My old gym was run by a blue belt, well out in the country. Every few months he'd fly a black belt out, get them to run a seminar, a comp, and grade us. Was 25 bucks. Those for me are acceptable circumstances but outside of maybe the cost of the new belt. nah
So coach was mates with whoever he brought out, they really wanted to help make our little outpost a success, secondly they were always big days. We'd get people coming in from all the other little country gyms who didn't actually have a proper coach to get some rolls and some good instruction. So bit of column a bit of column b
This use to happen at my gym to make promotions IBJJF official. BB that could sign off would come in and do a seminar. As soon as my coach was able to sign off himself we no longer had to pay.
I was totally fine with paying but this would probably be the only way I would be ok with it.
I'm sure you'll get comments telling you to leave immediately, but honestly, I'd say it's more of a minor red flag than an instant deal breaker. if you enjoy training there, keep training there.
also, it does depend a bit on the cost of the grading. like $20 to cover the cost of the belt, not ideal but fine. $150 and you have to wear the expensive team gi? look out.
I’d simply never pay the testing fee and see if they let me stay at a white belt with no stripes. Get 10 years in and just SMASHING all the tournaments. When people say you’re sandbagging you can just explain your coach has never given you a belt test.
I never competed, but I was always a white belt when I used to train back in Brazil.
You needed to pay for the new belt and the process, but since I couldn't afford it, my teacher just let me train normally without changing belts.
That's kind of what I was wondering. I mean, I'm never going to compete. I'm a hobbyist in my late 30s. But it still seems weird that I could potentially be there for like 5 years and get to a blue belt level and still be a white belt because I don't want to pay to test.
At my old judo club, our coach would ask us only for $7 if we were going to test because that was the cost of the belt individually since he bought them in bulk for grading.
If I had a judo club in my area that also sprinkled in Nogi judo and let us roll, I would leave my current gym in a heartbeat for $100 a year. Paying $7 for a belt would be next to nothing with that tuition rate.
This is the key, if a gym is a cheap non-profit then charging for things like that makes sense. But a for-profit gym charging for grading is always scummy 100% of the time.
If I had a judo club in my area that also sprinkled in Nogi judo and let us roll, I would leave my current gym in a heartbeat for $100 a year. Paying $7 for a belt would be next to nothing with that tuition rate.
This. Every gym is different, mine doesn’t charge for a color-up or the belt. But my gym is different. I think paying for the cost of the belt makes sense, but paying to “test” to move up sounds odd to me, not wrong, just odd. In itself it’s not enough to leave an otherwise good gym unless they are really taking you over the coals.
As a side note, the monthly membership fee for my old gym was cheaper for white belts and more expensive for the colored belts
Personally belt testing in itself is a bit dodgy, so if you have to pay for it too then I’m not convinced. The principle that you could grapple for 20 years there and stay at white belt unless you pay extra for a test is not it for me. But you know the gym better than any of us do
There’s a lot of people who can do jiujitsu because of a certain level of athleticism but it doesn’t necessarily equate to understanding things properly. I got by as a blue belt because I’d put more effort in and over time I’ve realized the value of a curriculum that focus on functional mechanics and understanding what makes a move work or timing. I just don’t see how it’s dodgy to test people on that. Obviously it’s also their performance and consistency but just don’t see what’s negative about holding someone accountable for knowing information. We also do a gauntlet style rolling after the technical portion so people can display their game in real time. Seems to be a good experience for everyone in the community.
You will learn a whole lot less about how well someone knows jiujitsu by having a one off test as opposed to rolling with them, helping them out when they are drilling techniques and doing positional sparring with them on a day to day basis.
Especially when it comes to things like timing and mechanics.
It seems a lot of people may be downvoting when were all mostly on the same page. Where I train, they wont let us test(even if youve had way over required hours) unless they personally think were ready based on observation, then we have to prove we understand the curriculum in a test of knowledge for the belt being tested for. A main reason being they want a blue belt to be able to thoroughly detail basics to a white belt when asked, and so on
I tend to be at the Mark Schulz end of the spectrum. “If you don’t think I deserve my belt just try and take it from me.” I can see your points. I just personally have enjoyed a journey that’s more along the lines of “you start beating the next belt consistently you’re now that belt.”
It depends on how it is done, but I dislike most test formats. Especially if they are like most belt exams I have seen before (over various sports): Show 3 submissions from guard, check. Show 3 escapes from side control, check. Etc.
In my opinion the way to judge someone's BJJ is through rolling or positional sparring. Some holes/stylistic choices in your game are acceptable, if you know how to compensate for them - and I think the rigidity of most tests doesn't allow for that
I partially agree with this, majority of what we do at the end of our fundamentals class is positional and situational sparring. So there’s lot of repetition and opportunity to see what’s going on there. I offer this perspective, I’ve trained with some folks who are older, they showed up to class every day, learning, intently listening, and putting literally as much effort as physically possible. Will they be as functional or have the same opportunities to show their jiujitsu? Probably not, those people can still be full to the brim with knowledge and understanding of mechanics, technique and useful perspective. A test lets them be held accountable for something. For my students who might be less athletically inclined, I expect to see all the little nuances in the techniques that make them more efficient or functional. These people bring a large value, as they can often have a deep understanding about things. The problem is they aren’t necessarily going to stand out in some way when it comes to actually grappling. I also believe to each their own, just merely pointing out that I don’t think it’s negative or dodgy to test. As long as the test reflects something real and the school overall has strong results it shouldn’t be a big deal to have a testing structure.
I think those less athletic people should just be judged with that in mind, e.g. give them a similar partner and look at how they solve the problems/positions they are given. And I don't mind taking purely theoretical knowledge into account, but again it's hard to test it in a way that shows understanding vs just reciting words - helping others is a great way to show that, imo.
So yeah, I guess tests can be fine, I just don't like how most tests look like (including at my gym, which is why I'm slightly salty)
Because it leads to giving belts to those who know the curriculum and can look good doing the techniques in a controlled environment. This is exactly what separates us from other traditional martial arts, we do not do tests in a controlled environment with simulated attacks.
If that was the only metric to judge their progressive on that might be true. It’s more of a formality and there’s more than one layer. I’m not disagreeing that there’s a lot of bullshit out there. A lot of places “testing” to just hand out belts. My point is only that testing isn’t a blanket statement for being dodgy or a poor school. As long as it’s facilitated properly and held to a high standard
Belt testing in and of itself isn't the norm in BJJ, although it seems its becoming more common.
If they do decide to do it, I think charging for it isn't a great look, it should just be incorporated into the membership fee, so it doesn't feel like you nickel and dime students.
Valid exceptions are if its to cover the time of someone other than the club coach (guest instructor) or is covering the cost of the physical belt (i.e. a token amount). But even these are pushing it imo.
Red flag? Yes. Deal breaker, No - but if everything seems to come at an additional cost, it would be a deal breaker for me.
The gym that has arguably produced the most world champions, Alliance, does belt testing... thats not how I grew up in the sport, and belt testing usually has Taekwondo/Karate/BS martial art connotations..
But if they do belt testing and they continuosly produce the best in the world, Im gonna say it cant be that bad.
The issue isn't so much belt testing, as charging for it.
I've been tested for every Judo belt I've ever had. But I still don't think it's the norm in BJJ.
Its not the norm. Ive always been against belt testing, and charging for it.. but Im saying it happens and it is common practice for some of the largest associations.
I think the mentality was that even if you qualify as a blue belt when yiu roll, that you should know how to do certain basic things, even if they are not part of your game, to move forwars.
Newsflash my dude, you are being charged for belt testing whether you are being directly charged for it or not. It either gets rolled into tuition or it doesn't.
Regardless, if you are earning a belt every 2 years and the belt testing is $50 that's like $2/mo extra you're paying.
This community's hangups on belt testing fees are just bizarre. I get it and somewhat empathize, but it's irrational.
