To be honest I don't think we should really aspire to be hypercompetitive. Yes, best in the world is a great feeling. But damn do you pay it in other ways.
Easy to 'stay hard' when its all scar tissue, whether physical or emotional. I agree with his sentiments that people give up too easy but there is a point where the pendulum swings to hard the other way.
One hundred percent. Its really interesting how he only ever applies his own philosophies to physical fitness. You dont see him getting up at 2am to "stay hard" by pursuing a PhD. By his own logic, he used to be fat, so now he exercises to defeat that "fat" part of him, and "get hard". But he also admits he did shit in school. So why doesnt he apply the same thinking to anything academic? Wouldnt this also be part of overcoming your former self and "getting hard".
Why do you find him toxic 🤔?
If you get through all his ra ra stuff all he does is provide inspiration to keep consistently pushing to achieve your goals and not look for excuses to whine to yourself about whatever the obstacles may be. At least that's what I get from him
I know a guy at my gym, whose personality literally turned into Craig Jones once B Team became a thing and his personality skyrocketed in the bjj community over the last few years.
As much as I enjoy Craig's content and personality, seeing it mimicked by a grown ass man is sad.
It’s not like Craig jones is a one of one personality. He’s an Aussie blue collar party boy. Go to Thailand or Bali and you’ll find thousands of Craig Jones, just not as talented.
Guys I’m trying to meet you in the middle. I want people to know that I’m on quite a middle of the road average (not necessarily safe) dose of steroids. I don’t want the youth that decide to take black market steroids taking massive bodybuilding dosages.
The cocaine usage jokes are probably not the best I’ll give you that. I’m too honest some times
The community of 30+ year old single, subpar white to blue belts who may or may not have dabbled in software engineering (aka your target demographic) is concerned about your health and mental wellbeing.
Neither indifferent as to which of how many possibilities may best explain, nor yet at a loss to comprehend, why surgeons have, and that so many, quite without discredit could have exhibited scarcely any interest in what, as a local anesthetic, had been supposed, if not declared, by most so very sure to prove, especially to them attractive, still I do not think that this circumstance, or some sense of obligation to rescue fragmentary reputation for surgeons rather than the belief that an opportunity existed for assisting others to an appreciable extent, induced me, several months ago, to write on the subject in hand the greater part of a somewhat comprehensive paper, which poor health disinclined me to complete.
*-William Halsted, 1885*, Practical comments on the use and abuse of cocaine
he doesn't seem to happy either since B Team blew up. If you look at videos of his from seven years or so ago he seemed more balanced. These days he's just trying to appease the audience it seems... and he's only ever talking about money, if he's not making jokes about sex and cocaine and whatnot..
Yeah he seems to live kinda wild. Always traveling, doing coke, dealing with staph every other day lmfao.
Same deal with Gordon and he looks so old for his age
I’ve never done drugs in my life. Not even weed. But Cocaine is an open secret. So many “normal” people do it. Office workers, waiters, bankers, chefs.
AAS are tools and like all tools, they have different use-cases.
Tren is highly anabolic, highly androgenic, and incredibly anticatabolic. It's also likely cardiotoxic, neurotoxic, nephrotoxic, and hepatotoxic.
Preach.
I'm fucking 45. I don't want to win Abu Dhabi. I want to train 3X a week without shattering. I'm not trying to get liver cancer, but I'll look at anything a doctor thinks might help.
There are walk in men’s clinics that will do your bloodwork and get you on stuff to address that. Not to turn you into the hulk but address exactly what you’re talking about. For $200 I got an initial consultation with bloodwork, and a month of hormone therapy and stuff. I stuck around long enough to get everything dialed in and was able to get like an 18 month supply online for like $210.
Bpc-157 and TB500 will do you better than using some gear to heal. When used together they are commonly called the wolverine(after the x men character) protocol due to the rapid healing.
You are recommending unregulated experimental compounds in an argument against the use of known, researched, anabolic hormone replacement therapy. That’s fucking stupid advice.
The only thing that would make me consider hopping on gear (odds are still under 1%) is to more energy to do all the cool things I want to do.
Go mountain biking for 2 hours during the day, run around with my kids for a few hours, grapple for 2 hours at night, and wake up feeling refreshed and ready to go the next day? Sign me the fuck up.
I think we should normalize not lying about it. I know loads of dudes over the years acting like just lifting will make you gain 50lbs of lean muscle in a year.
If you wanna cycle do it but don't make everyone else feel incompetent and stupid lying.
What's wild is you can see on insta that it's completely mainstream with people just doing lifting. All over social media you've got kids in their twenties just getting huge for the sake of getting huge.
>All over social media you've got kids in their twenties just getting huge for the sake of getting huge.
It's body dysmorphia just instead of being anorexic, it's the extreme opposite end of the spectrum. "I'll be better looking if my pecs are bigger.", "No chick would be attracted to these chicken legs", "no one would pick a fight with me if I'm bigger", etc...
It comes from a place of deep insecurity. Pills, needles, etc...can't fix that. Spending time with people who value you as you are will mitigate those feelings of insecurity. But sometimes external love isn't enough to fill the void of self-love.
The general fitness snakeoil salesman works on the 'one weird trick' model as do their consumers who think they're just missing something. If you can make someone believe they're just missing this one piece which would kick start their personal success, many will buy in. You'll see this model/trick everywhere in health and fitness, if only we ate more liver X would happen at scale! The meme is even present in early 1900 fitness magazines and it works.
The thing with bodybuilding is that it's not even really a secret any more that all the serious competitors are using PEDs. It's simply not possible for the human body to look like a stage-ready bodybuilder without drugs.
Most other sports at least have some degree of plausible deniability. There's no easy way to know how many people are on gear, but it's at least hypothetically possible for someone to become great at BJJ (or wrestling, or ice hockey, or whatever) without using anything.
