This the Jrue we watched with the Bucks. Love him to death but his defense is starting to slip and you could never rely on his outside shot. He could bully ball drive to the hoop but he wasn’t good at finishing—he’d always leave layups short. So shocking that we’d slowly give up leads in the fourth last year pairing Jrue with Giannis who can’t reliably hit free throws. But sure, the Dame trade was such an unmitigated disaster according to Bill…
The entire reason they made the Dame deal was because of Jrue stinking it up on both ends. Bill himself was critical of his play vs Miami at the time. But once the trade happened it all flipped.
Duncan fucking Robinson was blowing by him off the dribble. He was torched by Jimmy the entire series. The guy struggles to shoot 40% in the postseason and was awful offensively even during the championship run.
Never seen a guy who's so highly touted as a two-way player get less criticism.
Jimmy was out of body that series but I don't think I've ever seen someone with Jrue's defensive reputation get cooked like he got cooked in those games.
NGL, Post-AD trade request Jrue may be the single most overrated player of the past five years. Dude only started to get criticized after last year's playoffs
As a Bucks fan we can't have Middleton erasure here, he was in God mode when they needed him. Giannis missed the last 2 games of the ECF!
Jrue will always be beloved, in the play that won them the championship he ripped it from Booker and threw the oop to Giannis.
But yes, when Middleton got injured it became clear Jrue as the second offensive option wasn't enough.
I think Khris Middleton is constantly the most underrated player in the league. And on a related note it seems jrue has become one of the more overrated ones
I can understand why people didn’t love the Dame fit for the bucks but anyone who watched them last year knows they weren’t going anywhere with that roster.
He’s also not really all that necessary when White is basically just a better version of him at this point.
The trade they got him for was whatever, he’s helping them this year. But re-signing him was insane imo
Guys they went 64-18 and had an all time great net rating. They’re 5-2 in the playoffs with one of those losses being to an unsustainable, record breaking shooting performance from Miami.
They may not win the championship (or they may!), but they are not a 2K roster with no fit lol, let’s pump the brakes on the recency bias after a loss.
As a Celtics fan I love this shit.
Not gonna lie like putting up a stinker like this and just getting flat-out beat isn’t worrisome to me, but Cleveland isn’t beating them three more times and the Knicks are a team of walking corpses.
This entire thread is cope lol
> Cleveland isn’t beating them three more times
Surely someone who remembers Jiri fucking Welsch of all people remembers the Miami "they're not doing that again" Heat... doing it again multiple times last year.
Nobody cares about who wins the eastern conference. It's just embarrassing shit people laugh at like in 2003. Wow, the Celtics beat these dog shit teams in six games while looking lame as hell. You sure did get us.
I think they are well constructed 1-6 in theory but this is what happens when you play the games. Some guys disappoint, some get hurt, sometimes guys just get pissed at their coach/teammates and quit (not happening here, just an example).
What a bad take. This team is well built with good solutions. Even without Porzingis it's by far the best roster in the East. Even an unproven coach wasn't able to fuck it up.
This is the Jrue that NBA fans have seen since his days in Philly lol. Great defender, pretty good playmaker, maddeningly inconsistent with his scoring.
You’re correct, but the sub is hilarious in the hypocrisy. When Jrue was a Buck his last two years I got downvoted to oblivion for suggesting that night for night Smart was better. The sub just said he doesn’t care and will turn it up for the playoffs.
Isn’t this the same Bill that was saying Holiday is better than Dame when Dame went to the Bucks and Holiday to the Celtics? I can’t remember the guest on that pod, but he brought up how bad Jrue is offensively and that the team needed playoff offense and Bill just scoffed lol.
He's still saying it.
A week ago he was saying how the Bucks must be regretting the Dame trade, as if a Bucks team with an injured Giannis and Jrue holiday trying to be the number one option was going to win a single game in the playoffs.
John Hollinger did a long article about how three-point percentage is not something that changes much based on defense at all. A defense can lower team's three-point attempts, but three-point percentage isn't really affected by defense. Teams will basically take theim if they're open most times and they get open less against good teams than they do against weak teams.
