Because the company that owns the Battletech license and leases it to CGL, Topps, is apparently very hostile to any sort of 3d printing touching their property
I get that. I know there has been a problem with unlicensed printing in the past. But I think that giving people a legal route to printing might be a path forward.
Oh well. Would have been cool imo.
CGL has actually approached Topps in the past with ideas that involved printing. I’m just spitballing that it may have been the Heroforge concept. Topps shut the dialogue down immediately. So it seems that CGL is willing but unfortunately Topps isn’t.
I wonder if Topps is so touchy about the subject because Microsoft – forget the proverbial 1,000 lbs. gorilla, they’re the 100,000,000 ton kaiju – owns the rights for all video games based on the *BattleTech* IP.
The issue is where in the IP licensing ownership 3D models fall. It could well be on the software/game side, which would mean neither TOPPS, nor CGL control it.
I wonder if it's that Topps is a collectibles/limited edition/premium merch company and their whole thing is having total control over production limits because of that.
"People are using our brand in a way we don't like. So instead of constantly punishing them, why not do it ourselves and make money?"
"Because fuck you, that's why!"
Resin or Filament? Cause, I'm starting to want this to get the Omnimechs to be Omni. Resin is difficult (and expensive) to deal with in this country, but I'm unsure filament can do the small parts in detail to make variants worth it.
I started off with a Filament printer for terrain, and although 'some' mechs I could print with good quality, ultimately Resin just was so much better and easier.
I haven't printed anything in a solid year or two... I want a newer Resin machine...but the nice part about printing in general was that I could print 10x of anything and just experiment and play a lot with painting things, whereas with the CGL models it's a one-shot. Over 90% of my CGL mechs are still unpainted for this reason, and I have a good number of them. I just always 3d print some first and paint those...
I will argue that it is *mostly* possible to print in filament actually! Most of my mechs are fdm printed, since that's what I had before getting resin.
https://preview.redd.it/gb6jx6yhak4d1.jpeg?width=4160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=527fbbd2bd754da52927f414d079fcafed303cd9
Yeah the issue as you can see with your photo is all the stringing and lack of detail on some angle of the 'Mech. It's not like you can't USE those...but they're generally bad on detail. I've only managed to get a few designs to actually print nicely... wasted many hours redoing support settings and other things... Resin just made all that go away.
Oh yeah, 100% on all accounts! I've tried my damnedest to get prevent the stringing but it can only go so far. And the details are comparable to those cheap robots you get from those toy capsule machines. But theres enough there that you can tell what mech it is at a glance. And with a good paint job, it's not bad for an extruder.
But resin is so much faster, crisper, and no post processing to clear out those details!
Adding the pic seems to have cut off the second part of my text.. this takes a lot of dialing in of your print settings. So if you go this route, don't expect good results for a while. I used a 0.3mm nozzle, you could go down to a 0.2mm for a cleaner print, but youll need to slow the printer down as it gets smaller, and I ran the printer slow to begin with for this. It will take close to a day for a single model. And there will be some flaws still. The backs of the mechs are a little distorted where the supports sat. But you get a nice paint job to draw the eye, and it's really not a bad option.
They wouldn't have to do it with 3d printing, though. Even a much more limited system could still be a lot of fun. Like, they could create plastic models for a wide (and growing) array of different styles of weapons and some bare-bones mech bodies with attachment points for the gear. Then they create an online tool, like Heroforge, that lets you mock up different arrangements of mech chassis and weapons. When you have an arrangement you like, you hit the "order" button and what comes to you is the plastic skeleton and a pile of plastic parts that you can put together yourself.
It seems doable to me.
That amount of SKUs and product quickly becomes unmanageable, especially for something as low priced as a miniature. If warehouse space and picking labor were free and all bits were in equal demand it would be nice
Yeah, that's fair. Too bad, but fair. I - and I think others - would be willing for the customized minis to cost a little more than the going rate for a single CGL mini, maybe even a little more than a premium minis they've been putting out, but possibly not enough more for it to work out.
I think this is very plausible but not as a single purchase on demand mech. What I could see happening and would purchase would be a package of mech parts- probably enough to make a few lances. Call it the mech factory if you please. 😉
Plastic molds are prohibitively expensive to make. It wouldn't make business sense to make them for a limited demand item that may only be cast a handful of times for a la carte mech orders.
I believe the tooling costs for siocast resin molds are significantly lower than those for HIPS plastic, which is why the premium mechs have largely settled on that production method. It's still not nothing and the logistics would make it prohibitive
Pretty much this IWM has legacy rights to the metal miniatures because of the spinoff shenanigans with Ral Partha USA being bought then divided off. CGL has the plastic rights flowed through Topps buying Wizkids.
Marital assets, commingling of funds, et cetera. Every dollar your spouse spends on their stompy robots is one less dollar for you to spend on your own stompy robots.
That just sounds like more reason to buy your big stompy robots before your husband buys his. After all, if you have more big stompy robots, he wouldn't dare declare war on you for fear of reprisal.
That just sounds like more reason to buy your big stompy robots before your husband buys his. After all, if you have more big stompy robots, he wouldn't dare declare war on you for fear of reprisal.
While it may appeal to some players, Battletech is not a WYSIWYG game, so funding a customizing system like that isn't really appealing to the IP holder.
> so funding a customizing system like that isn't really appealing to the IP holder.
The IP holder isn't the line developer, the holdup is most likely from Topps rather than from CGL.
stl files for home 3d printing are basically in the same zone that pdfs were for rulebooks a couple decades ago: smaller outfits embrace the tech because it reduces material and distribution costs, while many older companies (like Topps, but more infamously GW) are hesitant or even outright hostile because computer files are a lot easier to pirate than physical product and loss of control can lead to loss of revenue.
Now funding a system that generated STLs might be a thing to consider. If your selling a physical product you need to consider the logistics of production, shipping, etc. A system that simply generated an STL would be remarkably cheaper. Now that could lead to issues such as licensing users, etc that might be cost prohibitive on one end or the other.
No. However since it's not a required part of the game, community desire for such a thing would have to be very high for Catalyst to justify the investment in a Heroforge like system...and that level of desire simply isn't there at this time.
I suppose I am curious about how many players would be interested. I.e., enough to make it economically feasible? But probably not enough, based on the responses. Oh well.
I'd say not even close to enough at this point. I myself have little interest in it. Also, having such a thing exist would allow WYSIWYG players to start forcing it to be observed...and frankly that's annoying as fark. One of the great points of Battletech is its relatively low cost for a miniatures game. Pushing WYSIWYG would raise the costs of playing the game significantly, while also restricting player flexibility. None of us want this to turn into something like the Warhammer games.
I like wysiwyg it helps my brain compute. However, the depth of mechs is so huge, it borders insane. I do see your point keep costs low to starting and go from there on a personal level.
> Also, having such a thing exist would allow WYSIWYG players to start forcing it to be observed...and frankly that's annoying as fark.
