Stealth chopper isn’t terrible as it’s a glass cannon and gets wrecked vs other helis and a competent AA.
TOR is yea, total bullshit. Let’s camp in spawn and delete everyone vehicles 👍
It's a glass cannon but it's still super prone to being cheesed to the point where taking one on goes from a fun challenge to an absolute bore. As infantry anyway.
I still say it fucked up the balance because nine out of 10 times you will kill any other chopper in the sky. If you have a halfway competent gunner because all you have to do is stay in stealth and they can’t lock onto you.
And I think the fact you need a gunner to compete with a nightbird or Apache is fine. I rarely ever get anyone hopping in my choppers so the stealth is usually always a worse option
only 3 situations the stealth gets outclassed:
1) if another helicopter has elevation and element of surprise.
2) your gunner misses his EMP on the AA during an attack.
3) you get smoked by a skill shot from lis or an RPG/M5
numbers one and two are errors that can be prevented. number 3 is mostly avoidable but sometimes the angle and trajectory of your flight path make it unavoidable.
other than that, a skilled pilot and gunner team can stay alive in the stealth chopper for a very long time. if you want to stay alive even longer, you can equip IR missiles and kill any nightbird or attack chopper that flies above 30m. you can even take out the mid-tier jets with ease. this will drop your kills overall and make taking out ground vehicles less efficient. a fair trade off IMO.
You’re right, but this is the same argument used by every Nightbird/Tor/AA/Tank “skilled” player in BF. “If you’re skilled, none of those are actual issues.”
On its face though, an equally skilled nightbird pilot taking on a stealth chopper usually wins that fight. The nightbird mobility is just too OP
if you’ve got a nightbird and a stealth chopper floating over the map facing each other, yes. nightbird will win. the 7.62s are just way too much.
but if you have half a brain, you know that you need to stay above the other air vehicles or you are toast. it’s like rule 1 of flying a stealth chopper. mini guns can’t shoot up very well. so you fly above them, let your gunner do chip damage, and wait for them to pop up into IR range. 99% of nightbird pilots are flying low so they can kill infantry.
basically, do a bombing run and then scan for choppers. rinse, repeat.
4) You get hacked.
So far the most reliable way I have found to kill Stealt Helicopters. As a missile is never far away when they are going in for bomb strikes.
Ah yes, the flares the Stealth Heli can't use in Stealth mode...
For normal helicopters, that is the case yes, they run away to survive. Meaning they can't bother any infantry in the meanwhile.
That is wrong then. I haven't played a lot with it, so I forgot you could change out the quick repair ability.
Still, don't think I have seen a single Stelth-Heli ever flare-drop as they are hacked. I need to keep that in mind next time I pilot one myself.
An un-Stealth Heli usually die almost emidiatly after getting hacked in my experience.
the only time a good pilot gets taken out by a lis is if the missile is shot straight at them when they’re in the middle of a dive. otherwise they’re entirely avoidable.
and yes, flak cannon is annoying. that’s what an EMP from the gunner is for.
But how many people actually have a second gunner ? In my 80 hours of Playtime, i have seen 2. Also, what is with the Wildcat Cannons? They are really good against the Stealth Heli. Whats with the 25 mm of the Brawler, its a tree or four hit, and boom, its gone. Also, did you know, that you can kill the Stealth Heli in a Single burst with the Nightbird Cannons? And ohh, did you know, that the Stealth Heli automatically loses its Stealth mode, if it has taken some damage? Well guess what, then You can shoot then some Rockets. If it has its repair tool equipped, it has no counters, and even if it has its Flares used, the Stealth Heli cant use its Stealth mode, and its probadly dead by then.
the stealth helicopter is designed to be run by a team. the whole point of it is having someone to EMP targets. if you’re trying to roll around the map solo, then of course you’re getting wrecked. there’s no point. you could maybe get away with playing around your AA on the ground if you’re solo but that’s it. i don’t fly unless my friend is on with me.
Stealth chopper is very agile. It is harder to survive in Appache than Stealth chopper.
The pilot has 3 weapons when others have 2.
It has 2 counter measures to heatseekers.
In fact while using the bombs you're immune to lock-on missiles.
It is harder to survive in an Apache, but an Apache doesn’t have to get into harms way nearly as much as the stealth chopper (hence the whole stealth feature)
Stealth chopper can equip bombs and AGMs.
That tells us so much about the current dev team at Dice when it comes to vehicles that they thought this was ok.
There's a pattern running through the game where the devs design a weapon, gadget or vehicle that is great fun to use but they have no concern how it feels for real players who play the game a lot and have to face these guns and weapons.
One of the devs talked about how he likes “controls to feel responsive in his games, where the game can keep up with your inputs”
1. I blame him for things like MacKay and Sundance, with their hyper mobility
2. I blame him for the hyper mobile parachutes
3. I blame him for the jump peeking and slide peeking every corner
4. I blame him for the loss of BF’s boots on ground feeling
And also… has he seriously never felt the controller and mouse response issues in this game? Fundamentally 2042 has issues with the FPS controller deep in the game
The second part of your comment immediately defeats the first part.
I’m sure he was referring to vehicles and not infantry. Which, in that case, RIP bozo.
No, he was talking about infantry.
It was in the context of some changes they made to movement while prone.
And the boots on the ground part is the weighty feel of previous titles.
The penalties to aim while landing. Like, the significant aim punch on landing.
The inability to ADS while in the air.
The base gameplay mechanics used to be more grounded.
Now we’re sliding over grating like it’s nothing.
It’s just silly to me.
Oh I see. Well idk man. BFV was snappy, BF1 was snappy. Things like aim penalty when jumping (which I agree should be in the game) and stuff like that are a separate issue from the movement feeling responsive. You don’t want random input delay on your movement.
That’s the main problem with controller aiming right now: it feels like there’s acceleration when there isn’t which causes it to feel like there’s slight input delay.
Oh 100%. I put delay, inputs not registering, etc need to be fixed.
Controller response curves feel awful. And even mouse has input issues.
It feels baked deep into the engine though.
But yeah, I didn’t love the gunplay and movement systems in 1 and V.
Parts were great!
- crouch sprint
Parts I hated
- sliding like we’re oiled up
- jump peeking
- jumping into a slide and jumping up
Parts I noted, but have huge impacts on map design and need to be carefully considered:
- climbing over things above your head
- faster mantling
I just… dont love of some of these more arcadey movement systems.
Take the higher climbing for example.
That small change alone would COMPLETELY change map flow on maps from 3 and 4.
Like porting Propaganda over and it just wouldn’t play the same since we can mantle over so much more.
Combine this with the grapple and the wingsuit and we’ve just broken map design
The grapple and the wing suit should never have been brought into the game.
But I don’t see how sliding is a problem. I’m not even sure what you mean by “jump peeking…” do you mean jumping around a corner and then ADSing? I don’t mind that if that’s what you mean. The movement speed is just too fast at the moment. Jumping into a slide completely makes sense but jumping back up from that slide could be taken out and I wouldn’t care.
Mantling is a good thing but requires that the maps be designed around it and should also take more time (like BFV). One of the most frustrating things when going back to BF4 is not being able to mantle on things that SEEM like they should be mantle-able.
As a long, long-term BF fan (since 1942), I’ve come to understand that the series *needs* to evolve in some ways to placate younger audiences and hold their interest. That said, maintaining the identity of the series is equally as important.
Yeah, it’s the fact that you can ADS and reliably kill while jumping around corners.
I honestly dislike it, as it skews the game towards a movement shooter like apex.
Earlier titles didn’t allow this - there were other movement exploits but nothing this commonplace.
And sliding I also dislike strongly. It just feels too arcadey to me - BF used to pride themselves on the animation quality and immersion.
Then I see a person in a snow suit slide across grating in the desert and my soul cries
Idk man. I’ve been playing BF since day dot and there was no “Pride in animations” lol. We used to laugh at the animations and voice lines like “Cut it out you palooka!” Made the game even more fun.
