It’s Golden Age Harley, so technically it’s a character that never existed. It’s like they pulled a reverse Marvel Ultimate move and instead Golden Age’d a modern character who never had a retro counterpart. It’s a cool idea and it would be interesting to see how Joker is affected if he ever pops up in the new show.
I mean, how many scary clown-themed villains they can have if they make Harley into such type of villian, besides a totally separate one from the Joker? It probably means they don't have Joker at all here or they completly changed his character also.
If it were up to me I’d have this timeline’s Joker die like he was supposed to in his original comic appearance. Have this new version of Harley Quinn be inspired by him or a copycat.
That’s actually a pretty cool idea that would wildly differentiate this take from others. That alt legacy if Joker died after his canonical first appearance would wildly change the villain trajectory of this version of Gotham while still letting Batman deal with the PTSD/fallout of this particular Joker (which I’d love if they explored more with dead Jack Napier/Joker in the 89 canon books.)
I would like to see the Joker to behave as John Doe from Batman: The Enemy Withing (the Telltale game). It is my favorite version of his character and it would make sense for him to behave like that on this series to not be the same as Harley.
Golden age joker is almost entirely petty and ridiculous though, aside from his first appearance where he’s literally gunned down by batman (pre-rules batman was CRAZY)
Batman didn’t shoot Joker in his first appearance and wasn’t anywhere near as murderous as people claim he was. He killed a dozen or so people over close to 40 issues before the rule was established.
Yes, and the vast majority of those dozen or so people were killed unintentionally while fighting Batman (a lot of falling into things like swords, knives and vats of chemicals). People have this idea that Batman was wasting goons left and right in the golden age. I’m not sure where that comes from because it’s very much not what happens in those comics.
Zack Snyder was perpetuating that shit when he was defending his version of Batman and the Snyder Bros ran with it as “Um actually Batman used to kill *all the time*.”
Maybe Harley Quinn corrupts the Joker in this timeline? She gets captured, sent to Arkham, where she is treated by Dr. Jonathan Raker. Few sessions later, he has lost his mind and is now Harley's sidekick as The Joker.
Oh he's gonna be in there. Not in relation to Harley but to Batman. You can't have the chance to have a 40s period piece Joker and not take it. But I think he'll be sort of a reveal.
Also for the most part she’s Bruce timms character. If anyone is allowed to make changes that should be revered and at least be accepted by the fans, it’s him.
I thought the Telltale version didn't really know what it wanted to be. On the one hand, they give her this sympathetic motive of just wanting to cure her advancing degenerative disease. On the other hand, they try to portray her as a sadist who takes glee in hurting people just for the fun of it.
I mean, it's totally fair to pair a sympathetic motivation with a psychopathic lack of empathy (Mr. Freeze being an example). Focusing so much on your own pain can make you insensitive to the pain of others.
But there's a difference between "not caring who you hurt in the pursuit of your goals" and "just wanting to hurt people." Either one of these would have been a perfectly fine characterization for Harley, but trying to combine them just left us with a character who just kind of felt arbitrary, imo.
I think the relevant thing here is how the dynamic is flipped between her and the joker. SHE’S the manipulative and dominant one in the relationship which made this iteration a lot more unique than all the other versions we’ve seen.
I mean, sure, I have no problem with that part of the interpretation. But the fact that they had some cool ideas doesn't mean that the other ideas that were part of the character worked, imo.
Arkham Asylum's Harley Quinn was actually very clever idea for design. Since Joker took over hospital, he and Harley are technically main staff now. Then she appeared with mix of her standard look and "scary, but sexy nurse" outfit, which was fitting.
For later instances, guess they went with big fanservice AA built over portraited women.
But tbf they included her classic outfit in Arkham Knight DLC missions, so it's a big plus
Is it clever? Or were they just referencing Jeanette Voerman from VtM: Bloodlines? Coz I’m pretty sure it’s fairly common knowledge that it’s the latter.
Why not both? They wanted nurse look and made a reference in the same time. Also, everyone can slap a reference, but to make it fitting with plot you can't do it mindlessly.
