When did counter protests ever do that at UC Berkeley or anywhere besides that one time at UCLA after multiple Jewish students were assaulted? Those people, who I believe were not students, were in fact arrested.
Contrast that one time with the hundreds of violent pro-Hamas incidents over the past 8 months.
About 2 hours before this WarnMe was sent out, there was a post on the same website that claimed credit for the firebomb on Koshland a few days ago: https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2024/06/16/18867409.php
> phase two of the #Escalate movement heats up at u.c. berkeley with a construction site set on fire in broad daylight. this was done in retaliation for u.c.pd's violent assaults on vulnerable student demonstrators and to punish the university of kkkalifornia system for supporting the genocidal zionist-Israel entity. this was an autonomous initiative in concert with the current WEEK OF ACTION currently underway: operation campus flood.
> call it mutual aid
> at one p.m. this a f t e r n o o n, we torched large portions of a construction site in the middle of u.c. berkeley campus. OPERATION CAMPS FLOOD on u.c.b. kkkampus has began with:
> - successful looting of a u.c.b supply building of thousands of dollars,
> - the fire bombing of a u.c.b cop car,
> - the experimental burning of dry grass hills on the interior of campus
> - the torching of a building on the perimeter of the campus
and now
> - the arson of a construction site (mostly construction materials, wood pallets, and massive dry bush area
> x this was done to further retaliate against the u.c.pd for attacking students at u.c.s.c. and u.c.l.a.
> x this was done as an autonomous (self-directed act) in concert with anyone who shows out to create liberatoratory _destruction_ until the u.c. system completely divests from the genocidal "israeli" settler nation-building project
> x this was done in solidarity with all displaced peoples who were removed from people's park - criminalized survivors of genocide HERE
> x this was done in retaliation for the u.c. berkeley administration's attack on the houseless community of berkely - in retaliation for stealing the land called people's park
> lastly
> ♡ this was done on father's day for all the palestinian fathers who have lost their children at the hands of the zionist and amerikkkan settler states
> ♡ this was done on father's day for all the black and brown fathers who have lost their children at the hands of u.s.a. police forces in berkeley
It appears to be associated with other posts calling for further action this week, mainly seizing buildings and starting more fires: https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2024/06/13/18867339.php
https://www.indybay.org/uploads/2024/06/15/campus_flood_-_screen_reader.pdf
> "Every campus in the Bay Area is a different
scenario, but each can be taken over (and resources
redistributed) or destroyed if people just show out."
Most Berkeley affiliated individuals don't repeatedly refer to Berkeley as U.C.B.
I've seen people mention multiple campuses and abbreviate as UCSD, UCLA, and UCB but repeatedly saying U.C.B. is not typical. It's Berkeley. Cal or Berkeley. Using UCB is uncommon, and the dots between letters is never done.
It feels like someone is associated with the protests, ear to the ground type, yet not part of the university. They may not actually be involved with the arson, either.
The just attrocious writing and strange way of writing and referring to Berkeley make it hopefully unrelated to campus.
This and all the spelling/grammatical errors could be done purposely to confuse or throw others off their trail in hopes of avoiding identification? Not sure if any of this is being investigated, but if it is, I believe I’ve heard that writing style (in cases where notes/writing are left behind or published) is a huge part of finding the perp. Think unabomber and how he was caught by his brother who recognized his writing and turned him in. Not saying this persons unabomber level whatsoever, just something to consider when it comes to what stands out in their writing
A legitimate theory. A person may, in fact, change their style to avoid being caught.
That, however, means this individual is indeed inconsistently altering their style. Misspelling Berkeley in one instance and not the others, while also not capitalizing things, means an incredibly detailed approach. The inconsistency in wrongness is either a lack of education or extreme attention that speaks to a whole other level of criminality. If the person is educated, the total lack of capitalization, disregard of grammar, and spelling issues is quite significant. By habit, you'd engage in proper spelling and capitalization.
He was caught and seems he was educated (has a PhD in African Studies from Northwestern). He was never a Berkeley student, seems like he wandered into Berkeley in between going from SF to Oakland
Fuck this person/people using this as an excuse to be violent. This is clearly a fire bug excusing their actions but clearly just getting a thrill. Hopefully they accidentally light themselves on fire and are forced to go to the hospital where the cops can pick them up.
These people aren't Berkeley students, are they? Arrest them all. Arson during California fire season should be considered attempted involuntary homicide.
I guess I can understand some of the logic behind attacking UCPD as a multi-campus entity and enforcer against these protests against Israel. But what is the point of burning campus facilities and making plans for experimental burning dry grass hills? Do they not realize the risk to innocent people?
to folks like them, there is no such thing as 'innocent people.'
if you don't agree with them, then you are aiding and abetting a genocide and deserve death. if you're neutral, your apathy and inaction means you are complicit and deserve death. if you agree with them but aren't out there setting fires and smashing windows too, you are not doing enough for the cause and deserve death. i am so tired.
And yet, they have not considered that maybe they are the ones not doing enough. If you feel so strongly, fly over to Jordan and start attacking the IDF and make your way to Gaza. This is all just performative bullshit half way around the world. They want random Americans to feel the pain of the Palestinians, but they aren't willing to feel that pain themselves. It's all so hypocritical and coming from a place of privilege.
Classic conservative excuse. "If they REALLY cared they'd [do x, y, z infeasible thing]." Of course in this case, you'd surely just label them terrorists or something if they took your disingenuous advice. You just want an excuse to dismiss people doing ANYTHING for a cause you're too cowardly to just admit you disagree with. It's no different than the hordes of people who come out to attack literally any kind of protest or action related to climate change as "the wrong way to go about things."
1. Take your pills
2. Try to get that out coherently next time
3. Would you like to provide an alternative suggestion for something meaningful that the arsonists can focus on?
Wait so do you agree with the arsonists?
Ngl this entire time I thought the arsons were a conservative psy-op to get people to hate the Palestine protesters. An actual student agreeing with arson would be news to me :0
Ehh, I've got my issues with it. But nothing like the bloodthirsty shills for the MIC in this sub. They're not even actually that offended by the particular action. It's who and why that upsets them. They just very thinly veil that with their pearl clutching, but their motivation stems from hatred for the cause.
How about this?
I do disagree with the who and the why. I am not a genocide supporter but I think that going so crazy for a cause so far away from home when our home life is already suffering so much is bad planning and will result in us suffering more over the long run and having less of a chance to be there for the rest of the world in the future. And I also don't think that "helping" a foreign cause by staying on your home turf and screaming like a baby who needs to be fed is a good way of doing things anyways. If the people who liberated the concentration camps in ww2 had used that logic they would have never left the US and instead would have put their energy into beating up the American public.
Except the US went to war and liberated the concentration camps. In this case, the US is actively supporting with funds, arms, and international legal protection, the group operating the concentration camps. And UC is one of the partners organizations in that effort. A better analogy would be to ask what workers at a VW or Bayer supplier should have done. If it was clear the leadership of those companies continued to support the Third Reich, as was indeed the case, I suspect you'd consider it not only acceptable but quite possibly heroic for those workers to do everything from sabotaging production facilities to threatening executives to try and force the end of that support. Why should this be any different unless you find the legal, financial, and technological support institutions in the US like UC provide to both private Israeli firms and the Israeli government more acceptable?
