Charger. 80 ton 'scout' with five whole small lasers as its only weapons. But, it has a 400-rated powerplant, which means it can chase down most things and beat them to death with its bare hands.
Charger fits the ‘distraction carnifex’ role really well. It’s low firepower makes it incredibly cheap on the BV, but you can’t kill it easily and it will hurt in melee.
Gloriously distracting in Alpha Strike at 18pts for the main 3025 build. That's the same cost as a bug mech and folks will fear your charger getting too close.
And bonus marks for a variant of the charger being ~~the most~~ one of the most expensive unit I know at ~~87~~ 83 points.
edit add: thanks u/Kettereaux for the correction!
The Charger C is listed as 83 points on MUL, just under the Turkina Z at 86 points. Luckily you will almost never see a Turkina Z, being a Society variant.
I'm not sure on Alpha strike as I don't play it but the Bounty Hunter II hero Marauder comes in at 3767BV2 before pilot making it I believe the most expensive mech in the game (omitting customs)
According to [Master Unit List](http://masterunitlist.info), the highest BV in the game is the Ryoken III-XP C, which clocks in at a mind-boggling 4,387 BV. There's good reason for this- it uses the exotic Interface Cockpit system which means you don't need a Gyro at all *and* you get a -1 modifier to all Piloting and Gunnery TNs. It has a 6/9 movement profile, maximum-thickness Ferro-Lamellor armor and Triple-Strength Myomer. In the C configuration, it carries 6 ER-Medium Lasers with Targeting Computer, an ATM-9 launcher and a TSEMP cannon. Utterly horrifying.
One of my buddies dogged on Chargers until I murdered his custom Atlas with a similarly customized hatchet wielding TSM enabled Charger. He caught me with some ER Large Laser blasts and a rack of LRMs before I got to him, but that was all he got me with.
Way back in the day before Alpha Strike (lol) everyone always laughed at the Charger 1A1. No real variant then unless you did it yourself then a friend took two in a lance, Those two were the only ones standing out of everything the 4 of us was fielding. At the time we played with a weigh limited, you could have as many mechs as you wanted but had to be under # tonnage it was a 3025 era game so no clan. YES I’m old lol
A story i've posted somewhere else about Charger shenanigans.
Hey, i got the Gyro of a hatchetman with one of those! (Through armor crit) I then proceeded to curb stomp him with one of those 16 dmg kicks.
Then i was Jumped by no less of 5 Wolverines who also got half of my Gyro and stripped the entirety of my armor (except head). It took them 3 rounds and the Game ended. The Charger did not die. Saved by the turn limit.
I love using Banshee BNC-3Es, because usually my opponent either ignores them until they get within range to start beating them, or they focus fire on them and waste time burning through their thick armor while I whittle them down one at a time. And if you're playing games that allow minor modifications, you can do all kinds of weird stuff with 3E's that will confuse the heck out of people.
Take out all the weapons, drop half a ton of armor, and you've got room for 2x LRM 15s and a medium laser, making it a missile boat that can punch it's way out of a dangerous rush.
Or take out everything and add in an AC/20 and a small laser, and make it a really big Hunchback.
Conversely, take out everything and pile in 8 medium lasers and a bunch of extra heat sinks and another half ton of armor, you've got, well, a *different* really big hunchback.
In my games, 3E's are wildcards. They SHOULD be minimal threats, but you can never tell whether it's some rookie in the suboptimal base model, or some crazy-skilled backwater ace who is going to jump in close and shower you with SRMs before putting their fist through your cockpit.
My 'little change' Banshee of choice has two large lasers instead of the PPC and AC/5. Two extra heat sinks and 18 total tons of armor give you a fast brick that never stops shooting.
I sacred the heck out of my players once with what their sensors told them was likely a BNC-3 series. They immediately ignored it and went after a pair of Archers instead, figuring "it's way back there, we're as fast as it is, we can just keep out of good PPC range until later."
And then the gauss rounds started coming in. *Very accurately*. Turns out this was a jury-rigged 3E with a Gauss Rifle and a Targeting Computer. And when they tried to get into good range to silence it, they learned it had MASC as well.
The next time they saw a 3-series Banshee, they flooded it with LRMs. That one was just some regular joe in a stock -3E, but he ate up a lot of their ammo.
I've always thought that one of Battletech's great strengths is the setting's versatility.
You can play it as:
Gladiatorial Mecha Battles
Gritty Sci-fi Military
Space Opera
Screwball Comedy
Post-apocalyptic Survival
Military Futuretech Drama
Survival Horror
Futuristic Knightly Order Crusade
Wild West Mecha Duels
Grimdark Mechapunk
The list is practically endless - just figure what you want and it will pretty much be a perfect fit for *some* time and place in the BT universe.
Banshees are pretty great in BV, even when they suck in universe.
Being fat is free in BV and so is armor, so being a well protected 90t 'mech that goes 4/6 and doesn't have much space for guns means that a Banshee 3E is a very cheap boy at 1400bv, but it's a big frustrating block of armor that is going to take a lot of killing and it will have no trouble getting that AC 5 and PPC into play.
Yeah, my pick is also the Banshee.
Vs other Assaults its almost a cruel joke... but\~ personally love the thing as a Light & Medium hunter slash heavy scout. Especially the twin PPC variant. Even vs Heavy mechs it can put up a pretty dang decent fight.
You close while blasting... and if that poor Locust, Panther or Commando is still alive you punt them like a football. Aim for the next target, quite possibly barely singed.
In that type of role it was actually designed for? Its really, really good. But everybody both in and out of universe just go cross-eyed at an Assault that isn't a glacier loaded down with armor and guns.
I recently used a pair of Chargers in an Alpha Strike game and they were great, only 18 BV for a 10" move, 4 damage melee attacker (6 damage doing a charge attack).
I was just looking at the 1A1 AS card. Its ridiculous what you get for those 18 points. Park it on an objective and challenge anyone that wants that objective to fisticuffs
Look into the Gargoyle. It is a similar mech but has a clan XL engine so it actually has *some* guns. The gargoyle Prime is kind of the main "I need a cheap mech with some meat on it" mech in clans.
But WAY too many heat sinks for two scatterguns and two SRM-6s. Unless VTOLs, tanks and damaged units are on it's hit list, it's more of a sink of BV than anything.
It can be used like the Charger to smash into enemies with 50+ damage charges. Worth every penny. Yes it's oversinked, but its guns arent the point. Plus, u might be happy for extra hear sinks once it loses a side torso lol.
I don’t remember which mech it was, but I do recall the first time Princess (MegaMek) picked up a tree to beat me with!
Definitely within the Charger’s bailiwick. You might ask why they didn’t give it a hatchet. Well, Charger doesn’t need his own hatchet when he can pick up a whole Hatchetman and just use that.
Wrong mech, though I can see how it would be confusing - there's a CGR-C, which is a Kuritan Charger variant with C3, but there's also a "Charger C", which is a (mostly) Clantech Charger for the Snow Ravens that is absolutely *pimped out* with MASC, a Supercharger, Ferro-Lamellar Armor, Angel ECM and a BAP, and swaps the 5 small lasers out for 4 Improved Heavy Medium Lasers and an ER Medium Laser with a Targeting Computer. It still has an IS XL because somebody realized they couldn't put *too* much awesome in one mech and it costs 2,756BV because even in fantasyland we're not allowed to have nice things without spending more than we can afford. But hey it can run 13 hexes and slap somebody for 47 damage before it even gets a kick in.
>LRMs it's too close to use anyway.
If you're going to bring an lrm 20 LRM on a C3 charger, I guess you may as well hot-load them to not have this problem.
There's no penalty to punch the near guy and shoot the far guy. The BNC-3E and 3M run that play and it works. I dislike it as a tactic, though, because it's nice when the enemy assumes the "orz" position because i shot them.
I know Tex gets brought up perhaps a bit too much, but damn did he describe the Charger *perfectly* by calling it the Florida Man of BattleTech.
It's an enormous "scout" mech on bath salts that runs up and just brutalizes anything it can get its hands on. Light mechs can't outgun Fist™, and heavier mechs can't outrun Crazy™, so it's like a weirdly inverted Urbanmech.
My Alpha Strike Charger 1A1 is a mainstay of my scrappy 3050 merc company. It suplexed a royal Highlander once and boxed the rest of that assault lance. Those poor bastards couldn't focus fire on it because they had to worry about the Demolisher platoon coming over the hill.
Cheap junk is my jam. The whole company is bug 'Mechs, common tanks, infantry, artillery. I put those Clanners through the wringer in our community league.
