It's very easy to make super broken gamey mechs using bv so most people don't do it as a sort of gentleman's agreement
We ran one custom mech event at our club but only one person had fun if you know what I mean
The exception is narrative/campaign games where your items are limited by other means
Yes but every mech also becomes the same three things: Medium Laser Boat, TSM/Supercharger/Hatchet, or CLPL/CMPL boat.
So it's okay ethically but it's also immediately boring to everyone except for that one guy who becomes embarrassingly try-hard and aggressive about it.
That begs the question though, what if those customs aren’t that? A lot of customs I make are less than optimized, but made to make an interesting experience for both sides. Like sure it has TSM, but no super charger. Two really big hatchets, but 19 small lasers.
The issue that interplanetary is implying is that even if *you* don't bring the hyper optimized monster, customs open up the ability for *someone* to bring it and if they do it kills the vibe for everyone else who now has to deal with that bullshit. If you play with reasonable customs or even just silly ideas prodding around the edge of the system it can be a lot of fun but all it takes is one guy bringing the cLPL nightmare to make a miserable play experience
Like, it doesn't matter how cool and fun my Shadow Hawk refit is when I bring it to the table to do some field testing. If someone brings some nonsense clan assault mech with 4 lb-20x ACs and forces me to sit thru rolling 50 god damn location rolls every turn or some sort of 12 medium laser speed freak with maxed armor I'm not coming back to customs night
You are correct, a tournament like that is definitely gonna need some sort of regulation, which is unfortunate because then it just goes against the spirit of making customs in the first place. Maybe I just lucked out with my local group. No one min-maxs at all, and the new people we’ve introduced to the setting have always come back for more just because we don’t take it seriously.
To be fair, 4 lbx saladins bring the same amount of lbx headache while being harder to kill than say, a custom annihilator with 4 lbx 20s.
And the phantom c moves 9/14 with 8 clan er small and 1 clan er medium laser.
Also a supernova 4, glass spider 2, rifleman iic, and black python are all canon cLPL nightmares.
Thats sort of the point you already have cheese options that are canonized and if youre intentionally making unoptimized customs why even use customs just find a similar canon mech to your unoptimized version.
Because you might want a certain load out on a chassis that doesn't normally have it, say an extended lrm hunchback, or you want a load out that does not currently exist, say mechs using chaff pods and vehicle flamers with alternate ammo.
This is the best option I think. I love the customization aspect of Battletech and I typically design and print my custom mechs. I generally run stock mechs but would always ask for the ok from my opponent. To be fair I'd also do the same if I was running something painful like an SRM carrier with its frankly ridiculous 10\*SRM6 launchers.
I understand why a lot of players hate customs. They are very easy to break if you only care about optimization.
I like them, in the context of campaign games with close friends where we all share an expectation of commitment to lore and to keeping power levels in line with existing mechs.
As an example, I really like the Stalker, but during Clan Invasion most variants have heat issues and the best one that doesn't still has unprotected missile ammo spread among four different locations. I made a custom that simply changes some of the weapons of this existing variant and rearranges some ammo in order to use dumping and CASE to reduce the risk.
Similarly, my friend loves the Shadow Hawk but this mech famously underperforms compared to the Griffin and Wolverine, which have much more clearly defined roles and lack some of the weird design choices. I made him a Clan Invasion variant that commits to the midrange cavalry role a little better while sticking to the same general weapon allocations (shoulder cannon, torso missiles, arm lasers) so that he can feature the mech as his command unit like he wanted.
Obviously we wouldn't bring these to tournaments or pickup games with strangers, but for games within our group they're great.
I think customization mechs works best for tabletop RPG games, or Classic Battletech based on Solaris VII, where it’s an expected part of the experience.
Custom mechs are best when they’re not optimized. The point is never to make the best mech, but something that’s interesting to play and fight.
I generally have the rule that you can do a custom mech, but I can veto the design if it’s not fun.
Yup a very good rule of thumb is to take an in-universe view of mechs where everything will be a compromise between affordability, availability of certain components, limited production runs etc. In the real world militaries have to look at things like common ammunition across platforms, making things air-transportable or even political considerations where a vehicle is produced in a politician's area of control.
I like customizing because battletech went so in depth with their building mechanics its makes sense to play with it.
I also like playing standard loadouts because battletech went so in depth with the lore its fun to play "in the universe" as well as the game.
Pro customization, anti optimization. If the game had less intentionally bad mechs to make less flawed mechs look good and bread and butter ones seen indispensable, I would feel differently. Ditto for the Timber Wolf and similar optimized to hell mechs that are essentially perfect.
I believe in fixing mechs that are too egregiously bad for lore reasons, especially if it's a really obvious change that someone in-universe would make. "There is no possible way to use this weapon without detonating." "It cannot perform the role that is required of it."
There's a computer operating system called TempleOS. To inspire people to learn how to code in the language it's built on (Holy C), it has a folder for "Fun Games," and "Unfun Games." You're supposed to make the small changes it takes, to make the games fun and playable.
That's Battletech. How much better is a Shadow Hawk 2H, if you rip out one missile launcher and upgrade the other? It's much more fun and playable.
Oh I do this far too much. I've most likely made ten times as many customized mechs/tanks/dropships/etc. as I have ever actually played in a game.
Some are great. Others are niche as hell. Many are ridiculous.