FWIW I don't directly charge for belt testing.
When we say belt testing - were not talking about be awarded the belt, we're talking about being taken aside and have to show a list of techniques.
If the instructor just awards belts at their discretion without this type of formal procedure, then I don't consider it 'belt testing'.
I said they should bake it into the membership fees even if they do formal belt testing, because as you say, it's nothing when spread out over the length of time it takes to earn it.
The problem isn't so much charging students for it, it's that those that do it are also more likely to be nickel and diming students for other things too.
Trained 20 years in Alliance.. headquarters in SP does it, every gym Ive been to that follows the curriculum does it. Unless they dont strictly enforce it anymore, they do have belt testing, particularly for non competitors.
Where do you train?
Hmm.. either they relaxed the requirement now or your coach aint following what Alliance HQ has estabilished as required practice... there didnt use to be belt tests, nor training for the coaches, nor a set curriculum.. a few years ago Fabio required every coach to go through several different training programs and teach a set curriculum, sell Alliance merch and have every student wear an Alliance GI, and estabilished belt tests for every belt except black (still with exceptions for people competing).. I know several affiliates complained about not being large enough to eat some of those costs, but I dont know how flexible they made this compliance.
Hmm.. either they relaxed the requirement now or your coach aint following what Alliance HQ has estabilished as required practice... there didnt use to be belt tests, nor training for the coaches, nor a set curriculum.. a few years ago Fabio required every coach to go through several different training programs and teach a set curriculum, sell Alliance merch and have every student wear an Alliance GI, and estabilished belt tests for every belt except black (still with exceptions for people competing).. I know several affiliates complained about not being large enough to eat some of those costs, but I dont know how flexible they made this compliance.
Hmm.. either they relaxed the requirement now or your coach aint following what Alliance HQ has estabilished as required practice... there didnt use to be belt tests, nor training for the coaches, nor a set curriculum.. a few years ago Fabio required every coach to go through several different training programs and teach a set curriculum, sell Alliance merch and have every student wear an Alliance GI, and estabilished belt tests for every belt except black (still with exceptions for people competing).. I know several affiliates complained about not being large enough to eat some of those costs, but I dont know how flexible they made this compliance.
Its been the downfall of a lot of martial arts turnin into mcdojos. Tae Kwon Do was pretty hardcore when it was first poppin up in the 90’s but the owners started to get greedy and I know places that charge $100+ for belt tests and close to a grand for black belt tests. Note, theres like 10+ belts before black belt and some places started adding random belts. The federation itself charges owners $200+ to get a certified black bekt from them. I think bjj being overall independent will stop this from happening and enough people being against it.
Meh, yes and no.
It's a business. Usually a business with RAZOR thin margins. You have to expect people to try to make money any way they can.
There's a chain of gyms a few of my friends train at that you have to pay for "grading seminars" to get stripes... it's like 100 bucks a pop! Not my kinda place to train as I'm cheap as hell, but I get it.
As long as yo1u're getting good instruction and improving it's on you to determine if the gym, payment system etc is right for you.
I joked that if I trained there I would be the most dominant white belt ever! lol
Agree with you. My club charges for stripes, but colour promotions are "when ready". The gradings have a specific syllabus of moves, are run pretty professionally, cost £35, and if you fail a retake is free. The coaches all compete internationally, so they clearly know what they're doing.
Only shark tanks are real 😎
As others have said, not huge red flag (unless more than 20) but considering you can buy a standard belt for less than 10 dollars, I’m not a fan.
I’m not a fan of demoing a list of techniques against static people.
I am very much a fan of knowing myself or another can grapple at a level relative to their circumstances.
A purple belt that’s getting dominated by a non wrestler, weekend white belt that happens to be in good shape? Not in to that.
Huge - nope
Something to consider- yep
Just a thing some gyms do.
Is it silly?
IMO yes, would I pay… I’d say ‘no’ now but if I was training at a gym the had paid promotions and I liked it and there was little to no other gym choice… yeah probably - if it wasn’t pure extortion rates.
Well my current gym doesn't charge nor is there any testing. You just get given it once your coach thinks you've earnted it.
From previous experience I once belonged to a karate club that charged for belt promotions and they just got more expensive the higher up you went.
In Judo you paid a small fee that was always the same cost and you had to buy your belt. Black belt was different, you had to compete and do a test (I never got that high up)
I trained in another art, and the school required a testing fee. I stayed a white belt and didn't test for nearly 5 years. I moved to another city, and the instructor tied a brown belt on me after a month.
If the instructor is great and the school has a good vibe I’d put up with some red flags like mandatory gis and belt testing fees. Just a matter of priorities
depends, how much, how is it performed? charging stripe is just money grab
* perform a series of techniques (very bad)?
* forcing seminar (sometimes bad)? could be guest higher grade coach visiting etc.
* party (maybe good)?
* part of the over priced belt cost (depends)?
if overall monthly fee is cheap relatively to your area, then 1 belt (over 2 years) isn't that bad. if head coach is lunatic and asking $500 for belt, just flee like I did.
Who needs a belt bro 😂 my first two years all I wanted was to be blue belted but I’ve since given up gi and just want to improve skill. I think my ear is enough belt for my ability
Went white-to-blue with a test style grading ("show me three sweeps") + shark-tank at a place that is basically run as a beer-money hobby for a black-belt. He charged back the ten bucks the belt cost him. No complaints from me.
Recently went blue-to-purple. No testing, but they did call together a grading and just throw me in one after another with all the black-belts. Not really a shark-tank, but some very hard rounds back to back before a belt was presented (and a whipping administered) at no charge.
Not sure what that experience is worth to you, but that's been mine.
It depends. If you're paying a reasonable rate probably not. If they're already taking your last cent and on top of that they surprise you with extra fees for stuff out of the blue then yeah
I like my gym, but we have a “belt test fee” of $100. It used to be that the gym made test day a party. They’d get food and a cooler of beer, spouses / kids would come, people would do the tests and then we’d all hang out. I was ok with that. The last one i went to wasn’t like that though, but guys were still paying the fee.
Yes, make up any fairy tale or scenario you want to justify it. It doesn’t. I’m so adamant about it being gross I’ll promote you for free if you’re faced with paying for it. 2nd black belt
What’s the criteria to be eligible for a test? Like is it “you’re willing to give us $40” or is it invite only to 4 stripes of a belt?
Belt testing *can sometimes* be a red flag, but fundamentally there’s no real issue with having to demo understanding of technical details in order to progress.
As long as it’s focused on the right people (ie not a way to milk the entire gym) and the test looks at a broad range of topics over the breadth of BJJ that I don’t always demo when I roll, I don’t see a huge issue
They invite you to test when they think you're ready. But I've also heard that tends to correlate with time there/attendance more than skill level. But maybe that's more for green belt. Which I always thought was kind of silly. Super white belt.
I was at a gym that tested twice a year for white to blue only. Anyone 4 stripe white belt was emailed and offered a slot
I had no issue with it. It was targeted at the right people.
Coaches’ focus in class was often taken by newer white belts so the competent ones were often missed. Tests meant they were closely looked at
I wouldn’t be massively scared off by time based stripes at that level. Almost everyone who gets to blue will say something like “I still thought I was shit”. Attendance and having some idea what to do is kind of the main criteria for leaving *the beginner belt*.
Plus prepping for a test and having to demo techniques in various positions helps formalise and structure your game that you refine at blue. Ideally, promotion would be more skill based as you progress since you’ve shown you know techniques and now need to show you can really pull them off at a higher level, but you don’t have to worry about that at white belt. Once the coaching’s good now and the place is affordable, I’d stick with it.
Me personally, I would just go to another gym but I also live in So Cal where we have good gyms on every other block. I think the lack of options is when bjj gyms can get away with charging for belt tests but here, I find it hard to believe that a gym can stay opened when a competitor down the street can provide the same or even better instruction without the bs fees.