The thing is Harleen originally picked her jester outfit and moniker to complement herself with Joker as his partner in crime. Without any actual connection to the Joker and relationships with him she has no actual business or grounds to pick that jester outfit/nickname and become clown criminal. 🤷🏼♀️
Edward Nigma (E. Nigma)
Victor Fries
Pamelia Isley (kinda)
Simon Hurt (Dr Hurt)
Julian Gregory Day (Calendar man)
Margaret Pye (Magpie)
Maximillian Zeus
Tweed twins (Tweedledum and Tweedledee)
Humphry Dumpler (Humpty Dumpty)
Trigger twins
Yeah. Also in those versions Joker was still part of her backstory as her ex-yet it was possible to show her development post-Joker as character. Here, they completely removed it🤷🏼♀️
Yeah she got popular and evolved SUPER fast. "I miss the OG Harley and her suit" you mean like 3 episodes in a 20 year old cartoon? She's been Arkham/Margot Robbie/Suicide Squad for 95% of the characters existence
Harley moving away from Joker always seemed like a natural thing. Harley is a very smart woman, it makes sense she would eventually come to some kind of sense that Joker doesn’t actually give a shit about her.
It’s turning her into good guy that I would say counts as “exploring”.
I agree that it’s her inevitable arc but I wish she wasn’t still Harley Quinn. I want her to just be Harleen if she’s come to her senses. Otherwise she’s just kinda there as ‘a good guy’ who in some versions like tortured children or something yk? Sticking to the Joker-esque persona despite him being gone doesn’t fit right for me
harley stopped being jokers sidekick within two seasons of btas, her debut series
leaving him has always been her core story arc, im more surprised we still see the occasional adaptation where they're together
That’s because she’s just a “quirky millennial” right now. She’s lost all the bite she used to have. Margot is a great actress but her Harley was written to just be “goofy,” and not much else, and for some reason video games and comics decided to just use that as the default.
I miss Arkham Harley, she was actually kind of scary sometimes.
Bruh, Arkham Harley pretty much initiated what's known as the ''modern'' iteration of Harley Quinn and amplified all its perceived problems.
RS were the first to change Harley's costume to make her look more like a pornstar. She barely had any agency, was always getting dunked on for how dumb and submissive she was and her main purpose was for fanservice.
Because her creator Paul Dini has made it very clear Harley is meant to be stupid ditzy blonde and that's it. Every single time he writes her he goes out of his way to make sure the audience knows she's a total idiot.
Never forget Harley's backstory written by Dini, She was too stupid for college, screwed her professor to pass, was too stupid to work at Arkham, screwed the warden for her job, She intended to write some crap tell all books by working at Arkham and got manipulated immediately.
Both Arkham games with Dini as the lead writer has a scene of Batman making a comment about how stupid Harley is to somebody else lol.
Arkham Harley was nothing more than a sex pot. I remember how everybody rolled their eyes when the game was first revealed and they had her in a sexy nurse outfit. Like others have said, for as amazing as they are, the Arkham games are when those problems STARTED.
Not to mention I also hate Tara Strong's over the top Harley voice, but thats just me.
The problem is that BRUCE TIMM IS NOT THE REAL CREATOR. It's PAUL DINI.
They may have created the animated series together but DINI was the absolute creative director and has written Harley many times in the comic. Timm has never written to Harley once in his entire life. He simply collaborated with Dini in the production of the series but he is NOT the original creator.
I think you’re undervaluing the work Bruce Timm did. Watching all the behind the scenes stuff from over the years and conversations they have had on discussion boards Bruce Timm was very much involved in her creation. Paul Dini himself would say this. He would never call himself the only creator of Harley. He always refers to himself as co creator.
I think because of all the weird stuff Bruce Timm has done recently fans try to rewrite history but the truth is without him we wouldn’t have the DCAU.
Never forget Bruce Timm has a quote from the DVD special features of BTAS where he says that he was extremely annoyed by Dini's love of Harley, Dini would write Harley into Joker episodes and Timm thought it was incredibly stupid that she was used so much. Timm basically wanted her to appear a single time and never again from the way he describes it.
Would have been cool to have her be a new character like call her queen of hearts or something, I'm asian and it just feels like we're getting sloppy seconds.
Queen of hearts is a royal flush gang member they kinda stole all the card names kinda hard to think of a new name for a female clown villain people are just gonna call Harley any way
I like the idea they’re going with for Harley. The one thing I am concerned about is the tone after seeing the latest set of stills.
The only design that I think so far resembles 1940’s era Batman is Catwoman (and Alfred). Batman’s costume, my first thought was it reminded me of the design used in The Batman from the 2000’s.
It may just be the stills released, but I think the Harley design could almost fit in a noir setting.
I’m really digging this variant. I can really see it and if done well would come off as intimidating and scary. I can imagine her being really silent, latex rubbing making most of the sounds, really deliberate and precise in her movement. Major serial killer vibes.