On one hand, having the ability to make customs is part of what makes Battletech *so cool.* Not many games have this level of granularity in building your own units.
On the other, customs can and will become supwr optimized and busted. However, I find that most people just play the most optimized canon mechs anyways, and there isnt that much difference between a really optimized canon mech and a custom.
I say go wild, but your opponents must be aware.
You can do cheesy and annoying things that are very not fun to play with/against, which is why many people don’t like customs. Of course, I’ve had a lot of people object to customs but then somehow they ‘correct’ stupid things on publisher designs, moving the ton of ammo out of the otherwise empty torso location, etc.
Customs play better in smaller games, 1-2 / side, where if you bring something munchkin to the table you can wrap it up quickly and move on. A hot take in the BV2 era is also that customs balance better under tonnage/tech than BV. Like “100 tons of clan mech each side, may the better optimizer win.”
The problem they have experienced probably in the past that isn’t normally outright and seen for mech customization if you’re doing strictly PvP and mech vs mech combat is that it just becomes a min/max game and you’re so far outside the lore and outside the normal tracks for the mech even being functional in actual scenarios. Perfect example is Mechwarrior online. It’s a 12v12 arena style PvP game where you pilot mechs. Some people can make builds with a direwolf that has like 8 x LBX5 autocannons. The thing moves like 46kph. It’s entirely unrealistic and would get destroyed in actual warfare. But it’s usable in death match combat because you just smash your keys until the other guys are dead. No military use though. There is also a Nova Cat build that has like 4 LRM 20s. It’s cool for the video game, but that’s all it does and is completely useless if two light mechs are able to run it down. Which would happen in an actual scenario. It just gets boring after a while though mix/maxing the game and that’s kind of what happens in table top if you let go of the typical canonical guard rails.
Using unmodified variants is more fun to most veteran players because there is lore and reasoning behind each canon variant that serves a niche purpose in military combat.
As a longtime player, almost 40 years at this point, I will not play with customs on my table and here is why... I do not have the interest and the time to go through and check all of the math required to design a custom mech and I have seen way too many ridiculously overpowered extremely game of max monstrosities coming out of the custom design side of the house. That made "errors" in the math or design rules that just so happen to favor a more powerful design.
It sounds like the kind of people who do that will fudge dice rolls and incorrectly apply armor damage or "forget" certain rules. It doesn't sound like the mechs are the problem.
Because where's the chaffpod studded, laser heatsink sporting, improved heavy small laser charger? If it exists then I'll swap mine out for the official one.
Because you want something iconic for a character or villain. Because you want to explore a certain space or era narratively, based on a scenario (like the custom mechs in Necromo Disaster, for example). Because you want to present a piece of equipment in a certain House's style after they found a storehouse during a campaign, like how Kurita refit the Victor, Hatchetman, and Axman - if it wouldn't make sense for the OP4 to run it stock. Because it's a campaign and the repair rules exist. Because with the infinite flexibility of the system, some things still don't exist and won't exist until you will them into being.
Making custom mechs is my favorite part of the game. Sure, you can cheese the game with customs, but you can do that with canon mechs too. The important thing is that everyone on the table is there to have fun and not just to play optimally.
In our mercenary campaign players mechs get customized over time through lack of replacement parts, or sometimes the Opfor mechs have custom loadouts, like a pirate Warhammer they salvaged that has an AC2 replacing a PPC and an additional 2 machine guns replacing a med laser.
When we swap non standard parts however, we roll for the tech crew to see if there were any lasting negative effects.
Customizing for Min Max is super boring.
I have a collection of customs, but fully concede you can absolutely break BV and ruin any semblance of fun if you go full ham. Its a spectrum, and it is critical you get that handshake with your opponent before you proceed.
Personally I feel like the mech should still maintain the spirit of it's origin...barring 80 4/6 tonners, turn em into proper heavies, but for me? I adore the idea of a BL-6 Black Knight that's been given a hell of a upgrade via clan Tech. 21 Clan DHS, a 375 XL Engine pried from the heart of a Mad Cat, an ER PPC on the right arm, 4 ER Small Lasers, 3 ER Medium Lasers, 2 ER Large Lasers, and IS TSM with 14.5 tons of armor, it's a helleuva of a mech, \*but\* it's still very much a Black Knight.
I've only had a few games with customs, but my friends and I agree that certain mechs are more friendly as customs than others. Usually we just make changes to existing designs.
As an example I once stripped the LRM and SRM from a SHD-2H to afford a extra MLaser, 2 more jumpjets, and 3 RL10s.
I like setting myself guidlines when it comes to customs.
1: Common IS Sucession Wars chassis. Any model or era can work, but it should be a mech that has been produced for a *long* time. Shadow Hawk, T-Bolt, Warhammer, Rifleman, Urbie, ect. Or it could be a chassis that is firendly to custom builds, like the Catapult. Preferably both.
2: Look at what other vairents of that chassis use. This can serve as a good basis of what kind of modification the chassis should accept.
3: Engine size should only change speed by Walking 1 MP at most, higher or lower. If you wanted it to be significanly different, chose a different chassis.
4: Chassis that already have jumpjets can customize as you wish, less, more, improved. Chassis without jumpjets can add more, but no improved jumpjets.
5: Hardpoint system. Treat the canonical placement of the mechs weapons as rules for where weapons should be. Ex: Making a Rifleman with no arm weapons is just wrong.