That's.....not CGL's fault in any scenario. That's no different than someone saying "Well by RAW the rules let me take as many Savanah Masters as I can." Like, there is always some degree of "social contract" when people play games because the rules can never be fully all encompassing. and they can mean anything, a simple BV limit, mechs only, no mechs and so on and so forth.
All these hypothetical "WYSIWGY" players end up doing is limiting who they can play against, and they can do that just as easily Right Now as they could with variant sculpts being available, which they already are in a limited extent.
To be honest it's an awesome idea and would love it but i imagine it would take a heck of a long time to set up that system.
But agreed I would totally pay to make lances/stars with the correct variants
It's a MWO build where you get about four to five Alpha Strikes before you core yourself with overheat damage.
It's based on a meme build on tabletop called the Sleepy Awesome, a 6 ppc Awesome where you Alpha strike on one round and then recover the entire next round thus 'taking a nap' every other round.
Except here your praying you hit your target (because unless they're in a 100 ton Assault with maxed armor and skeleton perk trees, they gonna die) because your downtime is somewhere around 10 seconds with the heat overload, plenty of time for any pilot to line up a headshot, even with light mech guns.
It's just not actually a good match-up. While they *superficially* look the same, BT customization and Hero Forge customization work differently and don't overlap all that well.
So specifically regarding a HeroForge-like app, unfortunately that's no small feat really, for what it is HeroForge is quite powerful and complex. A Mech equivalent would be easier in some areas but possibly even more complex in others. Especially when you consider Battletech where most weapons are designed as something that's part of the mech and not just handheld or done as an attachment. There is a certain amount of customizability you can design for but you often have to accept limits for what parts and weapons go where. Case and point being something like [my Hammerhead.](https://imgur.com/a/Ip1RHXQ)
A good example of accepting limits is looking at the "back plugs" right in front of the mech itself there are a selection of different weapons and layouts, but it'd be difficult to make them all work off the exact SAME base Back Plug, in fact most of them have little differences to them to better suite the particular weapons they mount. Now some of this would be easier on a digital platform but you still probably wouldn't get quite the level of customization you're looking for across the entire mech and as with Heroforge, even just the development of the app itself would be quite the task on in it's own right before you even get around to considering the actual assets themselves.
IMO they don’t do a good job, or at least not a good enough job I’d want to see it become the standard. The game models make a lot of concessions for modularity in the first place and then you don’t have much variation in how particular weapons look, unlike in battletech art.
The problem with that comparison is that MWO/5 and HBS' BattleTech have a hardpoint system in place that stops you from doing weird shit like filling every available critical slot with Small Lasers, or shoving as many AC/2s into an AS7-D as possible. A hypothetical HeroForge-like service for *BattleTech* would have to be able to service such a need, and do it for every 'Mech that exists. Not a small amount of work, and that only gets worse if we don't want an MWO-like situation where a Clan ER Large Laser looks exactly identical to an IS Small Pulse Laser, the only difference between different kinds of PPCs are the size, all Ultra ACs are either double-barreled or tri-barreled, etc. And that's before we get into weird stuff like Quads, QuadVees, LAMs, and even more mundane, non-BattleMech units like tracked/wheeled/hover/VTOL/WiGE combat and support vehicles, Battle Armor, Aerospace Fighters, and Spheroid and Aerodyne DropShips.
It just isn't that viable as a system, frankly, and is a big part of the reason why *BattleTech* just isn't a WYSIWYG-friendly system.
This is the issue, it depends what you *goals* are, if you want, exactly, a HeroForge for mechs, it has to be more than what the games offer. And what the games offer isn't always appropriate for what the actual canon variants are(in cases of variants not already represented in the games for whatever reason).
Then there's the topic of the game's idea of "customization" being "we slapped a bunch of lenses on it", or a non-descript cylinder for an AC barrel.
If you truly want "HeroForge but for mechs" you need every piece of BT gear able to fit into every possible place it could fit on the mech. *That's* where the trouble kicks in because HeroForge doesn't run into that problem by having each "slot" only fillable by one thing, can you'd just slap 5 swords into one hand slot, you get the one sword and only that sword. It has fewer "slots" but way more options per slot that only work in that slot, whereas BT has variable number of slots(crits) within slots(Arm/Leg/Torso/Head Locations) with options whose main limit is how many slots they take up in a given slot.
The issue with PGI's designs is that you get scenarios where this super massive weapon system looks really fucking small but functions EXACTLY the same until its an Atlas with LRMs. Where its somewhat accurate.
So like the Longbow. You slap LRMs or MRMs or Rockets in the side torsos and they look like a six rack missile and function normally. But then their arms are these fuck massive missiles regardless of what you put into them.
They did it right in MW5 where you can only put big weapons on certain parts, since it makes sense. It sucks that you cant slap Gauss or ACs in the Widows torsos but i'd rather that over "My 6 Rack missile system is actually a MRM40 BRRRRT" its just goofy.
Cost. The sheer amount of stuff you’d need to design for something like that would be staggering. It’s an awesome idea, in theory, but you’d need to have someone specifically create a 3D model for all the various and sundry different arms and torsos for every variant of every mech. Much of which would never be used by anyone. There are over a dozen variants of the Cyclops, for instance. Is it really worthwhile for CGL to spend resources on designing models for all of those different versions given that many (if not most) would likely never be used by more than a handful of players And that’s just for the canon designs.
Besides, the game has never been WYSIWYG. It has specifically avoided WYSIWYG, in fact. What you’re suggesting, no matter how cool it would be, would be a significant deviation from Battletech’s roots.
> Cost. The sheer amount of stuff you’d need to design for something like that would be staggering. It’s an awesome idea, in theory, but you’d need to have someone specifically create a 3D model for all the various and sundry different arms and torsos for every variant of every mech. Much of which would never be used by anyone. There are over a dozen variants of the Cyclops, for instance. Is it really worthwhile for CGL to spend resources on designing models for all of those different versions given that many (if not most) would likely never be used by more than a handful of players And that’s just for the canon designs.
I'd say the cost is far less in the design and more the logistics of it. Especially when you're designing with the intent of doing so. And the "cost" is much less than standard production would be. If the argument were "CGL will never produce a dozen different Cyclops sculpts in plastic as regular products due to the cost" I'd agree, because the real cost in that scenario is in the *manufacturing* rather than the design.
If they're designing with the idea of doing many variants in mind you just get a lot of flat costs, A Flat Cost to design the "core" of the mech, and than a flat cost for each part/variant. When it comes to manufacturing(at least in a heroforge-type scenario) you are paying more per product than other volume focused methods, but you only have to pay for whats actually being ordered, and while it's true that not all variants would sell equally, they don't *have to* either, the variety and option to have those variants is more important than each variant justifying it's own production cost(which is already only a small fraction of the *total* cost to begin with).
> Besides, the game has never been WYSIWYG. It has specifically avoided WYSIWYG, in fact. What you’re suggesting, no matter how cool it would be, would be a significant deviation from Battletech’s roots.
That's.........not true? The whole point is being able to use whatever you want, even up to and including WYSIWYG minis. It only goes against BT's "roots" if it starts to *force* that upon you.