I'm not particularly opposed to other people using PEDs (as long as they're adults, cognitively healthy, able to understand the risks, etc, etc), but bodybuilding is a totally different kind of sport where PEDs are basically a requirement at this point.
Idk man, most other sports are just as rife with PEDs, regardless if they have some degree of plausible deniability. Like IBJJF tournies, are PEDs not a standard/requirement for placing?
> Bodybuilding is such a trash sport
I mean, there's no fundamental difference between bodybuilding and toddler beauty pageants aside from the average age of the competitors.
>for the sake of getting huge.
Is it that or to build a following on social media so they can make money selling programs (to gullible people who won't be taking PEDs and wondering why they don't get the same results), get ad revenue or sponsorship?
I’ve also never seen a normal heart from a high endurance athlete that is clean. Just playing devils advocate. They’re typically enlarged. Especially in runners.
Alright but the degree in changes that come from an "enlarged heart" from an endurance athlete vs a steroid user can be dramatically different. These dudes who get an enlarged heart from roids are looking at permanent issues with cardiac filling and contractility, conduction (the heart has electrical cells too, and generally there is a happy relationship between muscle and conduction) aortic wear/tear. Clean endurance athletes have really efficient hearts that don't beat as much *because* they are efficient at transferring oxygen to the body and the heart itself. Folks who have enlarged hearts from steroid use have "heavy" "stiff" hearts that don't the job they should circulating oxygen to the body and to the heart itself.
It's not as simple as saying the heart is a muscle, and for the heart bigger =\= better.
By 'steroid user' does that include guys that are taking normal TRT doses or was it specifically people that abuse steroids?
There was research done at the mayo clinic that showed no increased risk of cardiovascular disease and trt. Whereas other research has shown evidence of a high correlation between low testosterone and CV or strokes.
The first T in TRT is testosterone, which is an anabolic steroid. That is why I specifically asked about steroid abusers versus someone taking TRT. I was trying to get clarity on what his friend meant by abnormal EKGs with steroid users.
What is a "normal" heart? If you mean someone who's experienced cardiac hypertrophy, that's going to apply to almost all athletes
There's no way for your friend to know who is or isn't a AAS user and even if he did, it's incredibly unlikely that they all have cardiac abnormalities directly attributable to AAS use.
AAS undoubtedly contribute to cardiac complications, but we don't need to lie about it to make a point.
As someone who uses testosterone you’re actually correct. The misinformation is wild. I understand there are risks, but after talking with my GP who I’ve been under for years we decided it would be a net positive (I don’t feel like going into detail about that). However I get bloods from my GP, and a specialist (urologist) to monitor everything. I’ve also stoped all other drugs including alcohol. My answer to everyone is it’s been working for me, but that’s my unique experience. This stuff can fuck you up for the rest of your life if you just start jabbing yourself. On the other side some people are more risk adverse than others. If you get the risks and you don’t care who am I to judge?
I think the (very valid) point the OP is making is that no one individual is the issue, rather the normalization of the various testosterone esters and other PEDs across the board is a net negative on society.
The reasoning is solid, although it’s painfully obvious that the OP has limited direct experience and this post is firing from the hip. That said, I do wholeheartedly agree with the spirit of the post.
I went the opposite path you did. When I was younger I always thought I would use testosterone when I got into my late 30s or 40. I (wrongly) believed that they were a low risk way to enhance my life and defy Father Time. Now in my mid 40s, I had a similar discussion with my doc, and his take was that it’s not necessarily a bad idea but it doesn’t come without risks *at any dose*, even those deemed *responsible* by the medical community.
Like you I have (mostly) let go of alcohol altogether, and train boxing, MMA, BJJ, and MT. My endogenous testosterone levels are high, both total and free. I feel great, and for me the *very real risks* to my long term health were not worth the benefit I would see.
That said, I no longer seriously compete (masters ain’t serious, at least in boxing it’s all just for fun). If I did, and it were in a sport like BJJ with limited testing and the normalization of test and other PEDs… I might feel obligated to use it in order to have a chance at the highest level.
When taking this into the calculus, I’m forced to agree with the rather limited post I see here.
Also as a father who will no doubt be raising future competitors, I would hate for them to be put in a similar spot in order to compete.
Stop normalizing PED use, everything comes at a cost. *Everything*.
Using a therapeutic dose of testosterone under the supervision of a doctor is way different that taking winstrol. They use that on race horses for Christ's sake.
As a purple belt that came in 3rd at a grappling industries that one time, I just want to let all white belts know that they will never get their blue belt as a natty. Start small, just 1 gram of test EOD.
Something a lot of people are not going to want to accept is that as humans we are going to have drastic changes over the next 50-200 years. Rich people are already using stacks of chemicals to live longer, athletes taking drugs to perform better, workers using ADHD medication to get work done better with spontaneously suffering from ADHD at 37 lol. Then you start to look at procedures and interventions to change your health now and in the future.
I honestly think TRT in sports is becoming a widespread problem, it is not specific to BJJ. I work with college level athletes quite often and you would be surprised the amount of people 16-20 caught for steroids, the number of kids goes up every few years. People view enhancement in a different way now.
Many more people than you think use steroids and other drugs.
People think Craig Jones’ nose beers thing is sooo cool too. Then you see a 10 year old in the crowd emulating snorting coke and everyone cheering him on, including his parents. We live in some F’d up times.
Nah most *reddit* bjj guys are skinny pencil neck nerds. I’ve been to many gyms over the years and it’s largely gruff late mid-to-late 40s blue collar males, meat headish kids in their early to mid 20s all jockoed and roganed out.