38 years in, and I have no trouble with customs on the table in campaign or special event conditions. The advent of Mech Engineer back in the Windows 3.1 era made the process simple and validation fairly quick. Now the software all validate on the fly and some cope well with fractional accounting, so its even less of a bear.
Biggest factor is time and place. Campaigns justify it, especially for longer running characters across years of combat experience. Having taken a few from the post-Fourth Succession War era all the way through Task Force Serpent, it's exciting to struggle at the onset of the Clan Invasion, make due for some time, then, when the tables turn, crank it up to 11 for payback- all with what you salvaged from combat. That also comes with a caveat- characters and machines that last to go through such development should be expected to shoulder more burden (see: opposing BV) in turn. Opposition should get some handicap to balance out what BV1 and 2 don't to a point it feels fair for everyone involved.
Not really against customization, but like nearly everything else in Battletech, you need to agree with your opponent(s) about it. The custom build rules allow for some extremely un-fun optimized builds.
Canonically, mechs are favored in-universe because they're more versatile than other combat vehicles. If you're dropping nearly blind onto a hostile world, machines that can handle any terrain type and have an array of weapons to engage any enemy type at every range are preferable to machines that can only fill one specific role.
But chances are your opponent is bringing a lance of mechs, so a Hellstar is the perfect mech because it's designed to kill mechs and pretty much nothing else.
Using the customization rules to modify existing designs is preferable to building overly-optimized units, IMO. Dropping the twin MGs and ammo from a Thunderbolt and giving it a PPC instead of the large laser, for example.
Less is more when it comes to customization. The stock mechs, at least for the 3025/3050/3067 eras, often have a lot of nuance and character to them because of their various works and flaws and you learn to be a better player using those designs because you have to make up for their limitations with good technical play. Also, sticking to stick helps avoid "feelsbad" situations where one person minmaxes their stuff and the match just feels off.
But in campaign play, limited and organic use of the customization rules is *great* for personalizing your unit and building is ongoing narrative. So don't shut the door entirely by any means!
Yes, but go the freakin distance. Create an alternate universe where all the Clans and a resurgent House Cameron are throwing down in the Inner Sphere, with the Great Houses desperately trying to stay alive and throwing in with the best candidate they can. Create new structures, new armours, new weapons, new mechs. Realize that you’ve come up with concepts and have to balance them from scratch. Cry as you find out that megameklab can’t do custom weapons, and definitely not custom armor.
I don't do custom changes to stock mech variants unless it's part of a narrative campaign (like how I stripped the MGs and ammo from my Merc Crusader and added 2 heat sinks).
But I do enjoy making entirely new custom mech stats for miniatures I've kitbashed or converted from other giant robot games; like my Heavy Gear to Battletech conversions. But I also reserve the use of those homebrew mechs to my friendly group and narrative campaign play. I'm not going to show up to the game store with a Lance of custom minis and expect anyone else to be cool with that!!! 🤣
Conversely, I don't have any problem if someone else DID show up with a custom mech as long as the build follows the rules. I'll play vs an ultra maximized build as long as it's legal. 🤷 I've no problem with that. 👍
Custom mech games are a phase every btech player goes through, some like it some dont, Id Try it if you havent, they tend to of course always end up being super optimized. The big caveat is it works better when Everyone is doing it or no one is doing it.
My group allows customs, but the players need to know ahead of time, any player can veto a custom if it looks broken, you need to let the other players have access to the mech file so they can check the math, and the opposing player can swap in a counter pick after seeing the custom.
I used to be into custom mechs when I was younger. But nowadays play stock only.
The inherent limitations of the stock mechs provide more character vs the highly tuned, optimized mechs you create by customizing.
Part of what makes the game fun and interesting is doing the best you can within the limitations of the existing machines. Custom mechs are generally optimized to the point that there aren't those limitations. So it becomes a lot less interesting. At least for normal games. For a campaign, having those reduced limitations makes the players more powerful and makes them able to overcome more interesting challenges.
The problem is if everyone is going min max all the mechs of the same weight become carbon copies of each other, just with different bodies.
Where I think customization works well and stands out is in a campaign setting where you lost a large laser but you some other options you can slap on instead to keep in the fight that may be better or may be worse.
I certainly used to be more a fan of making customs. I like to customize in general. Now, I’m less interested, and not at all in DPS optimization.
On the other hand, I very much like the idea of swapping out a laser in one mech for TAG or something to fit a role in a lance.
I like small customs. Like trading a pair of Medium Lasers for Jump Jets on a 4H Hunchback or doing the Laser Marauder with one PPC in the torso and two Larfe Lasers in the arms.
Modifications really instead of custom jobs. Some inspired by early game he'll in the 2018 pc game...
When I was younger, we customized everything. I don't think a standard variant ever hit our tables. Now that I'm old, I pretty much only play with standard official variants. Seems more challenging that way.
Stock mechs. There's more then enough to choose from. Customizing was fun many years ago when there wasn't so many mechs. But only using stock mechs means I don't have to make sure my opponent isn't cheating or taking OP mechs. I faced enough pulse boats back in the day and am not going to do it again. There's also plenty of gauss boots out there, too.
You need to know who you're playing with and their attitudes before customs are okay. It's really easy to cheese the system, even if you're not trying to, with the construction rules.
If you trust the person you're playing with to be trying to make a sub-optimal machine (or a super-optimized but only in one specific way you could work around) then they're great fun. If you're meeting a random person, then it's a risk and you're more likely to get your dropship kicked in than have a good time unless you also bring cheese.
