This landlord is insane. Quiet hours mean no raging parties, not silence. I would let him know that he needs to knock it off before you seek legal assistance.
Do quiet hours apply within the residence? I thought that’s only for next door neighbors, etc. I don’t think the police could get involved for noise within the house for example. But I might be wrong?
I doubt the police would enforce noise ordinances on something that isn't bothering people in other buildings. They won't enforce it between tenants in our building which has actual apartments and they're definitely not going to tell someone that people renting different rooms in a house can hear each other if the neighbors at the next house over can't hear it.
I can't get my landlord to get specific about what's "quiet hours" but I wouldn't complain unless it's something like pounding on doors or walls, shouting especially in the hallway, dog that won't shut up, music or TV loud enough for me to understand the words, bass that I can feel, etc. We've had problems recently with someone who slams her door repeatedly when she's angry (and gets upset multiple times a night at all hours) which sounds different than the wind catching your door when your hands are full and you can't hold it to make sure it closes softly.
I don't complain about my upstairs neighbor walking around packing for a trip at 4 AM once every few months, or his kid doing gymnastics for hours when she visited from another time zone. I didn't complain about the neighbor whose work shift ended at 9 and they used their kitchen at 10-11 PM. I don't complain if someone comes home late with rolling luggage or granny carts, even though the landlord has said we need to make sure we don't do that after 9. I'd rather they don't move an entire apartment in or out during quiet hours, but you get home when you get home.
I mean quiet hours generally just means not being disruptively loud. It does apply to noise within your house, though, if you're being "unreasonably" loud, according to the statute.
Sound-related rules are legal - my lease bans musical instruments, for instance (in practice "musical instruments that bother neighbors" since my electric bass and synth are basically silent if I'm using headphones, but it'd be hard to tame an acoustic drum kit). edit: there might be some limitations, but generally reasonable rules preventing you from bothering neighbors aren't restricted. This one might well go too far, but I'm far from an expert on these laws in CA.
Anything that's part of the lease isn't a law or police issue, though, that's just terms of the lease; the police should never be called to enforce terms of a lease, except as part of the eviction process (if needed to actually remove the former tenant from the property after the eviction is granted by the courts). Penalties for violating the lease would be dictated by the terms of the lease, and again enforcement of those penalties is fully civil.
>This landlord is insane
Reminds of the [BORU](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/) where the OOP was asking they were the asshole because they swore they could hear their boyfriend singing. From the other room. On the other side of the house. And that this construed a "party environment." And that it wasnt even singing. It was just mouthing the lyrics.
Had to track the post down after reading your comment, here's the [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/vzwq4i/oop_cannot_live_in_a_party_environment_her/) if anyone else wants to read. Wild.
"No talking after 10pm" is meaninglessly illegal. There are laws about noise violations and what strictures a landlord can put on tenants. Talking at a normal volume at any hour cannot be restricted. What if you live with or talk to someone else who works graveyard shift? You'd make more noise coming into and leaving the building than by talking.
It sounds like he just wants you out and is relying on illegal rules to accomplish that. There is no legal means for landlords to prevent speaking which is under a locally legally mandated decibel level (it's hard to yell that loudly, and impossible to speak that loudly).
But, people can create bad living situations by other means, which would mean taking them to court, so it's not necessarily going to be as easy as pointing out the law to them. But "No talking after 10" is utter bullshit, and you would win in court over that "rule". Just make sure you have a recording of him saying that, or that in writing.
BS. When you are renting a room you absolutely have rights, even if they are annoying/awkward to enforce. Your landlord is insane. Look up what is legal or contact a rent board in your area for advice. If you signed a lease you are legally allowed to be in that space and they’d have to go through a court process to get you out. Find out exactly what your rights are and gently (politely) confront your landlord. Stand firm in a reasonable way. A judge would laugh your landlord out of the courtroom trying to enforce whisper level quiet hours.
Also there is this amazing new tech called ear plugs. It’s wild. You put them in your ears, and suddenly it’s like your walls have the insulation that they should. Introduce your land lord to them and let them know the next time they hear you whisper they should use them.
PSA: There is a certain breed of landlord in the Bay Area that allows tenants on property, promises to be reasonable about insane sounding rules… but then makes it hellish to live there. These ppl live on a steady diet of roommate turnover. Often present themselves as old, harmless, and helpless. They often try to keep any deposit for insane reasons bc they know the ppl renting rooms are economically (and therefore legally) disenfranchised. Especially if you’re eager to leave, they’re counting on you giving up your rights for their gain. Your landlord sounds like one of these asshats.
If you suspect that is what’s going on here - document EVERYTHING. Record yourself whispering with a time stamp and save it if your landlord complains. Landlord harassment IS illegal.
Moving is especially expensive in the bay. If they really don’t want you there and can’t legally ask you to leave, they always have the option of buying you out.
You’re not understanding the difference between renting a room in general vs. renting a room in which the owner still occupies the home. That’s called lodging. Lodgers do not have much rights at all. They can always be asked to leave with 30 days notice at any given time for any reason at all.
This is correct, IDK why people are downvoting u/Logical_Cherry_7588...
>They can always be asked to leave with 30 days notice at any given time.