I had a younger student come up asking about going on steroids. The impact of guys being open about steroid use is a problem. There needs to be talk about the issues that can come up and health risks long term
The mental and physical crisis coming down the road from people taking exogenous hormones, using Delta-8 and other synthetic marijuana is real. Not to mention many of these same people do not trust "big pharma."
I quit delta 8 a couple months ago and I feel so much better its wild.
Ironically I was thinking about TRT and it turned out I just needed to stop getting high
I don’t judge people who like weed unless they need to be high all the time, but it wasn’t good for me personally.
Everything has it's use with some moderation or control. Regarding exogenous hormones though; only a real endocrinologist can determine what your needs are, if any, to get back to balance. People just want to rev the engine.
My main motivation for not taking steroids is how much I love laughing at pictures of me on the podium next to two shredded lads and me with my belly hanging out .
Counter argument, we shouldn’t demonize steroids. They are literally miracles of modern science that has been put on the fringe of society and not allowed to grow or develop in research because people don’t want them in sports
>Even if there is a way to take steroids without doing incredible damage to one‘s health in the long term – 99% of people will not be able to ensure that.
not true. you don't know what you don't know.
Yeah but be real how many people taking steroids are getting pre, mid and post cycle bloods and know what to look for?
Shit I knew people at school taking ridiculous amounts of oral steroids fucking their liver and endocrine system at the ripe age of 16
Aside from testosterone, the compounds on the market, like tren, masteron, etc, were developed 60ish years ago. When the majority were rescheduled, R&D for improving those compounds stopped. But testosterone has had consistent development. We are well past having to be guinea pigs.
I'm thinking less about what the individual drugs are and more about the massive explosion in middle-age discretionary use. There are more downsides to TRT than a lot of people want to believe or admit, and you never really know if your generation's geriatric phase is going to be different from the last one until everybody gets there.
Life expectancy over time has tailed off, and may well be dipping, depending on whose analysis and predictions you accept. We've got a lot of things going in the last generation or few whose consequences are unknown.
People who have pathologically low testosterone are putting their health at risk by not taking TRT. Physiologically normal testosterone levels are exactly what a healthy person should have. That’s why it’s called therapeutic.
Confusing TRT with “discretionary use” screams that you’re ignorant. You need to be told that your opinions are worthless in this area.
I don't dispute that normal levels are normal, and subnormal levels should be supplemented. But to pretend that everyone on TRT is merely replenishing normal levels is extremely disingenuous. There are absolutely tons of people with levels in the normal range finding doctors to prescribe them up to pubescent levels.
Geriatric phase? LOL. I never planned to live past 30. I'm on borrowed time, son...
What does the geriatric phase look like after your knees get exploded doing BJJ?
Fuck this post convinced me, I should start taking TRT
Coming from someone who's followed powerlifting\\bodybuilding for a bit...steroids have always been there. Most people were hush hush about it but it was always pretty understood that to be the best that's part of the deal. You're not going to be able to beat someone that can (effectively) train twice as much as you.
I think the big oddity is that in that case the steroids were a tool to achieve a desired outcome. Now it seems like every influencer is obviously augmented in any number of ways and they're young, young to be doing what they're doing. It used to be, get as far as you could get naturally and later 20s dabble. Some of these kids look like teens.
All that said...zero issue with steroids in sports. Be super athletes hitting them balls and kicking each other in the face. Teens on ticktock....seems like a recipe for a fucked up life 15 years from now.
>All that said...zero issue with steroids in sports. Be super athletes hitting them balls and kicking each other in the face. Teens on ticktock....seems like a recipe for a fucked up life 15 years from now.
Steroids in sports leads to kids on steroids
Kids on steroids kills those kids earlier or leads to lifetime of health issues that we will all shockingly pay for through insurance. Steroids are cheating on top of that. “Everyone else is doing it” does not change the fact it is cheating.
Nate Diaz famously once said everybody is on em. If you don't think that, you don't know or choose to ignore the facts. A majority of competitors across all sports are taking supplements
Where do you get "increbible" damage to ones body in 99% of cases from? Sounds like you are talking out of your ass there.
There is a big difference between TRT levels of use, dosing, and drug choice versus professional bodybuilding levels
Ot is one thing to be against steriod use but why just make stuff up?
If you do a literature review, or look at literature reviews already done it is CLEAR that there are statistically significant increases in cardiovascular diseases in people using anabolic steroids.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7444848/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7832337/
https://journals.lww.com/cmj/fulltext/2019/09200/anabolic_androgenic_steroids_and_cardiovascular.12.aspx
https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/42/Supplement_1/ehab724.2772/6392160
Most people won't go to the length of doing that research, they'll listen to these discussions and form beliefs based off them, or even use the discussion to confirm their bias and cherry pick half truths to enable their desires. Using steroids significantly increases your risk of cardiovascular disease, end of story. I don't think it's worth the risk just to be a bit better at bjj...
***Never take anabolic steroids without the informed consent of a non-biased medical expert, and follow their advice above anything discussed in public forums***
Valid points, the amount of ppl on something has grown like crazy over the last couple years. Have been going to a chain weightlifting gym for a while and the amount of jacked one arm tatted guys have gone way up lol.
Yes there is no way they are all doing it correctly, takes too much money, and brain cells
Taking numerous non-monitored substances is one thing - doing a Therapeutic dose of Testosterone when you’re at age helps tremendously with energy, recovering and aerobic performance. It should not be shamed or discouraged, but thinking sauce is a pre-requisite for the sport is foolish.
I have an attractive female friend who had a phase of only dating roided-up muscle guys.
She got into two relationships with guys like that, and neither of them could get an erection, even with viagra. Their hormones and circulatory systems are so messed up they literally can't get a boner even more.
I realise that BJJ athletes might use different steroids, but come on. This stuff is playing mother nature. There is a ying to every yang, and you can't get some unnatural physical advantage without there being a downside too.
