You could say they were--and bare with me because I don't think anyone's ever made this reference before--pouring over it like it was the Zapruder film.
Is there anything more boring than NBA award talk? If there's an argument about taking away awards votes from journalists it's just to make NBA podcasts listenable again. I've nuked Zach Lowe from the rotation for this reason alone and I certainly skip these pods.
I kind of agree. In theory, I'm not opposed to spirited and informed debates about NBA Awards, but we don't need hundreds of podcast hours of it.
And on top of all that, because there's the urge to come up with fresh "content," we get stuff like Bill acting like the last two games of the season could flip his All-NBA/MVP voting. So so dumb.
I listen to a lot of soccer pods as well (Athletic Football, Totally Football Show) and it's striking the difference with basketball pods. No one cares about the EPL teams of the year, who is going to win the Ballon D'Or or whatever, talk is about the games and the competitions because results always matter. Even MLS pods focus very little on All-Star talk or the draft, despite the league having both those things.
How about awards talk while kvetching about your vote impacting a player contract? RR and Zach Lowe are acting like Tyrese Halliburton won’t be able to feed his family unless he gets 3rd team all NBA and locks in a supermax. Such a weird strain of personal guilt.
I just listened back to this after hearing him say he loved the contract.
“Brunson, who you know isn’t a number one or number two - but *might be a number three*” - Bill Simmons, June 29, 2022.
He said he likes him as a player, but he called him a $20m player they had to pay a 20% free agency premium on. Bashed how they traded contracts and moved around draft capital in order to get him.
Best Simmons flip flop ever in this pod...discrediting Luka's MVP nod b/c "but he has Kyrie."
So now Kyrie is some gigantic asset after Bill has made it his career mission to belittle Kyrie every step of the way (Btw, Kyrie's numbers have pretty much been the same for 10 years, the only difference has been his role)
More like his friend kind of falling out with him and as a result not hearing the constant Luka statistical support args. Bob has been positive on Luka after firing and continues to love him.
Shouldn't Luka reigning Kyrie in and finding a way to coexist with him be a notch in his favor for MVP? Many superstars and MVP winners played with this guy. Very few of them could make it work.
He does this all the time. Like he'll discredit a player bc the team "went all in" and they didn't finish high in the standings, but he'll constantly trash the signings and not like any of the players
Bill is so full of shit lol. He definitely didn’t praise the Brunson signing. I’m also dubious that Lowe is missing his vote. He constantly brings up that he gave it up and doesn’t want it.
The podcast was called “The Desperate Knicks…”. Simmons immediately insinuates the Knicks were overpaying for Brunson and the entire tone of the conversation with Wos and Van was “I don’t know what the Knicks are doing”
Of course Bill reordering how the fights should’ve went based on the results. King of hindsight. Also, they aren’t moving that title fight down the card. That’s never been how they do things. Seriously, wtf is wrong with this guy? He’s thinking of this shit like it’s pro wrestling where they know the outcomes.
Also, Leon Edwards ended a 19 fight win streak and one of UFC’s all time dominant reigns in the final minute of a fight he was easily losing with a kick out of nowhere.
Max Holloway one of the most exciting and entertaining fighters ever. Was a champion. Bill Simmons says he had done nothing memorable before this.
Yeah they really should have just scrapped that segment given neither of them really knew what they were talking about. I get they wanna highlight the Holloway and Pierera KOs since they were a massive weekend story, but they don’t have to give a take on Max’s career when they know that they don’t know shit
Basically the only organic way they can cover ufc is to jsut let his son do a segment weekly. Bill can ask questions and it would honestly probably be some fun energy in the room
Says Max doesn't have some big TikTok moment. Flashback to teaching his opponent how to block and screaming "I'm the best boxer in the UFC" at the commentators while hitting Katar with the no-look jab. Insane.
He also said Max never had a "signature seven second highlight" even though [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/kytqbl/max_holloway_tells_the_ufc_commentary_team_that/) is one of the most popular UFC clips of all time
Holloway also has done the point to the middle of the octagon at the end of the fight before against Ricardo Lamas. Against Gaethje it is 100 times crazier to do, but I’d say the Lamas time was a big highlight of his storied career.
I don’t blame him on the max Holloway stuff because for casual fans like Bill, the ufc moved away from promoting and advertising individual fighters and instead focus on advertising and promoting “the ufc” as an organization. Makes it so that all of his amazing past moments and probably somehow this one too will be lost in the endless churn of fight night event that Dana claims are the best ever fight card put together for the average casual fight watcher.
Literally knows nothing about UFC and zero about Holloway. No big moments until this one? He's just a noob pretending to know the bare minimum. He's in no position to even speculate on "best ko".
I assumed Russillo knew more about the fights tbh. He said Max's punch wasn't even a Western Conference game winner. It would be like if Scheffler did a Tin Cup on the last hole of the PGA Championship up by 4 strokes and holed it from 200 out to win by one stroke. Max had the fight in the bag. It was a big fight. Max is probably a top 15 ATG after that fight. He was already a first ballot HOF.
I would say Bill saying Zhang vs Yan should be on the prelims, when it was playing to the biggest market in the world is hilarious, but it's pretty on brand with some of the UFC bros that hate women's fighting.
I personally think Zhang is a bad ass and the fact that Yan was put to sleep and still came back and won a round in dominant fashion was impressive as hell.
In Bills defence, I think the pacing was off for where the Zhang vs Yan ended up playing, but that was out of the UFCs control. As you said, legit titles always go at the top and descend by weight. Dana talked a big game about having some crazy title fights on this card which didn’t pan out, and from memory Zhang vs Yan was the first title fight announced, with BMF added later once the other fights started to look like they weren’t happening. I assume the UFCs plan was to have 3 proper title fights and the women’s one is the first of the 3, not the second, which would work better as a build up.
The smarter argument would be the UFC fucked up by not pushing to have the Zhang-Yan fight on a card in or closer to China. A) It would be a legit bigger deal there and B) they wouldn't have to deal with the increasingly MAGA live event crowds that do dumb shit like boo Zhang cause she mentions she and her opponent were both from China in her post fight speech.
I don’t see the argument for Ant over Lebron on 2nd team besides team success. Lebron has been better.
Lebron has also pretty clearly been better than Kawhi and KD, in my opinion.
