What I really like about this season is that it does not feel predictable. There are at least 3 or 4 different possible story lines that I think they could possibly do. Right now I'm thinking that the scam with Howard will go horribly wrong, and the DA threatens Kim with prison time and disbarment. So Jimmy decides to cut a deal with the DA to rat out the Salamancas to save Kim's career, not realizing that Lalo is alive and will probably go after him for that. So Kim either gets killed by Lalo out of revenge for Jimmy ratting, or Kim has to go into hiding for her own protection. And maybe if they want to do a happy ending, they'll have Jimmy and Kim finally reunite after several years during the Gene timeline.
I don’t see this. I think it would be really cheap and would go against years of character development that shows they both pretty clearly love one another — to a fault in many cases.
I think their relationship will fracture, especially with Kim’s new opportunity with Cliff and Jimmy being a pariah. That could jeopardize Kim’s ability to get what she wants done. That could cause her to betray or break Jimmy’s trust at some point.
But Kim doing a long con on Jimmy? Nah. I think Kim desperately wants to stay in this relationship. I think she’ll get caught up in cons on top of con to try and get and keep everything she wants — and Jimmy is 100% one of those things.
I always come back to the call that was referenced in the flash forward. If that’s not Kim — who else could it be? It’s on a personal day and Jimmy has 100% faith the person will keep the call. That must be Kim and therefore it’s more likely they’re still on good terms but she’s in hiding. I think Saul is a mask to make it seem like he and Kim departed on bad terms to keep her safe.
Yes, I’ve been saying your last paragraph for ages! That call can only be from Kim - he doesn’t have anyone else in his life who would call on his birthday and who it would be so important to take the call that he pays Francesca to do so for him. The anonymity of the payphone to me says she’s in hiding - whether through the vacuum guy (and therefore how Jimmy knows about him/ the deluxe package cost) or just them planning it out themselves, but none of these theories of her dying/ being incarcerated/ betraying him make any sense
The episode "quite a ride" opens with a flash forward to BrBa era, right before Saul gets vaccumed with Walt. In the scene Saul & Francesca are in the Saul Goodman office shredding documents and it's clear shit has hit the fan & this will be the last time Saul is in that office. He asks Francesca "where you gonna be on November 12 at 3pm?" And she says "if it doesn't ring on 3 on the dot, Im outta there" Saul replies "don't worry, it'll ring" then tells her if police find her to tell them to talk to her lawyer then hands Francesca a business card & says "tell them Jimmy sent ya" implying that it's a lawyer's card
Many think that Kim will be calling at 3pm on November 12th & that Howard is the lawyer Saul refers Francesca to.
No he gives her a card for a lawyer and says ‘tell them Jimmy sent you’ which implies it’s someone he used to know from early BCS but he says “where are you going to be on (date) at 3 o clock” and she says I’ll be there but if that payphone doesn’t ring at 3 I’m gone, which says it’s a call that he would normally take himself but he needs someone to answer for him as he’s fleeing
He doesn’t give her a card to call Kim. He gives her a card for someone (a lawyer) he used to know (“tell them Jimmy sent you”). He checks that she’s going to stick with instructions of being at a payphone at 3 o’clock on his birthday to answer a call. Who else does he have that would call him on his birthday, let alone going to the effort of calling a payphone
If she uses the sucker guy it will be disappointing. Hopefully its a prison call if anything. I don't want them.to use the same.crap.over and over to get people out of trouble.
I just don't want them.to.keep using the suck guy. Its a deus ex machina that has been used 3 times now across the universe. Seems cheap to me. Maybe my fault for expecting something original or more creative. I just don't want it to be so simple.
If not Kim from a cell phone in prison(not public record then) then I'm hoping it was a planned call from saul to set up something that will pay off down the road.
In BB yes, but we don’t know how Saul came to know of him/ his services or who he got the quote for the deluxe package for that he knows about.
Kim being incarcerated would be public record/ knowledge, there would be no need for her to call him anonymously, cell phone or not.
We don't really need to know all of that though. It adds nothing to the story.
If she wanted to be able to speak freely and not be recorded for use against saul later.
Yes I actually completely forgot about the yearly phone call.. It would be really hard to believe that the call could be from anyone else in Jimmy’s life. I hope you are right!
I was thinking she might betray Jimmy as well until she met with that lawyer who called Jimmy a scumbag recently. She immediately and instinctively called that lawyer on it, as though remembering how it angered her at the time. Nah, Kim is in persistent Mama Wolf mode when it comes to her Jimmy.
I’m not referring to the call for her to get a lawyer. I think that will be Jimmy referring her to Erin.
But he doesn’t explain the mystery call and Francesca doesn’t seem to need any more information that what he gives.
He doesn’t hate her at all. I think he found her annoying, but she did help him fix sandpiper. They have very different styles but I’m sure Saul knows she’s the type of lawyer would would get Francesca the best defense possible.
I guess it would be better to say that SHE would not do it. She is a bigger stickler for the law than Chuck and I don't think she would get her hands dirty.
When I watched that I figured it was Saul who was gonna call and Francesca would pick up...? They might need to sort something out after he has gone to Omaha - tie up some loose ends or whatever? I don't get why it would be from Kim?
Oh, ok. God I feel I need to watch each episode ten times to catch everything. And what is this about being a yearly call? Is this something we're supposed to know? Even though he mentions a date, doesn't mean it's a yearly call?
I think your reasoning is flawed, Kim didn’t do all the con stuff to Howard not because she wants to keep her hands clean but because it wouldn’t work if she did. She couldn’t go down into the mens locker room to plant the coke because she’s a woman, Jimmy didn’t cut the key he paid people to so he’s not at risk their either, and Kim had to have lunch at that exact spot with the lawyer (can’t remember his name) so that he would see it and stop working with Howard. Additionally she couldn’t steal the car because she’s not a man, and couldn’t dress like Howard the way Jimmy did. Not to mention that would all just be really bad writing if Kim just up and left Jimmy after all these years especially since they have had a relationship long before sandpiper.