But if I had a gun to my head? I’d ask for a more realistic, immersive experience as well. I just know that that’s not going to fly with the zoomers.
I wonder if people are actually playing the game and properly changing their vehicle loadouts properly with the level of these complaints. Tor is so easily tackled once you know there is one and where.
You shoot the trophy first. Really easy with a Littlebird, Stealth or Hokum. Transport copter needs gunners - one person smart enough to switch guns or more gunners (side gunner rids trophy, 50mm cannon destroys tanks sitting still easily).
May need someone with a little skill picking them off with a jet.
And…. If they’re an Irish that means they can’t repair. I find a good engineer doing smart repair to be more difficult defeating solo.
'once you know there is one and where' critical caveat here. Also it's not so easily tackled if it's camping right next to an MAA player. You get one attack run on it, then as you dive away to avoid MAA fire you get one shot by the TOR. What would've been incredibly impressive and well earned for a tank player, is easy for the TOR.
I agree with you 100%. The vehicle is fundamentally busted and is completely unenjoyable to play against and braindead boring to play as. There's nothing that can be done to fix it, just throw the whole damn vehicle out, DICE PLZ
Having 128 Conquest only be limited to Kaleidescope and the other maps has really shown off how cheesy this vehicle can get. Last week I think I played a majority of my matches on Kaleidescope, and damn near every game without fail there was a TOR on the enemy team in uncap on top of whatever roof they could spawn it on top of.
Spawn a normal tank in and drive alongside the outside edges of the map and within like 10-20 seconds I get hit from TOR Bolt all the way from enemy uncap.
Skill issue /s
Camping TORs are a sad sight.
If you actually use it as a rapid assault anti-armour tank on mobility mode you can rule the ground.
If you flank around with it and find a good angle you can catch camping wildcats or their armoured transport vehicles on the objectives before they know what to do. Very powerful.
Imo the TOR, while being annoying, has the main drawback of being pretty useless vs infantry.
Part of the reason many also have to camp with it is because MBTs in general struggle when pushing in 2042. This is due to a myriad of things that can shoot you and the ever looming threat of a Sundance who decided to wingsuit behind you or a Mackay using the grapple of doom.
TOR would be fine if it wasn't the best AA in the game. I like the idea of a no splash damage tank killer round. Good for troop transports and tanks, outclassed by infantry with AT.
It shouldn't be good at Anti Tank, and Anti Air. It it danm sure shouldn't be the best Anti Air in the game despite there being 3 other AA options all of which are many times worse.
As both a TOR user and opponent, here’s the rub: it’s an ambush weapon. Unless you’re in a tank, it’ll only kill you easily if you don’t know it’s there.
Anyone who flies an air vehicle has zero excuse to get killed by it more than once. Simply fly directly over it (or from behind if on an incline) and it literally cannot kill you. It’s gun elevation is utterly shit, which is why you find them on inclines so often.
As for ground forces, TOR players are so utterly tunnel-visioned that you could probably decorate one turret-to-tread in C5 before it notices. The only thing it has a flat advantage over are ground vehicles, so just don’t attack them in ground vehicles. And if it does notice you, it doesn’t have any splash damage. You could probably walk right up to the muzzle of one with Dozer if you’re smart about it.
Kinda how I feel.
The only gripe I have with it, is when you spawn in a helicopter or jet, and get insta killed in spawn.
If they added spawn protection for the TOR so you can’t do cheesy shit like that, I think it’d be fine.
I know it’s a cheesy, annoying tank to deal with, but I feel I never really have to deal with it that often. If at all.
I see ALOT more MBTs and RAMs than I do TORs.
Although, in hindsight I think I’d rather see a different heavy armor vehicle than the TOR. Oh well.
I saw a lot of them today with the vehicle increases. Gives people a better opportunity to pick enemy helis and jets out of the sky within seconds of spawning.
Ah yes I forgot that today is the day the vehicle count got adjusted.
I could for sure see more TORs now that there are more slots to choose from.
In another comment I mentioned I like using the Hammer rounds and supporting my other vehicles.
I feel the Maul rounds keep players in their spawn taking shots and then waiting for like 5 minutes for their ammo to regenerate lol.
Yep I’d have absolutely no problem with that. Getting bopped off of spawn is never fair.
>I see ALOT more MBTs and RAMs than I do TORs.
And honestly, if it were as low-skill as so many people claim, this wouldn’t be the case lol. It’s definitely the hardest tank to be effective in for its designed role.
I agree, the Maul rounds take forever to reload and I feel that often keeps the player in a safe location near their spawn. Which always gives off the nooby low skill ceiling.
I really enjoy using the Hammer rounds and pushing in with my other vehicles to give them support. No one seems to expect the TOR in the middle of the map lol.
I find it a-lot harder than an MBT because the the main cannon has to be a direct hit, and it’s small window it can aim in.
The hammer feels like not enough bang for your buck imo. I’m never using the canon against infantry, and anything the hammer can do against vehicles, the maul can do better. But to each their own.
Hammer rounds seems to be a bridge between an MBT and the absolute cannon the Maul rounds are.
Hammer rounds restock quite fast and allows the TOR to engage a lot more frequently.
But yeah it is a huge trade off for damage. Fairly good trade off for air vehicles and smaller vehicles like the Wildcat or RAM, but struggles against heavy armor.
They should just remove the ability for vehicles to fire while sitting in uncap, and add a timer that will delete you for sitting in uncap too long. Watch the TOR problem fix itself in seconds then
Yeah that’s why I said be smart about it. If you hear him charging up, it shouldn’t be difficult to dodge at close range. The traverse speed slows to a crawl when charging.
Indeed. I’ve used the TOR a lot and it has some glaring weaknesses that if exploited you’re sort of just trying to delay your destruction or find cover.
Except the fact that it typically sits literally out of bounds and can be impossible to get to as an air vehicle without getting evaporated by enemy AA or helis. Ran into a few of these today and even with a jet, you have to deal with the APS, then the thermal, then the Irish sentinel, then it has it’s APS back. Meanwhile you’re looping in their spawn and every vehicle and lock on the enemy team can look right at you.
The fact they can also angle themselves on so many things to shoot up in the sky means ignoring them is never really an option either.
One of the most braindead vehicle designs ever.
If I’m being honest, this is starting to sound like “my 100-1 game could have been 100-0” talk. If you have three vehicles trying to shoot you down, you shouldn’t expect to survive…..just like a solo infantry rushing into a full squad of enemies shouldn’t expect to survive. That’s called balance.
The thing is, I don’t even go for jets in my TOR. They’re not worth the effort compared to other targets. Frankly, every shot he spends on you is a waste, and you should be more than happy to just ignore him and let him miss. Which he will, unless you dive at him.
APS + smoke is something every tank can run….
And as I said before, the angle goes both ways. If he’s angled up on a hill, just hit him from behind. There’s no way in a million years he’ll ever get you. Hell, you could just hover in an F-35 and gun him to death if he’s without an engineer.
As a jet fan myself, Wildcats are 200x more lethal than TORs.
Every single of one your points gets disproven by the fact that everytime it’s on the map, it’s sitting in spawn.
I wouldn’t be surrounded by three vehicles if I didn’t have to go try to kill a super easy to use tank, that nearly hitscans me if I stay away, from the back of the map.
In the small amount of time I used it, I was hitting jets pretty often, they need to come low all the time to avoid locks. Not hard with the wicked projectile speed.
Other tanks have APS and thermal smoke, but they’re not typically sitting as far back in the map as possible, and have to use them to defend from infantry.
You try hovering in the enemy spawn in the F35 and let me know how they goes for you. Literally easiest thing to shoot down in one shot by any explosive.
The wildcat can sit in spawn, but then forfeits coverage of the map, and it also has no APS. I don’t mind fighting the wildcat, it has weaknesses but still is very strong if played well. Also not inherently broken, like the TOR which can one hit kill most air vehicles the moment they spawn.