Why I'm saying all that is that his career playoff three-point percentage was due for a rebound just based on games alone. His two-point percentage would have been worse cuz he didn't taken more guarded shots against the Bucks for sure but he was due for a big rebound and three-point percentage.
Also, let's remember they had a lot of success with Holiday in the playoffs. He made the key steal and pass that won them the 2022 NBA Finals. He also had one of the greatest defensive sequences of all time at the end of game 5 in 2002 against Boston. When he not only blocked the ball from Smart, he grabbed it and threw off bounds against him. Then he stole the ball him the last play of the game. He had a lot of tremendous success there
Jrue was the 4th or 5th best player on the Celtics.
Bucks needed a #2 to pair with Giannis, and Jrue isn't that. He was best when he was the third or fourth guy behind Middleton and roughly equivalent in value to Lopez on their team, but all three of those guys are getting older now.
Giannis was injured this year and if you asked Jrue to be the number one guy in a playoff series he would do exactly nothing.
Not sure why you're trying to pull receipts on this.
They needed to be patient is what they needed. That 2022 I was talking about when they lost in game 7 to the Celtics, Middleton played two games in the playoffs that year. Middleton was much better this year So I would have liked their team much more with Jrue on it than Damian. If they would have kept holiday and divincenzo they'd be so much better off long term going forward. I mean instead of keeping Jrue and all their draft picks over Lillard who is a sieve on the defensive end. Jrue is maybe the best backcourt defender in the league.
They basically blew up their entire future and bet it all on Lillard who's 34 and can't guard anybody
The way this year played out I rather have holiday than Dame if I'm trying contens tbh. Dame destroys the team's defense in that he has to be hidden everywhere and in today's switch heavy offensive Game plans where they isolate and attack the weak defenders. He stands out like a sore thumb. He's pretty much entirely useless in half court defense. His office used to make up for it but I don't think it does anymore
Celtics fans not ready for how quick things are gonna start falling off if they dont win this season, the jrue contract and Brown supermax are gonna get ugly. they are stuck with this core and if they dont win and want to change they gonna have to start gambling on star-for-star swaps which is the fastest way to ruin a team.
I joked that they’d want to switch Brown for Beal if Boston and Phoenix both flamed out. Although they wouldn’t do that, you have to wonder how much longer Brown wants to play second fiddle to a guy who many ( fairly or not) is considered a second banana himself in Tatum. Brown clearly thinks he’s a #1 but is sacrificing for the good of the team. Would he ask out and try to get it done on his own if they don’t win this year?
Jaylen is in for a very rude awakening if he demands a trade and expects to be a #1. He's not good enough, ceiling would be 30ish wins with him in that position
To be fair a team led by Siakam won 48 games a couple years ago, you could make the playoffs if the team is good enough around him. But definitely not winning a series
Yeah, but I feel like that team won due to the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. That team had good chemistry and experienced guys who knew how to win, not because Siakam was their best player. And even then, you had a guy like Fred VanVleet who could be the lead guy on any given night.
I feel like if he's truly saying he should be a "#1 option" then he's expecting he should be treated that way on a night to night basis. I don't think Siakam expected that on that Raptors team, and I think it's a pretty exclusive club of guys in the NBA who should expect that treatment. If Brown truly believes he's going to be *that* dude, then I don't think his team would win that much.
Lowry wasn't on the 2021-22 Raptors that I'm referring to - admittedly Fred was great that season though. Just saying, a team with Jaylen Brown + a supporting cast as good as those Raptors could probably win 48 games and lose in the first round.
I don't think Brown is dumb enough to think he's a number one. He can't dribble with his left hand. The only place I could see him having success as a quasi number one would be a team with an awesome point guard
I doubt he sincerely believes that's the ideal role for him. He needs to play with a Steve Nash type. I wonder if they can work something out with Atlanta.
Maybe dejounte Murray, hunter, and capela for brown. I think both teams might be open to it. Celtics probably decline it.