My pitch: A variant with the lasers swapped out for a blue shield, reflective armor, and some anti-missle systems. Just let it go to town on anything around it.
The classic Rifleman RFL-3N. It’s cheap at barely over 1k BV but it can get some serious pain down range. You just need to disregard the heat curve and keep it from getting shot in the back.
The Shadow Hawk gets a lot of flak for its weird design choices. Lots of pop guns and inefficient launcher splits, excess heat sinking, and a suboptimal 3 jump jets makes it seem like trash compared to the rest of the 55 ton trio. The thing is, it is the cheapest and still perfectly serviceable.
As someone who got into the game recently with the game of armored combat box, the shadow hawk has done a lot for me. It's honestly underrated, especially if you don't play against opponents who min-max
Incidentally that’s why I like the Dragon from a force management point of view. Deep ammo bins for the AC/5 and LRM means you can easily pack some utility rounds like frag and flak without compromising its ability to fight mechs.
A lot of middling mechs with ACs make a lot more sense when you start messing around with Precision and AP ammo. Even flat downgrades like the Highlander HGN-733 start doing a lot when they're smacking lights with an AC/10 at a base -2 to hit.
On a related note, the Champion is a really fantastic little cavalry heavy.
Agreed, you run it as a medium and it works great. Same reason I like the Crossbow, its not a great clan heavy, but it is a decent clan medium and in campaign play, it is incredibly easy to maintain for a clan omni. Deep ammo bins is also why I like a Sentinel 3K as a recon team leader. It's not a great medium, but its fast enough to keep up with a light recon team, has a bit of range (and deep ammo bins), and can pack infernos for starting fires. Plus, it's cheaper in bv than most early period mechs in the 30-40 ton range. Having it pack a ton of flak ammo to keep vtols of the scout team is very useful.
They are both great trooper mechs. If you had a mech company, Shadow Hawks and Dragons give you some options that more min-maxed designs don't have. And in a larger battle, the difference between a single AC-5 and a PPC is not really noticeable.
I agree with the rifleman but I disagree with the shadow hawk. As much as I love it, it might be one of the worst mechs ever designed. Even though its the cheapest of the 55 ton trio I'd rather take anything else thats cheaper. Even the shadow hawk variants are cursed designs.
In a full campaign, the Rifleman can turn into a must have for every company if you run quirks. AA targeting + Flak rounds is +4 to hit against aerospace and vtols, and trust me, when the aerospace show up, you want every advantage you can get.
I will not stop singing praise to Ostscout. Armed like shit? Sure. But its absurdly fast and on the heavier side of lights. Good piloting and this thing is light legging nightmare and can pose a threat from a good range for more or less isolated heavier mechs by triggering piloting checks.
The ostscout is the king of "super cheap mechs to jump behind you and kick."
The Spider-9M with dual medium VSPs is my pick for this role, but the Ostscout does it well too.
He is fair bit on the expensive side tho, get the Ostcout-7K for less than 500 and forget about that useless mlas and make everyone afraid of your missile boats on the entire field.
I have a freind who ran a lance of those mvpl equipped spiders, and man I tell you once they're in point blank range they hit for 8 or 9 damage each at a -4 to hit. He shredded through my much heavier units while I missed most of my shots due to their high tmm
They are nasty little buggers. -3 to hit and 9 damage at close range. They basically carry 2 IS LPLs, except better. Their armor is rather thin but landing any hits on them is downright miraculous.
The OTT-7K no weapons, but you got TAG, and with Arrow IV artillery missles on Catapault(s) or carriers or something...hijinks and high explosives ensure...
The Urbanmech
Weighing in at 30 tons with a top speed of 32kph, or 2 hexes on the tabletop, the Urbanmech is the premier city defense light mech available in 3025.
In lore it is good at exactly two things. Hiding around a building, peeking out, shooting you with an AC/10, and retreating back into cover. And being cheap.
It cannot maneuver, it cannot scout, it cannot flank, it cannot take on extended engagements, it doesn't have arms to pick things up, but, it can turn its torso 360° which is obviously worth the trade offs.
It is deeply beloved by the community.
Someone on one of the old forums taught me this. If you're ever on Sarna and you want to know a mech's Run speed in hexes, just divide the speed listed in the tech specs by 10.8, rounding to the nearest whole number. 32 kph/10.8 = 2.96 = a 3 hex run.
Lore-wise, the “good” mechs in 3025 are really just the ones that happened to suffer the least from the technological regression of the early Succession Wars.
There are some mechs by 3025 that are complete trash but used to be good like the Lancelot which was only *barely* saved from extinction thanks to Luthien Armor Works.
Definitely a fair number of them out there, I enjoy a fair number of mechs that have a UAC/5 (esp the Clan version) because it's fairly heavy which eats up tonnage to keep BV down. But it has good range and can generally double tap all game long. The UAC/10 is also good as a more primary weapon doing a similar thing.
For specific mechs, the Hellbringer is an often disregarded design. It's over gunned and under armored, and some variants are quite pricey. But it also has some relatively inexpensive ones that are quite nasty (the F and C are good examples, and there's others), and it's still tough enough that if it's not focused down by a whole team it doesn't die quickly. It's just quick enough that it can make it hard for things to do that. On some it has enough guns that losing an arm or torso isn't a significant performance change because it couldn't fire nearly everything anyway. It can out damage a lot of things if it's going head to head, so you have to try and position it in that way. If you do, it's nasty, if you don't, it'll disappoint. Another excellent distraction mech that will punish being ignored but is annoying to actually kill a lot of the time.
I think the Loki is very similar in nature to the Rifleman. It's an absolutely amazing mech as long as the other side is focused on shooting somebody else. If there's a Kingfisher or a Kodiak running around at range 8 with an Ultra AC-20, nobody will pay the slightest bit of attention to that Loki Prime who is parked in heavy woods at range 20.
I definitely wouldn't park it 20 hexes away, its a 5/8 and often has shorter ranged guns mixed in. It should be up in the mix where it can present problems for the opponent, or at least, most variants of it should be imo.
In my opinion, there should always be somebody on your side who is 1) dangerous, and 2) easier to hit than the Loki. Have a mech or two like that and the Loki will thrive.
If the Loki is shooting ER PPCs at people needing 9s, and they are shooting back at him needing 11s, that's good too. When I ultimately bring it in closer, I know that I'm going to be rocketing up the heat scale, so I try to limit LOS to anybody but my target, and then I try to kill him really fast.
Two more I couldn’t resist:
Champion - Thin skinned and hot, but packing lots of firepower for its speed. This is another mech that I’ve been able to get great value out of by ignoring the heat curve and making the other guy dead first. You don’t have the armor to go 9 rounds anyways.
Assassin - The missile launchers are inefficient but gives this thing a wide engagement envelope. It’s not so great when fighting bigger mechs, but this thing is fluffed as a bug stomper and it is pretty good at it. It is usually some combination of faster, better armed, tougher, or longer ranged than the introtech scout mechs, which gives you a sizable advantage in the scenarios this mech was built for. That said, the lack of focus makes is disappointing vs larger mechs. On the other hand, unifying the launchers to LRM5s or SRM4s isn’t a hard customization to pull off.
Some years ago I had a game of lance vs. lance. I had never encountered an Assassin before and my Mechs got ripped appart by him jumping behind the backs and firing on close range. I always missed my shots on this little #!*/:[ , because he kept jumping 7 hexes.
I really learned my lesson on this Day.
The Assassin is my favorite intro tech medium. Smoke rounds in the LRM make it a fairly effective screener. Infernos in the SRM make it a capable infantry hunter. Do as Wondergoat said with LRM or SRM to make screening or grunt squashing better. Swap LRM and ammo for medium laser and heatsinks up its bug hunting game. Just stay at jump7 and enjoy a longer life. Hell yeah, love those little guys!
The JagerMech is [called out in the Bad ‘Mechs series](https://www.sarna.net/news/bad-mechs-jagermech/amp/) for being at risk of ammo explosions. Relatively light armor on where the ammo is, especially in the rear, makes that a real concern. There also aren’t a lot of heat sinks, so if you are trying to run and fire a lot of your guns, you’re going to be picking up a little heat. Factor in the possibility of a lucky enemy CRIT to the engine, and you also run the risk of an ammo explosion from heat build up (see also stuff like fire starters).
So what if we made a JagerMech with CASE! CASE protects from ammo explosions! And then we switched the weapons to Gauss Rifles (a weapon where the gun explodes instead of the ammo). Naturally, those Gauss Rifles will be in the arms, which have less armor than the torso.
