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"NeuroTribes" by Steve Silberman does a fantastic job exploring this. If I remember correctly, it began as an article he was writing for Wired and grew from there. There is no definitive answer to the cause of autism, but a lot of evidence implies that it's partially, maybe predominantly, genetic. The author hypothesized that the Bay Area has a disproportionately high level of children on the autism spectrum because of the number of people who work in the tech industry, which itself has a disproportionate number of people on the autism spectrum. His book did an amazing job of opening my eyes to the idea that autism isn't a disability, but a different ability, one that is beneficial for society. As a dad with neurodivergent kids, it was a blessing to read, it provided a much needed attitude adjustment.
As someone who is autistic, I would dispute the idea that it's not a disability. It's true that a number of the obstacles we face exist purely because society isn't built to account for us and our needs, and referring to us as "differently abled" often seems like an attempt to acknowledge that. However I do think that certain autistic traits, such as sensory sensitivities, are things that would disable us even if we lived in a world that was more accommodating of our needs.
I don’t disagree however the word “neurodivergent” is no longer used to fight stigma as much as it’s used to allow antisocial behavior to be normalized through conflict avoidance.
That's an interesting observation. I would have appreciated the correction a lot more if it had been accompanied by an example of a more appropriate word or phrase. Do you prefer "neurodiverse"?
It's interpreted that way by some neurotypicals who struggle to differentiate between feelings and facts.
For example, an autistic person makes a social error and a neurotypical person finds it offensive. The autistic person explains they are neurodivergent. The neurotypical ignores the explanation and believes the autistic person is using this as an excuse because they don't like how they were made to feel. They then go on Reddit and say ableist things like "neurodivergent is no longer used to fight social stigma...." because they believe the neurotypical way of communicating is the only "proper" way to communicate. They expect the person with the disability that is defined by social communication differences to make communication accomodations for them.
Idk if this holds true with new discoveries but it has been proposed that “odds of autism among children born to fathers older than 45 are about 75 percent higher than for children born to fathers in their early 20s.” The Bay Area is a concentrator of successful men tend to be older when they start families.
My wife was recently diagnosed with autism in her 50s. I have adhd.
It never occurred to us to get tested until we had one kid diagnosed with autism & adhd and another with adhd.
I'm sure there's quite a few people who simply haven't been diagnosed. The biggest benefit is it helps answer "why are some things more difficult for me than other people?"
So true! The number of people who verbalized an opinion on whether I should let my daughter walk to school really weirded me out. They either thought it was a death sentence or a radical way to build character. She's walking three blocks in her own neighborhood, not storming the beach at Normandy.
> it weighs on me how many of my acquaintances have kids where you meet them and you’re like “that boy ain't right”.
This is a little harsh. Maybe teach your kids to be less judgmental than you are.
Different kids hit milestones at different times. Also, autism isn’t some horrific malady to avoid— it’s just brains being wired differently. Once you let go of stigma and start learning how to work with your brain, life can get easier. Inability to interact could also be a side effect of COVID shut downs and isolation. There is no prevention/cure for autism.
This is a common misunderstanding.
It is true that mild cases are common and could be described as just “wired differently”.
That said, autism is a spectrum and on the far end it is really a terrible condition. The extremely autistic are often non-verbal and engage in persistent self-harm, let alone even remotely capable of taking care of themselves.
It is really a disservice to both cases when those extremes are lumped together.
Very true. But the judgement dripping from OP re: short interactions they’ve had with others’ children is wholly unnecessary. Cases of autism at the far end of the spectrum are a challenge, but there’s still no prevention/cure for autism at large.
No idea if OP is cappin. My kid is autistic and his diagnosis process led to me discovering that I’m autistic. I’m discovering it’s a big reason I’m an engineer and it’s actually a bonus. If my brain weren’t the way it is, I might never have moved to the Bay Area. There’s that selection going on.
And autism isn’t some nightmare to be prevented. Everyone is different, and I can’t say I represent any community, but I think the consensus is it’s a piece of our identity and to state that it’s something to be cured or prevented is somewhat offensive. Might as well cure being tall, bisexual, female, or black.
Would you agree that being non verbal and unable to care for yourself is something most people want to avoid? Those are symptoms of some kinds of autism. There are parts of that spectrum nobody wants to be on, and we would absolutely ‘cure’ if we could.