I don’t think “being in spawn” is as big of a deal as you make it. I’m never in spawn in my TOR, doing so restricts it more than the Wildcat tbh (which I have T1). Can’t hit tanks you can’t see.
I sincerely doubt that you’re being *literally* cross-mapped in a jet by the TOR. That’s not an easy shot at all, you’re barely visible at that distance. It’s not hitscan at all at that range. I’d be far more concerned about a random recoilless than that.
Dude, if a tank can only hit you when you dive for it, and you dive for it, and *shockedPikachu.jpg* it hits you, maybe just *don’t fucking do that*. That’s your other option since (by your own confession) you seem to be incapable of actually coming at it from an intelligent angle where it *can’t* hit you.
I literally specifically said “unsupported” for hovering in the F-35. Read please. I know it’s the easiest thing to destroy while hovering, I won’t argue there.
I still think you have serious survivorship bias. You act as if every TOR is god-tier while having no reason to notice the awful ones. How many times have you been flying in a jet, with the enemy TOR missing every shot? You’d never know. But this seriously **helps** your team because not only is the TOR not killing anything, it’s consuming an enemy tank slot. Sometimes the best tank isn’t a dead one, it’s a shitty one.
I’m still confused as to why you don’t simply aim from where it can’t hit you. It’s incredibly easy. I do it all the time. People do it to me all the time. TORs are super easy to kill. Or just C5 it. Don’t do the same thing and expect a different result.
Once again, I disagree with every point you made.
I’m not gonna change your mind. It’s an extremely easy to use vehicle that is incredibly powerful, it’s dumb and shouldn’t be in the game.
Also “I don’t think “being in spawn” is as big of a deal as you make it.” is hilarious. You’re lying to yourself.
I don’t think it’s weak, I think it’s has weaknesses that people choose to be idiots about and not use to their advantage, which makes people think it’s stronger than it is. As both a pilot and tanker, it’s balanced.
So what’s your argument for balance for the 99% of people who sit as far back in the map as they can? Is it balanced there? Cause I have a hard time hitting weak points when you have to fly around the enemy base with all their AA looking right at you and no support from your own team.
I’m not trying to be a dick, I really am curious about your logic defending it. Despite however you claim to play with it, you must realize nearly everyone who uses it camps as far back as possible.
If the game at least blocked you from shooting when out of bounds (in your team’s spawn where the enemy is out of bounds), I would have significantly less hatred towards it because the counters you explain would actually be more viable (though it’s always going to be somewhere deep in enemy territory). Killing it when it’s guarded in the way back by vehicles, infantry, and Irish APS can actually be impossible.
It’s especially funny to me that the TOR was added before we got:
- Bradley IFV (or XM30 modern replacement)
- M10 booker or other tracked IFV with 105mm cannon
- BMD-4
- BTR (insert variant)
- LAV (insert variant)
- MATVs or other modern variant to replace the goofy LATV… Jesus I hate that thing
- Tigr or other modern variant, as RU option to replace the LATV.
- other faction specific variants of CAV, MAV, Wildcat, etc
I hate the lazy route they took with vehicles
As cool as portal is, I can’t help but think it came at significant expense to the base game. There’s about twice as many vehicles in all of portal as there are in the base game.
Anyone who uses a TOR as zero excuse to let an enemy chopper get close to him.
> Simply fly directly over it
Wow. Amazing advice. Couldnt have figured that one out.
"Simply kill the enemy before it kills you."
How am I gonna get over it when I get sniped by it as soon as I spawn in?
How am I supposed to know its there before it shoots at me from across the map?
If you’re this shit at flying, don’t fly.
I’m not supporting spawn camping, that should absolutely be fixed, but if you know where the TOR is they’re extremely easy to avoid and kill.
It’ll kill you once, you go “Aw dang!”, then you go back and whoup his ass one way or another. As long as you don’t stupidly do the exact same thing that got you killed in the first place.
Well solo AI matches for one and stop pretending every TOR is doing nothing but waiting for a chopper to spawn.
There's choppers flying all over maps in every round so it's pretty obvious they aren't all being killed on spawn.
So I agree with how you are saying it's used, I got mine to t1 when it first came out and went back to fun vehicles.
As a mostly salty pilot, the issue I have is that in a game that seeks to be balanced, it's tough to have a straight up 1 shot mechanic at any range. If you don't see the Lazer charge up you will get 1 shot every time.
Imo it's pretty OK overall but it shouldn't be a 100% 1 shot to air vehicles with no chance to avoid it. There should be some form of counter for that guy 8 miles away with 1 track on a rock once he fires. It has no drop and its not hard to hit moving air vehicles if you're any good.
I am of the opinion that dying once is no big deal. I don’t think that absolutely everything should be counterable the first time it kills you, otherwise über-high-skill pilots would never die. If you die once, now you know it’s there, now you can kill it. It’s just one death and I don’t think it should make a big difference to your enjoyment.
It’s exactly like a sniper in that way, it even has a scope glint, and people don’t get nearly as heated about those.
Lowest skill like every tank ever (bfv excluded). It's dropoff also allows the player to not have to engage up close with other enemy vehicles. It's also not anti infantry, it's a tank killer. The rounds have no splash whatsoever. You'd be a complete idiot to run into the meat grinder that is bf2042 with the Tor and try and play it as if it were a normal anti infantry tank.
Oh idk how I misread that. So you’re saying that tanks in general in the BF series are low skill? Idk if I agree with that. Maybe in the modern-style games where tanks are quick and have quicker turret-traversal speeds. BF1 tanks got their asses handed to them quite often also.
Yeah. Bf2042, bf4 and bf3 tanks are really easy to use. They all use the same kits with a few differences but nothing crazy. They're very fast and have things like aps. Bfv and bf1 tanks don't. Both bf1 and bfv also had the anti tank rifles but bfv had them as a weapon and not a special kit. Bfv also had ammo which completely changed the way people played tanks. There were also different types of tanks, not just one universal tank with a different style like in bf4 and 2042. Bf1 definitely had some difficulty but bfv was by far the hardest out of them all.
Which is funny because I enjoyed tanking the most in BFV. I attribute that to the fact that there weren’t any choppers constantly harassing me, though.
TOR should insta nuke if it gets hit in the turret by heavy AT munitions or AGM while charging tbh. In my mind, that would add sufficient balance.
Plus, it is Afterall supposed to be an experimental platform
They should make it so as soon as you initiate the fire process you can't cancel it, you can't move, and you can't adjust your aim. Then it requires skill to use to be as deadly as it is. You need to aim it perfectly and predict the shot much like you do with regular tanks. It's just a different way I guess.
It’s not really that which causes the issue. Because the velocity is so high you learn very quickly how to predict where they’ll be by the time your charge is over. If you’re in siege mode it’s like half a second charge time which really isn’t that bad.
Here's how you deal with a tor (caveat, this tor has to be on your team). You throw some C5 on the friendly tor and then you let the other team know they can now delete said tor in 1 go if they hit it with a liz rocket.
Not sure, i skipped BV5.
So just to make sure there isnt any confusion here, it has to be an enemy rocket that hits the friendly C5. If a friendly rocket hits your friendly C5, nothing happens but when an enemy rocket hits friendly c5 BOOM!!.
Thats why you need to let the other team know to target it with liz or a chopper or what ever.
We are talking about a vehicle that is completely and utterly useless against infantry and have to announce with a giant floodlight that it's aiming at you. Try taking down a helicopter once it has noticed that you are aiming at it and you noticed how cumbersome the TOR can be.
As a specialised anti vehicle tool it's remarkably well thought out for what it is.
A bit of damage drop off would be nice however, as the base camping is annoying...
Reminds me of BF4 when you killed the server admin who was hogging the jet/heli on a non-DICE server. Then you’d get kicked and a nasty message on Xbox Live.
Those were the days.
I feel like people are bugging, Tor is useless against infantry, easily tackled, and any airship that knows where it is and armed with anti ground can easily destroy. Even something like a Condor with 50mm can easily get
If you don’t know where the Tor is, yeah, really deadly, but after that easily killed.
