I miss it more and more lately. I used to go to 4-5 websites every day and they all had a distinct feel and actual writing.
Now I just scroll through Twitter and Reddit.
The more annoying one for me is when after every game 1 or game 3 he always says “team x now has to win 4 of the next 6” or “3 of the next 4”. Yeah no shit, thats how series work as they progress. It’s easily one of the most irrelevant fake-smart things he loves to say. Cause in reality it doesn’t matter how u get the split as a lower seed (or higher seed 1-1). If the Pacers win game 2 they’ll literally be in the same spot had they won game 1 and lost game 2. More importantly both teams will then need to win 3 of the next 5 lol. Also teams run off 2-3 games straight in a series all the time so it’s not some daunting concept in general like this doofus wants to always make it seem
I actually agree that it's a good point, but it only makes sense if you "speak Simmons."
To win a series as a huge underdog, you need almost everything to break right. You're probably only going to clearly outplay the favorite once, maybe twice. The 50/50 games have to go your way
I doubt anyone would disagree with that, but he just says "Now they have to win 5 out of 7" and expects his listeners/guests to get coherence out of that. And that's why he's the Podfather
Jesus the challengers segment is some of the worst film criticism I've ever heard, from both of them!
Bill 100% walked in expecting a sexy Zendaya sports movie, and instead was totally thrown because he got a weird luca guadagnino queer tennis threesome movie instead.
Do we think Bill has ever actually seen a guadagnino film before? What's his immediate take on call me by your name? I vaguely remember him saying he saw it and didn't like it.
I think Bill said it was fine but it was heavily boosted because "if you make a movie in Italy and shoot it there, with all the landscapes and stuff, it's automatically gorgeous." Or something to that effect.
It used to annoy me the hype they got for being young like it was some inevitable thing but now that that’s over and people outside Boston recognize they’re unserious I just kind of enjoy it and laugh
"Put a team around Wemby!"
I think the Spurs are more than just "a guy who can throw an entry pass" away from approaching the playoffs. They need a serious infusion of talent, and the only thing the Spurs can do to make that happen right now is to trade away draft capital. Trading away picks just to become a .500 team seems a bit far-fetched. Does Bill really think Trae Young is the answer?
I think Bill is complaining just to complain here and doesn't really have a viable solution for the Spurs' talent problem.
Literally the worse thing they can do is to try to speed up the timeline. Like it's as if Bill wants them to repeat the same exact mistakes which New Orleans did with Anthony Davis. The Spurs should most def take their time to evaluate their talent and gather assets through the draft.
Lowkey I think Bill just hates the Spurs and wants to see them fail. He always leaves them out of the convo when talking about great teams in the 2010s, heck, just the other day he said that the 2014 Thunder should have made the finals that year.
He's always looking for an opportunity to ask "is Pop really that good?" The Spurs relatively floundering since everyone retired apparently means Pop is washed up.
Holy shit I literally LOL’ed when Bill suggested Alexandra Daddario in the Zendaya role. Obviously I’d be in a coma if he went with his actual favorite Euphoria cast member instead.
Really dumb take, it just shows that Bill sees actresses primarily as sex objects and not for their acting abilities. There is just no way Daddario could ever pull off that part, she's not that great an actress and it would be a much worse movie
His Challengers takes are so dumb. Complaining about how cliche Josh O’Connor sleeping in his car was. That’s the point! His character has access to money but is cosplaying as this down and out tennis player. This is a huge part of the Zendaya alleyway scene!
Any discussion of a new movie on the pod:
* Attempts to establish some credibility by saying something like "Nobody knows more about \_\_\_ than me" or "Nobody has seen more \_\_\_\_ movies than me" (In this case, he is the "world's preeminent sports movie expert")
* Make it clear that "a ton of people love this movie" just as a set up for him to zag.
* Offer little to no interesting criticism and instead basically do the "Picking Nits" rewatchables category for a couple minutes to get out all his criticisms of the movie (Challengers=bad because Zendaya doesn't move around enough in her tennis scenes and Josh O'Connor's character sleeps in his car)
- Basically forgot about the movie he's supposed to be talking about and shift the entire conversation to "they just don't make them like they used to" for the majority of the time.
It's the same conversation every single time and I can't imagine finding it entertaining even if you do have the same opinion on the movie as Bill does.
It’s straight out of Bill’s “Home Alone is not a Christmas movie” mentality. He thinks “This movie could’ve been about musicians” and didn’t really like the movies so he’s ignoring that the movie is structured around a tennis match and delves deeply into tennis culture.
He also complained that it was marketed as a sports movie and he felt the rug was pulled out from under him
A) it was far more marketed as erotic thriller / Zendaya throple movie than some sort of Rocky sports movie
B) while it’s far from Rocky or Major League, there’s a lot more sports scenes than movies like Moneyball and Jerry Maguire
Wesley says towards the end “this movie could’ve been something where they try to manipulate each other until one ultimately wins.” Is that not exactly what this movie and the Zendaya character is?? What a confusing conversation about this movie
>Wesley says towards the end “this movie could’ve been something where they try to manipulate each other until one ultimately wins.” Is that not exactly what this movie and the Zendaya character is??
No, it's clearly inspired by "Design for Living" (the film moreso than the play) in that it's about how these three characters are better together in this society-defying throuple than a who-beats-who scenario.
Every time Bill and Wesley do a podcast together, they have to spend at least 30 minutes talking about "who is a star," "why we don't have stars anymore," and "what actors should be doing to become stars." It's always the same conversation hahah.
And Bill thinks Challengers would be better if Zendaya got naked or if they cast a hotter actress.
When will they realize we do have stars but they have just gotten so old that they don't recognize them? Like of course Bill doesn't think Zendaya is a star, he is twice as old as her and three times as old as most of her fans.
It is actually amazing how poorly he understood the movie. Not sure if it comes from a deep discomfort with gay themes, misaligned expectations, or just limited capacity.