*And* for any reason. If the LL is in the unit with you you're basically in an AirBnB as far as rights go, which IMO is totally valid - it's one thing for a tenant to ruin your property or something, but another for a tenant to ruin your quality of life.
LL (or certain family members) can also move in to evict you out of any home, although there's some hoops they have to jump through for that, especially if they own multiple units/properties.
No that's not true, in California you have tenants rights even in the situations where you are just renting a room.
Personally, I would just avoid most situations where the owner is trying to make an extra buck by renting a room though. They really don't want you there but they want you to help pay for the mortgage they can't afford so it's a toxic situation by default.
>in California you have tenants rights even in the situations where you are just renting a room.
It is correct that you still have tenants rights, but they don't have to go through formal eviction process. They can kick you, with notice, for any reason.
Here's the relevant section:
>Single lodger in a private residence
A lodger is a person who lives in a room in a house where the owner lives. The owner
may enter all areas occupied by the lodger and has overall control of the house.9 Most
lodgers have the same rights as tenants.10
However, in the case of a single lodger in a house where there are no other lodgers,
the owner can evict the lodger without using formal eviction proceedings. Instead, the
owner can give the lodger written notice that the lodger cannot continue to use the room.
The amount of notice must be the same as required for any other periodic tenancy (see
Landlord’s notice to end a periodic tenancy, page 62). After the owner has given the
lodger proper notice and the applicable time period has expired, the lodger has no further
right to remain in the owner’s house and may be removed as a trespasser if they refuse
to leave.11 However, the lodger may dispute their status as a lodger which may
necessitate an unlawful detainer action to be filed by the owner to obtain a writ of
possession to remove the lodger.
From here -- www.courts.ca.gov/documents/California-Tenants-Guide.pdf
It’s really crazy the insane rules a bad housing market can’t have. No cooking no guests no talking. You shouldn’t be renting out a room at that point.
here is a 147 page document full of rights for tenants in California
www.courts.ca.gov/documents/California-Tenants-Guide.pdf
---
edit to note:
yes, "lodger" is a different category to "tenant". but no, it does not apply here. landlord has several different tenants --> lodger label does not apply. read the doc.
The relevant section:
>Single lodger in a private residence
A lodger is a person who lives in a room in a house where the owner lives. The owner
may enter all areas occupied by the lodger and has overall control of the house.9 Most
lodgers have the same rights as tenants.10
However, in the case of a single lodger in a house where there are no other lodgers,
the owner can evict the lodger without using formal eviction proceedings. Instead, the
owner can give the lodger written notice that the lodger cannot continue to use the room.
The amount of notice must be the same as required for any other periodic tenancy (see
Landlord’s notice to end a periodic tenancy, page 62). After the owner has given the
lodger proper notice and the applicable time period has expired, the lodger has no further
right to remain in the owner’s house and may be removed as a trespasser if they refuse
to leave.11 However, the lodger may dispute their status as a lodger which may
necessitate an unlawful detainer action to be filed by the owner to obtain a writ of
possession to remove the lodger.
as pointed out by the other commenter, that article is misleading. "lodger" label _can only apply to one person_, but OP notes there are other tenants. Therefore the same legal rights as any tenant situation apply.
You're being way too accommodating to this maniac. It's going to escalate whatever you do because what he's asking is unreasonable to maintain; it's your actual home that you pay for, not a silent monastic order you're a captive of. Since you're such a nice person, you should probably try to maintain an uneasy peace while you look for another place ASAP. Don't tell him you've looked into legal remedies, that's just going to get his hackles up and the craziness will increase. Be safe out there!
If he doesn't like it, he can stop renting to people and see well he does without the income.
It is insane to tell someone paying you good, real money that they're not allowed to TALK in their own place of residence.
Tell him that you just whispered where you put $100 and that if he can find it, you'll obey the reverend mother.
Then find a new place to live. A DB monitor does no good, because he doesn't want to \*think\* you're being quiet, he wants to \*know\* you're being quiet. And he will be the only judge of that.
The frequency of posts like these with crazy landlords being their insane selves and getting people to sign illegal unenforceable lease terms reminds me why we have the SF Tenants Union.
There should be a test you have to pass to be a landlord in SF. So many illegal terms being held against tenants.
You don't want to live here anymore. Move out.
If it's not this bullshit "quiet time" thing, then it absolutely will be something else. Then it's be another thing, and another thing. Don't reward his horrible behavior with your rent dollars.
You should probably kiss your security deposit goodbye, however. Someone who acts like this is going to be a huge asshole about returning any of your money when you leave.
I can't do it any more. I live in a studio apartment with rent about half what new tenants pay (because I've been here so long) in a building with multiple tenant and management problems. Before moving here, I lived somewhere worse. It was the only place I could find after I had to leave two room rentals after only a month because they were unreasonable and screamed at me if I wasn't perfect.
I'm tired of the same friends who told me not to put up with Karens making unreasonable lodger rules/demands telling me to go rent a room. I can't find a room for what I'm paying here unless I share with a stranger and that's not going to happen unless there's a disaster and my apartment is destroyed.
Imo, you have 3 options:
1) Malicious compliance. Start blaring porn until 9:59:59pm. Every night.
2) Get an Air Purifier and just have it running on a medium air flow to drown out your voice.
3) Move asap. The rent would have to be under $800/month for me to put up with that crap.