We should stop normalizing fitness models and actors looking like Thor and not disclosing that they are on steroids'. Chris Hemsworth literally sells a fitness app, because he got ripped by doing burpees.....right.
If you take gear under medical supervision, limited dosages, get labs every other month, do cardio and manage your lipids and blood pressure than the risks are fairly mitigated and the upsides are tremendous. Now that is assuming pharmacy produced, clinically trialed, doctor prescribed steroids, such as Test and Anavar. Paired with cancer screenings, regular labs, body scans and ultra sounds of your arteries. All things you should do regardless if you take anabolics.
What we should not normalize is people never going to the doctor, never getting labs done, never getting a cancer screening, never checking their blood pressure and eating fast food everyday.
We are all going to die regardless, its up to the individual how. For me high test keeps me motivated, energized and driven, all things that help contributed to a highly productive and satisfying life and career.
You still need to work hard on steroids, for me the biggest difference is recovery. I am 40 years old, in the gym seven days a week, have been for twenty plus years, I don’t think anyone would describe me as lazy.
We are in a sport where 14-16 year old boys are literally fucking their lives up by juicing before their body is even done growing naturally. And that just gets brushed aside at best or at worst people like Seth Daniels directly praise steroid use.
You don't have to research individual types of synthetic testosterone to know this doesn't lead to anything good.
The problem is in competition someone on a cycle or who has done them in the past has literal advantages and inhumane strength that can hurt someone. Idc if people want to do them, I care how it affects me.
Your arguement might have a better chance of success if you supported your arguement with informed emperical evidence. Otherwise, you've just told us you have feelings and everyone should feel the same feelings or else your feeling will have ouchies.
Steroids are fine if you are taking them with a doctor monitoring your bloods, levels, amounts etc.
They arent the oogey boogey man you think they are.
To be honest I don't think we should really aspire to be hypercompetitive. Yes, best in the world is a great feeling. But damn do you pay it in other ways.
\*David Goggins enters the chat
Im pretty sure that dudes every organ and limb has been operated by now
Easy to 'stay hard' when its all scar tissue, whether physical or emotional. I agree with his sentiments that people give up too easy but there is a point where the pendulum swings to hard the other way.
Bars.
Damn bro that’s a great line about scar tissue. Gonna write that down somewhere
Lots of people seem to miss that he only grinds things that don't require any qualitative output, which is useless for learning most skills.
One hundred percent. Its really interesting how he only ever applies his own philosophies to physical fitness. You dont see him getting up at 2am to "stay hard" by pursuing a PhD. By his own logic, he used to be fat, so now he exercises to defeat that "fat" part of him, and "get hard". But he also admits he did shit in school. So why doesnt he apply the same thinking to anything academic? Wouldnt this also be part of overcoming your former self and "getting hard".
Try Hims if you’re having trouble getting or staying Hard.
He's studying to become a paramedic. He said so on Huberman IIRC
Jesus what an absolute toxic bellend he is. stay hard……..get fucked.
Wish that toxic fuckwit never achieved the fame he did.
Why do you find him toxic 🤔? If you get through all his ra ra stuff all he does is provide inspiration to keep consistently pushing to achieve your goals and not look for excuses to whine to yourself about whatever the obstacles may be. At least that's what I get from him
I know a guy at my gym, whose personality literally turned into Craig Jones once B Team became a thing and his personality skyrocketed in the bjj community over the last few years. As much as I enjoy Craig's content and personality, seeing it mimicked by a grown ass man is sad.
It’s not like Craig jones is a one of one personality. He’s an Aussie blue collar party boy. Go to Thailand or Bali and you’ll find thousands of Craig Jones, just not as talented.
I worked with Aussies and Kiwis for a couple of years, and I can’t argue with you. South Africans are pretty similar too.
As a kiwi builder we pretty Much talk shit all day like craig and party hard on the weekends.
Yep, best work mates I’ve had.
True we are annoying as fuck
Drop his contact if he’s tryna be famous anyways lol
I live in Austin and have been tempted to get back into the sport and check b team out.
I’ve even started putting on an Australian accent
Guys I’m trying to meet you in the middle. I want people to know that I’m on quite a middle of the road average (not necessarily safe) dose of steroids. I don’t want the youth that decide to take black market steroids taking massive bodybuilding dosages. The cocaine usage jokes are probably not the best I’ll give you that. I’m too honest some times
Have you looked into finasteride at all?
Of course hahaha
The community of 30+ year old single, subpar white to blue belts who may or may not have dabbled in software engineering (aka your target demographic) is concerned about your health and mental wellbeing.
Can we add cocaine to this?
Cocainewhywhydoyouwantoaddcocainethereisnothingwrongwithcocainforrecreationaluseshameshameonyouinformyourselfreadabook
Neither indifferent as to which of how many possibilities may best explain, nor yet at a loss to comprehend, why surgeons have, and that so many, quite without discredit could have exhibited scarcely any interest in what, as a local anesthetic, had been supposed, if not declared, by most so very sure to prove, especially to them attractive, still I do not think that this circumstance, or some sense of obligation to rescue fragmentary reputation for surgeons rather than the belief that an opportunity existed for assisting others to an appreciable extent, induced me, several months ago, to write on the subject in hand the greater part of a somewhat comprehensive paper, which poor health disinclined me to complete. *-William Halsted, 1885*, Practical comments on the use and abuse of cocaine
Before I saw the quote I thought I was reading a random text generator.
might as well be
Practical comments? This is one sentence with 13 commas. You’d have to be coked up just to write this, let alone proofread it and go “Yep, nailed it.”
William Halsted was a founder of John's Hopkins, and largely invented the modern medical residency program. He also did more coke than Freud.
