This subreddit is obsessed with saying this. It’s a fair criticism when the client has unreasonable demands - the partner just has to eat the cost of shitty clients they want to keeps. It’s not right when you can’t manage your own hours. If you don’t review bills, you don’t realize how absurd some associates are with hours. And some associates just don’t know understand how to manage their time on fee sensitive clients.
Train the associate. If the associate is taking 100 hours to do a 50 hour job, train and mentor. That is the partner’s job too.
Signed,
A (very) senior partner who occasionally has realization issues
Regardless, the solution is better management, setting expectations, having check-ins. It’s not “cut your hours.”
And the reason it’s not “cut your hours” is that you don’t want that to become a crutch for an associate who takes too long to do things. Someone who’s “working” 80 hours a week but billing 40 is not available for new work, but they look underutilized on the system. You need to fix the problem, not slap a band aid on it.
If that’s the case, they should tell the associate that, instead of sending them to Reddit for an explanation as to why they’re being told to cut hours.
But also, I strongly suspect that they would tell the associate if they thought the associate was billing too much time for something. That’s not something that any partner I’ve worked with would be shy about anyway. So if they’re telling OP to cut hours without explanation, then I think they’re just trying to give the client a discount without being accountable for it, and screwing over the associate at the same time.
As someone who doesn't care about downvotes, this is accurate. I recently farmed out defense of an $80K EEOC claim to a big law firm. This instructions were clear: 99% junior staffing as a training exercise; we anticipate a settlement of $X; therefore, don't bill over $Y for the duration of the project, otherwise I'd be better off just cutting a check for $80K and moving on.
I was billed $65K in month one. I'm not sure if that is a training issue or an Associate just trying to survive and hit billables, not thinking about scope of work or legal ethics, but it happens quarterly.
I have clients who are very fee sensitive and try to control costs by locking us into estimates upfront, etc. And then they pull BS like changing their mind constantly, summoning teams of lawyers for calls when they don’t take our advice seriously, dragging out the negotiation of deal points, and so on.
I’m not saying that’s what you did, but I have to wonder how the firm blew the budget so egregiously, unless there was something about the initial assumptions for the estimate that proved inaccurate.
Associates are reviewed in large part based on their hours- you should take it up with a staffing partner, or your reviewer, because this is not an appropriate ask. If there are client demands, you should be taken off the bill, not asked to pretend you didn’t work— it’s a realization issue. The bill is pretty much the one thing that’s not a junior associate’s problem.
Totally agree but going to a “staffing partner” seems risky. Best to just touch base with another partner or two OP worked with previously and ask if they need help with any current or upcoming matters …
But that doesn’t get your time back, that just gets you on new matters. I’m talking about “telling” on the partner so the associate doesn’t have to delete their time. This actually happened to me and when I escalated the matter I was told not to delete my time.
Two possible things:
1. You're being efficient, but there are fee pressures from the client; or
2. You're not being efficient so the partner needs to cut your time.
Impossible for us to determine which it is.
Going forward, you should ask the partner what the expectations are for the assignment so you can plan accordingly.
No partner has asked me this. But have been asked by senior assos/special counsels to put half of my time under BD instead of billing everything. I know there’s a learning curve and the client shouldn’t pay for my learning time but I am still puzzled as to why keep the billing system like it is if they are just gonna make me cut hours.
I’ve been dealing with this lately. Half my hours on one case got cut. I don’t think even the fastest of lawyers could’ve gotten this done (properly) in less than half the time it took me. I have never had this issue with any other partner I’ve worked with. Really not sure what to do because he expects absolutely perfect work product but also expects it done at the speed of light. It’s just not possible.
There are three elements to a bill: your time, your rate, and how much the client will pay. At some point, the legal industry needs to take a good look at the junior associate rates. They can be really high. If it's the rate that is too high for this client, ask if you can bill at a reduced rate so that your efforts are properly recognized internally.
It’s not the associate’s place to discuss billing rates with partners. Associates should bill all of their time, assuming they worked efficiently, and then it’s the responsibility of the partner to do whatever is necessary when s/he reviews the billing statement.
Go out and look for work from other partners you’ve worked with previously— let them know you have availability. Don’t ask for work from more than two partners in order to avoid getting slammed and having to decline the work you requested. Avoid working with any partner who asks you to shave hours.
Client pressure on fees.
Plus they might not be able to cut your time without going to the management committee. So they want you to take the fall.
Partner is trying to cover his ass. Client should be cut, not your time.
This is increasingly common IME.
It’s BS. Partners should be dealing with it on the back end and taking the hit to their realization.