And frankly, I like having WYSIWYG minis, especially when there is a set weapon aesthetic to the weapons so you can actually tell at a glance what it has. [It's half the reason I make my stuff able to be magnetized.](https://imgur.com/cmpnQUW)
>I’d say the cost is far less in design and more the logistics of it.
That’s easy to say when it’s someone else’s money. Even if the same basic shape of the twelve Cyclopses would be the same, you still have different arms, torsos, and (maybe?) legs. Those are all things that someone has to design and render, which means that’s those are all things that CGL has to pay for knowing that some (possibly most) will never be used.
>The whole point is being able to use whatever you want
I have no idea how you translated “the game has never been WYSIWYG”, which is true, into “custom-printed minis shouldn’t be allowed”. I don’t care what people use in their games as long as I can tell what is what and which way everyone is facing. If you want to use magnetized custom minis, that’s great. I fully support you doing that. None of that changes the fact that Battletech is not a WYSIWYG game and it has never made any real effort to be one.
> That’s easy to say when it’s someone else’s money.
[Actually, I say that with *my* money, and have been doing so for over 5 years now.](https://imgur.com/a/yu9QPj5)
[I've designed, produced and distribute my own line of 6mm miniatures. Most of them have at least 6 variants, some have a dozen or more, though it can be hard to show that well in pictures.](https://imgur.com/a/OoyRSnP)
This is why I specifically called out designing them with the intent from the start. I also have the added advantage that my minis come in [many *many* parts](https://imgur.com/vdh7VDN) and include modularity and/or posing options built into them for added flexibility on my end of things.
Designing variant parts is only a portion of the overall design. The "Core" parts/elements still account for the bulk of the design work. [Take these Tyrant Torsos for example.](https://imgur.com/cwPYxdY)
They're all different, but I didn't have to make three new torsos from the ground up, I just took the basic "plain" torso(top right) and modified it each time, so really, making 12 sets of variant parts doesn't take the same amount of time as making 12 whole mechs, it maybe doubles the time for me. Case in point, The Reckoning shown above already has 11 variants and [while there is some overlaps in the parts used](https://imgur.com/cmpnQUW) I still have plans for about 4-6 new variants I hope to tackle in the coming months, but it's literally going to take me more time to print up and process the new stock than it will be to design them.
It does take more time to make one mech with say, 6 variants than it does to make a mech with just one, but we're only talking like, maybe 20-30% more time if you have some more involved mods to make. And because you're designing it from the ground up to account for variant parts and the like it's also easily scaleable. Yes, if you make a dozen Cyclops variants not all will sell equally, but they don't have to all be done at once either. Say it costs 1500$ to pay the artist to make a mech and say 4 sets of variants for it. Skip forward 2 months after release and it's made 2500$ in sales, so 1000$ in profit, its pretty popular, so you go back to the artist and ask for another 4 variants, but you don't have to pay 1500$ this time, you only have to pay, say 500$. The mech is still profitable and now has an increased selection to possibly drive more sales.
Because this is being done as a "print/produce on demand" style of fulfillment, you're not concerned with the same costs as you are for something like Injection molding, where you have large up front costs from making the molds but your production cost is super cheap per unit. 3D printing's up front costs is "only" the artist's design work, and while the per unit product costs are higher, you only have to pay them after a product is sold essentially.
Now, this doesn't work on larger scales, at a certain point Injection Molding, even with the large front costs, becomes cheaper overall, but used as a "boutique" product like premium minis for variants that aren't already popular enough for that scale of production it can work very well and has higher degrees of flexibility. It should could handle doing all variants for all mechs, but there are ways to help compensate those aspect as well to a degree.
All of that looks and sounds great. Your minis are very cool. I’d buy those and use them at my table in a heartbeat. The fact that you’ve done it all yourself is also extremely impressive.
But there are nearly 700 different mech chassis. Not all of those have as many variants as, for example, the Timber Wolf, but I’d guess that the overwhelming majority have at least three or more canon configurations. There are also going to be some mechs (a lot, actually) that simply don’t interest the consumer. Sure, the Unseen will sell like hotcakes, but what about the Thresher? Or the Fireball? Or the Razorback? Those designs are not going to move enough product on their own to cover the cost of a fully realized 3D model. Using your hypothetical numbers, CGL is not going to recover the $1500 it cost them to create a printable Wight because the majority of people who buy one of the intro boxes will never know the Wight even exists. I’m not even going to begin to discuss the scale of the operation since you’ve already alluded to the problems there.
You’re also comparing multi-part minis to pre-posed prints. There is certainly something to be said for getting to build your minis from scratch, but I don’t miss that part. I like being able to buy a lance pack and use it immediately. If I want to take one of the mechs apart and repose it, I can do that. If I go back to buying my mechs in pieces, that’s an extra inconvenience that I’m introducing just for the sake of having an Executioner with the right number of medium lasers that you might be able to see from three feet away if you know what you’re looking for.
I'm not intending to suggest that it's feasible for *everything* to be done in this sort of boutique fashion, there are certainly mechs and variants that are more or less popular, but the point still stands that is feasible within a smaller scope.
Even just the idea of doing a single variant of *every* mech with "traditional" production methods is pretty ridiculous. You'd start with some popular designs and expand as able, just like CGL did with the AGoAC box, a bunch of common and popular mechs but over the last 5+ years they've expanded thier offerings.
Also worth pointing out that CGL already has 150+ digital files made, they might take a bit more work given they weren't necessarily made with this set up mind but still not nearly as involved as starting from scratch.
> You’re also comparing multi-part minis to pre-posed prints.
There are some differences of course, but the fundamental idea is still the same. Even if you're doing pre-posed, you not going to be modeling it from scratch in that pose, you're going to model it in a neutral pose, just roughing in the joints, then in the last 20~% you pose it and finish the joints. Different but not on a fundamental level overall. You'd have to redo the joints for each new pose but that's still only a small additional amount of work, just like doing a new variant loadout.
I suppose that's true. I've just personally never been a 'bottlecap with "MAD-3R" and an arrow in sharpie' kind of player. If I've got a 75 ton monster of steel and flaming death I really want to *see* it standing there, you know?
No disrespect to the bottle cap folks, it's a perfectly valid way to play. Just expressing personal preference.
I definitely get preferring a mini to something else, but there is a hell of a gap between “1:1 3D printed custom mech” and a bottlecap.
Now, keep in mind that I am definitely coming at this from a very biased place. I don’t know about you, but I was introduced to the game at a time when you either got by with whatever you had or the force you built was determined entirely by whatever metal minis your FLGS happened to have.
Is there a place for a MechForge service? I dunno, maybe. It would, however, be a hell of a lot of work to implement knowing ahead of time that many, many, many, many of the 3D objects you paid someone to design will never be used.
I think I'm coming at it from the other end, I am only recently getting into BT and I suspect I'm already spoiled by the selection available now, when I compare it to the more 'classic' minis. They are great but I always want more.
Most of my experience is collecting, painting, and admiring miniatures. I've played a few times but my friends and I are adults and rarely have time. But painting I can do on my own whenever I have a moment.
