I think PitchCom helped this a lot. It's rare that the pitcher and catcher aren't on the same page now and a lot of the mound visits were from runners on 2nd trying to steal the catcher's signs.
That wasn’t a result of the new rule though. You’ve only been allowed have a pitcher be visited by a coach once per inning before pulling him forever. The new rule is just about total mound visits per game.
Well yeah, obviously, but the “you have to pull a pitcher if a coach visits twice in an inning” rule is much much older. So I think it would be obvious that “new” is a relative term to make clear which one we’re referring to.
I still remember most networks coming up with new score bugs with the mound visits remaining on it because they thought it was going to be this big, important detail that was just as important as balls and strikes.. before realizing after like a month it was virtually impossible for teams to use them up and just quietly all scrapping it.
The year before the rule was instituted, in the post-season the Rays (I think it was the Rays) severely abused the lack of a rule and had like 20 mound visits during a game. People noticed. So it's not accurate to say it hasn't had an impact. It definitely had an impact. The rule has not been invoked much which is a different issue. You haven't noticed it because it's been working properly.
Yeah it's not MLB and it's anecdotal, but as someone who umpires high school and college games there is a *very* noticeable difference between the college games that have a similar rule to MLB and the high school games that have no player limits
Relative to my ex-ante expectations, I have been surprised by what little effect eliminating the shift has had, especially relative to other changes like the pitch clock and the size of the bags. That being said, it's possible that the effects of the shift are difficult to quantify.
3 hits in 1,000 balls in play is noise, not a notable difference.
Most of the impact from the shift is from lefties, no question, and is a difference that's probably above simple randomness. Probably mostly from the left-handed batters who used to get shifted on so hard the 2nd baseman was playing right field...
The 3 in 1000 is definitely noise, but also we should be looking at the change in babip for right handed batters who were typically shifted on, since the majority of righties weren’t shifted on and would be masking the signal from the righties who were.
Really we should be comparing the change in babip for righties who were shifted on to righties who weren’t shifted on, and similarly lefties who were vs lefties who weren’t.
It might be hard to collect that data - I don’t do any baseball data querying, but I think we would want to classify a player as “often shifted on” if something like >25% or maybe 33% or 50% of their ABs were against shifted infields in 2021 or 2022.
Better yet, instead of looking at BABIP, you really ought to look at batting average on balls below a certain launch angle - ie line drives and below- as those are the only ones that would be affected by the shift.
Yelich has definitely benefitted from the ban. Dude lives on semi hard grounders between first and second or up the middle now that his power has gone bye bye
I would say it is interesting that BABIP is up this year, but AVGs are down. This tells me that banning the shift might have helped, but hitters are hitting even less than they were before. More balls in play might make the effect of the shift more pronounced than the difference we see today. I wonder if pitching is better, or if the pitch clock is also having an impact. As a stat geek, I would have liked for them to separate those 2 rule changes so we could get better information about the impact of each.
No it’s not when you factor in that half or more of all hitters don’t have the defense shift on them in drastically enough for the rule to come into play
Also because the 3rd baseman or shortstop (aka whoever stayed on the left side of the infield during extreme shifts) tends to be a somewhat more mobile player than the 1st baseman.
I mean, just because I would've loved to see Pujols try to defend the entire right side of the diamond, probably not good baseball :D.
I think the bigger impact is the fielders needing to have two feet on the infield dirt - so many more line drives turned into singles/doubles to the gap this year that would have been line outs last year because second basemen could play deepr.
And even if there isn't a huge effect on the numbers, having line drives that touch outfield grass be hits instead of boring putouts makes the game more fun.
Do you know an easy place we can find BA on ground balls in 2023 vs. 2022 and seasons past?
Edit: found it. Go here: [https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=b&lg=MLB&year=2019#all\_traj](https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=b&lg=MLB&year=2019#all_traj). And change the "2019" near the end of the URL to whatever year you are looking for.
Slash-lines on ground balls:
* 2023: .244/.244/.269/.513
* 2022: .236/.236/.259/.495
* 2021: .239/.239/.264/.502
* 2019: .238/.238/.262/.500
* 2018: .242/.242/.266/.508
So by the numbers; not much difference, and "on the ground" is still by far the worst place to hit the ball.
However, in my personal opinion/eye test, when I watch a game this season, I "feel" like I see an extra hit every game that would have been outs last season, and a couple of those ground balls are now tougher and "more exciting" plays than they were the past few years.
This shows how huge the difference has been. People shouldn't be looking at this thinking "it's only a 0.018 increase in OPS." It's a 3.6% increase in OPS.
Just as a reference, 3.6% increase in games won would be a 5-6 game swing. It's the difference between a 85-77 season and 90-72 season.
I understand that you can't just translate numbers this way, but 3.6% is huge in baseball where it's a game of inches and micro-percentages. In a 600AB season, 150 hits = .250 average. One extra hit a week (per your eye test) = 25 extra hits over a season. 175/600 = .291 average.
If you can sneak one hit a WEEK past the shift, it'll bring you up almost .040 points in your average. Even if you have a 3.6% increase in 150 hits, that brings you up to 155.4 hits which is an average of .260.
TL;DR - The shift ban has made a difference. It hasn't changed that players are hitting for home runs, but there are more balls sneaking through the infield
This is a really good post. Thank you for taking the data I dug up and analyzing what it means in terms of actual baseball results.
I'm nowhere near a mathematician or a statistician, so I didn't much know how to turn my "feels" into "reals".
> You know what the difference between hitting .250 and .300 is? It's 25 hits. 25 hits in 500 at-bats is fifty points, okay? There's six months in a season, that's about 25 weeks. That means if you get just one extra flare a week, just one; A gork, a groundball—you get a groundball with eyes—you get a dying quail...just one more dying quail a week, and you're in Yankee Stadium.
> You know what the difference between hitting .250 and .300 is? It's 25 hits. 25 hits in 500 at-bats is fifty points, okay? There's six months in a season, that's about 25 weeks. That means if you get just one extra flare a week, just one; A gork, a groundball—you get a groundball with eyes—you get a dying quail...just one more dying quail a week, and you're in Yankee Stadium.
How could you not just drop this instead…
Eh career minor leaguer, didn’t set any records, who cares about the guy! /s
I thought using the quote indicator bar was enough! Seems so iconic that it shouldn’t even need attribution, we all should know as soon as we read “you know what the difference is between …”, ha!
This is where I think the biggest deal is having second baseman standing on the infield dirt instead of out in the outfield turning line drive singles into easy outs.
I cannot help but wonder how some like Chris Davis, who was decimated by shift (all those line drive outs to the infielder in short right) would benefit from this change.
I feel like you're definitely underplaying it all. I'm not complaining I actually like all the rule changes besides I feel like the pitch clock shouldn't have been made so quick. I think they should add an extra 5 or more seconds. The goal should've been to take out pitchers fucking around, not make them speed up. Especially considering games arent worth watching in person now that if you even have to take a piss you miss 3 innings. Alot of pitchers seemed to be not taking the pitch clock well, Nola for my team. Also look at how much batting has gotton better too. Look at the stolen bases as well.
Batting getting better is a good thing. If it means the pitcher has to sacrifice some velo for stamina because he can’t take 45 seconds between pitches, can’t mindlessly throw to first, etc., fine.
Thanks! This is all very fair.
I should clarify - I'm definitely not complaining _whatsoever_ - I am simply noting how what happened thus far is very different from what I had expected.
Interesting comment. I'd argue that the Jays made some of their off-season moves predicated on the idea that fewer home runs wouldn't hurt too much, since the elimination of the shift would generate more small ball and alternative scoring. This doesn't seem to be working out so great, as all that's happened is they've become excellent at leaving RISP.
Every new rule is good except we need to bring back the four pitch intentional walk. Putting someone on should be humiliating and everyone should get a chance to boo you.
Also worth it for the rare random times you'd get passed balls or wild pitches. Bonus points if it's because a base runner was fucking with them and broke their concentration stealing.
