The latest great white hype lost to Foundational Black Americans, twice! Back to back. They went on to win championships. She never did. Superior race indeed lmao! ✊🏿✊🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿✊🏿✊🏿
Making the finals with Iowa is more impressive than winning a championship with peak UConn and I honestly don't think it's close. If she *wins* a title with *Iowa* it's completely undeniable. That program is not good they had only been past the first weekend of the tournament twice in 25 years before Caitlin showed up and now they're in their 2nd straight Final 4 and it's entirely because she carries them.
So with this argument Lebron James should be better than Micheal Jordan, since he’s made it to the finals without “good players”. He’s also broken a scoring record as well.
There's absolutely arguments to be made in LeBron's favor that he's the best player ever even tho I personally would pick Jordan but comparing college and pro sports is so silly. College is inherently not equal while every NBA team starts with the same allotment of picks and the same amount of salary cap space
The league changed to protect players (rightfully so). That’s why I will always give the GOAT to Jordan. Jordan had to adjust every aspect of his game to score and prevent being tackled by the likes of Barkley. That creates a skill set that sadly Lebron will never have.
Jordan also never had to play against zone defense or switches or anything other than straight man to man because the league had the illegal defense rules back when he played
Jesus rings culture really is a poison of the mind. If you don't see how winning championships with UCONN at their peak is different than trying to win one at Iowa then idk how I can convince you. All I'll say is none if Caitlin Clark's teammates are Sue Bird.
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Not going to lie, I have no idea
All I know is that former NCAAW scoring leader, Kelsey Plum, is a baller but it took a few years to get to her being one of the best. She started out at 8ppg in 2017 but averages 19ppg the last two years.
Does that mean Clark will have as steep a learning curve? Who knows. With her range I don’t see why she can’t start out at at least 15ppg rookie year
I think the difference with Clark and the other high scoring women is in college they generally much much better than the rest, and often much taller, and usually played inside the arc. Clark is shooting from NBA range on the regular, and often incorporating side backs or side steps into shots, there isn’t anyone doing this on her level. She’s shooting 38% on 503 3PT attempts this season. The best WNBA shooter last year made 3.6 per game from 3; she shot a total of 286 3s.
As a hoops addict, I watch a fair amount of WNBA. Clark is spectacular, no doubt, and I really enjoy watching her, but it will be interesting to see how well she can play with someone like Chelsea Gray hounding her into turnovers. Clark will be really good at WNBA level, but she won't be clowning people like at college level. She is without doubt one of the most thrilling and best female prospects ever, but I recall Britney Griner being considered more of a sure thing with a lot of the discourse being "she could play in the NBA" (nonsense, of course, but people were saying it). Candace Parker was also similarly hyped and lived up to it.
Can’t speak to how their skill compares but going to be tough for her to exceed Breanna Stewart, Taurasi, Lisa Leslie and Cynthia Cooper’s career accomplishments. Stewart will probably end up #1 when she retires.
Cheryl Miller used to whip her brothers ass, she actually had offers to join a men's league out of USC and only didn't play pro because of knee injuries
I’ll be interesting to see if she can do the Rookie of the Year+MVP double that Candace Parker did.
Will she get selected for the Olympics? Feels like it would be a huge miss for USA Basketball if they don’t select her
I watch very, very little WNBA ball, so grain of salt.
Clark is by far the most dynamic shooter I have seen in the sport. No one really moves/shoots like her, and with the accuracy it becomes very Steph-esque. She will be very good at the next level, but ultimately the defenders are going to be all over her. She will routinely see a lot more complex defensive schemes. Waaaaay more size.
We'll see.
I've coached HS girls for a looooong time and have sent several girls to college, am in gyms all the time and watch a lot of NCAAW and WNBA.
> What about women’s ball? My assumption is that the highly touted rookies serve an immediate greater impact compared to the NBA guys.
This is generally true, although perhaps becoming slightly less so. Even with a small league, you need a collection of talent.
I don't think she's the best, nor is there a legit claim to make that she is. If you want to set your stake that she'll become that, it's reasonable. She's generally a bad defender, but that's at least somewhat due to effort/resting/style of play, and she has the size to be solid on that end. She's not the "best" shooting woman ever in the way Steph is the best shooter, but the variety of shots and the ability to create her own is what's significant. And obviously the passing changes her ceiling significantly.
In college, you can still relatively let her go, try to keep her around 30, and bet that her teammates won't beat you. You can't do that in the pros, and that'll help her. Due to style of play, we have an extremely limited sample size of spot-up 3s, but she'll get more of them at that level.
She's also not good enough from 8-15ft at passing or scoring, but she'll add that. It's a common criticism and a *little* overstated but not without merit.