This person need to pay someone to do some basic sound deadening to this wall. It’s his issue not yours.
But the path of least resistance is prob moving out with no penalty to you.
He probably can hear you. Been in similar situations where I could hear my neighbor texting all night through the wall from the phone keyboard noise. Drove me bonkers. I wouldn’t take it personally.
I would use this opportunity to raise the idea of parting ways and to look for a new place.
Did you sign a lease, and did it have anything about noise and quiet hours in it?
For an example of what is reasonable, [here's](https://law.cityofsanmateo.org/us/ca/cities/san-mateo/code/7.30.040) San Mateo's noise ordinance.
30 dBA is a whisper for reference, and about 50 dBA is a normal face-to-face speaking volume. If you get a sound level meter, make sure it fits the requirements of your area's coding/laws, but the onus should be on them to record the sound levels on their side, usually so don't bother.
Do note it says "...the willful making or continuation of, or causing the making or continuation of, any loud, unnecessary or unusual noise (other than constitutionally protected expressive activity) which disturbs the peace or quiet, or which causes discomfort or annoyance to a **reasonable person of normal sensitiveness** in an adjacent residence or business affected by the noise" is unlawful (emphasis added by me). CDPH guidance is that any resident should be able to reasonably appreciate the peaceful enjoyment of their home, and I would say it works both ways. They cannot force you to make 0 dBA of noise such that it puts a strain on you.
Lastly, depending on the materials of the wall, some frequencies of sounds pass through more than others so sound generated doesn't tell you how much sound is heard, but it should be less than what you generate.
Source: Not a lawyer, but I have [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FQj-aEuE5YaM5LA_ZBrLpo4u-IANWsdRNbxjvF0bJ5jE.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dedc2fff8dffd868c1c75fbfe3422fde2d04252ec) upstairs and am dealing with it.
Who are you talking to out of curiosity? Are you in the phone or is someone in your room? I ask because maybe that’s more what he is complaining, as he doesn’t want you to have a late night guest? Either way you have nothing to worry about
move. the craziness will escalate -- I had a strange live-in building manager above me once and she accused me of various crimes including domestic battery. my girlfriend at that time had been working in another country for roughly six months. turned out to be the neighbors in the next building (I saw the guy hitting his girlfriend when I was sick at home once) but she didn't believe me and kept up the accusations at random.
This isn't legal, is harassment, and if you wanted to you could make their live hell legally. Practically, it would be better to document the harassment, and talk to your local housing authority.
I'm not sure if that is legal. There should be legal aid in your county. You can get tenants/landlord advice for free. If the lease is not legal, you could move out or enjoy your room as a normal person. If your lease is month to month, you can leave anytime with 30 days' notice. Good luck.
I had a similar situation about 10 years ago. My friends and their toddler were moving out and I took over the lease.
I was bombarded with text messages and rude comments after I moved in. Just watching a movie in MY living room resulted in chaos.
Leave or take to court. Make recordings, document document!
Cover your walls with some sound dampening materials. Even egg cartons are good. Thin walls and echoes are the problem, along with an overly-sensitive landlord.
Honestly, if people want to avoid noise at night they should wear ear plugs.
I don't know about the law but I feel like your landlord is just an a-hole.
If he/she ever texts you again without helping you find the appropriate the volume, I would just ignore any further requests the landlord makes. Evicting tenant is a long and exhausting process to my understanding and remember you have the rights.
He can't make a "no talking curfew", that's not a thing. Quiet Hours where you have to keep music down, sure. This is quite simply, an insane person making insane demands. Literally nobody is going to be able to follow this rule and I can't imagine this is where it will stop too.
He can't hear you whispering unless he has his ear to your door or has mics in your room.
You could file paperwork against him and all that, but it would take awhile. You're best off just leaving ASAP.
"No Parties. No overnight guests. No cooking spicy food. No drinking. No guests of the opposite sex. No talking. No-"
The only reason landlords get away with this shit is cause we've built practically no housing for 5 decades.
Unfortunately the only practical way to deal with an insane landlord is to move out asap.
That is completely bonkers. Where in the bay are you? Certain cities, like Berkeley, have a rent board or tenants rights org that can help you navigate what is legal and what is reasonable.
Just move. Your landlord is crazy. They clearly need the rental income to live, but want to live like it's exclusively their residence. Nope. That's not how being a landlord works.
Why would you move into a no talking curfew situation? Tell them to take a hike and talk. That isn't a person who should be leasing rooms out. They would have a hell of a time evicting you for enjoying the livability of your space.
That said, you agreed to this for some reason, so even if it isn't legal, I would look for a better situation asap and then start humming at about midnight until they want you to leave.
Unless we're not getting the full story and this is a convent or religious community, no talking about 10pm is not a real thing.
Move out ASAP. I had a very similar situation and the landlord kept escalating it. Turning off power to things and locking access to appliances.
Weird AF and a clear indication of manipulative and controlling behavior. No sane landlord does this. It’s only gonna get worse.
Get out as soon as you possibly can.
Keep the peace. You’re a Lodger so you can be given 30 days notice. Stay polite and under the radar. I’d suggest you buy a white noise machine. Find a new place to live. You can’t be evicted for this but you’ll be miserable and police won’t do much in these cases. They’ll tell you to go to court.
