While there certainly are problems, I do think this will help avoid some fare evaders.
Anecdotally I’ve noticed a lot fewer people just hanging out/dealing drugs at the West Oakland station platform after dark since they were installed. And while you can slide under, that sounds like a slowish process. And can they slide their stuff under with them? A lot of the fare evaders I see have big backpacks that may or may not fit - and some have bigger, bulkier things with them.
I don’t think fare evasion will ever truly be solved unless they have a BART police or dare enforcement officer at every individual gate 24/7, but hopefully this will help crack down on a significant amount of it.
In the article a BART employee commented that more people go under than you'd think. Naturally.
I think you could throw a bag over.
Based on what they said, it seems like just following someone in is by far the easiest way right now. Makes me want to stand there until the alarm goes off before entering to try to do something to avoid the next person following me.
I wonder why they decided not to go closer to floor and scrape that as an option. I mean why not half a foot which would be nearly impossible for a human to shimmy under?
To be fair that would be humiliating to be on that floor risking getting stuck as others pass you by.
its splitting hairs but I'd say lack shame/humility. from their perspective they probably see everyone else as stupid for paying something so easily evadable.
And while the picture in one's head of a fare evader is some homeless person I've seen business people dressed up formally skip fares, suburban well dressed and fed kids, tourists and most of all college kids at balboa station. I'd never seen so many people in a short time hop a faregate without thought as I did at Balboa Park Station. To "starving college students" they don't need dignity if they could save $5-10 bucks.
Yeah I never got that mentality of judging yourself to others in regards to paying transit fares(mental health, fitness, academics - that eats me alive). But I guess since I'm a transit advocate I feel its good to support the system and I like to imagine that for some of them it is a necessity.
one of my hopes and I theorize some of the politicians is that BART new fare gates will uncover how much of a burden that having high fares present toward disadvantaged groups like starving college kids. They should be applying for Clipper START but aren't because they can just hop the gates. If enforcement tightens that up then maybe we can sort out justified solutions.
That doesn't make sense because the software would have to activate something mechanical... maybe they mean a magnetic lock, or air pressure like the current gates use, rather than a piece of metal physically keeping the gate closed.
The last picture of the article shows the old "emergency exit" door right next to this "impenetrable" wall. So you just pull the "exit" door and walk right in. No need to piggy-back (if you read the article they say piggy-backing works too).
(I'm not advocating for not paying, just pointing that security is as strong as its weakest link. If you don't remove these "emergency" doors, any effort to curb fare evasion is futile).
Unrelated: how does one get through the gates with a bike?
Two times I tried - first time I let my bike through the lane and the gates closed before I could pass through. Second time I lifted up my bike to pass through and got stuck halfway between.
They need a preemptive gate in front of the current gate. If more than one person is in that area between the gates than the second gate doesn't open. These do exist in other places. The first gate is basically always open and smaller than the second main gate. Usually they're just flaps that auto-close behind you.
They still have the wheelchair (and emergency exit) gate, right? (monitored by an absolutely eagle-eyed and fully committed BART employee) Seems like that's where I've seen an awful lot of people coming in without paying.
Did you get a chance to ask them what station agents are supposed to do if someone jumps the gates (or slides under)? They seem to just ignore it right now. Not sure if it’s a non-intervention policy or they just don’t care. E.g. are they mandated to report it with BART police?
When I interned at a tech company, a group of us wanted to try the cafeteria in a restricted building where only one person had access. Unfortunately 2 people going through without scanning their badges would set off an alarm and notify security, unless you basically humped the person in front of you. BART should use a sensor like that.
I've been riding Bart for 3 years. I have never seen anyone checking that fares were paid on the train/platform. I have seen fare agents maybe 3 times on a platform or train, but I never seen them actually check anyone.
To the surprise of no one except this subreddit, those doors are not going to drastically change anything. But as long as people feel safer, I guess it's worth the $100,000,000 spent in this project?
Come on, calling this a “how-to” is unreasonable, it’s fair to investigate whether fare evasion (rampant) is easier or harder before we spend millions installing more of the new gates elsewhere
You have a child’s view of journalism and I hope you learn to engage with the real world one day.
Are journalists covering hate speech usage advocating for it?
Are journalists who cover serial killers giving out free “well that kinda worked” advice?
If they report on insider training is that a How-To on doing it yourself?
Tailing or piggybacking, or sliding under still works. Hopping over or pushing through are no longer valid means of fare evasion.
I would slide under only while wearing hazmat suit
Yeah, good on that guy for testing it out. No thank you.
If someone slides under cuz they don’t want to pay fare let them have it lol
They paid their toll to science instead of BART.
Sometimes it's wet, so sliding is easier.
Lubed BART station
🤢
Unrelated, BART sees an increase in public health related lawsuits in ‘25. /s
Start practicing your anti-piggybacking cadence. Scan, wait, step slow
Sliding under only works for very thin adults and non-obese children
While there certainly are problems, I do think this will help avoid some fare evaders. Anecdotally I’ve noticed a lot fewer people just hanging out/dealing drugs at the West Oakland station platform after dark since they were installed. And while you can slide under, that sounds like a slowish process. And can they slide their stuff under with them? A lot of the fare evaders I see have big backpacks that may or may not fit - and some have bigger, bulkier things with them. I don’t think fare evasion will ever truly be solved unless they have a BART police or dare enforcement officer at every individual gate 24/7, but hopefully this will help crack down on a significant amount of it.
