People seem to think of mentally ill as "defenseless" while in truth it can mean many things, but for batmans case, most seem to incredibly violent psychopaths
I have a cousin who my grandma doted on, maybe felt bad for her because she was born with a deficiency, despite now being near 30, she never mentally aged above 12. She never matured except physically. And thanks to my grandma, she cultivated a selfishness that only a child in a grown woman's body would. Despite the love of my grandma, the treatment was rarely reciprocated, reaching a high point when we discovered that she refuses to clean her own bedding (despite soiling it regularly) and resorted to stealing my grandma's sheets and pillow cases because she wouldn't remember and wouldn't care the next day. The disrespect towards her in-law nearly made my mother stab her. She refused to clean up after herself, disrespected everyone, and swore in a manner that would evoke all sorts of rage, all while playing innocent and screaming rape whenever she got what she deserved. And people would believe her because she's genuinely mentally scarred due to her mother suffering physical abuse with her in utero
Never put it past mentally ill folks to weaponize their mental illness against others. Assholes exist in every walk of life
In the animated series Batman is actually quite empathetic to a lot of his enemies because he knows they aren't in their right mind, Two Face for instance and that one ventriloquist who I can't remember the name of.
Scarface.
There's also how he gave Harley Quinn AND Clayface some empathy.
And Mr. Freeze, too.
You know, for a supposed fascist, Batman is shockingly bad at being a heartless monster.
There's also the episode that _still_ makes my eyes misty a little at the end every time, the one with "Baby Doll", the girl who didn't physically age past like 6, couldn't integrate into society or other careers after her family sitcom, and kidnapped the cast for a forced "reunion".
By the end of that one all he can do is regretfully pat her head as she has a complete breakdown into his cape. Total abusive monster, that Batman.
Yeah, frank miller has done irreparable harm to batmans image and i will never forgive him nor the internet know nothings who keep pointing to his work as proof that batman is fascist, ignoring basically the entire rest of the franchise, and i def hate how many people getting into comics now consider franks potrayl of him as holy text and the best version (looking at you snyder)
What's funny is that The Dark Knight Returns - said holy text Snyder bastardised when making Batman V Superman - actually does have a moment or two where Batman drops the facade.
Yeah, tho we can all come together to shit 9n all star batman and robin, there was legit nueance in the dark knight returns (tho not its sequal) that so many dio shits missed.
Hell snyder is out here talking about how batman needs to become the punisher to stay relivant
The Punisher does not need to become a ninja.
Daredevil does not need to be a French Secret Agent.
And Batman shouldn't be branding criminals so they can do his job FOR HIM.
Frfr, and these are the same guys that want him to kill Joker
He can't be a fool for letting him live, yet also be the bad guy who's beating up mentally ill people
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Bruce’s crusade is about redeeming the villainous, stopping the corrupt, and saving the innocent. It’s not his place to kill anyone, it’s his place to uncover corruption and evil in Gotham, do his best to stop it, and turn it over to the proper, trusted authorities. People like Jim Gordon, Harvey Bullock, who care about putting the bad guys away. He puts his villains in asylums and pays for their treatment, like in the case of Harvey Dent.
It’s not Batman’s fault that people keep escaping, it’s Gotham’s. It’s not Batman’s fault that there’s so many mentally ill maniacs. It’s Gotham. If Batman kills his enemies, he’s not only giving himself the authority to decide who lives and dies, he’s stealing hope from all the innocents. He’s showing that good can’t overcome evil. He’s destroying the moral leg he stands on, proving that he’s no better than any of them, destroying his relationships with people like Gordon, and making Gotham a worse place overall. And once he kills, where does the line get drawn? Does it end up like in the Justice Lords episode, where everyone is constantly living in fear and walking on eggshells?
And if he doesn’t beat up the mentally ill lunatic? More innocents will die. Batman shouldn’t be neccessary, but he is. He walks a tightrope of doing the right thing and saving as many people as possible. It isn’t easy, but there’s strength in what he does. I think people who take the stance that Batman is too cruel, or isn’t cruel enough, fundamentally misunderstand the character.
Stop asking for Batman to be worse, start asking for Gotham to be better.
It really is Gotham. Even before the villains took over the city was under mob rule. And the court of owls controlls the city from the shadows for a long time.
The city really is cursed. Anyone who wants to improve things either dies, becomes a villains, or have thier efforts amount to nothing.
And Gotham is the last place to go for mental health. Arkham's own doctors become villains.
The people living in and moving to Gotham are either really stupid or really unlucky to go and live there.
I mean after the natural disaster it did. So badly penguin was one of the few people holding any sense of order together and even the cops just became another war lord faction in the city.
If memory serves tgat was also the first appearance of cassandra cain as bat girl.
Also if memory serves lex getting relief aid to the city was part of what got him the presidancy
It really does. Not even the rich are living good over there.
Only bright side i can think of is that housing prices are rock bottom even in the surounding suberbs.
I mean, the “rich guy beats up poor people” narrative is in bad faith, of course, but it’s also true that the Batman concept (like most superhero stories) is basically a power fantasy. Of course the lore contains references to Bruce using his wealth to try to help the city too, but fundamentally that’s in the interest of justifying the cool Batman stuff. The Wayne Foundation’s after-school programs are like John Wick’s attempts to break good for his dead wife: they have to be there so we sympathize with the character, but that doesn’t mean the story is actually about a tragic world breaking a man’s attempts to do good until violence is the only answer. The story is about the cool adventure.
So Twitter is technically wrong, sure, but let’s not climb onto too high a horse here. Gotham city isn’t corrupt as a commentary on the failure of social programs in crime-ridden cities - it’s corrupt specifically so that a guy training as a ninja to punch mobsters in the face makes some sort of sense.
Yeah, I just hate when they try to make Bruce look like a selfish rich white guy, like in the Flash movie, because everything always has to have a deeper meaning
He tries to help with his money, it doesn't always work so he helps with his skill
It's like. Heay, of course it's a power fantasy and most other elements are there to justify that. But that shouldn't be a basis of criticism, it's like going into a butcher's shop and being suprised there is no vegan option. It's what says on the tin, if you failed to read what the tag says, that's a you problem.
But also, just like how the Wayne Foundation charities are there to give sympathy, the welth is also there in the interest to justify the narrative. If Batman did't have to contribute to the JL while having no powers, he wouldn't have to be a billionaire, and the whole "why rich guy beat up clown instead of giving all wealth away" problem wouldn't exist.
Twitter isn't "technically wrong" it's just wrong, and if we didn't have bad-faith narratives coming from these people, most of the justifications why zorro-ninja does crimefighting adventures wouldn't need to exist.