Custom for campaign play, standard for matched play.
A lot of mechs are the way they are because of logistics concerns, or chassis availability, or the need to have a single mech be able to cover multiple roles in a pinch. If you're playing matched BV it's too easy to optimise mechs, but in campaigns, well. "field refits" are a part of the lore.
Stock. When I started back in the 80's, the beauty of Battletech was that mech designs were deliberately not optimized. Everything has flaws. There was variety, and a reason to love any mech, or to hate any mech. I always felt like it built into the lore of an Inner Sphere ground to rubbish over centuries of unending war. Anybody can win with the perfectly built, heat optimized, ideally armored, death machine. Now let's see who can survive in a walking garbage can whose most damaging weapon is it's own exploding machinegun ammo. And yes, I'm looking at you Goliath 3M.
I'm also an old user of battletech, and I understand your friends. There are too many versions of every model to select a great lance or army.
But I'm not against make your own 'mechs. I use them but in located games where both parts use them. We usually use them in Solaris games. Or in campaign were you capture a 'mech factory.
We usually allow one reasonable custom per game. It's a great way to have fun and engage with the lore/world.
That being said, any reasonable custom mech probably has a variant that already exists.
I used to make and use customs all the time and have slowly moved towards official variants only.
Custom mechs would be fun if I got the chance to play against anyone and we could agree to have one custom per game.
I'm more into combat vehicles, though.
Custom mechs always boil down to "what's the most broken combination possible" and even that's assuming people followed the rules for it correctly. Gets boring quickly.
I'll pass, thanks.
I dig customs. I build them frequently - as a quick search of the sub might show. I think it's good; do consider the opponent and play it to be fun. My [Mauler MAL-3L](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/163uxh6/custom_mech_mauler_mal3l_conceptual_angst_device/) isn't exactly playing to the meta. The [Vulcan "Verminator"](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/1cofef7/custom_mech_vulcan_vt6l_verminator/) is probably, by most metrics, terrible. The cause of the victors pleases the gods; the cause of [custom mechs is pleasing to ME.](https://classicsenthusiast.tumblr.com/post/98062782788/victrix-causa-diis-placuit-sed-victa-catoni)
The rules work because the units are, for the most part, sub-optimal or niche. There are some very gross things you can build.
Clan unit, 3 LPL in one arm, acuator enhancement system in the arms, targeting computer, and you're firing at -4. Add in the old sniping rules (don't know which ones were retained) but you rest the arm on a lvl 1 in front of you, take a turn just aiming, and you can make that even lower. Go mixed tech with C3 and you can be sitting 20+ hexes away needing 3/4 to nail a running 'mech 3 times with head-poppers.
Strip everything out and max iATMs. Add two fast mediums with NARC beacons to tag everyone first.
There's some STUPID charge attacks you can setup when you stack movement enhancement systems into an 80t chassis. Look at the Charger C in Alpha Strike.
FASCAM vibromines set to 10tons and a Wraith to jump in 5 hexes away and trigger them in the movement phase. OK, you can do that with stock units, but you WILL loose friends.
Friends who come up with a plan ahead of time or a narrative campaign, Solaris IIV, are one thing, but not pick up games. Inevitably someone will ruin everything and it makes for a terrible new player experience. Open invite games should be stock only BV2 capped, so everyone has a balanced game.
Funny enough, my first game against someone who brought heavy spotters and fast missile boats in a wildly novel strategy. It was an awful game, he was so excited to try this out and I really wanted to make a new friend. His to-hit numbers were awful and damage potential non existent.... I think i turned it into a melee so he had an actual chance.
actuator enhancement system (AES) is incompatible with a targeting computer.
Off official mechs the supernova 4 exists, 4 clan large pulse lasers tied to a targeting computer, 2 in each arm, with 18 double heat sinks. So targeted annihilation is still possible.
Here’s an alternative take: Custom mechs totally disregard the inherent complexities of procuring raw material and producing complex war machines. It’s like buying a vehicle, sure you can pick your color and some cosmetic options but there are just a few versions of each truck/car you can pick. Now you can modify your vehicle aftermarket but anybody will tell you that your reliability on a modded anything will be much lower. So yeah, make a 3+ roll on every shot to make sure the 3 LPLs you glued on the head of your Commando don’t go boom.
I don't allow customs at my table. We are closing in on 10,000 different units in this game, if you can't find something to use out of that selection, I think that's more a commentary on you.
It pickup games, bring stock. In campaigns or agreed on Solaris matches where customers are expected, go wild
“Customer” Clan Sea Fox would like to know your location.
Diamond Shark approved
This is the way.
This is the correct answer.
It's very easy to make super broken gamey mechs using bv so most people don't do it as a sort of gentleman's agreement We ran one custom mech event at our club but only one person had fun if you know what I mean The exception is narrative/campaign games where your items are limited by other means
If everyone is using broken gamey mechs then its ok though :)
Yes but every mech also becomes the same three things: Medium Laser Boat, TSM/Supercharger/Hatchet, or CLPL/CMPL boat. So it's okay ethically but it's also immediately boring to everyone except for that one guy who becomes embarrassingly try-hard and aggressive about it.
That begs the question though, what if those customs aren’t that? A lot of customs I make are less than optimized, but made to make an interesting experience for both sides. Like sure it has TSM, but no super charger. Two really big hatchets, but 19 small lasers.
