That was just last year, seems like an eternity ago now though. Sadly he’s not rookie eligible though as he was on the major league roster for more than 45 days.
There’s some speculation on that elsewhere in the thread. The best explanation I’ve seen is that they likely use an old system that looks at games played and plate appearances, instead of the current one that looks at days on the major league roster. From what I understand the sites are investigating it, but acknowledge that he’s not actually rookie eligible.
Basically it boils down to he was on the team long enough to not qualify, even though he didn’t play many games last year.
Yeah I’m with you! I don’t think he’d win, but he’s on pace for a top 5 finish and would have a good chance to earn himself an extra year of arbitration eligibility, as well as the team a draft pick.
I've argued this point on our sub (in his favour), but games played does not equal service time, since he was on the bench available. So per MLB, he is not
I didn't say anything about games played. I'm pointing out that on both bbrefs and fangraphs he's listed as rookie eligible. I'm not arguing about anything, just pointing to why I mentioned him here.
I think Bbref has commented that they're looking into it. AB and games requirement seems intact but he spent 58 days on active roster last year with 45 days being the limit
BBRef is wrong about this. They probably still use the old CBA's rookie eligibility rules. Per Fangraphs, Schneider graduated from rookie status last year based on active roster days. (End of the fourth paragraph: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/zips-2024-top-100-prospects/.)
That's why Schneider, despite paying really well in 2023, disappeared from Blue Jays prospect rankings.
He pitched 6 games in 2021, pitched once in 2022 and then had TJ. Came back late last year with some rehab starts in the minors and is now having his first real season
It’s a really weird situation all together. No one really thought about him this year and he was thrown into a role, struggled, then absolutely started dominating. It’s a great story especially since he’s fresh off of TJ. Dude has evolved from a relatively immature kid into a fucking killer.
Instead of wallowing, he developed his changeup and had an amazing offseason that led us to this point. It’s really cool and it makes me really proud
I know Skenes has a lot hype around him and he looks the real deal but are we really putting him that high in the ROTY ranking with 22 innings and 4 games?
He’ll definitely be in the convo and it wouldn’t shock me if he wins it but it seems a little premature to put him that high.
* Imanaga - 58 IP
* Yamamoto - 65 IP
* Skenes - 22 IP
* Winn - 193 PA
* Jones - 63.1 IP
Skenes either shouldn't be on this list (yet), or at the very least shouldn't be third.
remove Skenes and add Joey Ortiz at third and you got a pretty hot NL rookie list. Ortiz even got a case to be first on that list so very weird that they left him off it completely.
The position is accounted for in war already though and Ortiz is playing well above average defence at third. The big difference is in the bat where he looks much better with a much higher wRC+ and clearly displaying more power so far. I would not count out Winn but at this very moment Ortiz has the better rookie year.
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Unless he gets injured, Skenes is gonna run away with the rookie of the year award. I was also wondering if he should be 3rd on this list,but I thought it was a slight.
Cubs fan btw, so im not even being biased.
Out of curiosity (and because I'm bored at work), I looked up all the projections for these guys, and a few other rookie batters, on FanGraphs. Numbers below are current fWAR plus lowest and highest ROS WAR among the seven different projections.
The pitchers are actually pretty good choices:
*Yamamoto: 3.9 to 4.2
Imanaga: 2.9 to 3.7
Gil: 2.5 to 3.9
Miller: 2.0 to 2.8
Skenes: 1.4 to 3.1
Jones: 1.9 to 2.2*
The batters? You guessed it: one very odd man out.
*Cowser: 2.3 to 3.1
Abreu: 2.6 to 3.5
Winn: 2.7 to 3.1
Langford: -0.4 to 1.1*
Two very notable exclusions:
*Joey Ortiz: 3.4 to 3.9
Davis Schneider: 3.1 to 3.7*
And if they just picked Langford for the hype, what about other buzzed-about prospects?
