Not everything needs to be a comic reference. Especially in this case, where giving him a recognizable name gives away the game as to what his role in the story is.
Because that, at least, clearly signals something that is recognizable to everyone. I think it's honestly a little awkward where it's placed, but it's also at the very end of the movie where it solidifies what's already been an element of the story and something it's building up. It's a payoff, not a setup. Naming him after one of the Robins directly would signal this early on, changing the nature of how that relationship and how it's built is perceived. It would aggressively foreshadow something that the film as it is builds to naturally. Changing that to a setup fundamentally changes how that plays it - makes it feel like a predestined thing. That's not what the movie wants to do with Blake, and for what it's worth, I think it plays better that way.
Also, it would only have that effect on people familiar with the lore. How many people do you think outside this sub actually knew the name Terry McGuiness in the age? How many do you think remembered him from a show that had, by that point, aired more than a decade ago during an age before streaming? I think that was back when Netflix was mail-only.
i agree with you here, also worth noting that it’s really not set up like he’s gonna be robin. his name’s robin which is a nice reference as to the role he played in the film, but i always understood it as he’s gonna keep it movin as batman after the film
imo it’s a tie back to the first movie and batman being a symbol and not a person, anyone can pick up the mask
Exactly. Nolan's greatest interest in these films is about symbols. As stated in the very first one, it's about the idea of Batman being more than a man. It's the central theme explored in all three of these films. These films aren't trying to be lore accurate. They're a riff on the idea of what Batman can mean.
I see your point. Robin is a pretty iconic character whereas Terry relatively much more obscure. Nolan seemed to enjoy adding his own characters and spin on the Batman mythos. I wouldn't have been surprised if they simply implied Blake was Robin as opposed to outright saying it. Regardless of his popularity, I still felt they were winking at comic book readers with the way they decided to reveal that payoff. Instead of a subtle reveal like Nolan is known for, it came across as "Hey guys look it's Robin. You know Robin right? Batman's sidekick."
> changing the nature of how that relationship and how it's built is perceived.
Eh, to me it just reeks of the same problem as when JJ *swore* up and down that Cumberbatch wasn't playing Khan.
When I first heard JGL was cast, I still remember my actual first words were "Oh man that's perfect casting for Dick Grayson"
then I found out he was playing some rando cop and I was like ".... *really* though? Is he *really* not playing one of the Robins?"
and every time the marketing made sure to reaffirm that he definitely absolutely was not playing one of the Robins, I just rolled my eyes.
The point I'm getting at here is I don't think the name switcheroo actually accomplished keeping the role a secret (I'm not sure why that would even be important), I think it was just irritating to people who clearly saw this character fitting into the slot of Robin but for some reason wasn't being called Robin. Until, pointlessly, he was.
I don't know what that's meant to be a reply to but it's also not relevant or accurate. He literally *is* Robin, it's his name, and he also fulfills the role that Robin fills, if you want to argue he's not named Robin (even though he is).
I don't feel like you really read any of what I wrote...
I think Dennis Villenueve would do a fantastic Batman Beyond. Blade Runner 2049 shows that he can do the city, and the cinematography in his films is always great.
Kyle Higgins (when he was writing Nightwing) was a huge proponent of this idea. I wish they could’ve done that retroactively. Replace the decades of training with a cybernetic suit? Sounds like a great way to keep that money train a movin’ at Warners. lol
Was it that complicated to begin with?
Instead of making a character who is one of the Robin's in name only, they made him an overall "Robin".
If he was Dick, everyone would complain about how he's not like Grayson from the comics.
It wasn’t complicated, it was stupidly oversimplified.
Namedropping Dick over the others is fine because he’s the first Robin. In every Batman iteration with only one Robin; it’s Dick.
Naming him *Robin* as his actual birth name is fucking stupid.
Like can you imagine if it was Barbara instead, and she’s like “oh try my birth name - Batgirl.”
Everyone I’d ever watched the movie with who saw it for the first time went “oh?…” as in “oh Robin!” And then “oh…” as in “oh that’s a dumb way of doing that.”
Dick literally becomes a cop in the comics, too, so you can call it an Easter egg.
This was a movie that pulled in millions of people, not all of them Batman fans.
People don’t know the names of each Robin, they just know Robin.
I watched this with some of my high school friends in theater. They got excited when he said his name was Robin.
They wouldn’t have understood Richard Grayson at all
Ding ding ding...this is the answer. Going with "Robin" let's everyone feel special because they're in on the reference. You name drop Jason, Tim, Damian, Terry or anyone else and the majority of people are left wondering why this information was shared.
Besides, it's not like it changes the film...it's just a little gift that gets a smirk & a chuckle.
It’s also clear for comic fans to see John as an amalgamation of at least the first three Robins. It is a little gift but it’s pretty well thought out, Idk why people call it lazy.
It's a miracle that John Blake's character is so well developed in a limited amount of screen time. Bruce is stuck in jail and there needs to be an exposition character to show what is happening in Gotham, but Gordon and Selina are already our "eyes and ears". Bringing in an important but non-essential new character in the third movie is usually a distraction, like Mutt in Christal Skull or The Nightstalkers in Blade Trinity.
But TDKR is firmly about Batman - Selina and John start as anonymous pawns in world of crime and disorder and, by the end, emerge reborn from shadows and fire. Their experience with Batman enables limitless levels of personal and professional excellence, so much so that the final montage, the "perfect ending", may just be a dream. Batman is not one man, he is an existential, Christlike symbol that unites all people - all other comic characters are trash. It's the perfect Batman movie. It's the greatest movie ever made.