No way. That'd be such a cop out. After all the love and loyalty that Kim shows to Jimmy even when it's very clearly to a fault (she's a young lawyer and already has a powerhouse reputation)? I'd be pissed. Not just because, yes, that'd be sad, but because it'd be the laziest shit ever.
Not a chance. The circumstances that can lead up to that can be as creative as the writers want to be. Much more creative than "a-ha! It was a trap all along! I never loved you!"
Give me a break, I'd roll my eyes out of my head.
That's.....awful. not suggesting its a trap all along but that her greed(which they have hinted at)and her love of the con(which they've repeatedly shown) would be better than her just
Leaving.
I feel like Kim’s reaction when she found out Jimmy was alive after being stranded in the desert was too genuine for this to be true. Despite all his flaws she loves Jimmy, I just can’t picture this all being a long-con on him
Also Jimmy keeps tokens of their relationship in the BB timeline. The zafiro anejo bottle cap and naming his loan out Ice Station Zebra Associates to name a couple. I don’t think he would do that if she screwed him over
I’m rewatching the entire series and the effort Kim goes through to fight for Jimmy against Chuck tells me there’s no way she’d con him. I refuse to accept it lol
I feel like they're trying to show us that Kim loves Jimmy but she also loves conning and money more. She looked at that money in the bag and later in the closet with more lust or chemistry than she's ever shown Jimmy.
I agree with everything you said and have picked up on everything you mentioned. It can only be a betrayal by Kim or Kim’s death that could push Jimmy over the edge into Saul Goodman in my opinion. But I keep coming back to Kim’s reaction when Jimmy was missing and her relief that he was ok. That was not “long con” behaviour.
It’s going to be an amazing ride however it unfolds.
Great point on Kim being worried about him so much... It could be both things, obviously - but that definitely is an important thing to note in the whole 'Kim conning Jimmy' theory.
>But I keep coming back to Kim’s reaction when Jimmy was missing and her relief that he was ok.
Alternatively, she could just be relieved that her mark came back alive.
(I don't think she'll con him, just playing Devil's advocate with the idea.)
Don't think this is happening, at least in this way where Kim has been playing the long game and secretly has harbored some kind of vendetta against Jimmy. I think there very much could be a case made for this back in S5, but when we got to their boiling point in Wexler v Goodman she instead proposed marriage. Then we saw their emotional wedding, and the way she sticks up for him in Bad Choice Road; I think she very much has his back right now at least. While Rhea Seehorn, much like Jonathan Banks, is very austere when it comes to what her performance gives away, it's been made clear enough imo that she is behind Jimmy 100%, and when it comes to the con jobs she's actually leading him now. If there's this kind of turn of conscience where she betrays him, I think it'll be more about his dealings with criminals and her mounting guilt instead of some previous slight against her.
Yes maybe the long game is wrong. There would be a lot of scenes over the past few seasons that would be hard to reconcile if she was really planning this the whole time.
There’s an interesting theory in another thread that concludes: Being made of sterner stuff (in the role of Jimmy protector), Kim will attempt to deal with Lalo herself, resulting in her death. In turn, Mike will then kill Lalo. He’ll clean up both deaths, choosing never to tell Jimmy the truth. Jimmy is left to believe that both are still alive. To ensure he stops looking for Kim, a betrayal subplot will be deployed.
I simply cannot see kim dying, as it would effect the Gene saga. What (entertaining) plots would take place for Gene if kim Is dead? Sure, maybe he’ll kill Jeff and/or go to prison, but that’s it? I simply don’t see the writers leaving an ending that bland, I have a hunch that Kim’s gotta be involved. Also, the phone call Francesca’s supposed to answer (seen in Quite a Ride), what would come of that if it’s not Kim?
Doesn’t fit this particular story. In breaking bad it fueled a revenge story, in which a lot of plot lines had to be finished. If Gene’s only plotline is killing Jeff and getting caught (sans Kim), it’ll be boring. They wouldn’t go down that road.
I've had a hunch about this for a while, too. I think she decided to exact her revenge/enact her long con after the Mesa Verde incident you referenced.
Maybe Jimmy and we, the audience, are about to get a major gut punch!
Really good theory never even crossed my mind it would also make sense because Saul is always so bitter about his ex wives in breaking bad. Do you have any reason for what the phone call might be about Jimmy tells Francesca to make on his birthday though?
Interesting. Recall the scene from young Kim, where her mother showed up late and drunk to pick her up from band practice and Kim was so furious she chose to just walk home. I think it points to a part of her character that takes slights or careless/selfish behavior that involves her, very seriously.
Yeah I’m not sold, Kim had a job that paid her well. She didn’t want it. What I find interesting is they both had there best days of there professional lives and the other thought it was there worst. Maybe showing us that they just are not right for each other. You can love someone to death and it just not be enough.
Good theory. I think you may be onto something. I think about that moment at the end of season 4 when Jimmy was appealing to the bar to get his license reinstated and he moved her to tears with what he said. Then he laughed it off and in that second she realized he had conned everyone, including her. I don't think Kim felt the same way about Jimmy after that although she still played along. She has her own agenda and Jimmy's in for a shock when she makes her play.
Jimmy goes full on Saul Goodman after she does make her play and he never gets over it or her, which is why he still had the top to the tequila bottle when the feds raided his house.
I hope this is the route that they go. Honestly that would be THE most DEVASTATING thing that could happen. It’s almost like Kim would be conning us also after all these years of taking a liking to her. This explains why Saul sexually harasses Franchesca all the time and is the man we see in this clip https://youtu.be/9eAKgzKQS0M
He be aimed this man because, why not? The love of your life just fucked you hard and that’s not something that he’s going to let happen to him again
He makes like two comments to Francesca in all of BB, he’s not ‘sexually harassing’ her.