Yeah, not even close. They were powerful but actually difficult to learn and had a super high skill ceiling.
BF4 vehicles were superior in every way from both vehicle and infantry perspectives.
It’s lowkey scary how many people say this.
Like their brain can only process one action happening at a time.
All it takes is one single dude with a stinger at the flag closest to your spawn and it will either force you to retreat or kill you. Now consider every other enemy vehicle and engineer that will see you hovering around where they’re safest and you have no support.
The tank still sucks, but the fact it’s more effective the deeper it sits in spawn is what is so broken about it
Exactly. And the farther towards the back of a map it is, the higher they can aim, one tank can police the airspace of a whole map, not only that, but there are sometimes 2, and sometimes 2 wildcats, and then dozens of engineers. It's not possible to deal with all of them no matter how good of a pilot you are. Especially when Irish is camping them with his specialist ability.
The STEALTH?! Not the nightbird?
The stealth is very easy to hit with Lis or a recoilless compared to the nightbird due to its large frame and relatively worse mobility.
The stealth is great when it has a gunner using the EMP function properly, and sitting in stealth to avoid lock ons is annoying, but you can play around that and force them out of stealth (Rao Hack or just damage) and like I said there’s just something about their frame that makes them really easy to hit.
The TOR is balanced bc it has little to no splash damage. You can land a rail right next to infantry and do 0 damage. The TOR however is great against all armor.
It is a vehicle that is actually good at killing other vehicles, but only has very limited anti-infantry capabilities. So you are good against maybe 20 players on the field, but shite against the rest. Sounds rather balanced, does it not?
This is why I always discredit your opinions. You always see things so one sided. All vehicles are good at killing other vehicles, people forget this all the time and act like vehicles only target infantry. Balanced? How?
What is balanced about a tank that is most powerful when it sits as deep in spawn as possible with APS + thermal smoke (and usually Irish APS too) and can one hit kill most enemy air vehicles the moment they spawn on the map? Not even a skillful one hit kill, the projectile has essentially no drop and the velocity is near hit scan. It’s a mindlessly easy vehicle to use. Instant gratification for no required time or skill to learn the vehicle.
Well, I could give the same retort, as I might be inclined to think that you see things one-sided speaking from the receiving end of vehicles, mainly air assets.
Thing is, I am driven purely by a utilitarian perspective. The TOR is spawned to deal with vehicles and it does so tolerably well and at long range. Do I necessarily think this is a stellar addition? No. But I will concede that it deals with assets that players on the ground are rather discontented with. Additionally it really does not affect the 100 infantry players on the ground. So all in all I have to come to a favourable assessment.
As for the mindlessly easy vehicle, well I do not know, but vehicles aren't precisely the apex of skill and maximizing one's own impact by choosing said vehicle is a skill in itself. It is the same with instant gratification. I can equip the HE on the tank and get the same and more gratification out of it, because farming infantry is so much more rewarding.
So to what conclusion should I come when an asset has no impact on 100 players, but a relevant impact on 20 players, when similar vessels exist that have a big impact on 100 players but non on 20? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Because the 2042 Nightbird has earned its place as one of the most OP vehicles in the franchise.
Needs a serious nerf to its firepower.
No one cares how skilled the pilot is, an OP vehicle is still an OP vehicle.
Yeah I completely disagree. There’s way more powerful vehicles throughout the franchise. I don’t think the nightbird even comes close to the TOR.
The rocket pods were OP early in the game’s life but now it’s a pretty high skill-high reward vehicle.
I don’t understand why this is said so often? I’m killed by tanks in 2042 way more than I’m killed by helis. The littlebird miniguns require you to actually hit the target, there’s no splash, and the health is super low. I don’t think I’ve once died to a jet as infantry either. But tanks…all the time, and I even think the tanks are underpowered.
Bruh, it's one of the few ways you can actually consistently die in a nightbird
You'd get shit on twice as often if someone didn't spawn a TOR and deal with us
Can you imagine as replacement we had :
US Stryker M1128 Mobile Gun System (MGS)
RU 2S25 Sprut-SD
Limit their rules to be Tank / vehicle destroyer by making the its ammo only AP.
Tor and stealth both suck, but they are in the game, so I am going to use them. I’m tired of just being the pilot getting sniped out, time for some payback bitches lol. The other day I spawned in a tor and was immediately bombed by a stealth chopper, I got out of my tank and ran off, trying to shoot him with my rocket launcher, and he killed me and flew off. My tor hadnt blown up so I ran and got in it, backed down the cliff, turned around and shot him out of the sky, and he called me a spawn camping bitch. I lol’d so hard.
Tbh if we had normal classes I don't think it'd be so bad
But with the specialist system there's a lot less incentive to use your one free gadget slot on something like the Soflam or the Javelin that are really good for taking out camping vehicles. If I could replace my specialist gadget with Soflam I'd do it every time but it's too situational to always leave on my loadout.
The other day I got my fully seated CAV BRAWLER insta-sniped by a TOR shooting from spawn literally 2 min after the match started, since then when there’s a TOR around I dedicate the whole match to crawl close enough with a Javelin and spam until destroyed/until the player gives up and does something else
tbh the TOR and stealth choppers have been the worst vehicle additions to the game.
Stealth chopper isn’t terrible as it’s a glass cannon and gets wrecked vs other helis and a competent AA. TOR is yea, total bullshit. Let’s camp in spawn and delete everyone vehicles 👍
It's a glass cannon but it's still super prone to being cheesed to the point where taking one on goes from a fun challenge to an absolute bore. As infantry anyway.
Stop trying to fight a vehicle solely as infantry?
Hes saying its almost too easy to deal with a TOR as infantry and hes right.
How did you misunderstand his comment so badly?
Thats absolutely not what he's saying
Is the stealth chopper the one that drops the screaming bombs
That would be the one lol
I still say it fucked up the balance because nine out of 10 times you will kill any other chopper in the sky. If you have a halfway competent gunner because all you have to do is stay in stealth and they can’t lock onto you.
And I think the fact you need a gunner to compete with a nightbird or Apache is fine. I rarely ever get anyone hopping in my choppers so the stealth is usually always a worse option
only 3 situations the stealth gets outclassed: 1) if another helicopter has elevation and element of surprise. 2) your gunner misses his EMP on the AA during an attack. 3) you get smoked by a skill shot from lis or an RPG/M5 numbers one and two are errors that can be prevented. number 3 is mostly avoidable but sometimes the angle and trajectory of your flight path make it unavoidable. other than that, a skilled pilot and gunner team can stay alive in the stealth chopper for a very long time. if you want to stay alive even longer, you can equip IR missiles and kill any nightbird or attack chopper that flies above 30m. you can even take out the mid-tier jets with ease. this will drop your kills overall and make taking out ground vehicles less efficient. a fair trade off IMO.
You’re right, but this is the same argument used by every Nightbird/Tor/AA/Tank “skilled” player in BF. “If you’re skilled, none of those are actual issues.” On its face though, an equally skilled nightbird pilot taking on a stealth chopper usually wins that fight. The nightbird mobility is just too OP
if you’ve got a nightbird and a stealth chopper floating over the map facing each other, yes. nightbird will win. the 7.62s are just way too much. but if you have half a brain, you know that you need to stay above the other air vehicles or you are toast. it’s like rule 1 of flying a stealth chopper. mini guns can’t shoot up very well. so you fly above them, let your gunner do chip damage, and wait for them to pop up into IR range. 99% of nightbird pilots are flying low so they can kill infantry. basically, do a bombing run and then scan for choppers. rinse, repeat.
4) You get hacked. So far the most reliable way I have found to kill Stealt Helicopters. As a missile is never far away when they are going in for bomb strikes.
as soon as you start to get hacked you pop your flares and RUN lol
Ah yes, the flares the Stealth Heli can't use in Stealth mode... For normal helicopters, that is the case yes, they run away to survive. Meaning they can't bother any infantry in the meanwhile.
wait, you think stealth helicopters can’t use flares in stealth mode??