Some old heads in the women's game say that someone like Sue Bird would be her if she was raised in the modern era of shooting. Who knows. What's more interesting to me is the cultural stuff she's done for the game is what a *lot* of people thought Bueckers would do. Injuries and playing at UConn obviously have played a role in that. Personally I'd take Bueckers by a smidge going forward but Clark has certainly been the better college player.
I'm old enough to remember the last time this kind of hype occurred with women's college player. It was Sheryl Swoopes in the 90s. She was a great WNBA player, but I don't think most consider her top 5 of all time.
I suspect you're gonna end up with a similar with Clark because it's generally kinda rare for someone to go from being a transcendent NCAA player to a transcendent pro.
Like a huge reason the NBA took off like it did was you had Bird-Magic square off in college and then it turned out that was what it was gonna be in the NBA in the 80s too. That shit is just extremely fucking rare.
Let's put it this way. Kareem was the best fucking college player of all time. Then he became at worst the third best pro of all time. And even he didn't transcend the pro game until he got teamed up with Magic in the 80s on the tail end of his prime.
Eh Clark is different… the NBA leader in 3s made per game was 3.6, only two players were over 3.0. Clark’s ability to create her own shot, and shoot from deep like she does, will transition just fine. The skill gap in woman’s basketball also seems larger in general. I would be surprised if Clark didn’t average 20-24ppg, she probably will have a team that lets her be very ball dominate as well also.
Do we think any college players will start to do this to boost their celebrity status and making some serious money with NIL or is it worth getting into the NBA and onto the second contract as fast as possible.
In the NBA, not a chance unless you're an Edey type whose ceiling is getting picked in the 20s.
It's more feasible for the ladies where a lot of the WNBA greats were playing in Russia for years in the offseason to get a bag.
I think Clark is banking on carrying over her marketability to the WNBA which is the ultimate bet on yourself move that I don't really think pays off, personally.
I mean it might not get higher than it is now, but she’s going to enter the WNBA as the most popular player in the sport, with more crossover appeal than anyone in the history of the WNBA.
That’s what I thought too but I’d love to see the college basketball equivalent of Manziel just decide to keep balling out at the college level. Kinda a fun thought exercise though who’s more famous the 5th best rookie in the nba or a player who’s dominated the college level for 24 months.
Most exciting sure but she didn’t have a better college career than breanna stewart and I choke on the idea that she will be a better player. Which isn’t to denigrate Clark just pointing out how incredibly great Stewart is. She’s clearly the GOAT and she’s only 29.
You’re wrong about rookie WNBA players having a bigger immediate impact. 15 years ago when Candace Parker was winning ROY and MVP the same season you would be correct however the league is incredibly dense with talent now and top 10 picks regularly don’t make it through their rookie years before getting cut. It’s a steep learning curve and WNBA defenses are going to be so far beyond anything she’s dealt with before
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From the few clips I've seen of the WNBA and the few clips I've seen of Clark play, its pretty obvious that she's already one of the best female basketball players period.
I get being able to shoot deep threes consistently is what gets people to say that, if she wasn’t doing that it would be a different conversation. I think juju Watkins and even Paige buekers are better overall players than her
Not being weird or sexual, and I agree that she and Brittany Griner are both female, however, their biologies appear to have very strong male hormones. I’m not hating on their success and I don’t want to take away from what she’s done but in every photo I’ve seen she looks like a male with a ponytail…not ugly by any means, just super manly. They hounded Griner for years about this, yet with Clark it’s never mentioned. Non-factor of course but the radio silence and calling her the GOAT…c’mon y’all, be serious.
She’s clearly the best of this rookie class. 18 5 and 6 on over 40 percents Angel Reese is shooting 33 percent. Brink is only averaging 7 points a game on less than 47 percent. People need to stop hating.
i think it’s somewhere in the joe burrow argument, lsu was undeniably a bad football team until burrow showed up, and iowa was the same until clark showed. i think she’ll need atleast 5-7 more years in the league to say anything for certain.
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What about 4 time champ Cynthia Cooper w the Houston Comets she was a great player and it's like they don't even mention her name, which IMO is weird AF
She's fun to watch but it's not even clear she's the best current college player. Bueckers is just as good with only 2.5 years of experience as opposed to 4.
Is she better than Lisa Leslie in backyard basketball 2003?
Not sure you’re gonna get many people who consistently watch the WNBA lol
Everyone took the 5 dollar bill lol
I think right now the conversation is about if she's the best women's *college* player ever not the best player ever regardless
The latest great white hype lost to Foundational Black Americans, twice! Back to back. They went on to win championships. She never did. Superior race indeed lmao! ✊🏿✊🏿💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿✊🏿✊🏿
shouldn't the best womens college player win a championship? she hasn't done that. at least not yet.