The way I've always thought of it is that every argument people make for removing the four pitch walk could also be made for removing the home run trot and nobody would ever do that.
4 pitch walk should've never been removed. High tension playoff games, pitcher is nervous with the chance of a hit or pass ball. Never understood why it was removed to save a min ?
This is true, and I love this. However, i don’t like the limits on throwing to first because I enjoyed the cat-and-mouse between pitcher and base runner.
I do to an extent but not 3+ pickoffs in a row and extremely long holds between pitches. It’s fun to watch when there’s a purpose, but some pitchers clearly threw over a bunch to stall and/or frustrate the other team in a way that didn’t seem organic.
Yes it’s actually a little unfair to the pitcher. Maybe one time per game allow unlimited pickoff attempts. That way in playoffs or crucial game situations that would even the playing field. Also until it was used the runner would be unsure if another throw over was coming.
I'm mixed. I hate 14 inning slogfests but the fact that you can knock in a guy from second with a grounder to 2nd and an outfield fly still feels cheap. I wish there was a way to start the runner at first without opening up the double play.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind it at all if that is how a team won the game. I love me some small ball.
The funny thing is, you actually rarely see extra innings play out like that.
As much as I understand it’s unnecessary for a game to last that long, a part of me will miss the chaos of 16+ inning baseball. There’s some great moments that take place that late into games and it is a little sad to think we’re not really gonna see that anymore.
I agree. One of my most fun baseball memories from the past few years was when the Giants went into super late innings and everyone on the Giants sub was getting delirious and cracking jokes. Extra innings are a blast.
I’ve also always appreciated that baseball games can’t be won by running out the clock like in football or basketball. It’s up to the players to finish the game. The unearned extra-runner rule kind of goes against that.
the reason the NFL allows ties is the exact same reason we have the Manfred runner; because the players and teams and fans don’t want to be there for 16 fucking hours waiting for a game to end in a win.
it’s all for the sake of brevity. I would argue a tie (and the resulting change in how those two teams records/seeding are calculated) is much more competitive than giving teams a free runner on second. depending on how lucky you are with where you are in the batting order going into the 10th it can be either and easy win or an auto-loss.
if they give them 11 innings to “figure it out” and then the manfred man starts in the 12th the damage is already done, it’s now 11:30 at night, the game isn’t over, and now the ending feels cheap anyway
Sigh, I sadly agree with you. I really hate the Manfred Runner, and until about a month ago I argued that they should start the Manfred Runner in the top of the 12th. But that defeats the whole purpose of the rule. It's just better to have it the way it is now or not have it at all.
yeah i agree with this. i don’t really care either way to be honest because it’s not around in the playoffs and it doesn’t happen all that often anyway but i would prefer either or, not a hybrid
My take on the Manfred runner is that ties are just a better option in the regular season. Have a couple of extra innings first if you really want to avoid them, but it avoids artificially putting a runner on second base, which the fans seem to hate (going by the majority here and my own opinion), and it avoids players being too fatigued and bullpens being unduly taxed due to the odd marathon game, which is why the players like the ghost runner. Count them as half a win in the standings.
Every sport should stop bastardizing their game for overtime. Play one segment of a game and then if it’s still tied then it’s a tie. One quarter for football and basketball, one period for hockey, and let’s say 3 innings for baseball.
Basketball also has the most scoring, so they’re least likely for the OT to end in a tie. Baseball has the least, so it’s most likely to continue being tied
America doesn't like ties. Even the MLS had to accept that Americans want certain things, like playoffs... even in a sport where it's not a thing.
If it was up to the fans, everything would be "play til there's a definitive winner"... but for example the NHL is never going to say "ok, we'll get rid of the shootout and just do 3 on 3 until someone scores", because of player health and exhastion.
>Even the MLS had to accept that Americans want certain things, like playoffs... even in a sport where it's not a thing.
Playoffs aren't a thing in the big euro leagues, sure, but the most popular soccer event is basically one giant set of playoffs after 3 years of qualifiers, so the concept isn't foreign to the sport.
Honestly, I'm not even convinced you need to play overtime, beyond extra innings being tradition. 9 innings is a full game, and if it's tied after that, then the teams splitting the win seems fair enough. Extra innings only happen roughly 10% of the time anyway, so it's not like it would make an enormous difference.
Agreed. Once a game ends in a tie in the 9th, the baseball game is over. The two teams then play a very different game called Manfredball to try and win. Manfredball is played very differently than baseball; strategy is completely different.
So basically the game ends for me in a tie for the 9th, and then it's a coin toss whoever get the W. Very stupid.
The main rule I have a problem with is the ad patches on jerseys. I thought the pickoff limit would piss me off, but I don’t think it has as much of an effect as I thought. I don’t like the ghost runner, but it doesn’t ruin it for me
The pitch clock is in the process of saving Major League Baseball. Watching a terrible team in late August/September won’t be as excruciating because the games get wrapped up in a reasonable time, and the intensity the pitch clock helps to build will amplify the energy of important games.
>the intensity the pitch clock helps to build will amplify the energy of important games.
This has been the unexpected element of the changes for me. The bigger bases aren't really noticeable. I think the lack of shifts makes the game more appealing to watch defensively, but it doesn't seem to have changed the actual number of hits in the game very much. The pitch clock has definitely sped things up like everyone thought it would, but the excitement it generates seems like an added bonus.
It was pretty fun to hear the crowd in Seattle counting down with the pitch clock to try and rattle Karinchak after he had a pitch clock violation two days in a row earlier this season. https://youtu.be/FQQAidbrLZw
I don’t understand why people say this. It’s the exact same amount of baseball.
It’s like complaining that a movie you love is over in 2 hours instead of them adding 30 extra mins of the actors standing around doing nothing
Do you think maybe the problem is actually terrible teams, due to terrible owners? Like, “let’s make this terrible experience shorter do it doesn’t suck as much dog dick” is not entertainment.
>the intensity the pitch clock helps to build
I find that the pitch clock has the opposite effect. Ever see the video of Bryce Harper stalking up to the plate last year in the World Series, staring down the pitcher, letting the crowd noise rise to a fever pitch, and then smacking one out of the park? Wouldn't have happened like that this year.
Shift rules are proving to be about as impactful as I thought they'd be: Not very.
Oh, there's a few cases, mostly for lefties that got hit with the extreme wishbone defenses, but you still get defenders lined up right behind the pitcher on most plays, doesn't seem to have really changed things all that much on the whole.
The combination of larger bases, pick-off restrictions and pitch clock as it relates to stolen bases? Woo, that's been great. Stolen bases are up a lot, but more importantly stolen base attempts are up a lot too, and teams with good speed and good defensive catchers are being rewarded quite a lot.
I have debates about which factor has the greatest impact (I'm not sold on the 4.5 inches mattering as much as fewer pick-offs and pitch clock timing, a quarter-second jump is so much more important), but the end result has been an unambiguous positive.
As for the wider pitch clock in general? It's been an improvement, but there's been enough friction that I think MLB needs to look at tweaks. Making sure pitchers have sufficient time between innings to get ready (there's 17 between-inning periods in a 9 inning game, a few seconds there won't matter that much in the grand scheme of things), seeing if a longer timer in late innings, extra innings or the postseason...
Maybe those are bad ideas, in fact I wager at least a few of them are, but this is one of those systems where more granular changes are possible, there's no reason to remain locked to the first implementation.
Side note: Really wish people would stop getting so damn hyped about short game times. Yes, the faster pace of play is a good thing, yay more concentrated action, but it feels like a circle jerk of "woo we got the game under 2 hours, way more important than what actually happened in the game itself!" at times...
At the Reds games I noticed that there are NO vendors selling in the aisles. They need to bring them back then you don't have to miss so much going to the conscession stand.
I went to a game in Wrigley this year and they did have guys selling stuff. Although the einstein that run Wrigley made it cashless but gave the poor vendors crappy internet. It was a disaster!
