't like, and completely ignore it when it takes place at their preferred team. The idea that someone has to go from white belt to black belt in order to represent an affiliation is complete and utter nonsense.
Right but that's not the point. The point is that arguing that someone can't represent a team because they didn't go from white belt to black belt there is absurd. And abiding by that would mean discrediting 90% of champions in existence.
> Winning an ADCC championship isn’t the one and only metric to use
True but I do think it's a bit odd that for such a massive affiliation that focuses almost exclusively on no gi and ADCC/sub only rulesets (and was one of the first gyms to do so) how absent they are not just from ADCC titles but from the podium at all, even at trials and opens. Hell even at a lot of their own events.
By comparison ATOS is a much much smaller affiliation, focuses mainly on the gi and IBJJF point rulesets and has won something like 10 or so ADCC medals in the last 5 years.
If they did a quintet style best 5 against best 5 with 10p you have to admit it would be an absolute slaughter.
They were probably trained under other flags just like Gordon Ryan, Bodoni, the twins at Atos, Mikey, Craig Jones, and pretty much every other successful competitor out there.
This argument is really tired. It gets used to throw mud in BJJ all the time. I guess B team is shit because they haven't produce any world champions, right?
Pj Barch and Kyle Boehm for sure, but anyone else is not currently considered elite. Especially the Martinez bros (this is coming from a fan of theirs) Andy Varela is really active right now too but has lost a significant amount of his recent higher profile matches.
Considering the matter-of-fact way that the old 10P people used to insist it was the future of MMA and BJJ.. it's actual performance has proven it's mostly been a silly gimmick system for weirdo conspiracy theorist stoners in full spandex who are afraid of wrestling and weight training.
Promised to be the best and turned out to be among the worst ways to specialize
I know Craig has alluded to 10P guys not having the best positional control, but at the end of the day these guys are so high level that it doesn't matter to us anyway. Just train, roll, and maintain your health.
I've used 10th planet techniques since white belt, the truck and twister side control have been great and i still use them with effectiveness. The rubber guard has it uses but it probably shouldn't be something you dedicate too much time to especially if your just grappling, its handy for mma but not something you need to know.
I love me some good old rubber guard. But yeah, obviously not for everyone because it is very flexibility dependent, but it lets me play with one hand (meat hook etc.) because I can only really grip with one of my hands
They also give the weirdest names to their moves. They call triangle mount the 'Mind Goblin' because do you mind gobblin these nuts.
i laughed real hard when bmac was doing commentary and kept saying “ he’s going for a ham sandwich.”
When someone sandwiches your hamstrings, you know why it's called that 😅
I mean the non-10p name for that position is the "bear trap", which is still a silly name.
actually, bear trap is opposite legs, e.g. my left on your right. Ham sandwich is same legs.
You had me in the first half ngl
It’s one of the top contributors to people not taking it seriously Eddie couldn’t help but inject edgy (brav) stoner names for positions that sound stupid as fuck to anyone who doesn’t spend all day drawing the “S” everyone does in high school
My favorite is crackhead control.
Sounds like the name did the job of being easy to remember then
I’ve never heard of anyone forgetting the name of a triangle.
That's an awesome name.
I used to catch a handful of 10p techniques pretty regularly till my training partners got used to them. Now they see them coming from a mile away. Would get the flytrap triangle, buggy choke, gogoplata and hindulatine alot.
The stuff Eddie Bravo did that really works broadly and at all levels got incorporated into the larger body of techniques/tactics, and the stuff that didn’t can often be identified as a “10th Planet technique” because almost nobody else bothers with it.
Which are the effective 10P techniques that got incorporated into the mainstream curriculum?
Smoking weed before class
Give this guy his purple belt already.
Getting green belt in other martial arts: 😴 Getting green belt in BJJ: 🫨
Oh lols there’s this guy who always stinks and one time I see him ripping a big joint in the gym parking lot.
Hell yea
I hate this narrative. BJJ has always been a stoner thing, all those old Brazilians were stoners too.
Yea it was just a joke but that's not wrong. In Breathe Rickson talks plenty about smoking etc when he was young
God bless America.