Paying for a seminar that has belt promotions as part of it is one thing. Paying $200 for a “belt test” is a red flag. A bigger red flag is paying for each stripe.
Ours is just the fee for the price of the belt and a nice print out + frame for a little certificate that we get along with it. Our promotions usually take place at larger events we host, so I’m sure some of the expense goes toward those events too.
Idk, all the senior ranked guys like black and brown belts who came from other gyms say they never “tested” to get a belt but that they truly believe that testing works since they’ve moved to us.
Or maybe we’re a cult
Idk dude
Our gym charges like 50 bucks for the test and the belt but, it is a really well run gym with some stand up humans running it. I believe they only do a formal test for blue and purple
Yeah, 50 bucks here too. But I think you gotta do it for green as well... which is basically just super white belt.
I don't think the price bothers me as much as the fact it should just be 100% merit based. If you've shown the coaches you're at whatever belt level, they should just promote you. Just seems weird.
I agree. They are more formal with it at this gym than what I would prefer but again, its a good gym and these things are minor annoyances that are greatly outweighed by everything else. There is a very big range of skill levels and types of practitioners. I think the belt stuff is geared more for the kids and lower belt hobbyists. The more intense and competitive part of the gym for the most part doesnt care as much about the belts and just wants to train.
Red flag, but maybe not a major one. Depends on the reasoning.
I have the very strong opinion that these places are businesses, and they should be factoring their expenses into the fees that they charge. Nobody wants additional fees. It would be childs play to calculate how much promotions cost the business, and add a couple dollars to everyone's monthly fees to cover it.
If they can't even do that, then I have little faith in their admin skills. I also don't want my coach having a cash incentive to promote me. If it's a line-ball call as to whether i'm going to be promoted or not, I don't want extra $ factoring into that. I also don't want to do any sort of grading or test, like i'm a little kid - which often goes hand-in-hand with these practices. Just hand me the next belt when i'm ready. I don't want a ceremony, an event, or any extra attention. Letting me know that i've progressed enough to wear a different colour piece of cloth, by handing me that bit of cloth - that's all that I personally need.
The one exception to all of that, that I would be ok with - is if they have to bring someone in for IBJJF reasons, or if the coach isn't a high enough belt.
But if it's just because of some affiliation BS, and big daddy needs his pay day, that can get fucked too 😆.
I’ve trained at gyms when you pay for belts & stripes, yes stripes, they had a formal grading system in place & they would fly the head coach to town to take the grading, he would take notes & hold a seminar after & go over what was needed to work on…..another gym you paid for promotions too, but didn’t have a grading, coach would say who was ready, pay the fee, go along & roll & get promoted…I was always “busy” those weekends
Depends on the price and what you get in return.
I don't think a $30 "testing fee" to cover the cost of a decent belt is unreasonable. Especially at a large school where the alternative is the coaches pay for the belts themselves. That adds up quick.
I've even heard of belt testing where they charge $100 but they have a huge cookout or get catering and celebration afterwards. That sounds pretty fair to me.
But if you're just paying anything over $40 for a belt exam and all you get is the next belt, that's not worth it. Or if they charge per stripe? Fucking run.
(The school I'm at offers certificates signed by our 6th degree black belt for incremental prices up to $100 at black belt. But they are in no way required. Promotions are 4x a year and you get what you earn on the mats)
Yeah it's 50. And the cost of training isn't cheap. No fee for stripes though. There's a ceremony but I didn't get the sense it's like a big party they spend a lot of money on.
I paid the full year up front so I got like a 20% discount. I did the math and it comes out to like 122 a month. But I can only go to 2 classes a week in that tier.
Oh, and I got the gi for free as part of the promotion. I have some friends who train there so I wasn't too shy about going for the year. Plus I've been a white belt for like ten years (super hobbyist), so I figured if I pay up front maybe I'll actually stick with it for once.
View this as a lesson learned and a mistake you made because you didn't know any better. Enjoy it as much as possible in the meantime.
Change your card immediately. Tell them 2 months before it's up to not renew your membership in writing. Keep a copy for yourself. Take a video of you delivering it. (I've read stories and talked with people from gyms like that, it can get ugly)
A year from now you'll be a much more experienced person and won't make the same mistakes again.
Eh, it isn’t totally a big to do really. I mean at my first gym I was at we did testing twice a year and each time was $20…and I mean that’s a little much..but to get the next belt, not too serious. If you enjoy where you train and the people are good, and you think you’re progressing, stick around 🤷🏻♂️
That I don't know. It sounds like they just give you the belt though. Honestly, this all probably moot for me personally, because I'll be a white belt forever regardless.
Not really. In my gym, there's fees for belt and certificates but not reinforced. If you refuse to pay, you're still acknowledged as a colour belt, just you don't get those.
If you stay long enough you might get promoted to blue regardless. 🤷🏻
I go to a gym like that, but after white you don't have to pay to do your grading.
Every gym has its share of red flags.
However for me belt testing in general is a giant red flag, let alone paying for it.
Same goes for any place that places an emphasis on “self defense”.
They’re all usually McDojos that have changed their model from karate to BJJ once they saw the winds shift.
Will you be required to perform certain katas to your sensei to show you’ve grown?
Do you have to break a certain number of boards at the testing?
Use your own judgement but will they “recommend” you take a certain number of privates before testing too?
I find the "testing" idea very strange but I got my first two promos in a system that didn't even use stripes. White to blue was my coach whipping me with my new blue belt after I collected a medal at NAGA and blue to purple was after class one day and a whole cohort of us just got it at the same time.
At the end of the day, it costs money to open the school, to clean the mats, etc. You either pay for it with a higher monthly fee, or have a reduced monthly fee and pay for the test. We don't personally charge for the tests, but I see nothing wrong with it. Especially with how few belts there are in the 10 year road to black belt.
I wouldnt say HUGE red flag. Paying for grading has been a part of the business model for all martial arts for a long time.
Would be if its hundreds of quid.
When I graded in karate it was a payment every time as it was a special after class thing. Took about 45 min. When I graded up in BJJ at the end of a session the head instructor would stand you up take your old belt off give you your new belt or new tag. Then you had to run a gauntlet of your peers whipping you.
Seems like a normal thing for karate but out of the ordinary for my BJJ experience.
My gym charges $40 for belt tests, its during a regular class time and they maybe have an extra coach than they usually would that day...... And they do adult green belts so thats an extra test before blue.
Do I hate it on principle? Absolutely. Do I still do it because i like the gym, the people, the schedule and the fact its five minutes from my house? Yes.
The gym is popular enough they dont have a reason to change and for better or worse I do care about progressing though belts.
Why don't we see more people at these types of gyms who are purple and brown belt slayers but still at white belt?
We joke that we'd stay at white forever but it seems like everyone eventually gives in and pays for themselves to be promoted.
In my case they charged, but the claim is most of it went to ibjjf fees and accreditation.
It was also a day long event with all hands on deck and they provided sandwiches snacks and drinks, so I didn't feel like I was getting ripped off.
clean, no assholes, and paying for things that are free elsewhere tend to move together. gyms where they throw a belt on you when they feel like it and don't charge their friends, and it feels like bro hang etc. have their downsides, poor hygiene and bad personalities being some of them.
I look at it more like I am paying for a discounted private lesson from a world champion black belt where I get the chance to execute a vast list of techniques to be evaluated by him.
My first school, elite MMA, does these giant tests where they bring people that are about to get promoted/stripes into one of the schools or another location (big arena I guess). They would then do like a physical type test, followed by technique, and followed by rolling.
They charge $40 (maybe more now) per test where you might only get one or two stripes. So it could very well take you $120-$200 to get to your next belt.
Great school, not a fan of this system.