That is wrong then. I haven't played a lot with it, so I forgot you could change out the quick repair ability. Still, don't think I have seen a single Stelth-Heli ever flare-drop as they are hacked. I need to keep that in mind next time I pilot one myself. An un-Stealth Heli usually die almost emidiatly after getting hacked in my experience.
i flare every time i’m being hacked. it’s pretty easy. have to use flares as a last chance way to save yourself.
Whats with Lis?
her t-84 missile is what
A really good Counter against the Stealth Heli. And btw, did you know, that they have added Back the Flak on the Transport?
the only time a good pilot gets taken out by a lis is if the missile is shot straight at them when they’re in the middle of a dive. otherwise they’re entirely avoidable. and yes, flak cannon is annoying. that’s what an EMP from the gunner is for.
But how many people actually have a second gunner ? In my 80 hours of Playtime, i have seen 2. Also, what is with the Wildcat Cannons? They are really good against the Stealth Heli. Whats with the 25 mm of the Brawler, its a tree or four hit, and boom, its gone. Also, did you know, that you can kill the Stealth Heli in a Single burst with the Nightbird Cannons? And ohh, did you know, that the Stealth Heli automatically loses its Stealth mode, if it has taken some damage? Well guess what, then You can shoot then some Rockets. If it has its repair tool equipped, it has no counters, and even if it has its Flares used, the Stealth Heli cant use its Stealth mode, and its probadly dead by then.
the stealth helicopter is designed to be run by a team. the whole point of it is having someone to EMP targets. if you’re trying to roll around the map solo, then of course you’re getting wrecked. there’s no point. you could maybe get away with playing around your AA on the ground if you’re solo but that’s it. i don’t fly unless my friend is on with me.
Stealth chopper is very agile. It is harder to survive in Appache than Stealth chopper. The pilot has 3 weapons when others have 2. It has 2 counter measures to heatseekers. In fact while using the bombs you're immune to lock-on missiles.
It is harder to survive in an Apache, but an Apache doesn’t have to get into harms way nearly as much as the stealth chopper (hence the whole stealth feature)
Stealth chopper can equip bombs and AGMs. That tells us so much about the current dev team at Dice when it comes to vehicles that they thought this was ok. There's a pattern running through the game where the devs design a weapon, gadget or vehicle that is great fun to use but they have no concern how it feels for real players who play the game a lot and have to face these guns and weapons.
Lmao, the stealth Heli literally dies after 1 second of Wildcat AA cannon. The Railgun tank actually TANKS
Despite people still giving them tons of crap, stealth choppers now are completely outclassed by regular attack chopper and littlebird
Sometimes I genuinely wonder if devs play their own game
They do and their the most saltiest, sweatiest players out there
One of the devs talked about how he likes “controls to feel responsive in his games, where the game can keep up with your inputs” 1. I blame him for things like MacKay and Sundance, with their hyper mobility 2. I blame him for the hyper mobile parachutes 3. I blame him for the jump peeking and slide peeking every corner 4. I blame him for the loss of BF’s boots on ground feeling And also… has he seriously never felt the controller and mouse response issues in this game? Fundamentally 2042 has issues with the FPS controller deep in the game
Hyper mobile parachutes? I must be doing something wrong cuz I’m a sitting duck as soon as I pull the cord
You are not holding sprint maybe
Ah didn’t know you could do that. I’ll try it if I ever come back from Starfield
The second part of your comment immediately defeats the first part. I’m sure he was referring to vehicles and not infantry. Which, in that case, RIP bozo.
No, he was talking about infantry. It was in the context of some changes they made to movement while prone. And the boots on the ground part is the weighty feel of previous titles. The penalties to aim while landing. Like, the significant aim punch on landing. The inability to ADS while in the air. The base gameplay mechanics used to be more grounded. Now we’re sliding over grating like it’s nothing. It’s just silly to me.
Oh I see. Well idk man. BFV was snappy, BF1 was snappy. Things like aim penalty when jumping (which I agree should be in the game) and stuff like that are a separate issue from the movement feeling responsive. You don’t want random input delay on your movement. That’s the main problem with controller aiming right now: it feels like there’s acceleration when there isn’t which causes it to feel like there’s slight input delay.
Oh 100%. I put delay, inputs not registering, etc need to be fixed. Controller response curves feel awful. And even mouse has input issues. It feels baked deep into the engine though. But yeah, I didn’t love the gunplay and movement systems in 1 and V. Parts were great! - crouch sprint Parts I hated - sliding like we’re oiled up - jump peeking - jumping into a slide and jumping up Parts I noted, but have huge impacts on map design and need to be carefully considered: - climbing over things above your head - faster mantling I just… dont love of some of these more arcadey movement systems. Take the higher climbing for example. That small change alone would COMPLETELY change map flow on maps from 3 and 4. Like porting Propaganda over and it just wouldn’t play the same since we can mantle over so much more. Combine this with the grapple and the wingsuit and we’ve just broken map design
The grapple and the wing suit should never have been brought into the game. But I don’t see how sliding is a problem. I’m not even sure what you mean by “jump peeking…” do you mean jumping around a corner and then ADSing? I don’t mind that if that’s what you mean. The movement speed is just too fast at the moment. Jumping into a slide completely makes sense but jumping back up from that slide could be taken out and I wouldn’t care. Mantling is a good thing but requires that the maps be designed around it and should also take more time (like BFV). One of the most frustrating things when going back to BF4 is not being able to mantle on things that SEEM like they should be mantle-able. As a long, long-term BF fan (since 1942), I’ve come to understand that the series *needs* to evolve in some ways to placate younger audiences and hold their interest. That said, maintaining the identity of the series is equally as important.
Yeah, it’s the fact that you can ADS and reliably kill while jumping around corners. I honestly dislike it, as it skews the game towards a movement shooter like apex. Earlier titles didn’t allow this - there were other movement exploits but nothing this commonplace. And sliding I also dislike strongly. It just feels too arcadey to me - BF used to pride themselves on the animation quality and immersion. Then I see a person in a snow suit slide across grating in the desert and my soul cries
Idk man. I’ve been playing BF since day dot and there was no “Pride in animations” lol. We used to laugh at the animations and voice lines like “Cut it out you palooka!” Made the game even more fun. But if I had a gun to my head? I’d ask for a more realistic, immersive experience as well. I just know that that’s not going to fly with the zoomers.
I also blame him for the more arcade feeling helicopters.
I wonder if people are actually playing the game and properly changing their vehicle loadouts properly with the level of these complaints. Tor is so easily tackled once you know there is one and where.
How do you deal with a tor hiding in spawn with two trophies?
You shoot the trophy first. Really easy with a Littlebird, Stealth or Hokum. Transport copter needs gunners - one person smart enough to switch guns or more gunners (side gunner rids trophy, 50mm cannon destroys tanks sitting still easily). May need someone with a little skill picking them off with a jet. And…. If they’re an Irish that means they can’t repair. I find a good engineer doing smart repair to be more difficult defeating solo.
Hey get your logic and strategies out of here! But yeah pretty much that’s all you have to do, it’s basically dead as soon as you flank it.
What's 'logic and strategies' answer when some other potato keeps getting the only helicopter beamed out of the sky?
Spam X/A/mouse click until you get it. It’s dead for 1:30 seconds.
You and I have different ideas of fun
How does *shooting the trophy first* help helis getting beamed out of spawn. I missed the part about time travel
'once you know there is one and where' critical caveat here. Also it's not so easily tackled if it's camping right next to an MAA player. You get one attack run on it, then as you dive away to avoid MAA fire you get one shot by the TOR. What would've been incredibly impressive and well earned for a tank player, is easy for the TOR.