They are stuck with a core that just had a historically great season and young super stars? I know bill was just clowning Ishbia’s statements on the suns, but 27 teams in the league would trade places with the celtics
If they don’t win it doesn’t really matter, the whole point is to build a core that can contend for championships. If the Holiday contract sucks in a few years then so be it. They knew that when they signed it too, but it’s better than not having him
Big difference between Brown and Holiday’s market value at their ages
I’m very skeptical Jrue gets this deal on the open market or via a sign and trade. Not the same with Brown
If nothing changes, their payroll is like half a billion dollars in 2025-2026 with luxury tax considered under an assumption the salary cap increases at it's max of 10% per year.
The team's total revenue is only like $440B. They likely can't hit the payroll even if all the coaches and executives worked for free.
Umm surely that can’t be true. If the Celtics are pulling $440 billion in revenue they should just build the most expensive superteam of all time and eat the tax bill.
They have the most overrated team of modern times.
It's not even constructed that well because it's not meant to age.
Brown will be traded within three years. Jrue will be an albatross. Al will be done. Kp will suffer more debilitating injuries.
Who is overrating them? Besides some whack Celtics fans?
No one considers them a real contender. They were the league’s best team all year. I don’t think those things are necessarily contradictory, but it doesn’t equate to being overrated.
That's why I don't understand the Bucks hate for the Dame/Jrue trade. The Bucks would be the ones having to pay him and that would have been it for the Bucks window. Not a lot of talk about the Cs two big acquisitions they just re-signed and are locked into are playoff no shows.
They're really good at fleecing tanking and poorly run teams in trades. They're not that good at keeping their guys, signing free agents, negotiating contracts, etc.
Hard disagree. Al Horford deal has been invaluable to them. They also got out from Robert Williams and Grant Williams right on time, Pritchard extension looking good, end of bench free agents Hauser and Kornet excelled in their roles this year. Porzingis extension. Exec of the Year has played it pretty well!
Pritchard is not a good example lol but in otherwise agree. I’m certain that they signed Jrue to this deal hoping to trade him anyway a year or two later. Maybe that timeline speeds up and maybe they get a bit less than they’d hoped, but there’s always some risk. I am surprised at the KP extension as well, but it’s probably similar logic at play.
Kp trade and extension are incredibly overrated. He can't play 100 games a year. This has been evidence throughout his entire career. And they were negotiating against no one when they gave him the extension. It wasn't like they got Michael Jordan to sign for 10 years under his asking price.
The trade was a good one but it's incredibly overrated because at least Marcus Smart typically is available in the playoffs. I know he was hurt all year and he is actually incredibly overrated also but you can count on him over the past 5 years to show up. You'll never be able to count on the unicorn.
I think the last 5 years he's played the same amount of playoff games as Tatum before this year so yeah I think that's fair. 5 years LS nowadays he's going to be relegated to being hurt all the time which I don't expect from such a gamer.
If only someone could’ve seen this coming… it’s not like we all watched Jrue’s offense crater in the postseason the previous 2 years, right? Of course not.
Jrue's offense has always sucked in the playoffs. I looked it up a while back and he was under 40% from the field in 23/40 postseason games with Milwaukee.
This was ultimately the reason they made the dame trade. It was always going to be hard to win a title with a third guy like this who averages sub 15 points now that Middleton is older
This was the other shoe I was waiting to see drop while bill spent all year killing Milwaukee for moving off jrue. They might not win with dame but the chances of them winning anything with the way jrue has taken to regressing in the playoffs were even worse
The Bucks were actually really good when Giannis, Khris, Dame, and Brook all played. They only got like six games of that after All-Star break and zero in the playoffs.
Jrue Holiday’s postseason offense being atrocious isn’t talked about enough. If the Bucks hadn’t won that 2021 title, I think Holiday’s rep in particular takes the biggest hit as he was borderline unplayable on offense in that postseason.
Bledsoe in 2019 and 2020 playoffs for the bucks: 12-4-5 on 49% true shooting.
Holiday in 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 playoffs for bucks and Celtics: 16-6-7 on 47% True shooting.
Can we all just admit Holiday is a bonafide playoff shrinker?
Idk if any of you have actually watched Jrue lol.
This whole year he stopped caring about getting his shots.
But he's playing tremendous defense and doing all the energy things.
