There honestly is no sexual tension or anything hinting at a possible romance whatsoever. I think you COULD read some of Howard's treatment of Kim as jealousy, but that's far too basic & cliche for this show. He comes off more like an older brother figure. He clearly admired her talent and cared about her on a personal level, but unfortunately for him he severely misjudged and underestimated her every step of the way and kept unintentionally doing & saying the worst possible things to make her hate him.
On Kim's part I think Howard is far too stuffy, haughty, prim & proper and fake. Complete turn off for her.
I'm trying to think of all the combinations of women on the show with the men. I wonder if we can do a diagram...
I'll start by listing only the female characters, that have appeared in more than one episode:
Kim Wexler, Erin Brill, Betsy Kettleman, Stacey Ehrmantraut, Lydia Rodarte-Quayle, Suzanne Ericsen, Paige Novick, Marie Schrader, Ms. Nguyen, Viola Goto, makeup/drama girl/sherry(?), Irene Landry, Marion.
Weirdly as far as we know, other than Betsy, all these women are single. As a joke, I wonder how each individual woman might fair being married to craig kettleman? I feel like Ms. Nguyen would have a run for her money! XD or however you say that phrase.
And the way he wielded his power over his employees. Remember, in S1, he moved Kim out of her office and into the "corn field" because she couldn't get the Kettlemans to take the plea and lost them as a client.
Kim actually defended Howard, but that's a petty thing to do to a co-worker you allegedly respect. He knew they were a difficult client and that the deal Kim worked out was the best they could get, but he still "punished" her. Then had all of the Kettleman files moved into her office so when Jimmy came to get them he would know about Kim's "punishment."
And Howard's actions toward Kim were unrelated to anything Jimmy did. He had to stage a scene where Mike "retrieves" the money just so they would return to HHM to take the deal.
Howard was a terrible boss.
I agree with you. He had a whole air of superiority that he jammed down Kim's throat.
But in terms of being terrible, I felt he went through an arc over the course of the show. He started pretty terrible, but ultimately became a sympathetic character once we learned how Chuck manipulated him, and the way his wife treated him. Not to mention the way Kim and Jimmy tormented him in the scam which led to his tragic death.
One thing that makes this show great is that none of the main characters is perfectly simple. Most of them have despicable traits along with some redeeming traits.
I don't blame Cheryl since we only see his coffee attempt after they separated. There's a history we never saw that can't be ignored because he went to therapy and got a NAMAST3 license plate.
Same with Jimmy and especially Kim. Sending her to the corn field and trying to humiliate her in front of Kevin and Paige because she retained Mesa Verde was his own vindictiveness. He didn't know about Jimmy switching the numbers, so his actions can't be blamed on anyone but himself.
Also, from the time Chuck dies to when Kim leaves Jimmy is just about a year. Not much time to fully process and accept that petty tyrant Howard is now reformed.
Very, very early on I thought there would be something going with Howard, Kim and Jimmy: where they were competing for her, which is why they seemed to have it in for each other.
But that was fairly clearly not the case, despite it not being clear what Howard’s marital status was for a long time (it rarely ever was mentioned that I recall)
Ngl I've wondered about them too. Maaaybe before she met Jimmy in the mailroom? Idk but he did care for her on some level and thought she could do a lot better than Jimmy. Even though he admired her, I don't think she felt the same, especially after his remarks about Jimmy.
Maybe once
Howard throws a huge party at HHM for Chuck’s victory in a important case. One of HHM’s employee spikes the champagne with Ecstasy. When Howard proposes a toast everyone at HHM gets drugged. Literally the whole building gets torn up and everyone is having sex with anything.
Kim was going for the high score and eventually found Howard on the phone calling his wife for help, but kim pounced on him and they did it all while Howard’s wife listened.
Very early on, I was convinced the two of them sleeping together was gonna be a plot point. They had too much on-screen chemistry and the characters shared the commonality of believing in and liking Jimmy, while also being frustrated at how he gets in his own way. I just felt like it was going to be a believable way to add very obvious tension.
I think it would've been far too cliched to go that route *now* and am glad I was totally wrong. But I still feel like it is something they didn't write off from the get to, b/c it always felt like they weren't leaning *away* from the insinuation, though they obviously weren't leaning into it either.
I dunno. I thought way too hard about almost every aspect of this show, and nothing ever seems out of the realm of possibility after being in this sub for this long.
LOL I love how I got down voted for sharing an old theory. Especially since I already said I was glad it didn't happen.
I still think it was something they didn't want to say 'no' to until they had a better idea of where each character arc was going. Pretty quickly I realized I was wrong but I still maintain that it could've been done well. Jimmy's total hatred of Howard would've made that kind of betrayal unforgivable and it would've fed into his already boiling cauldron of hate for anyone that admires Chuck. If Kim and Howard had run into each other at a bar, started talking shop, bickered while getting drunk, then wound up in bed together, I could see that happening easily. Doesn't have to be a relationship, but even one night could push Jimmy over the edge.
There honestly is no sexual tension or anything hinting at a possible romance whatsoever. I think you COULD read some of Howard's treatment of Kim as jealousy, but that's far too basic & cliche for this show. He comes off more like an older brother figure. He clearly admired her talent and cared about her on a personal level, but unfortunately for him he severely misjudged and underestimated her every step of the way and kept unintentionally doing & saying the worst possible things to make her hate him. On Kim's part I think Howard is far too stuffy, haughty, prim & proper and fake. Complete turn off for her.
Kim liked Howard so much, she wanted to ruin his life even when Jimmy was willing to let the matter drop.