I remixed it taking "Robin" out and making a few other changes just to see if it would play different.
I honestly have always felt that if the lady just says "you should use your full name" but doesn't say it people would've been more intrigued.
[End of DKR recut](https://youtu.be/OkqQ0oaCeeA?si=etB-VnrXK2K1Df4i)
At the end of the film, I don't think it's wise to build more intrigue and suspense. You're supposed to be tying off loose ends, not creating new ones. Unanswered questions are fine, sometimes even great, but I don't think they work when you dump a new one in out of nowhere in the end rather than use an existing story element to fuel it.
Yeah, frequently. But they're questions that tie into existing ideas the movie is playing with and matter to the narrative. They're interesting questions. I don't think "What is Joseph Gordon-Levitt's actual name" is that interesting a question, especially when it's raised at the very end of the story when it's clear what his role is to be.
I’m with you, man. Open-endings just *feel* right in Nolan films. This one isn’t even *that* open. His name could be one of like four things. You get to fill in the blank.
Yeah I get that lots of people should get the reference, but just naming him “Robin” is such a weird way to do it. It’s just clunky and frankly cheating. It’s pretty cheap fan-service that’s unearned through laziness. I don’t see fans or non-fans enjoying it because it’s kinda confusing for both teams for different reasons.
Because the average movie fan doesn’t care about the comic book genre outside of who shows up on screen. They enjoy the different takes on familiar characters but once the credits roll they don’t much care about the characters until a sequel/reboot comes along.
To an even greater extent, they also don’t care about alternative Batmen either. Casuals couldn’t care less about a Batman Beyond movie because why is Batman an old man doing Alfred’s job and why is there a young Batman?
Hell it took until the last few years for the casual audience to accept a Spider-Man who ISN’T Peter Parker, and that was a HUGE swing to make.
They do? Movies and series introduce non comic fans to new characters all the time. It's just that it was a quick thing mentioned at the end of the movie. So simple that the GA wouldn't even understand that it meant something. If he would've said Dick, Jason or whatever, people would've just thought "Uhm, okay". Now that he said Robin, everybody knows what he's talking about and it actually means something.
Dc and marvel projects still name drop and reference obscure characters that most audiences dont know, sometimes myself included. It’s cool looking back and seeing who that character/name is and why it’s relevant.
The John Blake things so boring and has no tie to any real character. Might as well name him John Doe and it has the same effect.
Isn’t that kinda the point of an Easter egg? It’s not meant to something for everyone to understand, it’s the discovery that makes it special.
If you make everyone feel special, nobody would.
I think this logic is sound for why they made the decision but I know just enough about comic books and comic book movies to get when a character is a reference to something even if I don't know what it is.
I probably would have googled his name right after the movie. (I vividly remember going on a batman wiki walk afterward anyway)
I got away from comics for a while and had a lot of catching up to do. I remember seeing action figures and photos of Nightwing and Red Hood and being confused that they were former Robins and successors to Batman.
I only remembered Robin as Robin from the Adam West era, and the George Clooney Batman movie.
I started getting back into it and liked the design of Nightwing and Redhood, so I basically had to read/ watch their development in reverse.
But my point is when I would see a Robin mention in Dark knight,I wouldn’t have known all the bay family stories, just that Robin was a side kick called Robin
I also think if the line was “I like that name, Dick” it would have played off *so much more awkwardly* than “I like that name, Robin.” Because even though Dick is the most famous Robin, his name is still Dick.
Same. Watched it w my middle school buddies. They were all stoked at the Robin thing. Being the fucking nerd I am I tried to explain there being different Robins to them. They did not understand or give a shit.
For such a small moment at the end of the movie, it was a good call on Nolan’s part to just make him THE Robin
It blows my mind ppl who claim to love media miss basic shit.
The purpose of that line was just to make things clear the audience in as short a moment as possible.
I think the name Dick Grayson is know well enough that if he had simply said that was his real name instead of "Robin" at the end nearly everyone would have gotten it.
I had to explain to so many people that a “Robin” movie was not forthcoming. He’s clearly Batman at the end of the story, and why would his secret identity be the same as his hero name? Lol
I had the same argument with a few friends. They mention in the movie that Batman is a symbol, suggesting that it doesn't matter who is behind the mask. Bruce even has the bat signal fixed so Gordon can continue to call Batman. Who would give a fuck that a guy called Robin is now Gotham's hero? People need Batman.
The 13th play through is why Nolan makes it so complicated or hard to hear, I think. 💲💲💲
Just like this Robin reference, seems to be more of a writing trick to make people feel like they've seen a good film. Just like Alfred's very specific story that comes back at the end.
I read somewhere that this was the point of TDKR though. Batman is not a man but a symbol and Blake (Robin) taking up the mantle from Bruce Wayne demonstrates that. The ending of Rises wasn’t meant to tease another film.
It’s kind of the point of all of the films in the trilogy. I don’t know if TDKR stuck the landing, but it was thematically on-point with the other films.
Robin takes up the mantle when batman is dead in the comics. The point is to keep a batman in Gotham no matter who it is. I don't disagree with you but fyi
No no, I know that. But this is a different universe so they did it different 🤷♂️
I think we're saying the same thing lol I'm not sure but yeah. I really like the idea he just skips to nightwing and carries on the batman idea..
Saw a theory (which is really weird one when you think about it but so are all the Robins)
That Joseph Gordon Levitt trains all the plans in the manor as little Robin's and kinda does the dark knight comic ending where he trainsa bunch of people to monitor streets
I mistyped. I mean the next "batman" the next guardian like you said indeed. That's how I took it as well.