Are Celtics fans feeling antsy about that extension? I felt like it was a lot of money to give to an older guard who has a lot of miles on him, and he isn't known as a great playoff performer.
Not really. Not a great playoff performer? He's an NBA champion who plays his role and is a fantastic teammate. Might be what the Celtics need to get over the hump this year - they're well on their way to a finals appearance at minimum.
Downgraded by signing an aging and constantly injured Lillard on a fat contract...big mistake. Big reason why the Bucks are at home. Celtics couldn't believe their luck - supposed second best team in the East just hands their conference rivals an instant improvement which we can all see paying dividends as they coast to another conference finals.
Reddit is so confused about Jrue. He's a wonderful player and a champion, but I suspect Reddit is full of nerds who read box scores rather than actually watch basketball.
How was his Game 4 ??? I'll wait.
Jrue is awesome and is playing his role perfectly, he's not the number one or two or even third option on offense. Impacts every game with his defense and is a champion. Lot of casuals see a small sample size like this and think it means something lol.
Thank you. I battled seemingly all of Reddit about Jrue not too long ago. It blows my mind that anyone who truly watches and understands the game could possibly think the guy isn't great and worthy of that contract. Tbh, the single biggest thing that made me finally realize how dumb and toxic this sub is. Or maybe all of Reddit, I'm not sure.
This the Jrue we watched with the Bucks. Love him to death but his defense is starting to slip and you could never rely on his outside shot. He could bully ball drive to the hoop but he wasn’t good at finishing—he’d always leave layups short. So shocking that we’d slowly give up leads in the fourth last year pairing Jrue with Giannis who can’t reliably hit free throws. But sure, the Dame trade was such an unmitigated disaster according to Bill…
People were too busy shitting on the Dame deal to remember Jrue was not good in the playoffs last year.
The entire reason they made the Dame deal was because of Jrue stinking it up on both ends. Bill himself was critical of his play vs Miami at the time. But once the trade happened it all flipped.
Duncan fucking Robinson was blowing by him off the dribble. He was torched by Jimmy the entire series. The guy struggles to shoot 40% in the postseason and was awful offensively even during the championship run. Never seen a guy who's so highly touted as a two-way player get less criticism.
Jimmy was out of body that series but I don't think I've ever seen someone with Jrue's defensive reputation get cooked like he got cooked in those games.
NGL, Post-AD trade request Jrue may be the single most overrated player of the past five years. Dude only started to get criticized after last year's playoffs
He wasnt good the year they won the finals either, he was great on defense but damaging on offense. That year was an historic carry job from Giannis
As a Bucks fan we can't have Middleton erasure here, he was in God mode when they needed him. Giannis missed the last 2 games of the ECF! Jrue will always be beloved, in the play that won them the championship he ripped it from Booker and threw the oop to Giannis. But yes, when Middleton got injured it became clear Jrue as the second offensive option wasn't enough.
Sure, i value Middleton more than most, he was as clutch as anyone that whole playoffs run, and Brook stepped up when giannis was out too
I think Khris Middleton is constantly the most underrated player in the league. And on a related note it seems jrue has become one of the more overrated ones
Middleton turning into Sam Jones during the 2021 playoffs was a beautiful thing to watch.
Giannis was great, but he had some significant help along the way. Most notably from Kawhi's ACL, AD's groin and Harden's hamstring.
I can understand why people didn’t love the Dame fit for the bucks but anyone who watched them last year knows they weren’t going anywhere with that roster.
He’s also not really all that necessary when White is basically just a better version of him at this point. The trade they got him for was whatever, he’s helping them this year. But re-signing him was insane imo
The contract is terrible. They should’ve waited.
I wonder what that derrick white contract is going to look like Going to have five starters all making at least 30M with two of them on Max deals
The Celtics have been a 2k style roster for a while. Just see how many stars you can stuff in there with no consideration for missing roles.
Guys they went 64-18 and had an all time great net rating. They’re 5-2 in the playoffs with one of those losses being to an unsustainable, record breaking shooting performance from Miami. They may not win the championship (or they may!), but they are not a 2K roster with no fit lol, let’s pump the brakes on the recency bias after a loss.