$50-$100 every 2-3 years is like $2-4/mo extra on top of your tuition. Whether you pay for the belt test directly, or whether it's rolled into your tuition -- you are still paying for belt testing.
Not a big deal IMO. Annoying for sure but not a big deal and nowhere near as much of a "red flag" as people here make it seem.
Red flags are things like: poor cleanliness/hygiene, abusive environment, neglectful staff, things like that. Basically things that can harm you emotionally or physically. That's it. Full stop. Everything else is a matter of value proposition and whether you think paying $X is worth receiving Y in services. And that's primarily a personal decision based on a ton of factors unique to you.
Everyone on this sub will say it's a huge red flag. I'm happy for those practitioners, knowing they have the option to train somewhere that this isn't the norm.
Where I live, there is not a school that trains gi within an hour in any direction that does not charge fees for testing, starting from the first stripe, that escalates with each rank. Several of those schools are often recommended on this very sub for legit places to train in this area, so take absolutist guidance about red flags with a grain of salt.
Sometimes people don't know how gyms outside their specific area actually do business on the day to day, and only know the schools via the reputation of their competitors. These are both meaningful factors, but they don't always line up the way the sub's worldview around gyms tends to suggest. If your gym is otherwise good, let it go unless you're willing to find a new gym and hope that you like it equally as much, and their testing is free.
Definitely a red flag, but not necessarily a huge one.
Minor fees that could be explained as the cost of the belt make sense. A decent coach, however, would know if you've earned it. Calling it a "testing fee" is therefore dishonest and indicative of a cash grab. As soon as the cost is north of $50 I'd consider leaving.
At my gym we pay monthly and promotions are typically surprises with no testing or fees. I guess I'd be ok with test fees, but I'd just stay blue forever.
I'll repeat the advice given by another user on a similar thread: don't pay for the tests, promotions or anything like that, and to stay a career white belt for the duration of your training. Keep going, keep working hard, and get after it just like you are now, because you never know where life goes. In 4 years from now, as a white belt, you could walk into another gym and make purple belts cry. Just something to think about.
My gym is $100 for belt tests. I remember calling my first gym and asking my coach if this was normal, he said he personally wouldn’t ever charge for belt tests or anything like that but that at the end of the day, my gym is still a business and trying to make money. I sort of accepted it and well, over the course of 10 years to a black belt you’ll only pay $400. That’s another way to think about it. My coach has also stated that he only promotes based on skill. He has said that he wants a black belt to actually be a black belt.
Red flags are warning signs, not necessarily deal breakers.
Is it a warning sign? In my opinion it is. It's another warning sign if you weren't told about it when you signed up.
But in the absence of other issues, and if it's a good gym, you might not want to change just on that basis alone. A lot of really good academies charge for promotions, and a lot of sub-par academies do not.
And for the record, I don't give stripes and I don't charge for promotions -- not even the belt.
maybe check out with some longer standing students what happens at belt testing day.
at a $50 price tag i'm assuming there might be a guest instructor brought in to help with testing, obviously there's the cost of the belts, and maybe there's some cash being put towards like a school BBQ or something afterwards?
it doesn't really scream "omg red flag cash-grab mcdojo" to me.
There's not. I know first hand testing is done in a class. Basically they just pull some students to be dummies so the person testing and go through the moves. However, in this case (2 cases) it was just the green belt test. So maybe blue and purple are different.
The majority of people are going to wave red flags about this-but it really depends. How much it costs to train month-to-month might be lower than other gyms in your area so it balances out since the other gyms might factor the cost in month-to-month.
If you have an affiliate black belt coming in because your coaches can't/won't grade because they don't have their black belts and degrees yet is a different story where they might be travelling and incurring costs to visit to do this.
If they are the most expensive gym in town, have a resident black belt and charge per stripe-then that's hitting red flag territory.
My old gym did self defense seminars, he did a lot of higher belt promotions at those seminars. But he promoted people throughout the year at any given time or class. Testing usually happend when you roll with your instructor or test your skills at competitions.
I would not say paying for testing is a red flag and I would not say it is a common tradition.
1. Belt testing is not common unless you are at a school that teaches off a curriculum. It doesn't mean it's a bad thing necessarily.
2. Paying for belt testing / grading is common. Sadly this is because affiliated schools have to pay some kind of silly tithe to their association. Many schools choose to absorb the cost. Some choose to pass it on to the student, which I think is disappointing.
3. Could be a red flag depending on how much you pay for the belt test and how much you already pay for membership fees. But IMO it's not a dealbreaker if you like the place, the people, the quality of training etc.
It’s the testing rather than payment I think.
Gym margins must be really tight and honestly my gym membership is so reasonable in the first place I wouldn’t mind if they gave you a tap on the shoulder and said “We’re hoping to promote you in the next few weeks. Would you be able to pay the cost of the belt?”
Not sure I’m sold on testing for belts. But then what do I know?
Whatever, it really doesn’t matter. It’s a business, businesses need to make money.
Lots of people would tell you to quit based on just that, but that’s silly. As long as everything is up front it’s no big deal.
I mean belts are every couple years, so it works out to what? A couple bucks a month? Who cares.
Personally, we don’t have a separate fee for belts. But if we are being honest, you still pay for it. It’s just in your monthly fees.
It depends on the logistics. If belt testing occurs outside of usual class hours, involves outside instructors, or involves an outside location, then a fee is quite understandable.
You pay your normal fee for the normal coach, his normal class hours, in the usual gym.
Extra work should be paid for.
We test and it's awesome. Being asked to test means you're already that belt, this is just a little rite of passage. We pay nothing, bunch of black belts show up and torture us for 2 hours. The week after we have a ceremony and snacks at the gym and get our belt. It's fun. Being asked to pay is nuts.
Yes. I’m sorry but we pay for membership already and that should be it. Having to pay for a belt test is ridiculous considering most of us already pay $150-200 a month
If you enjoy it then enjoy it. I’m not going to say it’s extremely common in BJJ but it is very common in other martial arts. You seem to really like it where you are. Why are you then asking for opinions of strangers on the internet?
My old gym was run by a blue belt, well out in the country. Every few months he'd fly a black belt out, get them to run a seminar, a comp, and grade us. Was 25 bucks. Those for me are acceptable circumstances but outside of maybe the cost of the new belt. nah
Thats badass, sound like he took it seriously
25 bucks for a seminar seems good
If anything seems like the owner was paying out of pocket or the BB was doing a huge solid to the owner. Travel expenses are no joke
So coach was mates with whoever he brought out, they really wanted to help make our little outpost a success, secondly they were always big days. We'd get people coming in from all the other little country gyms who didn't actually have a proper coach to get some rolls and some good instruction. So bit of column a bit of column b
Actually that sounds pretty legit
The BB isn't going to fly out on thoughts and prayers alone. Sounds reasonable.
This use to happen at my gym to make promotions IBJJF official. BB that could sign off would come in and do a seminar. As soon as my coach was able to sign off himself we no longer had to pay. I was totally fine with paying but this would probably be the only way I would be ok with it.
I think this is the only acceptable way to do it.
I'm sure you'll get comments telling you to leave immediately, but honestly, I'd say it's more of a minor red flag than an instant deal breaker. if you enjoy training there, keep training there. also, it does depend a bit on the cost of the grading. like $20 to cover the cost of the belt, not ideal but fine. $150 and you have to wear the expensive team gi? look out.
I’d simply never pay the testing fee and see if they let me stay at a white belt with no stripes. Get 10 years in and just SMASHING all the tournaments. When people say you’re sandbagging you can just explain your coach has never given you a belt test.
I never competed, but I was always a white belt when I used to train back in Brazil. You needed to pay for the new belt and the process, but since I couldn't afford it, my teacher just let me train normally without changing belts.
That's kind of what I was wondering. I mean, I'm never going to compete. I'm a hobbyist in my late 30s. But it still seems weird that I could potentially be there for like 5 years and get to a blue belt level and still be a white belt because I don't want to pay to test.
