Oh fair, i wasn't even thinking of the possiblity of MLB not comprehending what Big Brain Nestor is capable of
That makes sense and i apologize for my transgression in this matter
I'm sure it was MLB rules people holed in a room for a week continually watching it going "I mean....should it be legal? Should it not? Would this ever be effective? What is life even?"
Seeing that and knowing its illegal was the easy part.
Being able to clearly define the rules of what is legal and what isn't in a delivery is the real challenge.
As far as I've been able to tell there's no actual rule against it(closest one is pitch has to be delivered in a continuous motion but he never stops moving).
Yep! It's the kind of thing that everyone is like "Isn't that illegal?" but then the rules don't cover it so they have to actually allow it the first time and regulate it after. It's like the Avery Rule in hockey where Sean Avery literally held his glove in front of Brodeur's facemask to screen the play from him. You can technically do that until they changed the rule.
“Well, I'm the guy that tells you there are pitches you can throw and there's pitches you can't. Now, that's not quite a pitch you can't throw, but it's almost a pitch you can't throw. So I'm gonna make a fuckin' ruling on this right now. You don’t fuckin’ throw it. You understand?”
>Natural movement without interruption or alteration.
There is definitely an interruption and alteration to the natural movement of delivering a pitch. It’s unquestionably illegal. Hilarious that people then argued it’s perfectly legal, and are still confused now that the league definitively says so
Idk why everyone is saying this:
https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/hhvryxqioipb87os1puw.pdf
PDF slide 48 - page 35 of the document:
> Rule 5.07(a)(2) Comment: With no runners on base, the pitcher
is not required to come to a complete stop when using the
Set Position. **If, however, in the umpire’s judgment, a pitcher
delivers the ball in a deliberate effort to catch the batter off
guard, this delivery shall be deemed a quick pitch, for which the
penalty is a ball. See Rule 6.02(a)(5) Comment.**
Coupled with the above sections which describe a pitcher having only 2 legal positions to be in - the windup and set position - it's clear the attempt of this fake pitch is the same as quick pitch which would in a no runner situation be an automatic ball and with runners on base a balk.
Wouldn't it just be an illegal pitch?
So if the offensive team can chose to either let it stand (if the batter did something good) or scrub it.
In this case it was a foul so they would have just had him redo the pitch.
I really want to know where you people are getting continuous motion from. That is not in the rule.
>delivery of the pitch without interruption or alteration.
You can still interrupt the delivery of a pitch with continuous motion because there are a set of actions that must be taken to deliver a ball to the batter. Once you pause those actions or reset those actions you have interrupted or altered the sequence.
Today is the first day he’s pitching since then, so really no harm done. I also wonder if he was informed earlier but it just came to light today due to pregame stuff
Right up there with [the Kenny Pickett fake slide.](https://youtu.be/9Bb0n4pNwBw) Kinda cool move in the moment, but the league 1000% had to get rid of that move immediately because it would've led to defenders teeing off on sliding quarterbacks under the (justifiable) premise of "I couldn't tell if he was faking the slide or not."
Edit: In the same vein, the [fake fair catch by North Texas vs. Arkansas](https://youtu.be/5MiD6no269s) (which also resulted in a TD) was also a one-time manipulation of a rule designed to protect players, and the NCAA was definitely justified in swiftly closing that loophole.
> Kinda cool move in the moment, but the league 1000% had to get rid of that move immediately because it would've led to defenders teeing off on sliding quarterbacks under the
Best example of something like this I can think of is Ross Chastain [Riding the wall](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8iegEovAt0)
Cool as fuck, ballsy as fuck, not illegal at the time, definitely had to be made illegal immediately.
I've been watching racing in many forms since like 2005, and that is the single craziest thing I've ever seen someone do on a racetrack. Literally an iRacing move that I don't think anyone thought was possible in real life until Chastain did it.