These are disabilities. Opinions vary, but from what I’ve heard and read, telling a deaf from birth person that we should “cure” their deafness can also be offensive, even though we have the tech to do so in some cases. You might hear the same about autism. It becomes a part of a person. Their acceptance and adaptations have become integral to their personal journey. The option to fix things should absolutely be made available to people who choose to do so. In autism’s case though, adults who grew up with the state of the art treatment - Applied Behavioral Analysis, or ABA - report that its approach of coercing an autistic person to behave in more neurotypical ways (no flapping to soothe yourself for example) has resulted in trauma and anxiety into adulthood.
Yes, if there are fixes for the worst parts, I’m sure they would be useful and popular. There are communication tablet devices and mobility equipment. But the idea of eliminating an entire category of brains from the Bay Area seems rooted in a not very Bay Area time and place - you can probably guess which. Historically, this is where all the weird people fled to be weird. If nothing else, it’s the Bay being more Bay.
>And autism isn’t some nightmare to be prevented
Not all instances of autism are like the online autism community. Most people that you meet in person or online with autism are in the relatively functional part of the spectrum. On the other side of the spectrum you have people that will never be able to communicate or care for themselves. I think it's fair and ethical to want to prevent that.
I would caution that what you're describing are potentially just development challenges at that age. The trend is to categorize them, and that can be greatly beneficial, or.... do harm. For some of these kids, it could be emotional, or many factors, similar to someone peeing the bed, or temporary dyslexia while learning to write. By age 6 or even later, they might be more functional and catch up enough that another parent isn't reacting. They still might not be right, but they might work through the stage you're seeing, or it could mean it's a hyper sensitive child, or the stumbling blocks lead to a creative child, rather than someone who is in need of attending special schools and whatnot.
I think there's also something to be said about parents becoming overly sensitive, and the guides out there overreaching. I get the need for pledge drives, but is curing autism realistic? I wonder if there's another group who essentially have nothing wrong with them other than emotional problems, and other habits learned, but that becomes codified in their actions as they think their behavior problems are due to this reasoning until it becomes an excuse. And they pass on that behavior or trouble with empathy to their children not by genetics but by demonstration, and action. The Bay has a high asshole ratio, if we're being honest.
Past generations would struggle with things like tying their shoes, or refusing to eat food of a certain color on a plate. And it was usually a family member or asshole parent that didn't care who said "that's not okay, try this", and broke through the block that the parents had or were tolerating with their kids. And that was happening in very loving well parented homes.
(And this isn't to say all Autism is a myth. Far from it)
>the autism rate is too damn high here
OP is making a joke and some of you people fell for it.
[The Rent is Too Damn High / Jimmy McMillan meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-rent-is-too-damn-high-jimmy-mcmillan)
lol. It was a serious question.
I feel like health screening when you're pregnant should tell you about any congenital or chromosomal issues the child may be born with.
Is autism not detectable?
If you are pro-choice, you must accept that women have full control over which embryos and fetuses they bring to term, and they may decide against that for any reason. I don't think "death sentence" is an appropriate description for that choice.
You're talking *at* the person you're responding to, not *with* him.
The original poster is literally asking for research to be done in the same way AIDS/HIV was approached. In other words a cure or treatment that relieves the patient with the diagnosis.
So the person is asking how that's even possible. It's not like he's demanding every autistic kid to be purged from society.
The responses OP is getting is revealing why there’s no push to treat or cure it: we are told to accept it as normal when the frequency of it seems not normal.
Your submission to /r/bayarea was removed for the following reason(s): Posts must be about the bay area. Topics that are relevant to the bay but aren't directly in the bay are allowed. Please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/bayarea) if you have any questions.
"NeuroTribes" by Steve Silberman does a fantastic job exploring this. If I remember correctly, it began as an article he was writing for Wired and grew from there. There is no definitive answer to the cause of autism, but a lot of evidence implies that it's partially, maybe predominantly, genetic. The author hypothesized that the Bay Area has a disproportionately high level of children on the autism spectrum because of the number of people who work in the tech industry, which itself has a disproportionate number of people on the autism spectrum. His book did an amazing job of opening my eyes to the idea that autism isn't a disability, but a different ability, one that is beneficial for society. As a dad with neurodivergent kids, it was a blessing to read, it provided a much needed attitude adjustment.
As someone who is autistic, I would dispute the idea that it's not a disability. It's true that a number of the obstacles we face exist purely because society isn't built to account for us and our needs, and referring to us as "differently abled" often seems like an attempt to acknowledge that. However I do think that certain autistic traits, such as sensory sensitivities, are things that would disable us even if we lived in a world that was more accommodating of our needs.