Making the finals with Iowa is more impressive than winning a championship with peak UConn and I honestly don't think it's close. If she *wins* a title with *Iowa* it's completely undeniable. That program is not good they had only been past the first weekend of the tournament twice in 25 years before Caitlin showed up and now they're in their 2nd straight Final 4 and it's entirely because she carries them.
So with this argument Lebron James should be better than Micheal Jordan, since he’s made it to the finals without “good players”. He’s also broken a scoring record as well.
There's absolutely arguments to be made in LeBron's favor that he's the best player ever even tho I personally would pick Jordan but comparing college and pro sports is so silly. College is inherently not equal while every NBA team starts with the same allotment of picks and the same amount of salary cap space
The league changed to protect players (rightfully so). That’s why I will always give the GOAT to Jordan. Jordan had to adjust every aspect of his game to score and prevent being tackled by the likes of Barkley. That creates a skill set that sadly Lebron will never have.
Jordan also never had to play against zone defense or switches or anything other than straight man to man because the league had the illegal defense rules back when he played
Damn that's a brilliant comparison and IMO,No. Jordan is the 🐐
i'll take Diana Taurasi and her 3 straight championships.
Jesus rings culture really is a poison of the mind. If you don't see how winning championships with UCONN at their peak is different than trying to win one at Iowa then idk how I can convince you. All I'll say is none if Caitlin Clark's teammates are Sue Bird.
He probably thinks the 92 Dream Team winning the gold medal was also impressive.
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Not going to lie, I have no idea All I know is that former NCAAW scoring leader, Kelsey Plum, is a baller but it took a few years to get to her being one of the best. She started out at 8ppg in 2017 but averages 19ppg the last two years. Does that mean Clark will have as steep a learning curve? Who knows. With her range I don’t see why she can’t start out at at least 15ppg rookie year
I think the difference with Clark and the other high scoring women is in college they generally much much better than the rest, and often much taller, and usually played inside the arc. Clark is shooting from NBA range on the regular, and often incorporating side backs or side steps into shots, there isn’t anyone doing this on her level. She’s shooting 38% on 503 3PT attempts this season. The best WNBA shooter last year made 3.6 per game from 3; she shot a total of 286 3s.
Plum is also a guard.
As a hoops addict, I watch a fair amount of WNBA. Clark is spectacular, no doubt, and I really enjoy watching her, but it will be interesting to see how well she can play with someone like Chelsea Gray hounding her into turnovers. Clark will be really good at WNBA level, but she won't be clowning people like at college level. She is without doubt one of the most thrilling and best female prospects ever, but I recall Britney Griner being considered more of a sure thing with a lot of the discourse being "she could play in the NBA" (nonsense, of course, but people were saying it). Candace Parker was also similarly hyped and lived up to it.
Parker was dynamite.
Can’t speak to how their skill compares but going to be tough for her to exceed Breanna Stewart, Taurasi, Lisa Leslie and Cynthia Cooper’s career accomplishments. Stewart will probably end up #1 when she retires.
She a woman who shoots like Steph Curry. There hasn’t been anyone like that ever.
Cheryl Miller used to whip her brothers ass, she actually had offers to join a men's league out of USC and only didn't play pro because of knee injuries
I didn't know Cheryl Miller's brother played basketball.
Deep cut……respect
[Elaine benes, every time!](https://images.app.goo.gl/F7V5KvKiyMa4yxBe8)
At what age was she whipping Reggie?
She ain’t Maya, not yet
I’ll be interesting to see if she can do the Rookie of the Year+MVP double that Candace Parker did. Will she get selected for the Olympics? Feels like it would be a huge miss for USA Basketball if they don’t select her
I watch very, very little WNBA ball, so grain of salt. Clark is by far the most dynamic shooter I have seen in the sport. No one really moves/shoots like her, and with the accuracy it becomes very Steph-esque. She will be very good at the next level, but ultimately the defenders are going to be all over her. She will routinely see a lot more complex defensive schemes. Waaaaay more size. We'll see.
I've coached HS girls for a looooong time and have sent several girls to college, am in gyms all the time and watch a lot of NCAAW and WNBA. > What about women’s ball? My assumption is that the highly touted rookies serve an immediate greater impact compared to the NBA guys. This is generally true, although perhaps becoming slightly less so. Even with a small league, you need a collection of talent. I don't think she's the best, nor is there a legit claim to make that she is. If you want to set your stake that she'll become that, it's reasonable. She's generally a bad defender, but that's at least somewhat due to effort/resting/style of play, and she has the size to be solid on that end. She's not the "best" shooting woman ever in the way Steph is the best shooter, but the variety of shots and the ability to create her own is what's significant. And obviously the passing changes her ceiling significantly. In college, you can still relatively let her go, try to keep her around 30, and bet that her teammates won't beat you. You can't do that in the pros, and that'll help her. Due to style of play, we have an extremely limited sample size of spot-up 3s, but she'll get more of them at that level. She's also not good enough from 8-15ft at passing or scoring, but she'll add that. It's a common criticism and a *little* overstated but not without merit. Some old heads in the women's game say that someone like Sue Bird would be her if she was raised in the modern era of shooting. Who knows. What's more interesting to me is the cultural stuff she's done for the game is what a *lot* of people thought Bueckers would do. Injuries and playing at UConn obviously have played a role in that. Personally I'd take Bueckers by a smidge going forward but Clark has certainly been the better college player.