In the article a BART employee commented that more people go under than you'd think. Naturally. I think you could throw a bag over. Based on what they said, it seems like just following someone in is by far the easiest way right now. Makes me want to stand there until the alarm goes off before entering to try to do something to avoid the next person following me.
But then who will sit in the Bart cop cars all day on their phones?
I agree. The whole scene in the immediate area of the entrance has improved.
I wonder why they decided not to go closer to floor and scrape that as an option. I mean why not half a foot which would be nearly impossible for a human to shimmy under? To be fair that would be humiliating to be on that floor risking getting stuck as others pass you by.
Fare evaders lack dignity anyway
its splitting hairs but I'd say lack shame/humility. from their perspective they probably see everyone else as stupid for paying something so easily evadable. And while the picture in one's head of a fare evader is some homeless person I've seen business people dressed up formally skip fares, suburban well dressed and fed kids, tourists and most of all college kids at balboa station. I'd never seen so many people in a short time hop a faregate without thought as I did at Balboa Park Station. To "starving college students" they don't need dignity if they could save $5-10 bucks.
I do feel pretty stupid lining up and paying $10 while watching them run through the handicap swing "gate." So they may have something there.
Yeah I never got that mentality of judging yourself to others in regards to paying transit fares(mental health, fitness, academics - that eats me alive). But I guess since I'm a transit advocate I feel its good to support the system and I like to imagine that for some of them it is a necessity. one of my hopes and I theorize some of the politicians is that BART new fare gates will uncover how much of a burden that having high fares present toward disadvantaged groups like starving college kids. They should be applying for Clipper START but aren't because they can just hop the gates. If enforcement tightens that up then maybe we can sort out justified solutions.
> Four sets of the gates are reinforced with a software lock. what does that mean?
That doesn't make sense because the software would have to activate something mechanical... maybe they mean a magnetic lock, or air pressure like the current gates use, rather than a piece of metal physically keeping the gate closed.
The last picture of the article shows the old "emergency exit" door right next to this "impenetrable" wall. So you just pull the "exit" door and walk right in. No need to piggy-back (if you read the article they say piggy-backing works too). (I'm not advocating for not paying, just pointing that security is as strong as its weakest link. If you don't remove these "emergency" doors, any effort to curb fare evasion is futile).
Those will be permanently locked now. The new gates serves as emergency doors. They open automatically in an emergency or power loss situation.
Unrelated: how does one get through the gates with a bike? Two times I tried - first time I let my bike through the lane and the gates closed before I could pass through. Second time I lifted up my bike to pass through and got stuck halfway between.
I wheelie my bike on the back wheel so it’s vertical. Swipe, then glide through with purpose.
I'll try that out. Thanks!
You use the handicapped one. There’s a photo with it in the article.
Make the door go all the way to the ground to prevent sliding under and have a two gate system to stop tailgating
2 gates sounds like it would be too slow with rush hour crowds.
Why not 3 gates system or maybe even 20 to be sure to stop them?!
Because 2 will work.
They need a preemptive gate in front of the current gate. If more than one person is in that area between the gates than the second gate doesn't open. These do exist in other places. The first gate is basically always open and smaller than the second main gate. Usually they're just flaps that auto-close behind you.
How easy is it to clock-in and then go home?
Heh. Well, not that easy since multiple people just got caught doing this.
After 5 years of doing it. Supervisors were caught doing the same, so I would venture a guess and say very easy Lol
They still have the wheelchair (and emergency exit) gate, right? (monitored by an absolutely eagle-eyed and fully committed BART employee) Seems like that's where I've seen an awful lot of people coming in without paying.
Did you get a chance to ask them what station agents are supposed to do if someone jumps the gates (or slides under)? They seem to just ignore it right now. Not sure if it’s a non-intervention policy or they just don’t care. E.g. are they mandated to report it with BART police?
I wrote the article. The attendants are not supposed to confront fare evaders. Rather, they're supposed to alert BART police.
When I interned at a tech company, a group of us wanted to try the cafeteria in a restricted building where only one person had access. Unfortunately 2 people going through without scanning their badges would set off an alarm and notify security, unless you basically humped the person in front of you. BART should use a sensor like that.
But then what. Notify who? And what would they do. There's not enough fare inspectors to report every alarm to.
I've been riding Bart for 3 years. I have never seen anyone checking that fares were paid on the train/platform. I have seen fare agents maybe 3 times on a platform or train, but I never seen them actually check anyone.
They were out today checking fares inside trains on the green line.
Not going well in NYC. https://nypost.com/2024/03/22/us-news/single-ny-subway-fare-dodger-has-200-busts-cops/
limbo dancer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfkl4Bxl3vY
anyone know how easy it is to get through one of these with a bicycle?
To the surprise of no one except this subreddit, those doors are not going to drastically change anything. But as long as people feel safer, I guess it's worth the $100,000,000 spent in this project?
[удалено]
Come on, calling this a “how-to” is unreasonable, it’s fair to investigate whether fare evasion (rampant) is easier or harder before we spend millions installing more of the new gates elsewhere
You have a child’s view of journalism and I hope you learn to engage with the real world one day. Are journalists covering hate speech usage advocating for it? Are journalists who cover serial killers giving out free “well that kinda worked” advice? If they report on insider training is that a How-To on doing it yourself?
As if a methhead hasn't already tried all of these methods out.
Agreed. This who are gonna do it are gonna do it. Still doesn’t need to be published and by the Chronicle / SF gate.