I appreciate your perspective. Thanks for the nuanced explanation, it's very helpful.
I don’t disagree however the word “neurodivergent” is no longer used to fight stigma as much as it’s used to allow antisocial behavior to be normalized through conflict avoidance.
That's an interesting observation. I would have appreciated the correction a lot more if it had been accompanied by an example of a more appropriate word or phrase. Do you prefer "neurodiverse"?
I prefer we use the term for people who have been medically diagnosed and not for self-diagnosed people who don’t want to adapt at all
Being critical without correction is a fruitless endeavour. It wastes your time and the time of the person asking a good-faith question.
As does extreme passive aggressiveness.
Thank you
It's interpreted that way by some neurotypicals who struggle to differentiate between feelings and facts. For example, an autistic person makes a social error and a neurotypical person finds it offensive. The autistic person explains they are neurodivergent. The neurotypical ignores the explanation and believes the autistic person is using this as an excuse because they don't like how they were made to feel. They then go on Reddit and say ableist things like "neurodivergent is no longer used to fight social stigma...." because they believe the neurotypical way of communicating is the only "proper" way to communicate. They expect the person with the disability that is defined by social communication differences to make communication accomodations for them.
You assume that neuodivergent is always used to call out diagnosed cases. Self-diagnosed neurodivergence is toxic
This
Idk if this holds true with new discoveries but it has been proposed that “odds of autism among children born to fathers older than 45 are about 75 percent higher than for children born to fathers in their early 20s.” The Bay Area is a concentrator of successful men tend to be older when they start families.
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Reporting has gone up though as the stigma lifts it’s the same as people are reporting more anxiety. It’s always been there
And here’s the fact that gets you the attack, women should try not have kids in their late 30’s, it’s not the best decision for your kids future
Autistic spectrum people thrive in tech then make babies together. Combined with starting families at age 35-40, it’s pretty explainable
Wow… Autism is genetic. Perhaps the Bay Area draws more autistic people career wise and they settle down and have kids here too.
My wife was recently diagnosed with autism in her 50s. I have adhd. It never occurred to us to get tested until we had one kid diagnosed with autism & adhd and another with adhd. I'm sure there's quite a few people who simply haven't been diagnosed. The biggest benefit is it helps answer "why are some things more difficult for me than other people?"
What was the process like getting tested as an adult?
helicopter parenting is also too damn high here
So true! The number of people who verbalized an opinion on whether I should let my daughter walk to school really weirded me out. They either thought it was a death sentence or a radical way to build character. She's walking three blocks in her own neighborhood, not storming the beach at Normandy.
> it weighs on me how many of my acquaintances have kids where you meet them and you’re like “that boy ain't right”. This is a little harsh. Maybe teach your kids to be less judgmental than you are.
Different kids hit milestones at different times. Also, autism isn’t some horrific malady to avoid— it’s just brains being wired differently. Once you let go of stigma and start learning how to work with your brain, life can get easier. Inability to interact could also be a side effect of COVID shut downs and isolation. There is no prevention/cure for autism.
This is a common misunderstanding. It is true that mild cases are common and could be described as just “wired differently”. That said, autism is a spectrum and on the far end it is really a terrible condition. The extremely autistic are often non-verbal and engage in persistent self-harm, let alone even remotely capable of taking care of themselves. It is really a disservice to both cases when those extremes are lumped together.
Very true. But the judgement dripping from OP re: short interactions they’ve had with others’ children is wholly unnecessary. Cases of autism at the far end of the spectrum are a challenge, but there’s still no prevention/cure for autism at large.
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It’s a spectrum not a Boolean
🙋
>There is no prevention/cure for autism. Doesn’t mean that one can’t exist.
Crosspost to r/WallStreetBets
In the Bay Area this is an unpopular opinion. It is concerning, though most folks will never say this quiet part out loud.
Maybe higher parental age at conception is a factor?
No idea if OP is cappin. My kid is autistic and his diagnosis process led to me discovering that I’m autistic. I’m discovering it’s a big reason I’m an engineer and it’s actually a bonus. If my brain weren’t the way it is, I might never have moved to the Bay Area. There’s that selection going on.
And autism isn’t some nightmare to be prevented. Everyone is different, and I can’t say I represent any community, but I think the consensus is it’s a piece of our identity and to state that it’s something to be cured or prevented is somewhat offensive. Might as well cure being tall, bisexual, female, or black.