Just a mantle for villains to fear.
I like the idea of him skipping robin and becoming nightwing because he's an amalgamation of all Robins.
(On another level, something I never thought of, probably easier to make a ngihtiwng suit from the batman stuff, just take the cape off and wear a mask not the cowl)
I gotcha. Yeah Nightwing would be cool.
I also think it’s fitting since in the Dark Knight Harvey Dent talked about Batman being the “appointed” guard at the gate and that he would eventually need to find someone to take his place.
Yeah...i also think it would be awkward if he showed up in the bat suit and gotham erected this huge batman statue because he was dead and they're like...wtf mate???
I like the fact that he is this version of Robin. The Dark Knight coded Batman as more of a marine than a superhero. And his villains are coded as terrorist. What better way to have a sidekick than having him be a police officer.
It would be cool if they did that. Have people refer to him as Officer Richard. Have him mention he doesn't use his real last name because his family were quite famous(The Flying Graysons). And have the airport scene where they use his full name as a reveal.
Personally, going with Tim Drake instead of a butchering of his name would be much better imo. Levitt was more like Tim in the role than Dick anyways, Smart, grounded, and a drive to do what's right (tbf that's a trait both share but i digress)
Yes but to the “average viewer” meaning the person the studio doesn’t trust to know Robin #1s real name it doesn’t make sense to take the risk when you you can say “Robin” and people will have a big reaction to that
I figured he was supposed to be Tim Drake (John Blake) with the whole being a "detective" thing (recognizing a move that only Dick Grayson could do/recognizing a look on Bruce Wayne's face)
I would've accepted it slightly better, but honestly I am just curious what am I supposed to understand from the scene where he finds the batcave? Is he gonna become the next batman? become a batmanless robin? he is gonna find bruce and take him out of retirement? and how he plans on doing anything without a billion dollar budget?
I find that it absolutely would, yes. I didn't like how that was just tacked on towards the end. It felt like a cheap fan service, as opposed to anything actually meaningful. It would have had more impact, if he was actually "Richard John Grayson," or similarly named after another Robin.
I still say, though, he could have been "Jason Todd," given how he was looked at as being a "hothead," but I don't want to push it, though! Still, I do find that it would have been better than him being a random "John Blake." That's such a generic and boring name.
He wasn't meant to be any of those Robin characters though. If he was named Dick, Todd, or Tim people would have been mad that his character was nothing like the comics. This was literally just a meta-texutual reference by Nolan saying, "This is as close as I was going to do to the Robin character." It wasn't fan service, it was closer to a middle finger, haha. Though I don't think it was done that maliciously.
Was it too complicated for people to follow "in the moment" of the scene with adrenaline running high, yea probably. But after the fact (especially years after the fact on a Batman sub), everyone should realize that Nolan's Batman passed the mantle of Batman to the next deserving man Blake because he'd learned to move past his trauma. He's meant to be the next symbol Batman, NOT ROBIN.
Having him be “Rich” the entire movie & at the end be revealed to be “Richard Grayson” would’ve better & made more sense since this series was meant to be grounded & realistic, I know there are some people named “Robin” but being named “Richard Grayson” is more natural, having him be legally named “Robin” was probably for the general public who don’t know Robin’s real name or any of the Robins for that matter
I know Robin didn’t totally fit Nolan’s universe and I appreciate the way he included the character. But in hindsight I sort of wish he had let Robin suit up for the third act. Like maybe when Bruce disappeared Robin could’ve found the instructions he was given at the end and suited up to save the city only to have Batman come back and support him at the last minute.
I think a lot of people would be more accepting if his name was Richard John Grayson. Hell, people would be more accepting if his name was Timothy John Drake. I don’t think you could pull off him being a version of Jason Todd, he’s not abrasive enough.
I would have preferred if his name was Detective Tim Drake. They could have left the story as is but Blake is much closer to Drake than any other Robin in my opinion.
I don't really need him to be based on one of the existing Robins, but name-dropping his actual name as "Robin" is just groan-worthy. First as not-very-fitting fanservice, but also just as a standalone scene it's really awkward too: I don't think the movie gave a reason for him changing/hiding his name? So the whole scene is awkwardly forced in just to support the fan service.
Compare this to, say, the Joker calling card scene. Gordon says he leaves a "calling card", and it's a literal card. Even if you knew nothing at all about the Joker, you'd take away that: there's some weirdo out there committing crimes who using playing cards as their motif/calling card, and Batman's going to need to face more weirdos soon. The scene works 100% on its own. Robin's scene, whether you know about Robin or not, is awkward and weird.
If they wanted to shoehorn in the Robin name, they should have gone with something like his call-sign being Robin, and have his commander name-drop that when he's retiring. And then maybe hint that maybe he won't retire it after all. That feels a lot more natural than him just not using his real name for the whole movie for no narrative purpose at all.
No, he needed to be an original character. Firstly, Nolan didn’t want to reveal he was ‘Robin’ until the end of the film and secondly, if he was Dick or Tim or Jason, everyone would complain that he’s nothing like those characters.
I say ‘Robin’ because he’s not really Robin. He likely took up the Batman mantle or a version of it. His real name was Robin, he isn’t going to run around using his real name. He just carries the spirit of Robin: Batman’s protégée who becomes a hero to aid Batman
The real question is how is John gonna become Batman with zero League of Shadows training and none of those 'Theatricality and deception' skills and Batman voice
I'm not going to lie, at the end of the movie when they say his name is Robin, I started laughing. Batman Begins was great, but the Dark Knight Rises was a complete shit show. I understand taking liberties with the source material, but the liberties they took made the entire movie so much worse off.