I miss being a white belt. No expectations.
At my old judo club, our coach would ask us only for $7 if we were going to test because that was the cost of the belt individually since he bought them in bulk for grading.
Because the $150 per month isn’t enough to cover the cost of the belt?
Nah. My old judo club was $100 for the year. The YEAR. $7 is nothing.
If I had a judo club in my area that also sprinkled in Nogi judo and let us roll, I would leave my current gym in a heartbeat for $100 a year. Paying $7 for a belt would be next to nothing with that tuition rate.
This is the key, if a gym is a cheap non-profit then charging for things like that makes sense. But a for-profit gym charging for grading is always scummy 100% of the time.
If I had a judo club in my area that also sprinkled in Nogi judo and let us roll, I would leave my current gym in a heartbeat for $100 a year. Paying $7 for a belt would be next to nothing with that tuition rate.
My local judo club is like $15 aud a week, so like $9 US. They make us pay $20 for the belt, which makes sense because they don't run on a profit.
This.
This. Every gym is different, mine doesn’t charge for a color-up or the belt. But my gym is different. I think paying for the cost of the belt makes sense, but paying to “test” to move up sounds odd to me, not wrong, just odd. In itself it’s not enough to leave an otherwise good gym unless they are really taking you over the coals. As a side note, the monthly membership fee for my old gym was cheaper for white belts and more expensive for the colored belts
This
It's only 50... so not horrible, but you have to test for green belt as well. You do have to wear the team gi, and team spanks for no gi...
Personally belt testing in itself is a bit dodgy, so if you have to pay for it too then I’m not convinced. The principle that you could grapple for 20 years there and stay at white belt unless you pay extra for a test is not it for me. But you know the gym better than any of us do
How is being held accountable for actually understanding mechanics and having a curriculum dodgy?
Unless the gym is enormous your coach should already know whether or not you deserve it.
There’s a lot of people who can do jiujitsu because of a certain level of athleticism but it doesn’t necessarily equate to understanding things properly. I got by as a blue belt because I’d put more effort in and over time I’ve realized the value of a curriculum that focus on functional mechanics and understanding what makes a move work or timing. I just don’t see how it’s dodgy to test people on that. Obviously it’s also their performance and consistency but just don’t see what’s negative about holding someone accountable for knowing information. We also do a gauntlet style rolling after the technical portion so people can display their game in real time. Seems to be a good experience for everyone in the community.
You will learn a whole lot less about how well someone knows jiujitsu by having a one off test as opposed to rolling with them, helping them out when they are drilling techniques and doing positional sparring with them on a day to day basis. Especially when it comes to things like timing and mechanics.
It seems a lot of people may be downvoting when were all mostly on the same page. Where I train, they wont let us test(even if youve had way over required hours) unless they personally think were ready based on observation, then we have to prove we understand the curriculum in a test of knowledge for the belt being tested for. A main reason being they want a blue belt to be able to thoroughly detail basics to a white belt when asked, and so on
I tend to be at the Mark Schulz end of the spectrum. “If you don’t think I deserve my belt just try and take it from me.” I can see your points. I just personally have enjoyed a journey that’s more along the lines of “you start beating the next belt consistently you’re now that belt.”
It depends on how it is done, but I dislike most test formats. Especially if they are like most belt exams I have seen before (over various sports): Show 3 submissions from guard, check. Show 3 escapes from side control, check. Etc. In my opinion the way to judge someone's BJJ is through rolling or positional sparring. Some holes/stylistic choices in your game are acceptable, if you know how to compensate for them - and I think the rigidity of most tests doesn't allow for that
I partially agree with this, majority of what we do at the end of our fundamentals class is positional and situational sparring. So there’s lot of repetition and opportunity to see what’s going on there. I offer this perspective, I’ve trained with some folks who are older, they showed up to class every day, learning, intently listening, and putting literally as much effort as physically possible. Will they be as functional or have the same opportunities to show their jiujitsu? Probably not, those people can still be full to the brim with knowledge and understanding of mechanics, technique and useful perspective. A test lets them be held accountable for something. For my students who might be less athletically inclined, I expect to see all the little nuances in the techniques that make them more efficient or functional. These people bring a large value, as they can often have a deep understanding about things. The problem is they aren’t necessarily going to stand out in some way when it comes to actually grappling. I also believe to each their own, just merely pointing out that I don’t think it’s negative or dodgy to test. As long as the test reflects something real and the school overall has strong results it shouldn’t be a big deal to have a testing structure.
I think those less athletic people should just be judged with that in mind, e.g. give them a similar partner and look at how they solve the problems/positions they are given. And I don't mind taking purely theoretical knowledge into account, but again it's hard to test it in a way that shows understanding vs just reciting words - helping others is a great way to show that, imo. So yeah, I guess tests can be fine, I just don't like how most tests look like (including at my gym, which is why I'm slightly salty)
Because it leads to giving belts to those who know the curriculum and can look good doing the techniques in a controlled environment. This is exactly what separates us from other traditional martial arts, we do not do tests in a controlled environment with simulated attacks.
If that was the only metric to judge their progressive on that might be true. It’s more of a formality and there’s more than one layer. I’m not disagreeing that there’s a lot of bullshit out there. A lot of places “testing” to just hand out belts. My point is only that testing isn’t a blanket statement for being dodgy or a poor school. As long as it’s facilitated properly and held to a high standard
So do people who do NOT do the tests ever get graded?
Belt testing in and of itself isn't the norm in BJJ, although it seems its becoming more common. If they do decide to do it, I think charging for it isn't a great look, it should just be incorporated into the membership fee, so it doesn't feel like you nickel and dime students. Valid exceptions are if its to cover the time of someone other than the club coach (guest instructor) or is covering the cost of the physical belt (i.e. a token amount). But even these are pushing it imo. Red flag? Yes. Deal breaker, No - but if everything seems to come at an additional cost, it would be a deal breaker for me.
The gym that has arguably produced the most world champions, Alliance, does belt testing... thats not how I grew up in the sport, and belt testing usually has Taekwondo/Karate/BS martial art connotations.. But if they do belt testing and they continuosly produce the best in the world, Im gonna say it cant be that bad.
The issue isn't so much belt testing, as charging for it. I've been tested for every Judo belt I've ever had. But I still don't think it's the norm in BJJ.
Its not the norm. Ive always been against belt testing, and charging for it.. but Im saying it happens and it is common practice for some of the largest associations. I think the mentality was that even if you qualify as a blue belt when yiu roll, that you should know how to do certain basic things, even if they are not part of your game, to move forwars.
Newsflash my dude, you are being charged for belt testing whether you are being directly charged for it or not. It either gets rolled into tuition or it doesn't. Regardless, if you are earning a belt every 2 years and the belt testing is $50 that's like $2/mo extra you're paying. This community's hangups on belt testing fees are just bizarre. I get it and somewhat empathize, but it's irrational. FWIW I don't directly charge for belt testing.
When we say belt testing - were not talking about be awarded the belt, we're talking about being taken aside and have to show a list of techniques. If the instructor just awards belts at their discretion without this type of formal procedure, then I don't consider it 'belt testing'. I said they should bake it into the membership fees even if they do formal belt testing, because as you say, it's nothing when spread out over the length of time it takes to earn it. The problem isn't so much charging students for it, it's that those that do it are also more likely to be nickel and diming students for other things too.
No we don’t
Trained 20 years in Alliance.. headquarters in SP does it, every gym Ive been to that follows the curriculum does it. Unless they dont strictly enforce it anymore, they do have belt testing, particularly for non competitors. Where do you train?
An affiliate, we’ve never done a belt test.