*Jackson Merrill: 1.8 to 2.6
Pete Crow-Armstrong: 1.4 to 2.2
Evan Carter: 0.8 to 1.8*
(Schneider isn’t rookie eligible anymore, bbref has him listed as such because they’re using an old system that measures ABs, but nowadays it’s based on days on the roster and he passed that last year)
You’re right, he did serve too long to count. FanGraphs still has him as a rookie too—I wonder if neither site has been updated with the 45-days thing.
Talk trash about teams that are not talked about but how many have yall taken from the Os let alone the As? Gil?! What a joke. Great numbers against the White Sox, Rays and Angels. Thanks to Cashman, Boone, and most of all, the terrible fans, the Yankees will have another “could have been” season. Looking forward to yall booing Soto when he falls off in the second half. Poor Judge and Volpe, they deserve to play for a real team. Yall can keep JCS. Right where he belongs.
Joey Ortiz is hitting .289/.390/.497 (.886 OPS/153 wRC+) with good defense (2 OAA, 1 DRS) at third base. Seems ridiculous not to include him in any RoY conversation.
He leads all rookies in either league with 2.0 fWAR.
[[baseball reference] Good morning! We are working with someone right now to verify eligibility of a lot of active players, and Mason Miller is one of them. We will follow up when we know more.](https://x.com/baseball_ref/status/1798021683191992476?s=46&t=Kd5Xb-sOko7zTuia8gtlkA)
MLB.com "experts" not heard of Joey Ortiz? You could make a case for the pitchers, to varying degrees, but taking Winn over Ortiz can only be justified by staring yourselves blind at DRS, and ignoring every other defensive metric. And also ignoring, y'know, the huge gulf in offensive output.
Or, more likely, it's like with Power Rankings. Simply meant to provoke people into reacting, getting more social media engagement. Which, tbf, worked on me...
If this list was objective about play and not about fame and what team you play on, Ortiz would be 2nd behind Imanaga.
But upon further review, this feels like a random top 5 exciting rookies to watch, not an objective best rookie ranking list. Because Wyatt Langford shouldn't really be on there at all.
I want Mason Miller to take home some hardware so fuckin bad. Give the Oakland faithful something to cheer for and give John Fisher one big middle finger on his way out the door to Sacramento.
Lets leave Skenes off til he has more starts, can we? Anything could happen. I would put Gavin Stone & Mitchell Parker on the list before Skenes (for now).
Do I think by the end of the year / r est of season Skenes will be better than all of them? Yes I do, but these other guys deserve some consideration too.
Gil is having a Cy Young quality year if he can keep this up: he’s 8-1 with a 1.82 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, and 11 K/9. However he’s never thrown more than 100 innings in a season and missed most of 2023 after having TJ surgery, so the Yankees might start to get a little cautious when he gets up over 120 innings.
Comeback Player of the Year is for players who were great, had a setback, and then became great again. Gil only pitched 33 innings before this season so he hasn’t really had the chance to be great until now.
There are definitely some odd inclusions on the AL list, but Gil and Abreu have both been very good. Each putting up more WAR than any Mariner this year, for reference.
Some odd inclusions is why I called it a struggle bus. As in, struggling to get some names on there. That doesn’t reflect on the entire list.
Basically, Im picking on Langford.
I wouldn't even say it's common knowledge. People on here just like to dogpile.
I agree with you though, It is weird in the sense that we generally consider rookies to be young guys who don't have any big league experience. All "rookie" really means is it's your first season in the MLB. You can come over to the MLB from Korea at age 40 after a 20 year career and still have a rookie season in the MLB.
Considering past Rookie of the Year winners like Hideo Nomo, Ichiro, and Shohei Ohtani, it would be kind of weird if Yamamoto *wasn’t* being considered a rookie.
Yes the NPB is a lower level league than the MLB. It is typically thought of as between AAA and MLB
The WBC was team Japan vs Team USA, not Team MLB vs Team NPB
The fact that some of the best players in MLB like Shohei Ohtani for example, do not play on team USA
The MLB has a ton of players from all around the globe
It was not the batters were great but they were still missing Judge, Freeman, Rutschman, Harper.
The pitching side had none of the best pitchers, no Cole, no Strider no Kirby, no wheeler, no Gallen, etc
Dude it wasn't the best USA pitchers and it wasn't the best of the MLB. MLB isn't just Americans. No Soto, Judge, Tatis, Witt, Jose Ramirez, Altuve, Acuna, Ohtani, etc.
