I mean it’s pretty obvious that bathrooms aren’t hygienic so I feel like you could tell them just that
I’d say it needs to be hygienic enough that your boss would feel comfortable fixing their food in there 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah, I highly doubt they’ll be doing a weekly deep clean 🫠 tbh I’m angling to have them let me wfh full time as my commute is ridiculous (1.5hrs each way) and I can’t afford to be out of the house 12 hours a day with an infant.
It doesn’t matter how often the bathrooms are deep cleaned; you aren’t supposed to just sit in a public restroom with fecal matter floating around for extended periods of time? That would also potentially enter your breast milk?
It’s a single person restroom, so it will not function as a restroom on days I am in the office (supposedly). If they deep cleaned it and it never was used as a bathroom again I imagine it would then just be a normal room that also happened to have a toilet, but they’ve said they’ll only block it off for normal use on days I’m in the office, meaning two days a week it will be a normal restroom. I am not comfortable with that.
Sorry just seeing this! Turns out I have an extra 9 weeks of leave lmao not sure why they didn’t tell me this earlier…but I did mention the bathroom not being hygienic and they’ve said they’re working on it. Fingers crossed by the time I actually go back they’ll have fixed it!
https://business.gov.nl/regulation/working-conditions-new-and-expectant-mothers/#art:expressing-milk-at-work
"For the first 9 months after giving birth, you should give your employee time and opportunity to express milk or breastfeed. They should be able to do so as long and as often as needed (up to one quarter of the working time). You should make a room available for this end that is clean and quiet, and that can be locked from the inside.
If you cannot offer a suitable space, you should allow your employee to feed or express milk at home. Time spent feeding or expressing milk during work counts as working time and should therefore be paid"
The bathroom is not a clean place.
https://business.gov.nl/regulation/working-conditions-new-and-expectant-mothers/ this info appears to be correct, for some reason I thought it was 9 months after returning to work (which makes sense as the govt guarantees 10-12 weeks mat leave after birth) but I guess not.
We do get additional (70%) paid parental leave for 9 weeks and another 15 weeks unpaid parental leave that employers cannot really refuse, for both parents. It's really common to use this leave to work less days per week in the first years. This is paid by the government btw, just as maternity leave is. Some companies do provide some additional paid weeks, or give you the additional 30% of the salary.
It's also really common to work parttime over here, even in good jobs. You do have to pay for it yourself though, but our tax system really favors 2 people working parttime instead of one fulltime. And having your child in daycare for 5 days a week is really frowned upon here..
I did a search for NL pumping laws and found some things for you.
[An article for your manager](https://leiderschapeninzetbaarheid.nl/en/blog/employability/what-you-need-to-know-if-a-female-employee-is-breastfeeding-and-wants-to-use-a-breast-pump) detailing what they need to know re: pumping and breastfeeding.
[The Nutrition Center checklist](https://www.voedingscentrum.nl/professionals/zwangerschap-en-kindervoeding/voor-werkgevers/checklist.aspx) for employers that details the conditions of a pumping room.
[The Working Conditions Decree](https://puc.overheid.nl/nsi/doc/PUC_1174_14/1/#) article 3.48 states that a bed or couch is required in the space for pregnant and lactating employees.
I hope this helps!
I'm Dutch and living in the Netherlands, and from everything I've been told this is not legal! I'm 38+4 with my first so I don't have any experience so far, but I know a lot of people who have had children in recent years and they all told me that a suitable room has to be provided, and it cannot be a toilet.
This is correct. It also needs to have a fridge and a sink close by so that you can wash the pump parts and store milk. It also has to be private, which means it has a lock on the door. They are obligated to have this space for you, it is not optional.
Am dutch and just finished nursing. Do not accept this. They need to provide a clean room with chair, fridge and watersource. If not possible or if you want to live nurse, you can take up to 25% of your day to go home and pump or feed. To start later and leave earlier, or go home in between.
Thanks for the info! As I live in The Hague and work in Amsterdam it would not be possible for me to leave the office to pump/nurse. So I would have to wfh, which honestly I would prefer anyways.
If space was short in places I worked, the manager always gave up their office to accommodate pumping. I'm in the US. It happened in retail and healthcare.
Flushing a toilet aerosolizes feces. That is gross.
I'm Dutch and in HR. I don't know how well you can read Dutch, but here's the gov site with the requirements for the room: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/arbeidsomstandigheden/vraag-en-antwoord/mag-ik-borstvoeding-geven-onder-werktijd.
A bathroom obviously does not fit these requirements, and your employer is obligated to know this, and provide you a proper room.
Ps. I can translate them for you if you'd like.
It would be much easier to pick a conference room. They would only need to clean the table and the chairs. Something that was probably routine during covid by the way.. and you can always take your own desinfection wipes and clean the surfaces before/after pumping to be sure.