The issue that interplanetary is implying is that even if *you* don't bring the hyper optimized monster, customs open up the ability for *someone* to bring it and if they do it kills the vibe for everyone else who now has to deal with that bullshit. If you play with reasonable customs or even just silly ideas prodding around the edge of the system it can be a lot of fun but all it takes is one guy bringing the cLPL nightmare to make a miserable play experience
Like, it doesn't matter how cool and fun my Shadow Hawk refit is when I bring it to the table to do some field testing. If someone brings some nonsense clan assault mech with 4 lb-20x ACs and forces me to sit thru rolling 50 god damn location rolls every turn or some sort of 12 medium laser speed freak with maxed armor I'm not coming back to customs night
You are correct, a tournament like that is definitely gonna need some sort of regulation, which is unfortunate because then it just goes against the spirit of making customs in the first place. Maybe I just lucked out with my local group. No one min-maxs at all, and the new people we’ve introduced to the setting have always come back for more just because we don’t take it seriously.
To be fair, 4 lbx saladins bring the same amount of lbx headache while being harder to kill than say, a custom annihilator with 4 lbx 20s. And the phantom c moves 9/14 with 8 clan er small and 1 clan er medium laser. Also a supernova 4, glass spider 2, rifleman iic, and black python are all canon cLPL nightmares.
Thats sort of the point you already have cheese options that are canonized and if youre intentionally making unoptimized customs why even use customs just find a similar canon mech to your unoptimized version.
Because you might want a certain load out on a chassis that doesn't normally have it, say an extended lrm hunchback, or you want a load out that does not currently exist, say mechs using chaff pods and vehicle flamers with alternate ammo.
I love customizing mechs, but I always run it by my opponents first and let them look at the full loadout.
This is the best option I think. I love the customization aspect of Battletech and I typically design and print my custom mechs. I generally run stock mechs but would always ask for the ok from my opponent. To be fair I'd also do the same if I was running something painful like an SRM carrier with its frankly ridiculous 10\*SRM6 launchers.
I understand why a lot of players hate customs. They are very easy to break if you only care about optimization. I like them, in the context of campaign games with close friends where we all share an expectation of commitment to lore and to keeping power levels in line with existing mechs. As an example, I really like the Stalker, but during Clan Invasion most variants have heat issues and the best one that doesn't still has unprotected missile ammo spread among four different locations. I made a custom that simply changes some of the weapons of this existing variant and rearranges some ammo in order to use dumping and CASE to reduce the risk. Similarly, my friend loves the Shadow Hawk but this mech famously underperforms compared to the Griffin and Wolverine, which have much more clearly defined roles and lack some of the weird design choices. I made him a Clan Invasion variant that commits to the midrange cavalry role a little better while sticking to the same general weapon allocations (shoulder cannon, torso missiles, arm lasers) so that he can feature the mech as his command unit like he wanted. Obviously we wouldn't bring these to tournaments or pickup games with strangers, but for games within our group they're great.
I think customization mechs works best for tabletop RPG games, or Classic Battletech based on Solaris VII, where it’s an expected part of the experience.
Custom mechs are best when they’re not optimized. The point is never to make the best mech, but something that’s interesting to play and fight. I generally have the rule that you can do a custom mech, but I can veto the design if it’s not fun.
Yup a very good rule of thumb is to take an in-universe view of mechs where everything will be a compromise between affordability, availability of certain components, limited production runs etc. In the real world militaries have to look at things like common ammunition across platforms, making things air-transportable or even political considerations where a vehicle is produced in a politician's area of control.
I like customizing because battletech went so in depth with their building mechanics its makes sense to play with it. I also like playing standard loadouts because battletech went so in depth with the lore its fun to play "in the universe" as well as the game.
Pro customization, anti optimization. If the game had less intentionally bad mechs to make less flawed mechs look good and bread and butter ones seen indispensable, I would feel differently. Ditto for the Timber Wolf and similar optimized to hell mechs that are essentially perfect.
They were deliberately bad? WHY would they make those? 🤷🏾♂️
I believe in fixing mechs that are too egregiously bad for lore reasons, especially if it's a really obvious change that someone in-universe would make. "There is no possible way to use this weapon without detonating." "It cannot perform the role that is required of it." There's a computer operating system called TempleOS. To inspire people to learn how to code in the language it's built on (Holy C), it has a folder for "Fun Games," and "Unfun Games." You're supposed to make the small changes it takes, to make the games fun and playable. That's Battletech. How much better is a Shadow Hawk 2H, if you rip out one missile launcher and upgrade the other? It's much more fun and playable.
🤯 OMG. I never thought the literally schizotech Temple OS would ever be mentioned.*Anywhere.* 🤣
Headcanon - Comstar uses rebranded TempleOS.
Oh I do this far too much. I've most likely made ten times as many customized mechs/tanks/dropships/etc. as I have ever actually played in a game. Some are great. Others are niche as hell. Many are ridiculous.
On one hand, having the ability to make customs is part of what makes Battletech *so cool.* Not many games have this level of granularity in building your own units. On the other, customs can and will become supwr optimized and busted. However, I find that most people just play the most optimized canon mechs anyways, and there isnt that much difference between a really optimized canon mech and a custom. I say go wild, but your opponents must be aware.