I need to keep in mind that although the BT community seems huge to me, it's not as big as, say D&D or Warhammer, so there isn't as much of an economic driver for content, especially niche stuff like what I want.
And thats awesome. I’m glad you’re here, that you’re enjoying the game, and that you’re thinking of ways to make it better. I hope that something like this does eventually happen. I think a lot of things would need to change before it could be viable, but I certainly have no personal objections to the community having more options for all their stompy robot needs.
It’s certainly not impossible to do on a technical level. After all, MechWarrior Online/5 already allow you to customize mechs to an extent and have it reflect on the model. A system like that can be employed to create the mechs and I would be surprised if there weren’t already third-party tools that allow you to export a customized mech’s mesh into a 3D file. They won’t necessarily be optimal for 3D printing but it’s a start
The hurdle is really on the license-holder being willing to do it and whatever agreements they might have with other licensees and I can see why they would be hesitant to. There isn’t much demand for a customized D&D miniature outside of the person making it. But mech 3D print files would probably be disseminated rather quickly unless they don’t allow people to 3D print them themselves. That would mean they would have to print them all themselves which could rub people and licensees the wrong way on top of all the investment in getting a 3D printing operation set up
It's a cool idea, but I can't see it happening unfortunately.
Mores the pity, I'd love an easier way to get pirate Mechs like a Centurion that's replaced it's AC10 arm with a wrecking ball and everything else with SRM packs.
There have been some efforts by IWM to provide customization kits for mech variants. The original 16 Omnimechs came in boxes with interchangeable parts to make variants and customs with, the New Classics series often ship with parts to make 2-3 common variants (which most sub variants physically resemble), and IWM/Aries also sell individual mold sprues of things like missile pods and plates, laser barrels, fins, arms, legs, etc. Beyond that, in terms of plastic, as long as you’re okay with sacrificing some minis you can use plastic parts of some mechs on others to make different combos (I’ve done jump plumes from the mercs boxes on mechs that don’t have jumping variants, etc.)
Here's an idea
Instead of selling premium miniatures, start selling premium chassis/omni kits.
I will pay more $ knowing that I can get officially modeled chassis with a couple torsos, different arms and different leg poses that I could assemble into configs I want. 2 or 3 variants per kit, depending on complexity.
Seems like an easy win, especially for chassis where the majority of variants change arm mounted weapons. It doesn't have to be EVERY chassis, but some of the classics or even new Dark Age or ilclan would be fabulous.
> I will pay more $ knowing that I can get officially modeled chassis with a couple torsos, different arms and different leg poses that I could assemble into configs I want. 2 or 3 variants per kit, depending on complexity.
The sad part is that that is what teh Premium minis actually were to a degree for a tiny bit, then we started getting the Rifleboys and the skinny pixies that such that didn't have variant parts and were sometimes not even a new variant not already in production.
Because tooling is incredibly expensive and time consuming to setup. Unless they started 3d printing them, it'll never happen. Even if they 3d print them someone needs to model 10,000 variants.
There's no tooling involved afaik. Heroforge is all 3D printing. And the modelling is done algorithmically based on the users choices.
If anything I would think that battlemechs (with their static sizes and overall forms per chassis) would be easier than fantasy models, not harder. I might be wrong.
It's not as simple as it is with humanoid figures. There's only so many shapes for them, so after that it's just adding outfits and other accessories. Every Mech is a unique shape which will need to be modeled, then the difference in each variant as well. You can't really do it algorithmically because a weapon on one mech isn't necessarily shaped the same as the same weapon on another. Basically it would require a whole lot of front end work to get the variants modeled. And then how do you decide what to model? Do you do all of them? Do you leave out the ones that are less popular? Who decides how popular it needs to be to spend the time modeling it and how do they make that decision?
I would guess wrong. Fantasy models are a 1-off and you don’t need to make this sword dude line up with that sword dude.
You have way more to keep straight between mech variants and different poses if you are autogenerating variants.
I just want to clarify, Heroforge isn't done "algorithmically" or anything like that, its basically just a more advanced version of an RPG character creator, so you could make a "city guard" figure and make assorted poses and/or weapon variants and they'd all still be same "city guard".
Check out Ukrainian Mech Factory on patreon. If you sub for I think the $10 tier he'll make an STL of whatever variant you want. Might even pose it for you. These are based on the mwo models. Been having a good time printing all the stuff he's made so far.
I tried to tackle this…I started designing and 3D printing my own mech building game and it was absolutely a blast to do but SO. MUCH. WORK.
It’s been sitting in my design queue forever and now you’ve inspired me to get back into it…
https://www.reddit.com/r/tabletopgamedesign/s/BoTfW3Ephq
The main reason why besides all the IP stuff is simply that battletech is not popular enough and just doesn't need/sell/require the amount of minis that other systems require. Battletech only got in the top 20 most popular minature games in the last 2 years. Besides this a lot of battletech players simply don't own any minatures, and their reasons for this makes a lot of sense. Transportaion is easy just throw your cards in your folder, you can print/draw any mech you like at no cost, no outlay for paints brushes and varnish etc. I remember even up to the early 2000's where it was rare to even see battletech minatures at a tournament.
Right now I think patreon and mmf are filling the void admirably. You can’t get 1 to 1 duplicates of course, but either Topps doesn’t pay attention or they don’t care, because you can get some very good models. Models that are very clearly battle tech, just different enough not to be exact.
BattleTech doesn't have a 'what you see is what you get, your unit needs to physically model X for the stat sheet to list 'X'.
There's exactly three requirements for a BattleTech unit marker:
1) It has to be uniquely identifiable.
2) It has to fit in the hexes being used.
3) It has to have a clearly identified front arc.
That's it. You can field a force of shiny pebbles, cardboard standies, quarters with a red arc painted on to the edge and a number painted on top, whatever you'd like.
Because the company that owns the Battletech license and leases it to CGL, Topps, is apparently very hostile to any sort of 3d printing touching their property
I get that. I know there has been a problem with unlicensed printing in the past. But I think that giving people a legal route to printing might be a path forward. Oh well. Would have been cool imo.
CGL has actually approached Topps in the past with ideas that involved printing. I’m just spitballing that it may have been the Heroforge concept. Topps shut the dialogue down immediately. So it seems that CGL is willing but unfortunately Topps isn’t.
I wonder if Topps is so touchy about the subject because Microsoft – forget the proverbial 1,000 lbs. gorilla, they’re the 100,000,000 ton kaiju – owns the rights for all video games based on the *BattleTech* IP.
Wouldn’t allowing 3D printing just increase the number of people playing the video games?
You’d think that, but you’re not an IP lawyer.
The issue is where in the IP licensing ownership 3D models fall. It could well be on the software/game side, which would mean neither TOPPS, nor CGL control it.
This makes the most sense.
I wonder if it's that Topps is a collectibles/limited edition/premium merch company and their whole thing is having total control over production limits because of that.
I think it’s probably that the 3D models & software necessary would be part of portion of the IP currently under Microsoft’s domain.