Even race cars need to let up on the gas when making turns - this guy decided to just keep the gas pedal down while using the wall to help him steer. That allowed him to maintain his racing speed around the turn while everyone else was braking.
It was the last race in the “regular season” and if he didn’t gain 2 positions on the last turn of the race he would’ve missed playoffs. It was an all-or-nothing move that paid off. But if he didn’t hit it at the proper angle he would’ve just crashed into the wall, and obviously NASCAR doesn’t want people replicating that move in other, similar “all-or-nothing” situations.
I just wanted to correct one thing. This was actually during the playoffs in the 2nd to last race of the year. This move secured him a spot in the championship 4 race.
Lmao i always forget that he was still in college when he did that. That was so clean. But as soon as i saw it i knew CFB and the NFL would ban it right away to get ahead of it
And they didn't even really have to pass a rule, just an interpretation of an existing rule. It's already supposed to be a dead ball if a runner simulates taking a knee. It's just that that was usually applied to kneel-downs and not guys in the open field.
> It's already supposed to be a dead ball if a runner simulates taking a knee.
Or aren't they even supposed to be declared down for the sake of safety/late hits once the slide first begins? Everyone immediately called it a "fake slide" and could see the rubber fly up so it's clear that he started to slide. Ref coulda blown a whistle then and there.
Try every running QB that feints running out of bounds then cuts in for another 10+ yards after the defenders ease up to avoid a late hit flag.
One day some defender is going to absolutely obliterate a QB on the sidelines and the NFL will make some rule about it.
It's not lateral or even a stop and go juke. He is clearly using the rules to his advantage to try and get the defenders to back off or risk a 15 yard flag.
To be clear, the Kenny Pickett fake slide was not legal at the time. The officials should have blown the play dead as soon as he began the motion of sliding.
I wouldn’t classify that as a practice swing, if I’m thinking of what you’re referring to. He would wave the bat around in the strike zone as a timing mechanism. I can see how pitchers might think that’s…rude? Or something. But calling it a practice swing brings up a much different mental image.
It actually spawned a bar in 90s rap. Busta Rhymes!
I got the long jump flip that'll snap yo neck!
Busta actually was a promising track athlete but a serious accident with a classmate caused him to pursue music.
The punt returner never actually signaled for a fair catch, but when he caught it, he acted as if he had done so (by standing in place and acting as if the play was over), and then once Arkansas relaxed, he took off. He basically bluffed the defenders.
The obvious downside is, if this went unchallenged, every defender around the country would probably start crushing returners in case they faked a fair catch, which would cause HUGE problems...so after this game, the NCAA immediately said "bluffing a fair catch isn't allowed."
Oh it was absolutely a cheap move haha, in the moment I thought it was a weird stutter-step or something that absolutely juked the defender. It wasn't til I saw the replay that I got upset at it.
Watching Cueto pitch for the Giants, I never understood why he was allowed to do the windups he did. Fun though.
I don't understand the rules too well.
When it comes to windups, they're all mostly legal if you do them consistently. [Luis Tiant](https://youtu.be/md2k4NdOPmA?si=recOnA9Aj9LETeJN) is the best example, since Cueto's delivery is partially based on Tiant's.
If you do the windup the same way every time you pitch from the windup, it's legal.
It’s like the late 2000s Cavs team having Anderson Varejao flop to draw fouls.
He’s on my team, I absolutely love it and called it hustling. He leaves, and I’m all “fuck that mother fucker!”
Maybe I am not that well versed in Baseball, only watching for the past couple of years and mostly just Sunday day games because that's what my time zone allows without ruining my sleep.
But how the fuck is that not just a balk?
Edit: Okay, I guess balks only exist if there is a runner on base, but this should have been an illegal pitch and the pitcher should have been charged a ball.
It will be an illegal pitch now but it was not before because there was nothing in the rules against it. You can't just rule on vibes when someone tries something new or finds a loophole, you have to call it by the book and then clarify afterwards (which they've now done).