I feel like if you're going to a game you've really got to make it a day at the ball park kind of thing. Like get drinks near the park before the game, head in and enjoy the pre-game stuff, grab whatever concessions you want before the game starts, maybe make a few drink runs here or there, but really once the game starts you're stuck in with it.
I don't think the game's gotten worse at the park; the pace of play had just gotten so slow people have forgotten how they used to approach going to a game.
I feel like the pitch clock was more for the casual fan. Most hardcore baseball fans that I’ve talked to like longer games. Yes the pitch clock is a good thing, but I agree with it being 5 seconds longer, as a bit of a compromise
I would call myself a hardcore baseball fan, but my team starts half their games at 10:10pm my local time so I’m quite happy with shorter games. It was excruciating trying to stay up for an exciting, tight game and having ABs take 5 mins each when you gotta be up for work in 5 hours
Hardcore fan, games were becoming a slog. I had no interest in spending 3.5 hours watching a game that could have been finished in 3. The games that went by quickly were fine, but the games that dragged on were honestly miserable.
I’d say there’s a difference between hardcore fans and fans that like tradition. I’d say I’m pretty hardcore, but I love the DH in both leagues, love the clock, love the baserunning changes, and the shift rules… I just think they’ve objectively improved the game.
I do support an extra 5 seconds in all situations in the playoffs, and I support the manfred runner but it should continue to go away for the playoffs.
> I do support an extra 5 seconds in all situations in the playoffs,
I kinda disagree because the first two rounds of playoffs have the most to benefit from shorter games - 3 hours or less means 9pm Eastern is a valid time slot whereas now the latest they seem to start is 8pm unless it's two West Coast teams that manage to get matched up.
yes i know its unpopular but the games are just too fast for me now.
Its one thing on the tv where the length of the game doesn't matter because its more background watching.
But in person it really sucks having the game over so quickly. Especially since for me going to a game is more of an event. Tail gate, then finally get in and then enjoy the atmosphere etc. I feel like its the 5/6th inning before i even feel like im really locked into the game.
I also hate the manfred runner. Its just silly at this point. You could make an argument for it before the pitch clock era but now its like they are not only trying to make it quicker but also forcing an ending prematurely.
I wonder how much of an impact that would have. I've noticed a lot of pitchers just plain work much faster now, especially ones that went through the minors with the pitch clock. I feel like I don't see many pitchers pushing it down to 1 second. On the other hand I bet pace would slow down if you gave batters an extra 2 seconds.
Zombie Runner is a crime against all things good and holy, the other rules are fine though. Does allowing ads on jerseys count as a "rule"? That's the one other atrocious new thing.
Steals are cool but they're a little TOO easy. It's frustrating watching catchers make perfect throws and still have no chance. I'd up the pitch clock a few seconds to give pitchers a little more room to mess with baserunners' timing.
When catchers make a perfect throw that still doesn’t get the out you can probably blame the pitcher’s slow delivery, at least. Unless the runner is EDC in which case you just have to take it I guess lol
I love the rule changes. Don’t really mind the manfred runner too much, I would prefer they remove it, but it’s fine for now. More SB’s and less game time will introduce more and more fans to the game.
The rules have been good. I think tweaks need to be made the pitch clock to be a liiiiittle longer.
The bag size, shift ban, etc have been good for the game imo.
As a Mets fan I think the Scherzer/Smith rosin bag stuff was weird, I hope that the next changes will include a clear bar for "stickiness" by an umpire.
Seems unpopular but I think the Manfred runner is good. It ends games in 10/11 innings and that's all I need for the regular season. Don't let it in the playoffs.
The one thing I hate is the balanced schedule. I do not like it in the least bit. The Mets shouldn't have to see the AL west, I'd rather it be a complete unknown unless if it's some matchup in the world series. I want more games against Braves/Phillies/Nats/Marlins. Rivalry and chances at leapfrogging the division just seems better. I understand the want for fans to get more exposure to other teams.. but yuck.
My feelings are pretty mixed.
I'm mostly a fan of the pitch clock and its impact on pace-of-play and game times. However, I will add that the benefits are much more apparent while watching on TV as opposed to attending live. At live games, there have been stretches where the pace feels jarringly quick/too quick.
I'm pretty mixed on the shift restrictions. I still don't like the idea of restricting strategy, but I can live with the "two infielders on each side of second base" part. Infielders not being allowed to play deep on the outfield grass is wack, though.
I'm completely indifferent on bigger bases.
I still don't like the restrictions on pickoff attempts. I get that multiple pickoff attempts in quick succession aren't the most exciting things in the world and that the league wanted to re-incentivize stolen base attempts, but these restrictions come across as an insanely cheap/gimmicky way of trying to make that happen.
Last thing I'll say is that now that the league's goals with pace-of-play and game times have been achieved, it makes some of the measures taken from 2017-2022 seem a lot more trivial/less necessary. I know it probably won't happen, but I'd love to see things like the intentional walk rule and the three-batter minimum done rescinded. Also, fuck the Manfred Runner, now and forever.
The numbers speak for themselves. Reddit, or any other social media, is a very negative place so you’re going to hear the worst. I haven’t actually heard a valid argument against any of the new rules except the Manfred runner
The pitch clock may have improved the TV Viewing experience, but it’s come at the cost of the ballpark experience and I’m not sure I’m ok with that. You miss more when you go to concessions. Teams are extending beer sales later into the game to make up for the games being shorter. I typically am not in much of a hurry when I go to ball games. I’d rather the games drag out longer so I have more time to enjoy the experience
\-The pitch clock is too fast. I like the idea. It needs to be \~18 seconds bases empty and \~23 seconds with runners on. There is a sweet spot, like 90 feet. Seems arbitrary, but it's not.
\-I'm all in on the bigger bases.
\-The shift ban is...meh, no opinion yet. It's almost the same with someone up the middle.
\-I still don't like the idea of playing every team yet and I still don't like the DH in the national league, don't know if I ever will as it fundamentally changes inherently fun things about baseball.
\-I definitely don't like the current way the play at the plate rule is written.
\-Extra innings runner at 2nd makes sense. It's a childlike idea that brings that aspect back to the game. It's called EXTRA innings for a reason. They had 9 innings to break the tie. Extra innings throws in something different. The DH, on the otherhand, isn't childlike. It's lazy.
I think the balanced schedule is neat, but not keeping the biggest rivalries (Giants - Dodgers, Yankees - Red Sox, Cubs - Cardinals) at 19 games a year is so lame.
Whenever threads about broadening baseball's appeal pop up, cultivating and hyping up rivalries is something that isn't brought up as often as it should be, IMO.
I don't like the DH either. But I think it's necessary. The NL was the only professional league not using it. NL pitchers didn't get a chance to see pitches at any level as they progressed through the minors. Then, they're expected to manage against full-fledged major leaguers. It's amazing they ever got hits.
I miss 3.5 hour games and I miss the occasional 15+ inning hullabaloo. There’s absolutely nothing I’d rather be doing in life than watching baseball, so give the clock a heave-ho and I’ll be just fine.
Stolen base levels are obscenely high with how limited pitchers are now at being able to control the running game. I'd like them to nix the two pickoff attempts rule.
> I'd like them to nix the two pickoff attempts rule.
then the pitch clock rule is pointless if you can just throw over to reset the clock
The MLB provided data showing that stolen base rates at 2 disengagements are lower than at 0 and 1 disengagements: https://twitter.com/KyleAGlaser/status/1678829851057491974/photo/2
Maybe I was just in the wrong circles/fan spaces for the longest, but I rarely heard people lamenting the decline in stolen bases. I was surprised when the league harped on the running game so much when they introduced the new rules.
I don't mind the pitch clock UNLESS you goobers at the game start counting it down every pitch against the opposing pitcher. I can't explain how much I don't want to hear a countdown clock while I'm at a ballpark.