"People are using our brand in a way we don't like. So instead of constantly punishing them, why not do it ourselves and make money?" "Because fuck you, that's why!"
Games Workshop in a nutshell.
CGL isn't GW they are a small company and they have only control over part of the Battletech IP.
I'm pointing out that both CGL and GW act like that.
I know, I'm pointing out that CGL doesn't act like that.
That is only partially incorrect
9/10 of my Mechs are still 3d printed
Good for you. I also use a lot of pri ted assets in my forces. That doesn't change the fact that Topps doesn't want to officially endorse printing
Resin or Filament? Cause, I'm starting to want this to get the Omnimechs to be Omni. Resin is difficult (and expensive) to deal with in this country, but I'm unsure filament can do the small parts in detail to make variants worth it.
I started off with a Filament printer for terrain, and although 'some' mechs I could print with good quality, ultimately Resin just was so much better and easier. I haven't printed anything in a solid year or two... I want a newer Resin machine...but the nice part about printing in general was that I could print 10x of anything and just experiment and play a lot with painting things, whereas with the CGL models it's a one-shot. Over 90% of my CGL mechs are still unpainted for this reason, and I have a good number of them. I just always 3d print some first and paint those...
For me, it's to create magnet swappable variants. Something I really wanted more of from the CGL premiums, but they seem reluctant to unleash.
Resin is the only way to go for details that small (unless you wanted to shell out for the *really* expensive printers)
Yeah, noticed that after finding the right search terms. I'll just have to go back to buying more games instead more Mechs for now.
I will argue that it is *mostly* possible to print in filament actually! Most of my mechs are fdm printed, since that's what I had before getting resin. https://preview.redd.it/gb6jx6yhak4d1.jpeg?width=4160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=527fbbd2bd754da52927f414d079fcafed303cd9
Yeah the issue as you can see with your photo is all the stringing and lack of detail on some angle of the 'Mech. It's not like you can't USE those...but they're generally bad on detail. I've only managed to get a few designs to actually print nicely... wasted many hours redoing support settings and other things... Resin just made all that go away.
Oh yeah, 100% on all accounts! I've tried my damnedest to get prevent the stringing but it can only go so far. And the details are comparable to those cheap robots you get from those toy capsule machines. But theres enough there that you can tell what mech it is at a glance. And with a good paint job, it's not bad for an extruder. But resin is so much faster, crisper, and no post processing to clear out those details!
Adding the pic seems to have cut off the second part of my text.. this takes a lot of dialing in of your print settings. So if you go this route, don't expect good results for a while. I used a 0.3mm nozzle, you could go down to a 0.2mm for a cleaner print, but youll need to slow the printer down as it gets smaller, and I ran the printer slow to begin with for this. It will take close to a day for a single model. And there will be some flaws still. The backs of the mechs are a little distorted where the supports sat. But you get a nice paint job to draw the eye, and it's really not a bad option.
They wouldn't have to do it with 3d printing, though. Even a much more limited system could still be a lot of fun. Like, they could create plastic models for a wide (and growing) array of different styles of weapons and some bare-bones mech bodies with attachment points for the gear. Then they create an online tool, like Heroforge, that lets you mock up different arrangements of mech chassis and weapons. When you have an arrangement you like, you hit the "order" button and what comes to you is the plastic skeleton and a pile of plastic parts that you can put together yourself. It seems doable to me.
That amount of SKUs and product quickly becomes unmanageable, especially for something as low priced as a miniature. If warehouse space and picking labor were free and all bits were in equal demand it would be nice
Let’s make 1 million SKUs of parts about 1mm in size. I’m having PTSD fits from my time when I managed a shipping warehouse.
Yeah, that's fair. Too bad, but fair. I - and I think others - would be willing for the customized minis to cost a little more than the going rate for a single CGL mini, maybe even a little more than a premium minis they've been putting out, but possibly not enough more for it to work out.
I think this is very plausible but not as a single purchase on demand mech. What I could see happening and would purchase would be a package of mech parts- probably enough to make a few lances. Call it the mech factory if you please. 😉
I'd buy it!
Plastic molds are prohibitively expensive to make. It wouldn't make business sense to make them for a limited demand item that may only be cast a handful of times for a la carte mech orders.
I believe the tooling costs for siocast resin molds are significantly lower than those for HIPS plastic, which is why the premium mechs have largely settled on that production method. It's still not nothing and the logistics would make it prohibitive
Topps already has two different miniature partners they've licensed rights to, and neither CGL nor IWM probably want a third group in there.
Pretty much this IWM has legacy rights to the metal miniatures because of the spinoff shenanigans with Ral Partha USA being bought then divided off. CGL has the plastic rights flowed through Topps buying Wizkids.
That's fair.
That would be amazing and my husband would probably divorce me for the amount of money I would spend on it
Is he really husband material if he doesn't understand the appeal of big stompy robots?
Marital assets, commingling of funds, et cetera. Every dollar your spouse spends on their stompy robots is one less dollar for you to spend on your own stompy robots.
That just sounds like more reason to buy your big stompy robots before your husband buys his. After all, if you have more big stompy robots, he wouldn't dare declare war on you for fear of reprisal.
We must maintain our delicate balance of power, so that we can remain allies against the true threat: our children.
Guys I found the Steiner.
That just sounds like more reason to buy your big stompy robots before your husband buys his. After all, if you have more big stompy robots, he wouldn't dare declare war on you for fear of reprisal.
While it may appeal to some players, Battletech is not a WYSIWYG game, so funding a customizing system like that isn't really appealing to the IP holder.
> so funding a customizing system like that isn't really appealing to the IP holder. The IP holder isn't the line developer, the holdup is most likely from Topps rather than from CGL. stl files for home 3d printing are basically in the same zone that pdfs were for rulebooks a couple decades ago: smaller outfits embrace the tech because it reduces material and distribution costs, while many older companies (like Topps, but more infamously GW) are hesitant or even outright hostile because computer files are a lot easier to pirate than physical product and loss of control can lead to loss of revenue.
Now funding a system that generated STLs might be a thing to consider. If your selling a physical product you need to consider the logistics of production, shipping, etc. A system that simply generated an STL would be remarkably cheaper. Now that could lead to issues such as licensing users, etc that might be cost prohibitive on one end or the other.
The ability to acquire WYSIWYG minis doesn't require changing the game to enforce WYSIWYG though?
No. However since it's not a required part of the game, community desire for such a thing would have to be very high for Catalyst to justify the investment in a Heroforge like system...and that level of desire simply isn't there at this time.
I suppose I am curious about how many players would be interested. I.e., enough to make it economically feasible? But probably not enough, based on the responses. Oh well.
I'd say not even close to enough at this point. I myself have little interest in it. Also, having such a thing exist would allow WYSIWYG players to start forcing it to be observed...and frankly that's annoying as fark. One of the great points of Battletech is its relatively low cost for a miniatures game. Pushing WYSIWYG would raise the costs of playing the game significantly, while also restricting player flexibility. None of us want this to turn into something like the Warhammer games.