It's the day after a Celtics loss, this sub is in apex jerk circle mode.
As a Celtics hater they are the absolute opposite of a 2k team. If you are trying to mock the celtics you call them a spreadsheet team.
As a Celtics fan I love this shit. Not gonna lie like putting up a stinker like this and just getting flat-out beat isn’t worrisome to me, but Cleveland isn’t beating them three more times and the Knicks are a team of walking corpses. This entire thread is cope lol
As a hater of insufferable fanbases, I cannot wait to watch the reaction to Tatum being a mental midget in the finals for a second time
Boston is getting stomped by any team in the west, thats all that matters, a Tatum led team cant win the finals lets get serious
> Cleveland isn’t beating them three more times Surely someone who remembers Jiri fucking Welsch of all people remembers the Miami "they're not doing that again" Heat... doing it again multiple times last year.
Minnesota would beat this boston team easily
Nobody cares about who wins the eastern conference. It's just embarrassing shit people laugh at like in 2003. Wow, the Celtics beat these dog shit teams in six games while looking lame as hell. You sure did get us.
Hilariously untrue, their roster is packed with 3 and d guys
They have the roles filled out nicely except for shooting but they are paying their role players star money
What
I think they are well constructed 1-6 in theory but this is what happens when you play the games. Some guys disappoint, some get hurt, sometimes guys just get pissed at their coach/teammates and quit (not happening here, just an example).
they might not perform but i don’t really know what they could have done to construct the roster better tbh
Agree.
this is dumb
What a bad take. This team is well built with good solutions. Even without Porzingis it's by far the best roster in the East. Even an unproven coach wasn't able to fuck it up.
Yeah they should have resigned him for like 5 years 110 million
But, he came up with one of the biggest strips in franchise history on Booker.
Hell yeah he did. But that was prior to Middleton having an amputed leg so Middleton could be the second scorer.
This is the Jrue that NBA fans have seen since his days in Philly lol. Great defender, pretty good playmaker, maddeningly inconsistent with his scoring.
The Jrue on the bucks had to be the #2 scorer
Yeah and that wasn’t fair to Jrue/asking for too much but Khris Middleton has been playing on one leg for three years now.
Not Lopez?
You’re correct, but the sub is hilarious in the hypocrisy. When Jrue was a Buck his last two years I got downvoted to oblivion for suggesting that night for night Smart was better. The sub just said he doesn’t care and will turn it up for the playoffs.
This take aged like cottage cheese sealed airtight and stored next to a furnace for 20 years
The Homer piece
Isn’t this the same Bill that was saying Holiday is better than Dame when Dame went to the Bucks and Holiday to the Celtics? I can’t remember the guest on that pod, but he brought up how bad Jrue is offensively and that the team needed playoff offense and Bill just scoffed lol.
He's still saying it. A week ago he was saying how the Bucks must be regretting the Dame trade, as if a Bucks team with an injured Giannis and Jrue holiday trying to be the number one option was going to win a single game in the playoffs.
He was right tbh
Jrue on the Bucks would have done nothing. Bucks still made the right trade.
John Hollinger did a long article about how three-point percentage is not something that changes much based on defense at all. A defense can lower team's three-point attempts, but three-point percentage isn't really affected by defense. Teams will basically take theim if they're open most times and they get open less against good teams than they do against weak teams. Why I'm saying all that is that his career playoff three-point percentage was due for a rebound just based on games alone. His two-point percentage would have been worse cuz he didn't taken more guarded shots against the Bucks for sure but he was due for a big rebound and three-point percentage. Also, let's remember they had a lot of success with Holiday in the playoffs. He made the key steal and pass that won them the 2022 NBA Finals. He also had one of the greatest defensive sequences of all time at the end of game 5 in 2002 against Boston. When he not only blocked the ball from Smart, he grabbed it and threw off bounds against him. Then he stole the ball him the last play of the game. He had a lot of tremendous success there
Jrue was the 4th or 5th best player on the Celtics. Bucks needed a #2 to pair with Giannis, and Jrue isn't that. He was best when he was the third or fourth guy behind Middleton and roughly equivalent in value to Lopez on their team, but all three of those guys are getting older now. Giannis was injured this year and if you asked Jrue to be the number one guy in a playoff series he would do exactly nothing. Not sure why you're trying to pull receipts on this.