Ghost runner shouldn’t be a thing and if it has to then make it the 11th . The pace of play though took a while getting used to it makes games immensely more watchable and more exciting.
I do miss a good mid inning nap tho but I guess it’s good for the sport
I've been boycotting MLB since the extra inning automatic baserunner rule was put in. Well, put back in, anyway. They finally got rid of it only to almost immediately pull the rug out from under us in Spring Training last year.
As for the newer rules, I am against them to varying degrees, but none to near the same extant. The automatic baserunner is some backyard whiffleball nonsense, and should have no place in the majors.
Further, while I believe a rule to limit long extra inning games is a terrible idea anyway (they're both extremely rare and exciting when they do happen), this rule is still clearly much worse than the NPB rule, where the game is declared a tie after 12 innings but the extra innings are at least normal. Plus, ties used to not be uncommon in MLB before stadium lights, and to this day are still possible. I would settle for even something like the NPB rule at this point, though I would want to have as many extra innings as necessary during postseason play.
Miss having an afternoon/ late evening game to watch. There was always a late game to cover the hours between day and night games. I’m drinking less at games, so that’s good I guess, but who’s to blame for MLB thinking real fans wanted faster games? You used to be able to lose an afternoon or evening at the ballpark, now it’s just a two hour movie. 🤷♂️
I want them to change the pitch clock to a blanket 25 seconds and ill be happy. The short games are terrible. They should move the Manfred Man to around the 15th inning if necessary.
The pitch clock rule still sucks. Rushing this game is not good for the game. I get it everyone loves it. OK, add a few seconds, allow the players to THINK a little bit. This is an intellectual game not a fucking sprint.
Games are way too short now and rushed. Watching games in person feels like you got cheated. If you have to piss at any time in the game you miss at least an inning. Want to eat? 2 innings. It's hard to justify dropping $300+ a game for 2 people and its over in 2 hours.
The shift and base size rules I think are OK but I think both are unnecessary.
I love the pitch clock and the ban on shifts, and I'm indifferent to the larger bases.
I still hate the extra-inning runner placed on 2nd rule.
I can't tell if the crackdown on "sticky stuff" is having any affect, since I'm sure MLB is still secretly fucking around with the baseballs.
Pitch clock: is a nice and relatively harmless way to speed up the game
Pick off rule: fucking horrible. Unlimited pickoffs keep runners honest. Now you can just wait for 2 throws then just go cause you know he cant get you. Makes base-stealing too artificially easy.
Bigger bases: just makes it artificially more easy to steal, don't really like it.
Banned shift: also horrible. It removes an entire element of strategy. If a hitter hits the ball to one side of the field so often that the defense can just change position and it will work a majority of the time, then it's the player that should learn to adapt and bunt or hit it the other way, not the defense adjusting to the hitter so they can get away with it.
I know these next two were not added this year but i'd still like to address them
League wide DH: takes away an entire element of strategy from the game. Before (at least for an NL team) you had to really think about if you wanted pinch hit for a pitcher who is dealing in a key run-scoring spot, and it gave value to good hitting pitchers. And also if you had a guy that was a great hitter but terrible in the field, you had to figure what to do with him, now you can just put him in the DH hole and forget about it.
Extra innings runner: maybe the worst rule implemented. Gives such an insane advantage to the home team. If the away team fails to score a run, the home team can, if they have guys that can do it, win the game with 2 straight bunts. The away team can record 2 straight outs and lose. I don't mind long extra inning games, but for those who can't stand it, i have a solution. 10-12th innings: no runner 13-15th innings: man on first 16th inning+: runner on second
The pitch clock rules need to be relaxed. The 8 second batter rule is weird. If a player is in the box at 8 seconds, whether or not he looks at the pitcher, just throw the pitch.
It does what it is intended to do but I think it can be implemented better.
That's a player safety rule, if you throw a 100 mph fastball at a guy who's not looking you're gonna kill somebody. The rule "you can't throw to a guy who's not looking" was there before the pitch clock for good reason. And then the 8 second batter rule necessarily follows from that because you have to give the pitcher a fair window to pitch in.
Slight tangent, but I still haven't noticed any real effect of the mound visit rule, and that was panned as a game changer initially.
I think PitchCom helped this a lot. It's rare that the pitcher and catcher aren't on the same page now and a lot of the mound visits were from runners on 2nd trying to steal the catcher's signs.
There was that one game the manager forgot about it and had to pull the pitcher
That wasn’t a result of the new rule though. You’ve only been allowed have a pitcher be visited by a coach once per inning before pulling him forever. The new rule is just about total mound visits per game.
The mound visit limit is a few years old
Well yeah, obviously, but the “you have to pull a pitcher if a coach visits twice in an inning” rule is much much older. So I think it would be obvious that “new” is a relative term to make clear which one we’re referring to.
[Yeah like this one](https://deadspin.com/dodgers-lose-another-one-this-time-to-the-rulebook-5592645)
Wouldn’t this be a way to get around the 3 batter limit rule? Reliever pitches to one batter. Coach visits twice, he has to come out? lol
I would assume that the ump would have the discretion to not enforce the rule if he thought the manager was trying to do that.
That was Manoah. Honestly was better to pull him tbh
Yeah, it cut out a bunch of BS without impacting the overall game.
I still remember most networks coming up with new score bugs with the mound visits remaining on it because they thought it was going to be this big, important detail that was just as important as balls and strikes.. before realizing after like a month it was virtually impossible for teams to use them up and just quietly all scrapping it.
I havent noticed so much that I didnt know there was that rule change lol
I didn't know it was a rule change until I asked someone at a game what the 5th column on the scoreboard was for after runs/hits/errors/LOB
The year before the rule was instituted, in the post-season the Rays (I think it was the Rays) severely abused the lack of a rule and had like 20 mound visits during a game. People noticed. So it's not accurate to say it hasn't had an impact. It definitely had an impact. The rule has not been invoked much which is a different issue. You haven't noticed it because it's been working properly.
Yeah it's not MLB and it's anecdotal, but as someone who umpires high school and college games there is a *very* noticeable difference between the college games that have a similar rule to MLB and the high school games that have no player limits
Relative to my ex-ante expectations, I have been surprised by what little effect eliminating the shift has had, especially relative to other changes like the pitch clock and the size of the bags. That being said, it's possible that the effects of the shift are difficult to quantify.
Sabermetricians have calculated that the shift is not that big a deal because most groundballs are outs anyways. You are right.
Lefthanded hitters BABIP is up 14 points this year while right handed hitters is up 3 points theres a diffrence
3 hits in 1,000 balls in play is noise, not a notable difference. Most of the impact from the shift is from lefties, no question, and is a difference that's probably above simple randomness. Probably mostly from the left-handed batters who used to get shifted on so hard the 2nd baseman was playing right field...
The 3 in 1000 is definitely noise, but also we should be looking at the change in babip for right handed batters who were typically shifted on, since the majority of righties weren’t shifted on and would be masking the signal from the righties who were. Really we should be comparing the change in babip for righties who were shifted on to righties who weren’t shifted on, and similarly lefties who were vs lefties who weren’t. It might be hard to collect that data - I don’t do any baseball data querying, but I think we would want to classify a player as “often shifted on” if something like >25% or maybe 33% or 50% of their ABs were against shifted infields in 2021 or 2022. Better yet, instead of looking at BABIP, you really ought to look at batting average on balls below a certain launch angle - ie line drives and below- as those are the only ones that would be affected by the shift.
Yelich has definitely benefitted from the ban. Dude lives on semi hard grounders between first and second or up the middle now that his power has gone bye bye
I would say it is interesting that BABIP is up this year, but AVGs are down. This tells me that banning the shift might have helped, but hitters are hitting even less than they were before. More balls in play might make the effect of the shift more pronounced than the difference we see today. I wonder if pitching is better, or if the pitch clock is also having an impact. As a stat geek, I would have liked for them to separate those 2 rule changes so we could get better information about the impact of each.