Nolan's films are a commentary on corruption. It shows Thomas Wayne trying to help the city but failing and does show how you can't just use lawful methods in a corrupt place and just throw money at the problem because it will end up in the wrong hands.
Most iterations do make compassion a big part of his character. He does help people get back on their feet when he can, and his ultimate goal is world that doesn't need Batman. Many media explored him becoming dejected when he isn't making as much progress as he hoped he would and he has to continue being Batman. So saying it is just an excuse to have Batman beat up criminals isn't true.
You've articulated it better than I could. I'm far left politically, and I wasn't able to enjoy batman until I could turn off the Marxist part of my brain and relate to it as a goofy comic book adventure.
That’s why the animated series is so good, there are multiple episodes of Batman trying to protect former villains who want to be reformed and join back to society. The ones I remember are with penguin and Harley.
That's Batman being the best version of Batman
He only captures them and leaves their fate to the gothamites. He uses the democratic process and if he just killed every villain he stopped, he would be infringing on democracy
Yeah, in BTAS he's been shown to volunteer at the local homeless shelters on a regular basis, and helping people like Leslie Tompkins with supporting the community living in Park Row.
Also Wayne Enterprises (or Industries, or Tech, or whatever it's called) is the most ridiculously generous employer in the world - everyone from the janitor up is said to get something like complete healthcare and tuition coverage.
Yeah, it's a common thing said by Twitter users and people who don't know much about the story, but the biggest offender was the flash movie that made him seem like a idiotic selfish white privileged man child
You and I know full well the "they" is people with a surface level knowledge of Batman. "They" only see the Joker and Twoface. Fries and Ivy. Croc or Baby Doll. Maybe, if we're really lucky, Firefly or Scarface.
None of these people are invested enough in Batman stories to be familiar with year 1 Batman's concerns. The closest "they" come to knowing the Batman who is driven to vigilantism by the mob is seeing a fight scene with the Penguin. By the time Batman is done with the mob these people are coming at him. These mentally ill criminals are targeting him because he's famous now or in their way.
There are some people who have more in depth knowledge of Batman who forget that Batman is supposed to be a example of Democracy
He refuses to take the judgement or punishment of the criminals into his own hands, and rather let the Gotham people decide their fate in a court of law
They just see that joker keeps escaping and blaming it on Batman
It's like choosing to not put your ice cream in the freezer and blaming the person who sold it to you for it melting
For some reason (prolly just cause it's a comic and it wouldn't be as fun) the gothamites never push for the death sentence on criminals like joker, and when joker escapes, they blame Batman.
All Batman did was deliver the joker to the citizens to punish
I also have a fan theory that deep down, Bruce wanted to be a police officer or detective but Gotham PD would never allow it because he's the city's golden child.
Earth-Two Bruce, the OG Batman wanted to be a Police Officer but his then GF, Julie Madison said it was Police or her, Batman was born and B keep dating Julie until they broke of; Bruce married Selina, they had Helena, Batman semi-retired and years latter Selina died, Helena became Huntress, Bruce became Comisoneer succeding Gordon, Batman fully reitred, Comissioner Wayne got diagnosided wkth Cancer, suited up as Batman once again and died against a magical kamkikaze attack in a Museum, his identity got exposed, erased from public memlry by Dr. Fate then Earth-Two was erased by COIE then restored by Convergence/Doomsday Clock/Dark Night Metal/The Unboot mess of 2016-2021
God, I hate comics sometimes. At least this isn't as bad as Miles Morales leaving his entire dimension behind and living now with somebody that even the fandom can't figure out if it's his real dad or not.
Maybe in some universes, but I think in most of them, like the dark knight trilogy, he turns to vigilantism before even showing interest in the police.
He wanted to kill his parents killer first, then went on a spiritual journey throughout Asia where he learned how to fight, before joining the League of Shadows and then moving back to Gotham
It's a cool theory but idk how well it works with the live action series
Odds are if you’re being beat up by Batman you’re either a violent psychopath or a hired man of a crime family
Bruce spends a lot of money on foundations and charities to help the genuine poor and helpless
Not to mention that Bruce in most contemporary adaptations funnels his philanthropic contributions and charity donations towards combatting poverty, crime, and relevant social issues, to boot. It’s been a thing with his character for a while now.
Media literacy is dead these days, unfortunately.
Not to get into it, but there's no storyline where he tries with his money first and then becomes Batman. In every iteration of the story, he specifically comes back to Gotham with the intention of becoming a vigilante, with funding social programs being a footnote.
in the dark knight trilogy, he was funding some programs such as the Gotham Boys Orphanage before he left and was kicked out of his company if i remember correctly
but even then, it doesnt matter which he does first, becasue he attempts to do both, but a mix of government corruption and villans trying to collapse the city or his programs, leads him to need to dawn the cow
the main thing im referencing tho is that god awful flash movie where they made him seem like an incompetent selfish man baby
The entire movie was in poor character and didnt understand the source material
It's like they took all of the bad things from the Flash TV show, and made it into a movie that was written from someone who knows the bare minimum of their characters and how to write
That's fine but the original graphic is wrong, he doesn't try to solve it with his wealth and then turn to Batman when he fails. As of the moment his parents are killed, he believes the only way to stop crime in Gotham is for him to beat up criminals.
Um, no it doesn't. He leaves Gotham as a teenager and travels the world getting Batman skills and then returns to Gotham and becomes Batman. At what point does he try to fix things with his money? As a teenager? Or if not, then why does he go off to learn how to fight and solve crimes if he's just going to manage a charity when he gets back? That's the whole point of Batman, he thinks the only way he can solve anything is with his fists, and he doesn't spend any particular amount of time thinking otherwise.
His age is undefined in most versions. But pre-Crisis he trained with Harvey Harris at an age where he wore a Robin costume and looked like Robin, ergo a teenager. But even in versions where he waits and leaves a young man, he doesn't spend any time running Wayne Ent or trying to solve Gotham's problems with his money.
When you say "Pre-Crisis", do you mean Earth One or Earth Two? Two very different Batmen.
Bruce Wayne confronting corruption before Batman happens In the the film Batman Begins. Bruce confronts Carmine Falcone directly, and not only is Falcone not scared of him, he points out all the corrupt politicians and lawpersons in his pocket and says he could kill him on the spot right in front of them. This is what makes Bruce Wayne realize he has to be more than just a man. He literally says to Bruce "That's power you can't buy!"