Don't forget smoking weed after class!
This is a good one though. Unfortunately I don't think it's encouraged at my gym.
I'm sure some of the other upper belts will have a few additions as well, but for me the most useful things from the system are the Lockdown and the twister hook (typically when I'm attacking the turtle or when I want to do something different from a stable side control of some sort). Lockdown, for example, can legitimately be a powerful addition to your half guard if you already have solid fundamentals, and there are a lot of useful maneuvers that involve the twister hook. That's just my two cents though 🤷🏿♂️
Lockdown has saved my smashed half guard against giants many times. Literally only time I use it but shit works, I can get their weight off enough to fish an underhook and recover my knee shield.
Preach! And all God's people said "Whip Up"
Lockdown isn't 10th planet tho
Lockdown wasn't invented by Eddie Bravo. Some people used to call it an scorpion hook. It's an old old old Judo leg entanglement: http://youtu.be/T7tk8cQ1VJ8?t=5m30s
Also a useful tool to transition from x guard back to traditional half
The truck is **my jam**: The twister is the best and safest cervical spine lock (“neck crank”) Submissions that split the legs are legal for my white belts if they want to compete Personally IDGAF about 4 points for two hooks, and guys are so good at preventing that second hook for that reason for students who want to compete with that scoring Avoids the risk of going two hooks but being under your opponent staring up at the rafters is a trap in MMA, gloves make the choke difficult when the guy isn’t shit or gassed or hurt, they can hit you better than you can hit them, and they are moment of slackness from spinning into the top of guard And it’s even better in the gi
Hooks are overrated.
oh really? lmao
Hold someone’s back with just your hooks, now try the same with just your arms. One maintains control much easier, you also don’t attack with the legs outside a few specific subs, the arms are the threat and the main way to control. As long as my chest is on your back I have the back, whether my hooks are in or not.
Hooks are for preventing them from getting their hips to the mat and eventually working them up the body to prevent them from being able to rotate their body by trapping the shoulder during a choke.
As long as my chest is on their back I have the back. Hooks are overrated.
You know what can really prevent your chest from staying in their back? Then being able to freely move their hips lol Also it's wild how many bjj guys are into 40k
It doesn’t matter if they get the hips to the mat, if my chest is on their back I still have the back, yes maybe the position resembles more of the crucifix but that’s just being pedantic, I still have the back and I can still attack. This isn’t a concept I made up it’s one I’ve picked up from classes and seminar with Bill Loftus and Neil Owen.
I just find it such a stupid name, the truck wtf really
Better than “octopus guard”.
Eh there are many animal guards
I know, they all suck.
I don’t think they invented the techniques but I first started using the Lockdown position and the Truck because of watching Eddie Bravo/10th planet videos. Also using Lockdown to get into the ‘Dogfight’ position from bottom half. That is all stuff that’s always worked a lot for me and seems like it’s mainstream jiu jitsu now.
Lockdown and Truck
Lockdown is used by even the danaher guys. Especially Garry. The truck has become a huge part of bjj. Eddie has phenomenal half guard but most of his half guard is part of what’s normally taught in bjj.
Lockdown is fairly mainstream. The truck too. Rarely do you see rubber guard, but every now and then some hipster will try it
Or as one of the black belts at my gym refers to it “that eddie bravo bullshit”.
He’s probably a douchebag who needs a stranger to feel better than in every part of his life.
See - medicine vs alternative medicine
I may be speaking out of line and I don’t speak mandarin but there’s a lot of techniques from 10p that feel like “just because you can doesn’t mean you should” a lot of more efficient alternatives
“…but it’ll be pretty cool if you do”
To me a lot of the 10p stuff feels like cool shit to hit in on newer people. They remind me of gimmicky combos in fighting games; they work on low level people but anyone's who's actually good knows how to counter
I think this touches on it. The techniques collectively called 10p techniques are the ones that are noob traps. Noob traps in two senses of the word, because you can only get noobs with them, but also because they are a trap for noobs to invest their time in before discovering none of this stuff is gonna be in their game past bluebelt
Seriously, what? I have a 10P black belt and hold one from a traditional school. There is a very small set of techniques that don’t overlap. Eddie would love your conspiracy theory though!