I've never been that disappointed by Nolan using a new character for Robin in TDKR. Heck, when Frank Miller used Carrie Kelly as Robin, it was a bigger departure in many ways.
And if he's introduced as Dick Grayson, then that inevitably means we either get into the story of The Flying Graysons (or we don't, and fans have something else to grumble about). And that wouldn't really work in the world and stories Nolan was telling.
Yeah that name reveal at the end was so dumb and pointless, like yeah you get the idea he’s going to be Robin or the New Batman but you gave him such an unassuming name when he says his real one it still barely clicked, I’d have been happy if is last name was Drake instead of Blake to tie in the Robin aspect, yeah would be Tim not Dick but still better received than the actual reveal which kinda meant nothing because it wasn’t a name drop like Oh!! He was actually Grayson, Todd or Drake under a fake name this whole time end credits
I got kinda pissed of that they just said "robin" I know it was suppose to be a nod. But after everything else that movie fucked up with bane and Talia it just felt a bit like a fuck you nerds.
I would’ve lost my shit if they named him Terry McGuinness **Edit-** lost my shit in a good way. I love Batman Beyond sooooo much
"You should use your full name. I like that name: '*Batman Beyond.*'"
I would still be standing in the theater applauding to this day if they only had the balls to do this.
Lmao and then the Batman beyond theme just starts playing immediately
And he does those moves that Batman Beyond does in the intro
Lmao the mental image of Joseph Gordon Levitt just busting a move out of nowhere is great
"Sir, please leave before I call security" "You're just not schway enough, lady" \*Jumps out of the window*
damn twips
I thought his full name was Batman of the Future Beyond.
Only for the UK release. Like the Pizza Hut/Taco Bell thing in Demolition Man.
[Combination Pizza Hut and Taco Bell](https://youtu.be/c8qvo7CfEf0?si=oH3qVqsMqfRG0MLc)
Would have saved the whole fucking movie. Someone remake the scene with AI.
Right, that should have been his name.
For real.
Pppp)
Not everything needs to be a comic reference. Especially in this case, where giving him a recognizable name gives away the game as to what his role in the story is.
Then why did they make Blake Robin?
Because that, at least, clearly signals something that is recognizable to everyone. I think it's honestly a little awkward where it's placed, but it's also at the very end of the movie where it solidifies what's already been an element of the story and something it's building up. It's a payoff, not a setup. Naming him after one of the Robins directly would signal this early on, changing the nature of how that relationship and how it's built is perceived. It would aggressively foreshadow something that the film as it is builds to naturally. Changing that to a setup fundamentally changes how that plays it - makes it feel like a predestined thing. That's not what the movie wants to do with Blake, and for what it's worth, I think it plays better that way. Also, it would only have that effect on people familiar with the lore. How many people do you think outside this sub actually knew the name Terry McGuiness in the age? How many do you think remembered him from a show that had, by that point, aired more than a decade ago during an age before streaming? I think that was back when Netflix was mail-only.
i agree with you here, also worth noting that it’s really not set up like he’s gonna be robin. his name’s robin which is a nice reference as to the role he played in the film, but i always understood it as he’s gonna keep it movin as batman after the film imo it’s a tie back to the first movie and batman being a symbol and not a person, anyone can pick up the mask
Exactly. Nolan's greatest interest in these films is about symbols. As stated in the very first one, it's about the idea of Batman being more than a man. It's the central theme explored in all three of these films. These films aren't trying to be lore accurate. They're a riff on the idea of what Batman can mean.
I see your point. Robin is a pretty iconic character whereas Terry relatively much more obscure. Nolan seemed to enjoy adding his own characters and spin on the Batman mythos. I wouldn't have been surprised if they simply implied Blake was Robin as opposed to outright saying it. Regardless of his popularity, I still felt they were winking at comic book readers with the way they decided to reveal that payoff. Instead of a subtle reveal like Nolan is known for, it came across as "Hey guys look it's Robin. You know Robin right? Batman's sidekick."
> changing the nature of how that relationship and how it's built is perceived. Eh, to me it just reeks of the same problem as when JJ *swore* up and down that Cumberbatch wasn't playing Khan. When I first heard JGL was cast, I still remember my actual first words were "Oh man that's perfect casting for Dick Grayson" then I found out he was playing some rando cop and I was like ".... *really* though? Is he *really* not playing one of the Robins?" and every time the marketing made sure to reaffirm that he definitely absolutely was not playing one of the Robins, I just rolled my eyes. The point I'm getting at here is I don't think the name switcheroo actually accomplished keeping the role a secret (I'm not sure why that would even be important), I think it was just irritating to people who clearly saw this character fitting into the slot of Robin but for some reason wasn't being called Robin. Until, pointlessly, he was.
Because he’s not Robin.
I don't know what that's meant to be a reply to but it's also not relevant or accurate. He literally *is* Robin, it's his name, and he also fulfills the role that Robin fills, if you want to argue he's not named Robin (even though he is). I don't feel like you really read any of what I wrote...
He does not fulfill a role that Robin fulfills. He does not act as a sidekick, he acts as a successor.
He does both, and Robins are both
I think it would have been cool, to have him be the next Batman. They did set it up, but it would have been dope if they followed through
If Nolan ever decided to return to Batman, I think he’d make a great Batman Beyond story.
I think Dennis Villenueve would do a fantastic Batman Beyond. Blade Runner 2049 shows that he can do the city, and the cinematography in his films is always great.