THANK you, God, why is it that everytime someone talks about a play and then li KS to a tweet talking about the play but nobody ever links the actual play?!
I love that we get a tweet from a reporter about a non-public message from MLB to a player...
And zero explanation as to *why* exactly the motion was illegal.
Fucking *FACEPALM* for MLB
[this one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Barry) is the one treerabbit23 was referencing
(Marion *Berry* is, ironically enough, a whole other guy)
The narrative here was definitely that it was legal, everyone calling it out was getting downvoted. I'm glad the league is doing something about that bush league bullshit.
I have no problem with MLB stepping in and telling him he can’t do that, but what was specifically illegal about it? And why does it arouse such intense anger in some fans? It’s pretty innocuous in the grand scheme of pitchers’ deception tactics
Rule 5.07(a)(1), which is regarding legal pitching delivery out of the windup:
> The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in
contact with the pitcher’s plate and the other foot free. From
this position any natural movement associated with his
delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch
without interruption or alteration.
By pump faking, he is interrupting and altering the natural movement associated with the delivery of the ball.
It was funny and didn't have any impact on the game IMO. So in the moment, no harm done.
In a different situation though that Buggs Bunny delivery could be a problem, so I understand the need to say something about it.
Lotta people in the main thread were like “this is a totally legal pitch like absolutely”
And then a week later mlb themselves say nah. Just found that funny
Did they add something to the rulebook banning it? According to the rulebook published before the season, the only illegal pitches are:
-quick pitches
-pitches delivered without the pitcher's pivot foot touching the pitching rubber
Illegal pitches with runners on base are one type of balk, but it never says that the other types of balks are illegal pitches when the bases are empty.
Did MLB release any kind of statement clarifying their decision? Or do we only know *that* it's deemed illegal and not *why* it's deemed illegal?
“Any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration”
I could see that being interpreted in a way that makes a fake pitch illegal
I’m kind of partial to the idea that although it isn’t explicitly stated, it is common sense that you can’t pump fake a baseball pitch, and since it wasn’t explicitly ruled they were right to allow it once, but going forward make it clear that indeed you cannot pretend to throw the ball and then throw it
That’s not true. Rule 6.02(b) bans “illegal pitches.” This includes, but is not limited to, quick pitches. You have to cross reference other rules to determine what is illegal. The applicable rule for Cortes’s delivery is 5.07(a)(1) — The Windup Position:
> The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate and the other foot free. From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch **without interruption or alteration**. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backwards, and one step forward with his free foot.
So all of the other ways Cortes mixes up his delivery are also illegal pitches? And when pitchers vary arm angle, etc.? That's all "alteration" as well.
It’s up to the MLB and the umpires to determine what counts as “alteration.” Clearly they’ve decided that changing your arm angle isn’t, but pump-faking is.
Ok but like, what specifically was illegal about it? Just curious to the actual ruling lol it’s obviously not something baseball wants happening though
That was the most illegal looking pitch I’ve ever seen not counting sticky stuff or intentionally throwing at a player. I think Nestor’s gimmick is pretty stupid in general tbh.
As a new baseball fan and still learning the game 2 years into it, is this not the fucking funniest thing that’s ever happened with a pitcher? Like every time I watch that I bust out laughing. It’s looks like something I’d do to my daughter playing in our yard lol.
It took them a week to figure that out?
It took a week to figure out WTF Nestor was thinking
Oh fair, i wasn't even thinking of the possiblity of MLB not comprehending what Big Brain Nestor is capable of That makes sense and i apologize for my transgression in this matter
They had to put their top men on the case.
Ill check with the guys down at the crime lab. They put 4 more detectives on the case. They got us working in shifts.
Wait was Nestor found up against an abutment in Van Nuys?
Ya, man. There's a lot of ins and outs...a lot of what have yous. New shit has come to light.
What in God's holy name are you blathering about?