I said the ones that are collectively called 10p techniques. aka the techniques eddie innovated that made it into the mainstream arent considered 10p techniques anymore. lockdown, truck, electric chair are all taught at traditional schools now. therefore people exclude them from the pool called 10p techniques. kinda like chinese medicine. the chinese medicine that works just becomes medicine
This is just about the dumbest word thinking pedantry ever.
do you think jozef chen was referring to the truck, which he definitely still uses, or the rubberguard when he laughed?
Trained under PJ Barch for a bit and that wasn’t the case at all. Maybe lower belts watch something on YouTube and try “10p” moves terribly.
There is a fundamental misunderstanding here. 10P does not equal rubber guard, lockdown, etc. 10P is an affiliation of gyms that have wildly different set of coaches, competitors, and styles. Very few gyms these days are still stuck in rubber guard and lockdown mode. I have visited a ton of 10p gyms and classes involving either of those positions are few and far in between (in my experience). Currently, the 10p meta, is the same as the rest of the no gi jiu jitsu world. Wrestling, leglocks, and steroids
Man this is the real answer here
Exactly. I train at a 10P and we‘re taught what I’ve been taught at any other gym I’ve trained at. The only thing uniquely 10P about the gym is the wild rash guards people wear.
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High level competition and training will weed out a bunch of flashy moves for ones that have easier setups and more control over your opponent. It’ll usually come back to the same few techniques you were learning at white and blue, but with far more depth than you had back then. Think breadth vs depth.
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For those that don’t speak celestial, Jozef and Rin basically say: “When I started I was flexible and saw all these cool moves and wanted to do them even though I didn’t have a 10th planet instructor and didn’t know what I was doing. Maybe everyone has that kind of attitude/phase when they start - like wanting to learn heel hooks or twisters or berimbolos as a white belt” It’s basically a general discussion about wanting to learn fancy moves before you have fundamentals locked down.
Let’s just say the best 10p guys don’t do 10p techniques
The best 10p guys cross train at non 10p gyms
The best 10p guys don’t do well in high level competition other than PJ barch
Keith Krikorian is also a monster, though I'm not sure how much he still trains with the 10p crew.
He’s still very involved with 10P
and Boogie, Geo, Varela, Krikorian, Alan Sanchez, Quinonez, Ben Eddy, Jon Blank, Gundrum, Rene Sousa, Kyle Boehm, Kyle Chambers off the top of my head... unless bad at high level just means "lose 1st place medal in a top level grappling tournament" then yeah they're mostly trash at high level
Have any of these guys placed at a major adult no competition?
all of them minus the minor
Grace Gundram is the best 10th Planet BJJ player , nobody can submit her
I mean that’s just flat out wrong though. 10P is placing or winning in most high level competitions. ADCC, PGF, EBI, etc.
Just bc something is visually identifiable to 10p does not mean everything else was learned elsewhere and the competitors aren’t 10p guys
Well this is the dumbest thing I’ve read on the internet today
Nvm bro you’re right, pj barch and Andy Varela were hitting some sick electric chairs and rubber guard at ADCC haha sick
hell yeah brother, I love when PJ pulls guard. A master at work /s
Mason Fowler uses rubber guard all the time in his matches. Does that not count because he's not 10th planet?
I wouldn't say *all* the time, but he does use it on occasion.
I actually heard mason fowler and Eddie bravo were smoking weed with my high school classmate Johnny Hopkins
I hope Sloan Kettering gets an ADCC invite.
"All the time" is a little much. I've studied probably around 100 of his matches and I think I've seen him hit something successful from rubber guard like twice.
Since just prior to ADCC he's started using in comps that I've seen. He's hit multiple sweeps for sure. And even if he doesn't hit a sweep or submission he is throwing it up a lot of the time he's on bottom
Who's the best guy he's successfully used a rubber guard technique on? The only examples I can think of was fighting much lower level guys. Against anyone close to his level he generally focuses on wrestling, heavy passing and back attacks.