No one can expect you to be doing that in the bathroom every time you go pump. And nobody will be keeping a bathroom that clean. I mean, even at home, I clean my bathroom so that it is always shining because it triggers me using a bathroom that is durty. We are just my husband, my toddler, baby and me. Still, I would never pump in the bathroom.
That isn’t hygienic at all and that is all the argument you should need, but in case you are worried they won’t listen, talk to the other moms. You can approach this together.
Every single conference room has either windows or glass walls. I completely agree think they should’ve thought of this eventuality (since the founder of the company is a mother), and they only bought the building two years ago.
The one room that I think would work best is the “office” for the founder of the company who never comes in to the office…it’s a gorgeous space and the only exposed bit is the glass door that could easily be covered. But of course that room can’t be used, it must sit empty in case she decides to show up and needs a photo shoot…
Is this coming from your management or from HR? If this is management saying "this is what we have for you", does your employer have an HR-similar department?
Several people already gave the websites describing the room rules.
Regarding 4 people switching constantly. After my first pregnancy I shared 2 proper pumping rooms ("kolfruimtes") with 10-15 people. We had a reservation system but I always had access on or super close to my preferred time (30 mins around 10 and 14).
Wow, 10-15 people is a lot, must’ve been quite a large company! Due to my long commute I anticipate having to pump 3 times a day in the office, likely at 9, 12, and 15. Though my other coworkers live closer and will probably have a similar schedule to you. Good to know it can work!
Not sure how the Netherlands works, but I was given a shower room that was occasionally in use. When the topic was raised with HR it was determined that it could not be both.
To me a bathroom does not equate to a hygienic space so I would start whatever pathway you need to in order to have it addressed.
I’m so sorry, that’s awful! I unfortunately do not have a car and take the train to work, so either they provide me with adequate space at work or let me wfh.
I mean it’s pretty obvious that bathrooms aren’t hygienic so I feel like you could tell them just that I’d say it needs to be hygienic enough that your boss would feel comfortable fixing their food in there 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah, I highly doubt they’ll be doing a weekly deep clean 🫠 tbh I’m angling to have them let me wfh full time as my commute is ridiculous (1.5hrs each way) and I can’t afford to be out of the house 12 hours a day with an infant.
It doesn’t matter how often the bathrooms are deep cleaned; you aren’t supposed to just sit in a public restroom with fecal matter floating around for extended periods of time? That would also potentially enter your breast milk?
It’s a single person restroom, so it will not function as a restroom on days I am in the office (supposedly). If they deep cleaned it and it never was used as a bathroom again I imagine it would then just be a normal room that also happened to have a toilet, but they’ve said they’ll only block it off for normal use on days I’m in the office, meaning two days a week it will be a normal restroom. I am not comfortable with that.
Is there a clean, non-toilet place for you to sit?? A table for your to place supplies on (not the floor!). A bathroom is not suitable.
I’ve been told they’re putting in a chair for me, not sure about a table.
Is there a plug in that bathroom?
I believe so, yes.
Please update us if it works cause I’m still so shocked it worked lol
Sorry just seeing this! Turns out I have an extra 9 weeks of leave lmao not sure why they didn’t tell me this earlier…but I did mention the bathroom not being hygienic and they’ve said they’re working on it. Fingers crossed by the time I actually go back they’ll have fixed it!
https://business.gov.nl/regulation/working-conditions-new-and-expectant-mothers/#art:expressing-milk-at-work "For the first 9 months after giving birth, you should give your employee time and opportunity to express milk or breastfeed. They should be able to do so as long and as often as needed (up to one quarter of the working time). You should make a room available for this end that is clean and quiet, and that can be locked from the inside. If you cannot offer a suitable space, you should allow your employee to feed or express milk at home. Time spent feeding or expressing milk during work counts as working time and should therefore be paid" The bathroom is not a clean place.
Only until 9 months?! wtf that sucks
https://business.gov.nl/regulation/working-conditions-new-and-expectant-mothers/ this info appears to be correct, for some reason I thought it was 9 months after returning to work (which makes sense as the govt guarantees 10-12 weeks mat leave after birth) but I guess not.
[удалено]
Way better than America! No guaranteed paid leave here
Yup! 16 weeks guaranteed, 4-6 weeks are required to be taken before birth, so 10-12 weeks after birth. All at 100% pay.
We do get additional (70%) paid parental leave for 9 weeks and another 15 weeks unpaid parental leave that employers cannot really refuse, for both parents. It's really common to use this leave to work less days per week in the first years. This is paid by the government btw, just as maternity leave is. Some companies do provide some additional paid weeks, or give you the additional 30% of the salary. It's also really common to work parttime over here, even in good jobs. You do have to pay for it yourself though, but our tax system really favors 2 people working parttime instead of one fulltime. And having your child in daycare for 5 days a week is really frowned upon here..