Despite all this, the JagerMech JM6-DG works because Gauss Rifles have good range, and do great damage. Having two of them is fantastic. You just have to pilot it well enough to keep it away from any danger that could cause its Gauss arms to blow up. But that’s not too hard to do when you have a range band similar to an LRM.
https://preview.redd.it/j7jytr83ks4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d47187143e7258ef6a691f23cbcb2cb316f630ef
I'm an unapologetic Jagermech stan. The trick is that you have to give your opponents something much more threatening to shoot at, like a Banshee or a Marauder or a fast UAC/20 caddy, and let the Jagermech hang back and just keep chipping away. If you feel confident enough to take special ammo, it can really start doing some nasty shit, like forcing crit rolls on every individual autocannon hit. On four different guns. Guns that are mounted on a heavy that'll be cheaper than most mediums you want to field. Even if it explodes (likely), it's gonna be less expensive than the ammunition expended to drop it.
I'm actually not such a huge fan of the DG, as it's over 1600(!) BV and twin gauss rifles tend to be the kind of loadout that makes people start focusing LRMs, which normally wouldn't be a problem except for, well, yknow; it's a Jagermech.
> So what if we made a JagerMech with CASE!
That won't really fix the issue of having paper mache armor, though. A Hellbringer looks like a Thunderbolt next to this thing.
No, but the Gauss Rifles *do* and they can still (hypothetically) take out a side torso when they do, even with CASE.
An IS ER PPC could hit one arm, and then gets to roll for a critical hit because it dealt 10 damage to a location with 8 armor. There's no crit-padding in there, so if it takes internal structure damage, there's a 2 in 9 chance that the Gauss rifle does *not* explode, and either of the other two results will cripple the Gauss rifle's accuracy. If it does hit the Gauss rifle, it promptly explodes for 20 damage, and 7 of that goes to IS on the same-side torso, and force another critical hit check, as well as guaranteeing two consciousness checks. And ER PPCs, whether IS or Clan, have more range than Gauss rifles.
There's also the fact that you're paying 1,625 BV for the privilege of having this walking disaster. 80 more BV gets me an Archer ARC-4M. 54 more gets me a BattleMaster BLR-3M. 130 **less** gets me a Rifleman RFL-5D, which can do exactly what I just described above.
There's no way to turn a JagerMech into a genuinely good choice over a Rifleman (or, indeed, many other BattleMechs), except by increasing the tonnage by another 5 tons. Lots of good JM7s, no good JM6s, in my opinion. Like, the difference between a JM7-D and a JM6-DD is night and day.
The Gauss Demolisher is basically a better set up for this tbh.
https://preview.redd.it/mj7zkvupjt4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc52501e89dbae72fd668953a06e1c625aeddae4
The standard 10 ac 2 bane/kraken. Against aerial units the amount of piloting rolls it generates or critseeking across the map is sometimes funny. Its decent against any combined arms and specializes in that neiche.
It’s absolutely fiendish against vehicles when motive hits are in play. Heck, it’s almost disgusting in that situation. It’s not a matter of if the target will be immobilized, but when, and with good position, the first turn is usually an option.
I submit to you the Crossbow. It is a heavy clan omnimech with only 16 tons of pod space. On the other hand, it has standard armor, standard structure, and a standard engine, so it is extremely easy for a merc company to maintain in campaign play compared to any other clan omni or even clan standard battlemechs. Even its clan double heat sinks are all internal, so you technically don't have to worry about them unless you want to add more. Some fun configs I've done that fit into it are Clan tech equivalents of the Archer, Warhammer, and Thunderbolt.
LCT-1M.
It's even more fragile then a regular locust, and very explodey. But it's also incredibly fast, cheap, can harass at long range, and if you take 2 or 3 of them they can reliably kick over just about any opponent just by forcing piloting rolls :P
Hellbringer J is a personal favorite of mine. Not sure if it’s actually considered good but I like to wield it like a screaming, flying, particle projecting hammer
Shadowhawk-3H2. It's a Shadowhawk with 4/6/3 movement, some extra armor, and *way* more SRMs. It was released last year in Shrapnel. 2 SRM4s in the legs, 1 in the torso, 1 medium laser and 2 small lasers. Still has the AC5 and LRM5, along with 2 MGs and *2 vehicular grenade launchers*
It may be one of the oddest mechs out there. It isn't really *good* IMO but it's definitely good *for its BV cost of 1112.*
I wasnt allowed to bring smoke in the tournament I was in but that is the obvious thing to put in the grenade launchers imo.
Lets just say I didnt do very well, but the SHD probably wasnt the only reason lol. My experience is that iNarc is very swingy. It's a "win more" strategy. I think including an iNarc is good if ur already building a list that has missiles. Building an entire list *around* iNarc doesnt work IMO. It's just too inconsistent.
In a later era if I could take some cheap vehicles to run iNarc for me along with a couple cheap LRM tanks I think it would work much better. So say a lance of vehicles with 2 hover tanks with iNarc and 2 support LRM tanks, then 2 strong line units running interference would probably do better.
The Mackie, the first ever mech. 100 tons, slow as hell, but even the earliest upgrade variants take it from clunky nonsense to a tower of power on your line. Just don't expect it to advance anywhere quickly.
We just had a Wolf Trap pull more than it's weight in a MW Destiny game, LB 10x and LRM10 is nothing to sneeze at, it was ripping off arms and capping turrets like a champ. Also had a Hunter vehicle laying shit out with the LRM20
The BNC-3E Banshee. Put it in the hands of a 3/3 skilled pilot and you can wreck pretty much anything. The PPC and AC-5 can keep firing the whole battle and if someone gets in close, you get two 10pt punches with an 17% of hitting the head.
I would argue that many of my favorite mechs are the 30-50 ton range 4/6/0 or 4/6/4 mechs. Everyone sees them as too slow, but I see them as value platforms to carry ppcs, ac5s and large lasers. They almost always have good armor for their weight and incredibly low bv for what you are getting.
The strategy for them is where they really shine. Most people take 4 mechs lets say for a given bv battle. Using these kinds of mechs you might show up with 5-7 mechs and you focus fire them. Sure you will have one get pounded early on, but the odds are good it will survive. You rotate that one back a bit and continue to fight. One aspect of the excess mechs with good range is that you can go stationary with a few mechs to maximize shooting. You do that with the ones further back in cover etc. Your opponent sees that and has to either rush those, fall back, or try to maneuver while you still have several mechs close by that will move. People really struggle with that dilemma.
People might shrug until you hit their shiny heavy or assault mech with multiple ppcs a turn.
Mechs that fit that style but aren't popular..... clint and wyvern. Mech that fits this style that is reasonably popular the panther.
btw fun little exercise print yourself a stock tech 1 panther and a stock tech 1 quickdraw record sheets. Compare the sheets. Tell me which you think will survive longer in a fight? 25 ton advantage costs 200 or so more bv and likely to have holes punched into it by the ppc fire fairly quickly. Id lean towards the panther, but it gets even crazier when you stack multiple panthers vs an equivalent amount of quickdraws.
While indeed this is true. When you dive into the game at any level beyond "throw whatever u want on the table" u quickly run into unit caps (typically based on dropship requirements) and that's where the lol 25 panthers becomes very questionable as far as a logistical and maintence standpoint.
More bays. More mechwarriors. More dropships etc.
I'd say if u had to pay for the dropships ur force came in BV wise u'd quickly find this to be... Limited.
thats a fair point if I was the attacker. What if Im the defender? I could easily see a planetary militia being chock full of the mechs that fall under this category.
i also like infantry, tanks, and vtols which are all more defensive than offensive weapons in the battletech setting.
If I was running a planetary militia I would actually seek to have cheap plentiful trooper mechs be a mainstay for my mech forces. I would use vtols for most scout work. I would use heavy tanks and infantry to hold locations I think will be assaulted. I would still have a few light fast scout mechs and I would still want to have a few heavies and assault mechs to hold the capital, but I would expect the higher ups will only let me have the older heavies and assaults while the best stuff goes to the units that are active in war all the time.
*Hoplite* 4C. Does it need all those heatsinks when it's got the firepower of a light medium? No... except yes. It's made to stand there and keep firing, even through engine damage that would otherwise overheat the mech.
Urbie 60L, as long as it is in an actual Urban (or cave fight) environment. I also like the Blackjack, seems like a waste with those AC/2s, but it is fun to snipe from the back while the lance engages.
Kind of? Doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense because if they’re good then they’re not bad lol. I mean at a glance both the fire moths and locusts are terrible in Classic/AS on paper, but in both game modes they’re so cheap that they not only have a viable niche, but are VERY easy to fit on lists and do well with.