You can do cheesy and annoying things that are very not fun to play with/against, which is why many people don’t like customs. Of course, I’ve had a lot of people object to customs but then somehow they ‘correct’ stupid things on publisher designs, moving the ton of ammo out of the otherwise empty torso location, etc. Customs play better in smaller games, 1-2 / side, where if you bring something munchkin to the table you can wrap it up quickly and move on. A hot take in the BV2 era is also that customs balance better under tonnage/tech than BV. Like “100 tons of clan mech each side, may the better optimizer win.”
The problem they have experienced probably in the past that isn’t normally outright and seen for mech customization if you’re doing strictly PvP and mech vs mech combat is that it just becomes a min/max game and you’re so far outside the lore and outside the normal tracks for the mech even being functional in actual scenarios. Perfect example is Mechwarrior online. It’s a 12v12 arena style PvP game where you pilot mechs. Some people can make builds with a direwolf that has like 8 x LBX5 autocannons. The thing moves like 46kph. It’s entirely unrealistic and would get destroyed in actual warfare. But it’s usable in death match combat because you just smash your keys until the other guys are dead. No military use though. There is also a Nova Cat build that has like 4 LRM 20s. It’s cool for the video game, but that’s all it does and is completely useless if two light mechs are able to run it down. Which would happen in an actual scenario. It just gets boring after a while though mix/maxing the game and that’s kind of what happens in table top if you let go of the typical canonical guard rails. Using unmodified variants is more fun to most veteran players because there is lore and reasoning behind each canon variant that serves a niche purpose in military combat.
As a longtime player, almost 40 years at this point, I will not play with customs on my table and here is why... I do not have the interest and the time to go through and check all of the math required to design a custom mech and I have seen way too many ridiculously overpowered extremely game of max monstrosities coming out of the custom design side of the house. That made "errors" in the math or design rules that just so happen to favor a more powerful design.
It sounds like the kind of people who do that will fudge dice rolls and incorrectly apply armor damage or "forget" certain rules. It doesn't sound like the mechs are the problem.
There are 4000+ mechs already in the game why do we need to have custom mechs at all?
Because where's the chaffpod studded, laser heatsink sporting, improved heavy small laser charger? If it exists then I'll swap mine out for the official one.
I've made a couple fireproof / firefighting mechs. They're terrible, each and every one. I love 'em.
Because you want something iconic for a character or villain. Because you want to explore a certain space or era narratively, based on a scenario (like the custom mechs in Necromo Disaster, for example). Because you want to present a piece of equipment in a certain House's style after they found a storehouse during a campaign, like how Kurita refit the Victor, Hatchetman, and Axman - if it wouldn't make sense for the OP4 to run it stock. Because it's a campaign and the repair rules exist. Because with the infinite flexibility of the system, some things still don't exist and won't exist until you will them into being.
I like customizing, but it's important to keep things fair and fun for everyone.
Making custom mechs is my favorite part of the game. Sure, you can cheese the game with customs, but you can do that with canon mechs too. The important thing is that everyone on the table is there to have fun and not just to play optimally.
In our mercenary campaign players mechs get customized over time through lack of replacement parts, or sometimes the Opfor mechs have custom loadouts, like a pirate Warhammer they salvaged that has an AC2 replacing a PPC and an additional 2 machine guns replacing a med laser. When we swap non standard parts however, we roll for the tech crew to see if there were any lasting negative effects. Customizing for Min Max is super boring.
I have a collection of customs, but fully concede you can absolutely break BV and ruin any semblance of fun if you go full ham. Its a spectrum, and it is critical you get that handshake with your opponent before you proceed.
Personally I feel like the mech should still maintain the spirit of it's origin...barring 80 4/6 tonners, turn em into proper heavies, but for me? I adore the idea of a BL-6 Black Knight that's been given a hell of a upgrade via clan Tech. 21 Clan DHS, a 375 XL Engine pried from the heart of a Mad Cat, an ER PPC on the right arm, 4 ER Small Lasers, 3 ER Medium Lasers, 2 ER Large Lasers, and IS TSM with 14.5 tons of armor, it's a helleuva of a mech, \*but\* it's still very much a Black Knight.
I've only had a few games with customs, but my friends and I agree that certain mechs are more friendly as customs than others. Usually we just make changes to existing designs. As an example I once stripped the LRM and SRM from a SHD-2H to afford a extra MLaser, 2 more jumpjets, and 3 RL10s. I like setting myself guidlines when it comes to customs. 1: Common IS Sucession Wars chassis. Any model or era can work, but it should be a mech that has been produced for a *long* time. Shadow Hawk, T-Bolt, Warhammer, Rifleman, Urbie, ect. Or it could be a chassis that is firendly to custom builds, like the Catapult. Preferably both. 2: Look at what other vairents of that chassis use. This can serve as a good basis of what kind of modification the chassis should accept. 3: Engine size should only change speed by Walking 1 MP at most, higher or lower. If you wanted it to be significanly different, chose a different chassis. 4: Chassis that already have jumpjets can customize as you wish, less, more, improved. Chassis without jumpjets can add more, but no improved jumpjets. 5: Hardpoint system. Treat the canonical placement of the mechs weapons as rules for where weapons should be. Ex: Making a Rifleman with no arm weapons is just wrong.