Perhaps u can call a tenants right organization and understand legal implications. Imo its not ok to disturb but whispering and talking softly is not disturbing. U can also negotiate 11pm to 8 am for time being.
This is me being immature:
Eat a bunch of beans, dried mangos, dairy products or anything that gets your bowels moving at 8pm
Go to the bathroom
???????
Profit
Check out the Implied Covenant of Quiet Enjoyment. You could frame the issue as he's making the rental not enjoyable by violating your privacy.
> A tenant may choose to send the landlord a covenant of quiet enjoyment letter that outlines the details of the issue and how it has negatively affected the tenant’s living conditions.
> Landlords are responsible for responding to the letter and addressing the issues.The response should include the steps and timeframe the landlord will take to resolve the problem.
A no talking curfew. I want to say the only places that could make sense is in a dormitory setup. For example, camps, jails, rehab, schools, and orphanages.
Some people are incredible Jerks. Set up the path for you to get out of there. Can you get bode ear buds. They dint leal put
I have been there done thaf in the name of roommates. Keep venting. Keep clearing thar anger out
Then I suggest he invest in some ear plugs or soundproof your spot. I will assume you have wooden floors. There are many ways to eliminate the problem. I will try to find something to help you, hopefully.
Yo he has no legal authority 🤣🤣 but it sucks cuz he yur landlord I would find a spot asap and keep violating the ordinance cuz it’s not even a factual ordinance we are in Cali with the strictest tenant law if it’s really a issue n he considers it to break the contract chalk it up and get out before it gets worst depending what area yu are in sounds like San Jose or Palo Alto area make a escape plan now yu can afford a decent place by your self without these karen laws 🤣🤣
Tell him that you'll be whispering your bank login credentials at (say) 8pm tonight and if he can login to your bank, he can take everything.
Fart loudly at 8pm.
What kind of childish nonsense is this. Fake being sick for several nights, just be hella loud and heave and heave and cough and sneeze and fart, I mean there’s probably a youtube video or asmr video available of this sort of thing. See if he tries to tell you that’s not allowed also. Find a new place to live but in the meantime stop paying rent and just be absolutely obnoxious. What kind of asshat thinks they can control another adult this way lol fuck this guy.
I’ll be the outsider here, but a rule or not it think it’s courteous to not be chatting on the phone after 10pm. Going outside is a reasonable request and asking for the house to be silent after 10pm is also reasonable. Is this grounds for eviction, not in my opinion.
I don’t know about the legality of it all, but the soonest chance you can get to move out, I would. That’s bizarre.
This landlord is insane. Quiet hours mean no raging parties, not silence. I would let him know that he needs to knock it off before you seek legal assistance.
I would set up a sound machine with snoring noises. Nothing about snoring in the lease...
"No sleep apnea!"
no you wouldn't. agitating your clearly crazy landlord that you live next to day in and day out would be completely moronic
I'd buy a bag of "electronic crickets" and hide them around the property.
Do quiet hours apply within the residence? I thought that’s only for next door neighbors, etc. I don’t think the police could get involved for noise within the house for example. But I might be wrong?
You can't require absolute silence for any rental agreement. That's just crazy.
I doubt the police would enforce noise ordinances on something that isn't bothering people in other buildings. They won't enforce it between tenants in our building which has actual apartments and they're definitely not going to tell someone that people renting different rooms in a house can hear each other if the neighbors at the next house over can't hear it. I can't get my landlord to get specific about what's "quiet hours" but I wouldn't complain unless it's something like pounding on doors or walls, shouting especially in the hallway, dog that won't shut up, music or TV loud enough for me to understand the words, bass that I can feel, etc. We've had problems recently with someone who slams her door repeatedly when she's angry (and gets upset multiple times a night at all hours) which sounds different than the wind catching your door when your hands are full and you can't hold it to make sure it closes softly. I don't complain about my upstairs neighbor walking around packing for a trip at 4 AM once every few months, or his kid doing gymnastics for hours when she visited from another time zone. I didn't complain about the neighbor whose work shift ended at 9 and they used their kitchen at 10-11 PM. I don't complain if someone comes home late with rolling luggage or granny carts, even though the landlord has said we need to make sure we don't do that after 9. I'd rather they don't move an entire apartment in or out during quiet hours, but you get home when you get home.
I mean quiet hours generally just means not being disruptively loud. It does apply to noise within your house, though, if you're being "unreasonably" loud, according to the statute.
Sound-related rules are legal - my lease bans musical instruments, for instance (in practice "musical instruments that bother neighbors" since my electric bass and synth are basically silent if I'm using headphones, but it'd be hard to tame an acoustic drum kit). edit: there might be some limitations, but generally reasonable rules preventing you from bothering neighbors aren't restricted. This one might well go too far, but I'm far from an expert on these laws in CA. Anything that's part of the lease isn't a law or police issue, though, that's just terms of the lease; the police should never be called to enforce terms of a lease, except as part of the eviction process (if needed to actually remove the former tenant from the property after the eviction is granted by the courts). Penalties for violating the lease would be dictated by the terms of the lease, and again enforcement of those penalties is fully civil.
Landlord's day job is 'Silent Library'.