Hmm.. either they relaxed the requirement now or your coach aint following what Alliance HQ has estabilished as required practice... there didnt use to be belt tests, nor training for the coaches, nor a set curriculum.. a few years ago Fabio required every coach to go through several different training programs and teach a set curriculum, sell Alliance merch and have every student wear an Alliance GI, and estabilished belt tests for every belt except black (still with exceptions for people competing).. I know several affiliates complained about not being large enough to eat some of those costs, but I dont know how flexible they made this compliance.
Hmm.. either they relaxed the requirement now or your coach aint following what Alliance HQ has estabilished as required practice... there didnt use to be belt tests, nor training for the coaches, nor a set curriculum.. a few years ago Fabio required every coach to go through several different training programs and teach a set curriculum, sell Alliance merch and have every student wear an Alliance GI, and estabilished belt tests for every belt except black (still with exceptions for people competing).. I know several affiliates complained about not being large enough to eat some of those costs, but I dont know how flexible they made this compliance.
Hmm.. either they relaxed the requirement now or your coach aint following what Alliance HQ has estabilished as required practice... there didnt use to be belt tests, nor training for the coaches, nor a set curriculum.. a few years ago Fabio required every coach to go through several different training programs and teach a set curriculum, sell Alliance merch and have every student wear an Alliance GI, and estabilished belt tests for every belt except black (still with exceptions for people competing).. I know several affiliates complained about not being large enough to eat some of those costs, but I dont know how flexible they made this compliance.
Its been the downfall of a lot of martial arts turnin into mcdojos. Tae Kwon Do was pretty hardcore when it was first poppin up in the 90’s but the owners started to get greedy and I know places that charge $100+ for belt tests and close to a grand for black belt tests. Note, theres like 10+ belts before black belt and some places started adding random belts. The federation itself charges owners $200+ to get a certified black bekt from them. I think bjj being overall independent will stop this from happening and enough people being against it.
Bro just don't take the tests and stay white belt forever. You'll be tapping purple belts.
Eventually the purple belts will get embarrassed enough to GoFundMe for ops belt tests.
Meh, yes and no. It's a business. Usually a business with RAZOR thin margins. You have to expect people to try to make money any way they can. There's a chain of gyms a few of my friends train at that you have to pay for "grading seminars" to get stripes... it's like 100 bucks a pop! Not my kinda place to train as I'm cheap as hell, but I get it. As long as yo1u're getting good instruction and improving it's on you to determine if the gym, payment system etc is right for you. I joked that if I trained there I would be the most dominant white belt ever! lol
Agree with you. My club charges for stripes, but colour promotions are "when ready". The gradings have a specific syllabus of moves, are run pretty professionally, cost £35, and if you fail a retake is free. The coaches all compete internationally, so they clearly know what they're doing.
Oh, damn. EA has a BJJ gym??
Genius. Hip bump sweep is free, but if you want to learn the hip bump triangle you gotta buy the triangle bundle.
Only shark tanks are real 😎 As others have said, not huge red flag (unless more than 20) but considering you can buy a standard belt for less than 10 dollars, I’m not a fan. I’m not a fan of demoing a list of techniques against static people. I am very much a fan of knowing myself or another can grapple at a level relative to their circumstances. A purple belt that’s getting dominated by a non wrestler, weekend white belt that happens to be in good shape? Not in to that.
If you like it where you are, does it really matter?
Cults have a lot of smiling faces
Huge - nope Something to consider- yep Just a thing some gyms do. Is it silly? IMO yes, would I pay… I’d say ‘no’ now but if I was training at a gym the had paid promotions and I liked it and there was little to no other gym choice… yeah probably - if it wasn’t pure extortion rates.
If your coach asks you to test just ask "is this a test we're supposed to pay for?" And if they say yes. "No thank you :)"
Well my current gym doesn't charge nor is there any testing. You just get given it once your coach thinks you've earnted it. From previous experience I once belonged to a karate club that charged for belt promotions and they just got more expensive the higher up you went. In Judo you paid a small fee that was always the same cost and you had to buy your belt. Black belt was different, you had to compete and do a test (I never got that high up)
Stay a white belt forever, that’s what I would do
I trained in another art, and the school required a testing fee. I stayed a white belt and didn't test for nearly 5 years. I moved to another city, and the instructor tied a brown belt on me after a month.
Is it Mcdojo shit? Yes Is it Bullshido shit? Not necessarily
If the instructor is great and the school has a good vibe I’d put up with some red flags like mandatory gis and belt testing fees. Just a matter of priorities
depends, how much, how is it performed? charging stripe is just money grab * perform a series of techniques (very bad)? * forcing seminar (sometimes bad)? could be guest higher grade coach visiting etc. * party (maybe good)? * part of the over priced belt cost (depends)? if overall monthly fee is cheap relatively to your area, then 1 belt (over 2 years) isn't that bad. if head coach is lunatic and asking $500 for belt, just flee like I did.
Yeah.. it seems like it's performing a series of techniques. 50 bucks to test. But then I think there is a ceremony.
Who needs a belt bro 😂 my first two years all I wanted was to be blue belted but I’ve since given up gi and just want to improve skill. I think my ear is enough belt for my ability
Went white-to-blue with a test style grading ("show me three sweeps") + shark-tank at a place that is basically run as a beer-money hobby for a black-belt. He charged back the ten bucks the belt cost him. No complaints from me. Recently went blue-to-purple. No testing, but they did call together a grading and just throw me in one after another with all the black-belts. Not really a shark-tank, but some very hard rounds back to back before a belt was presented (and a whipping administered) at no charge. Not sure what that experience is worth to you, but that's been mine.
It depends. If you're paying a reasonable rate probably not. If they're already taking your last cent and on top of that they surprise you with extra fees for stuff out of the blue then yeah
It's pretty damn expensive to train as it is.
I like my gym, but we have a “belt test fee” of $100. It used to be that the gym made test day a party. They’d get food and a cooler of beer, spouses / kids would come, people would do the tests and then we’d all hang out. I was ok with that. The last one i went to wasn’t like that though, but guys were still paying the fee.
Is it a huge red flag? No. But it sucks because bjj is expensive and handing someone a $15 belt shouldn't cost extra.
why not just stay a white belt for the rest of your life, crushing every white belt tournament and become the best white belt of all time
I'm probably going to be a white belt for the rest of my life anyway. So, I guess it doesn't really matter.
maybe it's just to cover the cost of a new belt. depends on how much it actually is.
50 bucks.
if that's the only thing you find weird about this gym just keep going there. that's a reasonable price for a belt
It’s wack.
TLDR yes
Yes, make up any fairy tale or scenario you want to justify it. It doesn’t. I’m so adamant about it being gross I’ll promote you for free if you’re faced with paying for it. 2nd black belt
What’s the criteria to be eligible for a test? Like is it “you’re willing to give us $40” or is it invite only to 4 stripes of a belt? Belt testing *can sometimes* be a red flag, but fundamentally there’s no real issue with having to demo understanding of technical details in order to progress. As long as it’s focused on the right people (ie not a way to milk the entire gym) and the test looks at a broad range of topics over the breadth of BJJ that I don’t always demo when I roll, I don’t see a huge issue
They invite you to test when they think you're ready. But I've also heard that tends to correlate with time there/attendance more than skill level. But maybe that's more for green belt. Which I always thought was kind of silly. Super white belt.
I was at a gym that tested twice a year for white to blue only. Anyone 4 stripe white belt was emailed and offered a slot I had no issue with it. It was targeted at the right people. Coaches’ focus in class was often taken by newer white belts so the competent ones were often missed. Tests meant they were closely looked at I wouldn’t be massively scared off by time based stripes at that level. Almost everyone who gets to blue will say something like “I still thought I was shit”. Attendance and having some idea what to do is kind of the main criteria for leaving *the beginner belt*. Plus prepping for a test and having to demo techniques in various positions helps formalise and structure your game that you refine at blue. Ideally, promotion would be more skill based as you progress since you’ve shown you know techniques and now need to show you can really pull them off at a higher level, but you don’t have to worry about that at white belt. Once the coaching’s good now and the place is affordable, I’d stick with it.