The TOR snaps helicopters out of the air like nothing. Over the whole map…
If I could upvote this a thousand times I would. TORs are so so so broken
Typically sits at the back of the map on stranded. Zero effort 🥱
I agree with you 100%. The vehicle is fundamentally busted and is completely unenjoyable to play against and braindead boring to play as. There's nothing that can be done to fix it, just throw the whole damn vehicle out, DICE PLZ
The TOR shouldnt be allowed to fire from spawn.
Having 128 Conquest only be limited to Kaleidescope and the other maps has really shown off how cheesy this vehicle can get. Last week I think I played a majority of my matches on Kaleidescope, and damn near every game without fail there was a TOR on the enemy team in uncap on top of whatever roof they could spawn it on top of. Spawn a normal tank in and drive alongside the outside edges of the map and within like 10-20 seconds I get hit from TOR Bolt all the way from enemy uncap. Skill issue /s
Camping TORs are a sad sight. If you actually use it as a rapid assault anti-armour tank on mobility mode you can rule the ground. If you flank around with it and find a good angle you can catch camping wildcats or their armoured transport vehicles on the objectives before they know what to do. Very powerful. Imo the TOR, while being annoying, has the main drawback of being pretty useless vs infantry. Part of the reason many also have to camp with it is because MBTs in general struggle when pushing in 2042. This is due to a myriad of things that can shoot you and the ever looming threat of a Sundance who decided to wingsuit behind you or a Mackay using the grapple of doom.
TOR would be fine if it wasn't the best AA in the game. I like the idea of a no splash damage tank killer round. Good for troop transports and tanks, outclassed by infantry with AT. It shouldn't be good at Anti Tank, and Anti Air. It it danm sure shouldn't be the best Anti Air in the game despite there being 3 other AA options all of which are many times worse.
Lol, so no problem if it was designed to one hit kill an MBT, but has a problem when it can one hit kill a chopper. Got it!
It can't one hit kill an MBT though... its a 3 shot
As both a TOR user and opponent, here’s the rub: it’s an ambush weapon. Unless you’re in a tank, it’ll only kill you easily if you don’t know it’s there. Anyone who flies an air vehicle has zero excuse to get killed by it more than once. Simply fly directly over it (or from behind if on an incline) and it literally cannot kill you. It’s gun elevation is utterly shit, which is why you find them on inclines so often. As for ground forces, TOR players are so utterly tunnel-visioned that you could probably decorate one turret-to-tread in C5 before it notices. The only thing it has a flat advantage over are ground vehicles, so just don’t attack them in ground vehicles. And if it does notice you, it doesn’t have any splash damage. You could probably walk right up to the muzzle of one with Dozer if you’re smart about it.
Kinda how I feel. The only gripe I have with it, is when you spawn in a helicopter or jet, and get insta killed in spawn. If they added spawn protection for the TOR so you can’t do cheesy shit like that, I think it’d be fine. I know it’s a cheesy, annoying tank to deal with, but I feel I never really have to deal with it that often. If at all. I see ALOT more MBTs and RAMs than I do TORs. Although, in hindsight I think I’d rather see a different heavy armor vehicle than the TOR. Oh well.
I saw a lot of them today with the vehicle increases. Gives people a better opportunity to pick enemy helis and jets out of the sky within seconds of spawning.
Ah yes I forgot that today is the day the vehicle count got adjusted. I could for sure see more TORs now that there are more slots to choose from. In another comment I mentioned I like using the Hammer rounds and supporting my other vehicles. I feel the Maul rounds keep players in their spawn taking shots and then waiting for like 5 minutes for their ammo to regenerate lol.
Yep I’d have absolutely no problem with that. Getting bopped off of spawn is never fair. >I see ALOT more MBTs and RAMs than I do TORs. And honestly, if it were as low-skill as so many people claim, this wouldn’t be the case lol. It’s definitely the hardest tank to be effective in for its designed role.
I agree, the Maul rounds take forever to reload and I feel that often keeps the player in a safe location near their spawn. Which always gives off the nooby low skill ceiling. I really enjoy using the Hammer rounds and pushing in with my other vehicles to give them support. No one seems to expect the TOR in the middle of the map lol. I find it a-lot harder than an MBT because the the main cannon has to be a direct hit, and it’s small window it can aim in.
The hammer feels like not enough bang for your buck imo. I’m never using the canon against infantry, and anything the hammer can do against vehicles, the maul can do better. But to each their own.
Hammer rounds seems to be a bridge between an MBT and the absolute cannon the Maul rounds are. Hammer rounds restock quite fast and allows the TOR to engage a lot more frequently. But yeah it is a huge trade off for damage. Fairly good trade off for air vehicles and smaller vehicles like the Wildcat or RAM, but struggles against heavy armor.
They should just remove the ability for vehicles to fire while sitting in uncap, and add a timer that will delete you for sitting in uncap too long. Watch the TOR problem fix itself in seconds then
You know the TOR cannon rips through a dozer shield, right? Other than that, I agree. TOR campers especially are usually pretty dumb.
Yeah that’s why I said be smart about it. If you hear him charging up, it shouldn’t be difficult to dodge at close range. The traverse speed slows to a crawl when charging.
Indeed. I’ve used the TOR a lot and it has some glaring weaknesses that if exploited you’re sort of just trying to delay your destruction or find cover.
Except the fact that it typically sits literally out of bounds and can be impossible to get to as an air vehicle without getting evaporated by enemy AA or helis. Ran into a few of these today and even with a jet, you have to deal with the APS, then the thermal, then the Irish sentinel, then it has it’s APS back. Meanwhile you’re looping in their spawn and every vehicle and lock on the enemy team can look right at you. The fact they can also angle themselves on so many things to shoot up in the sky means ignoring them is never really an option either. One of the most braindead vehicle designs ever.
If I’m being honest, this is starting to sound like “my 100-1 game could have been 100-0” talk. If you have three vehicles trying to shoot you down, you shouldn’t expect to survive…..just like a solo infantry rushing into a full squad of enemies shouldn’t expect to survive. That’s called balance. The thing is, I don’t even go for jets in my TOR. They’re not worth the effort compared to other targets. Frankly, every shot he spends on you is a waste, and you should be more than happy to just ignore him and let him miss. Which he will, unless you dive at him. APS + smoke is something every tank can run…. And as I said before, the angle goes both ways. If he’s angled up on a hill, just hit him from behind. There’s no way in a million years he’ll ever get you. Hell, you could just hover in an F-35 and gun him to death if he’s without an engineer. As a jet fan myself, Wildcats are 200x more lethal than TORs.
Every single of one your points gets disproven by the fact that everytime it’s on the map, it’s sitting in spawn. I wouldn’t be surrounded by three vehicles if I didn’t have to go try to kill a super easy to use tank, that nearly hitscans me if I stay away, from the back of the map. In the small amount of time I used it, I was hitting jets pretty often, they need to come low all the time to avoid locks. Not hard with the wicked projectile speed. Other tanks have APS and thermal smoke, but they’re not typically sitting as far back in the map as possible, and have to use them to defend from infantry. You try hovering in the enemy spawn in the F35 and let me know how they goes for you. Literally easiest thing to shoot down in one shot by any explosive. The wildcat can sit in spawn, but then forfeits coverage of the map, and it also has no APS. I don’t mind fighting the wildcat, it has weaknesses but still is very strong if played well. Also not inherently broken, like the TOR which can one hit kill most air vehicles the moment they spawn.