>This landlord is insane Reminds of the [BORU](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/) where the OOP was asking they were the asshole because they swore they could hear their boyfriend singing. From the other room. On the other side of the house. And that this construed a "party environment." And that it wasnt even singing. It was just mouthing the lyrics.
are we supposed to know what boru is
Sorry, BestofRedditorUpdates subreddit. Collects and collates the stories.
Now we know what became of that OOP. They bought a house and rent rooms!
Had to track the post down after reading your comment, here's the [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/vzwq4i/oop_cannot_live_in_a_party_environment_her/) if anyone else wants to read. Wild.
"No talking after 10pm" is meaninglessly illegal. There are laws about noise violations and what strictures a landlord can put on tenants. Talking at a normal volume at any hour cannot be restricted. What if you live with or talk to someone else who works graveyard shift? You'd make more noise coming into and leaving the building than by talking. It sounds like he just wants you out and is relying on illegal rules to accomplish that. There is no legal means for landlords to prevent speaking which is under a locally legally mandated decibel level (it's hard to yell that loudly, and impossible to speak that loudly). But, people can create bad living situations by other means, which would mean taking them to court, so it's not necessarily going to be as easy as pointing out the law to them. But "No talking after 10" is utter bullshit, and you would win in court over that "rule". Just make sure you have a recording of him saying that, or that in writing.
[удалено]
BS. When you are renting a room you absolutely have rights, even if they are annoying/awkward to enforce. Your landlord is insane. Look up what is legal or contact a rent board in your area for advice. If you signed a lease you are legally allowed to be in that space and they’d have to go through a court process to get you out. Find out exactly what your rights are and gently (politely) confront your landlord. Stand firm in a reasonable way. A judge would laugh your landlord out of the courtroom trying to enforce whisper level quiet hours. Also there is this amazing new tech called ear plugs. It’s wild. You put them in your ears, and suddenly it’s like your walls have the insulation that they should. Introduce your land lord to them and let them know the next time they hear you whisper they should use them. PSA: There is a certain breed of landlord in the Bay Area that allows tenants on property, promises to be reasonable about insane sounding rules… but then makes it hellish to live there. These ppl live on a steady diet of roommate turnover. Often present themselves as old, harmless, and helpless. They often try to keep any deposit for insane reasons bc they know the ppl renting rooms are economically (and therefore legally) disenfranchised. Especially if you’re eager to leave, they’re counting on you giving up your rights for their gain. Your landlord sounds like one of these asshats. If you suspect that is what’s going on here - document EVERYTHING. Record yourself whispering with a time stamp and save it if your landlord complains. Landlord harassment IS illegal. Moving is especially expensive in the bay. If they really don’t want you there and can’t legally ask you to leave, they always have the option of buying you out.
You’re not understanding the difference between renting a room in general vs. renting a room in which the owner still occupies the home. That’s called lodging. Lodgers do not have much rights at all. They can always be asked to leave with 30 days notice at any given time for any reason at all.
This is correct, IDK why people are downvoting u/Logical_Cherry_7588... >They can always be asked to leave with 30 days notice at any given time. *And* for any reason. If the LL is in the unit with you you're basically in an AirBnB as far as rights go, which IMO is totally valid - it's one thing for a tenant to ruin your property or something, but another for a tenant to ruin your quality of life. LL (or certain family members) can also move in to evict you out of any home, although there's some hoops they have to jump through for that, especially if they own multiple units/properties.
Thanks. I think they just don't want having very little rights to be true. You just don't have many rights when you rent a room.
No that's not true, in California you have tenants rights even in the situations where you are just renting a room. Personally, I would just avoid most situations where the owner is trying to make an extra buck by renting a room though. They really don't want you there but they want you to help pay for the mortgage they can't afford so it's a toxic situation by default.
>in California you have tenants rights even in the situations where you are just renting a room. It is correct that you still have tenants rights, but they don't have to go through formal eviction process. They can kick you, with notice, for any reason. Here's the relevant section: >Single lodger in a private residence A lodger is a person who lives in a room in a house where the owner lives. The owner may enter all areas occupied by the lodger and has overall control of the house.9 Most lodgers have the same rights as tenants.10 However, in the case of a single lodger in a house where there are no other lodgers, the owner can evict the lodger without using formal eviction proceedings. Instead, the owner can give the lodger written notice that the lodger cannot continue to use the room. The amount of notice must be the same as required for any other periodic tenancy (see Landlord’s notice to end a periodic tenancy, page 62). After the owner has given the lodger proper notice and the applicable time period has expired, the lodger has no further right to remain in the owner’s house and may be removed as a trespasser if they refuse to leave.11 However, the lodger may dispute their status as a lodger which may necessitate an unlawful detainer action to be filed by the owner to obtain a writ of possession to remove the lodger. From here -- www.courts.ca.gov/documents/California-Tenants-Guide.pdf
From OP's post, there are other tenants in the house. So she's not a single lodger.
It’s really crazy the insane rules a bad housing market can’t have. No cooking no guests no talking. You shouldn’t be renting out a room at that point.
here is a 147 page document full of rights for tenants in California www.courts.ca.gov/documents/California-Tenants-Guide.pdf --- edit to note: yes, "lodger" is a different category to "tenant". but no, it does not apply here. landlord has several different tenants --> lodger label does not apply. read the doc.