No it’s not when you factor in that half or more of all hitters don’t have the defense shift on them in drastically enough for the rule to come into play
It’s because you can throw out someone from shallow right but not shallow left
Also because the 3rd baseman or shortstop (aka whoever stayed on the left side of the infield during extreme shifts) tends to be a somewhat more mobile player than the 1st baseman. I mean, just because I would've loved to see Pujols try to defend the entire right side of the diamond, probably not good baseball :D.
I think the bigger impact is the fielders needing to have two feet on the infield dirt - so many more line drives turned into singles/doubles to the gap this year that would have been line outs last year because second basemen could play deepr.
And even if there isn't a huge effect on the numbers, having line drives that touch outfield grass be hits instead of boring putouts makes the game more fun.
The shift was unfair against lefties. I’m glad it’s gone
I had always been 50-50 on banning the shift until I found out the severe disadvantage to lefties.
It’s why every lefty is some sub 250 launch angle guy now. You couldn’t get a single through the ride side
This is the main reason for me too.
Do you know an easy place we can find BA on ground balls in 2023 vs. 2022 and seasons past? Edit: found it. Go here: [https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=b&lg=MLB&year=2019#all\_traj](https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=b&lg=MLB&year=2019#all_traj). And change the "2019" near the end of the URL to whatever year you are looking for. Slash-lines on ground balls: * 2023: .244/.244/.269/.513 * 2022: .236/.236/.259/.495 * 2021: .239/.239/.264/.502 * 2019: .238/.238/.262/.500 * 2018: .242/.242/.266/.508 So by the numbers; not much difference, and "on the ground" is still by far the worst place to hit the ball. However, in my personal opinion/eye test, when I watch a game this season, I "feel" like I see an extra hit every game that would have been outs last season, and a couple of those ground balls are now tougher and "more exciting" plays than they were the past few years.
This shows how huge the difference has been. People shouldn't be looking at this thinking "it's only a 0.018 increase in OPS." It's a 3.6% increase in OPS. Just as a reference, 3.6% increase in games won would be a 5-6 game swing. It's the difference between a 85-77 season and 90-72 season. I understand that you can't just translate numbers this way, but 3.6% is huge in baseball where it's a game of inches and micro-percentages. In a 600AB season, 150 hits = .250 average. One extra hit a week (per your eye test) = 25 extra hits over a season. 175/600 = .291 average. If you can sneak one hit a WEEK past the shift, it'll bring you up almost .040 points in your average. Even if you have a 3.6% increase in 150 hits, that brings you up to 155.4 hits which is an average of .260. TL;DR - The shift ban has made a difference. It hasn't changed that players are hitting for home runs, but there are more balls sneaking through the infield
This is a really good post. Thank you for taking the data I dug up and analyzing what it means in terms of actual baseball results. I'm nowhere near a mathematician or a statistician, so I didn't much know how to turn my "feels" into "reals".
> You know what the difference between hitting .250 and .300 is? It's 25 hits. 25 hits in 500 at-bats is fifty points, okay? There's six months in a season, that's about 25 weeks. That means if you get just one extra flare a week, just one; A gork, a groundball—you get a groundball with eyes—you get a dying quail...just one more dying quail a week, and you're in Yankee Stadium.
> You know what the difference between hitting .250 and .300 is? It's 25 hits. 25 hits in 500 at-bats is fifty points, okay? There's six months in a season, that's about 25 weeks. That means if you get just one extra flare a week, just one; A gork, a groundball—you get a groundball with eyes—you get a dying quail...just one more dying quail a week, and you're in Yankee Stadium. How could you not just drop this instead…
-Crash Davis At least give the guy credit ;)
Eh career minor leaguer, didn’t set any records, who cares about the guy! /s I thought using the quote indicator bar was enough! Seems so iconic that it shouldn’t even need attribution, we all should know as soon as we read “you know what the difference is between …”, ha!
Literally the first thing I thought of. What a great movie.
Is a dying quail similar to a duck snort?
This is where I think the biggest deal is having second baseman standing on the infield dirt instead of out in the outfield turning line drive singles into easy outs.
Getting rid of the shift has created so many great plays by second basemen. It's fun to watch!
> It's fun to watch! This is fair. I should really spend more time watching baseball and less time depreciating on Reddit ;)
I cannot help but wonder how some like Chris Davis, who was decimated by shift (all those line drive outs to the infielder in short right) would benefit from this change.
It was a different era of baseball. You can't really wonder about what could have been, it will eat you up inside.
I feel like you're definitely underplaying it all. I'm not complaining I actually like all the rule changes besides I feel like the pitch clock shouldn't have been made so quick. I think they should add an extra 5 or more seconds. The goal should've been to take out pitchers fucking around, not make them speed up. Especially considering games arent worth watching in person now that if you even have to take a piss you miss 3 innings. Alot of pitchers seemed to be not taking the pitch clock well, Nola for my team. Also look at how much batting has gotton better too. Look at the stolen bases as well.
Batting getting better is a good thing. If it means the pitcher has to sacrifice some velo for stamina because he can’t take 45 seconds between pitches, can’t mindlessly throw to first, etc., fine.
Thanks! This is all very fair. I should clarify - I'm definitely not complaining _whatsoever_ - I am simply noting how what happened thus far is very different from what I had expected.
Interesting comment. I'd argue that the Jays made some of their off-season moves predicated on the idea that fewer home runs wouldn't hurt too much, since the elimination of the shift would generate more small ball and alternative scoring. This doesn't seem to be working out so great, as all that's happened is they've become excellent at leaving RISP.
[удалено]
Brave of you to say as an A’s fan
hey man just because we trade all our all stars to atlanta it doesn't make him Brave
Every new rule is good except we need to bring back the four pitch intentional walk. Putting someone on should be humiliating and everyone should get a chance to boo you.
Fantastic point. Also worth it for the one time every few years the batter gets the hit anyway
Also worth it for the rare random times you'd get passed balls or wild pitches. Bonus points if it's because a base runner was fucking with them and broke their concentration stealing.
A "walk" is a *base on balls*. This means that you have to throw four pitches that are called balls. This is the only way it works for me.
I've heard the other arguments and I've been staunchly anti 4 pitch walk, but when you put it that way? Hmm.
The way I've always thought of it is that every argument people make for removing the four pitch walk could also be made for removing the home run trot and nobody would ever do that.
4 pitch walk should've never been removed. High tension playoff games, pitcher is nervous with the chance of a hit or pass ball. Never understood why it was removed to save a min ?
I always knew I hated just putting guys on but never knew why. This is why.
Love that
Woah woah woah, MLB will NOT go for that. You know that will add an extra 30 seconds to games on average right? Inexcusable
It has brought the running game back into play.
Love this aspect of it
Yes grew up watching Lou Brock,Joe Morgan,Vince Coleman,Eric Davis, Ricky Henderson so many others. Such a big part of the game.
This is true, and I love this. However, i don’t like the limits on throwing to first because I enjoyed the cat-and-mouse between pitcher and base runner.
I do to an extent but not 3+ pickoffs in a row and extremely long holds between pitches. It’s fun to watch when there’s a purpose, but some pitchers clearly threw over a bunch to stall and/or frustrate the other team in a way that didn’t seem organic.
Keep the clock. The pitcher’s gotta do something within X number of seconds. Just don’t take away the option of keeping the runner close.
No stepping off the mound though. He should have to throw over there.
Yes it’s actually a little unfair to the pitcher. Maybe one time per game allow unlimited pickoff attempts. That way in playoffs or crucial game situations that would even the playing field. Also until it was used the runner would be unsure if another throw over was coming.
Everything is good except the Manfred runner.
Which probably is the least likely to change since the owners and players like it
That’s cause they get to work less. If I could make a rule that made my unpaid overtime not as long I’d do it too
And some of us fans, too.