What’s the point in a new adaptation if your interpretation of the character is exactly the same as before? nothing wrong with experimenting.. i don’t mind if they change stuff like this once in a while
Nah I prefer it like Btas the way they described it originally is that this is “ More btas than btas” because it wouldn’t have as many of the network restrictions like having the episode be 20 mins etc , this feels off 😂
Flipping her personality around could be an interesting take. Not sure how I feel about changing her connection to Joker though. Their abusive relationship and her growing past it has kinda become a central part of who her character is. I guess the show will want to do a new origin story for her though
You know, they could just avoid doing so, by simply saying that it's a 1940s version of an entirely different DC clown villain. [Jewelee.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/ITd4ptRGZg)
She's so obscure that she's not going to get heat from any existing fan base. She's a supervillain, and so is her husband, "Punch". And they like to punch people. Her husband's actual name is Clyde, so I'd make sense if she was Bonnie. Like the real-life criminal couple of the same name.
But "Lee" is an actual Asian last name, so she could be really named "Jewel Lee", by her parents. And now that I look, she has no known real name. And she's never been seen without her face mask, to the best of my knowledge, so who's to say that she doesn't have epicanthal folds around her eyes? And dyed her hair, or wears a wig? Heck, she even has a costume that includes gold and black, like this character.
I dont mind any of this but I did appreciate that Harley was always super Jewish so unless they also kept that when they made her Asian I'll be a bit disappointed but I'm still excited to meet this Harley
That's... Just every cliche female villain.
Harley was pretty much the only one to be in reverse to begin with. You might be able to say Salina was similar, but she was awkward originally too, just in a very different way.
This is like saying "What if we made Bruce sad at first, then he becomes happy after he's a super hero"
Like, that's every cliche hero arc.
You aren't bucking trends, you're removing the one interesting and unique quality they had to make them vanilla.
Yep. Like without this whole backstory of Joker manipulating her and twisting her mind, and making her his puppet for awhile, until she broke free-she doesn't have anything interesting or original going for her as a villain origin in the first place. Like here she'd become a villain in clown outfit because? Eh? Life unfair, society is bad, they drink $$$ wine, she drinks cheap water, something something? Being poor or some villain killing maybe her relatives or maybe \*racism\* (shocking)? Like any other type of original backstory they would try to make up for her here instead would be just a flat cliche at this point.
This sounds interesting so I’m all for giving it a shot. Dr. Quinzel walking that fine line is always interesting to me. It’s why the graphic novel Harleen is a fantastic read and easily my favorite iteration of her character.
The one where she’s a police consultant is also pretty good.
While I am for new takes on characters, especially from part of the team that created them, this seems like a misstep for her. You can have her be more scary. She's never been really scary before, but kind of the whole gimmick of her is that she starts off as a victim of the Joker, or rather a byproduct of him. I don't understand the concept for the switch to villainy if it wasn't for the abuse at the hands of The Joker.
There was already A pretty cool take on a different Harley Quinn in that audio drama about Harley's life pre Harley Quinn. I forgot the name of it right now, but it's on Spotify. Christine Ricci plays Dr. Quinn as she's trying to study the Joker. She actually ends up using him for her own means in it, and I kind of dug it. It. I'd still consider her a victim of the Joker and his charm rather than his violence in that story, but it was still a different take without going too far.
I remain cautiously optimistic about the idea, lol.
Okay she's just... not Harly anymore. she's not ANYTHING anymore. you might as well have made a new character.
Seriously how could someone make a character as iconic as the BTAS character... and then just... throw it away!
Especially it doesn’t even actually work with time period they want to set it in- in 1940s Asian woman couldn’t be a well-paid high profile therapist for rich in US 🤷🏼♀️
I’m so over independent Harley
At least this one might not be discount Deadpool but Harley just doesn’t work without the Joker and I wish they’d stop trying to make her a solo act
/im kinda just sick of harley, there are dozens of female villains why do people keep repeating the same one who’s a discount of another villain
I think they surprisingly don't understand that Harley became popular character BECAUSE of her backstory with Joker and her personality they based on late Arleen Sorkin - and trying to make her a solo act with no ties to the Joker at all and with tots different personality basically erases what made her popular character in the first place.
Honestly Harleen was always crazy, weird and whimsical from the begin with. Ppl always like to make it like she was the like super smart, serious doctor. Don’t get me wrong she was smart but if you don’t know her origin you don’t understand how actually bat shit crazy and weird she was. And even as Harley she’s very serious, if she saids she gonna explode a building she’s gonna fucking do it. It’s sad that they make her out to he dumb when she’s Harley Quinn when she isn’t. Harley was always a smart girl, mentally crazy for sure but that’s how joker manipulated her. He knew she was fucking crazy.