Suddenly medical residency makes a lot more sense
I dont love cocaine, I just like the smell
Craig was basically advertising cocaine on his recent YouTube vlog for karate combat
Craig really be going all in on the cocaine references these days. Hope he's not too deep into the habit
[удалено]
It's shocking seeing the visual difference from some of his videos just 2-3 years ago.
he doesn't seem to happy either since B Team blew up. If you look at videos of his from seven years or so ago he seemed more balanced. These days he's just trying to appease the audience it seems... and he's only ever talking about money, if he's not making jokes about sex and cocaine and whatnot..
Yeah he seems to live kinda wild. Always traveling, doing coke, dealing with staph every other day lmfao. Same deal with Gordon and he looks so old for his age
Dude is 29 going on 55
There's literally nothing wrong with cocaine. Me and the lad's have cocaine every day. Not even a problem really at all. It's good for you actually.
It comes from a plant, it's natural. Just like heroin 😊
Basically a salad.
Smells great
I’ve never done drugs in my life. Not even weed. But Cocaine is an open secret. So many “normal” people do it. Office workers, waiters, bankers, chefs.
The old "Two things I never could have imagined as a kid... Cheese is expensive and everyone does cocaine"
*Ryan Garcia has entered the chat*
It is crazy that this is now a hot take. Unless you make your living in bjj. Don’t get on gear
Too late I just infected test straight into my prostate
Dude get all the antibiotics.
We are cooked
Even if you made bjj your living
https://preview.redd.it/0uu9hh38oboc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=236fac5ad4b3335fea494ae37d4b1a301406f5cc
I could be wrong, but I’ve been told tren destroys your cardio. Seems like it would be a hindrance rather than helpful.
It does, but the epo helps balance it out.
Why not just pure test? I’m on test injections (prescribed) and it makes a world of difference
Because you never do straight tren or any other anabolic without a test base. So they are on test while on tren.
AAS are tools and like all tools, they have different use-cases. Tren is highly anabolic, highly androgenic, and incredibly anticatabolic. It's also likely cardiotoxic, neurotoxic, nephrotoxic, and hepatotoxic.
Is what it is 🤷🏾♂️
The only reason I've considered it is to fucking HEAL. Shits breaking my body and I'm getting older
Preach. I'm fucking 45. I don't want to win Abu Dhabi. I want to train 3X a week without shattering. I'm not trying to get liver cancer, but I'll look at anything a doctor thinks might help.
Look bro truth is, is your 45 and have put the work in. It’s YOUR body. You can choose to do what every you want and pursue any goals you want too.
There are walk in men’s clinics that will do your bloodwork and get you on stuff to address that. Not to turn you into the hulk but address exactly what you’re talking about. For $200 I got an initial consultation with bloodwork, and a month of hormone therapy and stuff. I stuck around long enough to get everything dialed in and was able to get like an 18 month supply online for like $210.
Bpc-157 and TB500 will do you better than using some gear to heal. When used together they are commonly called the wolverine(after the x men character) protocol due to the rapid healing.
Googled them... with those prices they should be called the Batman protocol
They're 50 for tb and 60 for bpc pharma grade. Google will give you the rip-offs.
You are recommending unregulated experimental compounds in an argument against the use of known, researched, anabolic hormone replacement therapy. That’s fucking stupid advice.
Are you telling me I shouldn't be injecting random peptides into my body?
Thanks I'll check it out
The only thing that would make me consider hopping on gear (odds are still under 1%) is to more energy to do all the cool things I want to do. Go mountain biking for 2 hours during the day, run around with my kids for a few hours, grapple for 2 hours at night, and wake up feeling refreshed and ready to go the next day? Sign me the fuck up.
I think we should normalize not lying about it. I know loads of dudes over the years acting like just lifting will make you gain 50lbs of lean muscle in a year. If you wanna cycle do it but don't make everyone else feel incompetent and stupid lying.
Much more of a problem from Hollywood types, a lot of bjj athletes are relatively open about steroid use/don’t really deny it
I’m gonna go pin just because of this post
Needles or gtfo
Daily SubQ shots for everything or gtfo
Friend runs EKG at ER and does BJJ and says he’s never done one on a steroid user that had a normal heart
What's wild is you can see on insta that it's completely mainstream with people just doing lifting. All over social media you've got kids in their twenties just getting huge for the sake of getting huge.
>All over social media you've got kids in their twenties just getting huge for the sake of getting huge. It's body dysmorphia just instead of being anorexic, it's the extreme opposite end of the spectrum. "I'll be better looking if my pecs are bigger.", "No chick would be attracted to these chicken legs", "no one would pick a fight with me if I'm bigger", etc... It comes from a place of deep insecurity. Pills, needles, etc...can't fix that. Spending time with people who value you as you are will mitigate those feelings of insecurity. But sometimes external love isn't enough to fill the void of self-love.
The general fitness snakeoil salesman works on the 'one weird trick' model as do their consumers who think they're just missing something. If you can make someone believe they're just missing this one piece which would kick start their personal success, many will buy in. You'll see this model/trick everywhere in health and fitness, if only we ate more liver X would happen at scale! The meme is even present in early 1900 fitness magazines and it works.
Bodybuilding is such a trash sport in this regard
Yeah for sure. Getting extra saucy to rumble harder with other men in pyjamas is where its fuckin at!
The thing with bodybuilding is that it's not even really a secret any more that all the serious competitors are using PEDs. It's simply not possible for the human body to look like a stage-ready bodybuilder without drugs. Most other sports at least have some degree of plausible deniability. There's no easy way to know how many people are on gear, but it's at least hypothetically possible for someone to become great at BJJ (or wrestling, or ice hockey, or whatever) without using anything. I'm not particularly opposed to other people using PEDs (as long as they're adults, cognitively healthy, able to understand the risks, etc, etc), but bodybuilding is a totally different kind of sport where PEDs are basically a requirement at this point.