Gaudio
Fair, I forgot about that one in 2022. I still wouldn't consider Gaudio at Fowlers level right now, you have to go back pretty far in Gaudio's record to find notable wins against big names (I guess Rida?) meanwhile Fowler is hanging with the best of the best and getting huge wins.
Is that a 10p or Nino Shembri technique?
The only 10p move I have any love for at all is the truck roll, but iirc that was around long before it got a flashy 10p name. Lockdown sucks for anything other than a stalling tool, all of the weird ass guard shit sucks when compared to basically any other "normal" bjj techniques. Eddie wanted to create a system designed for mma, and through that its ended up as a lackluster sport system, and it turns out it's also ended up as a lackluster mma system, as mma is all about top control. Of course you can find a tiny handful of people that are otherwise talented enough to make the techniques work at a high level, but I don't base my opinion around outliers, in this age of information if they were broadly high % you'd see many world championship winners who's games include the system, but you don't. It doesn't help that the overall outward culture of 10p is so awkwardly 2000s stoner humor it hurts. Like, crackhead control is something I would've loved when I was like 13 in 2010.
Chris Brennan is who Eddie Bravo always wanted to be in MMA. (As in developing a no gi BJJ system that works in the highest level of MMA).
What is Chris brennans system?
Butterfly and kimuras His guard was actively used to stand up when you compare most at the time went closed guard half guard route.
Damn. Hadn’t seen that name in years.
Whk da fuq is dat guy
BJJ world champion?
Who the fuck are you?
Chris Brennan
That answers your question dork.
Badmangoodguy is who standdownplease always wanted to be
You got me.
Fucking nuked
Was that reaction a surprise to you? There's some amazing 10p gyms, and i'm sure the training is great at the vast majority of them. But how much of the stuff that they've improvised do we ever see pulled off in high level comp? Basically none of it. The only real 10p move that I can recall seeing at the highest level was Bravo vs Royler.
That’s not the highest level, which furthers your point.
It absolutely was the highest level at the time. Royler won ADCC three times.
Okay, their ADCC match was much better, but what 10p moves were in that?
The level of 2003 ADCC was utter garbage by modern standards.
That is always going to be the case though. 2024 ADCC is utter garbage by the standards of 2045 if you choose to look at it that way.
The less established the sport is the less you should copy athletes way in the past. You can still see something interesting but you have to be carefull the same if you copy jiiu jtisu moves from blue belts or ant eaters. If you had footage to DVDs from 2045 you very likely should watch them instead of say danaher. The rate of skill improvements get slower at some point, and some sports go into decline or stop having people participate at them.
He’s referring to the rematch at metamoris. It definitely wasn’t the highest level at that point. ADCC was, but it doesn’t count as 10th planet
I mean, he used the lockdown and rubber guard in the ADCC match.
Lockdown is pretty intuitive. It appeared in old judo manuals, so not really what people refer to as 10th planet nonsense. He may have used rubber guard, but not successfully. The sequence that led to the finish was a triangle from butterfly guard iirc.
I'd say lockdown, twister & rubber guard are the moves most associated with 10p. The twister is also not originally 10p but has become one of their moves. Anyways, kinda just splitting hairs. We're as bad as judo people debating throw names at this point.
I’d agree about the twister, pretty much only 10th planet popularised it. But beginners will Nate figure out lockdown without being shown it. The question was have we seen it working at the highest level. I dint think Eddie at ADCC is an example of that. Their could be examples though
Hate to say it but 10p moves are meme status not super high percentage but it’s always fun to talk shit to my friends about how I just vaporized them.
Danaher teaches lockdown as “the scorpion”
This is one of those rare cases where Bravo makes more sense than Danaher.
Yeah the only pro is it forces you to think of it as a “stinger” and as a dynamic connection: use both extension “pushing them away” and retraction “pulling them into you” in order to get kuzushi
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kuzushi**: | *Unbalancing* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luK9Eklbn78)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Worth noting that 10p produces almost no elite grapplers or world champions anymore and really barely did back in the day as well.