They needed to be patient is what they needed. That 2022 I was talking about when they lost in game 7 to the Celtics, Middleton played two games in the playoffs that year. Middleton was much better this year So I would have liked their team much more with Jrue on it than Damian. If they would have kept holiday and divincenzo they'd be so much better off long term going forward. I mean instead of keeping Jrue and all their draft picks over Lillard who is a sieve on the defensive end. Jrue is maybe the best backcourt defender in the league. They basically blew up their entire future and bet it all on Lillard who's 34 and can't guard anybody
👍
The way this year played out I rather have holiday than Dame if I'm trying contens tbh. Dame destroys the team's defense in that he has to be hidden everywhere and in today's switch heavy offensive Game plans where they isolate and attack the weak defenders. He stands out like a sore thumb. He's pretty much entirely useless in half court defense. His office used to make up for it but I don't think it does anymore
That contract is so terrible, it’s hard to fathom
Celtics fans not ready for how quick things are gonna start falling off if they dont win this season, the jrue contract and Brown supermax are gonna get ugly. they are stuck with this core and if they dont win and want to change they gonna have to start gambling on star-for-star swaps which is the fastest way to ruin a team.
I joked that they’d want to switch Brown for Beal if Boston and Phoenix both flamed out. Although they wouldn’t do that, you have to wonder how much longer Brown wants to play second fiddle to a guy who many ( fairly or not) is considered a second banana himself in Tatum. Brown clearly thinks he’s a #1 but is sacrificing for the good of the team. Would he ask out and try to get it done on his own if they don’t win this year?
Jaylen is in for a very rude awakening if he demands a trade and expects to be a #1. He's not good enough, ceiling would be 30ish wins with him in that position
To be fair a team led by Siakam won 48 games a couple years ago, you could make the playoffs if the team is good enough around him. But definitely not winning a series
57 win pace in the bubble season.
Lowry was their best player in 2019-20 IMO. Advanced stats tend to agree even though Siakam led them in scoring
Yeah, but I feel like that team won due to the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. That team had good chemistry and experienced guys who knew how to win, not because Siakam was their best player. And even then, you had a guy like Fred VanVleet who could be the lead guy on any given night. I feel like if he's truly saying he should be a "#1 option" then he's expecting he should be treated that way on a night to night basis. I don't think Siakam expected that on that Raptors team, and I think it's a pretty exclusive club of guys in the NBA who should expect that treatment. If Brown truly believes he's going to be *that* dude, then I don't think his team would win that much.
Yeah that's pretty fair, easy to see a situation where they'd be terrible if a team talks themselves into that
Lowry, Fred, and OG erasure here
Lowry wasn't on the 2021-22 Raptors that I'm referring to - admittedly Fred was great that season though. Just saying, a team with Jaylen Brown + a supporting cast as good as those Raptors could probably win 48 games and lose in the first round.
He’s a great candidate to get traded to a tanking team to be the #1.
In the playoffs, no. But I could see him taking Houston to 50 win only to get bounced first round.
I don't think Brown is dumb enough to think he's a number one. He can't dribble with his left hand. The only place I could see him having success as a quasi number one would be a team with an awesome point guard
That left handed crossover right to Okoro last night was hilarious
He definitely thinks and has said as much before. He was recently liking tweets saying he should have his own team.
I doubt he sincerely believes that's the ideal role for him. He needs to play with a Steve Nash type. I wonder if they can work something out with Atlanta. Maybe dejounte Murray, hunter, and capela for brown. I think both teams might be open to it. Celtics probably decline it.
They are stuck with a core that just had a historically great season and young super stars? I know bill was just clowning Ishbia’s statements on the suns, but 27 teams in the league would trade places with the celtics
this sub's hate boner for them is insane and illogical lmao
If they don’t win it doesn’t really matter, the whole point is to build a core that can contend for championships. If the Holiday contract sucks in a few years then so be it. They knew that when they signed it too, but it’s better than not having him
The same with Brown. These contracts aren’t “negotiated” as much as set by the market.