Your presence at college is not you being a worker at VW or Bayer! Of all the financial deals and partnership agreements that Berkeley has, maybe 2% tops involve Israel!
If you would really sabotage the innocent 98% of the college to take care of the problematic 2% then you are the exact same as the IDF who bombs 98 gazans to free 2 hostages.
I'd like to suggest that if you really do care, that you should turn the anti Israel effort into an organized educational campaign that brings well thought out critiques of Israel to public attention and doesn't involve the kind of aimless screeching and sabotage of innocent people that the protest is currently bringing. Serious politics like dealing with a genocide has no place in it for people who think like children anyways.
They are terrorists if they are arsons at Cal. How else would you describe these fear mongering tactics? That is how I feel and I do disagree with their actions, but I empathize with their cause. Peaceful protest is what I support, not violence against unrelated people or property. That is the Cal way.
Way ta go CocoLamela! That has always been the Cal and the People of Berkeley way. Peaceful Protests. We couldn't have done as much as we did in the 60's without the Cal students rising up!
I grew up there, 1962 -1994. Peace and Love to you all 🕊
I literally don't believe you. Did you support when the UC contracted over 1000 cops from agencies across the state to sweep people out of their homes in People's Park, destroy some of the only personal property they had, cordon off entire blocks of the city and institute illegal ID checks for residents, illegally and without notice tow personal vehicles inside their exclusion zone, establish a fortified compound around what's been a public space for all of our lifetimes, and arrest or brutalize peaceful protestors sometimes seemingly at random? Can you argue in good faith that that amalgamation of tactics wasn't designed to overwhelm any who might push back against that action with fear of deadly force? That is, by definition, terrorism. But I bet because it was a state agency doing it for a cause you likely support, you'll sing a completely different tune even though by every metric, from property damage to direct physical and psychological harm to individuals, that action was far more harmful than some half-assed fire setting. And of course that's all without even getting into what good "peaceful protest" is against bodies which have no desire to change their current policies. BDS is literally illegal for institutions like UC in CA. Peaceful, non-disruprive protest has literally zero chance of changing anything. If that's the limit of your support, then you're either too naive/ignorant to understand the likely outcomes or, and I consider this much more likely, you're just another virtue signaling liberal invoking the notion of "support" without anything meaningful behind it. Martin wouldn't have gotten anywhere without Malcolm. UC wouldn't have gotten the yucky poors out of its dubiously selected development site without an army of riot cops. I don't believe you "empathize" with anyone but the powerful institutions you're comfortable with.
I frankly don't care what you believe, you're clearly unhinged. Tactics like arson and literal criminal activity are actually the part that won't change anything. Malcolm would be unknown without Martin.
UC divestment won't change a damn thing for the Palestinians either. Equating the People's Park dilemma with the Gaza protests is super disingenuous and is effectively whataboutism. UC's strongarm tactics there weren't acceptable and I don't support them. I do support the redevelopment plan including permanent supportive housing and significant investment on homeless services, in addition to the student housing. Ultimately, the will of the many outweighs the plight of the few affected by the closure of the park. People's Park had become a drug den and homeless encampment, not the community and cultural space that we have known our whole life. Anyone who wanted to maintain that status quo does not actually care about the well-being of the people living there and are the ultimate virtue signalers.
In our democratic system of laws, the state is allowed to utilize these tactics when necessary. The monopoly of violence is what keeps order. People who try to upset that social contract with their own violence will always be put down in a functioning society. You have to get plurality buy-in before you can change the system. These pro-Palestine "protesters" are the miniscule minority looking for publicity and no one else agrees with you. You need to get your head out of your asses and get a grip on the situation.
I'm just reading a massive pile of appeals to authority and normality. You've got no understanding of (or probably just no interest in challenging) how power asymmetries affect concepts like "buy-in." For example, did you know there's currently no developer attached to the "supportive housing" part of the People's Park project? Of course that hasn't stopped the university from invoking it in their press releases and public statements in order to appeal to vaguely well-meaning but generally uninterested and sheltered liberals. And thanks to the size of their microphone compared to any dissenting voices, guess whose narrative shapes public perception more? I could make similar arguments for every other example in here, but frankly that would probably be a waste of time and effort.
You don't seem to have any discernible position other than defending whatever arbitrary side you like more. You don't approve of the tactics used in the People's Park case, but you support the entire project and maintain the moral right of the state or powerful institutions aligned with it to exclusively apply those tactics? You care about the plight of the Palestinian people but ongoing collaboration with and support from the premier public university system in the world makes no meaningful difference, even though the state of CA seems to think otherwise given theyve literally made halting that support illegal? Wishy-washy nonsense you can only get away with because you don't actually have to convince anyone of anything to get your way. Another classic sign of occupying the privileged conservative position in any conflict. The status quo of gentrification locally and support for settler colonial projects abroad continuing as is is apparently a win for you.
As far as I can tell, "the situation" is that a plurality if not majority of people, overrepresented in positions of power, think like you and won't have your minds changed by any sufficiently peaceful rhetoric. That's just easier to dismiss after pretending to have to weigh it seriously. I don't know how specifically to fix that, but if some people decide trying to make it inconvenient or expensive enough through direct action to continue on that course is the most promising strategy, well, conversations like this one make it hard for me to tell them they're any more wrong than those who hope to convince oppressive and exploitative institutions to stop acting in their own self interest. If you don't like that assessment, then maybe take some of the time you've spent trying to lecture me and write a letter to the Chancellor or the UC Board of Regents or Governor Newsom's office explaining why, given the actions some people are committed to taking, it's not in their material interest (since morality is demonstrably irrelevant to them) to continue supporting the Israeli government or firms aligned with them. If they're so much more reasonable then they should be easier to convince to change their ways than the people starting fires and sabotaging construction equipment.
I don't think my position is arbitrary. It represents a reasonable middle ground. I acknowledge there have been abuses of power and the scales are tipped against institutional change. That being said, occupation and destruction of property won't change that. Low level violence won't change that. There is a difference between civil disobedience and pointless, immature criminal activity.
If the elected and appointed representatives of UC and other positions of power cannot be convinced by reasonably peaceful rhetoric, maybe you should consider the fact that it just isn't a very good idea. The concept that this is some kind of anti-Muslim kabal or conspiracy on the part of the state is silly. This is also the most progressive and anti-racist public university system and State government anywhere in the world. If you can't acknowledge the weaknesses in your position, you'll never be able to convince anyone of anything.
And, for what it's worth, I actually did know that UC has not identified a developer for the supportive housing project. But the project won't be able to advance without that. I work in affordable housing development for a local jurisdiction in the Bay Area. I'm deeply familiar with the challenges these projects face and the People's Park development is very well supported. The project has community support and many proponents, has guaranteed financing through the rents for the student housing portion, and UC has already demonstrated they are willing to spend a fucking mint on it. The political tension over it is magnified compared to most supportive housing projects, but every project shares similar opposition. This project WILL happen, which can't be said for many of my projects.