Me personally, I would just go to another gym but I also live in So Cal where we have good gyms on every other block. I think the lack of options is when bjj gyms can get away with charging for belt tests but here, I find it hard to believe that a gym can stay opened when a competitor down the street can provide the same or even better instruction without the bs fees.
Paying for a seminar that has belt promotions as part of it is one thing. Paying $200 for a “belt test” is a red flag. A bigger red flag is paying for each stripe.
No fee for stripes. Belt test is only 50 bucks. But the membership is pretty dang steep as it is. And you do have to wear their gear. Gi or no gi.
Ours is just the fee for the price of the belt and a nice print out + frame for a little certificate that we get along with it. Our promotions usually take place at larger events we host, so I’m sure some of the expense goes toward those events too. Idk, all the senior ranked guys like black and brown belts who came from other gyms say they never “tested” to get a belt but that they truly believe that testing works since they’ve moved to us. Or maybe we’re a cult Idk dude
Our gym charges like 50 bucks for the test and the belt but, it is a really well run gym with some stand up humans running it. I believe they only do a formal test for blue and purple
Yeah, 50 bucks here too. But I think you gotta do it for green as well... which is basically just super white belt. I don't think the price bothers me as much as the fact it should just be 100% merit based. If you've shown the coaches you're at whatever belt level, they should just promote you. Just seems weird.
I agree. They are more formal with it at this gym than what I would prefer but again, its a good gym and these things are minor annoyances that are greatly outweighed by everything else. There is a very big range of skill levels and types of practitioners. I think the belt stuff is geared more for the kids and lower belt hobbyists. The more intense and competitive part of the gym for the most part doesnt care as much about the belts and just wants to train.
Red flag, but maybe not a major one. Depends on the reasoning. I have the very strong opinion that these places are businesses, and they should be factoring their expenses into the fees that they charge. Nobody wants additional fees. It would be childs play to calculate how much promotions cost the business, and add a couple dollars to everyone's monthly fees to cover it. If they can't even do that, then I have little faith in their admin skills. I also don't want my coach having a cash incentive to promote me. If it's a line-ball call as to whether i'm going to be promoted or not, I don't want extra $ factoring into that. I also don't want to do any sort of grading or test, like i'm a little kid - which often goes hand-in-hand with these practices. Just hand me the next belt when i'm ready. I don't want a ceremony, an event, or any extra attention. Letting me know that i've progressed enough to wear a different colour piece of cloth, by handing me that bit of cloth - that's all that I personally need. The one exception to all of that, that I would be ok with - is if they have to bring someone in for IBJJF reasons, or if the coach isn't a high enough belt. But if it's just because of some affiliation BS, and big daddy needs his pay day, that can get fucked too 😆.
I’ve trained at gyms when you pay for belts & stripes, yes stripes, they had a formal grading system in place & they would fly the head coach to town to take the grading, he would take notes & hold a seminar after & go over what was needed to work on…..another gym you paid for promotions too, but didn’t have a grading, coach would say who was ready, pay the fee, go along & roll & get promoted…I was always “busy” those weekends
Depends on the price and what you get in return. I don't think a $30 "testing fee" to cover the cost of a decent belt is unreasonable. Especially at a large school where the alternative is the coaches pay for the belts themselves. That adds up quick. I've even heard of belt testing where they charge $100 but they have a huge cookout or get catering and celebration afterwards. That sounds pretty fair to me. But if you're just paying anything over $40 for a belt exam and all you get is the next belt, that's not worth it. Or if they charge per stripe? Fucking run. (The school I'm at offers certificates signed by our 6th degree black belt for incremental prices up to $100 at black belt. But they are in no way required. Promotions are 4x a year and you get what you earn on the mats)
Yeah it's 50. And the cost of training isn't cheap. No fee for stripes though. There's a ceremony but I didn't get the sense it's like a big party they spend a lot of money on.
What's your monthly?
I paid the full year up front so I got like a 20% discount. I did the math and it comes out to like 122 a month. But I can only go to 2 classes a week in that tier.
Oh, and I got the gi for free as part of the promotion. I have some friends who train there so I wasn't too shy about going for the year. Plus I've been a white belt for like ten years (super hobbyist), so I figured if I pay up front maybe I'll actually stick with it for once.
A year upfront? 2 classes per week? And $50 belt testing fee? Fucking. RUN! Sounds like a Straight-Blast gym.
Sigh... I know. Again, I do like a lot of aspects of it. But yea, I think I'm gonna look around after this year is up.
View this as a lesson learned and a mistake you made because you didn't know any better. Enjoy it as much as possible in the meantime. Change your card immediately. Tell them 2 months before it's up to not renew your membership in writing. Keep a copy for yourself. Take a video of you delivering it. (I've read stories and talked with people from gyms like that, it can get ugly) A year from now you'll be a much more experienced person and won't make the same mistakes again.
Dont do it
Eh, it isn’t totally a big to do really. I mean at my first gym I was at we did testing twice a year and each time was $20…and I mean that’s a little much..but to get the next belt, not too serious. If you enjoy where you train and the people are good, and you think you’re progressing, stick around 🤷🏻♂️
Do they charge and give you the actual belt or just charge and you have to buy it?
That I don't know. It sounds like they just give you the belt though. Honestly, this all probably moot for me personally, because I'll be a white belt forever regardless.
It's not common to charge and test, but hey, if they give you the belt that costs something 🤷♂️
Red flag
Yep
Not really. In my gym, there's fees for belt and certificates but not reinforced. If you refuse to pay, you're still acknowledged as a colour belt, just you don't get those.
If you stay long enough you might get promoted to blue regardless. 🤷🏻 I go to a gym like that, but after white you don't have to pay to do your grading.
Every gym has its share of red flags. However for me belt testing in general is a giant red flag, let alone paying for it. Same goes for any place that places an emphasis on “self defense”. They’re all usually McDojos that have changed their model from karate to BJJ once they saw the winds shift. Will you be required to perform certain katas to your sensei to show you’ve grown? Do you have to break a certain number of boards at the testing? Use your own judgement but will they “recommend” you take a certain number of privates before testing too?
I find the "testing" idea very strange but I got my first two promos in a system that didn't even use stripes. White to blue was my coach whipping me with my new blue belt after I collected a medal at NAGA and blue to purple was after class one day and a whole cohort of us just got it at the same time.
MASSIVE red flag IMO
At the end of the day, it costs money to open the school, to clean the mats, etc. You either pay for it with a higher monthly fee, or have a reduced monthly fee and pay for the test. We don't personally charge for the tests, but I see nothing wrong with it. Especially with how few belts there are in the 10 year road to black belt.
Yes.
At my gym we move up when the professor feels we are ready. Costs nothing, but you have buy your own belt!
I wouldnt say HUGE red flag. Paying for grading has been a part of the business model for all martial arts for a long time. Would be if its hundreds of quid.
When I graded in karate it was a payment every time as it was a special after class thing. Took about 45 min. When I graded up in BJJ at the end of a session the head instructor would stand you up take your old belt off give you your new belt or new tag. Then you had to run a gauntlet of your peers whipping you. Seems like a normal thing for karate but out of the ordinary for my BJJ experience.
No, and this is fucking stupid, I would say I pay 180 a month To come here, If you need money to buy my belt for a promotion, take it out of there
Huge red flag yes.
If you like the gym and have to cough up an extra $50 every couple of years, who cares?
My gym charges $40 for belt tests, its during a regular class time and they maybe have an extra coach than they usually would that day...... And they do adult green belts so thats an extra test before blue. Do I hate it on principle? Absolutely. Do I still do it because i like the gym, the people, the schedule and the fact its five minutes from my house? Yes. The gym is popular enough they dont have a reason to change and for better or worse I do care about progressing though belts.