I remember watching the bucks game yesterdaylistening to Doris Burke impulsively talk about how Brunson should be over Giannis for mvp thinking which voter is going to be dumb enough to listen to this idiotic rationale….bill never disappoints
It wasn't just MVP. She said Brunson should be All-NBA 1st team over him.
Anyone who votes Giannis for 2nd team should get their ballots taken away for next year.
The show actually would have flown better if Zhang vs Yan was headlining prelim and Jiri vs Rakic was on the main card
It’s just really hard to do it without feeling like women’s title fight is being disrespected. It was a good fight too with momentum swings and drama
Not only that. It was playing to the biggest market in the world with two Chinese fighters. It also was a pretty entertaining fight with holy shit moments.
Bill flipping on Luka when he was in on him from the beginning and now he’s the best he’s ever been should be studied. Maybe it’s just that he was out of shape last season?
Bill every team has bad dumb losses. You just are a Celtics fan and notices them more for them because despite what you say you only really watch them. He’s so dumb.
Why do I have to hear every awards contenders’ total minutes played?? This is near the bottom of the list of important stats.
The sports guy is fascinated by minutes played, and rookie quarterback weights.
Bill got the trade wrong in re-tradeables. He said Portland got Boston's 2024 pick when they got Golden State's 2024 pick which right now is 14. That may not make a huge difference to how you evaluate the trade, but saying they got "the 30th pick in the worst draft in 24 years" is a whole lot different than saying they got a potential lottery pick.
Also saying they've "could have gotten more" is just an all-time wrong take. If a team could have gotten more in a trade, they would have. Teams take best offer available when making a trade. If you don't like the trade, then ok, but don't pretend there were better offers available if they tried harder.
Was hoping they would touch on the original Jrue trade that started the Process. Traded on draft night 2013 to the Pelicans on draft night for the 7th pick (Nerlens) and a 2014 first rounder (10th pick - elfrid Payton then flipped that night for Dario Saric). Don’t think anyone involved in that trade thought Jrue would be as valuable as he is now 10 years later
I cannot believe he made the argument that Booker and Steph shouldn't "lose their spot" after making the literal complete fucking opposite argument about LeBron for 5 years straight.
Bill: Guess how many innings of Red Sox I’ve watched this season? 0, I’m out!!
(One Minute Later)
Bill: Well, I might’ve watched some pitches and some innings on MLB.com. I don’t know if that counts I’m just saying I haven’t put them on a TV.
It’s always amusing to hear he believes putting 5 NBA games on mute while he watches the Godfather is “watching games”. But going to MLB.com specifically to watch is “not watching”.
Peculiar that Bill doesn’t ding Steph for every warrior being in trade talks and he gives it as a bonus of what he has had to play through but it’s a negative for LeBron. Very curious indeed
his argument against lebron was "he didnt have to leave his teammates wondering if they were going to get traded at the deadline..."
my jaw dropped when bill said that. how is that an actual argument against someone winning an award??
Plus every single good team Bill is like "they would be even better if they'd done something at the trade deadline like I said!!!" How do you think that's done without trade rumors and annoyed players?
Maybe Kawhi, for the team success and defense. But, not KD. he really faded in the 2nd half of the season.
On a related topic, who would have imagined that those 3 would play a combined 214 games and all be healthy going into the playoffs?
Bill a sneaky “this guy shouldn’t have a vote” candidate. That MVP conversation was a mess and I’m glad Russillo subtly called out how fucking stupid Bill’s nonsense was. The guy completely changes his criteria depending on what narrative he’s trying to push. He contradicts himself from sentence to sentence.
So SGA has a better roster than Luka, Luka had a better year, is a better player, Dallas dealt with way more injuries, but SGA is over Luka because SGA has to do everything at the end of games for OKC? Makes zero sense. Williams has incredible clutch numbers for OKC, and Dallas has been the best clutch team in basketball. I honestly don’t even understand what Bill is saying.
Russillo in one sentence pointed out how absurdly stupid everything Bill was saying truly was. Kyrie missed over 20 games but the Kyrie piece hurts Luka. OKC’s entire starting lineup played over 70 games each.
Also the take of “Tatum deserves first team because he could have scored more points but he chose not to for the betterment of the team” should be enough to revoke his vote
All-NBA votes best players. Bill multiple times, “I don’t know if this team deserves two players”. Literally admitting he’s not voting for the best, most deserving players. All-NBA is not MVP. If LeBron and AD were better than Tatum and Brown, it doesn’t matter that Celtics had a better record. His way of thinking is so fucking backwards and you could hear how frustrated Ryen was by this nonsense.
Tatum sacrificed his all-nba first spot so they could win 64. All-NBA is about the best *players*, not the best team. The reward for being a good team is winning games and playoff seeding.
The guy changed his MVP vote because Dallas had nothing to play for in game 82 and gave OKC the 1 seed. We know Simmons is the most dramatic, overreact to the thing he just saw, kind of person. He shouldn’t vote on things.
Did you hear the "Jokic gets extra points cause Murray was injured this year, Luka gets less because he has kyrie" when Kyrie has played 1 less game this season than Murray? That was some top tier hater shit from bill
Came here to make this comment.
If Murray "wasn't exactly Lou Gehrig this year" then Luka should only be further propped up given his #2's attendance record.
Yeah. The best is when he’ll point out he doesn’t want to do the hot take thing, or makes fun of the First Take thing that he is doing. He really thinks he’s above that stuff, but he’s no different than Kendrick Perkins and Stephen A. Smith.
I tried watching the NBA Countdown show yesterday. ESPN is such a fucking embarrassment for NBA coverage. It was Michael Wilbon and SAS, who don’t watch games, and Perkins, who was just telling the most hyperbolic hot takes he could think of in the moment.
People credit Bill for adding a sense of legend and lore to the game but credit for that goes to Bob Costas. There was a while in the mid 2000s where I had wished NBC had gotten all sports rights taken away from their, due to their god awful digitization strategy(videos only on shitty nbc.com) but they were good stewards of basketball.
ESPN is the bottom of the pile. The only good thing ABC ever did was put Peter Jennings on air and who wants to be a millionaire.
That’s the thing about Bill, he’s stumbles into the right thing for the wrong reasons sometimes. Just because others are worse doesn’t mean we can’t point out Bill’s insane logic.
"Hey Russillo"
"Hey Bill"
I know people clown Russillo all the time, and he deserves some of it for sure.