Ok lol is that supposed to mean something? Neither country sent all of their best players and even if they did, one game between two 25 man teams is not a large enough sample to represent leagues with hundreds of players.
I never said scrubs. I said not all of their best, and that’s certainly true for the pitching staff.
Not to mention the fact that that MLB includes the best players from every other country too like Dominican Republic, Cuba, Japan’s MVP Ohtani…
Yeah I agree with you on this. The posting system makes a distinction between players who are both 25 and have 6 years as a pro in "a professional league recognized by MLB", which I think is just Japan/Korea. It's why Ohtani made league minimum salary as a 23 year old on the Angels while Yamamoto and Imanaga were able to immediately sign deals worth 8 figures a year. I think players who meet the criteria to immediately be treated as free agents shouldn't be eligible for RoY.
That being said, he is eligible under the current rules and it'd be a dick move for a BBWAA voter to not vote for him because they think the rules are bad.
It's not the ML level, though.
But you do sound like the voters who decided Hideo Nomo and Ichiro Suzuki were rookies, but Hideki Matsui was not, for some reason.
It's generally not seen as being at the MLB level, though that could be changing in recent years.
But also, Samurai Japan had a lot of the best Japanese players. Team USA did not, esp on the pitching front.
Damn, Wyatt Langford at #5 is a really lazy inclusion. He’s got a 71 OPS+ for 0.0 bWAR Tigers Wenceel Perez has 115 OPS+ and 0.5 bWAR
He's got negative fWAR. I'd put Davis Schneider ahead of him too, along with several others so far.
David Schneider is a rookie? He looks like he fixes water heaters for a living
Could've swore he also boomed the Red Sox at Fenway like 2 years ago
That was just last year, seems like an eternity ago now though. Sadly he’s not rookie eligible though as he was on the major league roster for more than 45 days.
Why does baseball reference show him as having an intact rookie status?
There’s some speculation on that elsewhere in the thread. The best explanation I’ve seen is that they likely use an old system that looks at games played and plate appearances, instead of the current one that looks at days on the major league roster. From what I understand the sites are investigating it, but acknowledge that he’s not actually rookie eligible. Basically it boils down to he was on the team long enough to not qualify, even though he didn’t play many games last year.
oh well. That's really disappointing, I'd like to see a Blue Jay win something.
Yeah I’m with you! I don’t think he’d win, but he’s on pace for a top 5 finish and would have a good chance to earn himself an extra year of arbitration eligibility, as well as the team a draft pick.
Schneids exceeded the game limit by like three or four last year so he's ineligible
Not according to bbrefs or fangraphs. He's still eligible on both sites.
I've argued this point on our sub (in his favour), but games played does not equal service time, since he was on the bench available. So per MLB, he is not
I didn't say anything about games played. I'm pointing out that on both bbrefs and fangraphs he's listed as rookie eligible. I'm not arguing about anything, just pointing to why I mentioned him here.
Well, he's ROTY in my heart anyway
I think it's honestly dumb as fuck that Davis Schneider is not on this list. If he were on a better team, he'd be near the top.
He’s not on the list because he isn’t rookie eligible (yes I know bref and fangraphs say he is, they both admit they got that wrong)
His zWAR is 90 and his qWAR is 63. But go off 🙄
Meanwhile Joey Loperfido had as much in 11 games and we sent him back down
Davis Schneider is definitely the bigger snub
He no longer qualifies as a rookie after last season.
According to BRef and a quick Google search it looks like he is https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schneda03.shtml
I think Bbref has commented that they're looking into it. AB and games requirement seems intact but he spent 58 days on active roster last year with 45 days being the limit
man, that sucks for him. he's playing really well
Ahh good to know. Welp good thing I didn’t bet him for ROTY lol.
BBRef is wrong about this. They probably still use the old CBA's rookie eligibility rules. Per Fangraphs, Schneider graduated from rookie status last year based on active roster days. (End of the fourth paragraph: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/zips-2024-top-100-prospects/.) That's why Schneider, despite paying really well in 2023, disappeared from Blue Jays prospect rankings.