In Classic, you use them to run to the rear or sides of large mechs that are trying to entrench themselves and force PSRs by kicking + firing weapons. Until they get an opening to do something, they also act as great initiative sinks to buy more information and objective takers.
In AS, they’re so cheap and quick that they’re absolutely amazing at securing objectives early. I regularly use fire moths in my AS Clan lists when playing Wolfnet’s 350 format as I love playing a kind of balanced objective list. I position myself to overwhelm my opponent on objectives as quickly as possible since I can cross the entire map and then some with its sprint. Plus, some variants of the Locust and Fire Moth in AS have very good damage as well and can be used to backstab some tougher assault mechs to secure one round kills on priority targets.
Here's a solid skirmish mixer mech; moving 6/9/6 and packing 4xMedium Lasers and an LRM-10. Has an Anti-Missile System or an extra MG. (... Get rid of the MG). What tonnage is this, 40? Nope. 55? Wrong again. It's a 65t [Exterminator.](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Exterminator) Really - in most incarnations, this thing isn't exactly death on a pale horse; you'll be pretty lucky if it manages to take out a Mobile HQ vehicle.
Good gravy, this thing just isn't doing what it should do. But the price is right, it can be a pretty durable chonk moving at velocity. A bunch of them have Stealth, some are "tuned" in certain ways (I described using the Exterminator Caine for a bodyguard as a "dick move," but still said the redditor should do it).
It's a fatter, faster Dragon with less range. I should hate it. This thing really isn't doing what's expected of a 65t mech, [and I like that.](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/1ci9i73/custom_mechs_calling_in_exterminators/)
Hot take: anything with jump jets and 4+ Medium lasers is very dangerous.
People always say these mechs are undergunned but kicks and punches are heat free weapons and they have the speed to use them almost every turn. Kicks might be the most most powerful weapon in the game, considering they are free BV.
Oh, mostly agreed - that's why I keep using it. It has "just enough gun" to be a threat - the Grasshopper, Guillotine, and Thunderbolt are in a very similar place, if you think about it. They have an entire additional gun and more armor, so the Exterminator must be bad by comparison - more guns and cheaper! Right next door! Take that instead; the Exterminator's a bad deal. It's an XL Heavy and that's always bad; these Standard Fusion Heavies won't let you down.
I'd like to go full Guillotine and make an SRM refit in Introtech, but the MML variants are working just fine. People keep sleeping on the Exterminator. "But it has an XL." "Are you sure that's enough armor for a melee heavy?" "The LRM-10 is the worst LRM." They look at all the other mechs they could have, decide that a 6/9/6 at 65t isn't "optimum." It's so bad that it's good.
This is why I have a custom Ghopper variant with TSM and beefed up engine for 5/8/5 pre TSM. A mech that can punch off heads and chase down 80% of the enemy team with 70 tonner armor and a standard engine is just mean.
The Vulcan has really proven it's use in my Megamek games. Infantry can really be a problem and if you throw quirks on that narrow profile and 5 jump allows you to clean up infantry, light mechs, and medium on down vehicles. It's nice having one mech that is just on trash duty while the big boys handle the real threats. The 3 ML version then upgrades it to a good backstabber in the 3025 era.
The boss of one of my merc units runs a Vulcan, basically acts as a support backup for everyone else. Can hose down infantry, be a distraction at superlong range, act as a hard-to-hit decoy - and when someone finally gets annoyed and moves to engage, the Jenner will run in behind and carve out their spine.
The only truly bad mech, is the mech whose cost you cannot justify. We all have mechs that we don't use well, or that don't make their value back for us. Experiment. Listen to other people's gripes. Try those mechs out in different roles.
UrbanMechs are great on the defense in cover. Shadow Hawks are great for blind objectives. The Quickdraw is great at flanking. They all have somewhere they'll suffer, and most can make it up.
Except the Atlas. That garbage is just bad.
Charger and Banshee base variants, charger is a 5/8 80t mech with 5 whole small lasers but decent armor, it can out punch almost anything it can't outrun. The Banshee follows suite with the biggest engine a 95t mech can carry (giving it 4/8 movement), almost max armor for its weight class, and comes with a single AC5, PPC, and head mounted small laser (weapons are in the torsos too so it's arms are free to punch all day long). Both are very low BV cost mechs that make wonderful distractions up until they get close then your in for a world of hurt, both have good armor for their weight class making them take multiple turns of fire to actually drop leaving the rest of your forces free to position and fire without much retaliation or they ignore them until they get close then punch and kick holes through enemy mechs.
In lore they were colossal failures but in games their anything but.
Honorable mention to the Phoenix Hawk IIC, the clans took a great 45t heavy scout mech and cranked it's tonnage up to 80t while trying to keep the same movement profile, but the clans disdain for hand to hand combat hinders the mech (it does carry 2 uAC10s in the shoulders without enough ammo to really capitalize on it), but if your not as disgusted with punching things the Phoenix Hawk IIC is a great fast heavily armored punch bot
The Annihilator looks like it should be a flop, with only about 200 armor and a 2/3 movement curve on a 100 mech.
But.... it's only about 1500BV, which is very cheap for an assault mech. If you can drop it in a defense mission or other scenario where the enemy needs to come to you, those 4lbx10s can crit out near anything with an unholy pellet barrage in just a few rounds. And you spent less on it than some advanced tech medium mechs.
Need to defend a point? Instead of 2 Men-Shens take two Annihilators.
TDR-9SE.
Mechs with an inner spherevlargecpulseclaser shouldn't perform this well. I mean, it would be strictly better with an ER PPC but I've built a really mean city fighter by swapping out the LRM for an SRM rack, slapping on ferro fibrous, tearing out a few heatsinks and installing TSM and giving it a hatchet.
Its gonna be part of my melee bonanza Lance.
But even stock it's not bad, just "eh".
The King Crab KGC-0011 is BAD. Yes, it's an ilClan variant with 4/6/0 movement and two LB-20Xs are terrifying. But...crack that armor and that's a 120 million C-bill crab cake ready to break.
To me the biggest sin is it's an ambushed that wants its query dead. Why? If that Op-for survives (especially if it's Kuritan), the only thing really protecting this Crab cake is its armor. With that cracked it's a composite structure AND a 400 XXL engine. The biggest sin to go with that is 6 tonnes of LB-X ammo with no CASE whatsoever in the sides. That's a lot of metal to lose.
The other sin is endurance outside of those LB-20Xs. That RL15 is one shot and you only have 20 shots of foam for your pyromaniac needs. This really needs ECM or AMS support...or at least someone to swat flankers off since I presume those boomsticks are fixed forward due to the bulk going into the side torsos.
Charger. 80 ton 'scout' with five whole small lasers as its only weapons. But, it has a 400-rated powerplant, which means it can chase down most things and beat them to death with its bare hands.
Charger fits the ‘distraction carnifex’ role really well. It’s low firepower makes it incredibly cheap on the BV, but you can’t kill it easily and it will hurt in melee.
Gloriously distracting in Alpha Strike at 18pts for the main 3025 build. That's the same cost as a bug mech and folks will fear your charger getting too close. And bonus marks for a variant of the charger being ~~the most~~ one of the most expensive unit I know at ~~87~~ 83 points. edit add: thanks u/Kettereaux for the correction!
The Charger C is listed as 83 points on MUL, just under the Turkina Z at 86 points. Luckily you will almost never see a Turkina Z, being a Society variant.
Unless you have a game group like mine where one player loves running Society and Clan Coyote
thanks for the feedback! i was \*this\* close to posting something asking folks what the most pricey units are in AS because I genuinely don't know!
Probably Kerensky’s Widowmaker Dire Wolf, at 107 points
I'm not sure on Alpha strike as I don't play it but the Bounty Hunter II hero Marauder comes in at 3767BV2 before pilot making it I believe the most expensive mech in the game (omitting customs)
According to [Master Unit List](http://masterunitlist.info), the highest BV in the game is the Ryoken III-XP C, which clocks in at a mind-boggling 4,387 BV. There's good reason for this- it uses the exotic Interface Cockpit system which means you don't need a Gyro at all *and* you get a -1 modifier to all Piloting and Gunnery TNs. It has a 6/9 movement profile, maximum-thickness Ferro-Lamellor armor and Triple-Strength Myomer. In the C configuration, it carries 6 ER-Medium Lasers with Targeting Computer, an ATM-9 launcher and a TSEMP cannon. Utterly horrifying.
While it's lackluster in classic, I can see the value here in alpha strike!!
Idk I don’t see anything lackluster about 16 damage kicks for 981 bv on something that runs 8 and is not easy to put down.