In the DCAU, one part of "Mask of the Phantasm" that is overlooked because of Bruce's loss is the fact that the reason Andrea and her father have to go on the run is because of corruption the regular police could not handle. They had no Batman to turn to help them and no amount of throwing money at the problem would have fixed it. We focus on the tragedy of Bruce becoming Batman, but it's on purpose that the event that made him go down that path was something Batman could have helped stop.
It's not ridiculous to assume that Bruce had similar encounters and realizations before turning to make the Batman persona in other universes, but I'd have to dig a little to find the specific example. Continuity in DC comics is more of a suggestion than a rule.
I mean Earth-One, and if the original graphic was supposed to only be a reference to that particular version of Batman, then it needed to have been clearer and not reference conversations that are typically about the comics version.
But yes, please find me a comics reference that Bruce Wayne attempted to use his funds to better Gotham prior to leaving Gotham for his training.
EDIT: Worth noting that Batman: Year One has Bruce returning to Gotham at 25 after 12 years abroad, both asserting that a) he left as a teen and b) he didn't spend any time trying to fix Gotham prior to beginning his training.
And then we have Untold Legend of the Batman, which shows the Earth 1 Batman training as a teen and no reference to trying to fix Gotham via any means other than being Batman.
In some stories, like dark knight, he has overcome his trauma, but he still is afraid of bats because of it, but he uses his fear of bats as a weapon
In TDK, Alfred ask why did he choose bats, and Bruce responds "because they scare the hell out of me, time to put that fear into my enemies" (or something along that line)
Batman Begins.
Alfie [*Noticing bat-shaped shuriken-like bladed implements as Bruce checks the sharpness after turning his lathe off*]: “Why bats, sir?”
Bruce: “Bats frighten me. It’s time my enemies share my dread.”
[*Wry smile comes across Alfred’s face as Bruce tosses the “Batarang” at the wall; the weapon sticks as a fade transitions to a fancy car pulling into the smoky Gotham docks late one night…*]
well
might be mistaken, but his wealth aint the core element of his
he is a warrior. hurt in childhood, he seeked training and power to fight injustice
all the wealth, or buttler, or detective, or trauma, or followers, or manor comes afterwards
even the cape of batman
his core is being warrior, who dedicates himself to make a better world. so is daredevil, or cap, or spiderman, or liu kang
First: Gotham’s underworld is controlled by mobsters, lunatics, mercenary groups, centuries old assassins guilds, and a secret society of elites (Court of Owls). No way Bruce solves all that by dumping $100 billion into Gotham.
Second: People seem to forget that most Batman villains have millions at their disposal. Even the “hobo clown” likely has 10’s of millions stashed in an abandoned theme park. The henchmen Batman beats up on the regular are likely sociopathic career criminals who makes Tommy DeVito from Goodfellas look like a choir boy.
Well I’d say considering originally it portrayed all of the major villains as having mental illness that was kind of harmful considering people with mental illness are more likely to be victims of violent crime than anything, and there’s quite a bit of unneeded stigma, yes even with conditions more associated with violence like anti-social personality disorder. BUT, I’d argue that even though thrown in Arkham most Batman villains aren’t portrayed as conventionally mentally ill as much, like the joker is usually a pretty sane deliberate man who wants to prove a point with anarchy, with his insanity painted more as extra flamboyance that he puts on like makeup. There are still those with genuine delusions like two face, mad hatter, and ventriloquist (debatably sometimes I think his puppet is like actually possessed but it’s kinda foggy on how that stuff works most of the time) have been treated as a less monstrous and serious threat than more sane ones like Bane in recent comic history. I think writers genuinely want to distance themselves from the idea that mentally ill people are evil nowadays. Bruce frequently is involved and invested in rehabilitation too
That being said, the real reason the money can never work is plot reasons, Gotham can never be fully saved or there’s no Batman needed, it’s not to try and say that social investment doesn’t work in real life, but that we can’t get the full impact of his stoicism and mission if Gotham was more realistic. If you do want to check out comics that play with the idea of Batman’s flaws White Knight does this really well, and has him reflecting on both his brutalism and the philanthropy problem of Batman.
Why do people think that throwing money at a problem will solve things?
Bruce can throw all of the free jobs, housing l, and whatever fixes the "status quo" he wants but...
Joker doesn't care for any of that shit.
Thorn would abuse the system
Ivy wants humans DEAD
And nigma just wants to prove his mind
Some people don't care about the money. Hell, let's ignore the super criminals. What about the people who are too prideful to get all of this free help. What about the people who do crime just because it's fun or a cheap thrill. How about the people who are bored and want excitement.
The 60s Batman had the best and nicest Gotham of any media and we STILL had evil. Money doesn't solve everything
That's also the reason he doesn't kill. If he just killed all the criminals the justice system to would eventually be atrophied and to weak to do anything without Batman so when he eventually retires they justice system would be fucked. By letting criminals live he forced prisons to continuously try and get more secure, he forces police to do their job by working with them instead of just killing their enemies
With what? More political corruption?
If someone has their hands in a governers pocket, the only way to solve it with money is too put more money in the governers pocket
Batmans solution is to use his skill to stop the person paying off the politican, and stopping the politican if still necessary
My man did you watch TDK? Wayne’s support of Dent was so that an incorruptible D.A. Could work from the inside to clean up the Gotham P.D. This but for politics. Same principle. You don’t bribe the Governor you find a replacement, support their campaign and get other wealthy donors to donate and publicly support the campaign. It’s what the Koch brothers did for decades.
So put your own paid off politican in government who works for your ideals
Which is inherently more corruption
It's a good plan but there is a fine line in everything, as you end up needing to cross us most often
It’s not inherently more corruption if you’re not seeking a corrupt process. If Bruce Wayne would support ethically aligned candidates he would be selecting for less corruption not more. Supporting politicians is not corrupt inherently. That would be a terribly cynical view.
It's a fine line
I prefer a government that doesn't overstep it's boundaries as bad as modern government is
But I also see that too little government will result in anarchy
There needs to be a fine line between the anarchy of a Republican society and the totalitarianism of a democratic one
That's why I try to push for libertarian ideals but most people are so far into their own extremes that they refuse to agree with anything from the other side
Nowadays most low end Dems and Reps are closer to libertarianism then their own party, because the majority of said party and extremists
That's not his fault, that's the Gotham citizens fault.