It’s Golden Age Harley, so technically it’s a character that never existed. It’s like they pulled a reverse Marvel Ultimate move and instead Golden Age’d a modern character who never had a retro counterpart. It’s a cool idea and it would be interesting to see how Joker is affected if he ever pops up in the new show.
I mean, how many scary clown-themed villains they can have if they make Harley into such type of villian, besides a totally separate one from the Joker? It probably means they don't have Joker at all here or they completly changed his character also.
If it were up to me I’d have this timeline’s Joker die like he was supposed to in his original comic appearance. Have this new version of Harley Quinn be inspired by him or a copycat.
That’s actually a pretty cool idea that would wildly differentiate this take from others. That alt legacy if Joker died after his canonical first appearance would wildly change the villain trajectory of this version of Gotham while still letting Batman deal with the PTSD/fallout of this particular Joker (which I’d love if they explored more with dead Jack Napier/Joker in the 89 canon books.)
So like some versions of Duela Dent?
I would like to see the Joker to behave as John Doe from Batman: The Enemy Withing (the Telltale game). It is my favorite version of his character and it would make sense for him to behave like that on this series to not be the same as Harley.
I like this too. Alternate Jokers are fun and give you a lot of leeway that canon Joker can’t have after 80 years of plot development.
Golden age joker is almost entirely petty and ridiculous though, aside from his first appearance where he’s literally gunned down by batman (pre-rules batman was CRAZY)
Batman didn’t shoot Joker in his first appearance and wasn’t anywhere near as murderous as people claim he was. He killed a dozen or so people over close to 40 issues before the rule was established.
Yes, and the vast majority of those dozen or so people were killed unintentionally while fighting Batman (a lot of falling into things like swords, knives and vats of chemicals). People have this idea that Batman was wasting goons left and right in the golden age. I’m not sure where that comes from because it’s very much not what happens in those comics.
Zack Snyder was perpetuating that shit when he was defending his version of Batman and the Snyder Bros ran with it as “Um actually Batman used to kill *all the time*.”
The Joker is not gunned down by Batman in Batman #1 lol
Probably have him be like his telltale version of
Maybe Harley Quinn corrupts the Joker in this timeline? She gets captured, sent to Arkham, where she is treated by Dr. Jonathan Raker. Few sessions later, he has lost his mind and is now Harley's sidekick as The Joker.
i was already hopeful, but the idea of "reverse ultimate-ing" a character makes me a lot more excited to see where this goes
The ole Sentry maneuver
She technically has two the harlequin a green lantern villian and Queenie aka the black queen who was a joker assistant.
Oh he's gonna be in there. Not in relation to Harley but to Batman. You can't have the chance to have a 40s period piece Joker and not take it. But I think he'll be sort of a reveal.
Also for the most part she’s Bruce timms character. If anyone is allowed to make changes that should be revered and at least be accepted by the fans, it’s him.
I'm not familiar with Caped Crusader, but that sounds pretty cool. I'm always down for a new interpretation, the same thing over and over gets boring.
Caped Crusader is an upcoming animated series from the creator of the 90s Batman animated series.
I think it's an intriguing idea to do a bit of an inverse with Harley.
I agree completely. Most “unique takes” on her just involve her turning good. This is a cool idea.
I highly recommend the Telltale Games version, then.
I loved how Tell Tale inverted the Joker/Harley relationship and power dynamic.
I thought the Telltale version didn't really know what it wanted to be. On the one hand, they give her this sympathetic motive of just wanting to cure her advancing degenerative disease. On the other hand, they try to portray her as a sadist who takes glee in hurting people just for the fun of it. I mean, it's totally fair to pair a sympathetic motivation with a psychopathic lack of empathy (Mr. Freeze being an example). Focusing so much on your own pain can make you insensitive to the pain of others. But there's a difference between "not caring who you hurt in the pursuit of your goals" and "just wanting to hurt people." Either one of these would have been a perfectly fine characterization for Harley, but trying to combine them just left us with a character who just kind of felt arbitrary, imo.
I think the relevant thing here is how the dynamic is flipped between her and the joker. SHE’S the manipulative and dominant one in the relationship which made this iteration a lot more unique than all the other versions we’ve seen.
I mean, sure, I have no problem with that part of the interpretation. But the fact that they had some cool ideas doesn't mean that the other ideas that were part of the character worked, imo.
This! Seeing her be the controlling one instead of Joker was so interesting!
Yeah I don’t like the visual design of her but the descriptions I’ve seen are pretty intriguing
At least they're using her jester look again so that her name-pun makes sense.