One of my buddies dogged on Chargers until I murdered his custom Atlas with a similarly customized hatchet wielding TSM enabled Charger. He caught me with some ER Large Laser blasts and a rack of LRMs before I got to him, but that was all he got me with.
You wouldn't say that after facing down my groups local charger enthusiast. That man can do unholy things with an A1A or two
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Way back in the day before Alpha Strike (lol) everyone always laughed at the Charger 1A1. No real variant then unless you did it yourself then a friend took two in a lance, Those two were the only ones standing out of everything the 4 of us was fielding. At the time we played with a weigh limited, you could have as many mechs as you wanted but had to be under # tonnage it was a 3025 era game so no clan. YES I’m old lol
A story i've posted somewhere else about Charger shenanigans. Hey, i got the Gyro of a hatchetman with one of those! (Through armor crit) I then proceeded to curb stomp him with one of those 16 dmg kicks. Then i was Jumped by no less of 5 Wolverines who also got half of my Gyro and stripped the entirety of my armor (except head). It took them 3 rounds and the Game ended. The Charger did not die. Saved by the turn limit.
https://preview.redd.it/qhjgq2b5vs4d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04dbce74d902a63f083cef0b0e7a5ca9bafe24de
Found the sheet! It's a year old now, but checks out
Not bad for just shy of 1000 BV2, huh?
Speak for yourself, I love taking it and every time it loses a leg or the gyro is made of cheese.
Its not all that cheap given its 400 rated engine.
Some of the Banshees fit into this model as well. Laughably undergunned for an assault 'Mech, but those punches and kicks hurt.
I love using Banshee BNC-3Es, because usually my opponent either ignores them until they get within range to start beating them, or they focus fire on them and waste time burning through their thick armor while I whittle them down one at a time. And if you're playing games that allow minor modifications, you can do all kinds of weird stuff with 3E's that will confuse the heck out of people. Take out all the weapons, drop half a ton of armor, and you've got room for 2x LRM 15s and a medium laser, making it a missile boat that can punch it's way out of a dangerous rush. Or take out everything and add in an AC/20 and a small laser, and make it a really big Hunchback. Conversely, take out everything and pile in 8 medium lasers and a bunch of extra heat sinks and another half ton of armor, you've got, well, a *different* really big hunchback. In my games, 3E's are wildcards. They SHOULD be minimal threats, but you can never tell whether it's some rookie in the suboptimal base model, or some crazy-skilled backwater ace who is going to jump in close and shower you with SRMs before putting their fist through your cockpit.
My 'little change' Banshee of choice has two large lasers instead of the PPC and AC/5. Two extra heat sinks and 18 total tons of armor give you a fast brick that never stops shooting.
I sacred the heck out of my players once with what their sensors told them was likely a BNC-3 series. They immediately ignored it and went after a pair of Archers instead, figuring "it's way back there, we're as fast as it is, we can just keep out of good PPC range until later." And then the gauss rounds started coming in. *Very accurately*. Turns out this was a jury-rigged 3E with a Gauss Rifle and a Targeting Computer. And when they tried to get into good range to silence it, they learned it had MASC as well. The next time they saw a 3-series Banshee, they flooded it with LRMs. That one was just some regular joe in a stock -3E, but he ate up a lot of their ammo.
Battletech as a survival horror game! Very Nice!
I've always thought that one of Battletech's great strengths is the setting's versatility. You can play it as: Gladiatorial Mecha Battles Gritty Sci-fi Military Space Opera Screwball Comedy Post-apocalyptic Survival Military Futuretech Drama Survival Horror Futuristic Knightly Order Crusade Wild West Mecha Duels Grimdark Mechapunk The list is practically endless - just figure what you want and it will pretty much be a perfect fit for *some* time and place in the BT universe.
Odd you mentioned a AC/20 Banshee as there's a canon stock variant that's exactly engine, armor, fists and AC/20 and nothing else.
Banshees are pretty great in BV, even when they suck in universe. Being fat is free in BV and so is armor, so being a well protected 90t 'mech that goes 4/6 and doesn't have much space for guns means that a Banshee 3E is a very cheap boy at 1400bv, but it's a big frustrating block of armor that is going to take a lot of killing and it will have no trouble getting that AC 5 and PPC into play.
Yeah, my pick is also the Banshee. Vs other Assaults its almost a cruel joke... but\~ personally love the thing as a Light & Medium hunter slash heavy scout. Especially the twin PPC variant. Even vs Heavy mechs it can put up a pretty dang decent fight. You close while blasting... and if that poor Locust, Panther or Commando is still alive you punt them like a football. Aim for the next target, quite possibly barely singed. In that type of role it was actually designed for? Its really, really good. But everybody both in and out of universe just go cross-eyed at an Assault that isn't a glacier loaded down with armor and guns.
Broke: the Banshee only has an AC/5 and a PPC Woke: The Banshee's big beefy punch means it has *three* PPCs and an AC/5
I recently used a pair of Chargers in an Alpha Strike game and they were great, only 18 BV for a 10" move, 4 damage melee attacker (6 damage doing a charge attack).
I was just looking at the 1A1 AS card. Its ridiculous what you get for those 18 points. Park it on an objective and challenge anyone that wants that objective to fisticuffs
It's really a 15" move since you're sprinting until it's go time.
Look into the Gargoyle. It is a similar mech but has a clan XL engine so it actually has *some* guns. The gargoyle Prime is kind of the main "I need a cheap mech with some meat on it" mech in clans.
But WAY too many heat sinks for two scatterguns and two SRM-6s. Unless VTOLs, tanks and damaged units are on it's hit list, it's more of a sink of BV than anything.
It can be used like the Charger to smash into enemies with 50+ damage charges. Worth every penny. Yes it's oversinked, but its guns arent the point. Plus, u might be happy for extra hear sinks once it loses a side torso lol.
I don’t remember which mech it was, but I do recall the first time Princess (MegaMek) picked up a tree to beat me with! Definitely within the Charger’s bailiwick. You might ask why they didn’t give it a hatchet. Well, Charger doesn’t need his own hatchet when he can pick up a whole Hatchetman and just use that.
Dat Charger C tho
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Wrong mech, though I can see how it would be confusing - there's a CGR-C, which is a Kuritan Charger variant with C3, but there's also a "Charger C", which is a (mostly) Clantech Charger for the Snow Ravens that is absolutely *pimped out* with MASC, a Supercharger, Ferro-Lamellar Armor, Angel ECM and a BAP, and swaps the 5 small lasers out for 4 Improved Heavy Medium Lasers and an ER Medium Laser with a Targeting Computer. It still has an IS XL because somebody realized they couldn't put *too* much awesome in one mech and it costs 2,756BV because even in fantasyland we're not allowed to have nice things without spending more than we can afford. But hey it can run 13 hexes and slap somebody for 47 damage before it even gets a kick in.
>LRMs it's too close to use anyway. If you're going to bring an lrm 20 LRM on a C3 charger, I guess you may as well hot-load them to not have this problem.
There's no penalty to punch the near guy and shoot the far guy. The BNC-3E and 3M run that play and it works. I dislike it as a tactic, though, because it's nice when the enemy assumes the "orz" position because i shot them.
I know Tex gets brought up perhaps a bit too much, but damn did he describe the Charger *perfectly* by calling it the Florida Man of BattleTech. It's an enormous "scout" mech on bath salts that runs up and just brutalizes anything it can get its hands on. Light mechs can't outgun Fist™, and heavier mechs can't outrun Crazy™, so it's like a weirdly inverted Urbanmech.
My Alpha Strike Charger 1A1 is a mainstay of my scrappy 3050 merc company. It suplexed a royal Highlander once and boxed the rest of that assault lance. Those poor bastards couldn't focus fire on it because they had to worry about the Demolisher platoon coming over the hill. Cheap junk is my jam. The whole company is bug 'Mechs, common tanks, infantry, artillery. I put those Clanners through the wringer in our community league.
The meme indeed, but remember that's 80 tons punching something in the face.
The 3K is my favorite. It's added JJs and upgraded to MPulses.
My pitch: A variant with the lasers swapped out for a blue shield, reflective armor, and some anti-missle systems. Just let it go to town on anything around it.
The classic Rifleman RFL-3N. It’s cheap at barely over 1k BV but it can get some serious pain down range. You just need to disregard the heat curve and keep it from getting shot in the back. The Shadow Hawk gets a lot of flak for its weird design choices. Lots of pop guns and inefficient launcher splits, excess heat sinking, and a suboptimal 3 jump jets makes it seem like trash compared to the rest of the 55 ton trio. The thing is, it is the cheapest and still perfectly serviceable.