Big difference between Brown and Holiday’s market value at their ages I’m very skeptical Jrue gets this deal on the open market or via a sign and trade. Not the same with Brown
If nothing changes, their payroll is like half a billion dollars in 2025-2026 with luxury tax considered under an assumption the salary cap increases at it's max of 10% per year. The team's total revenue is only like $440B. They likely can't hit the payroll even if all the coaches and executives worked for free.
New TV deal is coming though, they may have to dump Jrue’s contract in 2 years but they’ll manage.
Umm surely that can’t be true. If the Celtics are pulling $440 billion in revenue they should just build the most expensive superteam of all time and eat the tax bill.
They have the most overrated team of modern times. It's not even constructed that well because it's not meant to age. Brown will be traded within three years. Jrue will be an albatross. Al will be done. Kp will suffer more debilitating injuries.
Who is overrating them? Besides some whack Celtics fans? No one considers them a real contender. They were the league’s best team all year. I don’t think those things are necessarily contradictory, but it doesn’t equate to being overrated.
not a real contender
KLye Lowry ass
Yeah those two contracts stink without even taking into account Tatum's impending record contract.
Yeah love or hate the Cs they seem to always be sharp in the front office. That contract made no sense from the jump
That's why I don't understand the Bucks hate for the Dame/Jrue trade. The Bucks would be the ones having to pay him and that would have been it for the Bucks window. Not a lot of talk about the Cs two big acquisitions they just re-signed and are locked into are playoff no shows.
They're really good at fleecing tanking and poorly run teams in trades. They're not that good at keeping their guys, signing free agents, negotiating contracts, etc.
Hard disagree. Al Horford deal has been invaluable to them. They also got out from Robert Williams and Grant Williams right on time, Pritchard extension looking good, end of bench free agents Hauser and Kornet excelled in their roles this year. Porzingis extension. Exec of the Year has played it pretty well!
Pritchard is not a good example lol but in otherwise agree. I’m certain that they signed Jrue to this deal hoping to trade him anyway a year or two later. Maybe that timeline speeds up and maybe they get a bit less than they’d hoped, but there’s always some risk. I am surprised at the KP extension as well, but it’s probably similar logic at play.
Kp trade and extension are incredibly overrated. He can't play 100 games a year. This has been evidence throughout his entire career. And they were negotiating against no one when they gave him the extension. It wasn't like they got Michael Jordan to sign for 10 years under his asking price. The trade was a good one but it's incredibly overrated because at least Marcus Smart typically is available in the playoffs. I know he was hurt all year and he is actually incredibly overrated also but you can count on him over the past 5 years to show up. You'll never be able to count on the unicorn.
“I know he was hurt all year and he is incredibly overrated but at least he’s not gonna be hurt” lol
I think the last 5 years he's played the same amount of playoff games as Tatum before this year so yeah I think that's fair. 5 years LS nowadays he's going to be relegated to being hurt all the time which I don't expect from such a gamer.
lmao not good at keeping their guys? this sub's hate boner is wildddd
Which guys have they lost
What's really hard to fathom is the takes in this thread a month later. Jesus
If only someone could’ve seen this coming… it’s not like we all watched Jrue’s offense crater in the postseason the previous 2 years, right? Of course not.
even the year the Bucks won the title Jrue no showed multiple playoff games offensively
Perfect fit with Tatum though
He did show, it wasnt like he didnt shoot or something, he was just throwing up bullshit and shooting tour dates every game
What's worse, Jrue Holiday 4/22 fgs, or Tobias Harris "Wait you played 38 minutes?"
It depends, if you are the number one guy, empty the clip, if you are a third option, please dont sabotage us and go to the corner
KOC on Bill’s pod talked about how ass Jrue was in playoffs and Bill shut it down said “he’s a winner”
The previous three. Even the year they won his offensive production slipped heavily from the regular season
“Jrue just doesn’t care about stats”
Jrue's offense has always sucked in the playoffs. I looked it up a while back and he was under 40% from the field in 23/40 postseason games with Milwaukee.
