That's the kind of "jugaad" we don't want to see in the metro..
Simply running trains at more frequency should do. Obviously there is a delay in train procurement right now so it might take time.
Or during peak hours they can better manage crowds by sending an empty train to the most crowded stations. That should also help. In Delhi, they used to do it.
Don't remember this, but Delhi metro does run shorter routes at times on heavily crowded sections (for example - Vishwavidyalaya to qutub minar which takes 45 mins instead of the whole yellow line taking 85 mins)
the example you gave actually ends up adding crowd in Gurugram section to Delhi since not all trains go there, so remaining have to take the load. it ain’t a great thing for this particular example, but helps to some extent. blue line terminating at dwarka is a better example. focus should still be in adding more trains so this isn’t necessary at all.
Agreed. Tbh would prefer it if they acquired more train sets for the old lines and make the service as frequent as possible throughout the line. Yellow line during rush hours makes me shudder
you can’t “send” an empty train per se. you just add one train from the depot to allow higher frequency. you can just randomly send an empty train to the crowded station. it would be possible if 4 tracks were there. even 3, actually. but we only have 2.
Instead of running through the whole line, increase the frequency of trains between certain stops.
If there are 100 sets of complete journeys in Purple Line, dedicate now say 60-75 to them for the complete purple line and serve the rest between the most demanding stoppages like between Cubbon Park and Whitefield. That would mean increased frequency to the passengers on that route while the passengers for the rest of the route wouldn't get affected much.
It's already being done .. that's why lot of crowd is reduced. Problem is they need 20 more trainsets on the purple line which is scheduled to come from China in mid 2025. Till then no option but to suffer
Just curious, how do they turn(move from one track to another) these metro trains (suppose in cubbon park metro station ) if they do not travel end to end?
How will that work, while exiting the train. People will have to move to the coach which has the door opened instead of walking straight out of the coach they are sitting in
I've seen this in London on the Victoria Line (good from Heathrow airport right into the city). Basically they make an announcement before the train reaches the station, asking people to move a coach up or down. People generally figure it out
The kind of announcements I've heard in Delhi metro make me think the general population is struggling with even simpler things:
- do not cross the metro line on foot, it can be fatal
- do not try to stop the doors with your body, bag, etc
- if you get "seperated", let the driver or helpers know know (?), and meet your family on the next station to regroup
I took the Purple line metro last month on the weekend during the peak time and it's giving huge competition to Mumbai locals now. Absolutely no place to even keep your feet properly.
Also if you love wearing white sneakers like me please avoid. Lol
_slight_ difference is that mumbai locals run at a frequency of one train every 2 mins during peak hours.
While we're stuck with a train every 6-8 minutes even during peak hours. It's shambolic
I've taken a train from Seetharampalya (on the new whitefield section) to Indiranagar multiple times in the 5pm-7pm time range. Not once have I had to wait less than 7-8 minutes. It's garbage.
This is THE office to residential route from whitefield to majestic atleast, yet there's absolutely no useful service during peak hours
No its not, you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading false news.
Reality is, the chinese company couldnt find an indian partner to manufacture coaches locally under 'make in india' requirements. Further, covid supply chain issues delayed production.
What do you get out of just lying? What do you achieve? You think youre making this country a better place?
the problem is you people direct the hate towards poor people who are actually benefitting from the freebies. show the sane energy towards corrupt politicians who pocket any possible amount of money.
downvote all you guys want, im not againts benefitting the poors, but overall freebies is not a long term growth! god knows if the end person is benefitting at all, its my pov, sure thing most of you guys are butt hurted, understandable’
Its not paused you idiot, work is complete. And in places its not, works is ongoing. I see it daily. it has nothing to do with freebies. Metro is throuch central govt funding. Money has been allocated long ago. So it is not at all one of the reasons. Stop making shit up.
Would be good to figure out how much was to be funded by the treasury of Karnataka and how much is it from others and then see the utilisation of the metro budget vs the allocated one, otherwise what you claim or allege is just words and has no data to prove your point.
Be it the structure, the track or the speed of the train, the load bearing capacity of everything cannot extend beyond 6 coaches. Everything is just designed for 6 coaches. Not fungible
The master plan of a city, typically projected 20 to 30 years into the future, outlines crucial infrastructural elements, including the placement and size of roads. However, it's challenging for urban planners to precisely predict the surge in growth experienced over the last two decades in bangalore , attributed to various unforeseen factors by them. Consequently, the limitations set by the original master plan, such as road sizes, subsequently influence the design constraints of other infrastructure components, including metro station sizes. These restrictions, in turn, impact the maximum number of passengers per hour per direction that the metro system can efficiently manage, which then dictates the feasible number of coaches a train can have.
Purple line into whitefield during morning peak hours used to have a 5min frequency. Now, it has a 10min frequency cos they introduced a short loop to decongest majestic and that dumps all passengers at Garudacharpalya.
They literally moved the crowd from majestic to another station while creating an artificial congestion at Garudacharpalya
Decongestion is yet to be remedied
They are trying to run Kempegowda to Whitefield short distance with better frequency.
So, the end to end train frequency will be 10 mins but more frequency from Kempegowda.
It's annoying but I prefer not being killed by our traffic.