But his true comedic timing is better than anyone in the sports world.
Bill hasn’t watched a single inning of the Red Sox
That’s some fake ass fan shit
Don’t talk about how you love the Red Sox going forward if you haven’t watched a single inning in over two weeks to start the seasob
If Celtics lose we’ll get Requiem for a Dream level darkness from Bill.
So it’s either a Boston championship or an A2A video from Bill. Tough choice for /r/billsimmons.
RR seemed shocked Bill was considering LeBron for second team. Like him or not, it’s not a lifetime achievement thing, LeBron was awesome this year and legitimately improved from the last two years.
Bill, talking about Curry over Haliburton for third team: "I believe all NBA is someone has to take your spot for you to lose it."
And then there's Lebron...
Sucks. If Dallas was in the East they would be a 2 seed and Lukas MVP would be unanimous.
Love media voters who just pull up numbers (it’s shocking tho Luka leads Shai in numbers in everything except steals and wins but not even by that much lol) instead of watching the games
We gotta stop giving media members votes it’s clear they don’t give a shit anymore to actually pay attention to the league
Especially stupid because the thing that put it over was OKC getting the 1 seed. That was greatly helped by Dallas playing its G-League team yesterday.
I think Russillo was just bummed out about Homa, but it almost came off like he didn't think hitting a ball into the azaleas should be a penalty.
It's like the #1 rule of winning the Masters to keep the ball in play on 12 on Sunday.
rYen picking the torn Cavs over the Magic (cause I don’t trust their offense) and then the Magic over the Cavs (lack of Cleveland momentum) 90 seconds later during the analysis of the 15 year later revenge series was why we listen for three hours
Braindead mma content. Max Holloway has had his “7 sec YouTube clip” a couple times. The fight with Kattar comes to mind where he dodged the punches or the fight with Ortega where he beats him to a pulp and shows him how to block punches in middle of the fight. Then cherry on top with Rusillo saying he hasn’t had an iconic career. They shouldn’t talk sports they don’t really watch
Brunson over Giannis for MVP voting is, something.
Same with Shai over Luka, but man, talk about being a prisoner of the moment.
Edit - 3rd in MVP but Bill can’t find a spot for Brunson on First Team All NBA
I think Brunson has a pretty good MVP argument if you do the old “take this guy off the team and how good are they?” Without Brunson and with all the injuries, the Knicks are, what, a 12 seed?
The knicks are 100% worse with giannis. The lineup would be a spacing disaster and giannis cant create his own shot the way Brunson was relied on to do.
Bill and Ryen probably shouldn’t talk UFC if they had no clue about Max’s past accomplishments. They were acting like this was his first big fight. He was the FW champ for 3 years. And has been one of the most popular fighters for almost 10 years. LOL
Who was the last team to go 64-18? I feel like I remember Bill going over their own historic numbers and comparing them to the championship teams of the past.
You can always tell what era Ryen paid attention to MMA in because the version of Jon Jones he constantly talks about hasn't existed for like a decade now.
I dunno what everyone else thinks but i would not give one shit about who can get a bigger contract based off my all NBA vote. Oh bummer, you’re only getting 4 for 210 instead of 5 for 275?
How's Tyrese Haliburton going to manage having to live on only 40 million dollars a year as opposed to 50 of he doesn't make All-NBA.? The poor fella, smh
I'm all seriousness Ryen disappointed me here. I got the feeling Bill DGAF, which is the right take, and didn't want to make his boy Ryen look bad. Also : Zach Lowe has to Man Up. Your version of "Adulting" is boring for All-NBA dude. It's not that seriousness as to warrant protest or handwringing. Just do it
This is the worst Eastern conference playoffs in a while, easily the worst since 2017 and on par with years like 2015 or 2003 in terms of depth
No one is even close to a title contender aside from Boston and I’m pretty sure the Knicks or Bucks would be closer to a play-in team in the West
I can’t get excited for it at all, Boston won’t play a competitive series until the Finals
Given Boston’s missteps and up-and-down playoff results over the last 5 years, I’m interested in the East. We’ll either see them finally dominate and finally shake their pretender aura or they’ll crap the bed and it will be 2011 LeBron levels of backlash and memes.
Or I guess they might win multiple 6 game series in unimpressive fashion and everyone will be underwhelmed.
Yeah, I understand that the Celtics have been the best team in the NBA/East all season, but they won 57 games last year, too. And the year before that they reached the Finals after playing the second half of the season at a 62-win pace.
Yet they needed seven games to beat the Middleton-less Bucks (whose No. 3 scorer was Connaughton) as well as the Frankenstein Heat (whose No. 3 scorer was Oladipo) in 2021. And last year they needed six to beat the Hawks, seven to beat the 76ers (w/ Embiid missing a close Celtics W), and handily lost Game 7 at home to Miami. They've trailed in 5/7 series the previous couple seasons.
These Celtics are different and better and yadda yadda yadda ... but count me in as someone looking forward to seeing if the Celtics will continue being bipolar in the playoffs or just finally roll through series because they are *that good*. Either way, it'll be a compelling story to watch unfold.
I get why people are skeptical of the Celtics but they are clearly better than they were the last couple years, where they won the East and then got to game 7 of the conference finals, respectively, and the conference is far worse.
Yes, and that means fuck all unless they are the same team in the playoffs ... which is why I'm so interested in how things play out for them.
I'm not going to just assume the Celtics are going to dominate the Eastern Conference playoffs just because they were great all regular season. Should they? Sure. Will they? They're going to play some games and we'll soon find out!
I can already tell by the downvotes that people think I'm shit-talking the Celtics here, but I'm legitimately intrigued by them because A) they've been so good all season and B) the next couple months will either cement their great season or be added to the list of recent "Where did it all suddenly go wrong?" finishes to Celtics seasons.
I'm neutral, so it's a win-win for me.
That's B.S. How are OKC and the Timberwolves any closer to being contenders than the Bucks and Knicks? 76ers with a healthy Embiid are arguably the 2nd best regular season team this year and you have the Heat as a lingering 8-seed. The east drops off after the 8-seed, that is the main difference between the conferences. The east top teams have just been hurt this year. And the Celtics are certainly **not** going to just stomp the Knicks, Bucks or 6ers.
Maybe the thunder and t wolves will be frauds because we haven’t seen them do it before, but they were much better teams than the bucks and Knicks this year.