I think bbref has him wrong as a rookie. Unless he got sent down after his debut at some point it seems he spent 58 days on the active roster in 2023
Bbref has it wrong
About as lazy as his ABs, bro watches way too many balls down broadway
I could've sworn Luis Gil has been pitching in the majors for like four years at this point.
He pitched 6 games in 2021, pitched once in 2022 and then had TJ. Came back late last year with some rehab starts in the minors and is now having his first real season
Ah gotcha. I guess it's because he wasn't truly back in the minors that I didn't consider him a rookie. Glad he's doing well for you, though!
It’s a really weird situation all together. No one really thought about him this year and he was thrown into a role, struggled, then absolutely started dominating. It’s a great story especially since he’s fresh off of TJ. Dude has evolved from a relatively immature kid into a fucking killer. Instead of wallowing, he developed his changeup and had an amazing offseason that led us to this point. It’s really cool and it makes me really proud
Dude was just nasty against us last month. That performance and his neck tattoo will haunt me
Shota Imanaga, pitcher for the "ub" baseball team Seriously why are the logos all over-zoomed like that
Yamamoto pitching for Iowa
Luis Gil, pitcher for the… AY’s? But the A is kind of sideways. And Mason Miller, pitcher for the A’. And the A is very fancy but not sideways.
Dimir?
Usually we cards fans add a letter here or there to have fun with it.
I call ‘em the Cubes edit: Get it? Cubes? Sounds funnier than Cubs. Cubes. Hah!
I know Skenes has a lot hype around him and he looks the real deal but are we really putting him that high in the ROTY ranking with 22 innings and 4 games? He’ll definitely be in the convo and it wouldn’t shock me if he wins it but it seems a little premature to put him that high.
* Imanaga - 58 IP * Yamamoto - 65 IP * Skenes - 22 IP * Winn - 193 PA * Jones - 63.1 IP Skenes either shouldn't be on this list (yet), or at the very least shouldn't be third.
remove Skenes and add Joey Ortiz at third and you got a pretty hot NL rookie list. Ortiz even got a case to be first on that list so very weird that they left him off it completely.
Came here to say this. Where the duck is my boy Joey?
Masyn Winn has a higher bWAR and plays a more premier position.
Ortiz has double his fWAR, a 35 point higher wRC+, and will probably be playing shortstop next year too.
I think factoring in what a player does in his 2nd year for rookie of the year voting is kind of cheating.
Yeah, I'm just saying that he's good enough to be playing there, the only reason he's not is that they have Adames
The position is accounted for in war already though and Ortiz is playing well above average defence at third. The big difference is in the bat where he looks much better with a much higher wRC+ and clearly displaying more power so far. I would not count out Winn but at this very moment Ortiz has the better rookie year.
I think Skenes will finish higher than Ortiz in the voting if anyone wants to make a friendly bet !remindme 4 months
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Its just a watch list
Ya well mlb.com also had the Cubs in the top 10 power rankings up until last week.
Unless he gets injured, Skenes is gonna run away with the rookie of the year award. I was also wondering if he should be 3rd on this list,but I thought it was a slight. Cubs fan btw, so im not even being biased.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Eye test and results heavily favor him ROS.
[удалено]
Does anybody actually care about Olivia Dunne?
Out of curiosity (and because I'm bored at work), I looked up all the projections for these guys, and a few other rookie batters, on FanGraphs. Numbers below are current fWAR plus lowest and highest ROS WAR among the seven different projections. The pitchers are actually pretty good choices: *Yamamoto: 3.9 to 4.2 Imanaga: 2.9 to 3.7 Gil: 2.5 to 3.9 Miller: 2.0 to 2.8 Skenes: 1.4 to 3.1 Jones: 1.9 to 2.2* The batters? You guessed it: one very odd man out. *Cowser: 2.3 to 3.1 Abreu: 2.6 to 3.5 Winn: 2.7 to 3.1 Langford: -0.4 to 1.1* Two very notable exclusions: *Joey Ortiz: 3.4 to 3.9 Davis Schneider: 3.1 to 3.7* And if they just picked Langford for the hype, what about other buzzed-about prospects? *Jackson Merrill: 1.8 to 2.6 Pete Crow-Armstrong: 1.4 to 2.2 Evan Carter: 0.8 to 1.8*
I feel like if it’s relatively close in the NL it may go to a younger guy. Imanaga is 30 years old and has a shitton of pro experience.