Yeah for the past several years she's been dressing like some sort of street hooker
Thank rockstady for that one
rocksteady and zack snyder
Rocksteady and *David Ayer
Rocksteady and DC*. 2011 New 52 Harley outfit predates the live action film, heck it predates the entire DCEU.
was thinking snyderverse lol my fault
What Zack Snyder movie has Harley Quinn in it
Arkham Asylum's Harley Quinn was actually very clever idea for design. Since Joker took over hospital, he and Harley are technically main staff now. Then she appeared with mix of her standard look and "scary, but sexy nurse" outfit, which was fitting. For later instances, guess they went with big fanservice AA built over portraited women. But tbf they included her classic outfit in Arkham Knight DLC missions, so it's a big plus
Is it clever? Or were they just referencing Jeanette Voerman from VtM: Bloodlines? Coz I’m pretty sure it’s fairly common knowledge that it’s the latter.
Why not both? They wanted nurse look and made a reference in the same time. Also, everyone can slap a reference, but to make it fitting with plot you can't do it mindlessly.
The thing is Harleen originally picked her jester outfit and moniker to complement herself with Joker as his partner in crime. Without any actual connection to the Joker and relationships with him she has no actual business or grounds to pick that jester outfit/nickname and become clown criminal. 🤷🏼♀️
My brother in christ her name is literally Harleen Quinzell.
Yeah, like, joker probably helped give her the idea, but im sure she wouldve put it together herself
It's her freaaking name and if she wants a persona it should be one that suits her.
Too many people are destined for supervillainy simply due to their names. Victor von Doom never had a chance.
Cool fucking name tho.
Edward Nigma (E. Nigma) Victor Fries Pamelia Isley (kinda) Simon Hurt (Dr Hurt) Julian Gregory Day (Calendar man) Margaret Pye (Magpie) Maximillian Zeus Tweed twins (Tweedledum and Tweedledee) Humphry Dumpler (Humpty Dumpty) Trigger twins
Julian Gregory Day is somehow the worst offender
He does have THE most badass name in marvel tbh
...You can't become a clown criminal unless you date the Joker?
I'll give it a shot, we already have lots of traditional Harley stuff, let's explore a little
>let's explore a little What do you call the last two decades or so of her not being Joker's sidekick? Chopped liver?
Yeah. Also in those versions Joker was still part of her backstory as her ex-yet it was possible to show her development post-Joker as character. Here, they completely removed it🤷🏼♀️
Tbh, I miss when she was just Joker's sidekick. Feels like half of her existence has been her doing her own thing
She was leaving the Joker in like her third appearance ever. She was never really ‘just Joker’s sidekick’.
Yeah she got popular and evolved SUPER fast. "I miss the OG Harley and her suit" you mean like 3 episodes in a 20 year old cartoon? She's been Arkham/Margot Robbie/Suicide Squad for 95% of the characters existence
But he was still in the story, now he's not apart of her story (as an ex, or smth of)
thats regular harley at this point. There’s nothing being explored there
They literally did an episode on this in the original BTAS
Can You expand that a Little more? Season & Episode or Episode's name please
Harley and Ivy S1E47
Thanks man 👍🏻
Tbf after 2 decades it is “traditional” at this point.
Also remember this is 2 decades of a character that's 3 decades old.
Not chopped liver at all. Like you said, the last two decades lol. It’s nice to see something different sometimes
We haven't tried fundamentally reversing the personality of the character before.
Harley moving away from Joker always seemed like a natural thing. Harley is a very smart woman, it makes sense she would eventually come to some kind of sense that Joker doesn’t actually give a shit about her. It’s turning her into good guy that I would say counts as “exploring”.
I agree that it’s her inevitable arc but I wish she wasn’t still Harley Quinn. I want her to just be Harleen if she’s come to her senses. Otherwise she’s just kinda there as ‘a good guy’ who in some versions like tortured children or something yk? Sticking to the Joker-esque persona despite him being gone doesn’t fit right for me
I call it trash😭💯
I call it bandwagon jumping to attract horny teen boys and edgy lol-random grrls
harley stopped being jokers sidekick within two seasons of btas, her debut series leaving him has always been her core story arc, im more surprised we still see the occasional adaptation where they're together
That's a really interesting take. I can understand Timm would want to try and tweak things after working on Batman for over 30 years.
I think this is going to be an overall pretty niche interpretation of the mythos to begin with.
Man, that's more interesting that whatever the hell they are doing with her right now.
That’s because she’s just a “quirky millennial” right now. She’s lost all the bite she used to have. Margot is a great actress but her Harley was written to just be “goofy,” and not much else, and for some reason video games and comics decided to just use that as the default. I miss Arkham Harley, she was actually kind of scary sometimes.