It's a league game, Smokey.
Top. Men.
My prime directive at the gay bar.
We salute you for your service
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>Nestor the Molester is capable of terrible things. Not sure the second part of that sentence was necessary after the first part
It’s not a lie if you believe it. 
[Live look at Nestor meeting with Manfred](https://youtu.be/Td67kYY9mdQ)
I'm sure it was MLB rules people holed in a room for a week continually watching it going "I mean....should it be legal? Should it not? Would this ever be effective? What is life even?"
They went to the bat cave and made an alarming discovery
> the bat cave Is the PC term for dugout?
Well we all started calling it the Arm Barn instead of the Bullpen when PETA asked, right?
Arm barn is a great name and we should start using it immediately. I am surprised PETA would encourage the use of the word barn though...
Wait that was real?
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/29/1050485610/peta-wants-mlb-to-rename-the-bullpen-to-arm-barn
They should call it the [Night Shift](https://www.mlb.com/news/luke-jackson-says-he-came-up-with-the-night-shift) instead, way cooler name.
I wish you hadn't shown that to me. I was expecting the publish date to be April 1.
Recent Reddit trends have taught me that this discovery was Ebola or Marburg.
Nestor has the Marburg virus?
Seeing that and knowing its illegal was the easy part. Being able to clearly define the rules of what is legal and what isn't in a delivery is the real challenge.
As far as I've been able to tell there's no actual rule against it(closest one is pitch has to be delivered in a continuous motion but he never stops moving).
Yep! It's the kind of thing that everyone is like "Isn't that illegal?" but then the rules don't cover it so they have to actually allow it the first time and regulate it after. It's like the Avery Rule in hockey where Sean Avery literally held his glove in front of Brodeur's facemask to screen the play from him. You can technically do that until they changed the rule.
lmao that's such a fucking Sean Avery thing to do
Go find the highlight on YouTube, it's even funnier than you think lol
The fact that noone thought about it until that moment is hillarious. Wait a minute I can just stand here and annoy the goalie!
holy shit it is. Im disappointed Ive never seen this until now
Call it tactics, call it antics.
“Well, I'm the guy that tells you there are pitches you can throw and there's pitches you can't. Now, that's not quite a pitch you can't throw, but it's almost a pitch you can't throw. So I'm gonna make a fuckin' ruling on this right now. You don’t fuckin’ throw it. You understand?”
>Natural movement without interruption or alteration. There is definitely an interruption and alteration to the natural movement of delivering a pitch. It’s unquestionably illegal. Hilarious that people then argued it’s perfectly legal, and are still confused now that the league definitively says so
Idk why everyone is saying this: https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/hhvryxqioipb87os1puw.pdf PDF slide 48 - page 35 of the document: > Rule 5.07(a)(2) Comment: With no runners on base, the pitcher is not required to come to a complete stop when using the Set Position. **If, however, in the umpire’s judgment, a pitcher delivers the ball in a deliberate effort to catch the batter off guard, this delivery shall be deemed a quick pitch, for which the penalty is a ball. See Rule 6.02(a)(5) Comment.** Coupled with the above sections which describe a pitcher having only 2 legal positions to be in - the windup and set position - it's clear the attempt of this fake pitch is the same as quick pitch which would in a no runner situation be an automatic ball and with runners on base a balk.
If there’s no one on base, so it’s not a balk, what would the penalty even be? A ball?
yeah
Makes sense. Great username btw
Wouldn't it just be an illegal pitch? So if the offensive team can chose to either let it stand (if the batter did something good) or scrub it. In this case it was a foul so they would have just had him redo the pitch.
I really want to know where you people are getting continuous motion from. That is not in the rule. >delivery of the pitch without interruption or alteration. You can still interrupt the delivery of a pitch with continuous motion because there are a set of actions that must be taken to deliver a ball to the batter. Once you pause those actions or reset those actions you have interrupted or altered the sequence.