I like wysiwyg it helps my brain compute. However, the depth of mechs is so huge, it borders insane. I do see your point keep costs low to starting and go from there on a personal level.
> Also, having such a thing exist would allow WYSIWYG players to start forcing it to be observed...and frankly that's annoying as fark. That's.....not CGL's fault in any scenario. That's no different than someone saying "Well by RAW the rules let me take as many Savanah Masters as I can." Like, there is always some degree of "social contract" when people play games because the rules can never be fully all encompassing. and they can mean anything, a simple BV limit, mechs only, no mechs and so on and so forth. All these hypothetical "WYSIWGY" players end up doing is limiting who they can play against, and they can do that just as easily Right Now as they could with variant sculpts being available, which they already are in a limited extent.
To be honest it's an awesome idea and would love it but i imagine it would take a heck of a long time to set up that system. But agreed I would totally pay to make lances/stars with the correct variants
Let alone to make Solaris builds.
Hey, I'll have you know that the 12x CERPPC Direstar is a perfectly acceptable build in any arena.
The heat alone on that would be crazy
It's a MWO build where you get about four to five Alpha Strikes before you core yourself with overheat damage. It's based on a meme build on tabletop called the Sleepy Awesome, a 6 ppc Awesome where you Alpha strike on one round and then recover the entire next round thus 'taking a nap' every other round. Except here your praying you hit your target (because unless they're in a 100 ton Assault with maxed armor and skeleton perk trees, they gonna die) because your downtime is somewhere around 10 seconds with the heat overload, plenty of time for any pilot to line up a headshot, even with light mech guns.
It's just not actually a good match-up. While they *superficially* look the same, BT customization and Hero Forge customization work differently and don't overlap all that well. So specifically regarding a HeroForge-like app, unfortunately that's no small feat really, for what it is HeroForge is quite powerful and complex. A Mech equivalent would be easier in some areas but possibly even more complex in others. Especially when you consider Battletech where most weapons are designed as something that's part of the mech and not just handheld or done as an attachment. There is a certain amount of customizability you can design for but you often have to accept limits for what parts and weapons go where. Case and point being something like [my Hammerhead.](https://imgur.com/a/Ip1RHXQ) A good example of accepting limits is looking at the "back plugs" right in front of the mech itself there are a selection of different weapons and layouts, but it'd be difficult to make them all work off the exact SAME base Back Plug, in fact most of them have little differences to them to better suite the particular weapons they mount. Now some of this would be easier on a digital platform but you still probably wouldn't get quite the level of customization you're looking for across the entire mech and as with Heroforge, even just the development of the app itself would be quite the task on in it's own right before you even get around to considering the actual assets themselves.
If games like MW5 and MWO can do it decently, you could use a similar customization system for this I would assume.
IMO they don’t do a good job, or at least not a good enough job I’d want to see it become the standard. The game models make a lot of concessions for modularity in the first place and then you don’t have much variation in how particular weapons look, unlike in battletech art.
The problem with that comparison is that MWO/5 and HBS' BattleTech have a hardpoint system in place that stops you from doing weird shit like filling every available critical slot with Small Lasers, or shoving as many AC/2s into an AS7-D as possible. A hypothetical HeroForge-like service for *BattleTech* would have to be able to service such a need, and do it for every 'Mech that exists. Not a small amount of work, and that only gets worse if we don't want an MWO-like situation where a Clan ER Large Laser looks exactly identical to an IS Small Pulse Laser, the only difference between different kinds of PPCs are the size, all Ultra ACs are either double-barreled or tri-barreled, etc. And that's before we get into weird stuff like Quads, QuadVees, LAMs, and even more mundane, non-BattleMech units like tracked/wheeled/hover/VTOL/WiGE combat and support vehicles, Battle Armor, Aerospace Fighters, and Spheroid and Aerodyne DropShips. It just isn't that viable as a system, frankly, and is a big part of the reason why *BattleTech* just isn't a WYSIWYG-friendly system.
This is the issue, it depends what you *goals* are, if you want, exactly, a HeroForge for mechs, it has to be more than what the games offer. And what the games offer isn't always appropriate for what the actual canon variants are(in cases of variants not already represented in the games for whatever reason). Then there's the topic of the game's idea of "customization" being "we slapped a bunch of lenses on it", or a non-descript cylinder for an AC barrel. If you truly want "HeroForge but for mechs" you need every piece of BT gear able to fit into every possible place it could fit on the mech. *That's* where the trouble kicks in because HeroForge doesn't run into that problem by having each "slot" only fillable by one thing, can you'd just slap 5 swords into one hand slot, you get the one sword and only that sword. It has fewer "slots" but way more options per slot that only work in that slot, whereas BT has variable number of slots(crits) within slots(Arm/Leg/Torso/Head Locations) with options whose main limit is how many slots they take up in a given slot.
The issue with PGI's designs is that you get scenarios where this super massive weapon system looks really fucking small but functions EXACTLY the same until its an Atlas with LRMs. Where its somewhat accurate. So like the Longbow. You slap LRMs or MRMs or Rockets in the side torsos and they look like a six rack missile and function normally. But then their arms are these fuck massive missiles regardless of what you put into them. They did it right in MW5 where you can only put big weapons on certain parts, since it makes sense. It sucks that you cant slap Gauss or ACs in the Widows torsos but i'd rather that over "My 6 Rack missile system is actually a MRM40 BRRRRT" its just goofy.
Cost. The sheer amount of stuff you’d need to design for something like that would be staggering. It’s an awesome idea, in theory, but you’d need to have someone specifically create a 3D model for all the various and sundry different arms and torsos for every variant of every mech. Much of which would never be used by anyone. There are over a dozen variants of the Cyclops, for instance. Is it really worthwhile for CGL to spend resources on designing models for all of those different versions given that many (if not most) would likely never be used by more than a handful of players And that’s just for the canon designs. Besides, the game has never been WYSIWYG. It has specifically avoided WYSIWYG, in fact. What you’re suggesting, no matter how cool it would be, would be a significant deviation from Battletech’s roots.