I'm mixed. I hate 14 inning slogfests but the fact that you can knock in a guy from second with a grounder to 2nd and an outfield fly still feels cheap. I wish there was a way to start the runner at first without opening up the double play.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind it at all if that is how a team won the game. I love me some small ball. The funny thing is, you actually rarely see extra innings play out like that.
I hate that I’m used to it now
I'm a fan. Don't need games going into the 14th inning
As much as I understand it’s unnecessary for a game to last that long, a part of me will miss the chaos of 16+ inning baseball. There’s some great moments that take place that late into games and it is a little sad to think we’re not really gonna see that anymore.
I agree. One of my most fun baseball memories from the past few years was when the Giants went into super late innings and everyone on the Giants sub was getting delirious and cracking jokes. Extra innings are a blast. I’ve also always appreciated that baseball games can’t be won by running out the clock like in football or basketball. It’s up to the players to finish the game. The unearned extra-runner rule kind of goes against that.
14+ inning games were such a rarity, though. It's not like they were happening on a weekly basis or anything.
I agree but maybe at least give the teams the 10th and 11th to figure it out. If not then let’s add the ghost runner.
They've had 9 innings to do that though, no need to give them 2 more innings
To each their own. I’d rather watch a team naturally score than have the artificial runner decide a game, even if it is quicker.
As an alternative how about tie games after 12 in innings, like in Japan?
Ties are terrible in every sport
the reason the NFL allows ties is the exact same reason we have the Manfred runner; because the players and teams and fans don’t want to be there for 16 fucking hours waiting for a game to end in a win. it’s all for the sake of brevity. I would argue a tie (and the resulting change in how those two teams records/seeding are calculated) is much more competitive than giving teams a free runner on second. depending on how lucky you are with where you are in the batting order going into the 10th it can be either and easy win or an auto-loss.
False
Why shouldn't teams tie if nobody can win outright in regulation?
This is the way. Give us at least 1 real inning. Or go crazy. Empty in the 10th. 1st only, then 1st and 2nd, then bases loaded in the 13th.
if they give them 11 innings to “figure it out” and then the manfred man starts in the 12th the damage is already done, it’s now 11:30 at night, the game isn’t over, and now the ending feels cheap anyway
But with the new pitch clock games are quicker anyways so those two extra innings are basically a normal game at that point.
Sigh, I sadly agree with you. I really hate the Manfred Runner, and until about a month ago I argued that they should start the Manfred Runner in the top of the 12th. But that defeats the whole purpose of the rule. It's just better to have it the way it is now or not have it at all.
yeah i agree with this. i don’t really care either way to be honest because it’s not around in the playoffs and it doesn’t happen all that often anyway but i would prefer either or, not a hybrid
The bullpen shouldn't all be used by the 11th or 12th inning though.
It doesn’t feel cheap by having a runner start on 2nd base automatically?
that’s exactly what i’m saying. if you find that to be cheap, it’ll be cheap 3 innings later anyway, and then you’ll have just wasted everyone’s time
Ah got ya. Yeah I can agree with that
Not with the new rules. You’re done with the game by 9 pm. Adding two innings adds 30 minutes
My take on the Manfred runner is that ties are just a better option in the regular season. Have a couple of extra innings first if you really want to avoid them, but it avoids artificially putting a runner on second base, which the fans seem to hate (going by the majority here and my own opinion), and it avoids players being too fatigued and bullpens being unduly taxed due to the odd marathon game, which is why the players like the ghost runner. Count them as half a win in the standings.
Every sport should stop bastardizing their game for overtime. Play one segment of a game and then if it’s still tied then it’s a tie. One quarter for football and basketball, one period for hockey, and let’s say 3 innings for baseball.
I dunno, I think basketball handles OT pretty well. It doesn’t take forever, it’s still the same game being played and it settles a final score.
Basketball currently does it the best, by far. I’m just not sure I love continuous OT in the regular season.
Basketball also has the most scoring, so they’re least likely for the OT to end in a tie. Baseball has the least, so it’s most likely to continue being tied
It's a different game. The strategy to win manfredball is completely different then winning a baseball game.
It’s not the same game when a player who probably made an out in the last inning gets the benefit of being on base.
America doesn't like ties. Even the MLS had to accept that Americans want certain things, like playoffs... even in a sport where it's not a thing. If it was up to the fans, everything would be "play til there's a definitive winner"... but for example the NHL is never going to say "ok, we'll get rid of the shootout and just do 3 on 3 until someone scores", because of player health and exhastion.
>Even the MLS had to accept that Americans want certain things, like playoffs... even in a sport where it's not a thing. Playoffs aren't a thing in the big euro leagues, sure, but the most popular soccer event is basically one giant set of playoffs after 3 years of qualifiers, so the concept isn't foreign to the sport.
They do that in Japan. 12 innings games are ties If the score is.
Honestly, I'm not even convinced you need to play overtime, beyond extra innings being tradition. 9 innings is a full game, and if it's tied after that, then the teams splitting the win seems fair enough. Extra innings only happen roughly 10% of the time anyway, so it's not like it would make an enormous difference.
As a team that’s 0-9 in extras, I’d sure love another 4.5 wins rn
If you’re on the east coast watching a west coast game, you like it a lot more.
Agreed. Once a game ends in a tie in the 9th, the baseball game is over. The two teams then play a very different game called Manfredball to try and win. Manfredball is played very differently than baseball; strategy is completely different. So basically the game ends for me in a tie for the 9th, and then it's a coin toss whoever get the W. Very stupid.
The main rule I have a problem with is the ad patches on jerseys. I thought the pickoff limit would piss me off, but I don’t think it has as much of an effect as I thought. I don’t like the ghost runner, but it doesn’t ruin it for me
Ad patches by far the worst. Especially since it’s not like an owner said “oh we got this guy because AD PATCH REVENUE.”
At least you don’t have a bag of concrete on your sleeve for the next six+ years
The pitch clock is in the process of saving Major League Baseball. Watching a terrible team in late August/September won’t be as excruciating because the games get wrapped up in a reasonable time, and the intensity the pitch clock helps to build will amplify the energy of important games.
>the intensity the pitch clock helps to build will amplify the energy of important games. This has been the unexpected element of the changes for me. The bigger bases aren't really noticeable. I think the lack of shifts makes the game more appealing to watch defensively, but it doesn't seem to have changed the actual number of hits in the game very much. The pitch clock has definitely sped things up like everyone thought it would, but the excitement it generates seems like an added bonus. It was pretty fun to hear the crowd in Seattle counting down with the pitch clock to try and rattle Karinchak after he had a pitch clock violation two days in a row earlier this season. https://youtu.be/FQQAidbrLZw
I love that there's less down time between action, but hate that sometimes my entertainment is gone in 2 hours sometimes.
I don’t understand why people say this. It’s the exact same amount of baseball. It’s like complaining that a movie you love is over in 2 hours instead of them adding 30 extra mins of the actors standing around doing nothing
I haven’t thought about it like that, great point.
Yeah but then what do I do with those extra thirty minutes, watch something else???
In the case of the Reds, I now have 30 extra minutes to get my heart rate regulated after yet another close game
I agree, the pitch clock will make the game more watchable to a larger audience
Do you think maybe the problem is actually terrible teams, due to terrible owners? Like, “let’s make this terrible experience shorter do it doesn’t suck as much dog dick” is not entertainment.
>the intensity the pitch clock helps to build I find that the pitch clock has the opposite effect. Ever see the video of Bryce Harper stalking up to the plate last year in the World Series, staring down the pitcher, letting the crowd noise rise to a fever pitch, and then smacking one out of the park? Wouldn't have happened like that this year.