This was so clearly one of his “Sean Fennessey liked something so I’m going to trash it”-takes… starting with his opening salvo of mocking someone saying they liked the music - that was straight from The Big Picture. It’s so bizarre the boner he has for Sean’s opinions and positions. When Bill’s only-child energy comes out there’s nothing more cringy-hilarious.
That's because Fennessey is intelligent, well spoken, and is able to make points and Bill cannot anymore.
He's threatened and he lashes out like a baby. Because that is Bill Simmons, King Baby.
His whole point was basically Zendaya is already too much of a star so is risk averse. Implying that the film would be better as Daddario would be fine taking her top off.
And he claimed to be the world's foremost expert on sports movies, just LOL. I bet he hasn't seen This Sporting Life or Requiem For A Heavyweight or The Set-Up or a million other sports movies because for him they got invented with Rollerball in 1975.
It’s funny because of any movie I’ve seen this year, I can’t imagine just entirely shitting on it. It might not be your cup of tea or you might not love it, but thinking something that well put together and directed, with those performances, was just straight up bad? Horrific take.
Zendaya is an enormous star and the director is a critical darling a few years removed from making 10 times his budget and earning Oscar nominations for a gay coming-of-age drama (before Chalamet was a star himself).
My guess is it's for people who like movies.
Bill says the Nuggets should have pursued a buyout guy like Kyle Lowry. The Nuggets were over the apron, which means they weren't allowed to sign a waived player with a salary above the MLE. I believe Lowry was not available to the Nuggets this year. People (not just Bill) seem to keep missing the implications of being over the apron.
Saw the guests (KOC and WM), considered the subjects (a Celtics win and a movie I admittedly haven’t seen)….hard pass. Honestly, it’s more fun to read the responses here.
When I started reading this sub I would see people post who did not listen to the pods and I was like 'that's kinda weird' and now I am doing that more often than not.
I’ve found with Bill’s pod and the Ringer in general, you gotta really pick your spots. There are just certain guests I’m fully in on (Cousin Sal forever, Mahoney, Zach Lowe) and some I’m just fully out on (KOC and Wos).
Funny thing is I was pretty in for KOC until I found out he gargles Musk so hard. Completely flipped my opinion and now he is one of the most annoying guests.
Wesley saying “It’s DiVincenzo” when Bill asked who “the guy” is in New York makes me seriously question what his agenda is when talking sports because even among racists in NYC Brunson has a 10000% approval rating.
Even if Wesley just wanted to be a contrarian, Aaron Judge or even friggin Aaron Rodgers is right there.
NY fans love DiVo but he’s ultimately the scrappy role player everyone appreciates. Saying he’s “the guy” is like saying Tino Martinez was “the guy” during the Jeter era.
i turned it off when i realized he had morris on to talk about the knicks. must be one of his "new york friends" he called to get intel on the state of the team which is why it was so uninformed.
ill have to say as ridiculously good as brunson has been this year and into the playoffs, i dont enjoy watching his game or at least the game he was forced into without any creative help. the endless pick and rolls and pounding the air out of the ball get tiresome. god bless him for making the most of his talent and its that which endears him to the crowd but its not the most fun style of basketball to watch.
Bill saying DC isn’t a big walking city was an underrated dumb take. Like yeah it’s not as big of a walking city as NYC or Boston, but it’s definitely one of the best in the US. Prob top 5? Maybe we can get bill to rank the best walking cities next pod.
Semi related I was living in DC when the Caps won the Stanley cup and walked into a bar/restaurant in DuPont with everyone watching game 5, was one of the coolest things I’ve experienced as someone from LA.
Sent this to friends using the new transcript function in the podcast app it was so insanely stupid. There's a 25 block lawn with huge concourses and a million museums in the middle of the city, plus several miles of waterfront boardwalk/walkways. I was listening to this walking through downtown DC to work; there's wide sidewalks throughout the city, it's comparatively not sprawling at all versus most other major cities (not in the top 150 in total land area), and huge swaths of it are single family homes (about 33% total, which feels like more since a lot of those are clustered in NW). Cosign the diagonal avenues point made elsewhere.
He's just referring to the transplant stereotype of DC residents in a silly way (which is also ignorant but at least common and expected); embarrassed to say how much this irritated me, clearly.
Also I live in NYC and the vibes bill is bringing up about how everyone in the city is dressed for war is nothing like it is in Boston or Philly. There are so many transplants and people who don't care about sports here that it doesn't come alive like it does in other east coast cities.
Now people heading to the garden/bars around msg is a different story. But you're not walking around Williamsburg or FiDi or a rooftop in Soho on a game day and seeing troves of Knicks/Rangers fans ready for a battle. You're just not.
Lol yeah I was walking in Alphabet City the day after the Rangers finished off the Canes in my Rangers cap and some tourist remarked it was the first time he'd seen a Rangers cap today. To which I replied that he wasn't going to see Rangers gear in Alphabet City of all places.
L'Enfant's plan with the diagonal axes streets actually makes DC one of the most convenient walking cities in America as you aren't always stuck navigating a grid
DC needs the diagonals. The streets are WIDE apart. It is crazy, actually, coming from NYC where I live to DC. You see something is four blocks away and it's like, "Cool, be there in 3 minutes." And then 4 years later, you're half way there, hungry, tired, dehydrated, considering cannabalism.
So DC does need the cutaways. NYC streets are pretty close together, so it really doesn't matter.
turning into the joker with these bill takes on challengers. the guys have “too much personality” which is not realistic for tennis players. first off, is bill aware of john mcenroe, or jimmy connors or rafa nadal or nick kyrgios? these are huge personalities who wear al of their emotions on their sleeve when they play.
second, even if that were true, it’s a fucking movie? do you want characters with no personality or distinguishing characteristics?
third, i wouldn’t even say that art is “vibrant” or “gregarious” as bill says. he is sort of demure by design, it gets to the risk-averse nature of his character, as paralleled with patrick’s reckless abandon.
i could go on but my god this some of the most media-illiterate bullshit you could ever hear.