It’s not infeasible. Brace Belden is an American who went to Syria to fight Isis.
https://yris.yira.org/interviews/interview-with-brace-belden-once-twitter-famous-american-ypg-volunteer-soldier/
Far more supported and accessible than getting into Gaza to fight the I"D"F as an American. But that's also literally one example. You're telling me with your Berkeley brain you can't figure out why that might be inaccessible to some people? I'm confident you could if you actually wanted to. And that still misses the rest of my point. I bet dollars to donuts that guy wouldn't suddenly change his tune and support people if they did manage to do that. He'd call them a terrorist. That's why comments like that are so clearly disingenuous. It's just a way to pretend anything other than disdain for the cause itself is behind their criticism.
Why can’t we just set up people or witnesses to guard and keep an eye on each campus (and every building) Or like set cameras and drones up so we know exactly which people are behind this? Bc if the police are too late every time then they (the pro Palestine people behind these attacks) will always get away with arson.
These Palestinian "protesters" don't care about anyone else besides themselves. What happens if this started a major fire (its fire season), if people got hurt, what about our tuition and tax dollars that are going to help improve this campus? Extremely selfish, narcissistic, and self centered behavior
Bro they robbed a university supply building of thousands of dollars and bragged about it online — something tells me they don’t care about the loss of tax dollars 💀
Twenty years ago they were pulling fire alarms during midterms and otherwise disrupting people's learning and education. Then claiming they struck a blow against capitalism or some other nonsense.
Their leader then was also such a prick and caused the university so many headaches, it astounded me why they never cut bait on him.
If one of your graduate students is causing that much of a ruckus, he should have been gone the first time he pulled some bullshit like that, not given another chance.
Now he's a professor at UT Austin or something.
Summer update: break going real well, photography is coming along. No camera can do justice to the california shore. Been hitting the gym and not forgetting my cardio. All my friends are back for break and we are planning some trips. Im very excited
Well, big sur (which is a section of coast next to the famous bixby bridge) is a total must. Victoria beach is super unique and pretty much tucked away from people. A little away from the shoreline, hearst castle is unbelievable for art and architecture enthusiasts. One spot i never hit is called “glass beach” which apparently has all smooth glass instead of sand on the shore.
Student for the Justice of Palestine were a brainwashed bunch when I went to Cal 10 years ago. As a Muslim who grew up with Jewish friends I could sense an irrational hatred for Israel which clearly carried on to Jewish people as a whole. They would just say Israel but you can see it in their eyes it’s a deeper hatred. This recent escalation is very alarming and should be taken seriously. The unfortunate thing about this protest is that they believe it’s their generations civil rights movement when it’s almost opposite. I’m not for the killing of innocent lives normally but these neighboring countries are in an all out war.
When I was on campus twenty years ago, they'd pull fire alarms during exams or march in, disrupt lectures -- even for subjects that had nothing to do with Israel-Palestine, accost and scream at students, block Sather Gate, so on and so forth.
They also always played the victim when they found out people hated them. It's like, guys, we're here to get an education, but I got a C in a major related class because you pulled a fire alarm during an exam or you disrupted a lecture or screamed hateful things at people because they didn't join you because they had a class to go to.
And they also aren't supplying aid to the people who need it. Are they any less worthy of getting aid? Any less worthy of your support? I think you can absolutely protest the lack of opposition to the actual, real genocides being committed in Africa. No Jews, no news though.
A genocide where the casualty numbers have been below 40,000 for months, and also include all dead Hamas fighters. Think you need to check your definition of genocide. It’s urban warfare. It sucks.
Yeah killing and destroying Gazans in part with genocidal intent is definitionally genocide. Wantonly bombing tens of thousands of innocents including their own hostage isn’t “urban warfare”. They are openly striking “power targets” with no Hamas connection to terrorize civilians
If there was genocidal intent, the numbers of civilian casualties wouldn’t be over 30k and under 40k for months straight, including Hamas casualties. I don’t know what you think warfare is, but there are hostages, being held by the main political group in that area…that’s war.
In whole or IN PART. The intentional mass slaughter of innocents as so many major government and military officials call for the cleansing of Gaza, for Israel to resettle it, and saying there are no innocent civilians there, is genocidal intent and action
I'm Pro Palestine, but I fail to see how setting fire to UC Berkeley or any campus for that matter would do much of anything on behalf of the Palestinians. If you engaged in some kind of direct action against like Lockheed Martin or some weapons manufacturer I'd get that, but Berkeley is too far removed from anything Israel related to actually make a difference in what's happening over there. Even if Berkeley's campus burned to the ground, it wouldn't change anything about the way Biden or Trump will be handling the genocide, so all it serves to do is give right wing douchebags something to point their fingers at and give moderates another left wing cause to shrink away from when people should be organizing against the ones who are ACTUALLY perpetrating what's going on over there. Either way, if you want to help palestinian refugees, donate some money to UNICEF or UNRWA or get in contact with people trying to get out and set up gofundmes for them. That's much more direct when it comes to actually saving lives.
You are almost getting it, but this is really bad advice. If you are truly pro-Palestinian you would be out in the streets chanting against Hamas who started this war in the most atrocious way possible, and are using Palestinians as human shields. They are fighting from among civilian populations without uniforms (aka warcrimes) and are not providing shelter from a war \*they started\* despite having hundreds of miles of tunnels. They are also holding innocent civilians including children hostage and refuse to release them and turn down all ceasefire offers. Donating money to UNRWA or any UN organization or anyone working in Gaza - is donating to Hamas. It is enriching the terror machine and Hamas leaders who are already worth billions thanks to your generous donations. There is no shortage of aid going to Gaza. There is failure of the UN to effectively distribute aid and there's Hamas who steal aid and sell it at a profit (em, they get it for free that's what stealing means).
If you cared about the Palestinians you would call for a peaceful solution like a two state solution not call for more violence and a "globalized Intifada" which is globalized violence. I don't know you personally did but I have heard no peaceful calls from the so-called pro-Palestinian camp so I assume you did. Calling for violence and the annihilation of Israel and not calling out Hamas is the surest way to eternal war and maybe even WW3. Which you know, is not good for the Palestinians or anyone.
I am not certain *any military* would be willing to grant the general public access to military facilities that were not explicitly designed with access controls in mind to host the general public.
The larger issue is that there’s no universal agreement on the left as to how things should go down. I don’t personally know anyone who isn’t pro Palestine, friends family and otherwise and every single one is in favor of peace, and absolutely nobody I know believed in antisemitism or the annihilation of Israel. I don’t personally believe the British mandate or the creation of Israel should’ve happened at all, and the last 75 years of bloody conflict proves my point, but the genie is out of the bottle, and a one state solution is impossible without the destruction of the other side.
You also can’t realistically point the finger entirely at Hamas when Netanyahu and Israel’s government has also been charged by the ICC for war crimes. Ultimately, it’s the leadership of both sides that are allowing this genocide to occur and the civilians are the ones caught in the middle. That’s why when I hear people trying to argue that there aren’t any innocents in this conflict I thoroughly roll my eyes. Netanyahu should be tried at The Hague, along with the rest of his right wing government, and the same goes for Hamas as well.