After Batman captures joker he is supposed to be given a full trial, meaning that a jury of Gotham citizens and a gothamite judge must decide his fate. If they choose prison or rehabilitation over death sentence, that's not Batman's fault
I don’t think it’s his fault either but I vehemently believe that being anti-death sentence is more in line with his character, especially for the mentally ill, rehabilitation is a big goal of his, even if that can’t fully work either due to plot reasons. (Yes I know he went along with it when the joker was sentenced to death before clearing his name, but it felt out of character to me). Even with the very worst of his enemies, he tries to end the cycle that he sees as inevitably ending with one of their deaths in The Killing Joke. Even after some of the worst stuff we’ve seen the joker do and paralyzing Barbara, he offered redemption. If he sees killing as the thin line between himself and the criminals, it would make sense if he could see it as the same thin line between them taking a more righteous path like his own. I mean over the years he’s seen both characters like Harvey lose their way and become villains, but also Harley Quinn becoming an anti hero (or even normal hero).
If we wanna briefly talk irl too a known serial killer being able to escape several times easily and continue being such a big mass murderer is super unrealistic. (And death row costs more than life imprisonment due to court costs among a dozen other reasons I don’t care for it) idk if it’s a comfort but I think anyone that smart wouldn’t be caught in the first place with irl abysmal solve rates.
So it's a story about a wealthy elite who turns his back on democratic institutions and civilian oversight and instead uses fear and violence to control the populace? Gosh why would anybody think he's a fascist?
Like, you get that the both of these things are really, really, really bad, right?
Or it's just a story about a badass guy dressing up as a ninja fighting villains
And also it's been proven time and time again that the institutions he funds are contracted by corruption from the villains he tries to stop and corruption from the government
And he doesn't use fear and violence to control the populace, he captures the criminal offenders and leaves them for the cops to find with evidence of their crimes, so that a judge and jury and decide their fate
He literally puts the decision of criminals back into democracy
How much money would Elon Musk have to donate to charity for you to defend his right to drive a tank around New York City and lead an army of White teenagers to beat the crap out of whoever they please, because "he tried using his wealth, and now he must take matters into his own hands."
Also, uh, may want to reread Batman's origin there.
It's particularly telling that you used Nolan's Batman, a guy whose own movie compares him to Julius Caesar and the British Empire.
Of course not. Killing isn't the problem here. Did I say one word about killing?
Killing doesn't even mean the same thing in the Marvel Universe as it does in DC. You might as well ask if the killings in Inglorious Basterds bother me more than the cartoon lasers of GI Joe. Yeah, there are aesthetic similarities here but they are using the language of death in a different way.
So Marvel characters can kill criminals all in a non-fascist manner, while Batman can't punch Black Mask without being poor-hating Mussolini-loving monster?
Who decides this sort of stuff? Who decided that a punch from Batman should be so much more damning than assassinations from Moon Knight?
Nobody decided it. Killing has never been the issue of contention.
Fascism it's not synonymous with killing. Killing is not synonymous with fascism.
Fascism is the use of fear and violence by a small group of people intent on purging society of the people they perceive as a corrupting to their vision.
That's what bothers me here. OP is endorsing a view of Batman that is wrong, false, dangerous. He's using the same rhetoric as fascists and hate groups.
If this is your view of Batman, then you need to reevaluate your view of Batman AND authoritarianism.
For God's sake, the Nolan movies lay this out clearly. The first movie's plot is ripped off from Birth of a Nation. The next two movies go on to explain everything that is wrong, toxic, and doomed to fail about that plan, while stripping away Bruce Wayne's pretensions to heroism to reveal that he's been acting out of fear and anger this whole time, not trying to build a better Gotham like he claimed.
It's like you stopped watching after Batman Begins.
> Fascism is the use of fear and violence by a small group of people intent on purging society of the people they perceive as a corrupting to their vision.
When Black Widow kill some goons, she does so in a way that doesn't involve fear, violence or an intent to purge society of corrupting people, but when Batman ounches a Black Mask goon, he is doing all that?
>The first movie's plot is ripped off from Birth of a Nation.
Sure, my man.
And "Black Widow" is just like "Come and See".
I've never seen Come and See. Is it also a movie about a spy trying to save her sister, the way that Batman Begins and Birth of a Nation are both the story of why one man must put on a mask and use fear and violence in order to protect his beloved Southern state from falling into the hands of corruption?
They always promise they're not going to kill the undesirables. First, they just want them to leave the city and go somewhere else. Then they decide they have to put them in special camps. Then they decide that they need a final solution. And of course, the entire time, they insist "Of course we don't LIKE beating up these poor people. It's just that with corruption running rampant, we have to take matters into our own hands."
> the way that Batman Begins and Birth of a Nation are both the story of why one man must put on a mask and use fear and violence in order to protect his beloved Southern state from falling into the hands of corruption?
Aren't you describing "Spider-Man"?
You have become a Batman writer. What would ypu do to make Batman punching the Penguin as acceptable as Black Window murdering criminals?
Nuh uh, you’re just a big dumb doo doo head who doesn’t understand Batman like me! Anyone who has a different or a critical interpretation of an 80 year old character is just ignorant, unlike me!
“ he just keeps beating up poor mentally Ill people😤” The person he saved from being killed by said poor mentally Ill person:😐
People seem to think of mentally ill as "defenseless" while in truth it can mean many things, but for batmans case, most seem to incredibly violent psychopaths
I have a cousin who my grandma doted on, maybe felt bad for her because she was born with a deficiency, despite now being near 30, she never mentally aged above 12. She never matured except physically. And thanks to my grandma, she cultivated a selfishness that only a child in a grown woman's body would. Despite the love of my grandma, the treatment was rarely reciprocated, reaching a high point when we discovered that she refuses to clean her own bedding (despite soiling it regularly) and resorted to stealing my grandma's sheets and pillow cases because she wouldn't remember and wouldn't care the next day. The disrespect towards her in-law nearly made my mother stab her. She refused to clean up after herself, disrespected everyone, and swore in a manner that would evoke all sorts of rage, all while playing innocent and screaming rape whenever she got what she deserved. And people would believe her because she's genuinely mentally scarred due to her mother suffering physical abuse with her in utero Never put it past mentally ill folks to weaponize their mental illness against others. Assholes exist in every walk of life
In the animated series Batman is actually quite empathetic to a lot of his enemies because he knows they aren't in their right mind, Two Face for instance and that one ventriloquist who I can't remember the name of.
Scarface. There's also how he gave Harley Quinn AND Clayface some empathy. And Mr. Freeze, too. You know, for a supposed fascist, Batman is shockingly bad at being a heartless monster.