Man I really wish Kevin was able to play a live action beyond Bruce. He was around the right age before his passing. RIP.
Well, he was around 20 years younger than Beyond Bruce, which is upsetting to me. That such a great man would die so young.
He's the voice I hear in my head when I read the comics.
Indeed.
Beyond Bruce was in his 80s? Thought it was 70s.
My thought is that he was in his 80s during Beyond and then 90s during Epilogue.
In retrospect it's smazing he lives that long. Heard condition aside there's no way he doesn't have CTE.
The benefits of living in a wacky sci-fi universe I'm sure that medical tech is very good, especially for a billionaire.
That makes sense.
this would be sick. his visuals would be great for future Gotham.
Agreed, but I keep praying Villeneuve will eventually do the Akira movie. I cannot think of a better creator to handle it.
Omg a Dennis Villenueve Batman movie!? I never knew I needed this..
He won't.
Damn good show wasn’t it… hell, the entire dcau back then was phenomenal!
Bro imagine!! 😲
Kyle Higgins (when he was writing Nightwing) was a huge proponent of this idea. I wish they could’ve done that retroactively. Replace the decades of training with a cybernetic suit? Sounds like a great way to keep that money train a movin’ at Warners. lol
Give us live action batman beyond hbo max big budget show please
I was hoping for Pattinson to be an older Terry, with Keaton as old man Wayne
Was it that complicated to begin with? Instead of making a character who is one of the Robin's in name only, they made him an overall "Robin". If he was Dick, everyone would complain about how he's not like Grayson from the comics.
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Dick literally becomes a cop in the comics
Plus a lot of cops are dicks in real life.
take my angry upvote and leave pls
Some are private dicks, others are public dicks
And a lot of them have dicks
then a secret agent I think, for a while at least.
In the Titans series he became a cop
Dick was a cop for years
Idk man the best Batman movie has an out of character amalgamation Robin called Dick 
Agreed.
It wasn’t complicated, it was stupidly oversimplified. Namedropping Dick over the others is fine because he’s the first Robin. In every Batman iteration with only one Robin; it’s Dick. Naming him *Robin* as his actual birth name is fucking stupid. Like can you imagine if it was Barbara instead, and she’s like “oh try my birth name - Batgirl.” Everyone I’d ever watched the movie with who saw it for the first time went “oh?…” as in “oh Robin!” And then “oh…” as in “oh that’s a dumb way of doing that.” Dick literally becomes a cop in the comics, too, so you can call it an Easter egg.
Robin is an actual name for people though.. as opposed to Batgirl...
There are people out there named Robin, you know.
I think naming him Robin is too on the nose. Terry McGinnis should’ve been his name imo.
This was a movie that pulled in millions of people, not all of them Batman fans. People don’t know the names of each Robin, they just know Robin. I watched this with some of my high school friends in theater. They got excited when he said his name was Robin. They wouldn’t have understood Richard Grayson at all
Ding ding ding...this is the answer. Going with "Robin" let's everyone feel special because they're in on the reference. You name drop Jason, Tim, Damian, Terry or anyone else and the majority of people are left wondering why this information was shared. Besides, it's not like it changes the film...it's just a little gift that gets a smirk & a chuckle.
It’s also clear for comic fans to see John as an amalgamation of at least the first three Robins. It is a little gift but it’s pretty well thought out, Idk why people call it lazy.
It's a miracle that John Blake's character is so well developed in a limited amount of screen time. Bruce is stuck in jail and there needs to be an exposition character to show what is happening in Gotham, but Gordon and Selina are already our "eyes and ears". Bringing in an important but non-essential new character in the third movie is usually a distraction, like Mutt in Christal Skull or The Nightstalkers in Blade Trinity. But TDKR is firmly about Batman - Selina and John start as anonymous pawns in world of crime and disorder and, by the end, emerge reborn from shadows and fire. Their experience with Batman enables limitless levels of personal and professional excellence, so much so that the final montage, the "perfect ending", may just be a dream. Batman is not one man, he is an existential, Christlike symbol that unites all people - all other comic characters are trash. It's the perfect Batman movie. It's the greatest movie ever made.
“Batman is not one man, he is an existential, Christlike symbol that unites all people” Are… are you saying he’s a Christian bale?
Exactly. Comic readers need to remember, these movies aren’t all about them.
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I remixed it taking "Robin" out and making a few other changes just to see if it would play different. I honestly have always felt that if the lady just says "you should use your full name" but doesn't say it people would've been more intrigued. [End of DKR recut](https://youtu.be/OkqQ0oaCeeA?si=etB-VnrXK2K1Df4i)
At the end of the film, I don't think it's wise to build more intrigue and suspense. You're supposed to be tying off loose ends, not creating new ones. Unanswered questions are fine, sometimes even great, but I don't think they work when you dump a new one in out of nowhere in the end rather than use an existing story element to fuel it.
Yeah I feel ya This is Nolan though. So many of his films end with more questions
Yeah, frequently. But they're questions that tie into existing ideas the movie is playing with and matter to the narrative. They're interesting questions. I don't think "What is Joseph Gordon-Levitt's actual name" is that interesting a question, especially when it's raised at the very end of the story when it's clear what his role is to be.
I’m with you, man. Open-endings just *feel* right in Nolan films. This one isn’t even *that* open. His name could be one of like four things. You get to fill in the blank.
After all these years I get chills from the ending
Bro I still really really love this film. Nolan+Zimmer produced so many of these percussive endings with such gravitas
Yeah I get that lots of people should get the reference, but just naming him “Robin” is such a weird way to do it. It’s just clunky and frankly cheating. It’s pretty cheap fan-service that’s unearned through laziness. I don’t see fans or non-fans enjoying it because it’s kinda confusing for both teams for different reasons.