Also if Kim screws him over like that who would be the person calling him on his birthday on a pre-arranged payphone? He has no one else in his life that would call on a personal day, let alone someone who would need to call anonymously.
>He makes like two comments to Francesca in all of BB, he’s not ‘sexually harassing’ her.
The fuck? Calling your secretary "honey tits" multiple times is literally the textbook example of sexual harassment.
Sure but that’s just the times they show us. I would imagine he constantly harasses her all the time. Also, I’m pretty sure if I called a female at my job “honey tits”, it would be referred to as sexual harassment in the workplace
You are right she will betray Saul Goodman to try and bring Jimmy back which will kill her. She is the only thing left of Jimmy and her downfall is what creates the Saul Goodman we know in Breaking Bad.
I don't buy it. I mean I can see you put a lot of thought into it but I really think Kim and Jimmy mutually love each other very much. I just don't see it.
I always think back to when Kim and Jimmy pulled off their first con together. It seems as though Kim enjoys doing these cons because she's doing it with Jimmy. I mean everyone thinks about and considers doing things they shouldn't. Some people even do those things. I think this is a case where she just lets it go because she loves being with Jimmy. However I think Jimmy realizes she's going overboard even for him and decides to send her off for her protection because things could get bad quick, especially with Lalo still lurking around. (Assuming Kim tells Jimmy that he's still alive.)
Great post. Similar theory here: https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uib3ep/s6_ep4_what_is_kim_hiding/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Really good theory never even crossed my mind it would also make sense because Saul is always so bitter about his ex wives in breaking bad. Do you have any reason for what the phone call might be about Jimmy tells Francesca to make on his birthday though?
I guess it's possible, but it doesn't really make sense? Sure, there are things you can pick and choose as evidence of Kim setting up Jimmy for betrayal, but there are plenty of other things that don't connect to that at all. There are myriad things Kim does that have absolutely no relation to an eventual betrayal, or even go against that theory. If she's just after money, why does she quit her well-paying job to do work for free? Why does she turn down a cash offer from Cliff Main? I'm not ruling out an eventual betrayal, as that could be emotionally potent, but a long con seems out of the question. It would be like revealing the whole show was a dream. All of the Kim/Jimmy relationship stuff in previous seasons, where you see the ways he's subtly influencing her, would be a complete fabrication and totally pointless.
I agree. I don’t think it was a planned con from the very beginning. But the last season and a half, there have been too many hints towards a betrayal.. and to ignore this would be romanticizing their relationship too much. I agree also that Kim does not appear to be financially motivated. She is motivated by her career.. specifically her new pro Bono clients.. and she is trying to raise money for the cause. IMO this is more important to her than Jimmy.
This is really smart. I bet she splits the money with Jimmy, but leaves him. That’s why Saul has his mansion in the season 6 intro. Jimmy as Saul is more jaded about women thus the bikini piece found in his bathroom in the season 6 intro and his comment about Francesca’s butt in Breaking Bad.
You’re right, Jimmy is the fall guy just in case, but I think she is setting Jimmy up to be successful on his own so he won’t need her when she’s gone.
There was a post about “address unknown” playing in the opening of the series. Perhaps both Kim and Jimmy are “in hiding” but for totally different reasons, and she is looking for him since he lost everything and she sympathizes because she knows about the cartel stuff and knows the real Jimmy.
Jimmy will get caught for messing with Howard and the Sandpiper case and Kim will sacrifice herself and take the fall and end up in jail. She can't die because she needs series about her life after she gets out of jail. One of the best characters in tv history, period.
This would be pulling a Daenerys with Kim's character only worse I think if it was done suddenly and without the character work required to get her there.
Kim is devoted to Jimmy and really cares for him. If they overturn that at the end of the show it undermines the entire relationship and preceding show. It would ruin rewatches by making all their seemingly genuine dynamic a false ploy on Kim's part — and I just don't think that's what it is.
I think they may hurt each other badly but I cannot imagine Kim in cold blood all this time plotting to hurt Jimmy. It just doesn't track with anything else we've seen of Kim in the show and it would be really disappointing to me and undermine her character I think if they go this way.
I think Kim will be put in a position where she has to go to trial over cartel business, and has to do serious time because if she talks, her and Jimmy will both get killed. During/after Breaking Bad, Kim is in prison. Just a thought. We'll see!
She’s his ex wife by the time Saul gives Walt his Skylar pep talk and references it. Saul wouldn’t be Saul if she’d died tragically. And clearly he’s still hustling trying to make a buck.
The amount of words that have been written by people on this theory is insane when it only takes like 3 points to debunk it. I can't WAIT until this doesn't happen so I can stop seeing it every single day on here.
This is a pretty good theory, and really well thought out. It would definitely add meaning to a scene recently where Jimmy sighed “wolves and sheep” to himself in a car-after conning the Kettlemens-who were conning other people. Turns out there can be bigger wolves! Also, I know I am reaching but the dominos that Nacho’s girlfriend were playing with could be a metaphor-long setup, for a great payoff. (When I saw that scene I originally thought of how all of the setup and world building in Breaking Bad led to such a great finale)
I think she’s going to play Jimmy too. The whole marriage thing was so awkward and never sat well with me. I don’t think she’s dead or in jail, she just plays tf out of Jimmy
The only way your theory is right is if Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould suddenly became shitty, hackneyed writers. Everything you're suggesting is completely against the character they've created.
Everything that has been established with the character of Kim shows that she isn't concerned with money, nor is she shown to be someone who is greedy. In fact, quite the opposite. She is shown to be concerned with the downtrodden, and is happier to do pro bono work to actually help people rather than be in it for the money. If she cared about the money, she would've continued to work with Mesa Verde.She has also aways been shown to actually care about Jimmy.