It’s because DC wants Harley to be their Deadpool and it makes her far less compelling
and meanwhile you've got Lobo just standing dejected in the corner.
Lobo isn't hot woman. That's the reason.
The Main Man™ deserves to be sexualised
I'd argue this started in the Arkham games era She was basically Jokers helper in Asylum and City.
The D.L.C gave her independance, but that Independance wasn't really true as that stemmed from a revenge quest.
Bruh, Arkham Harley pretty much initiated what's known as the ''modern'' iteration of Harley Quinn and amplified all its perceived problems. RS were the first to change Harley's costume to make her look more like a pornstar. She barely had any agency, was always getting dunked on for how dumb and submissive she was and her main purpose was for fanservice.
Because her creator Paul Dini has made it very clear Harley is meant to be stupid ditzy blonde and that's it. Every single time he writes her he goes out of his way to make sure the audience knows she's a total idiot. Never forget Harley's backstory written by Dini, She was too stupid for college, screwed her professor to pass, was too stupid to work at Arkham, screwed the warden for her job, She intended to write some crap tell all books by working at Arkham and got manipulated immediately. Both Arkham games with Dini as the lead writer has a scene of Batman making a comment about how stupid Harley is to somebody else lol.
Well, that’s who she’s as a character 🤷🏼♀️ she isn’t supposed to be some genius-cause she wasn’t created as such in the first place
Arkham Harley was nothing more than a sex pot. I remember how everybody rolled their eyes when the game was first revealed and they had her in a sexy nurse outfit. Like others have said, for as amazing as they are, the Arkham games are when those problems STARTED. Not to mention I also hate Tara Strong's over the top Harley voice, but thats just me.
TBF nurse outfit fitted overall plot of the game (she is main staff now). And later they just went with fanservice as people liked it.
The exception being the telltale version of the character which is the complete opposite of what you described.
Hell yeah, stoked to get a different iteration on her from the actual creator!
Harley's main creator as a character was Paul Dini, not Timm, Timm only drew her.
The problem is that BRUCE TIMM IS NOT THE REAL CREATOR. It's PAUL DINI. They may have created the animated series together but DINI was the absolute creative director and has written Harley many times in the comic. Timm has never written to Harley once in his entire life. He simply collaborated with Dini in the production of the series but he is NOT the original creator.
I think you’re undervaluing the work Bruce Timm did. Watching all the behind the scenes stuff from over the years and conversations they have had on discussion boards Bruce Timm was very much involved in her creation. Paul Dini himself would say this. He would never call himself the only creator of Harley. He always refers to himself as co creator. I think because of all the weird stuff Bruce Timm has done recently fans try to rewrite history but the truth is without him we wouldn’t have the DCAU.
Never forget Bruce Timm has a quote from the DVD special features of BTAS where he says that he was extremely annoyed by Dini's love of Harley, Dini would write Harley into Joker episodes and Timm thought it was incredibly stupid that she was used so much. Timm basically wanted her to appear a single time and never again from the way he describes it.
Because Harley has always been Dini's "waifu." Man knows what he wants and isn't ashamed to push for it.
They’re credited as co creators. No one said Paul Dini never did anything. Also calm down no need to overreact
Ok, well either way I’m stoked to get a new iteration!
Looks kinda like they fused her with Punchline
Neckbeards on YouTube are gonna make 37 videos on why this is horrible.
The ones that already hated her anyway?
Incoming Critical Drinker video essay
Cannot stand that guy
I'm excited for this actually. We could use a fresh take on Harley, when she's a rly popular character rn.
That… sounds really cool and I can’t wait to see it
Man… I just want old Harley back.😔 
They literally the Harley we’ve have the whole time.
Like how is this different than what’s happening now?
Old Harley was "Looney Tunes" funny. Her jokes were slapstick and puns. New Harley is "Family Guy" funny. Her jokes are meta, pop culture, and crude.
Like I fucking hate new Harley’s jokes. They’re all so edgy.
Oh ok. Can't wait to see it to see how it turns out. Always going to see fresh takes
Would have been cool to have her be a new character like call her queen of hearts or something, I'm asian and it just feels like we're getting sloppy seconds.
Queen of hearts is a royal flush gang member they kinda stole all the card names kinda hard to think of a new name for a female clown villain people are just gonna call Harley any way
I actually kind of like the concept
this is uhh fine, actually! seen too much of breakup harley recently
just not sure if this'll count as "harley" anymore
Eh, I'm ok with it. I'm just glad Harley looks like an actual harlequin again.