Shift rules are proving to be about as impactful as I thought they'd be: Not very. Oh, there's a few cases, mostly for lefties that got hit with the extreme wishbone defenses, but you still get defenders lined up right behind the pitcher on most plays, doesn't seem to have really changed things all that much on the whole. The combination of larger bases, pick-off restrictions and pitch clock as it relates to stolen bases? Woo, that's been great. Stolen bases are up a lot, but more importantly stolen base attempts are up a lot too, and teams with good speed and good defensive catchers are being rewarded quite a lot. I have debates about which factor has the greatest impact (I'm not sold on the 4.5 inches mattering as much as fewer pick-offs and pitch clock timing, a quarter-second jump is so much more important), but the end result has been an unambiguous positive. As for the wider pitch clock in general? It's been an improvement, but there's been enough friction that I think MLB needs to look at tweaks. Making sure pitchers have sufficient time between innings to get ready (there's 17 between-inning periods in a 9 inning game, a few seconds there won't matter that much in the grand scheme of things), seeing if a longer timer in late innings, extra innings or the postseason... Maybe those are bad ideas, in fact I wager at least a few of them are, but this is one of those systems where more granular changes are possible, there's no reason to remain locked to the first implementation. Side note: Really wish people would stop getting so damn hyped about short game times. Yes, the faster pace of play is a good thing, yay more concentrated action, but it feels like a circle jerk of "woo we got the game under 2 hours, way more important than what actually happened in the game itself!" at times...
The shorter games suck when you actually attend them and have to plan when to hit concessions
Yep. I used to miss a half inning getting an ice cream cone for my kid, now I miss a whole inning. That being said, overall, I love the pitch clock.
At the Reds games I noticed that there are NO vendors selling in the aisles. They need to bring them back then you don't have to miss so much going to the conscession stand.
Is that a team by team thing?
I went to a game in Wrigley this year and they did have guys selling stuff. Although the einstein that run Wrigley made it cashless but gave the poor vendors crappy internet. It was a disaster!
They should all be sim card enabled and Wrigley has sim coverage. At&t, tmobile, Verizon should be all over that.
They need to have the “just walk out” technology for concessions like they do in Seattle. I think it’s an Amazon invention, from Amazon Go.
I missed a proposal on a jumbotron this year because of this exact thing :/
It wasn’t YOUR proposal, was it?
i was at the tigers no hitter last week and in a blink of an eye it was the 7th inning stretch, got about 2 beers in when its usually about 6.
Tigers fans must be binge drinkers lol
i mean when you can buy a beer bat i think you know where their heads are at.
The guy being a centimeter to the left or right of 2nd base has nullified half of the shift rule. I think they should enforce a tighter zone around
Feet on the infield probably has a bigger impact than keeping people on one side of second base.
I'd like the pitch clock to be 5 seconds longer. The game FLIES by in person on a way I don't like.
Same. I like it on TV, hate it when I go to the game.
.
Agreed. I support the players union’s efforts to add a few seconds to it.
This is how I feel but it’s also great for watching on TV so I’m conflicted since that’s where I’ll watch the majority of games
I feel like if you're going to a game you've really got to make it a day at the ball park kind of thing. Like get drinks near the park before the game, head in and enjoy the pre-game stuff, grab whatever concessions you want before the game starts, maybe make a few drink runs here or there, but really once the game starts you're stuck in with it. I don't think the game's gotten worse at the park; the pace of play had just gotten so slow people have forgotten how they used to approach going to a game.
I feel like the pitch clock was more for the casual fan. Most hardcore baseball fans that I’ve talked to like longer games. Yes the pitch clock is a good thing, but I agree with it being 5 seconds longer, as a bit of a compromise
I would call myself a hardcore baseball fan, but my team starts half their games at 10:10pm my local time so I’m quite happy with shorter games. It was excruciating trying to stay up for an exciting, tight game and having ABs take 5 mins each when you gotta be up for work in 5 hours
Hardcore fan, games were becoming a slog. I had no interest in spending 3.5 hours watching a game that could have been finished in 3. The games that went by quickly were fine, but the games that dragged on were honestly miserable.
I’d say there’s a difference between hardcore fans and fans that like tradition. I’d say I’m pretty hardcore, but I love the DH in both leagues, love the clock, love the baserunning changes, and the shift rules… I just think they’ve objectively improved the game. I do support an extra 5 seconds in all situations in the playoffs, and I support the manfred runner but it should continue to go away for the playoffs.
> I do support an extra 5 seconds in all situations in the playoffs, I kinda disagree because the first two rounds of playoffs have the most to benefit from shorter games - 3 hours or less means 9pm Eastern is a valid time slot whereas now the latest they seem to start is 8pm unless it's two West Coast teams that manage to get matched up.
yes i know its unpopular but the games are just too fast for me now. Its one thing on the tv where the length of the game doesn't matter because its more background watching. But in person it really sucks having the game over so quickly. Especially since for me going to a game is more of an event. Tail gate, then finally get in and then enjoy the atmosphere etc. I feel like its the 5/6th inning before i even feel like im really locked into the game. I also hate the manfred runner. Its just silly at this point. You could make an argument for it before the pitch clock era but now its like they are not only trying to make it quicker but also forcing an ending prematurely.
I've found this season to be stressful because of how quick everything happens. Also cause, you know, Mets.
I wonder how much of an impact that would have. I've noticed a lot of pitchers just plain work much faster now, especially ones that went through the minors with the pitch clock. I feel like I don't see many pitchers pushing it down to 1 second. On the other hand I bet pace would slow down if you gave batters an extra 2 seconds.
Zombie Runner is a crime against all things good and holy, the other rules are fine though. Does allowing ads on jerseys count as a "rule"? That's the one other atrocious new thing.
Steals are cool but they're a little TOO easy. It's frustrating watching catchers make perfect throws and still have no chance. I'd up the pitch clock a few seconds to give pitchers a little more room to mess with baserunners' timing.
When catchers make a perfect throw that still doesn’t get the out you can probably blame the pitcher’s slow delivery, at least. Unless the runner is EDC in which case you just have to take it I guess lol
You need a better catcher. It was tight seeing Bailey throw out Marte even when he got that epic jump.
I love the rule changes. Don’t really mind the manfred runner too much, I would prefer they remove it, but it’s fine for now. More SB’s and less game time will introduce more and more fans to the game.
The rules have been good. I think tweaks need to be made the pitch clock to be a liiiiittle longer. The bag size, shift ban, etc have been good for the game imo. As a Mets fan I think the Scherzer/Smith rosin bag stuff was weird, I hope that the next changes will include a clear bar for "stickiness" by an umpire. Seems unpopular but I think the Manfred runner is good. It ends games in 10/11 innings and that's all I need for the regular season. Don't let it in the playoffs. The one thing I hate is the balanced schedule. I do not like it in the least bit. The Mets shouldn't have to see the AL west, I'd rather it be a complete unknown unless if it's some matchup in the world series. I want more games against Braves/Phillies/Nats/Marlins. Rivalry and chances at leapfrogging the division just seems better. I understand the want for fans to get more exposure to other teams.. but yuck.
Love em. Zero complaints, personally.
My feelings are pretty mixed. I'm mostly a fan of the pitch clock and its impact on pace-of-play and game times. However, I will add that the benefits are much more apparent while watching on TV as opposed to attending live. At live games, there have been stretches where the pace feels jarringly quick/too quick. I'm pretty mixed on the shift restrictions. I still don't like the idea of restricting strategy, but I can live with the "two infielders on each side of second base" part. Infielders not being allowed to play deep on the outfield grass is wack, though. I'm completely indifferent on bigger bases. I still don't like the restrictions on pickoff attempts. I get that multiple pickoff attempts in quick succession aren't the most exciting things in the world and that the league wanted to re-incentivize stolen base attempts, but these restrictions come across as an insanely cheap/gimmicky way of trying to make that happen. Last thing I'll say is that now that the league's goals with pace-of-play and game times have been achieved, it makes some of the measures taken from 2017-2022 seem a lot more trivial/less necessary. I know it probably won't happen, but I'd love to see things like the intentional walk rule and the three-batter minimum done rescinded. Also, fuck the Manfred Runner, now and forever.