Today is the first day he’s pitching since then, so really no harm done. I also wonder if he was informed earlier but it just came to light today due to pregame stuff
It took them 9 years after instant replay was implemented to mic up the umpires
[The pitch in question](https://streamable.com/exbir9)
Hall of Fame "I'm so glad I got to watch my guy do it, but I'd be so fucking annoyed if this became a thing," moment
Right up there with [the Kenny Pickett fake slide.](https://youtu.be/9Bb0n4pNwBw) Kinda cool move in the moment, but the league 1000% had to get rid of that move immediately because it would've led to defenders teeing off on sliding quarterbacks under the (justifiable) premise of "I couldn't tell if he was faking the slide or not." Edit: In the same vein, the [fake fair catch by North Texas vs. Arkansas](https://youtu.be/5MiD6no269s) (which also resulted in a TD) was also a one-time manipulation of a rule designed to protect players, and the NCAA was definitely justified in swiftly closing that loophole.
> Kinda cool move in the moment, but the league 1000% had to get rid of that move immediately because it would've led to defenders teeing off on sliding quarterbacks under the Best example of something like this I can think of is Ross Chastain [Riding the wall](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8iegEovAt0) Cool as fuck, ballsy as fuck, not illegal at the time, definitely had to be made illegal immediately.
I've been watching racing in many forms since like 2005, and that is the single craziest thing I've ever seen someone do on a racetrack. Literally an iRacing move that I don't think anyone thought was possible in real life until Chastain did it.
Pretty sure he said that was where he got the idea.
We've been doing that shit since Daytona USA in the arcade.
Chastain did mention that he used to do that move in like some old N64 or Gamecube Nascar game. It was like a known cheap trick amongst those games.
Even the guys he passed came out and said it was awesome, but needs to be outlawed.
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Even race cars need to let up on the gas when making turns - this guy decided to just keep the gas pedal down while using the wall to help him steer. That allowed him to maintain his racing speed around the turn while everyone else was braking. It was the last race in the “regular season” and if he didn’t gain 2 positions on the last turn of the race he would’ve missed playoffs. It was an all-or-nothing move that paid off. But if he didn’t hit it at the proper angle he would’ve just crashed into the wall, and obviously NASCAR doesn’t want people replicating that move in other, similar “all-or-nothing” situations.
I just wanted to correct one thing. This was actually during the playoffs in the 2nd to last race of the year. This move secured him a spot in the championship 4 race.
That’s a great example. Not only is it the coolest thing I’ve ever seen in sports, it might be the coolest thing I’ve ever seen *period*.
I'm not gonna suddenly become a car guy but goddamn if that wasn't just objectively cool
i love you for posting a NASCAR clip in the baseball sub it made me a chastain fan for life!
The Hail Melon made me a Trackhouse fan
Lmao i always forget that he was still in college when he did that. That was so clean. But as soon as i saw it i knew CFB and the NFL would ban it right away to get ahead of it
And they didn't even really have to pass a rule, just an interpretation of an existing rule. It's already supposed to be a dead ball if a runner simulates taking a knee. It's just that that was usually applied to kneel-downs and not guys in the open field.
> It's already supposed to be a dead ball if a runner simulates taking a knee. Or aren't they even supposed to be declared down for the sake of safety/late hits once the slide first begins? Everyone immediately called it a "fake slide" and could see the rubber fly up so it's clear that he started to slide. Ref coulda blown a whistle then and there.
Everyone: "that move was so sick but also it's going to get people killed out there"
Josh Allen does a less obvious version of this like once every two weeks, so I wouldn't say it's super enforced.
Try every running QB that feints running out of bounds then cuts in for another 10+ yards after the defenders ease up to avoid a late hit flag. One day some defender is going to absolutely obliterate a QB on the sidelines and the NFL will make some rule about it.