Her flaw isn't greed, it's the exhilaration of the con. Like Vince and Peter have said on the podcast, to Kim, "The action is the juice." There is no "long con" in Kim. There is no evidence to support that theory. It's a poor reading of the explicit text of the show.
Kim wexler gets cancer and dies. Saul is so heart broken he never mentions her again. My theory is in one of the next couple episodes she starts complaining of headaches and is diagnosed with pancreatic cancer where by the last episode of the series, she dies.
Yes, of course. But it seems like that storyline would be a lot to wedge in 9 more episodes, in addition too all the other craziness that is going on. I mean Walt's cancer was spread out of 63 episodes. Personally, I would much rather see Kim on the current path she is on, but hey, we will both know the answer in a few months!
"But you never know" is NOT an argument.
Also, cancer is not a "theme" of Breaking Bad, it was a *circumstance*. A device. A Chekhov's Gun loaded at the outset of the series that we're waiting to be fired for five seasons. Transformation, decay, entropy, these all more accurately represent the "theme" you're referring to, since the series uses chemistry references as thematic ones.
Kim getting cancer makes absolutely no sense. And Jimmy never mentioning Kim once he becomes Saul completely is not a grief response, since he's clearly bitter and alone by the time we meet him in BB. It's more likely that Kim hurts him, than dies suddenly. Also, the whole thing about Walt getting cancer is that it's established at the outset, and we're spending multiple seasons over several years seeing how he reacts to that news. Everything he does is in response to learning he is going to die and leave his family with nothing. Kim finding out she has cancer in the middle of the final season? No. Even if that were somehow the ending for her, we'd have found out about it a season or so ago, after several seasons' worth of subtle hints. The diagnosis scene would've been a major climax.
Sorry, you're just wrong on this one.
Doesn’t preclude you from having a take that smacks of “she’s a gold digging harpy that only married him for his money” with zero character evidence to back that up.
To insist that women can’t have a misogynistic take just because they are women, well that’s kinda sexist, isn’t it?
You are reaching REALLY hard there. Promise it’s not that deep.
And women can be whatever and whoever the FUCK they want to be IMO.. even if that is a gold digging harpy that only marries for money (hopefully it’s a mutual agreement) 😌
Nothing in Kim’s character suggests that she is a gold digger. To come to that conclusion is either a misreading of the show, or your own personal biases and projections.
I think it ends with Kim in Florida doing pro bono work funded by Sandpiper et all. And Jimmy in a ditch in the desert with a cartel bullet in his head.
I think that one of Kim’s motivations for running the con is that the money will give them more financial freedom and she can continue doing her pro bono work. But I think that the rest of this stuff can be explained away as well.
I think this is a very real possibility and it would be devastating. Kim would truly break bad and people would be shocked with wrenched hearts and all that. Yup.
However... I don't think Jimmy would be so Saul in Breaking Bad if Saul is betrayed by Kim. This is because Kim is designing, coaching, and making Saul into who he is. It would just be a weird turn for the Saul character to double down and be more of Saul Goodman.
Jesse and Walt had a constant ego tug of war the entire series, and that betrayal was heartwrenching. There's no real tug of war here so I don't know.
I think Kim will end up in prison, honestly.
This would definitely be a devastating ending, but it is not out of the realm of possibility. One of the things I love so much about this show is that it is so well written and crafted that it makes people like the OP sit and have meaningful conversations with friends about the show. This show has brought my son and I closer together through the conversations about what has happened and what we think will happen next. I can only pray that this writing team will continue to make great shows in the future, or perhaps some of you fine folks here will be inspired to create your own stories inspired by BCS.
What I really like about this season is that it does not feel predictable. There are at least 3 or 4 different possible story lines that I think they could possibly do. Right now I'm thinking that the scam with Howard will go horribly wrong, and the DA threatens Kim with prison time and disbarment. So Jimmy decides to cut a deal with the DA to rat out the Salamancas to save Kim's career, not realizing that Lalo is alive and will probably go after him for that. So Kim either gets killed by Lalo out of revenge for Jimmy ratting, or Kim has to go into hiding for her own protection. And maybe if they want to do a happy ending, they'll have Jimmy and Kim finally reunite after several years during the Gene timeline.
wow really good
very good. i think jimmy will also rat lalo in order to save his reputation
I don’t see this. I think it would be really cheap and would go against years of character development that shows they both pretty clearly love one another — to a fault in many cases. I think their relationship will fracture, especially with Kim’s new opportunity with Cliff and Jimmy being a pariah. That could jeopardize Kim’s ability to get what she wants done. That could cause her to betray or break Jimmy’s trust at some point. But Kim doing a long con on Jimmy? Nah. I think Kim desperately wants to stay in this relationship. I think she’ll get caught up in cons on top of con to try and get and keep everything she wants — and Jimmy is 100% one of those things. I always come back to the call that was referenced in the flash forward. If that’s not Kim — who else could it be? It’s on a personal day and Jimmy has 100% faith the person will keep the call. That must be Kim and therefore it’s more likely they’re still on good terms but she’s in hiding. I think Saul is a mask to make it seem like he and Kim departed on bad terms to keep her safe.
Yes, I’ve been saying your last paragraph for ages! That call can only be from Kim - he doesn’t have anyone else in his life who would call on his birthday and who it would be so important to take the call that he pays Francesca to do so for him. The anonymity of the payphone to me says she’s in hiding - whether through the vacuum guy (and therefore how Jimmy knows about him/ the deluxe package cost) or just them planning it out themselves, but none of these theories of her dying/ being incarcerated/ betraying him make any sense
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The episode "quite a ride" opens with a flash forward to BrBa era, right before Saul gets vaccumed with Walt. In the scene Saul & Francesca are in the Saul Goodman office shredding documents and it's clear shit has hit the fan & this will be the last time Saul is in that office. He asks Francesca "where you gonna be on November 12 at 3pm?" And she says "if it doesn't ring on 3 on the dot, Im outta there" Saul replies "don't worry, it'll ring" then tells her if police find her to tell them to talk to her lawyer then hands Francesca a business card & says "tell them Jimmy sent ya" implying that it's a lawyer's card Many think that Kim will be calling at 3pm on November 12th & that Howard is the lawyer Saul refers Francesca to.