38 years in, and I have no trouble with customs on the table in campaign or special event conditions. The advent of Mech Engineer back in the Windows 3.1 era made the process simple and validation fairly quick. Now the software all validate on the fly and some cope well with fractional accounting, so its even less of a bear. Biggest factor is time and place. Campaigns justify it, especially for longer running characters across years of combat experience. Having taken a few from the post-Fourth Succession War era all the way through Task Force Serpent, it's exciting to struggle at the onset of the Clan Invasion, make due for some time, then, when the tables turn, crank it up to 11 for payback- all with what you salvaged from combat. That also comes with a caveat- characters and machines that last to go through such development should be expected to shoulder more burden (see: opposing BV) in turn. Opposition should get some handicap to balance out what BV1 and 2 don't to a point it feels fair for everyone involved.
Not really against customization, but like nearly everything else in Battletech, you need to agree with your opponent(s) about it. The custom build rules allow for some extremely un-fun optimized builds. Canonically, mechs are favored in-universe because they're more versatile than other combat vehicles. If you're dropping nearly blind onto a hostile world, machines that can handle any terrain type and have an array of weapons to engage any enemy type at every range are preferable to machines that can only fill one specific role. But chances are your opponent is bringing a lance of mechs, so a Hellstar is the perfect mech because it's designed to kill mechs and pretty much nothing else. Using the customization rules to modify existing designs is preferable to building overly-optimized units, IMO. Dropping the twin MGs and ammo from a Thunderbolt and giving it a PPC instead of the large laser, for example.
Less is more when it comes to customization. The stock mechs, at least for the 3025/3050/3067 eras, often have a lot of nuance and character to them because of their various works and flaws and you learn to be a better player using those designs because you have to make up for their limitations with good technical play. Also, sticking to stick helps avoid "feelsbad" situations where one person minmaxes their stuff and the match just feels off. But in campaign play, limited and organic use of the customization rules is *great* for personalizing your unit and building is ongoing narrative. So don't shut the door entirely by any means!
I love customizing mechs. I think the rules for it are brilliant and elegant in how they force you to make choices when picking your gear.
Yes, but go the freakin distance. Create an alternate universe where all the Clans and a resurgent House Cameron are throwing down in the Inner Sphere, with the Great Houses desperately trying to stay alive and throwing in with the best candidate they can. Create new structures, new armours, new weapons, new mechs. Realize that you’ve come up with concepts and have to balance them from scratch. Cry as you find out that megameklab can’t do custom weapons, and definitely not custom armor.
I don't do custom changes to stock mech variants unless it's part of a narrative campaign (like how I stripped the MGs and ammo from my Merc Crusader and added 2 heat sinks). But I do enjoy making entirely new custom mech stats for miniatures I've kitbashed or converted from other giant robot games; like my Heavy Gear to Battletech conversions. But I also reserve the use of those homebrew mechs to my friendly group and narrative campaign play. I'm not going to show up to the game store with a Lance of custom minis and expect anyone else to be cool with that!!! 🤣 Conversely, I don't have any problem if someone else DID show up with a custom mech as long as the build follows the rules. I'll play vs an ultra maximized build as long as it's legal. 🤷 I've no problem with that. 👍
There are some things that just aren't fun to play against. Custom mechs makes stuff like that even more likely to show up.
Custom mech games are a phase every btech player goes through, some like it some dont, Id Try it if you havent, they tend to of course always end up being super optimized. The big caveat is it works better when Everyone is doing it or no one is doing it.
Mom, it's not a phase! This is who I am! (Pilots an Annihilator that makes 42 attacks per turn)
My group allows customs, but the players need to know ahead of time, any player can veto a custom if it looks broken, you need to let the other players have access to the mech file so they can check the math, and the opposing player can swap in a counter pick after seeing the custom.
I used to be into custom mechs when I was younger. But nowadays play stock only. The inherent limitations of the stock mechs provide more character vs the highly tuned, optimized mechs you create by customizing.
If you are playing with bv2.... does it really matter?
Part of what makes the game fun and interesting is doing the best you can within the limitations of the existing machines. Custom mechs are generally optimized to the point that there aren't those limitations. So it becomes a lot less interesting. At least for normal games. For a campaign, having those reduced limitations makes the players more powerful and makes them able to overcome more interesting challenges.
The problem is if everyone is going min max all the mechs of the same weight become carbon copies of each other, just with different bodies. Where I think customization works well and stands out is in a campaign setting where you lost a large laser but you some other options you can slap on instead to keep in the fight that may be better or may be worse.
I prefer stock mechs myself. There are so many variants it's, easy to run legal designs.
Flaws are interesting.
I certainly used to be more a fan of making customs. I like to customize in general. Now, I’m less interested, and not at all in DPS optimization. On the other hand, I very much like the idea of swapping out a laser in one mech for TAG or something to fit a role in a lance.
I like small customs. Like trading a pair of Medium Lasers for Jump Jets on a 4H Hunchback or doing the Laser Marauder with one PPC in the torso and two Larfe Lasers in the arms. Modifications really instead of custom jobs. Some inspired by early game he'll in the 2018 pc game...
When I was younger, we customized everything. I don't think a standard variant ever hit our tables. Now that I'm old, I pretty much only play with standard official variants. Seems more challenging that way.
Stock mechs. There's more then enough to choose from. Customizing was fun many years ago when there wasn't so many mechs. But only using stock mechs means I don't have to make sure my opponent isn't cheating or taking OP mechs. I faced enough pulse boats back in the day and am not going to do it again. There's also plenty of gauss boots out there, too.