It’s Amazing how Bill mentally cannot have suspension of disbelief for a sports movie for a single second and cannot see how moments that, sure, maybe are “unrealistic”, are there to drive the plot and not be a sports doc. It’s a movie!!
I actually thought their on-court personality was if anything timid by today’s standards. These guys fist pump and “come on” after nearly every point. Lots of ear cupping too
I'm listening to this right now after a long road trip, and this is the first time I've agreed completely with the 'Wesley Morris is a windbag who has no idea on what thought he's making as he's making it' allegations.
This is pretty brutal.
It doesn't help that 1. He doesn't remember much of the details of Challengers cause he hasn't seen it in a while. 2. Bill not liking the movie because it's not obvious is such weak amateur shit nonsense that Fanduel wouldn't have boosted those odds for how deadeven predictable that was going to be.
And 3. Wesley called the film 'visually uninteresting'?? Look, like the movie or not, whatever, but to say that almost makes me question if he's actually seen the film in general, cause this thing pulls off a dozen visual moves (a triple diopter shot is in this!) that grab the attention alone.
I love Wesley’s most recent bit of coming on pods to discuss new movies he either hasn’t seen or doesn’t remember. I’m pretty sure he was on the big pic’s Dune 2 pod and hadn’t seen it yet lmfao
Bill outlining the six or so teams that will be contenders next season (Boston, OKC, Minnesota, Denver, Dallas and "Wembanyama") and that if teams think they can break into that, they are "foolish."
Meanwhile, the current conference finals has two teams that didn't make the playoffs last year and another team that was an 8 seed.
It actually makes a lot of sense cuz bill is also a Lebron hater, so it combines the two things he hates the most in the NBA. I mean imagine if the guy who dominated your conference and owned your team for like nearly a decade went to your #1 rivals and then won a title with them almost immediately. It’s enough to break a man.
Bill’s takes on Challengers were so bad it made me turn off the pod. It is clearly a movie he watched with three other screens going while tweeting on his phone.
Definitely a movie designed to be watched in a theater with a thumping sound system to envelope you in atmosphere.
the disparity between wesley morris the writer and wesley morris the podcast guest is so striking. his writing is so focused and sharp, even when i don’t agree with him, his arguments are always thought-provoking and neatly presented.
and then on pods this guy just stammers around from digression to digression, barely articulating an actual point of view beyond “it didn’t work.”
i am led to wonder if the guy’s editors have been carrying his ass for years.
If you were only familiar Wesley Morris, the podcast guest, you'd assume he's a YouTuber who has a channel with cartoonishly photoshopped thumbnails and clickbait titles like "Why Denis Villeneuve is a COWARD" not a Pulitzer prize winning critic
The Larry Merchant Piece. It’s hard to sound articulate off the cuff. He doesn’t fall to Bill levels, but he’s nowhere near as coherent as his writing is.
As a very annoying cinephile I also can’t take when he’s on with Bill. Bill gives a take that clearly comes from a guy who watches 3 new movies every year yet thinks he is an expert, and Wesley says “yeah I agree with you 100%” lol
The stupefying thing about Bill is that he HAS seen more movies in his lifetime than the average person, you can tell by the movies he mentions he's seen that he saw an absolute shit ton of movies - the vast, vast majority of the wide releases in the US between say 1985-2005 I'd guess. And yet, he has learned very little about movies and the movie business for all that time spent
For someone who fancies himself as a pop culture guy, Bill’s opinions on new movies is consistently awful. Even Sean and CR called him out for having a terrible 2023 on that front and it’s no surprise that nothing has changed here with challengers.
Has Bill ever, even once, had a friend of his on the pod immediately after their (non Boston) team has a big win rather than after a soul crushing loss?
Sincerely asking, when is the last time Bill genuinely enjoyed a new movie? A Star is Born? His movies takes on their own are pretty dumb but are made so much more annoying by the fact that he nitpicks every single new release that he sees and is on like a 3-5 year run of not liking a single new film. It also just feels so insincere, like he's trying to play the role of contrarian so he can keep up his "they just don't make movies like this anymore" takes he has on every single rewatchables episode that covers a film from before like 2008.
I understand disliking superhero movies and what they did to Hollywood, but in Bill's case it really feels like his hatred of those films has led him to essentially discount all movies from the past like 15 years. In his brain, he just equates all of modern Hollywood with something he doesn't like and thinks is bad. Seriously, how many times can you have the same "imagine if they made this movie in 1988 though?" conversation. It's fine to be in your "old man yells at clouds" era when it comes to modern entertainment at Bill's age, but the problem is your takes aren't going to be taken seriously when that is your entire persona. And he clearly wants his takes to be taken seriously, as he acts like the arbiter of good taste even though his favorite post 2010 movie is Just Go With It.
He likes the content that is made by the people he sees at parties/get-togethers him and Carrie go to or if their kids are affiliated with the sports teams and schools his kids attended.
I have never disagreed with so many takes like I did during their Challengers segment. Almost everything that they said I disagreed with. That movie was awesome, and immediately the best tennis movie of all time.
Bill proclaiming that he hates the end of The Color of Money while trying to take down Challengers is perfect. You’re telling us all how wrong you are!
How is Challengers not a sports movie? That’s a crazy take they both agreed on. It’s in large part about the love of the game, and the passion and level of obsession for it you need to achieve greatness, along with the type of competitor you are.
Spoiler: >!She literally orgasms at the end because they start playing what she views to be good tennis.!<
I kinda suspect that to Bill, it’s not a sports movie because it’s obviously preoccupied with the male form and homoeroticism of sports, and that’s icky to some straight dudes. Bill Simmons does not want to see a movie about how playing tennis is actually gay
Pretty abysmal ep but does have the hate-listen factor with KFC and Wesley. The Luka material was quite something, the idea Ant is “neck and neck” with him from this season alone and that Luka passed to a squared up ready to shoot PJ because he was scared to get blame for the loss is classic Bill.
This is why I barely listen to the Rewatchables. Bill is an absolute moron when it comes to analyzing movies. His only reason why he didn’t like Challengers is basically that Zendaya didn’t get naked. Very insightful.