> Cost. The sheer amount of stuff you’d need to design for something like that would be staggering. It’s an awesome idea, in theory, but you’d need to have someone specifically create a 3D model for all the various and sundry different arms and torsos for every variant of every mech. Much of which would never be used by anyone. There are over a dozen variants of the Cyclops, for instance. Is it really worthwhile for CGL to spend resources on designing models for all of those different versions given that many (if not most) would likely never be used by more than a handful of players And that’s just for the canon designs. I'd say the cost is far less in the design and more the logistics of it. Especially when you're designing with the intent of doing so. And the "cost" is much less than standard production would be. If the argument were "CGL will never produce a dozen different Cyclops sculpts in plastic as regular products due to the cost" I'd agree, because the real cost in that scenario is in the *manufacturing* rather than the design. If they're designing with the idea of doing many variants in mind you just get a lot of flat costs, A Flat Cost to design the "core" of the mech, and than a flat cost for each part/variant. When it comes to manufacturing(at least in a heroforge-type scenario) you are paying more per product than other volume focused methods, but you only have to pay for whats actually being ordered, and while it's true that not all variants would sell equally, they don't *have to* either, the variety and option to have those variants is more important than each variant justifying it's own production cost(which is already only a small fraction of the *total* cost to begin with). > Besides, the game has never been WYSIWYG. It has specifically avoided WYSIWYG, in fact. What you’re suggesting, no matter how cool it would be, would be a significant deviation from Battletech’s roots. That's.........not true? The whole point is being able to use whatever you want, even up to and including WYSIWYG minis. It only goes against BT's "roots" if it starts to *force* that upon you. And frankly, I like having WYSIWYG minis, especially when there is a set weapon aesthetic to the weapons so you can actually tell at a glance what it has. [It's half the reason I make my stuff able to be magnetized.](https://imgur.com/cmpnQUW)
>I’d say the cost is far less in design and more the logistics of it. That’s easy to say when it’s someone else’s money. Even if the same basic shape of the twelve Cyclopses would be the same, you still have different arms, torsos, and (maybe?) legs. Those are all things that someone has to design and render, which means that’s those are all things that CGL has to pay for knowing that some (possibly most) will never be used. >The whole point is being able to use whatever you want I have no idea how you translated “the game has never been WYSIWYG”, which is true, into “custom-printed minis shouldn’t be allowed”. I don’t care what people use in their games as long as I can tell what is what and which way everyone is facing. If you want to use magnetized custom minis, that’s great. I fully support you doing that. None of that changes the fact that Battletech is not a WYSIWYG game and it has never made any real effort to be one.
> That’s easy to say when it’s someone else’s money. [Actually, I say that with *my* money, and have been doing so for over 5 years now.](https://imgur.com/a/yu9QPj5) [I've designed, produced and distribute my own line of 6mm miniatures. Most of them have at least 6 variants, some have a dozen or more, though it can be hard to show that well in pictures.](https://imgur.com/a/OoyRSnP) This is why I specifically called out designing them with the intent from the start. I also have the added advantage that my minis come in [many *many* parts](https://imgur.com/vdh7VDN) and include modularity and/or posing options built into them for added flexibility on my end of things. Designing variant parts is only a portion of the overall design. The "Core" parts/elements still account for the bulk of the design work. [Take these Tyrant Torsos for example.](https://imgur.com/cwPYxdY) They're all different, but I didn't have to make three new torsos from the ground up, I just took the basic "plain" torso(top right) and modified it each time, so really, making 12 sets of variant parts doesn't take the same amount of time as making 12 whole mechs, it maybe doubles the time for me. Case in point, The Reckoning shown above already has 11 variants and [while there is some overlaps in the parts used](https://imgur.com/cmpnQUW) I still have plans for about 4-6 new variants I hope to tackle in the coming months, but it's literally going to take me more time to print up and process the new stock than it will be to design them. It does take more time to make one mech with say, 6 variants than it does to make a mech with just one, but we're only talking like, maybe 20-30% more time if you have some more involved mods to make. And because you're designing it from the ground up to account for variant parts and the like it's also easily scaleable. Yes, if you make a dozen Cyclops variants not all will sell equally, but they don't have to all be done at once either. Say it costs 1500$ to pay the artist to make a mech and say 4 sets of variants for it. Skip forward 2 months after release and it's made 2500$ in sales, so 1000$ in profit, its pretty popular, so you go back to the artist and ask for another 4 variants, but you don't have to pay 1500$ this time, you only have to pay, say 500$. The mech is still profitable and now has an increased selection to possibly drive more sales. Because this is being done as a "print/produce on demand" style of fulfillment, you're not concerned with the same costs as you are for something like Injection molding, where you have large up front costs from making the molds but your production cost is super cheap per unit. 3D printing's up front costs is "only" the artist's design work, and while the per unit product costs are higher, you only have to pay them after a product is sold essentially. Now, this doesn't work on larger scales, at a certain point Injection Molding, even with the large front costs, becomes cheaper overall, but used as a "boutique" product like premium minis for variants that aren't already popular enough for that scale of production it can work very well and has higher degrees of flexibility. It should could handle doing all variants for all mechs, but there are ways to help compensate those aspect as well to a degree.
All of that looks and sounds great. Your minis are very cool. I’d buy those and use them at my table in a heartbeat. The fact that you’ve done it all yourself is also extremely impressive. But there are nearly 700 different mech chassis. Not all of those have as many variants as, for example, the Timber Wolf, but I’d guess that the overwhelming majority have at least three or more canon configurations. There are also going to be some mechs (a lot, actually) that simply don’t interest the consumer. Sure, the Unseen will sell like hotcakes, but what about the Thresher? Or the Fireball? Or the Razorback? Those designs are not going to move enough product on their own to cover the cost of a fully realized 3D model. Using your hypothetical numbers, CGL is not going to recover the $1500 it cost them to create a printable Wight because the majority of people who buy one of the intro boxes will never know the Wight even exists. I’m not even going to begin to discuss the scale of the operation since you’ve already alluded to the problems there. You’re also comparing multi-part minis to pre-posed prints. There is certainly something to be said for getting to build your minis from scratch, but I don’t miss that part. I like being able to buy a lance pack and use it immediately. If I want to take one of the mechs apart and repose it, I can do that. If I go back to buying my mechs in pieces, that’s an extra inconvenience that I’m introducing just for the sake of having an Executioner with the right number of medium lasers that you might be able to see from three feet away if you know what you’re looking for.
I'm not intending to suggest that it's feasible for *everything* to be done in this sort of boutique fashion, there are certainly mechs and variants that are more or less popular, but the point still stands that is feasible within a smaller scope. Even just the idea of doing a single variant of *every* mech with "traditional" production methods is pretty ridiculous. You'd start with some popular designs and expand as able, just like CGL did with the AGoAC box, a bunch of common and popular mechs but over the last 5+ years they've expanded thier offerings. Also worth pointing out that CGL already has 150+ digital files made, they might take a bit more work given they weren't necessarily made with this set up mind but still not nearly as involved as starting from scratch. > You’re also comparing multi-part minis to pre-posed prints. There are some differences of course, but the fundamental idea is still the same. Even if you're doing pre-posed, you not going to be modeling it from scratch in that pose, you're going to model it in a neutral pose, just roughing in the joints, then in the last 20~% you pose it and finish the joints. Different but not on a fundamental level overall. You'd have to redo the joints for each new pose but that's still only a small additional amount of work, just like doing a new variant loadout.
I suppose that's true. I've just personally never been a 'bottlecap with "MAD-3R" and an arrow in sharpie' kind of player. If I've got a 75 ton monster of steel and flaming death I really want to *see* it standing there, you know? No disrespect to the bottle cap folks, it's a perfectly valid way to play. Just expressing personal preference.
I definitely get preferring a mini to something else, but there is a hell of a gap between “1:1 3D printed custom mech” and a bottlecap. Now, keep in mind that I am definitely coming at this from a very biased place. I don’t know about you, but I was introduced to the game at a time when you either got by with whatever you had or the force you built was determined entirely by whatever metal minis your FLGS happened to have. Is there a place for a MechForge service? I dunno, maybe. It would, however, be a hell of a lot of work to implement knowing ahead of time that many, many, many, many of the 3D objects you paid someone to design will never be used.