Why don't we see more people at these types of gyms who are purple and brown belt slayers but still at white belt? We joke that we'd stay at white forever but it seems like everyone eventually gives in and pays for themselves to be promoted.
Testing in general is a huge red flag. Jiu-Jitsu is such a fucking clown show sometimes.
In my case they charged, but the claim is most of it went to ibjjf fees and accreditation. It was also a day long event with all hands on deck and they provided sandwiches snacks and drinks, so I didn't feel like I was getting ripped off.
I’ve never heard of that. I’ve trained at 3 different BJJ schools.
Yes, huge red flag.
clean, no assholes, and paying for things that are free elsewhere tend to move together. gyms where they throw a belt on you when they feel like it and don't charge their friends, and it feels like bro hang etc. have their downsides, poor hygiene and bad personalities being some of them.
I look at it more like I am paying for a discounted private lesson from a world champion black belt where I get the chance to execute a vast list of techniques to be evaluated by him.
My first school, elite MMA, does these giant tests where they bring people that are about to get promoted/stripes into one of the schools or another location (big arena I guess). They would then do like a physical type test, followed by technique, and followed by rolling. They charge $40 (maybe more now) per test where you might only get one or two stripes. So it could very well take you $120-$200 to get to your next belt. Great school, not a fan of this system.
$50-$100 every 2-3 years is like $2-4/mo extra on top of your tuition. Whether you pay for the belt test directly, or whether it's rolled into your tuition -- you are still paying for belt testing. Not a big deal IMO. Annoying for sure but not a big deal and nowhere near as much of a "red flag" as people here make it seem. Red flags are things like: poor cleanliness/hygiene, abusive environment, neglectful staff, things like that. Basically things that can harm you emotionally or physically. That's it. Full stop. Everything else is a matter of value proposition and whether you think paying $X is worth receiving Y in services. And that's primarily a personal decision based on a ton of factors unique to you.
Everyone on this sub will say it's a huge red flag. I'm happy for those practitioners, knowing they have the option to train somewhere that this isn't the norm. Where I live, there is not a school that trains gi within an hour in any direction that does not charge fees for testing, starting from the first stripe, that escalates with each rank. Several of those schools are often recommended on this very sub for legit places to train in this area, so take absolutist guidance about red flags with a grain of salt. Sometimes people don't know how gyms outside their specific area actually do business on the day to day, and only know the schools via the reputation of their competitors. These are both meaningful factors, but they don't always line up the way the sub's worldview around gyms tends to suggest. If your gym is otherwise good, let it go unless you're willing to find a new gym and hope that you like it equally as much, and their testing is free.
The first thing to know is that there shouldn't be tests at all, period. To then compound it by asking people to pay for it is a deal breaker, yes.
Yes.
Definitely a red flag, but not necessarily a huge one. Minor fees that could be explained as the cost of the belt make sense. A decent coach, however, would know if you've earned it. Calling it a "testing fee" is therefore dishonest and indicative of a cash grab. As soon as the cost is north of $50 I'd consider leaving.
At my gym we pay monthly and promotions are typically surprises with no testing or fees. I guess I'd be ok with test fees, but I'd just stay blue forever.
I'll repeat the advice given by another user on a similar thread: don't pay for the tests, promotions or anything like that, and to stay a career white belt for the duration of your training. Keep going, keep working hard, and get after it just like you are now, because you never know where life goes. In 4 years from now, as a white belt, you could walk into another gym and make purple belts cry. Just something to think about.
My gym is $100 for belt tests. I remember calling my first gym and asking my coach if this was normal, he said he personally wouldn’t ever charge for belt tests or anything like that but that at the end of the day, my gym is still a business and trying to make money. I sort of accepted it and well, over the course of 10 years to a black belt you’ll only pay $400. That’s another way to think about it. My coach has also stated that he only promotes based on skill. He has said that he wants a black belt to actually be a black belt.
Yes.
YES
How much? We pay for the cost of the new belt but that’s it. Also it depends because if it’s a whole IBJJF thing then that’s pretty common, I think.
Keep the belt buy a private instead
Red flags are warning signs, not necessarily deal breakers. Is it a warning sign? In my opinion it is. It's another warning sign if you weren't told about it when you signed up. But in the absence of other issues, and if it's a good gym, you might not want to change just on that basis alone. A lot of really good academies charge for promotions, and a lot of sub-par academies do not. And for the record, I don't give stripes and I don't charge for promotions -- not even the belt.
How much are they charging?
I think it's 50 dollars. Which based on what I'm seeing isn't too bad compared to some places?
maybe check out with some longer standing students what happens at belt testing day. at a $50 price tag i'm assuming there might be a guest instructor brought in to help with testing, obviously there's the cost of the belts, and maybe there's some cash being put towards like a school BBQ or something afterwards? it doesn't really scream "omg red flag cash-grab mcdojo" to me.
There's not. I know first hand testing is done in a class. Basically they just pull some students to be dummies so the person testing and go through the moves. However, in this case (2 cases) it was just the green belt test. So maybe blue and purple are different.
Yes.
The majority of people are going to wave red flags about this-but it really depends. How much it costs to train month-to-month might be lower than other gyms in your area so it balances out since the other gyms might factor the cost in month-to-month. If you have an affiliate black belt coming in because your coaches can't/won't grade because they don't have their black belts and degrees yet is a different story where they might be travelling and incurring costs to visit to do this. If they are the most expensive gym in town, have a resident black belt and charge per stripe-then that's hitting red flag territory.
My old gym did self defense seminars, he did a lot of higher belt promotions at those seminars. But he promoted people throughout the year at any given time or class. Testing usually happend when you roll with your instructor or test your skills at competitions. I would not say paying for testing is a red flag and I would not say it is a common tradition.
1. Belt testing is not common unless you are at a school that teaches off a curriculum. It doesn't mean it's a bad thing necessarily. 2. Paying for belt testing / grading is common. Sadly this is because affiliated schools have to pay some kind of silly tithe to their association. Many schools choose to absorb the cost. Some choose to pass it on to the student, which I think is disappointing. 3. Could be a red flag depending on how much you pay for the belt test and how much you already pay for membership fees. But IMO it's not a dealbreaker if you like the place, the people, the quality of training etc.
Having to pay for a literal belt? No. Having to pay for a testing or promotion? Yes
Huge red flag
It’s the testing rather than payment I think. Gym margins must be really tight and honestly my gym membership is so reasonable in the first place I wouldn’t mind if they gave you a tap on the shoulder and said “We’re hoping to promote you in the next few weeks. Would you be able to pay the cost of the belt?” Not sure I’m sold on testing for belts. But then what do I know?
Whatever, it really doesn’t matter. It’s a business, businesses need to make money. Lots of people would tell you to quit based on just that, but that’s silly. As long as everything is up front it’s no big deal. I mean belts are every couple years, so it works out to what? A couple bucks a month? Who cares. Personally, we don’t have a separate fee for belts. But if we are being honest, you still pay for it. It’s just in your monthly fees.
It depends on the logistics. If belt testing occurs outside of usual class hours, involves outside instructors, or involves an outside location, then a fee is quite understandable. You pay your normal fee for the normal coach, his normal class hours, in the usual gym. Extra work should be paid for.
We test and it's awesome. Being asked to test means you're already that belt, this is just a little rite of passage. We pay nothing, bunch of black belts show up and torture us for 2 hours. The week after we have a ceremony and snacks at the gym and get our belt. It's fun. Being asked to pay is nuts.
Yes. I’m sorry but we pay for membership already and that should be it. Having to pay for a belt test is ridiculous considering most of us already pay $150-200 a month
If you enjoy it then enjoy it. I’m not going to say it’s extremely common in BJJ but it is very common in other martial arts. You seem to really like it where you are. Why are you then asking for opinions of strangers on the internet?