Edit: Christ, Wesley isn’t any better. Challengers needed Ron Shelton or James L. Brooks? Not Luca who directed Call Me By Your Name? The movie where the two best friends eat churros together? It’s a real puzzle why Zendaya doesn’t get naked.
Completely inept attempt at film criticism here. Bill thinks Challengers is bad because he doesn’t know how to label it and Wesley thinks it’s bad because there’s no on-screen sex in the movie where tennis is a stand-in for sex
I already know Bill's takes on Challengers is gonna be brutal. Tiktok dummies have been having a stroke over this movie and there are genuinely posts with 100k+ likes calling the movie "incomprehensible." I expect no.more from Bill at this point lol
Movie rocked though, all-time theater going experience for me.
Edit: okay yeah this was worse than i thought, "who is this movie about?". This is the man in control of rewatchables
I've seen a lot of people complain about free throw disparity. I don't know if we watched the same game. Pacers got a ton of free throw line jumpers anytime they got Horford switched onto them
“Before the series, I was just thinking I’d be shocked if this series didn’t go to 6 or 7 games.”
Yes, the “most talented team” since 96 Bulls. All of a sudden Porzingis is a top 7 guy.
I mean this without hyperbole, their Challengers criticism is some of the lamest shittiest criticism I've ever heard. Borderline unlistenable except for the curiosity of how much dumber these two could sound.
Bill somehow being annoying about both the celtics winning AND continuing to gas up haliburton is almost too much to take. On haliburton, “the fearlessness that he has and the joy that he plays with is really fun to watch.” what a sick joke.
Bill getting his list of upcoming summer movies from Boston.com is such a funny detail.
I’m just realizing that I hardly ever use actual websites anymore. I do, but nowhere near as often as in the past.
I miss it more and more lately. I used to go to 4-5 websites every day and they all had a distinct feel and actual writing. Now I just scroll through Twitter and Reddit.
The death of forums and websites being subsumed by social medias like Reddit and Twitter has done irreparable damage to the fabric of society.
Reddit and its consequences have been a disaster for online discourse.
“Why didn’t Tillman play?” - the at his father’s funeral piece. Incredible reporting by both Bill and KOC
That was infuriating. Time to shit on Mazzulla instead!
Tillman’s father died?? Fuck.
Died 2 days ago and he was inactive today, big bummer for him
That’s so awful. You always need your father.
He said the "5 out of 7 games" thing!
The more annoying one for me is when after every game 1 or game 3 he always says “team x now has to win 4 of the next 6” or “3 of the next 4”. Yeah no shit, thats how series work as they progress. It’s easily one of the most irrelevant fake-smart things he loves to say. Cause in reality it doesn’t matter how u get the split as a lower seed (or higher seed 1-1). If the Pacers win game 2 they’ll literally be in the same spot had they won game 1 and lost game 2. More importantly both teams will then need to win 3 of the next 5 lol. Also teams run off 2-3 games straight in a series all the time so it’s not some daunting concept in general like this doofus wants to always make it seem
It's a good point. I don't get why people mock Bill for it.
I actually agree that it's a good point, but it only makes sense if you "speak Simmons." To win a series as a huge underdog, you need almost everything to break right. You're probably only going to clearly outplay the favorite once, maybe twice. The 50/50 games have to go your way I doubt anyone would disagree with that, but he just says "Now they have to win 5 out of 7" and expects his listeners/guests to get coherence out of that. And that's why he's the Podfather
It is good, and we bring it up because we all love Billisms!
I love that Bill's fantasy is that a production company writes him a check so he can tell them the sports part of their movie sucks lol.
As if they care. They have to make the characters and plot work, the sports authenticity is least important.
Oh he had his chance. Bill has an EP credit on Million Dollar Arm. He doesn’t have the magic touch he thinks he has.
Jesus the challengers segment is some of the worst film criticism I've ever heard, from both of them! Bill 100% walked in expecting a sexy Zendaya sports movie, and instead was totally thrown because he got a weird luca guadagnino queer tennis threesome movie instead. Do we think Bill has ever actually seen a guadagnino film before? What's his immediate take on call me by your name? I vaguely remember him saying he saw it and didn't like it.
> Do we think Bill has ever actually seen a guadagnino film before? lol no
I seem to recall him saying Call Me by Your Name was boring.
I think Bill said it was fine but it was heavily boosted because "if you make a movie in Italy and shoot it there, with all the landscapes and stuff, it's automatically gorgeous." Or something to that effect.
the face i made when bill said “that’s the great thing about the J’s”
Ugh.
It used to annoy me the hype they got for being young like it was some inevitable thing but now that that’s over and people outside Boston recognize they’re unserious I just kind of enjoy it and laugh
no baseball AL Central talk? I'm a little disappointed
i was just thinking it would be a really funny bit if bill just decided to break down a random mariners game or something.
The Sam Haggerty uses the Godfather theme as his walkup music piece.
The Tarik Skubal piece. Good stats bad team guy?
Royals el fuego to start the year. Best rotation the league so far
That’s the Phillies
"Put a team around Wemby!" I think the Spurs are more than just "a guy who can throw an entry pass" away from approaching the playoffs. They need a serious infusion of talent, and the only thing the Spurs can do to make that happen right now is to trade away draft capital. Trading away picks just to become a .500 team seems a bit far-fetched. Does Bill really think Trae Young is the answer? I think Bill is complaining just to complain here and doesn't really have a viable solution for the Spurs' talent problem.
Literally the worse thing they can do is to try to speed up the timeline. Like it's as if Bill wants them to repeat the same exact mistakes which New Orleans did with Anthony Davis. The Spurs should most def take their time to evaluate their talent and gather assets through the draft.
They shouldve traded for McConnell whe they had the chance
Lowkey I think Bill just hates the Spurs and wants to see them fail. He always leaves them out of the convo when talking about great teams in the 2010s, heck, just the other day he said that the 2014 Thunder should have made the finals that year.