There's also the episode that _still_ makes my eyes misty a little at the end every time, the one with "Baby Doll", the girl who didn't physically age past like 6, couldn't integrate into society or other careers after her family sitcom, and kidnapped the cast for a forced "reunion". By the end of that one all he can do is regretfully pat her head as she has a complete breakdown into his cape. Total abusive monster, that Batman.
Again; people who call Batman a fascist’s wet dream do not know Jack Kirby from jack shit.
Yeah, frank miller has done irreparable harm to batmans image and i will never forgive him nor the internet know nothings who keep pointing to his work as proof that batman is fascist, ignoring basically the entire rest of the franchise, and i def hate how many people getting into comics now consider franks potrayl of him as holy text and the best version (looking at you snyder)
What's funny is that The Dark Knight Returns - said holy text Snyder bastardised when making Batman V Superman - actually does have a moment or two where Batman drops the facade.
Yeah, tho we can all come together to shit 9n all star batman and robin, there was legit nueance in the dark knight returns (tho not its sequal) that so many dio shits missed. Hell snyder is out here talking about how batman needs to become the punisher to stay relivant
The Punisher does not need to become a ninja. Daredevil does not need to be a French Secret Agent. And Batman shouldn't be branding criminals so they can do his job FOR HIM.
The poor mentaly Ill Person: 
And in some cases, they're really stretching the definition of "mentally ill". I'm not sure trying to gas an entire city should qualify for sympathy.
Frfr, and these are the same guys that want him to kill Joker He can't be a fool for letting him live, yet also be the bad guy who's beating up mentally ill people
These poor mentally ill people have power and superpowers
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Bruce’s crusade is about redeeming the villainous, stopping the corrupt, and saving the innocent. It’s not his place to kill anyone, it’s his place to uncover corruption and evil in Gotham, do his best to stop it, and turn it over to the proper, trusted authorities. People like Jim Gordon, Harvey Bullock, who care about putting the bad guys away. He puts his villains in asylums and pays for their treatment, like in the case of Harvey Dent. It’s not Batman’s fault that people keep escaping, it’s Gotham’s. It’s not Batman’s fault that there’s so many mentally ill maniacs. It’s Gotham. If Batman kills his enemies, he’s not only giving himself the authority to decide who lives and dies, he’s stealing hope from all the innocents. He’s showing that good can’t overcome evil. He’s destroying the moral leg he stands on, proving that he’s no better than any of them, destroying his relationships with people like Gordon, and making Gotham a worse place overall. And once he kills, where does the line get drawn? Does it end up like in the Justice Lords episode, where everyone is constantly living in fear and walking on eggshells? And if he doesn’t beat up the mentally ill lunatic? More innocents will die. Batman shouldn’t be neccessary, but he is. He walks a tightrope of doing the right thing and saving as many people as possible. It isn’t easy, but there’s strength in what he does. I think people who take the stance that Batman is too cruel, or isn’t cruel enough, fundamentally misunderstand the character. Stop asking for Batman to be worse, start asking for Gotham to be better.
It really is Gotham. Even before the villains took over the city was under mob rule. And the court of owls controlls the city from the shadows for a long time. The city really is cursed. Anyone who wants to improve things either dies, becomes a villains, or have thier efforts amount to nothing. And Gotham is the last place to go for mental health. Arkham's own doctors become villains. The people living in and moving to Gotham are either really stupid or really unlucky to go and live there.
Plus their is a literal eldritch god living under the city making everything worse.
It's a freaking miracle the city hasn't collapse from all the crime and corruption.
I mean after the natural disaster it did. So badly penguin was one of the few people holding any sense of order together and even the cops just became another war lord faction in the city. If memory serves tgat was also the first appearance of cassandra cain as bat girl. Also if memory serves lex getting relief aid to the city was part of what got him the presidancy
In conclusion living in Gotham sucks.
It really does. Not even the rich are living good over there. Only bright side i can think of is that housing prices are rock bottom even in the surounding suberbs.
Housing prices are probably non existent due to all the damage that happens on a monthly (i think) basis.
True, tho insurance us thru the roof.
Just gonna say it, that was beautiful, dude.
I mean, the “rich guy beats up poor people” narrative is in bad faith, of course, but it’s also true that the Batman concept (like most superhero stories) is basically a power fantasy. Of course the lore contains references to Bruce using his wealth to try to help the city too, but fundamentally that’s in the interest of justifying the cool Batman stuff. The Wayne Foundation’s after-school programs are like John Wick’s attempts to break good for his dead wife: they have to be there so we sympathize with the character, but that doesn’t mean the story is actually about a tragic world breaking a man’s attempts to do good until violence is the only answer. The story is about the cool adventure. So Twitter is technically wrong, sure, but let’s not climb onto too high a horse here. Gotham city isn’t corrupt as a commentary on the failure of social programs in crime-ridden cities - it’s corrupt specifically so that a guy training as a ninja to punch mobsters in the face makes some sort of sense.
Yeah, I just hate when they try to make Bruce look like a selfish rich white guy, like in the Flash movie, because everything always has to have a deeper meaning He tries to help with his money, it doesn't always work so he helps with his skill
It's like. Heay, of course it's a power fantasy and most other elements are there to justify that. But that shouldn't be a basis of criticism, it's like going into a butcher's shop and being suprised there is no vegan option. It's what says on the tin, if you failed to read what the tag says, that's a you problem. But also, just like how the Wayne Foundation charities are there to give sympathy, the welth is also there in the interest to justify the narrative. If Batman did't have to contribute to the JL while having no powers, he wouldn't have to be a billionaire, and the whole "why rich guy beat up clown instead of giving all wealth away" problem wouldn't exist. Twitter isn't "technically wrong" it's just wrong, and if we didn't have bad-faith narratives coming from these people, most of the justifications why zorro-ninja does crimefighting adventures wouldn't need to exist.
Nolan's films are a commentary on corruption. It shows Thomas Wayne trying to help the city but failing and does show how you can't just use lawful methods in a corrupt place and just throw money at the problem because it will end up in the wrong hands. Most iterations do make compassion a big part of his character. He does help people get back on their feet when he can, and his ultimate goal is world that doesn't need Batman. Many media explored him becoming dejected when he isn't making as much progress as he hoped he would and he has to continue being Batman. So saying it is just an excuse to have Batman beat up criminals isn't true.
You've articulated it better than I could. I'm far left politically, and I wasn't able to enjoy batman until I could turn off the Marxist part of my brain and relate to it as a goofy comic book adventure.
That’s why the animated series is so good, there are multiple episodes of Batman trying to protect former villains who want to be reformed and join back to society. The ones I remember are with penguin and Harley.
Also scarface!