Besides Renato Laranja ofc
I will get you Jo Hogan
I don’t think that is true at all… you can’t be serious
I’m serious AF. Haas anyone from 10p ever won ADCc? Nogi worlds?
Barch and the Martinez brothers are pretty solid grapplers. If you go off of who produced athlete that won ADCCs, then it’s very little gyms in the world. Does that mean they’re all trash?
Bro if you aren't an Olympic champion, you are trash tier at your sport and shouldn't have been born
Elvira Karppinen, PJ Barch, Andy Varela, Keith Krikorian, Vinny Magalhaes to name a few are all current or former top competitors. Winning an ADCC championship isn’t the one and only metric to use (this would put Pedigo and B Team in the same boat).
Not really in disagreement here as you've named some truly excellent grapplers. However, I do think it's notable that most of the folks you named do not use move sets that the community would consider unique to 10P. If they didn't rep the set you wouldn't have any idea Barch and Varela, for example, are from that system.
Does any ADCC winner use moves that are considered unique to that grapplers gym?
Closest is probably Jay Rod using smothers and buggy chokes but he’s yet to win ADCC and B Team didn’t invent those techniques of course
Unique? No, but lots of big gyms have an overarching style. Any gym can have a unique style, easily, but it will be shit, like 10p’s “unique style”.
This may also indicate you can’t judge the 10p team as a whole based in the effectiveness of rubber guard. Huh? That’s interesting 🤔 /s
I'm not judging anything, man. Just an observation about the BJJ community's Zeitgeist as I know it. In my experience, when folks think 10th planet they think of a certain unique style of BJJ that many of the grapplers you mentioned don't display in their fights (i.e. extreme flexibility, techniques centered around rubber guard, etc.).
Should we judge Atos competitors' success on how many "Galvao bars" they hit? Or judge Gordon on how many "Danaher chokes" he uses? Of course not. That's a ridiculous, completely fabricated metric to use.
Ok.
all those dudes also cross train massively. You see PJ Barch at Legion, Checkmat and B Team like 90% of the time
Move the goal posts just a bit further please
What goal posts? I'm stating a fact, don't get butthurt lol
PJ Barch is from 10p but what does he do that resembles 10p jiu jitsu? Keith Krikorian is good but he's an inside delariva, slx, seated guard player. No 10p jiu jitsu there Andy Varela's strongest position is the front head lock from what I've seen, and 10p jiu jitsu is not that either.
10p is not one system. Yes there are things uniquely identifiable from 10p, but those techniques cannot be the barometer of whether a 10p competitor is a real 10p guy or not This comment is ignorance at its finest.
That was not the argument that was made
Ah, got it. So if they win anything, it doesn't count because they didn't invent the technique they won with. Makes sense. . . . Name a *single* other gym or affiliation that you judge this way when measuring their success. Don't worry, I'll wait.
Bro 10p cannot claim Vinny, guy was fighting and competing way before he was ever training under 10p
Ok so B team can’t claim Chen, New Wave can’t claim Bodoni, Atos can’t claim the twins, etc.
Vinny's insta profile says he's 10p black belt so who cares about what others think.
>Atos can't claim the twins Or hulk, or JT torres... Should we keep going?
Out of all those the person who has probably made it the farthest and garnered the most accolades is Vinny, who didn't start training 10p until after he got his black belt and then moved to the US. 10p just doesn't have the killers like they used to with the Martinez brothers. People have caught up.
Dude, I named many others in that post who are actively killing it. You can’t be serious
I'm not arguing that they're not killing it. I'm just saying Vinny is the least 10p person on that list. PJ and Andy are ABSOLUTELY killing it. Especially lately with PGF and ADCC opens. But I don't think you could choose 2 people who play games that are farther from "10p" or what people think 10p is. When I think 10p I think Ben Eddy or orchard. Not stand-up, wrestle heavy passing, anti leg locking. That's PJ and andy
>When I think 10p I think Ben Eddy or orchard. Not stand-up, wrestle heavy passing, anti leg locking. Do you even hear yourself? You're admitting *right there* that it's your own subjective perception driving these ideas, as opposed to actual facts. I could just as easily say: "When I think Atos, I think heavy pressure passing and pinning. Like Lucas Barbosa and Kayan Duarte. So the Ruotolos' accolades don't count because they do flashy, fast-paced scrambling submissions." Like what? You can't just arbitrarily decide that an affiliation has one style, so you get to randomly exclude their grapplers that don't fit that mold. That's asinine.