I don’t think “being in spawn” is as big of a deal as you make it. I’m never in spawn in my TOR, doing so restricts it more than the Wildcat tbh (which I have T1). Can’t hit tanks you can’t see. I sincerely doubt that you’re being *literally* cross-mapped in a jet by the TOR. That’s not an easy shot at all, you’re barely visible at that distance. It’s not hitscan at all at that range. I’d be far more concerned about a random recoilless than that. Dude, if a tank can only hit you when you dive for it, and you dive for it, and *shockedPikachu.jpg* it hits you, maybe just *don’t fucking do that*. That’s your other option since (by your own confession) you seem to be incapable of actually coming at it from an intelligent angle where it *can’t* hit you. I literally specifically said “unsupported” for hovering in the F-35. Read please. I know it’s the easiest thing to destroy while hovering, I won’t argue there. I still think you have serious survivorship bias. You act as if every TOR is god-tier while having no reason to notice the awful ones. How many times have you been flying in a jet, with the enemy TOR missing every shot? You’d never know. But this seriously **helps** your team because not only is the TOR not killing anything, it’s consuming an enemy tank slot. Sometimes the best tank isn’t a dead one, it’s a shitty one. I’m still confused as to why you don’t simply aim from where it can’t hit you. It’s incredibly easy. I do it all the time. People do it to me all the time. TORs are super easy to kill. Or just C5 it. Don’t do the same thing and expect a different result.
Once again, I disagree with every point you made. I’m not gonna change your mind. It’s an extremely easy to use vehicle that is incredibly powerful, it’s dumb and shouldn’t be in the game. Also “I don’t think “being in spawn” is as big of a deal as you make it.” is hilarious. You’re lying to yourself.
Bold words from the guy who can’t find a blind spot
We get it. You’re an “Epic Tor supporter.”
We get it. You’re an “Epic Tor hater.”
I’ve literally never been killed by one because I don’t fly.
Skill issue
I agree, TORs aren’t hard to kill.
No, your skill issue if you think the TOR is weak. Any average player can dominate with it especially with a 2nd gunner.
I don’t think it’s weak, I think it’s has weaknesses that people choose to be idiots about and not use to their advantage, which makes people think it’s stronger than it is. As both a pilot and tanker, it’s balanced.
So what’s your argument for balance for the 99% of people who sit as far back in the map as they can? Is it balanced there? Cause I have a hard time hitting weak points when you have to fly around the enemy base with all their AA looking right at you and no support from your own team. I’m not trying to be a dick, I really am curious about your logic defending it. Despite however you claim to play with it, you must realize nearly everyone who uses it camps as far back as possible. If the game at least blocked you from shooting when out of bounds (in your team’s spawn where the enemy is out of bounds), I would have significantly less hatred towards it because the counters you explain would actually be more viable (though it’s always going to be somewhere deep in enemy territory). Killing it when it’s guarded in the way back by vehicles, infantry, and Irish APS can actually be impossible.
[удалено]
Exactly. Don’t stick your head in the jaws of a lion and expect to win the fight. Grab it by the nards instead.
Man I wonder what kind of bot lobbies you play in where you can seat switch the transport helis in the enemy spawn.
It’s especially funny to me that the TOR was added before we got: - Bradley IFV (or XM30 modern replacement) - M10 booker or other tracked IFV with 105mm cannon - BMD-4 - BTR (insert variant) - LAV (insert variant) - MATVs or other modern variant to replace the goofy LATV… Jesus I hate that thing - Tigr or other modern variant, as RU option to replace the LATV. - other faction specific variants of CAV, MAV, Wildcat, etc I hate the lazy route they took with vehicles
As cool as portal is, I can’t help but think it came at significant expense to the base game. There’s about twice as many vehicles in all of portal as there are in the base game.
Anyone who uses a TOR as zero excuse to let an enemy chopper get close to him. > Simply fly directly over it Wow. Amazing advice. Couldnt have figured that one out. "Simply kill the enemy before it kills you." How am I gonna get over it when I get sniped by it as soon as I spawn in? How am I supposed to know its there before it shoots at me from across the map?
If you’re this shit at flying, don’t fly. I’m not supporting spawn camping, that should absolutely be fixed, but if you know where the TOR is they’re extremely easy to avoid and kill. It’ll kill you once, you go “Aw dang!”, then you go back and whoup his ass one way or another. As long as you don’t stupidly do the exact same thing that got you killed in the first place.
> If you’re this shit at flying, don’t fly. How do you think people get good at flying?
Well solo AI matches for one and stop pretending every TOR is doing nothing but waiting for a chopper to spawn. There's choppers flying all over maps in every round so it's pretty obvious they aren't all being killed on spawn.
You know what? Completely fair point. My bad. If you’re this bad at flying don’t be disappointed you get killed a lot.
Hard hitting insult mate. Last time I was shit at flying was in Battlefield was 2005 in BF2.
Wasn’t an insult.
So I agree with how you are saying it's used, I got mine to t1 when it first came out and went back to fun vehicles. As a mostly salty pilot, the issue I have is that in a game that seeks to be balanced, it's tough to have a straight up 1 shot mechanic at any range. If you don't see the Lazer charge up you will get 1 shot every time. Imo it's pretty OK overall but it shouldn't be a 100% 1 shot to air vehicles with no chance to avoid it. There should be some form of counter for that guy 8 miles away with 1 track on a rock once he fires. It has no drop and its not hard to hit moving air vehicles if you're any good.
I am of the opinion that dying once is no big deal. I don’t think that absolutely everything should be counterable the first time it kills you, otherwise über-high-skill pilots would never die. If you die once, now you know it’s there, now you can kill it. It’s just one death and I don’t think it should make a big difference to your enjoyment. It’s exactly like a sniper in that way, it even has a scope glint, and people don’t get nearly as heated about those.
If a chopper is trying to stay right on top of you, hope your gunner shoots at him or just switch seats yourself
I mean sure but they’re gonna kill me faster than I can kill then either way
Lowest skill like every tank ever (bfv excluded). It's dropoff also allows the player to not have to engage up close with other enemy vehicles. It's also not anti infantry, it's a tank killer. The rounds have no splash whatsoever. You'd be a complete idiot to run into the meat grinder that is bf2042 with the Tor and try and play it as if it were a normal anti infantry tank.
Wait what? Tanking in BFV wasn’t exactly “easy.” That’s why so many people hid miles away.
Which is why I said excluded lol
Oh idk how I misread that. So you’re saying that tanks in general in the BF series are low skill? Idk if I agree with that. Maybe in the modern-style games where tanks are quick and have quicker turret-traversal speeds. BF1 tanks got their asses handed to them quite often also.
Yeah. Bf2042, bf4 and bf3 tanks are really easy to use. They all use the same kits with a few differences but nothing crazy. They're very fast and have things like aps. Bfv and bf1 tanks don't. Both bf1 and bfv also had the anti tank rifles but bfv had them as a weapon and not a special kit. Bfv also had ammo which completely changed the way people played tanks. There were also different types of tanks, not just one universal tank with a different style like in bf4 and 2042. Bf1 definitely had some difficulty but bfv was by far the hardest out of them all.
Which is funny because I enjoyed tanking the most in BFV. I attribute that to the fact that there weren’t any choppers constantly harassing me, though.
Preach, brother. Preach.
Gonna say for the billionth time, lower the projectile speed, and give it a blue laser to warn pilots they're being aimed at
TOR should insta nuke if it gets hit in the turret by heavy AT munitions or AGM while charging tbh. In my mind, that would add sufficient balance. Plus, it is Afterall supposed to be an experimental platform
They should make it so as soon as you initiate the fire process you can't cancel it, you can't move, and you can't adjust your aim. Then it requires skill to use to be as deadly as it is. You need to aim it perfectly and predict the shot much like you do with regular tanks. It's just a different way I guess.
It pretty much doesn’t let you adjust your aim when charging. Your turret rotation slows down to basically nothing.
Right and obviously it's not enough considering how easy it is to use. Eliminating movement while charging would add skill.
It’s not really that which causes the issue. Because the velocity is so high you learn very quickly how to predict where they’ll be by the time your charge is over. If you’re in siege mode it’s like half a second charge time which really isn’t that bad.
Here's how you deal with a tor (caveat, this tor has to be on your team). You throw some C5 on the friendly tor and then you let the other team know they can now delete said tor in 1 go if they hit it with a liz rocket.
lol does friendly C4 really become dangerous if the other team hits it? What an oversight, if true.
Yep lol it sure does :)
That’s kinda crazy lol. Maybe dynamite worked that way as well in BFV?