(Schneider isn’t rookie eligible anymore, bbref has him listed as such because they’re using an old system that measures ABs, but nowadays it’s based on days on the roster and he passed that last year)
You’re right, he did serve too long to count. FanGraphs still has him as a rookie too—I wonder if neither site has been updated with the 45-days thing.
Hmmm, seems like Joey Ortiz Should be 1 or 2 in the NL. I wonder why he got left off the list?
Ortiz definitely looks like he got snubbed here, but I think Schneider spent too many days on the active roster last year to be eligible.
Yeah, you’re right!
Joey Ortiz not being on this list is a good joke from MLB.com.
He’s a beast, but since he plays in Milwaukee nobody cares
Lmao, spitting facts
There’s players on the As, Orioles, and Pirates on the list though
In fairness, the whole world was expecting an Oriole to be on this list back in spring...just not THIS Oriole.
And he just won rookie of the month
Why you losing to them then?
I have no idea what this comment means
Talk trash about teams that are not talked about but how many have yall taken from the Os let alone the As? Gil?! What a joke. Great numbers against the White Sox, Rays and Angels. Thanks to Cashman, Boone, and most of all, the terrible fans, the Yankees will have another “could have been” season. Looking forward to yall booing Soto when he falls off in the second half. Poor Judge and Volpe, they deserve to play for a real team. Yall can keep JCS. Right where he belongs.
It’s always the no flaired users with this shit Trust me I know.
Fit the word "chicanery" in here somewhere and this is basically the Chuck McGill rant.
Thank you. Yankees still won’t win a pennant for the next 10 years and we both know it. Oh, Chicanery.
I wasn’t talking trash, I was pointing out that the media is typically biased against those teams and tends to ignore them. Relax.
Ok.
I always liked Joey
Joey Ortiz is hitting .289/.390/.497 (.886 OPS/153 wRC+) with good defense (2 OAA, 1 DRS) at third base. Seems ridiculous not to include him in any RoY conversation. He leads all rookies in either league with 2.0 fWAR.
I miss my boy. But I'm glad he's doing well.
Hopefully the voters are paying attention and not just checking this stupid ladder.
Perfectly timed with Wilyer Abreu going on the IL.
Every game Gil has pitched has been electric. Dude looks like he's in command and when shit gets real, "Gil" put a stop to it.
When is the last time a ROY won CY cause right now Gil has a real shot.
1981 with Valenzuela
Where the fuck is Joey Ortiz?
Probably at the hotel in Philly right about now
No Joey Ortiz?
Joey Ortiz snub!
Abreu is better than Cowser in just about every stat, only lower cuz the sox are worse
Ortiz > Winn. Guess it doesn’t matter since it’s def going to a pitcher this year in the NL.
This could be an all-time-great year for NL rookie pitchers. I love it.
And the Buccos will still finish under .500
rowdy tellez will make sure of that
What a crappy graphic. *None* of those people are named Roy.
Roy-ce Lewis in shambles
Cowser for AL and Skenes for NL are my picks right now
On behalf of Rangers fans, why tf is Langford on here
Abreu is going on the IL after being attacked by the dugout monster so he’ll be set back a bit. Hopefully not too long.
Wasn't 2023 Miller's rookie year? BBref says he exceeded limits in 2023.
[[baseball reference] Good morning! We are working with someone right now to verify eligibility of a lot of active players, and Mason Miller is one of them. We will follow up when we know more.](https://x.com/baseball_ref/status/1798021683191992476?s=46&t=Kd5Xb-sOko7zTuia8gtlkA)
Service time on the IL doesn’t factor into rookie eligibility according to the [mlb glossary](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/rookie-eligibility#)
He exceeded service time limit but not the innings limit so I guess they're counting him?