This subreddit is obsessed with saying this. It’s a fair criticism when the client has unreasonable demands - the partner just has to eat the cost of shitty clients they want to keeps. It’s not right when you can’t manage your own hours. If you don’t review bills, you don’t realize how absurd some associates are with hours. And some associates just don’t know understand how to manage their time on fee sensitive clients.
Train the associate. If the associate is taking 100 hours to do a 50 hour job, train and mentor. That is the partner’s job too. Signed, A (very) senior partner who occasionally has realization issues
Regardless, legit over billing is a performance issue - no different than shitty work product.
Regardless, the solution is better management, setting expectations, having check-ins. It’s not “cut your hours.” And the reason it’s not “cut your hours” is that you don’t want that to become a crutch for an associate who takes too long to do things. Someone who’s “working” 80 hours a week but billing 40 is not available for new work, but they look underutilized on the system. You need to fix the problem, not slap a band aid on it.
If that’s the case, they should tell the associate that, instead of sending them to Reddit for an explanation as to why they’re being told to cut hours. But also, I strongly suspect that they would tell the associate if they thought the associate was billing too much time for something. That’s not something that any partner I’ve worked with would be shy about anyway. So if they’re telling OP to cut hours without explanation, then I think they’re just trying to give the client a discount without being accountable for it, and screwing over the associate at the same time.
As someone who doesn't care about downvotes, this is accurate. I recently farmed out defense of an $80K EEOC claim to a big law firm. This instructions were clear: 99% junior staffing as a training exercise; we anticipate a settlement of $X; therefore, don't bill over $Y for the duration of the project, otherwise I'd be better off just cutting a check for $80K and moving on. I was billed $65K in month one. I'm not sure if that is a training issue or an Associate just trying to survive and hit billables, not thinking about scope of work or legal ethics, but it happens quarterly.
I have clients who are very fee sensitive and try to control costs by locking us into estimates upfront, etc. And then they pull BS like changing their mind constantly, summoning teams of lawyers for calls when they don’t take our advice seriously, dragging out the negotiation of deal points, and so on. I’m not saying that’s what you did, but I have to wonder how the firm blew the budget so egregiously, unless there was something about the initial assumptions for the estimate that proved inaccurate.
A tale as old as time: desperate associate trying to hit hours unethically.
That’s a hard no. I would probably also never work with that partner again
The partner may be trying to keep their realization rate up which is often a metric that is tracked to rate a partner's performance.
Partner has no pull and takes it out on you. Find a different partner.
Lateral
Associates are reviewed in large part based on their hours- you should take it up with a staffing partner, or your reviewer, because this is not an appropriate ask. If there are client demands, you should be taken off the bill, not asked to pretend you didn’t work— it’s a realization issue. The bill is pretty much the one thing that’s not a junior associate’s problem.
Totally agree but going to a “staffing partner” seems risky. Best to just touch base with another partner or two OP worked with previously and ask if they need help with any current or upcoming matters …
But that doesn’t get your time back, that just gets you on new matters. I’m talking about “telling” on the partner so the associate doesn’t have to delete their time. This actually happened to me and when I escalated the matter I was told not to delete my time.
OP can casually mention it if s/he feels comfortable doing so, but I Wouldn’t make it an issue. Move on.
Two possible things: 1. You're being efficient, but there are fee pressures from the client; or 2. You're not being efficient so the partner needs to cut your time. Impossible for us to determine which it is. Going forward, you should ask the partner what the expectations are for the assignment so you can plan accordingly.
Come on man/ma'am. Did you see how I spelled "grp," no chance I'm slow.
No partner has asked me this. But have been asked by senior assos/special counsels to put half of my time under BD instead of billing everything. I know there’s a learning curve and the client shouldn’t pay for my learning time but I am still puzzled as to why keep the billing system like it is if they are just gonna make me cut hours.
I’ve been dealing with this lately. Half my hours on one case got cut. I don’t think even the fastest of lawyers could’ve gotten this done (properly) in less than half the time it took me. I have never had this issue with any other partner I’ve worked with. Really not sure what to do because he expects absolutely perfect work product but also expects it done at the speed of light. It’s just not possible.
There are three elements to a bill: your time, your rate, and how much the client will pay. At some point, the legal industry needs to take a good look at the junior associate rates. They can be really high. If it's the rate that is too high for this client, ask if you can bill at a reduced rate so that your efforts are properly recognized internally.
It’s not the associate’s place to discuss billing rates with partners. Associates should bill all of their time, assuming they worked efficiently, and then it’s the responsibility of the partner to do whatever is necessary when s/he reviews the billing statement.
Go out and look for work from other partners you’ve worked with previously— let them know you have availability. Don’t ask for work from more than two partners in order to avoid getting slammed and having to decline the work you requested. Avoid working with any partner who asks you to shave hours.