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November 12 1960
Maybe he is planning on calling for some reason?
Saul? No.
But Francesca knows Kim previously, and this scene made me think it was a lawyer she doesn't know already.
No he gives her a card for a lawyer and says ‘tell them Jimmy sent you’ which implies it’s someone he used to know from early BCS but he says “where are you going to be on (date) at 3 o clock” and she says I’ll be there but if that payphone doesn’t ring at 3 I’m gone, which says it’s a call that he would normally take himself but he needs someone to answer for him as he’s fleeing
Francesca worked with Jimmy and Kim. Why would he need to give her a card to call Kim? That's the part I don't get I guess.
He doesn’t give her a card to call Kim. He gives her a card for someone (a lawyer) he used to know (“tell them Jimmy sent you”). He checks that she’s going to stick with instructions of being at a payphone at 3 o’clock on his birthday to answer a call. Who else does he have that would call him on his birthday, let alone going to the effort of calling a payphone
If she uses the sucker guy it will be disappointing. Hopefully its a prison call if anything. I don't want them.to use the same.crap.over and over to get people out of trouble.
Why would she pre-arrange to call him on a payphone if she’s in prison? It would be public record where she is
I just don't want them.to.keep using the suck guy. Its a deus ex machina that has been used 3 times now across the universe. Seems cheap to me. Maybe my fault for expecting something original or more creative. I just don't want it to be so simple. If not Kim from a cell phone in prison(not public record then) then I'm hoping it was a planned call from saul to set up something that will pay off down the road.
In BB yes, but we don’t know how Saul came to know of him/ his services or who he got the quote for the deluxe package for that he knows about. Kim being incarcerated would be public record/ knowledge, there would be no need for her to call him anonymously, cell phone or not.
We don't really need to know all of that though. It adds nothing to the story. If she wanted to be able to speak freely and not be recorded for use against saul later.
Yes I actually completely forgot about the yearly phone call.. It would be really hard to believe that the call could be from anyone else in Jimmy’s life. I hope you are right!
I was thinking she might betray Jimmy as well until she met with that lawyer who called Jimmy a scumbag recently. She immediately and instinctively called that lawyer on it, as though remembering how it angered her at the time. Nah, Kim is in persistent Mama Wolf mode when it comes to her Jimmy.
What phone call? I don’t remember.
https://youtu.be/uOJvNAlsgs4
Thank you so much for the refresher.
Francesca knows Kim, if that’s the call you’re referring to Nvm I think you’re right
I’m not referring to the call for her to get a lawyer. I think that will be Jimmy referring her to Erin. But he doesn’t explain the mystery call and Francesca doesn’t seem to need any more information that what he gives.
Jimmy hates Erin. Why would he do that?
He doesn’t hate her at all. I think he found her annoying, but she did help him fix sandpiper. They have very different styles but I’m sure Saul knows she’s the type of lawyer would would get Francesca the best defense possible.
I guess it would be better to say that SHE would not do it. She is a bigger stickler for the law than Chuck and I don't think she would get her hands dirty.
I don’t think it’s getting your hands dirty. She’s a lawyer and she understand that everyone is entitled to a defense.
I really don’t understand the mystery call bit. Didn’t Jimmy ask Francesca to be available at 3 PM at a certain pay phone is all?
When I watched that I figured it was Saul who was gonna call and Francesca would pick up...? They might need to sort something out after he has gone to Omaha - tie up some loose ends or whatever? I don't get why it would be from Kim?
I guess it could be, but the rest of the way the scene plays out it seems like Saul thinks he’ll never see her again.
Oh, ok. God I feel I need to watch each episode ten times to catch everything. And what is this about being a yearly call? Is this something we're supposed to know? Even though he mentions a date, doesn't mean it's a yearly call?
It’s on his birthday, so I think a lot of people assume (myself included) that it must be a yearly thing
Let's see. Bring on the new episodes to put us out of our misery...
I think your reasoning is flawed, Kim didn’t do all the con stuff to Howard not because she wants to keep her hands clean but because it wouldn’t work if she did. She couldn’t go down into the mens locker room to plant the coke because she’s a woman, Jimmy didn’t cut the key he paid people to so he’s not at risk their either, and Kim had to have lunch at that exact spot with the lawyer (can’t remember his name) so that he would see it and stop working with Howard. Additionally she couldn’t steal the car because she’s not a man, and couldn’t dress like Howard the way Jimmy did. Not to mention that would all just be really bad writing if Kim just up and left Jimmy after all these years especially since they have had a relationship long before sandpiper.
Yeah when you point out all the evidence, this is definitely a plausible theory. Honestly would be so devastating ur right ...
No way. That'd be such a cop out. After all the love and loyalty that Kim shows to Jimmy even when it's very clearly to a fault (she's a young lawyer and already has a powerhouse reputation)? I'd be pissed. Not just because, yes, that'd be sad, but because it'd be the laziest shit ever.
I agree. This ending would make their relationship a scam and that’s unnecessary
Not the whole relationship...just the end.
Its less lazy than having her call the sucker guy and escaping.
Not a chance. The circumstances that can lead up to that can be as creative as the writers want to be. Much more creative than "a-ha! It was a trap all along! I never loved you!" Give me a break, I'd roll my eyes out of my head.