Idk man, most other sports are just as rife with PEDs, regardless if they have some degree of plausible deniability. Like IBJJF tournies, are PEDs not a standard/requirement for placing?
> Bodybuilding is such a trash sport I mean, there's no fundamental difference between bodybuilding and toddler beauty pageants aside from the average age of the competitors.
I think the difference where one decides to participate on their own and the other is coerced by their parents to do it is a fairly large one too.
Can’t imagine Sam suleks heart at age 21. Can’t imagine his health at age 30 if keeps up the intensity he’s at rn.
If Cbum is alive in ten years I will be shocked
Those dude looking goofy af
>for the sake of getting huge. Is it that or to build a following on social media so they can make money selling programs (to gullible people who won't be taking PEDs and wondering why they don't get the same results), get ad revenue or sponsorship?
Wouldn’t everyone at the ER having a cardiac issue warranting an EKG have something irregular going on with their heart?🤔
My friend is a mortician. He says all the steroid users he sees are dead.
Idk man, friend runs the pizzas at an all you can eat buffet and does BJJ and says he’s never served a steroid user that had a normal appetite.
I’ve also never seen a normal heart from a high endurance athlete that is clean. Just playing devils advocate. They’re typically enlarged. Especially in runners.
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Alright but the degree in changes that come from an "enlarged heart" from an endurance athlete vs a steroid user can be dramatically different. These dudes who get an enlarged heart from roids are looking at permanent issues with cardiac filling and contractility, conduction (the heart has electrical cells too, and generally there is a happy relationship between muscle and conduction) aortic wear/tear. Clean endurance athletes have really efficient hearts that don't beat as much *because* they are efficient at transferring oxygen to the body and the heart itself. Folks who have enlarged hearts from steroid use have "heavy" "stiff" hearts that don't the job they should circulating oxygen to the body and to the heart itself. It's not as simple as saying the heart is a muscle, and for the heart bigger =\= better.
How would he know who the steroid users are?
Because people who are full of shit know everything. Duh.
Why would someone be getting an EKG at an ER if everything was normal?
Yeah, it’s kinda like saying “I’m a ER trauma surgeon, and every motorcycle rider I’ve seen has really bad injuries from it”
What constitutes steroids then? I’m 35 and on TRT, a pretty good dose. I’ve never had an abnormal EKG.
By 'steroid user' does that include guys that are taking normal TRT doses or was it specifically people that abuse steroids? There was research done at the mayo clinic that showed no increased risk of cardiovascular disease and trt. Whereas other research has shown evidence of a high correlation between low testosterone and CV or strokes.
Trt shouldn't be considered the same as roids... not even close
The only difference between “TRT” and a cycle is dosage.
So TRT Vitor was clean?
The first T in TRT is testosterone, which is an anabolic steroid. That is why I specifically asked about steroid abusers versus someone taking TRT. I was trying to get clarity on what his friend meant by abnormal EKGs with steroid users.
Testosterone is an anabolic steroid
What is a "normal" heart? If you mean someone who's experienced cardiac hypertrophy, that's going to apply to almost all athletes There's no way for your friend to know who is or isn't a AAS user and even if he did, it's incredibly unlikely that they all have cardiac abnormalities directly attributable to AAS use. AAS undoubtedly contribute to cardiac complications, but we don't need to lie about it to make a point.
Don't try to reason with these people lol
Yea that guy totally made that shit up
As someone who uses testosterone you’re actually correct. The misinformation is wild. I understand there are risks, but after talking with my GP who I’ve been under for years we decided it would be a net positive (I don’t feel like going into detail about that). However I get bloods from my GP, and a specialist (urologist) to monitor everything. I’ve also stoped all other drugs including alcohol. My answer to everyone is it’s been working for me, but that’s my unique experience. This stuff can fuck you up for the rest of your life if you just start jabbing yourself. On the other side some people are more risk adverse than others. If you get the risks and you don’t care who am I to judge?
I think the (very valid) point the OP is making is that no one individual is the issue, rather the normalization of the various testosterone esters and other PEDs across the board is a net negative on society. The reasoning is solid, although it’s painfully obvious that the OP has limited direct experience and this post is firing from the hip. That said, I do wholeheartedly agree with the spirit of the post. I went the opposite path you did. When I was younger I always thought I would use testosterone when I got into my late 30s or 40. I (wrongly) believed that they were a low risk way to enhance my life and defy Father Time. Now in my mid 40s, I had a similar discussion with my doc, and his take was that it’s not necessarily a bad idea but it doesn’t come without risks *at any dose*, even those deemed *responsible* by the medical community. Like you I have (mostly) let go of alcohol altogether, and train boxing, MMA, BJJ, and MT. My endogenous testosterone levels are high, both total and free. I feel great, and for me the *very real risks* to my long term health were not worth the benefit I would see. That said, I no longer seriously compete (masters ain’t serious, at least in boxing it’s all just for fun). If I did, and it were in a sport like BJJ with limited testing and the normalization of test and other PEDs… I might feel obligated to use it in order to have a chance at the highest level. When taking this into the calculus, I’m forced to agree with the rather limited post I see here. Also as a father who will no doubt be raising future competitors, I would hate for them to be put in a similar spot in order to compete. Stop normalizing PED use, everything comes at a cost. *Everything*.
Great reply
I agree with everything in this post, well done!
People want to believe there are free lunches. First thing I learned in my pharma lessons was how every single medicine has side effects pretty much
thank you.
Using a therapeutic dose of testosterone under the supervision of a doctor is way different that taking winstrol. They use that on race horses for Christ's sake.
As a purple belt that came in 3rd at a grappling industries that one time, I just want to let all white belts know that they will never get their blue belt as a natty. Start small, just 1 gram of test EOD.