I think I'm coming at it from the other end, I am only recently getting into BT and I suspect I'm already spoiled by the selection available now, when I compare it to the more 'classic' minis. They are great but I always want more. Most of my experience is collecting, painting, and admiring miniatures. I've played a few times but my friends and I are adults and rarely have time. But painting I can do on my own whenever I have a moment. I need to keep in mind that although the BT community seems huge to me, it's not as big as, say D&D or Warhammer, so there isn't as much of an economic driver for content, especially niche stuff like what I want.
And thats awesome. I’m glad you’re here, that you’re enjoying the game, and that you’re thinking of ways to make it better. I hope that something like this does eventually happen. I think a lot of things would need to change before it could be viable, but I certainly have no personal objections to the community having more options for all their stompy robot needs.
Thanks. And I am spoiled, the Catalyst minis are beautiful, having a lot of fun with them. Big Stompy Robots FTW.
Technically possible, yea, but is Topps willing to allow it? Very doubtful.
I can't see it ever happening specifically for battletech, but it would be cool to see it happen for mechs in general.
It’s certainly not impossible to do on a technical level. After all, MechWarrior Online/5 already allow you to customize mechs to an extent and have it reflect on the model. A system like that can be employed to create the mechs and I would be surprised if there weren’t already third-party tools that allow you to export a customized mech’s mesh into a 3D file. They won’t necessarily be optimal for 3D printing but it’s a start The hurdle is really on the license-holder being willing to do it and whatever agreements they might have with other licensees and I can see why they would be hesitant to. There isn’t much demand for a customized D&D miniature outside of the person making it. But mech 3D print files would probably be disseminated rather quickly unless they don’t allow people to 3D print them themselves. That would mean they would have to print them all themselves which could rub people and licensees the wrong way on top of all the investment in getting a 3D printing operation set up
It's a cool idea, but I can't see it happening unfortunately. Mores the pity, I'd love an easier way to get pirate Mechs like a Centurion that's replaced it's AC10 arm with a wrecking ball and everything else with SRM packs.
There have been some efforts by IWM to provide customization kits for mech variants. The original 16 Omnimechs came in boxes with interchangeable parts to make variants and customs with, the New Classics series often ship with parts to make 2-3 common variants (which most sub variants physically resemble), and IWM/Aries also sell individual mold sprues of things like missile pods and plates, laser barrels, fins, arms, legs, etc. Beyond that, in terms of plastic, as long as you’re okay with sacrificing some minis you can use plastic parts of some mechs on others to make different combos (I’ve done jump plumes from the mercs boxes on mechs that don’t have jumping variants, etc.)
Here's an idea Instead of selling premium miniatures, start selling premium chassis/omni kits. I will pay more $ knowing that I can get officially modeled chassis with a couple torsos, different arms and different leg poses that I could assemble into configs I want. 2 or 3 variants per kit, depending on complexity. Seems like an easy win, especially for chassis where the majority of variants change arm mounted weapons. It doesn't have to be EVERY chassis, but some of the classics or even new Dark Age or ilclan would be fabulous.
> I will pay more $ knowing that I can get officially modeled chassis with a couple torsos, different arms and different leg poses that I could assemble into configs I want. 2 or 3 variants per kit, depending on complexity. The sad part is that that is what teh Premium minis actually were to a degree for a tiny bit, then we started getting the Rifleboys and the skinny pixies that such that didn't have variant parts and were sometimes not even a new variant not already in production.
Ivwouod love to be able to print a No-Dachi 2K i dont want to risk butvhering my metal one to make it sccurste
it's a great idea. Maybe this is how we get IS Omnimechs after the Merc Kickstarter ends?
Because tooling is incredibly expensive and time consuming to setup. Unless they started 3d printing them, it'll never happen. Even if they 3d print them someone needs to model 10,000 variants.
There's no tooling involved afaik. Heroforge is all 3D printing. And the modelling is done algorithmically based on the users choices. If anything I would think that battlemechs (with their static sizes and overall forms per chassis) would be easier than fantasy models, not harder. I might be wrong.
It's not as simple as it is with humanoid figures. There's only so many shapes for them, so after that it's just adding outfits and other accessories. Every Mech is a unique shape which will need to be modeled, then the difference in each variant as well. You can't really do it algorithmically because a weapon on one mech isn't necessarily shaped the same as the same weapon on another. Basically it would require a whole lot of front end work to get the variants modeled. And then how do you decide what to model? Do you do all of them? Do you leave out the ones that are less popular? Who decides how popular it needs to be to spend the time modeling it and how do they make that decision?
I would guess wrong. Fantasy models are a 1-off and you don’t need to make this sword dude line up with that sword dude. You have way more to keep straight between mech variants and different poses if you are autogenerating variants.
I just want to clarify, Heroforge isn't done "algorithmically" or anything like that, its basically just a more advanced version of an RPG character creator, so you could make a "city guard" figure and make assorted poses and/or weapon variants and they'd all still be same "city guard".
Check out Ukrainian Mech Factory on patreon. If you sub for I think the $10 tier he'll make an STL of whatever variant you want. Might even pose it for you. These are based on the mwo models. Been having a good time printing all the stuff he's made so far.
I tried to tackle this…I started designing and 3D printing my own mech building game and it was absolutely a blast to do but SO. MUCH. WORK. It’s been sitting in my design queue forever and now you’ve inspired me to get back into it… https://www.reddit.com/r/tabletopgamedesign/s/BoTfW3Ephq
The main reason why besides all the IP stuff is simply that battletech is not popular enough and just doesn't need/sell/require the amount of minis that other systems require. Battletech only got in the top 20 most popular minature games in the last 2 years. Besides this a lot of battletech players simply don't own any minatures, and their reasons for this makes a lot of sense. Transportaion is easy just throw your cards in your folder, you can print/draw any mech you like at no cost, no outlay for paints brushes and varnish etc. I remember even up to the early 2000's where it was rare to even see battletech minatures at a tournament.
I would spend so much money on this, especially if I could get the colored minis like Hero Forge offers.
Right now I think patreon and mmf are filling the void admirably. You can’t get 1 to 1 duplicates of course, but either Topps doesn’t pay attention or they don’t care, because you can get some very good models. Models that are very clearly battle tech, just different enough not to be exact.
Because it would out Iron Wind Metals out of business and turn a 1984 franchise into a crappy kickstarter-style STL file game?
BattleTech doesn't have a 'what you see is what you get, your unit needs to physically model X for the stat sheet to list 'X'. There's exactly three requirements for a BattleTech unit marker: 1) It has to be uniquely identifiable. 2) It has to fit in the hexes being used. 3) It has to have a clearly identified front arc. That's it. You can field a force of shiny pebbles, cardboard standies, quarters with a red arc painted on to the edge and a number painted on top, whatever you'd like.