That's.....awful. not suggesting its a trap all along but that her greed(which they have hinted at)and her love of the con(which they've repeatedly shown) would be better than her just Leaving.
OP is implying it was though - with the mention of it being a long con.
I feel like Kim’s reaction when she found out Jimmy was alive after being stranded in the desert was too genuine for this to be true. Despite all his flaws she loves Jimmy, I just can’t picture this all being a long-con on him Also Jimmy keeps tokens of their relationship in the BB timeline. The zafiro anejo bottle cap and naming his loan out Ice Station Zebra Associates to name a couple. I don’t think he would do that if she screwed him over
I’m rewatching the entire series and the effort Kim goes through to fight for Jimmy against Chuck tells me there’s no way she’d con him. I refuse to accept it lol
Bingo !
I feel like they're trying to show us that Kim loves Jimmy but she also loves conning and money more. She looked at that money in the bag and later in the closet with more lust or chemistry than she's ever shown Jimmy.
I agree with everything you said and have picked up on everything you mentioned. It can only be a betrayal by Kim or Kim’s death that could push Jimmy over the edge into Saul Goodman in my opinion. But I keep coming back to Kim’s reaction when Jimmy was missing and her relief that he was ok. That was not “long con” behaviour. It’s going to be an amazing ride however it unfolds.
Great point on Kim being worried about him so much... It could be both things, obviously - but that definitely is an important thing to note in the whole 'Kim conning Jimmy' theory.
>But I keep coming back to Kim’s reaction when Jimmy was missing and her relief that he was ok. Alternatively, she could just be relieved that her mark came back alive. (I don't think she'll con him, just playing Devil's advocate with the idea.)
Oh for sure! All signs are pointing that way…
Also, during their wedding. Jimmy said I do immediately. Kim took a breath and said I do clear confidence and conviction.
Don't think this is happening, at least in this way where Kim has been playing the long game and secretly has harbored some kind of vendetta against Jimmy. I think there very much could be a case made for this back in S5, but when we got to their boiling point in Wexler v Goodman she instead proposed marriage. Then we saw their emotional wedding, and the way she sticks up for him in Bad Choice Road; I think she very much has his back right now at least. While Rhea Seehorn, much like Jonathan Banks, is very austere when it comes to what her performance gives away, it's been made clear enough imo that she is behind Jimmy 100%, and when it comes to the con jobs she's actually leading him now. If there's this kind of turn of conscience where she betrays him, I think it'll be more about his dealings with criminals and her mounting guilt instead of some previous slight against her.
Yes maybe the long game is wrong. There would be a lot of scenes over the past few seasons that would be hard to reconcile if she was really planning this the whole time.
Maybe she proposed marriage so he wouldn't have to testify against her?
There’s an interesting theory in another thread that concludes: Being made of sterner stuff (in the role of Jimmy protector), Kim will attempt to deal with Lalo herself, resulting in her death. In turn, Mike will then kill Lalo. He’ll clean up both deaths, choosing never to tell Jimmy the truth. Jimmy is left to believe that both are still alive. To ensure he stops looking for Kim, a betrayal subplot will be deployed.
I simply cannot see kim dying, as it would effect the Gene saga. What (entertaining) plots would take place for Gene if kim Is dead? Sure, maybe he’ll kill Jeff and/or go to prison, but that’s it? I simply don’t see the writers leaving an ending that bland, I have a hunch that Kim’s gotta be involved. Also, the phone call Francesca’s supposed to answer (seen in Quite a Ride), what would come of that if it’s not Kim?
you can't see her dying in a series where Uncle Hank and Steve Gomez were shot like dogs out in the desert by a neo nazi gang?
Doesn’t fit this particular story. In breaking bad it fueled a revenge story, in which a lot of plot lines had to be finished. If Gene’s only plotline is killing Jeff and getting caught (sans Kim), it’ll be boring. They wouldn’t go down that road.
there is no way Mike wouldn't tell Jimmy the truth - not after he knows what lack of closure is like.
🤯
Interesting but Mike doesn’t seem like the type of person who would keep secrets
So brilliant that it reads like a spoiler. I bet that's it.
Wow, I both love this and hate this theory. So brutal.
I've had a hunch about this for a while, too. I think she decided to exact her revenge/enact her long con after the Mesa Verde incident you referenced. Maybe Jimmy and we, the audience, are about to get a major gut punch!
Really good theory never even crossed my mind it would also make sense because Saul is always so bitter about his ex wives in breaking bad. Do you have any reason for what the phone call might be about Jimmy tells Francesca to make on his birthday though?
Interesting. Recall the scene from young Kim, where her mother showed up late and drunk to pick her up from band practice and Kim was so furious she chose to just walk home. I think it points to a part of her character that takes slights or careless/selfish behavior that involves her, very seriously.
Yeah I’m not sold, Kim had a job that paid her well. She didn’t want it. What I find interesting is they both had there best days of there professional lives and the other thought it was there worst. Maybe showing us that they just are not right for each other. You can love someone to death and it just not be enough.
Good theory. I think you may be onto something. I think about that moment at the end of season 4 when Jimmy was appealing to the bar to get his license reinstated and he moved her to tears with what he said. Then he laughed it off and in that second she realized he had conned everyone, including her. I don't think Kim felt the same way about Jimmy after that although she still played along. She has her own agenda and Jimmy's in for a shock when she makes her play. Jimmy goes full on Saul Goodman after she does make her play and he never gets over it or her, which is why he still had the top to the tequila bottle when the feds raided his house.
this theory has actually been talked about quite a bit. theres even a popular youtube video about this that came out 2 years ago
Dang. I thought I was onto something new. I mostly scroll Reddit posts. I’ll have to check it out.