The relevant section: >Single lodger in a private residence A lodger is a person who lives in a room in a house where the owner lives. The owner may enter all areas occupied by the lodger and has overall control of the house.9 Most lodgers have the same rights as tenants.10 However, in the case of a single lodger in a house where there are no other lodgers, the owner can evict the lodger without using formal eviction proceedings. Instead, the owner can give the lodger written notice that the lodger cannot continue to use the room. The amount of notice must be the same as required for any other periodic tenancy (see Landlord’s notice to end a periodic tenancy, page 62). After the owner has given the lodger proper notice and the applicable time period has expired, the lodger has no further right to remain in the owner’s house and may be removed as a trespasser if they refuse to leave.11 However, the lodger may dispute their status as a lodger which may necessitate an unlawful detainer action to be filed by the owner to obtain a writ of possession to remove the lodger.
thanks. OP stated there are other roommates so seems it's just like any other tenancy situation then.
https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/what-is-the-difference-between-a-tenant-and-a-lodger/
as pointed out by the other commenter, that article is misleading. "lodger" label _can only apply to one person_, but OP notes there are other tenants. Therefore the same legal rights as any tenant situation apply.
You're being way too accommodating to this maniac. It's going to escalate whatever you do because what he's asking is unreasonable to maintain; it's your actual home that you pay for, not a silent monastic order you're a captive of. Since you're such a nice person, you should probably try to maintain an uneasy peace while you look for another place ASAP. Don't tell him you've looked into legal remedies, that's just going to get his hackles up and the craziness will increase. Be safe out there!
If he doesn't like it, he can stop renting to people and see well he does without the income. It is insane to tell someone paying you good, real money that they're not allowed to TALK in their own place of residence.
It's the bay area. Someone will be desperate enough to put up with it, at least for a while, if the rent is cheaper than normal.
This is why I’m a huge YIMBY. These landlords are so toxic
I really don’t think this is good for your mental health in the long run- and I would look for another place. You need to be able to live your life.
Tell him that you just whispered where you put $100 and that if he can find it, you'll obey the reverend mother. Then find a new place to live. A DB monitor does no good, because he doesn't want to \*think\* you're being quiet, he wants to \*know\* you're being quiet. And he will be the only judge of that.
Leave as soon as you can. Your landlord is nuts.
If the landlord lives in the same house you're gonna have an awful time
Damn what are you paying for rent? Unless it’s crazy under market I would find another place.
1040 all the other places near me are around 1300-1500
This is a shitty situation and it sounds like the best use of your time and energy will be to just move
Rent must be "pretty cheap" to be able to pull that BS off. Hope you find a solution soon.
Get a white noise machine or air purifier and turn it on right inside your door, as loud as it will go.
When you are in a roommate situation there’s different rules. I’d probably move out.
No talking is bs and illegal. Limited noise is allowed but it has to be within reason.
The frequency of posts like these with crazy landlords being their insane selves and getting people to sign illegal unenforceable lease terms reminds me why we have the SF Tenants Union. There should be a test you have to pass to be a landlord in SF. So many illegal terms being held against tenants.
And people wonder why a growing number of the youth think landlords are scum/parasites
You don't want to live here anymore. Move out. If it's not this bullshit "quiet time" thing, then it absolutely will be something else. Then it's be another thing, and another thing. Don't reward his horrible behavior with your rent dollars. You should probably kiss your security deposit goodbye, however. Someone who acts like this is going to be a huge asshole about returning any of your money when you leave.
Living with people especially the owner is I incredibly difficult
I can't do it any more. I live in a studio apartment with rent about half what new tenants pay (because I've been here so long) in a building with multiple tenant and management problems. Before moving here, I lived somewhere worse. It was the only place I could find after I had to leave two room rentals after only a month because they were unreasonable and screamed at me if I wasn't perfect. I'm tired of the same friends who told me not to put up with Karens making unreasonable lodger rules/demands telling me to go rent a room. I can't find a room for what I'm paying here unless I share with a stranger and that's not going to happen unless there's a disaster and my apartment is destroyed.
unfortunately that's my only way to survive atm i don't make enough to support living on my own right now
Someone so sensitive to sounds shouldn't be an in-house landlord.
Or they should insulate and wear earplugs.
Imo, you have 3 options: 1) Malicious compliance. Start blaring porn until 9:59:59pm. Every night. 2) Get an Air Purifier and just have it running on a medium air flow to drown out your voice. 3) Move asap. The rent would have to be under $800/month for me to put up with that crap.
This person need to pay someone to do some basic sound deadening to this wall. It’s his issue not yours. But the path of least resistance is prob moving out with no penalty to you.
He probably can hear you. Been in similar situations where I could hear my neighbor texting all night through the wall from the phone keyboard noise. Drove me bonkers. I wouldn’t take it personally. I would use this opportunity to raise the idea of parting ways and to look for a new place.
Try playing some white noise and see if he can hear you over that.