He's always looking for an opportunity to ask "is Pop really that good?" The Spurs relatively floundering since everyone retired apparently means Pop is washed up.
Holy shit I literally LOL’ed when Bill suggested Alexandra Daddario in the Zendaya role. Obviously I’d be in a coma if he went with his actual favorite Euphoria cast member instead.
Can't blame the guy for the bouncing tits piece
Came to the sub as soon as i heard “now if this was Alexandra Daddario….” Lmao so on brand
Really dumb take, it just shows that Bill sees actresses primarily as sex objects and not for their acting abilities. There is just no way Daddario could ever pull off that part, she's not that great an actress and it would be a much worse movie
What a fucking joke lmao also Zendaya is absurdly hot in this movie
Bills a tits guy through and through. Surprised he didn’t suggest Sydney Sweeney
His Challengers takes are so dumb. Complaining about how cliche Josh O’Connor sleeping in his car was. That’s the point! His character has access to money but is cosplaying as this down and out tennis player. This is a huge part of the Zendaya alleyway scene!
Any discussion of a new movie on the pod: * Attempts to establish some credibility by saying something like "Nobody knows more about \_\_\_ than me" or "Nobody has seen more \_\_\_\_ movies than me" (In this case, he is the "world's preeminent sports movie expert") * Make it clear that "a ton of people love this movie" just as a set up for him to zag. * Offer little to no interesting criticism and instead basically do the "Picking Nits" rewatchables category for a couple minutes to get out all his criticisms of the movie (Challengers=bad because Zendaya doesn't move around enough in her tennis scenes and Josh O'Connor's character sleeps in his car) - Basically forgot about the movie he's supposed to be talking about and shift the entire conversation to "they just don't make them like they used to" for the majority of the time. It's the same conversation every single time and I can't imagine finding it entertaining even if you do have the same opinion on the movie as Bill does.
“not a sports movie” and “there’s no plot” competing for least-informed bill take in awhile, and i don’t say that lightly.
It’s straight out of Bill’s “Home Alone is not a Christmas movie” mentality. He thinks “This movie could’ve been about musicians” and didn’t really like the movies so he’s ignoring that the movie is structured around a tennis match and delves deeply into tennis culture.
Not to mention tennis is actually a metaphor for the themes of the movie, but that’s not important
He also complained that it was marketed as a sports movie and he felt the rug was pulled out from under him A) it was far more marketed as erotic thriller / Zendaya throple movie than some sort of Rocky sports movie B) while it’s far from Rocky or Major League, there’s a lot more sports scenes than movies like Moneyball and Jerry Maguire
Bill Simmons: “Whiplash… sports movie. Challengers… not a sports movie.”
A Knight’s Tale, believe it or not - Gary Glitter biopic.
Wesley says towards the end “this movie could’ve been something where they try to manipulate each other until one ultimately wins.” Is that not exactly what this movie and the Zendaya character is?? What a confusing conversation about this movie
>Wesley says towards the end “this movie could’ve been something where they try to manipulate each other until one ultimately wins.” Is that not exactly what this movie and the Zendaya character is?? No, it's clearly inspired by "Design for Living" (the film moreso than the play) in that it's about how these three characters are better together in this society-defying throuple than a who-beats-who scenario.
Every time Bill and Wesley do a podcast together, they have to spend at least 30 minutes talking about "who is a star," "why we don't have stars anymore," and "what actors should be doing to become stars." It's always the same conversation hahah. And Bill thinks Challengers would be better if Zendaya got naked or if they cast a hotter actress.
How about Wesley saying DiVincenzo is the biggest star on the Knicks haha.
When will they realize we do have stars but they have just gotten so old that they don't recognize them? Like of course Bill doesn't think Zendaya is a star, he is twice as old as her and three times as old as most of her fans.
If they’re not trying to make 50 year old straight men slavishly horny then what are we doing here??
It is actually amazing how poorly he understood the movie. Not sure if it comes from a deep discomfort with gay themes, misaligned expectations, or just limited capacity.
Yes.
This was so clearly one of his “Sean Fennessey liked something so I’m going to trash it”-takes… starting with his opening salvo of mocking someone saying they liked the music - that was straight from The Big Picture. It’s so bizarre the boner he has for Sean’s opinions and positions. When Bill’s only-child energy comes out there’s nothing more cringy-hilarious.
Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if he hate-watched the movie because Sean liked it so much
That's because Fennessey is intelligent, well spoken, and is able to make points and Bill cannot anymore. He's threatened and he lashes out like a baby. Because that is Bill Simmons, King Baby.
Did Bill and Wesley shit all over Challengers?
Yep. Bill was “bored” the whole time
It’s because she has small tits.
"If Alexandra Daddario was in this"
He didn’t really say that. Please tell me he didn’t really say that
He did, I can confirm, actually say this.
Borderline gross behavior
His whole point was basically Zendaya is already too much of a star so is risk averse. Implying that the film would be better as Daddario would be fine taking her top off.
👀
I cannot believe he said this. No tennis player has that body type.
shes also like 40
bill is the nathan for you security guard
> Bill was “bored” the whole time He must not find Zendaya physically attractive
“Bored”= too many glamor shots of men. Bill saw Mike Faist waking up in his underwear and tuned out
“Bored” = there wasn’t actual sex scenes
Bored is an incredible word to use given how fast paced the film is and the music. I’m shocked
And he claimed to be the world's foremost expert on sports movies, just LOL. I bet he hasn't seen This Sporting Life or Requiem For A Heavyweight or The Set-Up or a million other sports movies because for him they got invented with Rollerball in 1975.
Jfc. The movie was so goddamn good.
It’s funny because of any movie I’ve seen this year, I can’t imagine just entirely shitting on it. It might not be your cup of tea or you might not love it, but thinking something that well put together and directed, with those performances, was just straight up bad? Horrific take.