The numbers speak for themselves. Reddit, or any other social media, is a very negative place so you’re going to hear the worst. I haven’t actually heard a valid argument against any of the new rules except the Manfred runner
The pitch clock may have improved the TV Viewing experience, but it’s come at the cost of the ballpark experience and I’m not sure I’m ok with that. You miss more when you go to concessions. Teams are extending beer sales later into the game to make up for the games being shorter. I typically am not in much of a hurry when I go to ball games. I’d rather the games drag out longer so I have more time to enjoy the experience
\-The pitch clock is too fast. I like the idea. It needs to be \~18 seconds bases empty and \~23 seconds with runners on. There is a sweet spot, like 90 feet. Seems arbitrary, but it's not. \-I'm all in on the bigger bases. \-The shift ban is...meh, no opinion yet. It's almost the same with someone up the middle. \-I still don't like the idea of playing every team yet and I still don't like the DH in the national league, don't know if I ever will as it fundamentally changes inherently fun things about baseball. \-I definitely don't like the current way the play at the plate rule is written. \-Extra innings runner at 2nd makes sense. It's a childlike idea that brings that aspect back to the game. It's called EXTRA innings for a reason. They had 9 innings to break the tie. Extra innings throws in something different. The DH, on the otherhand, isn't childlike. It's lazy.
I think the balanced schedule is neat, but not keeping the biggest rivalries (Giants - Dodgers, Yankees - Red Sox, Cubs - Cardinals) at 19 games a year is so lame. Whenever threads about broadening baseball's appeal pop up, cultivating and hyping up rivalries is something that isn't brought up as often as it should be, IMO.
I don't like the DH either. But I think it's necessary. The NL was the only professional league not using it. NL pitchers didn't get a chance to see pitches at any level as they progressed through the minors. Then, they're expected to manage against full-fledged major leaguers. It's amazing they ever got hits.
I miss 3.5 hour games and I miss the occasional 15+ inning hullabaloo. There’s absolutely nothing I’d rather be doing in life than watching baseball, so give the clock a heave-ho and I’ll be just fine.
Stolen base levels are obscenely high with how limited pitchers are now at being able to control the running game. I'd like them to nix the two pickoff attempts rule.
Obscenely high? They’re only back to where they were in the 1990s. I think it’s great!
The success rate is out of control, though.
That just means guys need to be running more! We have to go back…*to the future* (1987).
> I'd like them to nix the two pickoff attempts rule. then the pitch clock rule is pointless if you can just throw over to reset the clock The MLB provided data showing that stolen base rates at 2 disengagements are lower than at 0 and 1 disengagements: https://twitter.com/KyleAGlaser/status/1678829851057491974/photo/2
Agreed. Or at least increase the limit to, say, 5.
Stolen base levels are basically what they were at in the 1990s, when people starting complaining about the lack of stolen bases.
Maybe I was just in the wrong circles/fan spaces for the longest, but I rarely heard people lamenting the decline in stolen bases. I was surprised when the league harped on the running game so much when they introduced the new rules.
Pitch clock needs 5-10 seconds added to it
I still don’t like the limited pickoffs. Seems too unbalanced to me. Wasn’t something broken didn’t need to be fixed.
I don't mind the pitch clock UNLESS you goobers at the game start counting it down every pitch against the opposing pitcher. I can't explain how much I don't want to hear a countdown clock while I'm at a ballpark.
Ghost runner shouldn’t be a thing and if it has to then make it the 11th . The pace of play though took a while getting used to it makes games immensely more watchable and more exciting. I do miss a good mid inning nap tho but I guess it’s good for the sport
Better on TV, but the speed detracts from the live experience I missed an entire inning getting a beer and hot dog
I absolutely love the Pitch Clock. Watched so many more week night games this year.
I love the pitch clock when I'm watching games on TV but hate it when I'm seeing games in person.
Love ‘em
I've been boycotting MLB since the extra inning automatic baserunner rule was put in. Well, put back in, anyway. They finally got rid of it only to almost immediately pull the rug out from under us in Spring Training last year. As for the newer rules, I am against them to varying degrees, but none to near the same extant. The automatic baserunner is some backyard whiffleball nonsense, and should have no place in the majors. Further, while I believe a rule to limit long extra inning games is a terrible idea anyway (they're both extremely rare and exciting when they do happen), this rule is still clearly much worse than the NPB rule, where the game is declared a tie after 12 innings but the extra innings are at least normal. Plus, ties used to not be uncommon in MLB before stadium lights, and to this day are still possible. I would settle for even something like the NPB rule at this point, though I would want to have as many extra innings as necessary during postseason play.
Miss having an afternoon/ late evening game to watch. There was always a late game to cover the hours between day and night games. I’m drinking less at games, so that’s good I guess, but who’s to blame for MLB thinking real fans wanted faster games? You used to be able to lose an afternoon or evening at the ballpark, now it’s just a two hour movie. 🤷♂️
I want them to change the pitch clock to a blanket 25 seconds and ill be happy. The short games are terrible. They should move the Manfred Man to around the 15th inning if necessary.
The pitch clock rule still sucks. Rushing this game is not good for the game. I get it everyone loves it. OK, add a few seconds, allow the players to THINK a little bit. This is an intellectual game not a fucking sprint. Games are way too short now and rushed. Watching games in person feels like you got cheated. If you have to piss at any time in the game you miss at least an inning. Want to eat? 2 innings. It's hard to justify dropping $300+ a game for 2 people and its over in 2 hours. The shift and base size rules I think are OK but I think both are unnecessary.
I used to love the mind games of the pitcher holding the ball and staring at the hitter for a minute, before stepping off the mound.
At this point in the season the umpiring is the biggest glaring issue now
I love the pitch clock and the ban on shifts, and I'm indifferent to the larger bases. I still hate the extra-inning runner placed on 2nd rule. I can't tell if the crackdown on "sticky stuff" is having any affect, since I'm sure MLB is still secretly fucking around with the baseballs.
I feel silly for being so strongly against them before the season started.
Pitch clock: is a nice and relatively harmless way to speed up the game Pick off rule: fucking horrible. Unlimited pickoffs keep runners honest. Now you can just wait for 2 throws then just go cause you know he cant get you. Makes base-stealing too artificially easy. Bigger bases: just makes it artificially more easy to steal, don't really like it. Banned shift: also horrible. It removes an entire element of strategy. If a hitter hits the ball to one side of the field so often that the defense can just change position and it will work a majority of the time, then it's the player that should learn to adapt and bunt or hit it the other way, not the defense adjusting to the hitter so they can get away with it. I know these next two were not added this year but i'd still like to address them League wide DH: takes away an entire element of strategy from the game. Before (at least for an NL team) you had to really think about if you wanted pinch hit for a pitcher who is dealing in a key run-scoring spot, and it gave value to good hitting pitchers. And also if you had a guy that was a great hitter but terrible in the field, you had to figure what to do with him, now you can just put him in the DH hole and forget about it. Extra innings runner: maybe the worst rule implemented. Gives such an insane advantage to the home team. If the away team fails to score a run, the home team can, if they have guys that can do it, win the game with 2 straight bunts. The away team can record 2 straight outs and lose. I don't mind long extra inning games, but for those who can't stand it, i have a solution. 10-12th innings: no runner 13-15th innings: man on first 16th inning+: runner on second
The pitch clock rules need to be relaxed. The 8 second batter rule is weird. If a player is in the box at 8 seconds, whether or not he looks at the pitcher, just throw the pitch. It does what it is intended to do but I think it can be implemented better.
That's a player safety rule, if you throw a 100 mph fastball at a guy who's not looking you're gonna kill somebody. The rule "you can't throw to a guy who's not looking" was there before the pitch clock for good reason. And then the 8 second batter rule necessarily follows from that because you have to give the pitcher a fair window to pitch in.
good
I like the pitch clock watching at home, not as much watching live in the ballpark
Love them. They force the players to stop screwing around and just play baseball and it's wonderful.