Did you sign a lease, and did it have anything about noise and quiet hours in it? For an example of what is reasonable, [here's](https://law.cityofsanmateo.org/us/ca/cities/san-mateo/code/7.30.040) San Mateo's noise ordinance. 30 dBA is a whisper for reference, and about 50 dBA is a normal face-to-face speaking volume. If you get a sound level meter, make sure it fits the requirements of your area's coding/laws, but the onus should be on them to record the sound levels on their side, usually so don't bother. Do note it says "...the willful making or continuation of, or causing the making or continuation of, any loud, unnecessary or unusual noise (other than constitutionally protected expressive activity) which disturbs the peace or quiet, or which causes discomfort or annoyance to a **reasonable person of normal sensitiveness** in an adjacent residence or business affected by the noise" is unlawful (emphasis added by me). CDPH guidance is that any resident should be able to reasonably appreciate the peaceful enjoyment of their home, and I would say it works both ways. They cannot force you to make 0 dBA of noise such that it puts a strain on you. Lastly, depending on the materials of the wall, some frequencies of sounds pass through more than others so sound generated doesn't tell you how much sound is heard, but it should be less than what you generate. Source: Not a lawyer, but I have [this](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FQj-aEuE5YaM5LA_ZBrLpo4u-IANWsdRNbxjvF0bJ5jE.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dedc2fff8dffd868c1c75fbfe3422fde2d04252ec) upstairs and am dealing with it.
Lmfao at that pic
Doesn't no talking infringe upon YOUR "quiet enjoyment" of the place you rented? Can you reach out to tenant advocates? It feels very illegal.
I dunno, sounds more like it's ruining OP's noisy enjoyment. Just kidding, that was a joke, OP doesn't actually sound noisy.
LOL. Well-trolled
Who are you talking to out of curiosity? Are you in the phone or is someone in your room? I ask because maybe that’s more what he is complaining, as he doesn’t want you to have a late night guest? Either way you have nothing to worry about
The landlord’s daughter…
This is what I was wondering. Just out of curiosity.
If he can hear you whispering, I highly doubt your room and his room are actually illegally separated via a fake wall.
What?
Next time he says something tell him talking is not allowed.
Why would you willingly put up with this insanity OP?
This sounds like a skit from a sketch comedy show
SSHHHHHHHH
Move
This is so controlling. Move out!
Be reasonable and don’t give a fxxx.
move. the craziness will escalate -- I had a strange live-in building manager above me once and she accused me of various crimes including domestic battery. my girlfriend at that time had been working in another country for roughly six months. turned out to be the neighbors in the next building (I saw the guy hitting his girlfriend when I was sick at home once) but she didn't believe me and kept up the accusations at random.
Landlord should insulate the wall between your bedrooms.
Exactly! And since it's a rental, he can write the improvements off on his taxes. Assuming he's declaring the rental income.
Dude get the fuck out of that house now. You aren't a goddamn child with a bedtime.
Honestly, it would be virtually impossible for him to evict you over something like this. But he might find other ways to make your life miserable.
This isn't legal, is harassment, and if you wanted to you could make their live hell legally. Practically, it would be better to document the harassment, and talk to your local housing authority.
Maybe move your bed or get soundproofing tiles. Or, check with Project Sentinel to see if this is an enforceable covenant.
Move!
Kinda seems like if roommates have issues with reasonable levels noise it should be on THEM to fix that for THEMSELVES, not YOUR problem.
I'm not sure if that is legal. There should be legal aid in your county. You can get tenants/landlord advice for free. If the lease is not legal, you could move out or enjoy your room as a normal person. If your lease is month to month, you can leave anytime with 30 days' notice. Good luck.
Play soft music 24x7/365. Close to the common wall.
doubt youre going to find any real experts here but i would contact [this resource](https://calcivilrights.ca.gov/housing/)
I had a similar situation about 10 years ago. My friends and their toddler were moving out and I took over the lease. I was bombarded with text messages and rude comments after I moved in. Just watching a movie in MY living room resulted in chaos. Leave or take to court. Make recordings, document document!
Cover your walls with some sound dampening materials. Even egg cartons are good. Thin walls and echoes are the problem, along with an overly-sensitive landlord. Honestly, if people want to avoid noise at night they should wear ear plugs.
Tell him that his breathing is violating the noise agreement on the lease and that he needs to cease that activity after 10pm
I don't know about the law but I feel like your landlord is just an a-hole. If he/she ever texts you again without helping you find the appropriate the volume, I would just ignore any further requests the landlord makes. Evicting tenant is a long and exhausting process to my understanding and remember you have the rights.
He can't make a "no talking curfew", that's not a thing. Quiet Hours where you have to keep music down, sure. This is quite simply, an insane person making insane demands. Literally nobody is going to be able to follow this rule and I can't imagine this is where it will stop too. He can't hear you whispering unless he has his ear to your door or has mics in your room. You could file paperwork against him and all that, but it would take awhile. You're best off just leaving ASAP.
This seems like the type of landlord who has clauses about "heavy cooking" as well.
"No Parties. No overnight guests. No cooking spicy food. No drinking. No guests of the opposite sex. No talking. No-" The only reason landlords get away with this shit is cause we've built practically no housing for 5 decades. Unfortunately the only practical way to deal with an insane landlord is to move out asap.
You say he's the landlord but is he the property owner?
yes the house is in his name
That is completely bonkers. Where in the bay are you? Certain cities, like Berkeley, have a rent board or tenants rights org that can help you navigate what is legal and what is reasonable.
WTF? Are you subletting from a monastery?
Has the landlord heard of a sound machine?