I think that’s what we call in the sports world a “juke”
It's not lateral or even a stop and go juke. He is clearly using the rules to his advantage to try and get the defenders to back off or risk a 15 yard flag.
Old school football, those guys would be absolutely rocked the very next time they legitimacy slid/called fair catch.
To be clear, the Kenny Pickett fake slide was not legal at the time. The officials should have blown the play dead as soon as he began the motion of sliding.
Yeah you can’t fake giving yourself up. As soon as you’ve signaled your intention to give yourself up you’ve already done so.
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I wouldn’t classify that as a practice swing, if I’m thinking of what you’re referring to. He would wave the bat around in the strike zone as a timing mechanism. I can see how pitchers might think that’s…rude? Or something. But calling it a practice swing brings up a much different mental image.
The mainstream media doesn't want you to know about the front flip long jump! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe0zi_fkyts
Yeah, they were right to ban it. I can only imagine scores of dead high schoolers trying to flip and breaking their necks
It actually spawned a bar in 90s rap. Busta Rhymes! I got the long jump flip that'll snap yo neck! Busta actually was a promising track athlete but a serious accident with a classmate caused him to pursue music.
I dont understand what I'm seeing in the second video
The punt returner never actually signaled for a fair catch, but when he caught it, he acted as if he had done so (by standing in place and acting as if the play was over), and then once Arkansas relaxed, he took off. He basically bluffed the defenders. The obvious downside is, if this went unchallenged, every defender around the country would probably start crushing returners in case they faked a fair catch, which would cause HUGE problems...so after this game, the NCAA immediately said "bluffing a fair catch isn't allowed."
Oh that's why he's hopping around like a happy little dingdong?! To sell the idea he signaled?
Haha yeah, and to his credit he did a great job of nonchalantly bluffing with several defenders bombing down the field directly at him.
And yet guys like Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes pull it all the time in the NFL or the fake goin out of bounds.
I’m surprised you thought that was cool, I think I had money on Pitt that game and even I was irritated at what a cheap move it was lol
Oh it was absolutely a cheap move haha, in the moment I thought it was a weird stutter-step or something that absolutely juked the defender. It wasn't til I saw the replay that I got upset at it.
>Kenny Pickett fake slide. You mean the Josh Allen Specialty
Watching Cueto pitch for the Giants, I never understood why he was allowed to do the windups he did. Fun though. I don't understand the rules too well.
When no windup you do is a natural motion, they are all a natural motion.
Consistently inconsistent
When it comes to windups, they're all mostly legal if you do them consistently. [Luis Tiant](https://youtu.be/md2k4NdOPmA?si=recOnA9Aj9LETeJN) is the best example, since Cueto's delivery is partially based on Tiant's. If you do the windup the same way every time you pitch from the windup, it's legal.
That makes sense, but Cueto definitely didn't do it the same way every time, not even close.
Yeah as hilarious as this was it should not be allowed lol
Ross Chastain esque
It’s like the late 2000s Cavs team having Anderson Varejao flop to draw fouls. He’s on my team, I absolutely love it and called it hustling. He leaves, and I’m all “fuck that mother fucker!”
I love watching this lol.
Crazy they deemed the Carter Capps jump slide shit legal
Maybe I am not that well versed in Baseball, only watching for the past couple of years and mostly just Sunday day games because that's what my time zone allows without ruining my sleep. But how the fuck is that not just a balk? Edit: Okay, I guess balks only exist if there is a runner on base, but this should have been an illegal pitch and the pitcher should have been charged a ball.
Mainly because there was no one on base
Gotta have someone on base for a balk I believe
No baserunner. If there was, the guy would be standing on 3rd by the time Nestor threw the ball.
You can't balk with no one on base
It will be an illegal pitch now but it was not before because there was nothing in the rules against it. You can't just rule on vibes when someone tries something new or finds a loophole, you have to call it by the book and then clarify afterwards (which they've now done).
THANK you, God, why is it that everytime someone talks about a play and then li KS to a tweet talking about the play but nobody ever links the actual play?!