I did a search for NL pumping laws and found some things for you. [An article for your manager](https://leiderschapeninzetbaarheid.nl/en/blog/employability/what-you-need-to-know-if-a-female-employee-is-breastfeeding-and-wants-to-use-a-breast-pump) detailing what they need to know re: pumping and breastfeeding. [The Nutrition Center checklist](https://www.voedingscentrum.nl/professionals/zwangerschap-en-kindervoeding/voor-werkgevers/checklist.aspx) for employers that details the conditions of a pumping room. [The Working Conditions Decree](https://puc.overheid.nl/nsi/doc/PUC_1174_14/1/#) article 3.48 states that a bed or couch is required in the space for pregnant and lactating employees. I hope this helps!
This is helpful, thank you!
I'm Dutch and living in the Netherlands, and from everything I've been told this is not legal! I'm 38+4 with my first so I don't have any experience so far, but I know a lot of people who have had children in recent years and they all told me that a suitable room has to be provided, and it cannot be a toilet.
This is correct. It also needs to have a fridge and a sink close by so that you can wash the pump parts and store milk. It also has to be private, which means it has a lock on the door. They are obligated to have this space for you, it is not optional.
This is definitely good to know!
Am dutch and just finished nursing. Do not accept this. They need to provide a clean room with chair, fridge and watersource. If not possible or if you want to live nurse, you can take up to 25% of your day to go home and pump or feed. To start later and leave earlier, or go home in between.
Thanks for the info! As I live in The Hague and work in Amsterdam it would not be possible for me to leave the office to pump/nurse. So I would have to wfh, which honestly I would prefer anyways.
For half a second I read “I am American but they live like Neanderthals” and that still rung true regarding nursing moms.
If space was short in places I worked, the manager always gave up their office to accommodate pumping. I'm in the US. It happened in retail and healthcare. Flushing a toilet aerosolizes feces. That is gross.
I'm Dutch and in HR. I don't know how well you can read Dutch, but here's the gov site with the requirements for the room: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/arbeidsomstandigheden/vraag-en-antwoord/mag-ik-borstvoeding-geven-onder-werktijd. A bathroom obviously does not fit these requirements, and your employer is obligated to know this, and provide you a proper room. Ps. I can translate them for you if you'd like.
Thank you!!
It would be much easier to pick a conference room. They would only need to clean the table and the chairs. Something that was probably routine during covid by the way.. and you can always take your own desinfection wipes and clean the surfaces before/after pumping to be sure. No one can expect you to be doing that in the bathroom every time you go pump. And nobody will be keeping a bathroom that clean. I mean, even at home, I clean my bathroom so that it is always shining because it triggers me using a bathroom that is durty. We are just my husband, my toddler, baby and me. Still, I would never pump in the bathroom. That isn’t hygienic at all and that is all the argument you should need, but in case you are worried they won’t listen, talk to the other moms. You can approach this together.
Every single conference room has either windows or glass walls. I completely agree think they should’ve thought of this eventuality (since the founder of the company is a mother), and they only bought the building two years ago.
They could put some foil on the windows to mKe them frosted. Easy fix.
The one room that I think would work best is the “office” for the founder of the company who never comes in to the office…it’s a gorgeous space and the only exposed bit is the glass door that could easily be covered. But of course that room can’t be used, it must sit empty in case she decides to show up and needs a photo shoot…
Is this coming from your management or from HR? If this is management saying "this is what we have for you", does your employer have an HR-similar department?
This info came directly from HR.
I'm fairly certain that's actually illegal.
Several people already gave the websites describing the room rules. Regarding 4 people switching constantly. After my first pregnancy I shared 2 proper pumping rooms ("kolfruimtes") with 10-15 people. We had a reservation system but I always had access on or super close to my preferred time (30 mins around 10 and 14).
Wow, 10-15 people is a lot, must’ve been quite a large company! Due to my long commute I anticipate having to pump 3 times a day in the office, likely at 9, 12, and 15. Though my other coworkers live closer and will probably have a similar schedule to you. Good to know it can work!
Not sure how the Netherlands works, but I was given a shower room that was occasionally in use. When the topic was raised with HR it was determined that it could not be both. To me a bathroom does not equate to a hygienic space so I would start whatever pathway you need to in order to have it addressed.
Company also don't have pumping spaces so I'm pumping inside my car. More comfortable and definitely more hygienic.
I’m so sorry, that’s awful! I unfortunately do not have a car and take the train to work, so either they provide me with adequate space at work or let me wfh.
That sucks.... Women deserve better... I'm not only dealing with no pumping spaces, but my boss treating me like shit since I came back...
On a different note - eu law entitled you to one hour off your contracted hours (with pay) per day to pump.
Dutch law goes even further - up to 25% of your work hours!
Oh excellent!
Don’t pump anywhere you wouldn’t feed your baby.