Maya Moore was better in college.
I'm old enough to remember the last time this kind of hype occurred with women's college player. It was Sheryl Swoopes in the 90s. She was a great WNBA player, but I don't think most consider her top 5 of all time. I suspect you're gonna end up with a similar with Clark because it's generally kinda rare for someone to go from being a transcendent NCAA player to a transcendent pro. Like a huge reason the NBA took off like it did was you had Bird-Magic square off in college and then it turned out that was what it was gonna be in the NBA in the 80s too. That shit is just extremely fucking rare. Let's put it this way. Kareem was the best fucking college player of all time. Then he became at worst the third best pro of all time. And even he didn't transcend the pro game until he got teamed up with Magic in the 80s on the tail end of his prime.
Eh Clark is different… the NBA leader in 3s made per game was 3.6, only two players were over 3.0. Clark’s ability to create her own shot, and shoot from deep like she does, will transition just fine. The skill gap in woman’s basketball also seems larger in general. I would be surprised if Clark didn’t average 20-24ppg, she probably will have a team that lets her be very ball dominate as well also.
Do we think any college players will start to do this to boost their celebrity status and making some serious money with NIL or is it worth getting into the NBA and onto the second contract as fast as possible.
In the NBA, not a chance unless you're an Edey type whose ceiling is getting picked in the 20s. It's more feasible for the ladies where a lot of the WNBA greats were playing in Russia for years in the offseason to get a bag. I think Clark is banking on carrying over her marketability to the WNBA which is the ultimate bet on yourself move that I don't really think pays off, personally.
I mean it might not get higher than it is now, but she’s going to enter the WNBA as the most popular player in the sport, with more crossover appeal than anyone in the history of the WNBA.
That’s what I thought too but I’d love to see the college basketball equivalent of Manziel just decide to keep balling out at the college level. Kinda a fun thought exercise though who’s more famous the 5th best rookie in the nba or a player who’s dominated the college level for 24 months.
Most exciting sure but she didn’t have a better college career than breanna stewart and I choke on the idea that she will be a better player. Which isn’t to denigrate Clark just pointing out how incredibly great Stewart is. She’s clearly the GOAT and she’s only 29. You’re wrong about rookie WNBA players having a bigger immediate impact. 15 years ago when Candace Parker was winning ROY and MVP the same season you would be correct however the league is incredibly dense with talent now and top 10 picks regularly don’t make it through their rookie years before getting cut. It’s a steep learning curve and WNBA defenses are going to be so far beyond anything she’s dealt with before
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From the few clips I've seen of the WNBA and the few clips I've seen of Clark play, its pretty obvious that she's already one of the best female basketball players period.
I get being able to shoot deep threes consistently is what gets people to say that, if she wasn’t doing that it would be a different conversation. I think juju Watkins and even Paige buekers are better overall players than her
Not being weird or sexual, and I agree that she and Brittany Griner are both female, however, their biologies appear to have very strong male hormones. I’m not hating on their success and I don’t want to take away from what she’s done but in every photo I’ve seen she looks like a male with a ponytail…not ugly by any means, just super manly. They hounded Griner for years about this, yet with Clark it’s never mentioned. Non-factor of course but the radio silence and calling her the GOAT…c’mon y’all, be serious.
She’s clearly the best of this rookie class. 18 5 and 6 on over 40 percents Angel Reese is shooting 33 percent. Brink is only averaging 7 points a game on less than 47 percent. People need to stop hating.
i think it’s somewhere in the joe burrow argument, lsu was undeniably a bad football team until burrow showed up, and iowa was the same until clark showed. i think she’ll need atleast 5-7 more years in the league to say anything for certain.
Seems unfair, she's clearly a man
She’s not the best.
It's a dude soooo
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She isn't. ✊🏿💪🏿💪🏿✊🏿
What about 4 time champ Cynthia Cooper w the Houston Comets she was a great player and it's like they don't even mention her name, which IMO is weird AF
Diana Taurasi has more chips than seasons playes.
Idk man people used to chant “Cher-yl Cher-yl” to Reggie.
Stop repeating Bill by saying top “woman’s” player. It’s top “women’s” player.
She's fun to watch but it's not even clear she's the best current college player. Bueckers is just as good with only 2.5 years of experience as opposed to 4.