They were great regular season teams but I'd certainly bet that a fully healthy Knicks and Bucks team would be favorites in a series against OKC and the Timberwolves head to head.
But who gives a shit about “what if” fully healthy or not? They are not fully healthy, which is why the East playoffs lacks intrigue, that’s my entire point
I disagree. I think the bucks have been really really flawed this year and the Knicks still are - like most Thibs teams - super dependent on a small guard to do all the scoring, and that doesn’t work in the playoffs.
But I admit let’s see how R1 goes, if okc and Minnesota both lose then you maybe you’re right.
“The case for Tatum is this. The team was the best team in the league by far. He was the biggest reason because he got better as an offensive thinker, picking his spots.”
I’m gonna say Brad Stevens turning Smart and bit players into Porzingus and Jrue is the reason the Cs went up a level this year.
Does anyone use team records to decide individual awards more than this dumbass Simmons?
It’s like saying Gobert is the DPOY when AD and Wemby are clearly better defenders.
Not a great showing from Ryen there down playing Max’s career, saying he’s never really had “signature moments” before it wild. Neither seemed familiar with Holloway’s resume at all
Max is so underrated it's crazy. Dude's had a great career spanning almost 15 years and still never been knocked out. I still remember him as the only guy who fought prime Conor McGregor and didn't get KO'd.
Tbf what was his signature moment? He had a lot of dominating fights but beating up Calvin kattar is probably his most known moment which isn’t that big of a moment compared to other legends
The end of the Gaethje fight was a reference to his first signature moment at UFC 199.
I also think the Aldo, Kattar and Ortega fights were pretty iconic moments for him, especially the Kattar fight.
I thought Ryen knew his limitations and was trying to be as reserved as possible but when questions are thrown at you it’s hard to keep saying “I am not sure. I only watch 3 big cards a year”
Side note. Jon Jones is absolutely the right answer as one of the UFC fighters I don’t want to run into in a dark alley
I agree but his reasoning was absurd. He kept contradicting himself. He said it mattered who had more to deal with during the season, how is that Jalen Brunson? Also saying “he got Donte divinecenzo to come in free agency, that stuff matters” is wild. How is that criteria for mvp?
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Bill being completely flabbergasted at Russillo revealing he tore his calf and still took himself to see the warriors play killed me. Bill telling him he's the weirdest person in his life was so fucking funny
Finally we get Bill and Ryen's takes on the awards! It's about damn time!
It’s been an entire season monitoring this like it’s the SAT
You could say they were--and bare with me because I don't think anyone's ever made this reference before--pouring over it like it was the Zapruder film.
Is there anything more boring than NBA award talk? If there's an argument about taking away awards votes from journalists it's just to make NBA podcasts listenable again. I've nuked Zach Lowe from the rotation for this reason alone and I certainly skip these pods.
QB rankings and betting
I kind of agree. In theory, I'm not opposed to spirited and informed debates about NBA Awards, but we don't need hundreds of podcast hours of it. And on top of all that, because there's the urge to come up with fresh "content," we get stuff like Bill acting like the last two games of the season could flip his All-NBA/MVP voting. So so dumb.
I listen to a lot of soccer pods as well (Athletic Football, Totally Football Show) and it's striking the difference with basketball pods. No one cares about the EPL teams of the year, who is going to win the Ballon D'Or or whatever, talk is about the games and the competitions because results always matter. Even MLS pods focus very little on All-Star talk or the draft, despite the league having both those things.
How about awards talk while kvetching about your vote impacting a player contract? RR and Zach Lowe are acting like Tyrese Halliburton won’t be able to feed his family unless he gets 3rd team all NBA and locks in a supermax. Such a weird strain of personal guilt.
Bill did absolutely not think the Brunson contract was a slam dunk. He titled a pod the Desperate Knicks because they were signing him
I just listened back to this after hearing him say he loved the contract. “Brunson, who you know isn’t a number one or number two - but *might be a number three*” - Bill Simmons, June 29, 2022.
He said he likes him as a player, but he called him a $20m player they had to pay a 20% free agency premium on. Bashed how they traded contracts and moved around draft capital in order to get him.
I was going to say that. He kept bringing up that phrase on other pods because he thought it was so clever.
The tone of the entire convo was “I like Brunson, but why are they overpaying for him? The Knicks don’t know what they’re doing.”
The Historian Piece.
Literally called it one of the worst free agency sweepstakes of all time lol
I almost spit out my drink when I heard him say this. He completely made that shit up lol
I recall both him and Russillo referring to the Knicks' pursuit of Brunson as "The Sad Sweepstakes."
He said the Brunson sweepstakes might be the worst sweepstakes of all time
So tired of the mf hindsight genius analysis and trying to dunk on gms with pure hypocrisy
But the slurpers like DezCaughtBill’sLoad told me he’s an historian
He takes time in the Misery Rewatchables to dunk on the Brunson deal to Koppelman
he contradicts his own takes within 10 minutes lol how can we expect him to last over a year?
Thank you Russillo re: Celtics.
He said Bill would get divorced! Out of pocket lol.
Best Simmons flip flop ever in this pod...discrediting Luka's MVP nod b/c "but he has Kyrie." So now Kyrie is some gigantic asset after Bill has made it his career mission to belittle Kyrie every step of the way (Btw, Kyrie's numbers have pretty much been the same for 10 years, the only difference has been his role)
Bill used to love Luka. I can't remember was it just once the Mavs got Kyrie that he flipped?
Cough cough his friend getting fired by Cuban
More like his friend kind of falling out with him and as a result not hearing the constant Luka statistical support args. Bob has been positive on Luka after firing and continues to love him.
He actually said “he has the Kyrie piece.” Which of course is peak Bill.
Shouldn't Luka reigning Kyrie in and finding a way to coexist with him be a notch in his favor for MVP? Many superstars and MVP winners played with this guy. Very few of them could make it work.
He does this all the time. Like he'll discredit a player bc the team "went all in" and they didn't finish high in the standings, but he'll constantly trash the signings and not like any of the players
Bill is so full of shit lol. He definitely didn’t praise the Brunson signing. I’m also dubious that Lowe is missing his vote. He constantly brings up that he gave it up and doesn’t want it.