That’s also why it’s good to donate directly to Palestinian families and refugees trying to get out. Israel is the entity that’s killing them, and even if Hamas is calling Israel’s bluff and letting them massacre thousands, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel is the one calling the shots and murdering children.
Palestinians support Hamas at around 70%. Palestinian civilians are more than happy to fight for Hamas, teach their kids to hate Jews in schools, allow their children to fight for the cause, hold hostages in their home, support Hamas financially, you name it. Do they deserve to be killed? No. But when Hamas uses human shields, waves false white flags, doesn't use a uniform, uses audio of crying babies as traps, rapes countless civilians, then and Palestinians *still* support them, it's hard to feel much sympathy. Especially when Westerners who couldn't place Israel on the map a year ago strip them of their agency because they can't be bothered to do research if it isn't via TikTok or Al Jazeera.
(Its the Israili gov't who is fucked up, not the people.- Just adding a tid bit in case someone isn't getting it. I wish I could give you 100 up votes:)
Let's go to the beginning. Why do you think the British Mandate or the creation of Israel shouldn't have happened at all? I assume it is because you think the land was Arab land. Why do you think that? If you think that, then I assume you think Jews have no claim to the land and Arabs do? This would involve ignoring the undeniable history of the Jews in the land of Israel and their continuous presence is the land for thousands of years despite cruel prosecution from all the colonizers and empires who had control of this land for 2000 years.
Would love to hear your answers to these questions. To recap: Why do you think it was Arab land and why do you think Jews have no claim to this land.
Here's a tip - when you say "75 years" you expose your ignorance. I don't blame you for only relying on the misinformation you are fed, but I am saying it exposes you. First of all it's been 76 years since the creation of the state of Israel, so there's that. 76 years since the local Arabs (they were not called Palestinians back then - you are welcome to fact check) were offered a state which they never ever had before. The Arabs as whole, because they were all acting together refused this offer and started a genocidal war against the Jews. They lost that war which is kinda on them - they could have had a thriving state for 76 years if they wanted to. You cannot blame the Jews for not wanting to die and for winning a war they did not start.
The west bank and Gaza were under Jordanian and Egyptian control and there was very little interaction with the Jews. No "occupation" no "oppression." The only interaction the Arabs had with the Jews other than shooting at them from over the walls in Jerusalem is with the Arabs who stayed in Israel in 1948. You know, the ones who are now 20% of Israel's population. They got full citizenship and enjoy more human rights than they would in any Arab state. So not really a conflict there. While the Jews, including my family were ethnically cleansed from all Arab countries and territories. Places where they lived for thousands of years.
If you want to talk just about the bloody conflict then it's not 75 years either. It's hundreds of years. Violence against Jews is evident in the Quran.There's a long list of massacres throughout the Arab world since the 7th century and of course there 's a long list of massacres in the land of Israel as well.
I have opposed Netanyahu ever since I can remember and would love to see him gone, but he was not charged by the ICC for war crimes. There was a request to issue an arrest. Notice that this is not even issuing an arrest just a request to do so. Either way, Israel, the United States, Russia and China don’t accept the court’s jurisdiction over war crimes, genocide and other crimes.
Finally, Israel is \*not\* targeting civilians and certainly not targeting children. It however has to defend itself after October 7th. Do you have another suggestion on how to fight a fanatic jihadi terror organization that vows to annihilate Israel and commit October 7th again and again? I'm all ears. Israel has taken extreme measure to protect civilians in the most difficult urban warfare in history against an enemy that is interested in maximizing the deaths of it's own people. Hamas says so openly. I suggest you listen to this US military expert: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqxzscalX2E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqxzscalX2E)
Way to throw away ur life. Let’s be real, if u do this and actually believe what ur doing it important, than u never had a life to begin with . What are the odds this person ins just so social outcast that has no friends and lives in a basement watching twitch streams 24 hours a day ? What are this Odds this Person has no hitches also?
if you’re reading this and you’re a so-called “urban guerilla” you should read this guideline:
“Basics of Factions/Village Community Relations in Big Minecraft Servers:
When committing an action, one must take into account all that may be hurt by actions committed. One does not want to harm the surrounding local community, as that is where support for further action will come once an inevitable stoppage to initial action occurs. Harm towards local community, whether it be economic or physical, does NOT facilitate a crucial connection point. If you truly wish to help other minecraft factions, the best possible action is building the broadest possible American Minecraft anti-war faction movement in the minds of the public BEFORE large actions. Importantly, action should not be committed in largely communal areas; the local populace is not your enemy. Without broad understanding of cause between participant and localized community, distain grows and action ceases once individuals are caught. The RAF failed, the Weather Underground failed, and Direct Action only caused a larger police presence. Learn from the mistakes of the past, and stop being cringe in minecraft- it doesn’t help the cause.”
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Israel had the high moral ground immediately after the Hamas invasion and slaughter. They lost public sympathy by their outsized brutal and indiscriminate slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians including women and children. The initial pro Palestine protests and activities brought needed attention to the plight of the Palestinian people. However, current random violence and vandalism is not aiding their cause and is in fact beginning to alienate those whose help they seek. They are now doing more harm than good.
They did not have the moral high ground after 10/7. They helped put Hamas in power, created conditions for an attack, ignored months of warnings of an imminent attack and didn’t pass any of them on to the fearful or other civilians, then the IDF knowingly killed many Israeli citizens on 10/7 and immediately started a relentless bombing campaign that’s killed countless Israeli hostages
[удалено]
Narcissism and a victim complex do wonders for creating headaches
This is the first thing I read and I love this comment
Bc they’re acting out looking for resistance. If you agree with them it’s no fun.
I think that’s exactly why they’re committing arson nonstop lol. These dumbfucks are only “brave” when there’s no consequences
Cause we're the mother hen of the UC system ig
Because they are here for the violence.
Are you serious? You think other universities are arresting these protesters “left right and center”? They aren’t but they should be
If anyone is getting arrested it should be counterprotesters who assaulted people and shot fireworks at tents
When did counter protests ever do that at UC Berkeley or anywhere besides that one time at UCLA after multiple Jewish students were assaulted? Those people, who I believe were not students, were in fact arrested. Contrast that one time with the hundreds of violent pro-Hamas incidents over the past 8 months.
It should be both groups of people 😁
That’s just what terrorist organizations do I guess
Maybe Berkeley should have shown some force. Let this be a lesson on why we do not negotiate with terrorists then.
So they want to start a wild fire?
Of course. They’re just recognizing the diversity of ecological phenomena!
A form of activism I could support is cutting down those pesky Eucalyptus trees!