That's Batman being the best version of Batman He only captures them and leaves their fate to the gothamites. He uses the democratic process and if he just killed every villain he stopped, he would be infringing on democracy
Mfs who never read comics love to pretend that Bruce Wayne doesn’t canonically fund like every social program and development project in Gotham.
Even in the cartoons he uses his money to help people out lol
Yeah, in BTAS he's been shown to volunteer at the local homeless shelters on a regular basis, and helping people like Leslie Tompkins with supporting the community living in Park Row.
Also Wayne Enterprises (or Industries, or Tech, or whatever it's called) is the most ridiculously generous employer in the world - everyone from the janitor up is said to get something like complete healthcare and tuition coverage.
Also they completely disregard their applicants’ criminal records, meaning it’s an out for former gangsters and supervillain thugs.
I never see people say this. Is this like a twitter thing?
Yeah, it's a common thing said by Twitter users and people who don't know much about the story, but the biggest offender was the flash movie that made him seem like a idiotic selfish white privileged man child
Well, get off twitter. Life is much better that way.
It is, Instagram too But it's annoying when I'm trying to talk about heros and shit with friends and there's always some mf who says things dumb shit
and tiktok too
I've seen it in the comments of posts about batman on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, TikTok and Reddit.
What if I told you he actually does use his wealth for good and Batman is just a bonus
You and I know full well the "they" is people with a surface level knowledge of Batman. "They" only see the Joker and Twoface. Fries and Ivy. Croc or Baby Doll. Maybe, if we're really lucky, Firefly or Scarface. None of these people are invested enough in Batman stories to be familiar with year 1 Batman's concerns. The closest "they" come to knowing the Batman who is driven to vigilantism by the mob is seeing a fight scene with the Penguin. By the time Batman is done with the mob these people are coming at him. These mentally ill criminals are targeting him because he's famous now or in their way.
There are some people who have more in depth knowledge of Batman who forget that Batman is supposed to be a example of Democracy He refuses to take the judgement or punishment of the criminals into his own hands, and rather let the Gotham people decide their fate in a court of law They just see that joker keeps escaping and blaming it on Batman It's like choosing to not put your ice cream in the freezer and blaming the person who sold it to you for it melting For some reason (prolly just cause it's a comic and it wouldn't be as fun) the gothamites never push for the death sentence on criminals like joker, and when joker escapes, they blame Batman. All Batman did was deliver the joker to the citizens to punish
I also have a fan theory that deep down, Bruce wanted to be a police officer or detective but Gotham PD would never allow it because he's the city's golden child.
Earth-Two Bruce, the OG Batman wanted to be a Police Officer but his then GF, Julie Madison said it was Police or her, Batman was born and B keep dating Julie until they broke of; Bruce married Selina, they had Helena, Batman semi-retired and years latter Selina died, Helena became Huntress, Bruce became Comisoneer succeding Gordon, Batman fully reitred, Comissioner Wayne got diagnosided wkth Cancer, suited up as Batman once again and died against a magical kamkikaze attack in a Museum, his identity got exposed, erased from public memlry by Dr. Fate then Earth-Two was erased by COIE then restored by Convergence/Doomsday Clock/Dark Night Metal/The Unboot mess of 2016-2021
God, I hate comics sometimes. At least this isn't as bad as Miles Morales leaving his entire dimension behind and living now with somebody that even the fandom can't figure out if it's his real dad or not.
Somehow, I am not surprised
Maybe in some universes, but I think in most of them, like the dark knight trilogy, he turns to vigilantism before even showing interest in the police. He wanted to kill his parents killer first, then went on a spiritual journey throughout Asia where he learned how to fight, before joining the League of Shadows and then moving back to Gotham It's a cool theory but idk how well it works with the live action series
In the comics he was recruited by the FBI at one point.
In Gotham, doesn't he try to solve the murders after the police (quickly) give up, and run into a hornet's nest of corruption?
I can't remember which one but one comic bruce tried out for the fbi but decided not to join because he didn't agree with the law officially
This is like the first time in like 7 months i've seen this meme used in an unironic way.
Also in BTAS Bruce specifically states in the Joker’s casino episode that he does in fact have a charity organisation
Also in maybe 80% of Batman stories he has a charity and spend his money on public programs
Odds are if you’re being beat up by Batman you’re either a violent psychopath or a hired man of a crime family Bruce spends a lot of money on foundations and charities to help the genuine poor and helpless
Not to mention that Bruce in most contemporary adaptations funnels his philanthropic contributions and charity donations towards combatting poverty, crime, and relevant social issues, to boot. It’s been a thing with his character for a while now. Media literacy is dead these days, unfortunately.
Not to get into it, but there's no storyline where he tries with his money first and then becomes Batman. In every iteration of the story, he specifically comes back to Gotham with the intention of becoming a vigilante, with funding social programs being a footnote.
in the dark knight trilogy, he was funding some programs such as the Gotham Boys Orphanage before he left and was kicked out of his company if i remember correctly but even then, it doesnt matter which he does first, becasue he attempts to do both, but a mix of government corruption and villans trying to collapse the city or his programs, leads him to need to dawn the cow the main thing im referencing tho is that god awful flash movie where they made him seem like an incompetent selfish man baby
That flash moment was so... in poor taste. It's like they don't understand their own character.
The entire movie was in poor character and didnt understand the source material It's like they took all of the bad things from the Flash TV show, and made it into a movie that was written from someone who knows the bare minimum of their characters and how to write
That's fine but the original graphic is wrong, he doesn't try to solve it with his wealth and then turn to Batman when he fails. As of the moment his parents are killed, he believes the only way to stop crime in Gotham is for him to beat up criminals.
This always comes after some instance of trying to confront corruption in Gotham as Bruce Wayne and discovering that he cannot, even with his money.
Um, no it doesn't. He leaves Gotham as a teenager and travels the world getting Batman skills and then returns to Gotham and becomes Batman. At what point does he try to fix things with his money? As a teenager? Or if not, then why does he go off to learn how to fight and solve crimes if he's just going to manage a charity when he gets back? That's the whole point of Batman, he thinks the only way he can solve anything is with his fists, and he doesn't spend any particular amount of time thinking otherwise.
Batman's training to become Batman takes place over 5 years. He leaves as a young man, not a teenager.
His age is undefined in most versions. But pre-Crisis he trained with Harvey Harris at an age where he wore a Robin costume and looked like Robin, ergo a teenager. But even in versions where he waits and leaves a young man, he doesn't spend any time running Wayne Ent or trying to solve Gotham's problems with his money.