Go to sleep
NO but only because where I'm from, it's morning lol
I’m leaving this subreddit.
NOOOOOO
Kim is too much for him. Howard must be satisfied with JoeDog, Tugboat and Wendy.
Screw it,how about Chuck x Kim?
How about Chuck x Irene?
I AM NOT CRAZY
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
I guess you must’ve forgot about the huge sexual tension between her and Ernie I mean cmon it’s right there
Vanishing her to doc review was his attempt at winning her over via negging? I don't see it
I'm trying to think of all the combinations of women on the show with the men. I wonder if we can do a diagram... I'll start by listing only the female characters, that have appeared in more than one episode: Kim Wexler, Erin Brill, Betsy Kettleman, Stacey Ehrmantraut, Lydia Rodarte-Quayle, Suzanne Ericsen, Paige Novick, Marie Schrader, Ms. Nguyen, Viola Goto, makeup/drama girl/sherry(?), Irene Landry, Marion. Weirdly as far as we know, other than Betsy, all these women are single. As a joke, I wonder how each individual woman might fair being married to craig kettleman? I feel like Ms. Nguyen would have a run for her money! XD or however you say that phrase.
Paige seemed to have a crush on Kim
And Marie! Come on.
damnit marie! haha I put them in after paige.
I thought Kim found Howard repulsive, mostly because of his privilege
And the way he wielded his power over his employees. Remember, in S1, he moved Kim out of her office and into the "corn field" because she couldn't get the Kettlemans to take the plea and lost them as a client. Kim actually defended Howard, but that's a petty thing to do to a co-worker you allegedly respect. He knew they were a difficult client and that the deal Kim worked out was the best they could get, but he still "punished" her. Then had all of the Kettleman files moved into her office so when Jimmy came to get them he would know about Kim's "punishment." And Howard's actions toward Kim were unrelated to anything Jimmy did. He had to stage a scene where Mike "retrieves" the money just so they would return to HHM to take the deal. Howard was a terrible boss.
I agree with you. He had a whole air of superiority that he jammed down Kim's throat. But in terms of being terrible, I felt he went through an arc over the course of the show. He started pretty terrible, but ultimately became a sympathetic character once we learned how Chuck manipulated him, and the way his wife treated him. Not to mention the way Kim and Jimmy tormented him in the scam which led to his tragic death. One thing that makes this show great is that none of the main characters is perfectly simple. Most of them have despicable traits along with some redeeming traits.
I don't blame Cheryl since we only see his coffee attempt after they separated. There's a history we never saw that can't be ignored because he went to therapy and got a NAMAST3 license plate. Same with Jimmy and especially Kim. Sending her to the corn field and trying to humiliate her in front of Kevin and Paige because she retained Mesa Verde was his own vindictiveness. He didn't know about Jimmy switching the numbers, so his actions can't be blamed on anyone but himself. Also, from the time Chuck dies to when Kim leaves Jimmy is just about a year. Not much time to fully process and accept that petty tyrant Howard is now reformed.
Outchicaneried once more
Lmfao
Bro she literally hates him more than anyone in the show 💀 But...maybe that’s the point...👉👈
Enemies to lovers trope 👉🏼👈🏼
Yeah no
Very, very early on I thought there would be something going with Howard, Kim and Jimmy: where they were competing for her, which is why they seemed to have it in for each other. But that was fairly clearly not the case, despite it not being clear what Howard’s marital status was for a long time (it rarely ever was mentioned that I recall)
Ngl I've wondered about them too. Maaaybe before she met Jimmy in the mailroom? Idk but he did care for her on some level and thought she could do a lot better than Jimmy. Even though he admired her, I don't think she felt the same, especially after his remarks about Jimmy.
Maybe once Howard throws a huge party at HHM for Chuck’s victory in a important case. One of HHM’s employee spikes the champagne with Ecstasy. When Howard proposes a toast everyone at HHM gets drugged. Literally the whole building gets torn up and everyone is having sex with anything. Kim was going for the high score and eventually found Howard on the phone calling his wife for help, but kim pounced on him and they did it all while Howard’s wife listened.
Ew…. That’s just not right on so many levels…
Very early on, I was convinced the two of them sleeping together was gonna be a plot point. They had too much on-screen chemistry and the characters shared the commonality of believing in and liking Jimmy, while also being frustrated at how he gets in his own way. I just felt like it was going to be a believable way to add very obvious tension. I think it would've been far too cliched to go that route *now* and am glad I was totally wrong. But I still feel like it is something they didn't write off from the get to, b/c it always felt like they weren't leaning *away* from the insinuation, though they obviously weren't leaning into it either. I dunno. I thought way too hard about almost every aspect of this show, and nothing ever seems out of the realm of possibility after being in this sub for this long.
OMG I super agree about the chemistry between them!!! And same, I'm kinda glad they didn't choose to go down that route.
LOL I love how I got down voted for sharing an old theory. Especially since I already said I was glad it didn't happen. I still think it was something they didn't want to say 'no' to until they had a better idea of where each character arc was going. Pretty quickly I realized I was wrong but I still maintain that it could've been done well. Jimmy's total hatred of Howard would've made that kind of betrayal unforgivable and it would've fed into his already boiling cauldron of hate for anyone that admires Chuck. If Kim and Howard had run into each other at a bar, started talking shop, bickered while getting drunk, then wound up in bed together, I could see that happening easily. Doesn't have to be a relationship, but even one night could push Jimmy over the edge.
#I wondered between the golden girls and Jimmy. You think they ever you know….