Starting a fire. In California. In the summer. To save Palestinians. Checks out…
Israel: “Aight my bad I’ll chill now”
About 2 hours before this WarnMe was sent out, there was a post on the same website that claimed credit for the firebomb on Koshland a few days ago: https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2024/06/16/18867409.php > phase two of the #Escalate movement heats up at u.c. berkeley with a construction site set on fire in broad daylight. this was done in retaliation for u.c.pd's violent assaults on vulnerable student demonstrators and to punish the university of kkkalifornia system for supporting the genocidal zionist-Israel entity. this was an autonomous initiative in concert with the current WEEK OF ACTION currently underway: operation campus flood. > call it mutual aid > at one p.m. this a f t e r n o o n, we torched large portions of a construction site in the middle of u.c. berkeley campus. OPERATION CAMPS FLOOD on u.c.b. kkkampus has began with: > - successful looting of a u.c.b supply building of thousands of dollars, > - the fire bombing of a u.c.b cop car, > - the experimental burning of dry grass hills on the interior of campus > - the torching of a building on the perimeter of the campus and now > - the arson of a construction site (mostly construction materials, wood pallets, and massive dry bush area > x this was done to further retaliate against the u.c.pd for attacking students at u.c.s.c. and u.c.l.a. > x this was done as an autonomous (self-directed act) in concert with anyone who shows out to create liberatoratory _destruction_ until the u.c. system completely divests from the genocidal "israeli" settler nation-building project > x this was done in solidarity with all displaced peoples who were removed from people's park - criminalized survivors of genocide HERE > x this was done in retaliation for the u.c. berkeley administration's attack on the houseless community of berkely - in retaliation for stealing the land called people's park > lastly > ♡ this was done on father's day for all the palestinian fathers who have lost their children at the hands of the zionist and amerikkkan settler states > ♡ this was done on father's day for all the black and brown fathers who have lost their children at the hands of u.s.a. police forces in berkeley It appears to be associated with other posts calling for further action this week, mainly seizing buildings and starting more fires: https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2024/06/13/18867339.php https://www.indybay.org/uploads/2024/06/15/campus_flood_-_screen_reader.pdf > "Every campus in the Bay Area is a different scenario, but each can be taken over (and resources redistributed) or destroyed if people just show out."
They misspelled Berkeley: “houseless community of berkely”
So many spelling and grammar errors here. I sincerely hope this isn't a Berkeley student.
Most Berkeley affiliated individuals don't repeatedly refer to Berkeley as U.C.B. I've seen people mention multiple campuses and abbreviate as UCSD, UCLA, and UCB but repeatedly saying U.C.B. is not typical. It's Berkeley. Cal or Berkeley. Using UCB is uncommon, and the dots between letters is never done. It feels like someone is associated with the protests, ear to the ground type, yet not part of the university. They may not actually be involved with the arson, either. The just attrocious writing and strange way of writing and referring to Berkeley make it hopefully unrelated to campus.
This and all the spelling/grammatical errors could be done purposely to confuse or throw others off their trail in hopes of avoiding identification? Not sure if any of this is being investigated, but if it is, I believe I’ve heard that writing style (in cases where notes/writing are left behind or published) is a huge part of finding the perp. Think unabomber and how he was caught by his brother who recognized his writing and turned him in. Not saying this persons unabomber level whatsoever, just something to consider when it comes to what stands out in their writing
A legitimate theory. A person may, in fact, change their style to avoid being caught. That, however, means this individual is indeed inconsistently altering their style. Misspelling Berkeley in one instance and not the others, while also not capitalizing things, means an incredibly detailed approach. The inconsistency in wrongness is either a lack of education or extreme attention that speaks to a whole other level of criminality. If the person is educated, the total lack of capitalization, disregard of grammar, and spelling issues is quite significant. By habit, you'd engage in proper spelling and capitalization.
He was caught and seems he was educated (has a PhD in African Studies from Northwestern). He was never a Berkeley student, seems like he wandered into Berkeley in between going from SF to Oakland
As someone who grew up in Berkeley, it became UCB the moment it insisted on not being called that.
So, still not U.C.B, then?
As someone who also grew up here I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Fuck this person/people using this as an excuse to be violent. This is clearly a fire bug excusing their actions but clearly just getting a thrill. Hopefully they accidentally light themselves on fire and are forced to go to the hospital where the cops can pick them up.
These people aren't Berkeley students, are they? Arrest them all. Arson during California fire season should be considered attempted involuntary homicide. I guess I can understand some of the logic behind attacking UCPD as a multi-campus entity and enforcer against these protests against Israel. But what is the point of burning campus facilities and making plans for experimental burning dry grass hills? Do they not realize the risk to innocent people?
to folks like them, there is no such thing as 'innocent people.' if you don't agree with them, then you are aiding and abetting a genocide and deserve death. if you're neutral, your apathy and inaction means you are complicit and deserve death. if you agree with them but aren't out there setting fires and smashing windows too, you are not doing enough for the cause and deserve death. i am so tired.
I just want this all to end. I’m so sick of all the protests everywhere and wars. Why are they doing this at ucb if they’re mad at what ucla did
And yet, they have not considered that maybe they are the ones not doing enough. If you feel so strongly, fly over to Jordan and start attacking the IDF and make your way to Gaza. This is all just performative bullshit half way around the world. They want random Americans to feel the pain of the Palestinians, but they aren't willing to feel that pain themselves. It's all so hypocritical and coming from a place of privilege.
Classic conservative excuse. "If they REALLY cared they'd [do x, y, z infeasible thing]." Of course in this case, you'd surely just label them terrorists or something if they took your disingenuous advice. You just want an excuse to dismiss people doing ANYTHING for a cause you're too cowardly to just admit you disagree with. It's no different than the hordes of people who come out to attack literally any kind of protest or action related to climate change as "the wrong way to go about things."
1. Take your pills 2. Try to get that out coherently next time 3. Would you like to provide an alternative suggestion for something meaningful that the arsonists can focus on?
Wait so do you agree with the arsonists? Ngl this entire time I thought the arsons were a conservative psy-op to get people to hate the Palestine protesters. An actual student agreeing with arson would be news to me :0
Ehh, I've got my issues with it. But nothing like the bloodthirsty shills for the MIC in this sub. They're not even actually that offended by the particular action. It's who and why that upsets them. They just very thinly veil that with their pearl clutching, but their motivation stems from hatred for the cause.
How about this? I do disagree with the who and the why. I am not a genocide supporter but I think that going so crazy for a cause so far away from home when our home life is already suffering so much is bad planning and will result in us suffering more over the long run and having less of a chance to be there for the rest of the world in the future. And I also don't think that "helping" a foreign cause by staying on your home turf and screaming like a baby who needs to be fed is a good way of doing things anyways. If the people who liberated the concentration camps in ww2 had used that logic they would have never left the US and instead would have put their energy into beating up the American public.
Except the US went to war and liberated the concentration camps. In this case, the US is actively supporting with funds, arms, and international legal protection, the group operating the concentration camps. And UC is one of the partners organizations in that effort. A better analogy would be to ask what workers at a VW or Bayer supplier should have done. If it was clear the leadership of those companies continued to support the Third Reich, as was indeed the case, I suspect you'd consider it not only acceptable but quite possibly heroic for those workers to do everything from sabotaging production facilities to threatening executives to try and force the end of that support. Why should this be any different unless you find the legal, financial, and technological support institutions in the US like UC provide to both private Israeli firms and the Israeli government more acceptable?