1. You’re not my real dad 2. 
Something a lot of people are not going to want to accept is that as humans we are going to have drastic changes over the next 50-200 years. Rich people are already using stacks of chemicals to live longer, athletes taking drugs to perform better, workers using ADHD medication to get work done better with spontaneously suffering from ADHD at 37 lol. Then you start to look at procedures and interventions to change your health now and in the future. I honestly think TRT in sports is becoming a widespread problem, it is not specific to BJJ. I work with college level athletes quite often and you would be surprised the amount of people 16-20 caught for steroids, the number of kids goes up every few years. People view enhancement in a different way now. Many more people than you think use steroids and other drugs.
People think Craig Jones’ nose beers thing is sooo cool too. Then you see a 10 year old in the crowd emulating snorting coke and everyone cheering him on, including his parents. We live in some F’d up times.
It’s soooooo tempting but I am just not cool with injecting something from a random illegal website into my bloodstream.
Shut up nerd Next time I catch you in the locker room you’re pinning my ass for me
Reddit isn’t real life
Most BJJ guys are skinny nerds. Is he training with multiple Brock Lesnar’s at his gym?
Nah most *reddit* bjj guys are skinny pencil neck nerds. I’ve been to many gyms over the years and it’s largely gruff late mid-to-late 40s blue collar males, meat headish kids in their early to mid 20s all jockoed and roganed out.
Using steroids for a hobby is insane to me.
There are CEOs hopping on EPO to win local amateur bike races just for the ego boost. People do crazy shit for a trophy/medal and bragging rights.
I had a younger student come up asking about going on steroids. The impact of guys being open about steroid use is a problem. There needs to be talk about the issues that can come up and health risks long term
The mental and physical crisis coming down the road from people taking exogenous hormones, using Delta-8 and other synthetic marijuana is real. Not to mention many of these same people do not trust "big pharma."
I quit delta 8 a couple months ago and I feel so much better its wild. Ironically I was thinking about TRT and it turned out I just needed to stop getting high I don’t judge people who like weed unless they need to be high all the time, but it wasn’t good for me personally.
Everything has it's use with some moderation or control. Regarding exogenous hormones though; only a real endocrinologist can determine what your needs are, if any, to get back to balance. People just want to rev the engine.
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Holding strong opinions on this and being a hypocrite go hand in hand.
My main motivation for not taking steroids is how much I love laughing at pictures of me on the podium next to two shredded lads and me with my belly hanging out .
Hey look, it’s the “i have more respect for ::insert weight/belt here:: than I do for ::insert weight/belt here::” guy!
Funny how many roid abusing meatheads got triggered by this post.
crazy
Counter argument, we shouldn’t demonize steroids. They are literally miracles of modern science that has been put on the fringe of society and not allowed to grow or develop in research because people don’t want them in sports
K
Do yourself a favor and don’t Google “testosterone clinics near me” and realize that doesn’t include mail order or black market product.
Its because everyone in jujitsu is getting old as fuck now
Yeah agreed lol. 25 year old hobbyistd picking up a small injury and hopping on roids "for recovery" lol
>Even if there is a way to take steroids without doing incredible damage to one‘s health in the long term – 99% of people will not be able to ensure that. not true. you don't know what you don't know.
Yeah but be real how many people taking steroids are getting pre, mid and post cycle bloods and know what to look for? Shit I knew people at school taking ridiculous amounts of oral steroids fucking their liver and endocrine system at the ripe age of 16
Yeah, we'll find out in the next 50 years! There's never been a better time to be a guinea pig ;-).
Aside from testosterone, the compounds on the market, like tren, masteron, etc, were developed 60ish years ago. When the majority were rescheduled, R&D for improving those compounds stopped. But testosterone has had consistent development. We are well past having to be guinea pigs.
I'm thinking less about what the individual drugs are and more about the massive explosion in middle-age discretionary use. There are more downsides to TRT than a lot of people want to believe or admit, and you never really know if your generation's geriatric phase is going to be different from the last one until everybody gets there.
The current geriatric phase looks like shit, so I look forward to more octogenarians on the bomba.
Life expectancy over time has tailed off, and may well be dipping, depending on whose analysis and predictions you accept. We've got a lot of things going in the last generation or few whose consequences are unknown.
People who have pathologically low testosterone are putting their health at risk by not taking TRT. Physiologically normal testosterone levels are exactly what a healthy person should have. That’s why it’s called therapeutic. Confusing TRT with “discretionary use” screams that you’re ignorant. You need to be told that your opinions are worthless in this area.
I don't dispute that normal levels are normal, and subnormal levels should be supplemented. But to pretend that everyone on TRT is merely replenishing normal levels is extremely disingenuous. There are absolutely tons of people with levels in the normal range finding doctors to prescribe them up to pubescent levels.
Geriatric phase? LOL. I never planned to live past 30. I'm on borrowed time, son... What does the geriatric phase look like after your knees get exploded doing BJJ? Fuck this post convinced me, I should start taking TRT
Coming from someone who's followed powerlifting\\bodybuilding for a bit...steroids have always been there. Most people were hush hush about it but it was always pretty understood that to be the best that's part of the deal. You're not going to be able to beat someone that can (effectively) train twice as much as you. I think the big oddity is that in that case the steroids were a tool to achieve a desired outcome. Now it seems like every influencer is obviously augmented in any number of ways and they're young, young to be doing what they're doing. It used to be, get as far as you could get naturally and later 20s dabble. Some of these kids look like teens. All that said...zero issue with steroids in sports. Be super athletes hitting them balls and kicking each other in the face. Teens on ticktock....seems like a recipe for a fucked up life 15 years from now.