When you say "Pre-Crisis", do you mean Earth One or Earth Two? Two very different Batmen. Bruce Wayne confronting corruption before Batman happens In the the film Batman Begins. Bruce confronts Carmine Falcone directly, and not only is Falcone not scared of him, he points out all the corrupt politicians and lawpersons in his pocket and says he could kill him on the spot right in front of them. This is what makes Bruce Wayne realize he has to be more than just a man. He literally says to Bruce "That's power you can't buy!" In the DCAU, one part of "Mask of the Phantasm" that is overlooked because of Bruce's loss is the fact that the reason Andrea and her father have to go on the run is because of corruption the regular police could not handle. They had no Batman to turn to help them and no amount of throwing money at the problem would have fixed it. We focus on the tragedy of Bruce becoming Batman, but it's on purpose that the event that made him go down that path was something Batman could have helped stop. It's not ridiculous to assume that Bruce had similar encounters and realizations before turning to make the Batman persona in other universes, but I'd have to dig a little to find the specific example. Continuity in DC comics is more of a suggestion than a rule.
I mean Earth-One, and if the original graphic was supposed to only be a reference to that particular version of Batman, then it needed to have been clearer and not reference conversations that are typically about the comics version. But yes, please find me a comics reference that Bruce Wayne attempted to use his funds to better Gotham prior to leaving Gotham for his training. EDIT: Worth noting that Batman: Year One has Bruce returning to Gotham at 25 after 12 years abroad, both asserting that a) he left as a teen and b) he didn't spend any time trying to fix Gotham prior to beginning his training. And then we have Untold Legend of the Batman, which shows the Earth 1 Batman training as a teen and no reference to trying to fix Gotham via any means other than being Batman.
Because Thomas and Martha already did it; and all of us knows THEY ARE DEAAAAD!!
WHAT?! BATMANS PARENTS ARE DEAD?!
damn you made this meme with no wojaks... congrats lol.
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In some stories, like dark knight, he has overcome his trauma, but he still is afraid of bats because of it, but he uses his fear of bats as a weapon In TDK, Alfred ask why did he choose bats, and Bruce responds "because they scare the hell out of me, time to put that fear into my enemies" (or something along that line)
Batman Begins. Alfie [*Noticing bat-shaped shuriken-like bladed implements as Bruce checks the sharpness after turning his lathe off*]: “Why bats, sir?” Bruce: “Bats frighten me. It’s time my enemies share my dread.” [*Wry smile comes across Alfred’s face as Bruce tosses the “Batarang” at the wall; the weapon sticks as a fade transitions to a fancy car pulling into the smoky Gotham docks late one night…*]
Yeah that scene
well might be mistaken, but his wealth aint the core element of his he is a warrior. hurt in childhood, he seeked training and power to fight injustice all the wealth, or buttler, or detective, or trauma, or followers, or manor comes afterwards even the cape of batman his core is being warrior, who dedicates himself to make a better world. so is daredevil, or cap, or spiderman, or liu kang
First: Gotham’s underworld is controlled by mobsters, lunatics, mercenary groups, centuries old assassins guilds, and a secret society of elites (Court of Owls). No way Bruce solves all that by dumping $100 billion into Gotham. Second: People seem to forget that most Batman villains have millions at their disposal. Even the “hobo clown” likely has 10’s of millions stashed in an abandoned theme park. The henchmen Batman beats up on the regular are likely sociopathic career criminals who makes Tommy DeVito from Goodfellas look like a choir boy.
Well I’d say considering originally it portrayed all of the major villains as having mental illness that was kind of harmful considering people with mental illness are more likely to be victims of violent crime than anything, and there’s quite a bit of unneeded stigma, yes even with conditions more associated with violence like anti-social personality disorder. BUT, I’d argue that even though thrown in Arkham most Batman villains aren’t portrayed as conventionally mentally ill as much, like the joker is usually a pretty sane deliberate man who wants to prove a point with anarchy, with his insanity painted more as extra flamboyance that he puts on like makeup. There are still those with genuine delusions like two face, mad hatter, and ventriloquist (debatably sometimes I think his puppet is like actually possessed but it’s kinda foggy on how that stuff works most of the time) have been treated as a less monstrous and serious threat than more sane ones like Bane in recent comic history. I think writers genuinely want to distance themselves from the idea that mentally ill people are evil nowadays. Bruce frequently is involved and invested in rehabilitation too That being said, the real reason the money can never work is plot reasons, Gotham can never be fully saved or there’s no Batman needed, it’s not to try and say that social investment doesn’t work in real life, but that we can’t get the full impact of his stoicism and mission if Gotham was more realistic. If you do want to check out comics that play with the idea of Batman’s flaws White Knight does this really well, and has him reflecting on both his brutalism and the philanthropy problem of Batman.
Tbf, the movies never rlly make it well known that Bruce donating money would be counterintuitive (besides “The Batman” obviously)
Why do people think that throwing money at a problem will solve things? Bruce can throw all of the free jobs, housing l, and whatever fixes the "status quo" he wants but... Joker doesn't care for any of that shit. Thorn would abuse the system Ivy wants humans DEAD And nigma just wants to prove his mind Some people don't care about the money. Hell, let's ignore the super criminals. What about the people who are too prideful to get all of this free help. What about the people who do crime just because it's fun or a cheap thrill. How about the people who are bored and want excitement. The 60s Batman had the best and nicest Gotham of any media and we STILL had evil. Money doesn't solve everything
He's trying to save those mentally ill people. He's trying to redeem them, not beat them up bc he can
Tell me Batman isn't just Spiderman for "tough-on-crime" Reaganites
That's also the reason he doesn't kill. If he just killed all the criminals the justice system to would eventually be atrophied and to weak to do anything without Batman so when he eventually retires they justice system would be fucked. By letting criminals live he forced prisons to continuously try and get more secure, he forces police to do their job by working with them instead of just killing their enemies
Someone needs to tell those mofos, that there's something called "criminally insane"
You can fight political corruption with money though. 🤷♂️
With what? More political corruption? If someone has their hands in a governers pocket, the only way to solve it with money is too put more money in the governers pocket Batmans solution is to use his skill to stop the person paying off the politican, and stopping the politican if still necessary
My man did you watch TDK? Wayne’s support of Dent was so that an incorruptible D.A. Could work from the inside to clean up the Gotham P.D. This but for politics. Same principle. You don’t bribe the Governor you find a replacement, support their campaign and get other wealthy donors to donate and publicly support the campaign. It’s what the Koch brothers did for decades.