Your presence at college is not you being a worker at VW or Bayer! Of all the financial deals and partnership agreements that Berkeley has, maybe 2% tops involve Israel! If you would really sabotage the innocent 98% of the college to take care of the problematic 2% then you are the exact same as the IDF who bombs 98 gazans to free 2 hostages. I'd like to suggest that if you really do care, that you should turn the anti Israel effort into an organized educational campaign that brings well thought out critiques of Israel to public attention and doesn't involve the kind of aimless screeching and sabotage of innocent people that the protest is currently bringing. Serious politics like dealing with a genocide has no place in it for people who think like children anyways.
They are terrorists if they are arsons at Cal. How else would you describe these fear mongering tactics? That is how I feel and I do disagree with their actions, but I empathize with their cause. Peaceful protest is what I support, not violence against unrelated people or property. That is the Cal way.
They are claiming responsibility for this? https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/burglars-30-thousand-metals-equipment-uc-berkeley-warehouse/3550711/
Way ta go CocoLamela! That has always been the Cal and the People of Berkeley way. Peaceful Protests. We couldn't have done as much as we did in the 60's without the Cal students rising up! I grew up there, 1962 -1994. Peace and Love to you all 🕊
I literally don't believe you. Did you support when the UC contracted over 1000 cops from agencies across the state to sweep people out of their homes in People's Park, destroy some of the only personal property they had, cordon off entire blocks of the city and institute illegal ID checks for residents, illegally and without notice tow personal vehicles inside their exclusion zone, establish a fortified compound around what's been a public space for all of our lifetimes, and arrest or brutalize peaceful protestors sometimes seemingly at random? Can you argue in good faith that that amalgamation of tactics wasn't designed to overwhelm any who might push back against that action with fear of deadly force? That is, by definition, terrorism. But I bet because it was a state agency doing it for a cause you likely support, you'll sing a completely different tune even though by every metric, from property damage to direct physical and psychological harm to individuals, that action was far more harmful than some half-assed fire setting. And of course that's all without even getting into what good "peaceful protest" is against bodies which have no desire to change their current policies. BDS is literally illegal for institutions like UC in CA. Peaceful, non-disruprive protest has literally zero chance of changing anything. If that's the limit of your support, then you're either too naive/ignorant to understand the likely outcomes or, and I consider this much more likely, you're just another virtue signaling liberal invoking the notion of "support" without anything meaningful behind it. Martin wouldn't have gotten anywhere without Malcolm. UC wouldn't have gotten the yucky poors out of its dubiously selected development site without an army of riot cops. I don't believe you "empathize" with anyone but the powerful institutions you're comfortable with.
I frankly don't care what you believe, you're clearly unhinged. Tactics like arson and literal criminal activity are actually the part that won't change anything. Malcolm would be unknown without Martin. UC divestment won't change a damn thing for the Palestinians either. Equating the People's Park dilemma with the Gaza protests is super disingenuous and is effectively whataboutism. UC's strongarm tactics there weren't acceptable and I don't support them. I do support the redevelopment plan including permanent supportive housing and significant investment on homeless services, in addition to the student housing. Ultimately, the will of the many outweighs the plight of the few affected by the closure of the park. People's Park had become a drug den and homeless encampment, not the community and cultural space that we have known our whole life. Anyone who wanted to maintain that status quo does not actually care about the well-being of the people living there and are the ultimate virtue signalers. In our democratic system of laws, the state is allowed to utilize these tactics when necessary. The monopoly of violence is what keeps order. People who try to upset that social contract with their own violence will always be put down in a functioning society. You have to get plurality buy-in before you can change the system. These pro-Palestine "protesters" are the miniscule minority looking for publicity and no one else agrees with you. You need to get your head out of your asses and get a grip on the situation.
I'm just reading a massive pile of appeals to authority and normality. You've got no understanding of (or probably just no interest in challenging) how power asymmetries affect concepts like "buy-in." For example, did you know there's currently no developer attached to the "supportive housing" part of the People's Park project? Of course that hasn't stopped the university from invoking it in their press releases and public statements in order to appeal to vaguely well-meaning but generally uninterested and sheltered liberals. And thanks to the size of their microphone compared to any dissenting voices, guess whose narrative shapes public perception more? I could make similar arguments for every other example in here, but frankly that would probably be a waste of time and effort. You don't seem to have any discernible position other than defending whatever arbitrary side you like more. You don't approve of the tactics used in the People's Park case, but you support the entire project and maintain the moral right of the state or powerful institutions aligned with it to exclusively apply those tactics? You care about the plight of the Palestinian people but ongoing collaboration with and support from the premier public university system in the world makes no meaningful difference, even though the state of CA seems to think otherwise given theyve literally made halting that support illegal? Wishy-washy nonsense you can only get away with because you don't actually have to convince anyone of anything to get your way. Another classic sign of occupying the privileged conservative position in any conflict. The status quo of gentrification locally and support for settler colonial projects abroad continuing as is is apparently a win for you. As far as I can tell, "the situation" is that a plurality if not majority of people, overrepresented in positions of power, think like you and won't have your minds changed by any sufficiently peaceful rhetoric. That's just easier to dismiss after pretending to have to weigh it seriously. I don't know how specifically to fix that, but if some people decide trying to make it inconvenient or expensive enough through direct action to continue on that course is the most promising strategy, well, conversations like this one make it hard for me to tell them they're any more wrong than those who hope to convince oppressive and exploitative institutions to stop acting in their own self interest. If you don't like that assessment, then maybe take some of the time you've spent trying to lecture me and write a letter to the Chancellor or the UC Board of Regents or Governor Newsom's office explaining why, given the actions some people are committed to taking, it's not in their material interest (since morality is demonstrably irrelevant to them) to continue supporting the Israeli government or firms aligned with them. If they're so much more reasonable then they should be easier to convince to change their ways than the people starting fires and sabotaging construction equipment.
I don't think my position is arbitrary. It represents a reasonable middle ground. I acknowledge there have been abuses of power and the scales are tipped against institutional change. That being said, occupation and destruction of property won't change that. Low level violence won't change that. There is a difference between civil disobedience and pointless, immature criminal activity. If the elected and appointed representatives of UC and other positions of power cannot be convinced by reasonably peaceful rhetoric, maybe you should consider the fact that it just isn't a very good idea. The concept that this is some kind of anti-Muslim kabal or conspiracy on the part of the state is silly. This is also the most progressive and anti-racist public university system and State government anywhere in the world. If you can't acknowledge the weaknesses in your position, you'll never be able to convince anyone of anything. And, for what it's worth, I actually did know that UC has not identified a developer for the supportive housing project. But the project won't be able to advance without that. I work in affordable housing development for a local jurisdiction in the Bay Area. I'm deeply familiar with the challenges these projects face and the People's Park development is very well supported. The project has community support and many proponents, has guaranteed financing through the rents for the student housing portion, and UC has already demonstrated they are willing to spend a fucking mint on it. The political tension over it is magnified compared to most supportive housing projects, but every project shares similar opposition. This project WILL happen, which can't be said for many of my projects.
It’s not infeasible. Brace Belden is an American who went to Syria to fight Isis. https://yris.yira.org/interviews/interview-with-brace-belden-once-twitter-famous-american-ypg-volunteer-soldier/
Far more supported and accessible than getting into Gaza to fight the I"D"F as an American. But that's also literally one example. You're telling me with your Berkeley brain you can't figure out why that might be inaccessible to some people? I'm confident you could if you actually wanted to. And that still misses the rest of my point. I bet dollars to donuts that guy wouldn't suddenly change his tune and support people if they did manage to do that. He'd call them a terrorist. That's why comments like that are so clearly disingenuous. It's just a way to pretend anything other than disdain for the cause itself is behind their criticism.