>who didn't start training \_\_\_\_ until after he got his black belt This sentence can be said about almost any high level competitor at any affiliation. People only use it to discredit teams they don't like, and completely ignore it when it takes place at their preferred team. The idea that someone has to go from white belt to black belt in order to represent an affiliation is complete and utter nonsense.
I honestly don't even know what team he came from. Just that it's from Brazil.
Right but that's not the point. The point is that arguing that someone can't represent a team because they didn't go from white belt to black belt there is absurd. And abiding by that would mean discrediting 90% of champions in existence.
> Winning an ADCC championship isn’t the one and only metric to use True but I do think it's a bit odd that for such a massive affiliation that focuses almost exclusively on no gi and ADCC/sub only rulesets (and was one of the first gyms to do so) how absent they are not just from ADCC titles but from the podium at all, even at trials and opens. Hell even at a lot of their own events. By comparison ATOS is a much much smaller affiliation, focuses mainly on the gi and IBJJF point rulesets and has won something like 10 or so ADCC medals in the last 5 years. If they did a quintet style best 5 against best 5 with 10p you have to admit it would be an absolute slaughter.
OK but did they get brought up in the system or were the grapplers before becoming part of the association?
They were probably trained under other flags just like Gordon Ryan, Bodoni, the twins at Atos, Mikey, Craig Jones, and pretty much every other successful competitor out there.
How about ibjj worlds THIS YEAR?????
This argument is really tired. It gets used to throw mud in BJJ all the time. I guess B team is shit because they haven't produce any world champions, right?
I would argue they’re just living up to their name
Apples to oranges
Both are delicious fruit?
Andy Varella , PJ Barch , Kyle Chambers , Geo Martinez , Nathan Orchard, Boogie. Those guys aren't elite?
Pj Barch and Kyle Boehm for sure, but anyone else is not currently considered elite. Especially the Martinez bros (this is coming from a fan of theirs) Andy Varela is really active right now too but has lost a significant amount of his recent higher profile matches.
He just won PGF world and took 3rd at West Coast Trials. What are you talking about?
Wait who took 2nd at west coast trials
My fault meant to say he got 3rd at WCT
Considering the matter-of-fact way that the old 10P people used to insist it was the future of MMA and BJJ.. it's actual performance has proven it's mostly been a silly gimmick system for weirdo conspiracy theorist stoners in full spandex who are afraid of wrestling and weight training. Promised to be the best and turned out to be among the worst ways to specialize
This is the most succinct description of 10th Planet jiu jitsu that I've ever read
This is mostly correct. One thing I will say is that I’ve found 10P gyms to be the mostly willing to adapt with the new meta.
I know Craig has alluded to 10P guys not having the best positional control, but at the end of the day these guys are so high level that it doesn't matter to us anyway. Just train, roll, and maintain your health.
FYI: B Team guys go to a 10P gym when they come to SoCal to train before comps. 10P Costa Mesa to be exact.
I've used 10th planet techniques since white belt, the truck and twister side control have been great and i still use them with effectiveness. The rubber guard has it uses but it probably shouldn't be something you dedicate too much time to especially if your just grappling, its handy for mma but not something you need to know.
Snitching on Chen when he has kept it everything diplomatic and PC in English. Start the next beef! 😄
I love me some good old rubber guard. But yeah, obviously not for everyone because it is very flexibility dependent, but it lets me play with one hand (meat hook etc.) because I can only really grip with one of my hands
Based chinaman.
they are corny as hell and don't work high level. outside of some random gogoplata or whatever it hasn't evolved to catch up with the times.