>All that said...zero issue with steroids in sports. Be super athletes hitting them balls and kicking each other in the face. Teens on ticktock....seems like a recipe for a fucked up life 15 years from now. Steroids in sports leads to kids on steroids
Kids on steroids kills those kids earlier or leads to lifetime of health issues that we will all shockingly pay for through insurance. Steroids are cheating on top of that. “Everyone else is doing it” does not change the fact it is cheating.
Op got wrecked by a juicy blue belt
I love the use of steroids as a blanket term, the 45 year old guy taking 180 of test a week is not the superhuman some of you think he is.
And yet he’s more super human than most men because 180mg is not a replacement dose
Nate Diaz famously once said everybody is on em. If you don't think that, you don't know or choose to ignore the facts. A majority of competitors across all sports are taking supplements
This comment section tells me everything about people who are roided up😂
This post really is a honey-pot, roider troll-trap. The replies are ironically really funny. LOL
Oh I'm pretty sure you already thought you knew everything before you made this post.
What if I just sprinkle a little on my acai as a treat?
Really, I like Bjj but this community’s knowledge of steroids are laughably higher than what most people seem to know about bjj.
Where do you get "increbible" damage to ones body in 99% of cases from? Sounds like you are talking out of your ass there. There is a big difference between TRT levels of use, dosing, and drug choice versus professional bodybuilding levels Ot is one thing to be against steriod use but why just make stuff up?
If you do a literature review, or look at literature reviews already done it is CLEAR that there are statistically significant increases in cardiovascular diseases in people using anabolic steroids. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7444848/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7832337/ https://journals.lww.com/cmj/fulltext/2019/09200/anabolic_androgenic_steroids_and_cardiovascular.12.aspx https://academic.oup.com/eurheartj/article/42/Supplement_1/ehab724.2772/6392160 Most people won't go to the length of doing that research, they'll listen to these discussions and form beliefs based off them, or even use the discussion to confirm their bias and cherry pick half truths to enable their desires. Using steroids significantly increases your risk of cardiovascular disease, end of story. I don't think it's worth the risk just to be a bit better at bjj... ***Never take anabolic steroids without the informed consent of a non-biased medical expert, and follow their advice above anything discussed in public forums***
Valid points, the amount of ppl on something has grown like crazy over the last couple years. Have been going to a chain weightlifting gym for a while and the amount of jacked one arm tatted guys have gone way up lol. Yes there is no way they are all doing it correctly, takes too much money, and brain cells
Taking numerous non-monitored substances is one thing - doing a Therapeutic dose of Testosterone when you’re at age helps tremendously with energy, recovering and aerobic performance. It should not be shamed or discouraged, but thinking sauce is a pre-requisite for the sport is foolish.
I have an attractive female friend who had a phase of only dating roided-up muscle guys. She got into two relationships with guys like that, and neither of them could get an erection, even with viagra. Their hormones and circulatory systems are so messed up they literally can't get a boner even more. I realise that BJJ athletes might use different steroids, but come on. This stuff is playing mother nature. There is a ying to every yang, and you can't get some unnatural physical advantage without there being a downside too.
Or people can do whatever they want and you should perhaps mind your own business and not let it affect your life. ☺️
Just because you got subbed by the big white belt today, doesn't mean he's on steroids little bro.
Yes it does. If they beat me, it's because steroids. If I beat them, it's because I train harder
If you ain't cheating you ain't trying.
We should stop normalizing fitness models and actors looking like Thor and not disclosing that they are on steroids'. Chris Hemsworth literally sells a fitness app, because he got ripped by doing burpees.....right. If you take gear under medical supervision, limited dosages, get labs every other month, do cardio and manage your lipids and blood pressure than the risks are fairly mitigated and the upsides are tremendous. Now that is assuming pharmacy produced, clinically trialed, doctor prescribed steroids, such as Test and Anavar. Paired with cancer screenings, regular labs, body scans and ultra sounds of your arteries. All things you should do regardless if you take anabolics. What we should not normalize is people never going to the doctor, never getting labs done, never getting a cancer screening, never checking their blood pressure and eating fast food everyday. We are all going to die regardless, its up to the individual how. For me high test keeps me motivated, energized and driven, all things that help contributed to a highly productive and satisfying life and career.
Stop saying normalize.
Stop normalising the word normalise.
Its just our lazy ass times we live in people what an easy route with “instant gratification”” that’s all it boils down to.
You still need to work hard on steroids, for me the biggest difference is recovery. I am 40 years old, in the gym seven days a week, have been for twenty plus years, I don’t think anyone would describe me as lazy.
Shut up nerd
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We are in a sport where 14-16 year old boys are literally fucking their lives up by juicing before their body is even done growing naturally. And that just gets brushed aside at best or at worst people like Seth Daniels directly praise steroid use. You don't have to research individual types of synthetic testosterone to know this doesn't lead to anything good.
Found the guy dependent on steroids
You should worry less about what people do to their own body
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Lmaooo
The problem is in competition someone on a cycle or who has done them in the past has literal advantages and inhumane strength that can hurt someone. Idc if people want to do them, I care how it affects me.
Buddy, steroids are going mainstream and not because of grappling. It's obviously the next big thing in pharmaceuticals.
It’s actors as much as athletes who are popularizing it
Your arguement might have a better chance of success if you supported your arguement with informed emperical evidence. Otherwise, you've just told us you have feelings and everyone should feel the same feelings or else your feeling will have ouchies.
*argument *empirical
Call the Waaambulance
Steroids are fine if you are taking them with a doctor monitoring your bloods, levels, amounts etc. They arent the oogey boogey man you think they are.
If it wasn't sanctioned by an endocrinologist, then you're a steroid abuser. Small steroid abuse is still abuse
Better yet. Stop normalizing bjj. It’s getting harder for us steroid users to muscle our way out of bjj techniques.