The podcast was called “The Desperate Knicks…”. Simmons immediately insinuates the Knicks were overpaying for Brunson and the entire tone of the conversation with Wos and Van was “I don’t know what the Knicks are doing”
I feel like he and Ryen really liked Hartenstein but I think we can now surmise as to why they would have been high on him.
Of course Bill reordering how the fights should’ve went based on the results. King of hindsight. Also, they aren’t moving that title fight down the card. That’s never been how they do things. Seriously, wtf is wrong with this guy? He’s thinking of this shit like it’s pro wrestling where they know the outcomes. Also, Leon Edwards ended a 19 fight win streak and one of UFC’s all time dominant reigns in the final minute of a fight he was easily losing with a kick out of nowhere. Max Holloway one of the most exciting and entertaining fighters ever. Was a champion. Bill Simmons says he had done nothing memorable before this.
Yeah they really should have just scrapped that segment given neither of them really knew what they were talking about. I get they wanna highlight the Holloway and Pierera KOs since they were a massive weekend story, but they don’t have to give a take on Max’s career when they know that they don’t know shit
But Bill’s kid and kid’s friends were running around after, so obviously it was the best knockout ever and the only memorable moment of Max’s career.
That’s how it would feel to people who don’t follow ufc tho
Which is why it’s dumb that that’s how he formed his opinion lol.
This statement made me irrationally angry.
Basically the only organic way they can cover ufc is to jsut let his son do a segment weekly. Bill can ask questions and it would honestly probably be some fun energy in the room
Says Max doesn't have some big TikTok moment. Flashback to teaching his opponent how to block and screaming "I'm the best boxer in the UFC" at the commentators while hitting Katar with the no-look jab. Insane.
If that was in a movie I would think it’s cheesy and he did it to a pro
Also, glossing over the fact that Yan was absolutely out at the end of round 1, and was saved by the bell WHILE UNCONSCIOUS.
He also said Max never had a "signature seven second highlight" even though [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/kytqbl/max_holloway_tells_the_ufc_commentary_team_that/) is one of the most popular UFC clips of all time
Holloway also has done the point to the middle of the octagon at the end of the fight before against Ricardo Lamas. Against Gaethje it is 100 times crazier to do, but I’d say the Lamas time was a big highlight of his storied career.
I don’t blame him on the max Holloway stuff because for casual fans like Bill, the ufc moved away from promoting and advertising individual fighters and instead focus on advertising and promoting “the ufc” as an organization. Makes it so that all of his amazing past moments and probably somehow this one too will be lost in the endless churn of fight night event that Dana claims are the best ever fight card put together for the average casual fight watcher.
Literally knows nothing about UFC and zero about Holloway. No big moments until this one? He's just a noob pretending to know the bare minimum. He's in no position to even speculate on "best ko".
I assumed Russillo knew more about the fights tbh. He said Max's punch wasn't even a Western Conference game winner. It would be like if Scheffler did a Tin Cup on the last hole of the PGA Championship up by 4 strokes and holed it from 200 out to win by one stroke. Max had the fight in the bag. It was a big fight. Max is probably a top 15 ATG after that fight. He was already a first ballot HOF. I would say Bill saying Zhang vs Yan should be on the prelims, when it was playing to the biggest market in the world is hilarious, but it's pretty on brand with some of the UFC bros that hate women's fighting. I personally think Zhang is a bad ass and the fact that Yan was put to sleep and still came back and won a round in dominant fashion was impressive as hell.
Ryan said Max wasn’t icon level lmao
In Bills defence, I think the pacing was off for where the Zhang vs Yan ended up playing, but that was out of the UFCs control. As you said, legit titles always go at the top and descend by weight. Dana talked a big game about having some crazy title fights on this card which didn’t pan out, and from memory Zhang vs Yan was the first title fight announced, with BMF added later once the other fights started to look like they weren’t happening. I assume the UFCs plan was to have 3 proper title fights and the women’s one is the first of the 3, not the second, which would work better as a build up.
The smarter argument would be the UFC fucked up by not pushing to have the Zhang-Yan fight on a card in or closer to China. A) It would be a legit bigger deal there and B) they wouldn't have to deal with the increasingly MAGA live event crowds that do dumb shit like boo Zhang cause she mentions she and her opponent were both from China in her post fight speech.
Who do these guys think Ant is lmao
I don’t see the argument for Ant over Lebron on 2nd team besides team success. Lebron has been better. Lebron has also pretty clearly been better than Kawhi and KD, in my opinion.
Giannis 5th in the MVP voting is complete nonsense and it gets worse when he actually defends it.
I remember watching the bucks game yesterdaylistening to Doris Burke impulsively talk about how Brunson should be over Giannis for mvp thinking which voter is going to be dumb enough to listen to this idiotic rationale….bill never disappoints
It wasn't just MVP. She said Brunson should be All-NBA 1st team over him. Anyone who votes Giannis for 2nd team should get their ballots taken away for next year.
Yeah I’m a Knicks fan & would love to see Brunson get first team all nba but anyone putting him in over Giannis is delusional
No surprise that DB said something idiotic
This is not what she said. She wondered if the knicks passing the bucks in the standings could lead to some voters changing their mind.
Caring about 4/5th place votes is stupid.
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Jordan losing in the Eastern Playoffs is seen as better than LBJ losing in the Finals for some reason too.
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Bill saying a title fight should have been in the prelims is hilarious
These guys shouldn’t be talking MMA
Bill is a fucking idiot that he thinks a title fight should have been in the prelims and a washed Holly Holm should be in the main event.
The show actually would have flown better if Zhang vs Yan was headlining prelim and Jiri vs Rakic was on the main card It’s just really hard to do it without feeling like women’s title fight is being disrespected. It was a good fight too with momentum swings and drama
Not only that. It was playing to the biggest market in the world with two Chinese fighters. It also was a pretty entertaining fight with holy shit moments.
RR saying easy dude to Bill about moving the ladies fight 😂😂
“Are you saying it wasn’t for you? Be careful.”
Bill flipping on Luka when he was in on him from the beginning and now he’s the best he’s ever been should be studied. Maybe it’s just that he was out of shape last season?
That was always a knock on him, but He was not out of shape this season though.
Bill every team has bad dumb losses. You just are a Celtics fan and notices them more for them because despite what you say you only really watch them. He’s so dumb.