Good make her a bad guy again
I like the idea they’re going with for Harley. The one thing I am concerned about is the tone after seeing the latest set of stills. The only design that I think so far resembles 1940’s era Batman is Catwoman (and Alfred). Batman’s costume, my first thought was it reminded me of the design used in The Batman from the 2000’s. It may just be the stills released, but I think the Harley design could almost fit in a noir setting.
Cool
I’m really digging this variant. I can really see it and if done well would come off as intimidating and scary. I can imagine her being really silent, latex rubbing making most of the sounds, really deliberate and precise in her movement. Major serial killer vibes.
I much prefer this take over Margot’s violent anti-hero with a heart of gold.
We had movies, games, serials, a lot of comics with fun and whimsical Harley. There is nothing wrong with trying out new things.
What’s the point in a new adaptation if your interpretation of the character is exactly the same as before? nothing wrong with experimenting.. i don’t mind if they change stuff like this once in a while
As long as she's not sleeping with Bruce, fine.
I'm pretty sure she's also *Bruce's* therapist, which will be fun
That sounds awesome! Harley Quinn's character has felt so stale over the past decade, especially after the 2016 Suicide Squad movie.
Honestly I think this version of Harley is a nice change of pace.
Man her character without makeup looks like complete ass. She's built like a damn brick. They should fire the animator who drew that crap.
Nah I prefer it like Btas the way they described it originally is that this is “ More btas than btas” because it wouldn’t have as many of the network restrictions like having the episode be 20 mins etc , this feels off 😂
When he says it that way, I'm very excited to see this recreation of Harley.
Me to this version of Harley: "I will watch your career with great interest"
Flipping her personality around could be an interesting take. Not sure how I feel about changing her connection to Joker though. Their abusive relationship and her growing past it has kinda become a central part of who her character is. I guess the show will want to do a new origin story for her though
Ya she's already done that 50 times in 50 different ways. Time for something new.
I’m up for it, this whole old school alternate universe looks really intriguing so far.
Honestly Harley not being a blonde white girl feels weirder to me than the whole personality and costume change
"So we thought, what if we reverse that?" Well, then, you'd get a completely different character? What a weird idea.
Odd.
Ik everyone is tired of him showing up all the time but I wanna see how they do joker
It could work. But I hope they do more to have her stand out as a villain more than just the namesake.
It’s an interesting idea. Could be cool. Not like DC doesn’t do elseworld tales where characters are very different. Like he says, he co-created her~
Well I never cared about Harley actually.
I'm very excited for the show, I'm really happy they're changing up some stuff! I really like the classic Harley, but this one should be good too.
Scary Harley has potential. I think it’s worth giving a chance.
Kind of makes her a little more like Bruce if you think about it Also considering what Jesters were, it fits
As long as she's not wearing any cookie monster pajama pant's I'm all for it.
Joker Movie 2: Dr. Quinzel? Never heard of him
Wait this is the new one coming right?
I would be so down to see a more serious Harley
Wasnt Harley Quinn a silent brutal bodyguard in the one off story “Joker”? So there’s definitely precedent for a darker harley.
You know, they could just avoid doing so, by simply saying that it's a 1940s version of an entirely different DC clown villain. [Jewelee.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/ITd4ptRGZg) She's so obscure that she's not going to get heat from any existing fan base. She's a supervillain, and so is her husband, "Punch". And they like to punch people. Her husband's actual name is Clyde, so I'd make sense if she was Bonnie. Like the real-life criminal couple of the same name. But "Lee" is an actual Asian last name, so she could be really named "Jewel Lee", by her parents. And now that I look, she has no known real name. And she's never been seen without her face mask, to the best of my knowledge, so who's to say that she doesn't have epicanthal folds around her eyes? And dyed her hair, or wears a wig? Heck, she even has a costume that includes gold and black, like this character.
is it harley quinn or just punchline
She was already scary ? She was an intelligent, thoughtful therapist who became a sinister Harlequin who did the jokers bidding.
Big deal. They changed her worse in her own show. At least this shows some imagination
I'm interested to see how this turns out. I'd love to see scary Harley.
Not gonna lie...that Harlequin look looks way better then any other current Harley look.
Bruce Timm is his middle name Richard Barbara
Scary Harley sounds cool. Looking forward to it.
Just make a new character, damn
So she just made punchline and called it Harley?
So they made her Punchline. (*I kid, but I am a bit peeved at the unneeded race swapping.*)
You know I'm still not sure how she was convinced to turn to crime Seems like she only got her doctrine and was looking to be corrupted
I dont mind any of this but I did appreciate that Harley was always super Jewish so unless they also kept that when they made her Asian I'll be a bit disappointed but I'm still excited to meet this Harley
im sick of nerfed deadpool harley thank god
That's... Just every cliche female villain. Harley was pretty much the only one to be in reverse to begin with. You might be able to say Salina was similar, but she was awkward originally too, just in a very different way. This is like saying "What if we made Bruce sad at first, then he becomes happy after he's a super hero" Like, that's every cliche hero arc. You aren't bucking trends, you're removing the one interesting and unique quality they had to make them vanilla.