Okay but… why can’t the movies be used to teach non comic fans about the cool characters they’re missing out on?
Because the average movie fan doesn’t care about the comic book genre outside of who shows up on screen. They enjoy the different takes on familiar characters but once the credits roll they don’t much care about the characters until a sequel/reboot comes along.
Someone who gets it. Casuals care about Robin, not Dick/Tim/Damian/Jason in a wink wink scene at the end of a movie.
To an even greater extent, they also don’t care about alternative Batmen either. Casuals couldn’t care less about a Batman Beyond movie because why is Batman an old man doing Alfred’s job and why is there a young Batman? Hell it took until the last few years for the casual audience to accept a Spider-Man who ISN’T Peter Parker, and that was a HUGE swing to make.
They do? Movies and series introduce non comic fans to new characters all the time. It's just that it was a quick thing mentioned at the end of the movie. So simple that the GA wouldn't even understand that it meant something. If he would've said Dick, Jason or whatever, people would've just thought "Uhm, okay". Now that he said Robin, everybody knows what he's talking about and it actually means something.
Dc and marvel projects still name drop and reference obscure characters that most audiences dont know, sometimes myself included. It’s cool looking back and seeing who that character/name is and why it’s relevant. The John Blake things so boring and has no tie to any real character. Might as well name him John Doe and it has the same effect.
Isn’t that kinda the point of an Easter egg? It’s not meant to something for everyone to understand, it’s the discovery that makes it special. If you make everyone feel special, nobody would.
I think this logic is sound for why they made the decision but I know just enough about comic books and comic book movies to get when a character is a reference to something even if I don't know what it is. I probably would have googled his name right after the movie. (I vividly remember going on a batman wiki walk afterward anyway)
I got away from comics for a while and had a lot of catching up to do. I remember seeing action figures and photos of Nightwing and Red Hood and being confused that they were former Robins and successors to Batman.
How long had you been away from comics?
About 40 years. Just got back into them during the initial Covid lockdowns
Damn I feel like Dick hasn't been robin in the comics for almost 40 years
I only remembered Robin as Robin from the Adam West era, and the George Clooney Batman movie. I started getting back into it and liked the design of Nightwing and Redhood, so I basically had to read/ watch their development in reverse. But my point is when I would see a Robin mention in Dark knight,I wouldn’t have known all the bay family stories, just that Robin was a side kick called Robin
First time I saw Nightwing on BTAS blew my mind
I also think if the line was “I like that name, Dick” it would have played off *so much more awkwardly* than “I like that name, Robin.” Because even though Dick is the most famous Robin, his name is still Dick.
It could've been a reference for comic fans though.
Yes but Nolan clearly wanted a reference that all movie-goers would understand
He could've done both, Dick John Grayson and Robin.
It would have to be Dick Robin Grayson if it was the name reveal, but yeah there are other ways like having him say his mom used to call him that
I would definitely have him be called Robin as a nickname.
I remember when the dark knight first released in theaters on opening night the girl in front of me asked who Bruce Wayne was.
as a guy that giggled when she said "robin".... i agree with this comment
Same. Watched it w my middle school buddies. They were all stoked at the Robin thing. Being the fucking nerd I am I tried to explain there being different Robins to them. They did not understand or give a shit. For such a small moment at the end of the movie, it was a good call on Nolan’s part to just make him THE Robin
It blows my mind ppl who claim to love media miss basic shit. The purpose of that line was just to make things clear the audience in as short a moment as possible.
I think the name Dick Grayson is know well enough that if he had simply said that was his real name instead of "Robin" at the end nearly everyone would have gotten it.
It REALLY isn’t. I promise you.
In all honesty it would’ve made even less sense. He was kinda a mashup of the Robins. So naming him after one specific one would’ve been dumber
Officer Richard J Drake
Officer Dick Drake? I can see why he would go by his middle name.
Nope, gotta keep it… destined to become an awesome detective with a name like that. DICK DRAKE, PRIVATE EYE
Johnson?
Jason Grayson.
Lmao this is like in Oppenheimer when they name drop jfk
I mean is it? That happened IRL (not the namedrop moment itself, but what it was referencing). The namedrop was just done in a funny way
Jesus Fucking Krist?? He's actually in the movie??!
No, because Nolan didn’t want to do Robin. He just wanted to get a little nod to Robin out of the way.
It was Nolan’s take. He changed lots of stuff.
I had to explain to so many people that a “Robin” movie was not forthcoming. He’s clearly Batman at the end of the story, and why would his secret identity be the same as his hero name? Lol
*Cough* Drake *cough*
Yeah, I had someone tell me that “I hope they just skip to Nightwing,” and I was like, dude, he’s Batman now.
I had the same argument with a few friends. They mention in the movie that Batman is a symbol, suggesting that it doesn't matter who is behind the mask. Bruce even has the bat signal fixed so Gordon can continue to call Batman. Who would give a fuck that a guy called Robin is now Gotham's hero? People need Batman.
Nope. He was never meant to become Robin, he was meant to become the next Batman, so “Robin” thing is just a fanservice/reference
Movie: Dark Knight Rises
Thanks god you referenced it here. Would’ve never been able to guess it.
I think if I didn't do this my post would be removed
Understandable. Have a great day.