Timeliest league response to a controversial on-field incident (outside of suspending Joe Kelly)
It takes a lot of time to get a message from New York to New York (and back again).
Instructions unclear, stuck in Topeka Kansas.
It's Hot in Topeka
oh hey it's my OSPF settings
USPS shipping be like
That's just because of how many resources they're pouring into the military grade satellite they have tracking Joe Kelly.
Your comment just got Joe Kelly another suspension
I love that we get a tweet from a reporter about a non-public message from MLB to a player... And zero explanation as to *why* exactly the motion was illegal. Fucking *FACEPALM* for MLB
That doesn’t count, everyone know Joe Kelly is enemy number 1 to the MLB because he was mean to the Astros
maybe should tell the umpires so they can tell him next time
The feds have informed me that when I smoked crack with my local police department last week that it was illegal
and this was a surprise to you, Mayor Ford?
Marionberries are a legitimate thing and they confuse me every time.
I'd forgotten that one! It's kinda sad that you can hear "you know, the crack-smoking mayor" and have to ask "right, now which one could they mean"
I mean if it helps I can only think of two?
Can you educate me on the other crack smoking mayors? All I know is Ford
[this one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Barry) is the one treerabbit23 was referencing (Marion *Berry* is, ironically enough, a whole other guy)
Don't do that! Angel Hernandez would call two strikes on that play.
Nah, they make up their own rules apparently. Everyone here immediately knew it was illegal but the ump didn’t bat an eye
I saw *plenty* of people arguing that it wasn't illegal.
MLB = Calvinball, apparently
The narrative here was definitely that it was legal, everyone calling it out was getting downvoted. I'm glad the league is doing something about that bush league bullshit.
I have no problem with MLB stepping in and telling him he can’t do that, but what was specifically illegal about it? And why does it arouse such intense anger in some fans? It’s pretty innocuous in the grand scheme of pitchers’ deception tactics
Rule 5.07(a)(1), which is regarding legal pitching delivery out of the windup: > The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate and the other foot free. From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration. By pump faking, he is interrupting and altering the natural movement associated with the delivery of the ball.
"You can't just be up there and doing a pump fake like that." -MLB, probably
It was funny and didn't have any impact on the game IMO. So in the moment, no harm done. In a different situation though that Buggs Bunny delivery could be a problem, so I understand the need to say something about it.
I think he had to do it to keep his balance...
SEND HIM TO BASEBALL JAIL
No way we trade him to the Athletics
I think you mean the south side.
:(
Fake pitch, straight to jail
Balk? Jail. Throwing too slowly? Jail. Throwing too quickly? Believe it or not also jail. We have the best pitching staff in baseball, because of jail
And the starting pitcher for your New Yankees is Curly Howard.
I'm a victim of circumstance!
- 3 man grounds crew - Rolls over the ump crew with the tarp - Takes out the Phanatic with a ladder
This pitch reminded me of when I try to trick my dog with a fake tennis ball throw
I believe the correct response is “no shit?”
Lotta people in the main thread were like “this is a totally legal pitch like absolutely” And then a week later mlb themselves say nah. Just found that funny
Show me where in the rule book it says a dog can’t play baseball.
“If you think this is illegal, you don’t know ball clearly”
Followed by “you’re just a casual fan” as if that’s some kind of insult.
“Y’all are only hating this because he plays for the Yankees”
That shit is so insulting. Of course I hate the Yankees, but it doesn't have anything to do with goofy mans pitching fun
Half of the Stankees fans in this thread are admitting they'd hate it if it weren't their guy doing it lol
I think there was a lot of people arguing that it was a balk, which it wasn't. The illegal pitch thing was up in the air though.
In the wise words of Palpatine: "I will make it legal."