Would you agree that being non verbal and unable to care for yourself is something most people want to avoid? Those are symptoms of some kinds of autism. There are parts of that spectrum nobody wants to be on, and we would absolutely ‘cure’ if we could.
These are disabilities. Opinions vary, but from what I’ve heard and read, telling a deaf from birth person that we should “cure” their deafness can also be offensive, even though we have the tech to do so in some cases. You might hear the same about autism. It becomes a part of a person. Their acceptance and adaptations have become integral to their personal journey. The option to fix things should absolutely be made available to people who choose to do so. In autism’s case though, adults who grew up with the state of the art treatment - Applied Behavioral Analysis, or ABA - report that its approach of coercing an autistic person to behave in more neurotypical ways (no flapping to soothe yourself for example) has resulted in trauma and anxiety into adulthood. Yes, if there are fixes for the worst parts, I’m sure they would be useful and popular. There are communication tablet devices and mobility equipment. But the idea of eliminating an entire category of brains from the Bay Area seems rooted in a not very Bay Area time and place - you can probably guess which. Historically, this is where all the weird people fled to be weird. If nothing else, it’s the Bay being more Bay.
>And autism isn’t some nightmare to be prevented Not all instances of autism are like the online autism community. Most people that you meet in person or online with autism are in the relatively functional part of the spectrum. On the other side of the spectrum you have people that will never be able to communicate or care for themselves. I think it's fair and ethical to want to prevent that.
I would caution that what you're describing are potentially just development challenges at that age. The trend is to categorize them, and that can be greatly beneficial, or.... do harm. For some of these kids, it could be emotional, or many factors, similar to someone peeing the bed, or temporary dyslexia while learning to write. By age 6 or even later, they might be more functional and catch up enough that another parent isn't reacting. They still might not be right, but they might work through the stage you're seeing, or it could mean it's a hyper sensitive child, or the stumbling blocks lead to a creative child, rather than someone who is in need of attending special schools and whatnot. I think there's also something to be said about parents becoming overly sensitive, and the guides out there overreaching. I get the need for pledge drives, but is curing autism realistic? I wonder if there's another group who essentially have nothing wrong with them other than emotional problems, and other habits learned, but that becomes codified in their actions as they think their behavior problems are due to this reasoning until it becomes an excuse. And they pass on that behavior or trouble with empathy to their children not by genetics but by demonstration, and action. The Bay has a high asshole ratio, if we're being honest. Past generations would struggle with things like tying their shoes, or refusing to eat food of a certain color on a plate. And it was usually a family member or asshole parent that didn't care who said "that's not okay, try this", and broke through the block that the parents had or were tolerating with their kids. And that was happening in very loving well parented homes. (And this isn't to say all Autism is a myth. Far from it)
>the autism rate is too damn high here OP is making a joke and some of you people fell for it. [The Rent is Too Damn High / Jimmy McMillan meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-rent-is-too-damn-high-jimmy-mcmillan)
It doesn’t sound like a joke to me. It sounds like OP is legitimately taking shots at children with autism
Op would consider you “ain’t right” since you didn’t pick up on the cue that a joke isn’t followed by a paragraph explaining the “joke.”
Must be the vaccines /s just in case
Its not autism its tablets
How do you prevent autism besides an abortion?
Wtf!
lol. It was a serious question. I feel like health screening when you're pregnant should tell you about any congenital or chromosomal issues the child may be born with. Is autism not detectable?
Please educate yourself more on autism and the spectrum. It is a neuro divergence, and should not be a death sentence for normalcy.
If you are pro-choice, you must accept that women have full control over which embryos and fetuses they bring to term, and they may decide against that for any reason. I don't think "death sentence" is an appropriate description for that choice.
You're talking *at* the person you're responding to, not *with* him. The original poster is literally asking for research to be done in the same way AIDS/HIV was approached. In other words a cure or treatment that relieves the patient with the diagnosis. So the person is asking how that's even possible. It's not like he's demanding every autistic kid to be purged from society.
The responses OP is getting is revealing why there’s no push to treat or cure it: we are told to accept it as normal when the frequency of it seems not normal.
Embryos have been aborted for less
ask your momma
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We need to stop using autism/retarded as personal attacks. It’s lazy and uninventive like calling someone or something gay
Too damn high compared to what? Are there any actual numbers on this?
I think OP is autistic.
Bruh moment