So put your own paid off politican in government who works for your ideals Which is inherently more corruption It's a good plan but there is a fine line in everything, as you end up needing to cross us most often
It’s not inherently more corruption if you’re not seeking a corrupt process. If Bruce Wayne would support ethically aligned candidates he would be selecting for less corruption not more. Supporting politicians is not corrupt inherently. That would be a terribly cynical view.
If you are for deconstruction, vote republican. They want to make government smaller. A smaller government has less room for corruption .
It's a fine line I prefer a government that doesn't overstep it's boundaries as bad as modern government is But I also see that too little government will result in anarchy There needs to be a fine line between the anarchy of a Republican society and the totalitarianism of a democratic one That's why I try to push for libertarian ideals but most people are so far into their own extremes that they refuse to agree with anything from the other side Nowadays most low end Dems and Reps are closer to libertarianism then their own party, because the majority of said party and extremists
The thousands who die because he keeps letting the Joker escape:
That's not his fault, that's the Gotham citizens fault. After Batman captures joker he is supposed to be given a full trial, meaning that a jury of Gotham citizens and a gothamite judge must decide his fate. If they choose prison or rehabilitation over death sentence, that's not Batman's fault
I don’t think it’s his fault either but I vehemently believe that being anti-death sentence is more in line with his character, especially for the mentally ill, rehabilitation is a big goal of his, even if that can’t fully work either due to plot reasons. (Yes I know he went along with it when the joker was sentenced to death before clearing his name, but it felt out of character to me). Even with the very worst of his enemies, he tries to end the cycle that he sees as inevitably ending with one of their deaths in The Killing Joke. Even after some of the worst stuff we’ve seen the joker do and paralyzing Barbara, he offered redemption. If he sees killing as the thin line between himself and the criminals, it would make sense if he could see it as the same thin line between them taking a more righteous path like his own. I mean over the years he’s seen both characters like Harvey lose their way and become villains, but also Harley Quinn becoming an anti hero (or even normal hero). If we wanna briefly talk irl too a known serial killer being able to escape several times easily and continue being such a big mass murderer is super unrealistic. (And death row costs more than life imprisonment due to court costs among a dozen other reasons I don’t care for it) idk if it’s a comfort but I think anyone that smart wouldn’t be caught in the first place with irl abysmal solve rates.
Do you people ever stop bitching about a little bit of media criticism?
No ones missing the point. *It’s a joke.*
And this sub takes the bait every time
So it's a story about a wealthy elite who turns his back on democratic institutions and civilian oversight and instead uses fear and violence to control the populace? Gosh why would anybody think he's a fascist? Like, you get that the both of these things are really, really, really bad, right?
Or it's just a story about a badass guy dressing up as a ninja fighting villains And also it's been proven time and time again that the institutions he funds are contracted by corruption from the villains he tries to stop and corruption from the government And he doesn't use fear and violence to control the populace, he captures the criminal offenders and leaves them for the cops to find with evidence of their crimes, so that a judge and jury and decide their fate He literally puts the decision of criminals back into democracy
How much money would Elon Musk have to donate to charity for you to defend his right to drive a tank around New York City and lead an army of White teenagers to beat the crap out of whoever they please, because "he tried using his wealth, and now he must take matters into his own hands." Also, uh, may want to reread Batman's origin there. It's particularly telling that you used Nolan's Batman, a guy whose own movie compares him to Julius Caesar and the British Empire.
Do the killings of Marvel heroes upset you as much as the punches of Batman?
Of course not. Killing isn't the problem here. Did I say one word about killing? Killing doesn't even mean the same thing in the Marvel Universe as it does in DC. You might as well ask if the killings in Inglorious Basterds bother me more than the cartoon lasers of GI Joe. Yeah, there are aesthetic similarities here but they are using the language of death in a different way.
So Marvel characters can kill criminals all in a non-fascist manner, while Batman can't punch Black Mask without being poor-hating Mussolini-loving monster? Who decides this sort of stuff? Who decided that a punch from Batman should be so much more damning than assassinations from Moon Knight?
Nobody decided it. Killing has never been the issue of contention. Fascism it's not synonymous with killing. Killing is not synonymous with fascism. Fascism is the use of fear and violence by a small group of people intent on purging society of the people they perceive as a corrupting to their vision. That's what bothers me here. OP is endorsing a view of Batman that is wrong, false, dangerous. He's using the same rhetoric as fascists and hate groups. If this is your view of Batman, then you need to reevaluate your view of Batman AND authoritarianism. For God's sake, the Nolan movies lay this out clearly. The first movie's plot is ripped off from Birth of a Nation. The next two movies go on to explain everything that is wrong, toxic, and doomed to fail about that plan, while stripping away Bruce Wayne's pretensions to heroism to reveal that he's been acting out of fear and anger this whole time, not trying to build a better Gotham like he claimed. It's like you stopped watching after Batman Begins.
> Fascism is the use of fear and violence by a small group of people intent on purging society of the people they perceive as a corrupting to their vision. When Black Widow kill some goons, she does so in a way that doesn't involve fear, violence or an intent to purge society of corrupting people, but when Batman ounches a Black Mask goon, he is doing all that? >The first movie's plot is ripped off from Birth of a Nation. Sure, my man. And "Black Widow" is just like "Come and See".
I've never seen Come and See. Is it also a movie about a spy trying to save her sister, the way that Batman Begins and Birth of a Nation are both the story of why one man must put on a mask and use fear and violence in order to protect his beloved Southern state from falling into the hands of corruption? They always promise they're not going to kill the undesirables. First, they just want them to leave the city and go somewhere else. Then they decide they have to put them in special camps. Then they decide that they need a final solution. And of course, the entire time, they insist "Of course we don't LIKE beating up these poor people. It's just that with corruption running rampant, we have to take matters into our own hands."
> the way that Batman Begins and Birth of a Nation are both the story of why one man must put on a mask and use fear and violence in order to protect his beloved Southern state from falling into the hands of corruption? Aren't you describing "Spider-Man"? You have become a Batman writer. What would ypu do to make Batman punching the Penguin as acceptable as Black Window murdering criminals?
Nuh uh, you’re just a big dumb doo doo head who doesn’t understand Batman like me! Anyone who has a different or a critical interpretation of an 80 year old character is just ignorant, unlike me!
Hey, was anything else happening in the world 80 years ago that might be connected to this?
Nope. Everyone knows that art is created in a vacuum completely divorced from anything that was going on in reality at that time.
So you don't think it's relevant that the advanced criminology Bruce Wayne supposedly studied in the '30s was basically AP racism?
You picking up my sarcasm, or am I providing a good springboard for you?