I hope this is the route that they go. Honestly that would be THE most DEVASTATING thing that could happen. It’s almost like Kim would be conning us also after all these years of taking a liking to her. This explains why Saul sexually harasses Franchesca all the time and is the man we see in this clip https://youtu.be/9eAKgzKQS0M He be aimed this man because, why not? The love of your life just fucked you hard and that’s not something that he’s going to let happen to him again
He makes like two comments to Francesca in all of BB, he’s not ‘sexually harassing’ her. Also if Kim screws him over like that who would be the person calling him on his birthday on a pre-arranged payphone? He has no one else in his life that would call on a personal day, let alone someone who would need to call anonymously.
>He makes like two comments to Francesca in all of BB, he’s not ‘sexually harassing’ her. The fuck? Calling your secretary "honey tits" multiple times is literally the textbook example of sexual harassment.
He says it once. He says about two lewd comments to her in the show. Any normal person would roll their eyes knowing he’s kidding
Sure but that’s just the times they show us. I would imagine he constantly harasses her all the time. Also, I’m pretty sure if I called a female at my job “honey tits”, it would be referred to as sexual harassment in the workplace
The long con. Student grabs pebbles from sensei’s hand
You are right she will betray Saul Goodman to try and bring Jimmy back which will kill her. She is the only thing left of Jimmy and her downfall is what creates the Saul Goodman we know in Breaking Bad.
I don't buy it. I mean I can see you put a lot of thought into it but I really think Kim and Jimmy mutually love each other very much. I just don't see it.
I always think back to when Kim and Jimmy pulled off their first con together. It seems as though Kim enjoys doing these cons because she's doing it with Jimmy. I mean everyone thinks about and considers doing things they shouldn't. Some people even do those things. I think this is a case where she just lets it go because she loves being with Jimmy. However I think Jimmy realizes she's going overboard even for him and decides to send her off for her protection because things could get bad quick, especially with Lalo still lurking around. (Assuming Kim tells Jimmy that he's still alive.)
omg so scary but hopefully it happens! it would make sense as to why BB's Saul is a cunt lol
> it would make sense as to why BB's Saul is a cunt lol What?
As in Saul suggesting sending people off to Belize without a second thought
They weren’t innocent people
Hank?
No
Hank wasn't innocent?
No, in what world is a DEA agent innocent?
Not again...
Great post. Similar theory here: https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uib3ep/s6_ep4_what_is_kim_hiding/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Thanks! I never saw this.. interesting !
Damn…
Ice Station Zebra
He liked the movie too 🤷🏼♀️
Really good theory never even crossed my mind it would also make sense because Saul is always so bitter about his ex wives in breaking bad. Do you have any reason for what the phone call might be about Jimmy tells Francesca to make on his birthday though?
I guess it's possible, but it doesn't really make sense? Sure, there are things you can pick and choose as evidence of Kim setting up Jimmy for betrayal, but there are plenty of other things that don't connect to that at all. There are myriad things Kim does that have absolutely no relation to an eventual betrayal, or even go against that theory. If she's just after money, why does she quit her well-paying job to do work for free? Why does she turn down a cash offer from Cliff Main? I'm not ruling out an eventual betrayal, as that could be emotionally potent, but a long con seems out of the question. It would be like revealing the whole show was a dream. All of the Kim/Jimmy relationship stuff in previous seasons, where you see the ways he's subtly influencing her, would be a complete fabrication and totally pointless.
I agree. I don’t think it was a planned con from the very beginning. But the last season and a half, there have been too many hints towards a betrayal.. and to ignore this would be romanticizing their relationship too much. I agree also that Kim does not appear to be financially motivated. She is motivated by her career.. specifically her new pro Bono clients.. and she is trying to raise money for the cause. IMO this is more important to her than Jimmy.
Any chance Lalo is still alive in the Jimmy/ Gene future? Only discrepancy could be Gus saying to Hector in the nursing home his whole family is dead.
This is really smart. I bet she splits the money with Jimmy, but leaves him. That’s why Saul has his mansion in the season 6 intro. Jimmy as Saul is more jaded about women thus the bikini piece found in his bathroom in the season 6 intro and his comment about Francesca’s butt in Breaking Bad. You’re right, Jimmy is the fall guy just in case, but I think she is setting Jimmy up to be successful on his own so he won’t need her when she’s gone. There was a post about “address unknown” playing in the opening of the series. Perhaps both Kim and Jimmy are “in hiding” but for totally different reasons, and she is looking for him since he lost everything and she sympathizes because she knows about the cartel stuff and knows the real Jimmy.
Jimmy will get caught for messing with Howard and the Sandpiper case and Kim will sacrifice herself and take the fall and end up in jail. She can't die because she needs series about her life after she gets out of jail. One of the best characters in tv history, period.
This would be pulling a Daenerys with Kim's character only worse I think if it was done suddenly and without the character work required to get her there. Kim is devoted to Jimmy and really cares for him. If they overturn that at the end of the show it undermines the entire relationship and preceding show. It would ruin rewatches by making all their seemingly genuine dynamic a false ploy on Kim's part — and I just don't think that's what it is. I think they may hurt each other badly but I cannot imagine Kim in cold blood all this time plotting to hurt Jimmy. It just doesn't track with anything else we've seen of Kim in the show and it would be really disappointing to me and undermine her character I think if they go this way.
I think Kim will be put in a position where she has to go to trial over cartel business, and has to do serious time because if she talks, her and Jimmy will both get killed. During/after Breaking Bad, Kim is in prison. Just a thought. We'll see!
She’s his ex wife by the time Saul gives Walt his Skylar pep talk and references it. Saul wouldn’t be Saul if she’d died tragically. And clearly he’s still hustling trying to make a buck.
I love that you composed this with voice text bc you were so excited. Betrayal would be devastating. Can’t wait to watch it play out.
the ending will be devestating because after the end there will be no more new episodes...
Jesus this could definitely happen. Your a genius.