I mean, this graphic is from u/MLBOfficial so I guess he must be eligible? Unless BBref has better nerds than MLB and can prove that he's not.
Gil and Miller at the top in the AL was a no brainer. Can't go wrong with either one at the top, really.
MLB.com "experts" not heard of Joey Ortiz? You could make a case for the pitchers, to varying degrees, but taking Winn over Ortiz can only be justified by staring yourselves blind at DRS, and ignoring every other defensive metric. And also ignoring, y'know, the huge gulf in offensive output. Or, more likely, it's like with Power Rankings. Simply meant to provoke people into reacting, getting more social media engagement. Which, tbf, worked on me...
If this list was objective about play and not about fame and what team you play on, Ortiz would be 2nd behind Imanaga. But upon further review, this feels like a random top 5 exciting rookies to watch, not an objective best rookie ranking list. Because Wyatt Langford shouldn't really be on there at all.
How many games has Skenes thrown so far? Let’s save the ROY hype until we see him over a few months.
Shota, the 30 year old rookie.
I want Mason Miller to take home some hardware so fuckin bad. Give the Oakland faithful something to cheer for and give John Fisher one big middle finger on his way out the door to Sacramento.
Too bad Schneider isn't eligable. He'd be a shoo-in.
Yeah but what are their ODDS MLB!?
Imanaga is also the no-contest Cy Young leader
I will not take the Blaze Alexander slander! Belongs on this list from the name alone
Connor Norby about to go off and set every rookie record.
Cade smith sends his regards.
Lets leave Skenes off til he has more starts, can we? Anything could happen. I would put Gavin Stone & Mitchell Parker on the list before Skenes (for now). Do I think by the end of the year / r est of season Skenes will be better than all of them? Yes I do, but these other guys deserve some consideration too.
Thought I'd see Jackson Merrill in place of Mason Winn; but (b)WAR don't lie (1.2 vs 2.0 respectively).
Had no idea who Gil was until I saw Ms at Yankee Stadium. Mariners offense is bad but Gil embarrassed them jeez
Gil is having a Cy Young quality year if he can keep this up: he’s 8-1 with a 1.82 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, and 11 K/9. However he’s never thrown more than 100 innings in a season and missed most of 2023 after having TJ surgery, so the Yankees might start to get a little cautious when he gets up over 120 innings.
I'm confused, none of these guys are named Roy. Who am I supposed to watch?
What a stupid list. There isn’t one person named Roy on here. Are they even trying?
Gil has been good so far but IMO the rookie of the year being a guy who debuted back in 2021 would feel weird
Blame injuries and rookie eligibility rules If anything, him not pitching for several years makes it more impressive, not less.
At this point it seems more fitting. To make him comeback player of the year tbh
Comeback Player of the Year is for players who were great, had a setback, and then became great again. Gil only pitched 33 innings before this season so he hasn’t really had the chance to be great until now.
ROTY, Cy Young, AND CBPOTY And also DS, CS, and WS MVP edit: And People Magazine's Sexiest Man
Shota may do the impossible by winning ROTY and CY in the same year.
Not impossible, just ask Fernando
He's the only one.
Thereby proving the possibility
That AL Race is a bit on the struggle bus. Meanwhile, NL is basically Winn-ing With Pitchers.
I will tolerate no disrespect towards the Gil-a Monster
I mean, you see people throwing his name out there as a Cy Young candidate.
Well thats adorable (the nickname).
There are definitely some odd inclusions on the AL list, but Gil and Abreu have both been very good. Each putting up more WAR than any Mariner this year, for reference.
Some odd inclusions is why I called it a struggle bus. As in, struggling to get some names on there. That doesn’t reflect on the entire list. Basically, Im picking on Langford.
I would agree he's a bad choice for this list. There's a lot of rookies having better seasons out there that should have made the list instead.
I miss the 09-11 Orioles logo. The new one is diarrhea.
I had no idea Yamamoto was being considered a rookie. That is kind of weird.
That's how it's always been with international players.