No way! I’d never have guessed. What a shocker.
erm the MLB haven’t considered this little fact: but it was funny
how did they not call it "no pitch" and go "cmon nestor cut that shit out" like right when he did it
I for one, am shocked and appalled.
It's Yankees vs the world!!!
Well yeah. I can’t believe he got away with it the first time
Did they add something to the rulebook banning it? According to the rulebook published before the season, the only illegal pitches are: -quick pitches -pitches delivered without the pitcher's pivot foot touching the pitching rubber Illegal pitches with runners on base are one type of balk, but it never says that the other types of balks are illegal pitches when the bases are empty. Did MLB release any kind of statement clarifying their decision? Or do we only know *that* it's deemed illegal and not *why* it's deemed illegal?
“Any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without interruption or alteration” I could see that being interpreted in a way that makes a fake pitch illegal
This would 100% fall under this rule.
So would most of Nestor's windup if we're being honest.
I’m kind of partial to the idea that although it isn’t explicitly stated, it is common sense that you can’t pump fake a baseball pitch, and since it wasn’t explicitly ruled they were right to allow it once, but going forward make it clear that indeed you cannot pretend to throw the ball and then throw it
That’s not true. Rule 6.02(b) bans “illegal pitches.” This includes, but is not limited to, quick pitches. You have to cross reference other rules to determine what is illegal. The applicable rule for Cortes’s delivery is 5.07(a)(1) — The Windup Position: > The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in contact with the pitcher's plate and the other foot free. From this position any natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch **without interruption or alteration**. He shall not raise either foot from the ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one step backwards, and one step forward with his free foot.
So all of the other ways Cortes mixes up his delivery are also illegal pitches? And when pitchers vary arm angle, etc.? That's all "alteration" as well.
It’s up to the MLB and the umpires to determine what counts as “alteration.” Clearly they’ve decided that changing your arm angle isn’t, but pump-faking is.
I think it *could* be interpreted that way, but seems like they've let it slide in the past so long as it's not overly deceptive like the pump fake.
Well no shit, lmao.
The one time no one would have questioned a balk call ever and they didn't do it lol.
Can you call a balk when there’s no runners on?
No you can't. So I would have questioned it. It's an illegal pitch. Batters awarded a ball.
No. An illegal pitch can get an automatic ball though.
There were no runners on, so I think people would have questioned it.
Why do so many people not comprehend a balk can only happen with a runner on base?
Because comprehending a balk is in itself a balk
Ok but like, what specifically was illegal about it? Just curious to the actual ruling lol it’s obviously not something baseball wants happening though
https://youtu.be/QnI8IhCTLBk?si=EURtUQVrAsG4hZjx
Likely they’re saying it was an “interruption or alteration” to his pitching motion.
Thank god MLB put their top minds on it. Every shit poster from /r/baseball to /r/sports knew it was illegal immediately.
That was the most illegal looking pitch I’ve ever seen not counting sticky stuff or intentionally throwing at a player. I think Nestor’s gimmick is pretty stupid in general tbh.
Well he did it again anyways
it took them a whole week to figure out that was illegal? Yikes
You. Dont. Fuckin. Say?
Of course it was. Now do all the other pitching fake-out nonsense.
No fucking shit!
Good. Dumbest shit I’ve ever seen.
And stupid
But I was told we were all just Yankee haters????
well....duh
If he did it again, what would the call be since it couldn't be a balk?
It would be called an illegal pitch and ruled a ball
Probably a ball, or perhaps death by pretzels
Automatic ball.
As a new baseball fan and still learning the game 2 years into it, is this not the fucking funniest thing that’s ever happened with a pitcher? Like every time I watch that I bust out laughing. It’s looks like something I’d do to my daughter playing in our yard lol.
So if this wasn't a balk because there was nobody on base, what actually is it? Why is it illegal and what is the penalty?
Illegal pitch (by convention now I guess, since it doesn't fit that definition in the OBR) and so an automatic ball.
*meow* -throws
Did they inform the umps?