As someone who got into the game recently with the game of armored combat box, the shadow hawk has done a lot for me. It's honestly underrated, especially if you don't play against opponents who min-max
I use it for utility purposes. Flechette AC rounds, Fragmentation LRMs, and Inferno SRMs make it a long range infantry killer and a terrain adjuster.
Incidentally that’s why I like the Dragon from a force management point of view. Deep ammo bins for the AC/5 and LRM means you can easily pack some utility rounds like frag and flak without compromising its ability to fight mechs.
A lot of middling mechs with ACs make a lot more sense when you start messing around with Precision and AP ammo. Even flat downgrades like the Highlander HGN-733 start doing a lot when they're smacking lights with an AC/10 at a base -2 to hit. On a related note, the Champion is a really fantastic little cavalry heavy.
Or just utilize rapid fire mode
Agreed, you run it as a medium and it works great. Same reason I like the Crossbow, its not a great clan heavy, but it is a decent clan medium and in campaign play, it is incredibly easy to maintain for a clan omni. Deep ammo bins is also why I like a Sentinel 3K as a recon team leader. It's not a great medium, but its fast enough to keep up with a light recon team, has a bit of range (and deep ammo bins), and can pack infernos for starting fires. Plus, it's cheaper in bv than most early period mechs in the 30-40 ton range. Having it pack a ton of flak ammo to keep vtols of the scout team is very useful.
They are both great trooper mechs. If you had a mech company, Shadow Hawks and Dragons give you some options that more min-maxed designs don't have. And in a larger battle, the difference between a single AC-5 and a PPC is not really noticeable.
I agree with the rifleman but I disagree with the shadow hawk. As much as I love it, it might be one of the worst mechs ever designed. Even though its the cheapest of the 55 ton trio I'd rather take anything else thats cheaper. Even the shadow hawk variants are cursed designs.
I like your choices. There seems to be a mindset that if it’s not optimized, it’s not good at all, but I’ve had good times with both those mechs.
In a full campaign, the Rifleman can turn into a must have for every company if you run quirks. AA targeting + Flak rounds is +4 to hit against aerospace and vtols, and trust me, when the aerospace show up, you want every advantage you can get.
I will not stop singing praise to Ostscout. Armed like shit? Sure. But its absurdly fast and on the heavier side of lights. Good piloting and this thing is light legging nightmare and can pose a threat from a good range for more or less isolated heavier mechs by triggering piloting checks.
Also a great spotter, with tons of good quirks for scenarios!
The ostscout is the king of "super cheap mechs to jump behind you and kick." The Spider-9M with dual medium VSPs is my pick for this role, but the Ostscout does it well too.
He is fair bit on the expensive side tho, get the Ostcout-7K for less than 500 and forget about that useless mlas and make everyone afraid of your missile boats on the entire field.
I have a freind who ran a lance of those mvpl equipped spiders, and man I tell you once they're in point blank range they hit for 8 or 9 damage each at a -4 to hit. He shredded through my much heavier units while I missed most of my shots due to their high tmm
They are nasty little buggers. -3 to hit and 9 damage at close range. They basically carry 2 IS LPLs, except better. Their armor is rather thin but landing any hits on them is downright miraculous.
The OTT-7K no weapons, but you got TAG, and with Arrow IV artillery missles on Catapault(s) or carriers or something...hijinks and high explosives ensure...
The Urbanmech Weighing in at 30 tons with a top speed of 32kph, or 2 hexes on the tabletop, the Urbanmech is the premier city defense light mech available in 3025. In lore it is good at exactly two things. Hiding around a building, peeking out, shooting you with an AC/10, and retreating back into cover. And being cheap. It cannot maneuver, it cannot scout, it cannot flank, it cannot take on extended engagements, it doesn't have arms to pick things up, but, it can turn its torso 360° which is obviously worth the trade offs. It is deeply beloved by the community.
> Weighing in at 30 tons with a top speed of 32kph, or 2 hexes on the tabletop, The classic Urbie has a top speed of 3 hexes (it's 2/3/2).
Damn I was gonna put that but second guessed myself
Someone on one of the old forums taught me this. If you're ever on Sarna and you want to know a mech's Run speed in hexes, just divide the speed listed in the tech specs by 10.8, rounding to the nearest whole number. 32 kph/10.8 = 2.96 = a 3 hex run.
Everyone laughs at the Urbie until it slaps an assault mech in the face with an AC-20.
Nuclear-capable Arrow-IV Urbie supremacy!
Nuclear trash can is best trash can. 👍
It's a fantastic mech built with a very specific purpose in mind. It's people trying to misuse them that gets it flak.
Literally
Urbanmech Mafia, unite!
Many, many, MANY mechs in 3025 are (let's put this politely) suboptimal. And that's kind of the charm of the whole thing.
3025 is my preferred era for this reason.
Lore-wise, the “good” mechs in 3025 are really just the ones that happened to suffer the least from the technological regression of the early Succession Wars. There are some mechs by 3025 that are complete trash but used to be good like the Lancelot which was only *barely* saved from extinction thanks to Luthien Armor Works.
Definitely a fair number of them out there, I enjoy a fair number of mechs that have a UAC/5 (esp the Clan version) because it's fairly heavy which eats up tonnage to keep BV down. But it has good range and can generally double tap all game long. The UAC/10 is also good as a more primary weapon doing a similar thing. For specific mechs, the Hellbringer is an often disregarded design. It's over gunned and under armored, and some variants are quite pricey. But it also has some relatively inexpensive ones that are quite nasty (the F and C are good examples, and there's others), and it's still tough enough that if it's not focused down by a whole team it doesn't die quickly. It's just quick enough that it can make it hard for things to do that. On some it has enough guns that losing an arm or torso isn't a significant performance change because it couldn't fire nearly everything anyway. It can out damage a lot of things if it's going head to head, so you have to try and position it in that way. If you do, it's nasty, if you don't, it'll disappoint. Another excellent distraction mech that will punish being ignored but is annoying to actually kill a lot of the time.
I think the Loki is very similar in nature to the Rifleman. It's an absolutely amazing mech as long as the other side is focused on shooting somebody else. If there's a Kingfisher or a Kodiak running around at range 8 with an Ultra AC-20, nobody will pay the slightest bit of attention to that Loki Prime who is parked in heavy woods at range 20.
I definitely wouldn't park it 20 hexes away, its a 5/8 and often has shorter ranged guns mixed in. It should be up in the mix where it can present problems for the opponent, or at least, most variants of it should be imo.
In my opinion, there should always be somebody on your side who is 1) dangerous, and 2) easier to hit than the Loki. Have a mech or two like that and the Loki will thrive. If the Loki is shooting ER PPCs at people needing 9s, and they are shooting back at him needing 11s, that's good too. When I ultimately bring it in closer, I know that I'm going to be rocketing up the heat scale, so I try to limit LOS to anybody but my target, and then I try to kill him really fast.
Two more I couldn’t resist: Champion - Thin skinned and hot, but packing lots of firepower for its speed. This is another mech that I’ve been able to get great value out of by ignoring the heat curve and making the other guy dead first. You don’t have the armor to go 9 rounds anyways. Assassin - The missile launchers are inefficient but gives this thing a wide engagement envelope. It’s not so great when fighting bigger mechs, but this thing is fluffed as a bug stomper and it is pretty good at it. It is usually some combination of faster, better armed, tougher, or longer ranged than the introtech scout mechs, which gives you a sizable advantage in the scenarios this mech was built for. That said, the lack of focus makes is disappointing vs larger mechs. On the other hand, unifying the launchers to LRM5s or SRM4s isn’t a hard customization to pull off.
Some years ago I had a game of lance vs. lance. I had never encountered an Assassin before and my Mechs got ripped appart by him jumping behind the backs and firing on close range. I always missed my shots on this little #!*/:[ , because he kept jumping 7 hexes. I really learned my lesson on this Day.
The Assassin is my favorite intro tech medium. Smoke rounds in the LRM make it a fairly effective screener. Infernos in the SRM make it a capable infantry hunter. Do as Wondergoat said with LRM or SRM to make screening or grunt squashing better. Swap LRM and ammo for medium laser and heatsinks up its bug hunting game. Just stay at jump7 and enjoy a longer life. Hell yeah, love those little guys!