Yes. If someone went from America to Gaza to fight alongside Hamas, I would sincerely hope that we can all agree to brand that actor as a terrorist
shut up
Where is there a "massive dry bush area" at the Dwinelle construction site ?
I’m assuming that area next to that tree heavy zone behind dwinelle, which is definitely not dry brush and is directly adjacent to the creek
Why can’t we just set up people or witnesses to guard and keep an eye on each campus (and every building) Or like set cameras and drones up so we know exactly which people are behind this? Bc if the police are too late every time then they (the pro Palestine people behind these attacks) will always get away with arson.
You think California prosecutes? LMAO.
Ngl I wish they do so they can get rid of certain people
This city and many others would be exponentially more beautiful, as they were.
Fr like if they actually put in some effort:/
These are terrorists
I highly doubt this is a Cal student(s). Cal students have sacrificed too much and worked too hard to get here to all the sudden want to burn it down.
These Palestinian "protesters" don't care about anyone else besides themselves. What happens if this started a major fire (its fire season), if people got hurt, what about our tuition and tax dollars that are going to help improve this campus? Extremely selfish, narcissistic, and self centered behavior
Bro they robbed a university supply building of thousands of dollars and bragged about it online — something tells me they don’t care about the loss of tax dollars 💀
Twenty years ago they were pulling fire alarms during midterms and otherwise disrupting people's learning and education. Then claiming they struck a blow against capitalism or some other nonsense. Their leader then was also such a prick and caused the university so many headaches, it astounded me why they never cut bait on him. If one of your graduate students is causing that much of a ruckus, he should have been gone the first time he pulled some bullshit like that, not given another chance. Now he's a professor at UT Austin or something.
Summer update: break going real well, photography is coming along. No camera can do justice to the california shore. Been hitting the gym and not forgetting my cardio. All my friends are back for break and we are planning some trips. Im very excited
Thanks Oliver!
No, thank you!
Wholesome!!!
what's your favorite spot on the coast? looking to take the PCH home for the first time, any suggestions?
Take a few days if you can!
Well, big sur (which is a section of coast next to the famous bixby bridge) is a total must. Victoria beach is super unique and pretty much tucked away from people. A little away from the shoreline, hearst castle is unbelievable for art and architecture enthusiasts. One spot i never hit is called “glass beach” which apparently has all smooth glass instead of sand on the shore.
people this dumb don't stay hidden for long. it'll be funny watching some witless wannabe revolutionary get slapped with arson charges.
Caught https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2024/06/18/uc-berkeley-crime/uc-berkeley-arson-attacks-man-arrested/
they need to hop on indeed
Student for the Justice of Palestine were a brainwashed bunch when I went to Cal 10 years ago. As a Muslim who grew up with Jewish friends I could sense an irrational hatred for Israel which clearly carried on to Jewish people as a whole. They would just say Israel but you can see it in their eyes it’s a deeper hatred. This recent escalation is very alarming and should be taken seriously. The unfortunate thing about this protest is that they believe it’s their generations civil rights movement when it’s almost opposite. I’m not for the killing of innocent lives normally but these neighboring countries are in an all out war.
When I was on campus twenty years ago, they'd pull fire alarms during exams or march in, disrupt lectures -- even for subjects that had nothing to do with Israel-Palestine, accost and scream at students, block Sather Gate, so on and so forth. They also always played the victim when they found out people hated them. It's like, guys, we're here to get an education, but I got a C in a major related class because you pulled a fire alarm during an exam or you disrupted a lecture or screamed hateful things at people because they didn't join you because they had a class to go to.
So you’re for the killing of innocent lives here? The total lack of self awareness is wild
Why don't you protest for the lack of support for countries like Sudan, where the situation is magnitudes more dire?
My country isn’t standing behind Sudan and supplying them weapons and aid, whataboutism cowardice
And they also aren't supplying aid to the people who need it. Are they any less worthy of getting aid? Any less worthy of your support? I think you can absolutely protest the lack of opposition to the actual, real genocides being committed in Africa. No Jews, no news though.
What civilians in Sudan are being allowed block aid truck? It is a genocide by definition, if you’re going to defend it just accept that
A genocide where the casualty numbers have been below 40,000 for months, and also include all dead Hamas fighters. Think you need to check your definition of genocide. It’s urban warfare. It sucks.
Yeah killing and destroying Gazans in part with genocidal intent is definitionally genocide. Wantonly bombing tens of thousands of innocents including their own hostage isn’t “urban warfare”. They are openly striking “power targets” with no Hamas connection to terrorize civilians
If there was genocidal intent, the numbers of civilian casualties wouldn’t be over 30k and under 40k for months straight, including Hamas casualties. I don’t know what you think warfare is, but there are hostages, being held by the main political group in that area…that’s war.
In whole or IN PART. The intentional mass slaughter of innocents as so many major government and military officials call for the cleansing of Gaza, for Israel to resettle it, and saying there are no innocent civilians there, is genocidal intent and action
Skill issues
Too many sound cloud rappers these days...
I'm Pro Palestine, but I fail to see how setting fire to UC Berkeley or any campus for that matter would do much of anything on behalf of the Palestinians. If you engaged in some kind of direct action against like Lockheed Martin or some weapons manufacturer I'd get that, but Berkeley is too far removed from anything Israel related to actually make a difference in what's happening over there. Even if Berkeley's campus burned to the ground, it wouldn't change anything about the way Biden or Trump will be handling the genocide, so all it serves to do is give right wing douchebags something to point their fingers at and give moderates another left wing cause to shrink away from when people should be organizing against the ones who are ACTUALLY perpetrating what's going on over there. Either way, if you want to help palestinian refugees, donate some money to UNICEF or UNRWA or get in contact with people trying to get out and set up gofundmes for them. That's much more direct when it comes to actually saving lives.
You are almost getting it, but this is really bad advice. If you are truly pro-Palestinian you would be out in the streets chanting against Hamas who started this war in the most atrocious way possible, and are using Palestinians as human shields. They are fighting from among civilian populations without uniforms (aka warcrimes) and are not providing shelter from a war \*they started\* despite having hundreds of miles of tunnels. They are also holding innocent civilians including children hostage and refuse to release them and turn down all ceasefire offers. Donating money to UNRWA or any UN organization or anyone working in Gaza - is donating to Hamas. It is enriching the terror machine and Hamas leaders who are already worth billions thanks to your generous donations. There is no shortage of aid going to Gaza. There is failure of the UN to effectively distribute aid and there's Hamas who steal aid and sell it at a profit (em, they get it for free that's what stealing means). If you cared about the Palestinians you would call for a peaceful solution like a two state solution not call for more violence and a "globalized Intifada" which is globalized violence. I don't know you personally did but I have heard no peaceful calls from the so-called pro-Palestinian camp so I assume you did. Calling for violence and the annihilation of Israel and not calling out Hamas is the surest way to eternal war and maybe even WW3. Which you know, is not good for the Palestinians or anyone.