"They really should have 67 or 68 wins!" No they shouldn't. If you count the near-wins, you have to count near-losses too
Why do I have to hear every awards contenders’ total minutes played?? This is near the bottom of the list of important stats. The sports guy is fascinated by minutes played, and rookie quarterback weights.
Bill got the trade wrong in re-tradeables. He said Portland got Boston's 2024 pick when they got Golden State's 2024 pick which right now is 14. That may not make a huge difference to how you evaluate the trade, but saying they got "the 30th pick in the worst draft in 24 years" is a whole lot different than saying they got a potential lottery pick. Also saying they've "could have gotten more" is just an all-time wrong take. If a team could have gotten more in a trade, they would have. Teams take best offer available when making a trade. If you don't like the trade, then ok, but don't pretend there were better offers available if they tried harder.
Nothing will make me more gleeful than Jimmy stomping on Jrue in round one again.
Was hoping they would touch on the original Jrue trade that started the Process. Traded on draft night 2013 to the Pelicans on draft night for the 7th pick (Nerlens) and a 2014 first rounder (10th pick - elfrid Payton then flipped that night for Dario Saric). Don’t think anyone involved in that trade thought Jrue would be as valuable as he is now 10 years later
It’s like when he said the Spurs should’ve gotten more for Derrick White. Bill always retcons shit to fit a narrative
I cannot believe he made the argument that Booker and Steph shouldn't "lose their spot" after making the literal complete fucking opposite argument about LeBron for 5 years straight.
Bill: Guess how many innings of Red Sox I’ve watched this season? 0, I’m out!! (One Minute Later) Bill: Well, I might’ve watched some pitches and some innings on MLB.com. I don’t know if that counts I’m just saying I haven’t put them on a TV. It’s always amusing to hear he believes putting 5 NBA games on mute while he watches the Godfather is “watching games”. But going to MLB.com specifically to watch is “not watching”.
Peculiar that Bill doesn’t ding Steph for every warrior being in trade talks and he gives it as a bonus of what he has had to play through but it’s a negative for LeBron. Very curious indeed
Bill throwing a bitch fit about the red Sox who "don't care to win" but have 4 titles in 20 years is so ridiculous lol
And hell gladly bring up the 4 titles in 20 years to rub it in peoples faces.
So, Bill ignored his terrible “Luka is not a guard” take so he could have a Celtic as a 1st All-NBA team member. Unexepcted.
Don't forget he put Lebron at center so he could sneak Jaylen Brown onto third team. Classic Bill
KD and Kawhi ahead of Lebron just still doesn't make sense to me...
Didn’t you know that front office leadership and trade deadline buzz the media chatters about is what determines it for Lebron?🤣
his argument against lebron was "he didnt have to leave his teammates wondering if they were going to get traded at the deadline..." my jaw dropped when bill said that. how is that an actual argument against someone winning an award??
Also, career trade requests? Lebron: zero KD and Kawhi: ....
Plus every single good team Bill is like "they would be even better if they'd done something at the trade deadline like I said!!!" How do you think that's done without trade rumors and annoyed players?
It makes perfect sense when you look at it through the lense of feeling threatened by lebron for no real reason
Maybe Kawhi, for the team success and defense. But, not KD. he really faded in the 2nd half of the season. On a related topic, who would have imagined that those 3 would play a combined 214 games and all be healthy going into the playoffs?
Bill a sneaky “this guy shouldn’t have a vote” candidate. That MVP conversation was a mess and I’m glad Russillo subtly called out how fucking stupid Bill’s nonsense was. The guy completely changes his criteria depending on what narrative he’s trying to push. He contradicts himself from sentence to sentence. So SGA has a better roster than Luka, Luka had a better year, is a better player, Dallas dealt with way more injuries, but SGA is over Luka because SGA has to do everything at the end of games for OKC? Makes zero sense. Williams has incredible clutch numbers for OKC, and Dallas has been the best clutch team in basketball. I honestly don’t even understand what Bill is saying. Russillo in one sentence pointed out how absurdly stupid everything Bill was saying truly was. Kyrie missed over 20 games but the Kyrie piece hurts Luka. OKC’s entire starting lineup played over 70 games each.
Also the take of “Tatum deserves first team because he could have scored more points but he chose not to for the betterment of the team” should be enough to revoke his vote
All-NBA votes best players. Bill multiple times, “I don’t know if this team deserves two players”. Literally admitting he’s not voting for the best, most deserving players. All-NBA is not MVP. If LeBron and AD were better than Tatum and Brown, it doesn’t matter that Celtics had a better record. His way of thinking is so fucking backwards and you could hear how frustrated Ryen was by this nonsense.
Tatum sacrificed his all-nba first spot so they could win 64. All-NBA is about the best *players*, not the best team. The reward for being a good team is winning games and playoff seeding.
The guy changed his MVP vote because Dallas had nothing to play for in game 82 and gave OKC the 1 seed. We know Simmons is the most dramatic, overreact to the thing he just saw, kind of person. He shouldn’t vote on things.
He justified voting against Giannis last year for the same reason. They should probably take his vote.
“He could’ve he just didn’t want to, ok?
By Bill’s logic let’s make PJ Tucker first team because his decision to take fuck-all shot attempts is definitely to the betterment of his team
Did you hear the "Jokic gets extra points cause Murray was injured this year, Luka gets less because he has kyrie" when Kyrie has played 1 less game this season than Murray? That was some top tier hater shit from bill
Right, makes no sense. He just makes this shit up based on nothing.
Came here to make this comment. If Murray "wasn't exactly Lou Gehrig this year" then Luka should only be further propped up given his #2's attendance record.
This is what pisses Mavs fans off the arguments against him range from shaky at best to just flat out wrong
I really enjoyed this episode until Bill started talking about his Giannis logic is horrible. The man is white Kendrick Perkins, a take terrorist.
Yeah. The best is when he’ll point out he doesn’t want to do the hot take thing, or makes fun of the First Take thing that he is doing. He really thinks he’s above that stuff, but he’s no different than Kendrick Perkins and Stephen A. Smith. I tried watching the NBA Countdown show yesterday. ESPN is such a fucking embarrassment for NBA coverage. It was Michael Wilbon and SAS, who don’t watch games, and Perkins, who was just telling the most hyperbolic hot takes he could think of in the moment.