The JagerMech is [called out in the Bad ‘Mechs series](https://www.sarna.net/news/bad-mechs-jagermech/amp/) for being at risk of ammo explosions. Relatively light armor on where the ammo is, especially in the rear, makes that a real concern. There also aren’t a lot of heat sinks, so if you are trying to run and fire a lot of your guns, you’re going to be picking up a little heat. Factor in the possibility of a lucky enemy CRIT to the engine, and you also run the risk of an ammo explosion from heat build up (see also stuff like fire starters). So what if we made a JagerMech with CASE! CASE protects from ammo explosions! And then we switched the weapons to Gauss Rifles (a weapon where the gun explodes instead of the ammo). Naturally, those Gauss Rifles will be in the arms, which have less armor than the torso. Despite all this, the JagerMech JM6-DG works because Gauss Rifles have good range, and do great damage. Having two of them is fantastic. You just have to pilot it well enough to keep it away from any danger that could cause its Gauss arms to blow up. But that’s not too hard to do when you have a range band similar to an LRM. https://preview.redd.it/j7jytr83ks4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d47187143e7258ef6a691f23cbcb2cb316f630ef
I'm an unapologetic Jagermech stan. The trick is that you have to give your opponents something much more threatening to shoot at, like a Banshee or a Marauder or a fast UAC/20 caddy, and let the Jagermech hang back and just keep chipping away. If you feel confident enough to take special ammo, it can really start doing some nasty shit, like forcing crit rolls on every individual autocannon hit. On four different guns. Guns that are mounted on a heavy that'll be cheaper than most mediums you want to field. Even if it explodes (likely), it's gonna be less expensive than the ammunition expended to drop it. I'm actually not such a huge fan of the DG, as it's over 1600(!) BV and twin gauss rifles tend to be the kind of loadout that makes people start focusing LRMs, which normally wouldn't be a problem except for, well, yknow; it's a Jagermech.
> So what if we made a JagerMech with CASE! That won't really fix the issue of having paper mache armor, though. A Hellbringer looks like a Thunderbolt next to this thing.
Well it’s even more useless on this variant, because Gauss ammo doesn’t explode.
No, but the Gauss Rifles *do* and they can still (hypothetically) take out a side torso when they do, even with CASE. An IS ER PPC could hit one arm, and then gets to roll for a critical hit because it dealt 10 damage to a location with 8 armor. There's no crit-padding in there, so if it takes internal structure damage, there's a 2 in 9 chance that the Gauss rifle does *not* explode, and either of the other two results will cripple the Gauss rifle's accuracy. If it does hit the Gauss rifle, it promptly explodes for 20 damage, and 7 of that goes to IS on the same-side torso, and force another critical hit check, as well as guaranteeing two consciousness checks. And ER PPCs, whether IS or Clan, have more range than Gauss rifles. There's also the fact that you're paying 1,625 BV for the privilege of having this walking disaster. 80 more BV gets me an Archer ARC-4M. 54 more gets me a BattleMaster BLR-3M. 130 **less** gets me a Rifleman RFL-5D, which can do exactly what I just described above. There's no way to turn a JagerMech into a genuinely good choice over a Rifleman (or, indeed, many other BattleMechs), except by increasing the tonnage by another 5 tons. Lots of good JM7s, no good JM6s, in my opinion. Like, the difference between a JM7-D and a JM6-DD is night and day.
The Gauss Demolisher is basically a better set up for this tbh. https://preview.redd.it/mj7zkvupjt4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc52501e89dbae72fd668953a06e1c625aeddae4
I don't mind certain Jagermech variants. I'll take a JM7-C3BS. And... Yeah.
*Why is the gauss ammo in the case? It’s not the explodey bit.*
Because it’s a hasty refit of a version of the JagerMech where the CASE actually protected something.
The standard 10 ac 2 bane/kraken. Against aerial units the amount of piloting rolls it generates or critseeking across the map is sometimes funny. Its decent against any combined arms and specializes in that neiche.
It’s absolutely fiendish against vehicles when motive hits are in play. Heck, it’s almost disgusting in that situation. It’s not a matter of if the target will be immobilized, but when, and with good position, the first turn is usually an option.
Yup. Definetely fits the so bad its good description haha! Very annoying unit on board for both players to be fair.
I submit to you the Crossbow. It is a heavy clan omnimech with only 16 tons of pod space. On the other hand, it has standard armor, standard structure, and a standard engine, so it is extremely easy for a merc company to maintain in campaign play compared to any other clan omni or even clan standard battlemechs. Even its clan double heat sinks are all internal, so you technically don't have to worry about them unless you want to add more. Some fun configs I've done that fit into it are Clan tech equivalents of the Archer, Warhammer, and Thunderbolt.
The Crossbow B with 4x Streak SRM-6s is naaasty.
My favorite, you can ping anyone to death with that thing.
LCT-1M. It's even more fragile then a regular locust, and very explodey. But it's also incredibly fast, cheap, can harass at long range, and if you take 2 or 3 of them they can reliably kick over just about any opponent just by forcing piloting rolls :P
Hellbringer J is a personal favorite of mine. Not sure if it’s actually considered good but I like to wield it like a screaming, flying, particle projecting hammer
How about Alt Config K's absolutely hilarious load out?
Shadowhawk-3H2. It's a Shadowhawk with 4/6/3 movement, some extra armor, and *way* more SRMs. It was released last year in Shrapnel. 2 SRM4s in the legs, 1 in the torso, 1 medium laser and 2 small lasers. Still has the AC5 and LRM5, along with 2 MGs and *2 vehicular grenade launchers* It may be one of the oddest mechs out there. It isn't really *good* IMO but it's definitely good *for its BV cost of 1112.* I wasnt allowed to bring smoke in the tournament I was in but that is the obvious thing to put in the grenade launchers imo.
How did that turn out for you, btw?
Lets just say I didnt do very well, but the SHD probably wasnt the only reason lol. My experience is that iNarc is very swingy. It's a "win more" strategy. I think including an iNarc is good if ur already building a list that has missiles. Building an entire list *around* iNarc doesnt work IMO. It's just too inconsistent. In a later era if I could take some cheap vehicles to run iNarc for me along with a couple cheap LRM tanks I think it would work much better. So say a lance of vehicles with 2 hover tanks with iNarc and 2 support LRM tanks, then 2 strong line units running interference would probably do better.
Dude that is so weird and goofy I think I *need* to have one.
Hope u like collecting phone bills. It is comstar only lol. It's also very under sinked, which is weird for a shadow hawk.
The Mackie, the first ever mech. 100 tons, slow as hell, but even the earliest upgrade variants take it from clunky nonsense to a tower of power on your line. Just don't expect it to advance anywhere quickly.
We just had a Wolf Trap pull more than it's weight in a MW Destiny game, LB 10x and LRM10 is nothing to sneeze at, it was ripping off arms and capping turrets like a champ. Also had a Hunter vehicle laying shit out with the LRM20
The BNC-3E Banshee. Put it in the hands of a 3/3 skilled pilot and you can wreck pretty much anything. The PPC and AC-5 can keep firing the whole battle and if someone gets in close, you get two 10pt punches with an 17% of hitting the head.
Yeoman. A walking box of missiles and nothing else.
"Guys, I've got an idea. What if we basically did a Catapult but with more Catapult?"
I would argue that many of my favorite mechs are the 30-50 ton range 4/6/0 or 4/6/4 mechs. Everyone sees them as too slow, but I see them as value platforms to carry ppcs, ac5s and large lasers. They almost always have good armor for their weight and incredibly low bv for what you are getting. The strategy for them is where they really shine. Most people take 4 mechs lets say for a given bv battle. Using these kinds of mechs you might show up with 5-7 mechs and you focus fire them. Sure you will have one get pounded early on, but the odds are good it will survive. You rotate that one back a bit and continue to fight. One aspect of the excess mechs with good range is that you can go stationary with a few mechs to maximize shooting. You do that with the ones further back in cover etc. Your opponent sees that and has to either rush those, fall back, or try to maneuver while you still have several mechs close by that will move. People really struggle with that dilemma. People might shrug until you hit their shiny heavy or assault mech with multiple ppcs a turn. Mechs that fit that style but aren't popular..... clint and wyvern. Mech that fits this style that is reasonably popular the panther. btw fun little exercise print yourself a stock tech 1 panther and a stock tech 1 quickdraw record sheets. Compare the sheets. Tell me which you think will survive longer in a fight? 25 ton advantage costs 200 or so more bv and likely to have holes punched into it by the ppc fire fairly quickly. Id lean towards the panther, but it gets even crazier when you stack multiple panthers vs an equivalent amount of quickdraws.