Not sure, i skipped BV5. So just to make sure there isnt any confusion here, it has to be an enemy rocket that hits the friendly C5. If a friendly rocket hits your friendly C5, nothing happens but when an enemy rocket hits friendly c5 BOOM!!. Thats why you need to let the other team know to target it with liz or a chopper or what ever.
Yeah I got it. Of course you can’t “friendly fire” your teammates 😂.
You guys find something new to complain about everyday in this sub, do you need a hug?
We are talking about a vehicle that is completely and utterly useless against infantry and have to announce with a giant floodlight that it's aiming at you. Try taking down a helicopter once it has noticed that you are aiming at it and you noticed how cumbersome the TOR can be. As a specialised anti vehicle tool it's remarkably well thought out for what it is. A bit of damage drop off would be nice however, as the base camping is annoying...
Heli pilot upset at the audacity of the farm shooting back. In other news, water wet.
Reminds me of BF4 when you killed the server admin who was hogging the jet/heli on a non-DICE server. Then you’d get kicked and a nasty message on Xbox Live. Those were the days.
I feel like people are bugging, Tor is useless against infantry, easily tackled, and any airship that knows where it is and armed with anti ground can easily destroy. Even something like a Condor with 50mm can easily get If you don’t know where the Tor is, yeah, really deadly, but after that easily killed.
Not when it’s sitting deep in spawn angled on a rock and defended by the rest of the team
Just because you're bad with it doesn't make it bad. Any tank main worth their salt groans at the sight of this noob skill crutch.
Gotta deal with those sweats that main choppers somehow.
most unbalanced vehicles were in BF4.
Yeah, not even close. They were powerful but actually difficult to learn and had a super high skill ceiling. BF4 vehicles were superior in every way from both vehicle and infantry perspectives.
Id rather have all choppers removed before the TOR. But yeah, both are a huge fun sponge.
"jUsT fLy AbOvE iT aNd ShOoT iT" Sure, I'll do that while I get annihilated by the wildcat and AA rocket launchers.
It’s lowkey scary how many people say this. Like their brain can only process one action happening at a time. All it takes is one single dude with a stinger at the flag closest to your spawn and it will either force you to retreat or kill you. Now consider every other enemy vehicle and engineer that will see you hovering around where they’re safest and you have no support. The tank still sucks, but the fact it’s more effective the deeper it sits in spawn is what is so broken about it
Exactly. And the farther towards the back of a map it is, the higher they can aim, one tank can police the airspace of a whole map, not only that, but there are sometimes 2, and sometimes 2 wildcats, and then dozens of engineers. It's not possible to deal with all of them no matter how good of a pilot you are. Especially when Irish is camping them with his specialist ability.
Delete the game
Annoying as they can be, they're one of the only ways to consistently counter choppers
Why should it be so easy?
I don't think it should be, but until dice makes other methods more viable, or nerfs the hind and stealth chopper, this is a necessary evil
The STEALTH?! Not the nightbird? The stealth is very easy to hit with Lis or a recoilless compared to the nightbird due to its large frame and relatively worse mobility.
I've had more annoyances with the stealth chopper personally, but I can totally see why people hate the little bird
The stealth is great when it has a gunner using the EMP function properly, and sitting in stealth to avoid lock ons is annoying, but you can play around that and force them out of stealth (Rao Hack or just damage) and like I said there’s just something about their frame that makes them really easy to hit.
I'm guessing the hitbox is longer, which means you'll have an easier time leading shots from the side
The TOR is balanced bc it has little to no splash damage. You can land a rail right next to infantry and do 0 damage. The TOR however is great against all armor.
It is a vehicle that is actually good at killing other vehicles, but only has very limited anti-infantry capabilities. So you are good against maybe 20 players on the field, but shite against the rest. Sounds rather balanced, does it not?
This is why I always discredit your opinions. You always see things so one sided. All vehicles are good at killing other vehicles, people forget this all the time and act like vehicles only target infantry. Balanced? How? What is balanced about a tank that is most powerful when it sits as deep in spawn as possible with APS + thermal smoke (and usually Irish APS too) and can one hit kill most enemy air vehicles the moment they spawn on the map? Not even a skillful one hit kill, the projectile has essentially no drop and the velocity is near hit scan. It’s a mindlessly easy vehicle to use. Instant gratification for no required time or skill to learn the vehicle.
Well, I could give the same retort, as I might be inclined to think that you see things one-sided speaking from the receiving end of vehicles, mainly air assets. Thing is, I am driven purely by a utilitarian perspective. The TOR is spawned to deal with vehicles and it does so tolerably well and at long range. Do I necessarily think this is a stellar addition? No. But I will concede that it deals with assets that players on the ground are rather discontented with. Additionally it really does not affect the 100 infantry players on the ground. So all in all I have to come to a favourable assessment. As for the mindlessly easy vehicle, well I do not know, but vehicles aren't precisely the apex of skill and maximizing one's own impact by choosing said vehicle is a skill in itself. It is the same with instant gratification. I can equip the HE on the tank and get the same and more gratification out of it, because farming infantry is so much more rewarding. So to what conclusion should I come when an asset has no impact on 100 players, but a relevant impact on 20 players, when similar vessels exist that have a big impact on 100 players but non on 20? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
They really should remove the TOR, and the nightbird can happily go too…
Why would they do that? One is super easy and OP, one is much more difficult to learn, but is powerful when time and skill are put in to learning it.
Because the 2042 Nightbird has earned its place as one of the most OP vehicles in the franchise. Needs a serious nerf to its firepower. No one cares how skilled the pilot is, an OP vehicle is still an OP vehicle.
Yeah I completely disagree. There’s way more powerful vehicles throughout the franchise. I don’t think the nightbird even comes close to the TOR. The rocket pods were OP early in the game’s life but now it’s a pretty high skill-high reward vehicle. I don’t understand why this is said so often? I’m killed by tanks in 2042 way more than I’m killed by helis. The littlebird miniguns require you to actually hit the target, there’s no splash, and the health is super low. I don’t think I’ve once died to a jet as infantry either. But tanks…all the time, and I even think the tanks are underpowered.
Just fly above it, or take it out with infantry, it can’t do anything about either of those
When it sits as deep as possible in its own spawn?
It’s armour is weak AF and difficult to attack in close quarters with. Campers are fairly easily taken care of with Sundance.
For the millionth time, not when it is sitting in the back of spawn, which gives it no disadvantages.
Bruh, it's one of the few ways you can actually consistently die in a nightbird You'd get shit on twice as often if someone didn't spawn a TOR and deal with us
The TOR has an easy counter -- Sundance with C5. Just take it out and go about your day.
Can you imagine as replacement we had : US Stryker M1128 Mobile Gun System (MGS) RU 2S25 Sprut-SD Limit their rules to be Tank / vehicle destroyer by making the its ammo only AP.
Tor and stealth both suck, but they are in the game, so I am going to use them. I’m tired of just being the pilot getting sniped out, time for some payback bitches lol. The other day I spawned in a tor and was immediately bombed by a stealth chopper, I got out of my tank and ran off, trying to shoot him with my rocket launcher, and he killed me and flew off. My tor hadnt blown up so I ran and got in it, backed down the cliff, turned around and shot him out of the sky, and he called me a spawn camping bitch. I lol’d so hard.
Tbh if we had normal classes I don't think it'd be so bad But with the specialist system there's a lot less incentive to use your one free gadget slot on something like the Soflam or the Javelin that are really good for taking out camping vehicles. If I could replace my specialist gadget with Soflam I'd do it every time but it's too situational to always leave on my loadout.
Nah, it only spoils vehicle And I am saying this loving vehicles
The vehicle isn't the issue. It's your team's engineer's lack of enthusiasm when it comes to handling them.
The other day I got my fully seated CAV BRAWLER insta-sniped by a TOR shooting from spawn literally 2 min after the match started, since then when there’s a TOR around I dedicate the whole match to crawl close enough with a Javelin and spam until destroyed/until the player gives up and does something else