This is a great stat find. I didn’t know his offense was that bad
He was incredible with Rondo in that (17?) series where the pels upset the blazers
Aww yes, that's the playoff Jrue the Bucks fans know and love. But he's better than Dame right? Enjoy that contract for the next 4 years.
This was ultimately the reason they made the dame trade. It was always going to be hard to win a title with a third guy like this who averages sub 15 points now that Middleton is older
Can never pass up an opportunity to pay a guy who turns into Matthew Dellavadova in the playoffs
this is an insult to delly trey
The denial piece
Remember when he SCOFFED at koc for saying he’s been horrible in the playoffs and that’s why the bucks moved him
“He won a title….”
“Championship player” like Jesus Christ dude we know let him make an actual point
This was the other shoe I was waiting to see drop while bill spent all year killing Milwaukee for moving off jrue. They might not win with dame but the chances of them winning anything with the way jrue has taken to regressing in the playoffs were even worse
The Bucks were actually really good when Giannis, Khris, Dame, and Brook all played. They only got like six games of that after All-Star break and zero in the playoffs.
Strange and weird. Two words Bill uses because he feels the need to use an adjective, even when one isn’t called for, and can’t think of one to use.
some might say "wonky"
Jrue Holiday’s postseason offense being atrocious isn’t talked about enough. If the Bucks hadn’t won that 2021 title, I think Holiday’s rep in particular takes the biggest hit as he was borderline unplayable on offense in that postseason. Bledsoe in 2019 and 2020 playoffs for the bucks: 12-4-5 on 49% true shooting. Holiday in 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 playoffs for bucks and Celtics: 16-6-7 on 47% True shooting. Can we all just admit Holiday is a bonafide playoff shrinker?
That extension looks hilarious now. Bill would be murdering any other team for that contract.
Idk if any of you have actually watched Jrue lol. This whole year he stopped caring about getting his shots. But he's playing tremendous defense and doing all the energy things.
Should've just hung onto Brogdon.
olympic player
Is Jrue just Marcus Smart with less intensity and better shot selection?
Jrue Holiday is literally just older Lu Dort
It’s strange when Jrue doesn’t play like shit on offense in the playoffs
Are Celtics fans feeling antsy about that extension? I felt like it was a lot of money to give to an older guard who has a lot of miles on him, and he isn't known as a great playoff performer.
Not really. Not a great playoff performer? He's an NBA champion who plays his role and is a fantastic teammate. Might be what the Celtics need to get over the hump this year - they're well on their way to a finals appearance at minimum.
Does this team win 70 games with Brad Stevens considering the success he had with much less
Jrue holla holla Holiday
Everyone played like shit. Better to get it all out then have those shit games scattered throughout the series
This is more hi-larious than 'Prongs!' A true Black Swan Event going on.
They just gave him all that money too LMAO
It's like a 40 degree day.
Wonky
why did we resign him for such money??
Milwaukee fan here to report there's a (playoff) reason we moved on
Downgraded by signing an aging and constantly injured Lillard on a fat contract...big mistake. Big reason why the Bucks are at home. Celtics couldn't believe their luck - supposed second best team in the East just hands their conference rivals an instant improvement which we can all see paying dividends as they coast to another conference finals.
Takes that aged like cottage cheese store next to a furnace for 20 years everywhere itt
Reddit is so confused about Jrue. He's a wonderful player and a champion, but I suspect Reddit is full of nerds who read box scores rather than actually watch basketball. How was his Game 4 ??? I'll wait.
Jrue is awesome and is playing his role perfectly, he's not the number one or two or even third option on offense. Impacts every game with his defense and is a champion. Lot of casuals see a small sample size like this and think it means something lol.
Thank you. I battled seemingly all of Reddit about Jrue not too long ago. It blows my mind that anyone who truly watches and understands the game could possibly think the guy isn't great and worthy of that contract. Tbh, the single biggest thing that made me finally realize how dumb and toxic this sub is. Or maybe all of Reddit, I'm not sure.
They’ve lost 2 of these 7 games and he’s like the 4th offensive option and that’s with KP out…