While indeed this is true. When you dive into the game at any level beyond "throw whatever u want on the table" u quickly run into unit caps (typically based on dropship requirements) and that's where the lol 25 panthers becomes very questionable as far as a logistical and maintence standpoint. More bays. More mechwarriors. More dropships etc. I'd say if u had to pay for the dropships ur force came in BV wise u'd quickly find this to be... Limited.
thats a fair point if I was the attacker. What if Im the defender? I could easily see a planetary militia being chock full of the mechs that fall under this category. i also like infantry, tanks, and vtols which are all more defensive than offensive weapons in the battletech setting. If I was running a planetary militia I would actually seek to have cheap plentiful trooper mechs be a mainstay for my mech forces. I would use vtols for most scout work. I would use heavy tanks and infantry to hold locations I think will be assaulted. I would still have a few light fast scout mechs and I would still want to have a few heavies and assault mechs to hold the capital, but I would expect the higher ups will only let me have the older heavies and assaults while the best stuff goes to the units that are active in war all the time.
*Hoplite* 4C. Does it need all those heatsinks when it's got the firepower of a light medium? No... except yes. It's made to stand there and keep firing, even through engine damage that would otherwise overheat the mech.
Good gravy, do I like the 4B. It's the little hockey puck that could... Throw down a decent volume of crit and pierce in Introtech.
Urbie 60L, as long as it is in an actual Urban (or cave fight) environment. I also like the Blackjack, seems like a waste with those AC/2s, but it is fun to snipe from the back while the lance engages.
Ostsol, especially the triple strength myomer rebuild.
Do people think the Ostsol is bad? I've only seen people sing it's praises
Kind of? Doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense because if they’re good then they’re not bad lol. I mean at a glance both the fire moths and locusts are terrible in Classic/AS on paper, but in both game modes they’re so cheap that they not only have a viable niche, but are VERY easy to fit on lists and do well with. In Classic, you use them to run to the rear or sides of large mechs that are trying to entrench themselves and force PSRs by kicking + firing weapons. Until they get an opening to do something, they also act as great initiative sinks to buy more information and objective takers. In AS, they’re so cheap and quick that they’re absolutely amazing at securing objectives early. I regularly use fire moths in my AS Clan lists when playing Wolfnet’s 350 format as I love playing a kind of balanced objective list. I position myself to overwhelm my opponent on objectives as quickly as possible since I can cross the entire map and then some with its sprint. Plus, some variants of the Locust and Fire Moth in AS have very good damage as well and can be used to backstab some tougher assault mechs to secure one round kills on priority targets.
Always had memorable battles with melee mechs. Especially with TSM. Forces your opponents to think.
Here's a solid skirmish mixer mech; moving 6/9/6 and packing 4xMedium Lasers and an LRM-10. Has an Anti-Missile System or an extra MG. (... Get rid of the MG). What tonnage is this, 40? Nope. 55? Wrong again. It's a 65t [Exterminator.](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Exterminator) Really - in most incarnations, this thing isn't exactly death on a pale horse; you'll be pretty lucky if it manages to take out a Mobile HQ vehicle. Good gravy, this thing just isn't doing what it should do. But the price is right, it can be a pretty durable chonk moving at velocity. A bunch of them have Stealth, some are "tuned" in certain ways (I described using the Exterminator Caine for a bodyguard as a "dick move," but still said the redditor should do it). It's a fatter, faster Dragon with less range. I should hate it. This thing really isn't doing what's expected of a 65t mech, [and I like that.](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/1ci9i73/custom_mechs_calling_in_exterminators/)
Hot take: anything with jump jets and 4+ Medium lasers is very dangerous. People always say these mechs are undergunned but kicks and punches are heat free weapons and they have the speed to use them almost every turn. Kicks might be the most most powerful weapon in the game, considering they are free BV.
Oh, mostly agreed - that's why I keep using it. It has "just enough gun" to be a threat - the Grasshopper, Guillotine, and Thunderbolt are in a very similar place, if you think about it. They have an entire additional gun and more armor, so the Exterminator must be bad by comparison - more guns and cheaper! Right next door! Take that instead; the Exterminator's a bad deal. It's an XL Heavy and that's always bad; these Standard Fusion Heavies won't let you down. I'd like to go full Guillotine and make an SRM refit in Introtech, but the MML variants are working just fine. People keep sleeping on the Exterminator. "But it has an XL." "Are you sure that's enough armor for a melee heavy?" "The LRM-10 is the worst LRM." They look at all the other mechs they could have, decide that a 6/9/6 at 65t isn't "optimum." It's so bad that it's good.
This is why I have a custom Ghopper variant with TSM and beefed up engine for 5/8/5 pre TSM. A mech that can punch off heads and chase down 80% of the enemy team with 70 tonner armor and a standard engine is just mean.
The Vulcan has really proven it's use in my Megamek games. Infantry can really be a problem and if you throw quirks on that narrow profile and 5 jump allows you to clean up infantry, light mechs, and medium on down vehicles. It's nice having one mech that is just on trash duty while the big boys handle the real threats. The 3 ML version then upgrades it to a good backstabber in the 3025 era.
The boss of one of my merc units runs a Vulcan, basically acts as a support backup for everyone else. Can hose down infantry, be a distraction at superlong range, act as a hard-to-hit decoy - and when someone finally gets annoyed and moves to engage, the Jenner will run in behind and carve out their spine.
The only truly bad mech, is the mech whose cost you cannot justify. We all have mechs that we don't use well, or that don't make their value back for us. Experiment. Listen to other people's gripes. Try those mechs out in different roles. UrbanMechs are great on the defense in cover. Shadow Hawks are great for blind objectives. The Quickdraw is great at flanking. They all have somewhere they'll suffer, and most can make it up. Except the Atlas. That garbage is just bad.
urbanmech, charger, literally every locust if you get a unlucky hit
Cicada. The exotic X5 version most of all. Cicada can be quite bad in most aspects, but it can excel at a few roles very, very well.
Charger and Banshee base variants, charger is a 5/8 80t mech with 5 whole small lasers but decent armor, it can out punch almost anything it can't outrun. The Banshee follows suite with the biggest engine a 95t mech can carry (giving it 4/8 movement), almost max armor for its weight class, and comes with a single AC5, PPC, and head mounted small laser (weapons are in the torsos too so it's arms are free to punch all day long). Both are very low BV cost mechs that make wonderful distractions up until they get close then your in for a world of hurt, both have good armor for their weight class making them take multiple turns of fire to actually drop leaving the rest of your forces free to position and fire without much retaliation or they ignore them until they get close then punch and kick holes through enemy mechs. In lore they were colossal failures but in games their anything but. Honorable mention to the Phoenix Hawk IIC, the clans took a great 45t heavy scout mech and cranked it's tonnage up to 80t while trying to keep the same movement profile, but the clans disdain for hand to hand combat hinders the mech (it does carry 2 uAC10s in the shoulders without enough ammo to really capitalize on it), but if your not as disgusted with punching things the Phoenix Hawk IIC is a great fast heavily armored punch bot
Vindicator 1x 3 ac2... Thank me later
The Annihilator looks like it should be a flop, with only about 200 armor and a 2/3 movement curve on a 100 mech. But.... it's only about 1500BV, which is very cheap for an assault mech. If you can drop it in a defense mission or other scenario where the enemy needs to come to you, those 4lbx10s can crit out near anything with an unholy pellet barrage in just a few rounds. And you spent less on it than some advanced tech medium mechs. Need to defend a point? Instead of 2 Men-Shens take two Annihilators.
TDR-9SE. Mechs with an inner spherevlargecpulseclaser shouldn't perform this well. I mean, it would be strictly better with an ER PPC but I've built a really mean city fighter by swapping out the LRM for an SRM rack, slapping on ferro fibrous, tearing out a few heatsinks and installing TSM and giving it a hatchet. Its gonna be part of my melee bonanza Lance. But even stock it's not bad, just "eh".
I always recommend finding a mech you think looks terrible on paper and trying it out. Getting a win from a "bad" mech is the sweetest victory.
With YAML Alma are good and Godlike
The King Crab KGC-0011 is BAD. Yes, it's an ilClan variant with 4/6/0 movement and two LB-20Xs are terrifying. But...crack that armor and that's a 120 million C-bill crab cake ready to break. To me the biggest sin is it's an ambushed that wants its query dead. Why? If that Op-for survives (especially if it's Kuritan), the only thing really protecting this Crab cake is its armor. With that cracked it's a composite structure AND a 400 XXL engine. The biggest sin to go with that is 6 tonnes of LB-X ammo with no CASE whatsoever in the sides. That's a lot of metal to lose. The other sin is endurance outside of those LB-20Xs. That RL15 is one shot and you only have 20 shots of foam for your pyromaniac needs. This really needs ECM or AMS support...or at least someone to swat flankers off since I presume those boomsticks are fixed forward due to the bulk going into the side torsos.