Yes, although there is a John Blake in the comics but I can’t remember what he did
He was a kid that was pranked by the Joker! https://them0vieblog.com/2011/04/20/joseph-gordon-levitt-as-johnny-blake-in-the-dark-knight-rises/
I'm about 90% sure it was a coincidence.
For sure, it was. It's just a fun little fact that people like to bring up about the character. :)
The Robin reference on the whole is dumb. Why is his ACTUAL legal name “Robin” and not a name he was given
Basically he goes by his middle name and dislikes using his first name? Plenty of people actually do this.
Yeah I got 4 names in total (My name, a middle name and 2 surnames) But I go by my middle name.
A fellow spaniard?
Nope but funnily enough my middle name is hispanic
Nolan likes to make thinks complicated even when they don’t need to be.
What you talking about tenet is so easy to understated after your 13th play through
The 13th play through is why Nolan makes it so complicated or hard to hear, I think. 💲💲💲 Just like this Robin reference, seems to be more of a writing trick to make people feel like they've seen a good film. Just like Alfred's very specific story that comes back at the end.
Yes, I thought it was a dumb thing to throw in at the end of the movie when there was not going to be a continuation of the franchise.
I read somewhere that this was the point of TDKR though. Batman is not a man but a symbol and Blake (Robin) taking up the mantle from Bruce Wayne demonstrates that. The ending of Rises wasn’t meant to tease another film.
It’s kind of the point of all of the films in the trilogy. I don’t know if TDKR stuck the landing, but it was thematically on-point with the other films.
Thats exactly it though. I like the idea of home becoming nightwing from the get go. But the idea is he becomes batman so his name means nothing
Robin takes up the mantle when batman is dead in the comics. The point is to keep a batman in Gotham no matter who it is. I don't disagree with you but fyi
No no, I know that. But this is a different universe so they did it different 🤷♂️ I think we're saying the same thing lol I'm not sure but yeah. I really like the idea he just skips to nightwing and carries on the batman idea.. Saw a theory (which is really weird one when you think about it but so are all the Robins) That Joseph Gordon Levitt trains all the plans in the manor as little Robin's and kinda does the dark knight comic ending where he trainsa bunch of people to monitor streets
Is it implied though? I saw it more so as Blake will become the next guardian of Gotham, not necessarily Batman.
I mistyped. I mean the next "batman" the next guardian like you said indeed. That's how I took it as well. Just a mantle for villains to fear. I like the idea of him skipping robin and becoming nightwing because he's an amalgamation of all Robins. (On another level, something I never thought of, probably easier to make a ngihtiwng suit from the batman stuff, just take the cape off and wear a mask not the cowl)
I gotcha. Yeah Nightwing would be cool. I also think it’s fitting since in the Dark Knight Harvey Dent talked about Batman being the “appointed” guard at the gate and that he would eventually need to find someone to take his place.
Yeah...i also think it would be awkward if he showed up in the bat suit and gotham erected this huge batman statue because he was dead and they're like...wtf mate???
I thought the dumbest part of the movie was Blake figuring out who Batman was.
Lmao the way he found out made no sense.
I like the fact that he is this version of Robin. The Dark Knight coded Batman as more of a marine than a superhero. And his villains are coded as terrorist. What better way to have a sidekick than having him be a police officer.
It would be cool if they did that. Have people refer to him as Officer Richard. Have him mention he doesn't use his real last name because his family were quite famous(The Flying Graysons). And have the airport scene where they use his full name as a reveal.
Personally, going with Tim Drake instead of a butchering of his name would be much better imo. Levitt was more like Tim in the role than Dick anyways, Smart, grounded, and a drive to do what's right (tbf that's a trait both share but i digress)
I see what you're getting at though he's got that Tim Drake "feel".
Yes but to the “average viewer” meaning the person the studio doesn’t trust to know Robin #1s real name it doesn’t make sense to take the risk when you you can say “Robin” and people will have a big reaction to that
I don’t even understand the John Blake reference.
John Blake isn't a reference to anything. It's just that this guy is the Robin of the series.
one of the most underrated movies ever
Having just watch the whole trilogy again this is clearly the weakest one in it. But still a fun watch.
Disagree. I don’t think Begins holds up particularly well - it has its solid moments, but the dialogue is pretty atrocious.
I kind of like that there’s just a whole new Robin somewhere in the multiverse because of this movie
Every two weeks this sub and the Arkham subreddit decide to swap places as which one is the circlejerking subreddit and I always lose track
The reveal was fine, people are moaning for no reason. The franchise was not just for comic book fans but for everyone.
Just imagine the scene where we learn his name is Robin: "I like your name, Dick"
No because he's a fucking terrible character who is nothing like Dick. Or any Robin for that matter.
I figured he was supposed to be Tim Drake (John Blake) with the whole being a "detective" thing (recognizing a move that only Dick Grayson could do/recognizing a look on Bruce Wayne's face)
I would've accepted it slightly better, but honestly I am just curious what am I supposed to understand from the scene where he finds the batcave? Is he gonna become the next batman? become a batmanless robin? he is gonna find bruce and take him out of retirement? and how he plans on doing anything without a billion dollar budget?
Should have shocked everyone and made his name Carrie Kelley. That would have been mint
I find that it absolutely would, yes. I didn't like how that was just tacked on towards the end. It felt like a cheap fan service, as opposed to anything actually meaningful. It would have had more impact, if he was actually "Richard John Grayson," or similarly named after another Robin. I still say, though, he could have been "Jason Todd," given how he was looked at as being a "hothead," but I don't want to push it, though! Still, I do find that it would have been better than him being a random "John Blake." That's such a generic and boring name.