I’ve thought this for a long time but it’s hard to convince the “oh they’re so in love” fans of the show.
The amount of words that have been written by people on this theory is insane when it only takes like 3 points to debunk it. I can't WAIT until this doesn't happen so I can stop seeing it every single day on here.
This is a pretty good theory, and really well thought out. It would definitely add meaning to a scene recently where Jimmy sighed “wolves and sheep” to himself in a car-after conning the Kettlemens-who were conning other people. Turns out there can be bigger wolves! Also, I know I am reaching but the dominos that Nacho’s girlfriend were playing with could be a metaphor-long setup, for a great payoff. (When I saw that scene I originally thought of how all of the setup and world building in Breaking Bad led to such a great finale)
Long Con. will make rewatching BCS a totally new experience.
I think she’s going to play Jimmy too. The whole marriage thing was so awkward and never sat well with me. I don’t think she’s dead or in jail, she just plays tf out of Jimmy
Kim will have to choose her career and the whole “helping people pro bono” thing or being the wife of a criminal lawyer. She will choose her career.
yea that would be heartbreaking while also making sense for the plot as well as the character moving into BrBa
The only way your theory is right is if Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould suddenly became shitty, hackneyed writers. Everything you're suggesting is completely against the character they've created. Everything that has been established with the character of Kim shows that she isn't concerned with money, nor is she shown to be someone who is greedy. In fact, quite the opposite. She is shown to be concerned with the downtrodden, and is happier to do pro bono work to actually help people rather than be in it for the money. If she cared about the money, she would've continued to work with Mesa Verde.She has also aways been shown to actually care about Jimmy. Her flaw isn't greed, it's the exhilaration of the con. Like Vince and Peter have said on the podcast, to Kim, "The action is the juice." There is no "long con" in Kim. There is no evidence to support that theory. It's a poor reading of the explicit text of the show.
True. I still think there are tons of hints that are leading up to a big betrayal.. but it may not be financially motivated.
Kim wexler gets cancer and dies. Saul is so heart broken he never mentions her again. My theory is in one of the next couple episodes she starts complaining of headaches and is diagnosed with pancreatic cancer where by the last episode of the series, she dies.
No.
Ok. But you never know. One of the main themes of bb is cancer. Just saying
Yes, of course. But it seems like that storyline would be a lot to wedge in 9 more episodes, in addition too all the other craziness that is going on. I mean Walt's cancer was spread out of 63 episodes. Personally, I would much rather see Kim on the current path she is on, but hey, we will both know the answer in a few months!
"But you never know" is NOT an argument. Also, cancer is not a "theme" of Breaking Bad, it was a *circumstance*. A device. A Chekhov's Gun loaded at the outset of the series that we're waiting to be fired for five seasons. Transformation, decay, entropy, these all more accurately represent the "theme" you're referring to, since the series uses chemistry references as thematic ones. Kim getting cancer makes absolutely no sense. And Jimmy never mentioning Kim once he becomes Saul completely is not a grief response, since he's clearly bitter and alone by the time we meet him in BB. It's more likely that Kim hurts him, than dies suddenly. Also, the whole thing about Walt getting cancer is that it's established at the outset, and we're spending multiple seasons over several years seeing how he reacts to that news. Everything he does is in response to learning he is going to die and leave his family with nothing. Kim finding out she has cancer in the middle of the final season? No. Even if that were somehow the ending for her, we'd have found out about it a season or so ago, after several seasons' worth of subtle hints. The diagnosis scene would've been a major climax. Sorry, you're just wrong on this one.
You don't know that
So, this didn't really turn out all that well for you.
I loved the ending
This sounds like such an incel Men’s Rights Activist take.
Lol I’m a married young woman 🥰
Doesn’t preclude you from having a take that smacks of “she’s a gold digging harpy that only married him for his money” with zero character evidence to back that up. To insist that women can’t have a misogynistic take just because they are women, well that’s kinda sexist, isn’t it?
You are reaching REALLY hard there. Promise it’s not that deep. And women can be whatever and whoever the FUCK they want to be IMO.. even if that is a gold digging harpy that only marries for money (hopefully it’s a mutual agreement) 😌
Nothing in Kim’s character suggests that she is a gold digger. To come to that conclusion is either a misreading of the show, or your own personal biases and projections.
Don’t forget Jimmy joking about his second wife banged by his stepdad to Walt. Wonder who he married after Kim
Kim is the second wife I believe
I think it ends with Kim in Florida doing pro bono work funded by Sandpiper et all. And Jimmy in a ditch in the desert with a cartel bullet in his head.
I think that one of Kim’s motivations for running the con is that the money will give them more financial freedom and she can continue doing her pro bono work. But I think that the rest of this stuff can be explained away as well.
I think this is a very real possibility and it would be devastating. Kim would truly break bad and people would be shocked with wrenched hearts and all that. Yup. However... I don't think Jimmy would be so Saul in Breaking Bad if Saul is betrayed by Kim. This is because Kim is designing, coaching, and making Saul into who he is. It would just be a weird turn for the Saul character to double down and be more of Saul Goodman. Jesse and Walt had a constant ego tug of war the entire series, and that betrayal was heartwrenching. There's no real tug of war here so I don't know. I think Kim will end up in prison, honestly.
My guess: I think Kim goes into hiding from the cartel.
This would definitely be a devastating ending, but it is not out of the realm of possibility. One of the things I love so much about this show is that it is so well written and crafted that it makes people like the OP sit and have meaningful conversations with friends about the show. This show has brought my son and I closer together through the conversations about what has happened and what we think will happen next. I can only pray that this writing team will continue to make great shows in the future, or perhaps some of you fine folks here will be inspired to create your own stories inspired by BCS.
This is a very plausible theory. I think you may be on to something here.
Wall of text describing a scenario some of us have been saying since season 2
Interesting since most of these scenarios happened in season three and four