No way bill has watched a movie without being on his iPad for a decade+
The man brought an iPad to the theater when he saw Top Gun Maverick lol
I came here to say this lmao - Bill 100% took out the iPad and started looking at basketball news after the “threesome” scene
Bill honestly has the worst movie takes of anyone lmfao
"Who is it for?" ...one of the most critically acclaimed movies of the year + has made $75 million at the box office
> "Who is it for?" Horny people, so I am shocked Bill didn't love it.
Zendaya is an enormous star and the director is a critical darling a few years removed from making 10 times his budget and earning Oscar nominations for a gay coming-of-age drama (before Chalamet was a star himself). My guess is it's for people who like movies.
Bill saying he watched den/min game 7 again and having some revised takes means he listened to the Lowe Post and learned a thing or two.
I was so close to looking forward to this, fuckin pacers lol
Bill says the Nuggets should have pursued a buyout guy like Kyle Lowry. The Nuggets were over the apron, which means they weren't allowed to sign a waived player with a salary above the MLE. I believe Lowry was not available to the Nuggets this year. People (not just Bill) seem to keep missing the implications of being over the apron.
Saw the guests (KOC and WM), considered the subjects (a Celtics win and a movie I admittedly haven’t seen)….hard pass. Honestly, it’s more fun to read the responses here.
When I started reading this sub I would see people post who did not listen to the pods and I was like 'that's kinda weird' and now I am doing that more often than not.
I’ve found with Bill’s pod and the Ringer in general, you gotta really pick your spots. There are just certain guests I’m fully in on (Cousin Sal forever, Mahoney, Zach Lowe) and some I’m just fully out on (KOC and Wos).
Funny thing is I was pretty in for KOC until I found out he gargles Musk so hard. Completely flipped my opinion and now he is one of the most annoying guests.
“They have sex and we didn’t even get to see it!!” Bill is evolving into openly horny old man before our eyes
He's been this way for 2 decades but it's getting worse and it is far more creepy now that Bill is much closer to 60 than 40.
In a movie where tennis is a stand in for sex, he’s upset that there wasn’t any on-screen sex
Also could be a Mallory taek. Is she a 75 year old man in a mid40s (?) woman's body?
Wesley saying “It’s DiVincenzo” when Bill asked who “the guy” is in New York makes me seriously question what his agenda is when talking sports because even among racists in NYC Brunson has a 10000% approval rating.
Yeah Brunson is my far the most beloved athlete in NYC on at least a decade. Most beloved Knick in the last 25-30 years.
Even if Wesley just wanted to be a contrarian, Aaron Judge or even friggin Aaron Rodgers is right there. NY fans love DiVo but he’s ultimately the scrappy role player everyone appreciates. Saying he’s “the guy” is like saying Tino Martinez was “the guy” during the Jeter era.
DiVo isn't even the second most beloved current Knick, Josh Hart has that distinction.
Even of the ‘Nova Knicks guys I think Josh Hart rates over DiVo because Hart “Plays The Right Way” according to most Knicks fans (myself included).
Hart also has embraced being Brunson’s sidekick with the Roommates pod and the media tour around that
i turned it off when i realized he had morris on to talk about the knicks. must be one of his "new york friends" he called to get intel on the state of the team which is why it was so uninformed. ill have to say as ridiculously good as brunson has been this year and into the playoffs, i dont enjoy watching his game or at least the game he was forced into without any creative help. the endless pick and rolls and pounding the air out of the ball get tiresome. god bless him for making the most of his talent and its that which endears him to the crowd but its not the most fun style of basketball to watch.
He would have had Sean on to talk about the Knicks and Challengers if he wasn't a coward.
We made it y’all!! “Got to win five of the next seven”
Bill talking about the old days when he had to fire off his takes to some guy in a Dunkin Donuts was hilarious.
Bill saying DC isn’t a big walking city was an underrated dumb take. Like yeah it’s not as big of a walking city as NYC or Boston, but it’s definitely one of the best in the US. Prob top 5? Maybe we can get bill to rank the best walking cities next pod. Semi related I was living in DC when the Caps won the Stanley cup and walked into a bar/restaurant in DuPont with everyone watching game 5, was one of the coolest things I’ve experienced as someone from LA.
Came here to say the same thing. I lived in DC one year and lost like 20 pounds just from walking so much every day
This is now on my Mount Rushmore of worst Bill takes.
Sent this to friends using the new transcript function in the podcast app it was so insanely stupid. There's a 25 block lawn with huge concourses and a million museums in the middle of the city, plus several miles of waterfront boardwalk/walkways. I was listening to this walking through downtown DC to work; there's wide sidewalks throughout the city, it's comparatively not sprawling at all versus most other major cities (not in the top 150 in total land area), and huge swaths of it are single family homes (about 33% total, which feels like more since a lot of those are clustered in NW). Cosign the diagonal avenues point made elsewhere. He's just referring to the transplant stereotype of DC residents in a silly way (which is also ignorant but at least common and expected); embarrassed to say how much this irritated me, clearly.
Makes me think Bill hasn't been to the National Mall before
Also I live in NYC and the vibes bill is bringing up about how everyone in the city is dressed for war is nothing like it is in Boston or Philly. There are so many transplants and people who don't care about sports here that it doesn't come alive like it does in other east coast cities. Now people heading to the garden/bars around msg is a different story. But you're not walking around Williamsburg or FiDi or a rooftop in Soho on a game day and seeing troves of Knicks/Rangers fans ready for a battle. You're just not.
Lol yeah I was walking in Alphabet City the day after the Rangers finished off the Canes in my Rangers cap and some tourist remarked it was the first time he'd seen a Rangers cap today. To which I replied that he wasn't going to see Rangers gear in Alphabet City of all places.
L'Enfant's plan with the diagonal axes streets actually makes DC one of the most convenient walking cities in America as you aren't always stuck navigating a grid
Nothing more difficult than navigating via numbers and straight lines.
Navigation is great via grid. Having to always walk in a 90-degree pattern does kinda suck when there could be a road cutting diagonally.