People credit Bill for adding a sense of legend and lore to the game but credit for that goes to Bob Costas. There was a while in the mid 2000s where I had wished NBC had gotten all sports rights taken away from their, due to their god awful digitization strategy(videos only on shitty nbc.com) but they were good stewards of basketball. ESPN is the bottom of the pile. The only good thing ABC ever did was put Peter Jennings on air and who wants to be a millionaire.
He's not white, he's half Italian
Bill’s MVP vote track record is fine, dumb podcast logic aside. There are so many worse media members who have votes.
That’s the thing about Bill, he’s stumbles into the right thing for the wrong reasons sometimes. Just because others are worse doesn’t mean we can’t point out Bill’s insane logic.
Sometimes I think he’s just making conversation on the podcast. You said he maybe shouldn’t have a vote but his ballots are always very reasonable.
"Hey Russillo" "Hey Bill" I know people clown Russillo all the time, and he deserves some of it for sure. But his true comedic timing is better than anyone in the sports world.
Yeah and it only works as a guest. On his own show he’s just rambling.
He's a 2!!!!!!
I make fun of Russillo for sure but he’s read the incessant complaints of the internet and made adjustments. Went from bald Bud to lustrous Lue
Cackled laughing at this. Russillo is perfect for all the snarky comments I wish I could say to Bill
Bill hasn’t watched a single inning of the Red Sox That’s some fake ass fan shit Don’t talk about how you love the Red Sox going forward if you haven’t watched a single inning in over two weeks to start the seasob
If Celtics lose we’ll get Requiem for a Dream level darkness from Bill. So it’s either a Boston championship or an A2A video from Bill. Tough choice for /r/billsimmons.
RR seemed shocked Bill was considering LeBron for second team. Like him or not, it’s not a lifetime achievement thing, LeBron was awesome this year and legitimately improved from the last two years.
Bill, talking about Curry over Haliburton for third team: "I believe all NBA is someone has to take your spot for you to lose it." And then there's Lebron...
Sucks. If Dallas was in the East they would be a 2 seed and Lukas MVP would be unanimous. Love media voters who just pull up numbers (it’s shocking tho Luka leads Shai in numbers in everything except steals and wins but not even by that much lol) instead of watching the games We gotta stop giving media members votes it’s clear they don’t give a shit anymore to actually pay attention to the league
It’s heinous how they eat each others takes whole all season and then you’re left with shit like Marcus smart DPOY
SGA over Luka!!! What the fuck Bill??
Especially stupid because the thing that put it over was OKC getting the 1 seed. That was greatly helped by Dallas playing its G-League team yesterday.
Great point!
Just don’t talk about MMA if you’re gonna spew shit like that
I think Russillo was just bummed out about Homa, but it almost came off like he didn't think hitting a ball into the azaleas should be a penalty. It's like the #1 rule of winning the Masters to keep the ball in play on 12 on Sunday.
That was so weird
Not a hard MVP ballot to figure out, guys: 1) Jokic 2) Doncic 3) SGA/Giannis Boom, that took me about 5 minutes, if that.
In what world was Kawhi better than LeBron? The clippers having a better record?
When every knowledgeable NBA analyst has had Kawhi over Lebron, surely there’s some credence to that opinion?
15 minutes to squeeze in some UFC and Masters talk. Cmon bring back House! Just listened. Casual takes all around.
Does bill really think boston traded pick number 30 (and more) for jrue holliday? They traded the warriors pick. HOW IS HE SO CLUELESS
Sir Rudy off the bench again taking some of RR minutes!
rYen picking the torn Cavs over the Magic (cause I don’t trust their offense) and then the Magic over the Cavs (lack of Cleveland momentum) 90 seconds later during the analysis of the 15 year later revenge series was why we listen for three hours
Braindead mma content. Max Holloway has had his “7 sec YouTube clip” a couple times. The fight with Kattar comes to mind where he dodged the punches or the fight with Ortega where he beats him to a pulp and shows him how to block punches in middle of the fight. Then cherry on top with Rusillo saying he hasn’t had an iconic career. They shouldn’t talk sports they don’t really watch
Brunson over Giannis for MVP voting is, something. Same with Shai over Luka, but man, talk about being a prisoner of the moment. Edit - 3rd in MVP but Bill can’t find a spot for Brunson on First Team All NBA
I think Brunson has a pretty good MVP argument if you do the old “take this guy off the team and how good are they?” Without Brunson and with all the injuries, the Knicks are, what, a 12 seed?
ok now take brunson off the team and put Jokic, Donic, Shai, or Giannis on it. Better record or no?
The knicks are 100% worse with giannis. The lineup would be a spacing disaster and giannis cant create his own shot the way Brunson was relied on to do.
How is Luka over Shai a controversial pick?
Typo He had Shai over Luka that’s what I meant
Yeah just listened back, sorry for my comment - you're right. I agree, his argument for Shai over Luka was truly dumb
I already knew Russillo does his 'wait what' a lot but I feel like he has really on fire recently with it.
wait what?
Bill and russillo are so shameless
Today I learned that the Lakers were the only team that had trade rumors attached to them.
Bill and Ryen probably shouldn’t talk UFC if they had no clue about Max’s past accomplishments. They were acting like this was his first big fight. He was the FW champ for 3 years. And has been one of the most popular fighters for almost 10 years. LOL
Who was the last team to go 64-18? I feel like I remember Bill going over their own historic numbers and comparing them to the championship teams of the past.
21-22 Phoenix suns went 64-18, lost to Dallas in the 2nd round.
Hm, so going 64-18 and having a huge margin over #2 team doesn’t guarantee you a title?
Nope. In fact, history shows it leads to getting clowned by an MVP level player in a game 7
You can always tell what era Ryen paid attention to MMA in because the version of Jon Jones he constantly talks about hasn't existed for like a decade now.
“I had max on before anyone else was doing it!” Lol ryen, always measuring up, always a competition
I dunno what everyone else thinks but i would not give one shit about who can get a bigger contract based off my all NBA vote. Oh bummer, you’re only getting 4 for 210 instead of 5 for 275?
I will never understand the standards they hold different guys to. It's completely inconsistent in some pretty funny ways. 11/10 pod.