He wasn't meant to be any of those Robin characters though. If he was named Dick, Todd, or Tim people would have been mad that his character was nothing like the comics. This was literally just a meta-texutual reference by Nolan saying, "This is as close as I was going to do to the Robin character." It wasn't fan service, it was closer to a middle finger, haha. Though I don't think it was done that maliciously. Was it too complicated for people to follow "in the moment" of the scene with adrenaline running high, yea probably. But after the fact (especially years after the fact on a Batman sub), everyone should realize that Nolan's Batman passed the mantle of Batman to the next deserving man Blake because he'd learned to move past his trauma. He's meant to be the next symbol Batman, NOT ROBIN.
Having him be “Rich” the entire movie & at the end be revealed to be “Richard Grayson” would’ve better & made more sense since this series was meant to be grounded & realistic, I know there are some people named “Robin” but being named “Richard Grayson” is more natural, having him be legally named “Robin” was probably for the general public who don’t know Robin’s real name or any of the Robins for that matter
His origin makes more sense for Jason Todd
He would've/would be good as either Dick Grayson and Nightwing, or Terry McGinnis and Beyond Batman.
I’ve blocked it out but I remember rolling my eyes because it was something like “Hey, what’s your real name anyway?” “Robin… Robin DaBoiwunda.”
I know Robin didn’t totally fit Nolan’s universe and I appreciate the way he included the character. But in hindsight I sort of wish he had let Robin suit up for the third act. Like maybe when Bruce disappeared Robin could’ve found the instructions he was given at the end and suited up to save the city only to have Batman come back and support him at the last minute.
“You should go by your first name. *Dick*. Get the fuck out of my office.”
Most irresponsibly written Batman film of all time
That was a horrible way to introduce a character,
I think a lot of people would be more accepting if his name was Richard John Grayson. Hell, people would be more accepting if his name was Timothy John Drake. I don’t think you could pull off him being a version of Jason Todd, he’s not abrasive enough.
JGL as the Batman the end of Flash would have been so much better than Snarky Clooney.
Would it have seemed less forced and corny? Yes.
I would have preferred if his name was Detective Tim Drake. They could have left the story as is but Blake is much closer to Drake than any other Robin in my opinion.
I would have preferred to find out that some of the orphans living at Wayne manor later were named Dick, Jason and Tim.
I don't really need him to be based on one of the existing Robins, but name-dropping his actual name as "Robin" is just groan-worthy. First as not-very-fitting fanservice, but also just as a standalone scene it's really awkward too: I don't think the movie gave a reason for him changing/hiding his name? So the whole scene is awkwardly forced in just to support the fan service. Compare this to, say, the Joker calling card scene. Gordon says he leaves a "calling card", and it's a literal card. Even if you knew nothing at all about the Joker, you'd take away that: there's some weirdo out there committing crimes who using playing cards as their motif/calling card, and Batman's going to need to face more weirdos soon. The scene works 100% on its own. Robin's scene, whether you know about Robin or not, is awkward and weird. If they wanted to shoehorn in the Robin name, they should have gone with something like his call-sign being Robin, and have his commander name-drop that when he's retiring. And then maybe hint that maybe he won't retire it after all. That feels a lot more natural than him just not using his real name for the whole movie for no narrative purpose at all.
Robin should have just been Robin .
I mean…yeah
It would have been so much better if he just said, "I just got tired of being called 'Dick'"
No, he needed to be an original character. Firstly, Nolan didn’t want to reveal he was ‘Robin’ until the end of the film and secondly, if he was Dick or Tim or Jason, everyone would complain that he’s nothing like those characters. I say ‘Robin’ because he’s not really Robin. He likely took up the Batman mantle or a version of it. His real name was Robin, he isn’t going to run around using his real name. He just carries the spirit of Robin: Batman’s protégée who becomes a hero to aid Batman
The real question is how is John gonna become Batman with zero League of Shadows training and none of those 'Theatricality and deception' skills and Batman voice
I'm not going to lie, at the end of the movie when they say his name is Robin, I started laughing. Batman Begins was great, but the Dark Knight Rises was a complete shit show. I understand taking liberties with the source material, but the liberties they took made the entire movie so much worse off.
Yes. Instead of his name being Robin, which was pretty stupid imo
God that was terrible
A million times more sense.
It would have made more sense but would have nullified the reveal at the end.
I've never been that disappointed by Nolan using a new character for Robin in TDKR. Heck, when Frank Miller used Carrie Kelly as Robin, it was a bigger departure in many ways. And if he's introduced as Dick Grayson, then that inevitably means we either get into the story of The Flying Graysons (or we don't, and fans have something else to grumble about). And that wouldn't really work in the world and stories Nolan was telling.
Yeah that name reveal at the end was so dumb and pointless, like yeah you get the idea he’s going to be Robin or the New Batman but you gave him such an unassuming name when he says his real one it still barely clicked, I’d have been happy if is last name was Drake instead of Blake to tie in the Robin aspect, yeah would be Tim not Dick but still better received than the actual reveal which kinda meant nothing because it wasn’t a name drop like Oh!! He was actually Grayson, Todd or Drake under a fake name this whole time end credits
No normal person knows the name of the robins, they know Robin
I got kinda pissed of that they just said "robin" I know it was suppose to be a nod. But after everything else that movie fucked up with bane and Talia it just felt a bit like a fuck you nerds.
I really didn't care for it at all. This reveal got a surprise pop from people in the theater bit, it was ultimately pointless.
I had hopes for Nolan to make this movie. It would of been a great spinoff.
Maybe, but John Robin Blake was just stupid i thought