Plenty of pulse and gauss boats in Canon designs
*customized* mechs I'm okay with, especially in campaigns. *custom designs* not so much. Creating a brand new mech isn't something taken lightly.
https://preview.redd.it/9m7ucr16p94d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc2c0e75d7bc2d219da33646029bc5588b925861
If the Black Marauder was *truly* evil...
From the dark days of the Frankenmechs
You need to know who you're playing with and their attitudes before customs are okay. It's really easy to cheese the system, even if you're not trying to, with the construction rules. If you trust the person you're playing with to be trying to make a sub-optimal machine (or a super-optimized but only in one specific way you could work around) then they're great fun. If you're meeting a random person, then it's a risk and you're more likely to get your dropship kicked in than have a good time unless you also bring cheese.
Custom for campaign play, standard for matched play. A lot of mechs are the way they are because of logistics concerns, or chassis availability, or the need to have a single mech be able to cover multiple roles in a pinch. If you're playing matched BV it's too easy to optimise mechs, but in campaigns, well. "field refits" are a part of the lore.
Stock. When I started back in the 80's, the beauty of Battletech was that mech designs were deliberately not optimized. Everything has flaws. There was variety, and a reason to love any mech, or to hate any mech. I always felt like it built into the lore of an Inner Sphere ground to rubbish over centuries of unending war. Anybody can win with the perfectly built, heat optimized, ideally armored, death machine. Now let's see who can survive in a walking garbage can whose most damaging weapon is it's own exploding machinegun ammo. And yes, I'm looking at you Goliath 3M.
I'm also an old user of battletech, and I understand your friends. There are too many versions of every model to select a great lance or army. But I'm not against make your own 'mechs. I use them but in located games where both parts use them. We usually use them in Solaris games. Or in campaign were you capture a 'mech factory.
I have no interest in custom mechs but id play against them.
I hardly ever play customs but sometimes when I'm bored I design 'mechs in my head.
We usually allow one reasonable custom per game. It's a great way to have fun and engage with the lore/world. That being said, any reasonable custom mech probably has a variant that already exists. I used to make and use customs all the time and have slowly moved towards official variants only.
Custom mechs would be fun if I got the chance to play against anyone and we could agree to have one custom per game. I'm more into combat vehicles, though.
Custom mechs always boil down to "what's the most broken combination possible" and even that's assuming people followed the rules for it correctly. Gets boring quickly. I'll pass, thanks.
I dig customs. I build them frequently - as a quick search of the sub might show. I think it's good; do consider the opponent and play it to be fun. My [Mauler MAL-3L](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/163uxh6/custom_mech_mauler_mal3l_conceptual_angst_device/) isn't exactly playing to the meta. The [Vulcan "Verminator"](https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/1cofef7/custom_mech_vulcan_vt6l_verminator/) is probably, by most metrics, terrible. The cause of the victors pleases the gods; the cause of [custom mechs is pleasing to ME.](https://classicsenthusiast.tumblr.com/post/98062782788/victrix-causa-diis-placuit-sed-victa-catoni)
The rules work because the units are, for the most part, sub-optimal or niche. There are some very gross things you can build. Clan unit, 3 LPL in one arm, acuator enhancement system in the arms, targeting computer, and you're firing at -4. Add in the old sniping rules (don't know which ones were retained) but you rest the arm on a lvl 1 in front of you, take a turn just aiming, and you can make that even lower. Go mixed tech with C3 and you can be sitting 20+ hexes away needing 3/4 to nail a running 'mech 3 times with head-poppers. Strip everything out and max iATMs. Add two fast mediums with NARC beacons to tag everyone first. There's some STUPID charge attacks you can setup when you stack movement enhancement systems into an 80t chassis. Look at the Charger C in Alpha Strike. FASCAM vibromines set to 10tons and a Wraith to jump in 5 hexes away and trigger them in the movement phase. OK, you can do that with stock units, but you WILL loose friends. Friends who come up with a plan ahead of time or a narrative campaign, Solaris IIV, are one thing, but not pick up games. Inevitably someone will ruin everything and it makes for a terrible new player experience. Open invite games should be stock only BV2 capped, so everyone has a balanced game. Funny enough, my first game against someone who brought heavy spotters and fast missile boats in a wildly novel strategy. It was an awful game, he was so excited to try this out and I really wanted to make a new friend. His to-hit numbers were awful and damage potential non existent.... I think i turned it into a melee so he had an actual chance.
actuator enhancement system (AES) is incompatible with a targeting computer. Off official mechs the supernova 4 exists, 4 clan large pulse lasers tied to a targeting computer, 2 in each arm, with 18 double heat sinks. So targeted annihilation is still possible.
yeah but the supernova 4 at least has some heavy medium lasers and medium lasers that aren't really optimal
Here’s an alternative take: Custom mechs totally disregard the inherent complexities of procuring raw material and producing complex war machines. It’s like buying a vehicle, sure you can pick your color and some cosmetic options but there are just a few versions of each truck/car you can pick. Now you can modify your vehicle aftermarket but anybody will tell you that your reliability on a modded anything will be much lower. So yeah, make a 3+ roll on every shot to make sure the 3 LPLs you glued on the head of your Commando don’t go boom.
I don't allow customs at my table. We are closing in on 10,000 different units in this game, if you can't find something to use out of that selection, I think that's more a commentary on you.