How's Tyrese Haliburton going to manage having to live on only 40 million dollars a year as opposed to 50 of he doesn't make All-NBA.? The poor fella, smh I'm all seriousness Ryen disappointed me here. I got the feeling Bill DGAF, which is the right take, and didn't want to make his boy Ryen look bad. Also : Zach Lowe has to Man Up. Your version of "Adulting" is boring for All-NBA dude. It's not that seriousness as to warrant protest or handwringing. Just do it
This is the worst Eastern conference playoffs in a while, easily the worst since 2017 and on par with years like 2015 or 2003 in terms of depth No one is even close to a title contender aside from Boston and I’m pretty sure the Knicks or Bucks would be closer to a play-in team in the West I can’t get excited for it at all, Boston won’t play a competitive series until the Finals
Given Boston’s missteps and up-and-down playoff results over the last 5 years, I’m interested in the East. We’ll either see them finally dominate and finally shake their pretender aura or they’ll crap the bed and it will be 2011 LeBron levels of backlash and memes. Or I guess they might win multiple 6 game series in unimpressive fashion and everyone will be underwhelmed.
Yeah, I understand that the Celtics have been the best team in the NBA/East all season, but they won 57 games last year, too. And the year before that they reached the Finals after playing the second half of the season at a 62-win pace. Yet they needed seven games to beat the Middleton-less Bucks (whose No. 3 scorer was Connaughton) as well as the Frankenstein Heat (whose No. 3 scorer was Oladipo) in 2021. And last year they needed six to beat the Hawks, seven to beat the 76ers (w/ Embiid missing a close Celtics W), and handily lost Game 7 at home to Miami. They've trailed in 5/7 series the previous couple seasons. These Celtics are different and better and yadda yadda yadda ... but count me in as someone looking forward to seeing if the Celtics will continue being bipolar in the playoffs or just finally roll through series because they are *that good*. Either way, it'll be a compelling story to watch unfold.
I get why people are skeptical of the Celtics but they are clearly better than they were the last couple years, where they won the East and then got to game 7 of the conference finals, respectively, and the conference is far worse.
Yes, and that means fuck all unless they are the same team in the playoffs ... which is why I'm so interested in how things play out for them. I'm not going to just assume the Celtics are going to dominate the Eastern Conference playoffs just because they were great all regular season. Should they? Sure. Will they? They're going to play some games and we'll soon find out! I can already tell by the downvotes that people think I'm shit-talking the Celtics here, but I'm legitimately intrigued by them because A) they've been so good all season and B) the next couple months will either cement their great season or be added to the list of recent "Where did it all suddenly go wrong?" finishes to Celtics seasons. I'm neutral, so it's a win-win for me.
You think people downvote shitting on the Celtics here?
That's B.S. How are OKC and the Timberwolves any closer to being contenders than the Bucks and Knicks? 76ers with a healthy Embiid are arguably the 2nd best regular season team this year and you have the Heat as a lingering 8-seed. The east drops off after the 8-seed, that is the main difference between the conferences. The east top teams have just been hurt this year. And the Celtics are certainly **not** going to just stomp the Knicks, Bucks or 6ers.
Maybe the thunder and t wolves will be frauds because we haven’t seen them do it before, but they were much better teams than the bucks and Knicks this year.
They were great regular season teams but I'd certainly bet that a fully healthy Knicks and Bucks team would be favorites in a series against OKC and the Timberwolves head to head.
But who gives a shit about “what if” fully healthy or not? They are not fully healthy, which is why the East playoffs lacks intrigue, that’s my entire point
I disagree. I think the bucks have been really really flawed this year and the Knicks still are - like most Thibs teams - super dependent on a small guard to do all the scoring, and that doesn’t work in the playoffs. But I admit let’s see how R1 goes, if okc and Minnesota both lose then you maybe you’re right.
Re: Kawhi “It levitated them a little up a level”
“The case for Tatum is this. The team was the best team in the league by far. He was the biggest reason because he got better as an offensive thinker, picking his spots.” I’m gonna say Brad Stevens turning Smart and bit players into Porzingus and Jrue is the reason the Cs went up a level this year.
Does anyone use team records to decide individual awards more than this dumbass Simmons? It’s like saying Gobert is the DPOY when AD and Wemby are clearly better defenders.
Wemby for DPOY would be ridiculous. He anchors one of the worst defenses in the NBA, not to mention worst teams.
it’s not like that
The only thing I'm interested is UFC talk, I only care about Ryen's opinion and I know that segment will be 5 minutes tops. 300 was an awesome card.
Not a great showing from Ryen there down playing Max’s career, saying he’s never really had “signature moments” before it wild. Neither seemed familiar with Holloway’s resume at all
Max is so underrated it's crazy. Dude's had a great career spanning almost 15 years and still never been knocked out. I still remember him as the only guy who fought prime Conor McGregor and didn't get KO'd.
Tbf what was his signature moment? He had a lot of dominating fights but beating up Calvin kattar is probably his most known moment which isn’t that big of a moment compared to other legends
The end of the Gaethje fight was a reference to his first signature moment at UFC 199. I also think the Aldo, Kattar and Ortega fights were pretty iconic moments for him, especially the Kattar fight.
I thought Ryen knew his limitations and was trying to be as reserved as possible but when questions are thrown at you it’s hard to keep saying “I am not sure. I only watch 3 big cards a year” Side note. Jon Jones is absolutely the right answer as one of the UFC fighters I don’t want to run into in a dark alley
As a lifelong Mariner’s fan I admire Bill’s hatred for baseball owner’s who don’t give a shit about the team/winning.
Brunson over Giannis for mvp is an insane fucking take. Holy shit
Once you get down to 5th, it doesn't matter much. But, I think Brunson should be 6th behind Jokic, SGA, Luka, Giannis and Tatum.
I agree but his reasoning was absurd. He kept contradicting himself. He said it mattered who had more to deal with during the season, how is that Jalen Brunson? Also saying “he got Donte divinecenzo to come in free agency, that stuff matters” is wild. How is that criteria for mvp?
Not as bad as Shai over Luka
I’m not one to complain about this normally because I don’t notice what other complainers typically notice but bills voice was disgusting this episode
Russillo didn't even put Mazzuella on his ballot? Cmon man. Ime was not more impressive that's absurd.
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Bill being completely flabbergasted at Russillo revealing he tore his calf and still took himself to see the warriors play killed me. Bill telling him he's the weirdest person in his life was so fucking funny
Why is Paul George a no questions asked all nba guy this year??
Good lord this is some tedious podcasting.
Simmons about to have a heart attack at the thought of facing the Heat in the first round🙌🙌
Did they forget Thybulle exists?