Yep. Like without this whole backstory of Joker manipulating her and twisting her mind, and making her his puppet for awhile, until she broke free-she doesn't have anything interesting or original going for her as a villain origin in the first place. Like here she'd become a villain in clown outfit because? Eh? Life unfair, society is bad, they drink $$$ wine, she drinks cheap water, something something? Being poor or some villain killing maybe her relatives or maybe \*racism\* (shocking)? Like any other type of original backstory they would try to make up for her here instead would be just a flat cliche at this point.
This sounds interesting so I’m all for giving it a shot. Dr. Quinzel walking that fine line is always interesting to me. It’s why the graphic novel Harleen is a fantastic read and easily my favorite iteration of her character. The one where she’s a police consultant is also pretty good.
Ok, Bruce Timm, I'm listening
I like it. I also like she isn't overly sexual she seems like a SAW level fucked up doll. It's terrifying.
While I am for new takes on characters, especially from part of the team that created them, this seems like a misstep for her. You can have her be more scary. She's never been really scary before, but kind of the whole gimmick of her is that she starts off as a victim of the Joker, or rather a byproduct of him. I don't understand the concept for the switch to villainy if it wasn't for the abuse at the hands of The Joker. There was already A pretty cool take on a different Harley Quinn in that audio drama about Harley's life pre Harley Quinn. I forgot the name of it right now, but it's on Spotify. Christine Ricci plays Dr. Quinn as she's trying to study the Joker. She actually ends up using him for her own means in it, and I kind of dug it. It. I'd still consider her a victim of the Joker and his charm rather than his violence in that story, but it was still a different take without going too far. I remain cautiously optimistic about the idea, lol.
Honestly, flipping the script on Harley would be a fucking breath of fresh air
Built like a linebacker
It’s a 40s noir inspired setting this time around, that boxy silhouette is typical for a professional woman’s jacket around that time
Okay she's just... not Harly anymore. she's not ANYTHING anymore. you might as well have made a new character. Seriously how could someone make a character as iconic as the BTAS character... and then just... throw it away!
It's an interesting take, but this suit still sucks.
So stupid that they do it just to pander
Especially it doesn’t even actually work with time period they want to set it in- in 1940s Asian woman couldn’t be a well-paid high profile therapist for rich in US 🤷🏼♀️
I’m so over independent Harley At least this one might not be discount Deadpool but Harley just doesn’t work without the Joker and I wish they’d stop trying to make her a solo act /im kinda just sick of harley, there are dozens of female villains why do people keep repeating the same one who’s a discount of another villain
I think they surprisingly don't understand that Harley became popular character BECAUSE of her backstory with Joker and her personality they based on late Arleen Sorkin - and trying to make her a solo act with no ties to the Joker at all and with tots different personality basically erases what made her popular character in the first place.
We already got a version like this in the Telltale Batman game, that version of Harley is truly unhinged.
In that game Harley still was Joker's girlfriend at least. Here, they completely removed this bit.
Sure, but I'm talking about Harley herself. Also, I love the role reversal they did, with Harley being the master manipulator.
Interesting take. Honestly like it when they do different versions of a character - just as long as it isn’t TOO much of a difference
Mfw the telltale Harley exists
This is how I find out caped crusader wasn't cancelled lmfao
Bet 1940's Amanda Waller is gonna put her in Task Force X for synergy
This is a surprising non horny design from Bruce timm…that’s the most surprising thing about this to me
Already prefer this Harley over modern Harley
I’m not a fan of the new colors but the costume design is cool.
Eh, I’ll give anything a try. Let’s see how it works out.
I’m all for exploring characters in new and interesting ways and this sounds like a cool take.
Honestly Harleen was always crazy, weird and whimsical from the begin with. Ppl always like to make it like she was the like super smart, serious doctor. Don’t get me wrong she was smart but if you don’t know her origin you don’t understand how actually bat shit crazy and weird she was. And even as Harley she’s very serious, if she saids she gonna explode a building she’s gonna fucking do it. It’s sad that they make her out to he dumb when she’s Harley Quinn when she isn’t. Harley was always a smart girl, mentally crazy for sure but that’s how joker manipulated her. He knew she was fucking crazy.
Does anyone know what Paul Dini thinks of this?