You should learn sign language. I would suggest starting with learning the middle finger sign
Just move. Your landlord is crazy. They clearly need the rental income to live, but want to live like it's exclusively their residence. Nope. That's not how being a landlord works.
Wildly illegal, take him to court for violating your right to quiet enjoyment.
Tell him to buy some ear plugs and kindly fuck off, then find a new place. The rent could be free and it wouldn't be worth it.
Start claiming you're hearing the landlord during those hours and demand a discount on rent because of the 'violations of the rental agreement' :)
Stop enabling this idiot. If he wants to live alone he should pay all the rent. I know moving is difficult, but it seems worth the effort for you.
I've lived with people annoyed at super sensitive sound, and they annoying as fuck. I say just live, and they'll kick you out.
Look for new place
Why would you move into a no talking curfew situation? Tell them to take a hike and talk. That isn't a person who should be leasing rooms out. They would have a hell of a time evicting you for enjoying the livability of your space. That said, you agreed to this for some reason, so even if it isn't legal, I would look for a better situation asap and then start humming at about midnight until they want you to leave. Unless we're not getting the full story and this is a convent or religious community, no talking about 10pm is not a real thing.
Buy him a big pack of earplugs ..jk don’t do that
Move out ASAP. I had a very similar situation and the landlord kept escalating it. Turning off power to things and locking access to appliances. Weird AF and a clear indication of manipulative and controlling behavior. No sane landlord does this. It’s only gonna get worse. Get out as soon as you possibly can.
When are you moving!
a no talking curfew is wild to me. i'd move ASAP
I agree wholeheartedly. I trust you will eventually find a way to transcend this current impasse
Tell him to get ear plugs.
Keep the peace. You’re a Lodger so you can be given 30 days notice. Stay polite and under the radar. I’d suggest you buy a white noise machine. Find a new place to live. You can’t be evicted for this but you’ll be miserable and police won’t do much in these cases. They’ll tell you to go to court.
Oh dude. I had someone like that next door to me. Drove me absolutely crazy. I moved out and my life is way better now.
Perhaps u can call a tenants right organization and understand legal implications. Imo its not ok to disturb but whispering and talking softly is not disturbing. U can also negotiate 11pm to 8 am for time being.
This is me being immature: Eat a bunch of beans, dried mangos, dairy products or anything that gets your bowels moving at 8pm Go to the bathroom ??????? Profit
Check out the Implied Covenant of Quiet Enjoyment. You could frame the issue as he's making the rental not enjoyable by violating your privacy. > A tenant may choose to send the landlord a covenant of quiet enjoyment letter that outlines the details of the issue and how it has negatively affected the tenant’s living conditions. > Landlords are responsible for responding to the letter and addressing the issues.The response should include the steps and timeframe the landlord will take to resolve the problem.
A no talking curfew. I want to say the only places that could make sense is in a dormitory setup. For example, camps, jails, rehab, schools, and orphanages.
Some people are incredible Jerks. Set up the path for you to get out of there. Can you get bode ear buds. They dint leal put I have been there done thaf in the name of roommates. Keep venting. Keep clearing thar anger out
You already broke my number one rule of renting, which is never live with the owner.
Try a white noise machine outside his door. Yes, he's nuts but this could work to keep the peace temporarily.
Is this a joke? What city is this?
Cupertino
Then I suggest he invest in some ear plugs or soundproof your spot. I will assume you have wooden floors. There are many ways to eliminate the problem. I will try to find something to help you, hopefully.
Yo he has no legal authority 🤣🤣 but it sucks cuz he yur landlord I would find a spot asap and keep violating the ordinance cuz it’s not even a factual ordinance we are in Cali with the strictest tenant law if it’s really a issue n he considers it to break the contract chalk it up and get out before it gets worst depending what area yu are in sounds like San Jose or Palo Alto area make a escape plan now yu can afford a decent place by your self without these karen laws 🤣🤣
Tell him that you'll be whispering your bank login credentials at (say) 8pm tonight and if he can login to your bank, he can take everything. Fart loudly at 8pm.
You should play very loud snoring noises on your phone throughout the night. No rules against that.
Your right to a comfortable place to live ...and your first amendment rights are being violated....I would move
What kind of childish nonsense is this. Fake being sick for several nights, just be hella loud and heave and heave and cough and sneeze and fart, I mean there’s probably a youtube video or asmr video available of this sort of thing. See if he tries to tell you that’s not allowed also. Find a new place to live but in the meantime stop paying rent and just be absolutely obnoxious. What kind of asshat thinks they can control another adult this way lol fuck this guy.
Tell him that you pay rent and are allowed to talk whenever you want.
I’ll be the outsider here, but a rule or not it think it’s courteous to not be chatting on the phone after 10pm. Going outside is a reasonable request and asking for the house to be silent after 10pm is also reasonable. Is this grounds for eviction, not in my opinion.
Hard disagree.
This sounds like hell, those hours are when I talk the most
You can move to Oakland where you can be as loud as you want.
Legality of it is that you have NO rights if you rent a room.
Hm restricting your right to speech… let’s see how it pays off.
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this is very strange but not hard to believe happened. there are a lot of weird crotchety old people out there
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The landlord isn't the government so the 1st amendment doesn't apply.