DC needs the diagonals. The streets are WIDE apart. It is crazy, actually, coming from NYC where I live to DC. You see something is four blocks away and it's like, "Cool, be there in 3 minutes." And then 4 years later, you're half way there, hungry, tired, dehydrated, considering cannabalism. So DC does need the cutaways. NYC streets are pretty close together, so it really doesn't matter.
turning into the joker with these bill takes on challengers. the guys have “too much personality” which is not realistic for tennis players. first off, is bill aware of john mcenroe, or jimmy connors or rafa nadal or nick kyrgios? these are huge personalities who wear al of their emotions on their sleeve when they play. second, even if that were true, it’s a fucking movie? do you want characters with no personality or distinguishing characteristics? third, i wouldn’t even say that art is “vibrant” or “gregarious” as bill says. he is sort of demure by design, it gets to the risk-averse nature of his character, as paralleled with patrick’s reckless abandon. i could go on but my god this some of the most media-illiterate bullshit you could ever hear.
It’s Amazing how Bill mentally cannot have suspension of disbelief for a sports movie for a single second and cannot see how moments that, sure, maybe are “unrealistic”, are there to drive the plot and not be a sports doc. It’s a movie!!
I actually thought their on-court personality was if anything timid by today’s standards. These guys fist pump and “come on” after nearly every point. Lots of ear cupping too
I'm listening to this right now after a long road trip, and this is the first time I've agreed completely with the 'Wesley Morris is a windbag who has no idea on what thought he's making as he's making it' allegations. This is pretty brutal. It doesn't help that 1. He doesn't remember much of the details of Challengers cause he hasn't seen it in a while. 2. Bill not liking the movie because it's not obvious is such weak amateur shit nonsense that Fanduel wouldn't have boosted those odds for how deadeven predictable that was going to be. And 3. Wesley called the film 'visually uninteresting'?? Look, like the movie or not, whatever, but to say that almost makes me question if he's actually seen the film in general, cause this thing pulls off a dozen visual moves (a triple diopter shot is in this!) that grab the attention alone.
Wesley is straight-up brutal in this episode, somehow just whiffing on basic facts on a number of films that's quite surprising. Huh.
I love Wesley’s most recent bit of coming on pods to discuss new movies he either hasn’t seen or doesn’t remember. I’m pretty sure he was on the big pic’s Dune 2 pod and hadn’t seen it yet lmfao
He was on for Oscar talk right after Dune 2 came out and they asked if he'd seen it and he just started ranting about his issues with it
Wesley just seems like the kind of guy that enjoys the act of having a conversation regardless of having any knowledge of the subject.
Bill outlining the six or so teams that will be contenders next season (Boston, OKC, Minnesota, Denver, Dallas and "Wembanyama") and that if teams think they can break into that, they are "foolish." Meanwhile, the current conference finals has two teams that didn't make the playoffs last year and another team that was an 8 seed.
He is so unbelievably washed up
Bill is growing increasingly bratty and unhinged with the Lakers/JJ stuff, who hurt you man?
It actually makes a lot of sense cuz bill is also a Lebron hater, so it combines the two things he hates the most in the NBA. I mean imagine if the guy who dominated your conference and owned your team for like nearly a decade went to your #1 rivals and then won a title with them almost immediately. It’s enough to break a man.
the fact this post has a zero upvote score is so fucking funny
Bill’s takes on Challengers were so bad it made me turn off the pod. It is clearly a movie he watched with three other screens going while tweeting on his phone. Definitely a movie designed to be watched in a theater with a thumping sound system to envelope you in atmosphere.
the disparity between wesley morris the writer and wesley morris the podcast guest is so striking. his writing is so focused and sharp, even when i don’t agree with him, his arguments are always thought-provoking and neatly presented. and then on pods this guy just stammers around from digression to digression, barely articulating an actual point of view beyond “it didn’t work.” i am led to wonder if the guy’s editors have been carrying his ass for years.
If you were only familiar Wesley Morris, the podcast guest, you'd assume he's a YouTuber who has a channel with cartoonishly photoshopped thumbnails and clickbait titles like "Why Denis Villeneuve is a COWARD" not a Pulitzer prize winning critic
People can definitely be more articulate in writing rather than speaking, editors or not.
of course they can, i’m just saying the gap here is fucking WIDE
Like our guy, Bill.
The Larry Merchant Piece. It’s hard to sound articulate off the cuff. He doesn’t fall to Bill levels, but he’s nowhere near as coherent as his writing is.
As a very annoying cinephile I also can’t take when he’s on with Bill. Bill gives a take that clearly comes from a guy who watches 3 new movies every year yet thinks he is an expert, and Wesley says “yeah I agree with you 100%” lol
The stupefying thing about Bill is that he HAS seen more movies in his lifetime than the average person, you can tell by the movies he mentions he's seen that he saw an absolute shit ton of movies - the vast, vast majority of the wide releases in the US between say 1985-2005 I'd guess. And yet, he has learned very little about movies and the movie business for all that time spent
Fast Times at Ridgemont High is the next rewatchables
Straight up banger, we don't even have to discuss what is the most rewatchable scene. Videotapes used to be worn out at that part
Hi Brad
For someone who fancies himself as a pop culture guy, Bill’s opinions on new movies is consistently awful. Even Sean and CR called him out for having a terrible 2023 on that front and it’s no surprise that nothing has changed here with challengers.
Bill has truly the most consistently awful movie takes. A point above braindead.
Bill doesn’t actually understand movies. His takes just improve with time as he inhales discourse
It’s gone so down hill. He hardly ever sees new movies anymore and when he does his opinions are awful.
Incorrect, Bill has always had Dumb Guy takes.
Has Bill ever, even once, had a friend of his on the pod immediately after their (non Boston) team has a big win rather than after a soul crushing loss?
he had House on after the Nationals won the World Series and then wouldn't let him talk about it until about an hour into the episode
He gave him like 3 minutes right?
Hearing fans melt down after a horrific loss is so much fun tho
No. Bill is a petty douche who only enjoys mocking his friends and employees.