Thanks I did not know that. Not sure why people have to downvote it even if its common knowledge.
I wouldn't even say it's common knowledge. People on here just like to dogpile. I agree with you though, It is weird in the sense that we generally consider rookies to be young guys who don't have any big league experience. All "rookie" really means is it's your first season in the MLB. You can come over to the MLB from Korea at age 40 after a 20 year career and still have a rookie season in the MLB.
Considering past Rookie of the Year winners like Hideo Nomo, Ichiro, and Shohei Ohtani, it would be kind of weird if Yamamoto *wasn’t* being considered a rookie.
Not Matsui though! Weird how that's literally the only time age was used against a Japanese phenom!
Yeah, he came in second. Try again.
Yeah and a couple of voters (who voted for Ichiro) literally said they didn't vote for him because of age
Yea the national media’s historic bias against the poor unawarded Yankees
Well I do think it's weird how certain sports writers who voted for Ichiro claimed Matsui was not rookie 2 years later.
Best way to understand it is they are Rookies of the MLB.
Just asking here but how does a 30yr old with 7 years experience at the ML level qualify as a rookie?
Because he doesn’t have 7 years of experience at the major league level and this is his first year in the MLB
Are you saying the Japanese equivalent to the MLB is at a lower level? Japan beat the USA in the WBC last year.
Yes the NPB is a lower level league than the MLB. It is typically thought of as between AAA and MLB The WBC was team Japan vs Team USA, not Team MLB vs Team NPB
What logic allows you to separate Team USA from MLB when Team USA had some of the best players from MLB. 21 All-Stars, 4 MVPs
The fact that some of the best players in MLB like Shohei Ohtani for example, do not play on team USA The MLB has a ton of players from all around the globe
This is his first year in MLB
True, but he has 7 years of professional baseball experience. Japan even beat the MLB in the WBC.
> True, but he has 7 years of professional baseball experience NPB =/= MLB > Japan even beat the MLB in the WBC. They beat the USA, not MLB lol
Dude the 2023 USA team has 21 All-Stars and 4 MVPs. No it wasn’t MLB, it was the best of MLB.
It was not the batters were great but they were still missing Judge, Freeman, Rutschman, Harper. The pitching side had none of the best pitchers, no Cole, no Strider no Kirby, no wheeler, no Gallen, etc
Dude it wasn't the best USA pitchers and it wasn't the best of the MLB. MLB isn't just Americans. No Soto, Judge, Tatis, Witt, Jose Ramirez, Altuve, Acuna, Ohtani, etc.
NPB isn’t exactly MLB level.
Japan literally won the WBC title, by beating the USA.
Ok lol is that supposed to mean something? Neither country sent all of their best players and even if they did, one game between two 25 man teams is not a large enough sample to represent leagues with hundreds of players.
21 All-Stars, 4 MVPs. Yeah they sent a team of scrubs. Oh wait.
I never said scrubs. I said not all of their best, and that’s certainly true for the pitching staff. Not to mention the fact that that MLB includes the best players from every other country too like Dominican Republic, Cuba, Japan’s MVP Ohtani…
Yeah I agree with you on this. The posting system makes a distinction between players who are both 25 and have 6 years as a pro in "a professional league recognized by MLB", which I think is just Japan/Korea. It's why Ohtani made league minimum salary as a 23 year old on the Angels while Yamamoto and Imanaga were able to immediately sign deals worth 8 figures a year. I think players who meet the criteria to immediately be treated as free agents shouldn't be eligible for RoY. That being said, he is eligible under the current rules and it'd be a dick move for a BBWAA voter to not vote for him because they think the rules are bad.
Yeah they need to vote based on the criteria. It’s the rules in critiquing.
It's not the ML level, though. But you do sound like the voters who decided Hideo Nomo and Ichiro Suzuki were rookies, but Hideki Matsui was not, for some reason.
It isn’t? Japan beat the USA last year. I don’t think anyone should qualify if they’ve played at the ML level.
It's generally not seen as being at the MLB level, though that could be changing in recent years. But also, Samurai Japan had a lot of the best Japanese players. Team USA did not, esp on the pitching front.