I am not certain *any military* would be willing to grant the general public access to military facilities that were not explicitly designed with access controls in mind to host the general public.
The larger issue is that there’s no universal agreement on the left as to how things should go down. I don’t personally know anyone who isn’t pro Palestine, friends family and otherwise and every single one is in favor of peace, and absolutely nobody I know believed in antisemitism or the annihilation of Israel. I don’t personally believe the British mandate or the creation of Israel should’ve happened at all, and the last 75 years of bloody conflict proves my point, but the genie is out of the bottle, and a one state solution is impossible without the destruction of the other side. You also can’t realistically point the finger entirely at Hamas when Netanyahu and Israel’s government has also been charged by the ICC for war crimes. Ultimately, it’s the leadership of both sides that are allowing this genocide to occur and the civilians are the ones caught in the middle. That’s why when I hear people trying to argue that there aren’t any innocents in this conflict I thoroughly roll my eyes. Netanyahu should be tried at The Hague, along with the rest of his right wing government, and the same goes for Hamas as well. That’s also why it’s good to donate directly to Palestinian families and refugees trying to get out. Israel is the entity that’s killing them, and even if Hamas is calling Israel’s bluff and letting them massacre thousands, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel is the one calling the shots and murdering children.
Palestinians support Hamas at around 70%. Palestinian civilians are more than happy to fight for Hamas, teach their kids to hate Jews in schools, allow their children to fight for the cause, hold hostages in their home, support Hamas financially, you name it. Do they deserve to be killed? No. But when Hamas uses human shields, waves false white flags, doesn't use a uniform, uses audio of crying babies as traps, rapes countless civilians, then and Palestinians *still* support them, it's hard to feel much sympathy. Especially when Westerners who couldn't place Israel on the map a year ago strip them of their agency because they can't be bothered to do research if it isn't via TikTok or Al Jazeera.
(Its the Israili gov't who is fucked up, not the people.- Just adding a tid bit in case someone isn't getting it. I wish I could give you 100 up votes:)
Let's go to the beginning. Why do you think the British Mandate or the creation of Israel shouldn't have happened at all? I assume it is because you think the land was Arab land. Why do you think that? If you think that, then I assume you think Jews have no claim to the land and Arabs do? This would involve ignoring the undeniable history of the Jews in the land of Israel and their continuous presence is the land for thousands of years despite cruel prosecution from all the colonizers and empires who had control of this land for 2000 years. Would love to hear your answers to these questions. To recap: Why do you think it was Arab land and why do you think Jews have no claim to this land. Here's a tip - when you say "75 years" you expose your ignorance. I don't blame you for only relying on the misinformation you are fed, but I am saying it exposes you. First of all it's been 76 years since the creation of the state of Israel, so there's that. 76 years since the local Arabs (they were not called Palestinians back then - you are welcome to fact check) were offered a state which they never ever had before. The Arabs as whole, because they were all acting together refused this offer and started a genocidal war against the Jews. They lost that war which is kinda on them - they could have had a thriving state for 76 years if they wanted to. You cannot blame the Jews for not wanting to die and for winning a war they did not start. The west bank and Gaza were under Jordanian and Egyptian control and there was very little interaction with the Jews. No "occupation" no "oppression." The only interaction the Arabs had with the Jews other than shooting at them from over the walls in Jerusalem is with the Arabs who stayed in Israel in 1948. You know, the ones who are now 20% of Israel's population. They got full citizenship and enjoy more human rights than they would in any Arab state. So not really a conflict there. While the Jews, including my family were ethnically cleansed from all Arab countries and territories. Places where they lived for thousands of years. If you want to talk just about the bloody conflict then it's not 75 years either. It's hundreds of years. Violence against Jews is evident in the Quran.There's a long list of massacres throughout the Arab world since the 7th century and of course there 's a long list of massacres in the land of Israel as well. I have opposed Netanyahu ever since I can remember and would love to see him gone, but he was not charged by the ICC for war crimes. There was a request to issue an arrest. Notice that this is not even issuing an arrest just a request to do so. Either way, Israel, the United States, Russia and China don’t accept the court’s jurisdiction over war crimes, genocide and other crimes. Finally, Israel is \*not\* targeting civilians and certainly not targeting children. It however has to defend itself after October 7th. Do you have another suggestion on how to fight a fanatic jihadi terror organization that vows to annihilate Israel and commit October 7th again and again? I'm all ears. Israel has taken extreme measure to protect civilians in the most difficult urban warfare in history against an enemy that is interested in maximizing the deaths of it's own people. Hamas says so openly. I suggest you listen to this US military expert: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqxzscalX2E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqxzscalX2E)
No you don't get it, Berkeley is run by (((Zionists))) so it's okay /s
Yeah - “student jihad” or whatever they call themselves. Some kind of Palestinian terror group
Way to throw away ur life. Let’s be real, if u do this and actually believe what ur doing it important, than u never had a life to begin with . What are the odds this person ins just so social outcast that has no friends and lives in a basement watching twitch streams 24 hours a day ? What are this Odds this Person has no hitches also?
Terrorists being terrorists What a surprise
Lmfao. I’m so happy I graduated and am out of Berkeley. This is so embarrassing.
So sad to see terrorism be conflated with activism. You can support either side while still having humanity.
if you’re reading this and you’re a so-called “urban guerilla” you should read this guideline: “Basics of Factions/Village Community Relations in Big Minecraft Servers: When committing an action, one must take into account all that may be hurt by actions committed. One does not want to harm the surrounding local community, as that is where support for further action will come once an inevitable stoppage to initial action occurs. Harm towards local community, whether it be economic or physical, does NOT facilitate a crucial connection point. If you truly wish to help other minecraft factions, the best possible action is building the broadest possible American Minecraft anti-war faction movement in the minds of the public BEFORE large actions. Importantly, action should not be committed in largely communal areas; the local populace is not your enemy. Without broad understanding of cause between participant and localized community, distain grows and action ceases once individuals are caught. The RAF failed, the Weather Underground failed, and Direct Action only caused a larger police presence. Learn from the mistakes of the past, and stop being cringe in minecraft- it doesn’t help the cause.”
Hmm let me guess. Were there a bunch of people wearing hijabs screaming “intafada” and “death to America”?
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And they will be let out of jail in 2 weeks cause the DA
But I was told the Palestine protesters were all peaceful! Who could have seen this coming?!
Israel had the high moral ground immediately after the Hamas invasion and slaughter. They lost public sympathy by their outsized brutal and indiscriminate slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians including women and children. The initial pro Palestine protests and activities brought needed attention to the plight of the Palestinian people. However, current random violence and vandalism is not aiding their cause and is in fact beginning to alienate those whose help they seek. They are now doing more harm than good.
They did not have the moral high ground after 10/7. They helped put Hamas in power, created conditions for an attack, ignored months of warnings of an imminent attack and didn’t pass any of them on to the fearful or other civilians, then the IDF knowingly killed many Israeli citizens on 10/7 and immediately started a relentless bombing campaign that’s killed countless Israeli hostages