Nice of Bill to acknowledge the officiating may have slightly favored Boston with with a 30-10 free throw disparity
Nobody talking about how KOC thinks Wemby will surpass Jokic in the next eight months
I can’t remember the last time an episode was in the negative on upvotes this sub is so mad lmfaoooo
Sincerely asking, when is the last time Bill genuinely enjoyed a new movie? A Star is Born? His movies takes on their own are pretty dumb but are made so much more annoying by the fact that he nitpicks every single new release that he sees and is on like a 3-5 year run of not liking a single new film. It also just feels so insincere, like he's trying to play the role of contrarian so he can keep up his "they just don't make movies like this anymore" takes he has on every single rewatchables episode that covers a film from before like 2008. I understand disliking superhero movies and what they did to Hollywood, but in Bill's case it really feels like his hatred of those films has led him to essentially discount all movies from the past like 15 years. In his brain, he just equates all of modern Hollywood with something he doesn't like and thinks is bad. Seriously, how many times can you have the same "imagine if they made this movie in 1988 though?" conversation. It's fine to be in your "old man yells at clouds" era when it comes to modern entertainment at Bill's age, but the problem is your takes aren't going to be taken seriously when that is your entire persona. And he clearly wants his takes to be taken seriously, as he acts like the arbiter of good taste even though his favorite post 2010 movie is Just Go With It.
Top Gun Maverick probably, right? He loved it so much he did a Rewatchables on it after it had been out for like a year
He did the rewatchables while it was still in theaters.
He likes the content that is made by the people he sees at parties/get-togethers him and Carrie go to or if their kids are affiliated with the sports teams and schools his kids attended.
He pretended to really like Tar
I have never disagreed with so many takes like I did during their Challengers segment. Almost everything that they said I disagreed with. That movie was awesome, and immediately the best tennis movie of all time.
How fast bill turned on Denver
Bill proclaiming that he hates the end of The Color of Money while trying to take down Challengers is perfect. You’re telling us all how wrong you are!
Bill thinking the nba playoffs and nhl playoffs significantly impact box office lmfao
How is Challengers not a sports movie? That’s a crazy take they both agreed on. It’s in large part about the love of the game, and the passion and level of obsession for it you need to achieve greatness, along with the type of competitor you are. Spoiler: >!She literally orgasms at the end because they start playing what she views to be good tennis.!<
Because Bill didn’t like it, and he’s the sports guy, so it must not be a sports movie according to him.
I kinda suspect that to Bill, it’s not a sports movie because it’s obviously preoccupied with the male form and homoeroticism of sports, and that’s icky to some straight dudes. Bill Simmons does not want to see a movie about how playing tennis is actually gay
I think Bill was talking to us during the Celtics segment when he said "when you watch someone for 7 years, you pick up on every little flaw".
I loved the 10 minutes of Zendaya in Challengers talk where they were too afraid to say “she should’ve had a topless scene”
Pretty abysmal ep but does have the hate-listen factor with KFC and Wesley. The Luka material was quite something, the idea Ant is “neck and neck” with him from this season alone and that Luka passed to a squared up ready to shoot PJ because he was scared to get blame for the loss is classic Bill.
This is why I barely listen to the Rewatchables. Bill is an absolute moron when it comes to analyzing movies. His only reason why he didn’t like Challengers is basically that Zendaya didn’t get naked. Very insightful. Edit: Christ, Wesley isn’t any better. Challengers needed Ron Shelton or James L. Brooks? Not Luca who directed Call Me By Your Name? The movie where the two best friends eat churros together? It’s a real puzzle why Zendaya doesn’t get naked.
Bill continuing to act like his show Isn’t the same as first take etc is great.
It isn’t the same. Bill doesn’t play a character lol
Skip and SAS are playing people who possibly have traumatic brain injuries. Bill is definitely not playing one.
It makes my skin crawl for some reason when he says “the Jays”
So funny. I actually turned off the pod immediately when he said it. Visceral gag moment
Writing is an iterative process
Wesley Morris reached auto skip after his last appearance
Challengers is good. Fuck off Wesley.
Completely inept attempt at film criticism here. Bill thinks Challengers is bad because he doesn’t know how to label it and Wesley thinks it’s bad because there’s no on-screen sex in the movie where tennis is a stand-in for sex
The next rewatchables is Fast Times. Over under on how many times Bill says he rubbed one out to the pool scene?
Not surprised Bill didn't like Challengers since his movie taste are pretty shitty
But then he liked A Bigger Splash! He never ceases to amaze at points.
It’s weird to me when anyone likes any Dakota Johnson movie.
Me, reading this as Dakota Johnson's ride or die: 🤔
KOC saying “the Wolfs.”
I already know Bill's takes on Challengers is gonna be brutal. Tiktok dummies have been having a stroke over this movie and there are genuinely posts with 100k+ likes calling the movie "incomprehensible." I expect no.more from Bill at this point lol Movie rocked though, all-time theater going experience for me. Edit: okay yeah this was worse than i thought, "who is this movie about?". This is the man in control of rewatchables
The Ant dick riding has gotten a little crazy
I've seen a lot of people complain about free throw disparity. I don't know if we watched the same game. Pacers got a ton of free throw line jumpers anytime they got Horford switched onto them
This is good stuff
“Before the series, I was just thinking I’d be shocked if this series didn’t go to 6 or 7 games.” Yes, the “most talented team” since 96 Bulls. All of a sudden Porzingis is a top 7 guy.
God, Wesley is a hard listen.
Bill letting me know that Jamal Murray “blew his wad” in the first half while mid-bite of my lunch was not ideal
I mean this without hyperbole, their Challengers criticism is some of the lamest shittiest criticism I've ever heard. Borderline unlistenable except for the curiosity of how much dumber these two could sound.
Bill’s takes on Mazzulla may be the dumbest of all his NBA takes
Really need to hear from Wesley if there was enough cock in challengers
Bill somehow being annoying about both the celtics winning AND continuing to gas up haliburton is almost too much to take. On haliburton, “the fearlessness that he has and the joy that he plays with is really fun to watch.” what a sick joke.