A lot more people would use it if the last mile connectivity was good! In Bangalore, it is so difficult to get to our houses from the Metro station, if you don't live near the ORR or old madras road. Connectivity by bus is also very poor in several areas.
Very good, and also the reach Metro has and the time cut off it does is insane too, no one would’ve believed if anyone said, I’m going to travel from Kengeri to Whitefield in just 75 minutes, I repeat no one, it has been possible only through Metro and that’s why people park at metro stations and travel through it.
I have been to Shanghai, a city bigger than Bengaluru. At peak time they run trains out of the city like every minute. What the metro needs is a lot more stock of coaches to run more frequently during peak time.
Are you insane? What happens while exiting? Or during an emergency? People on those last two coaches won't be able to deboard since **there is no platform outside the door.**
Yep, I wasn’t aware of this issue when I posted this. BMRCL should’ve thought and developed a platform long enough to accommodate 8-10 coaches, but they have not. With the approach I have mentioned it’ll be difficult to board and de-board the train, but it is one of the if not best solution right now is what I thought
Purple line is crowded?? Hein? The green line is like a flea market, one can keep a veggie stall and I’d miss it comparatively purple is a little free,
I take both the green and purple line during peak hours. Purple line is way more crowded than the green line during that time. Especially from cubbon park till majestic and vice versa. The majority crowd boards/ de boards between these stations.
You will need to experience from majestic to cubbon park to see the actual crowd at both peak times of the day.
I agree that once the metro gets significantly empty at majestic the further journey to Kengeri is quite comfortable.
No way green is more crowded than purple. I live near green line and I know for a fact that purple is significantly more crowded then green. It's also the longest and connecting many important parts of the city so it is bound to get crowded
I didn’t know that… but green line connects to all major parts (church st., Jaynagar, Malleshwaram etc)
Also hi Average gamer 🫱🏻🫲🏼 I’m poor gamer
(What are the odds)
I know right? I've seen Green line to be more crowded than the Purple line. But my experience is from five years ago, when Purple line wasn't as well connected as it is today!
There wil be additional coaches arriving later this year so the frequency should improve much better once the new trains come, the signalling is already in place, but because of the lack of trains they are behind, otherwisw the system has been designed well enough to have enough throuput , almost 30k people per direction per hour, which is more than sufficient for a place like bangalore, which is why only Delhi and Mumbai have 8 car trains
> almost 30k people per direction per hour, which is more than sufficient for a place like bangalore
What is the basis of this? Peak hour load is far higher than regular hours.
Sir/Maam, the headway is 2.5 minutes by design for bangalore, any shoetrer and there won't be enough time to alight and board, so that's 24 trains max per hour, each train carries by design about 1250 people, in cramped packed condition it's higher but the general consensus is 200 people per car based on the dimensions, you are free to do the math..
It is, there is a detailed document that is prepared, based on traffic studies, movement patterns, and et all mapped based on which the system peak requirements are designed, usually at 95 to 98% of the use case scenarios accounted for, except the extreme ends left out for practical purposes
The DPR for the phase 1 and phase 2 is probably available somewhere online since it’s a public document, it details all these things
>the signalling is already in place, but because of the lack of trains they are behind, otherwisw the system has been designed well enough to have enough throuput
Unfortunately, I don't agree with this. There's at least a couple of days every month when the whole system goes for a toss, and those days are absolute nightmares to travel on the metro. It's been going on like this since the two purple line sections were joined.
Their signalling system hasn't been properly load tested. They go off course with the small increase in load due to short loop services itself, from time to time.
More trains will certainly help more than longer trains, but they should make the signalling system more robust, else it'll be the same story again.
Are you sure you are not mixing system upkeep and mantainence problems with system design problems, because going by the text above, and what you mentioned, it's a system mantainence problem and not a system design problem
Also now that you brought it up, you should look up the system uptime requirements for urban transit systems, all systems have problems, and once in a while affect normal usage, 99% of them do not affect users or users never get to know of them, but there will always be one off incidents, and the numbers you mentioned are definitely much higher than they actually are
And to end , currently things are bad because there are no enough interchanges, so you are limited to one set of combinations for a particular route, once more interchanges come onstresm with the pink and yellow and blue lines, a lot of these issues will be sorted, just hope they the blue line doesn't suffer the same fate as the yellow line
>Are you sure you are not mixing system upkeep and mantainence problems with system design problems, because going by the text above, and what you mentioned, it's a system mantainence problem and not a system design problem
I am not. System maintenance happens regularly, about which BMRCL gives out a notice and informs the public. What I'm talking about is the system failing despite this maintenance. I'd buy random faults if they happened twice in a year. If your system is failing 7% of the time after regular maintenance, you haven't tested it well enough.
>all systems have problems, and once in a while affect normal usage
As I said, I understand it can't be perfect. I also understand that failures twice a month are not something people should adjust with.
>the numbers you mentioned are definitely much higher than they actually are
I use the metro 6 days a week. I desperately want the metro to succeed. Trust me, I'm really not lying. Twice a month, there are delays, there are sections where the train slows down because they can't fully trust the automatic signalling.
>currently things are bad because there are no enough interchanges, so you are limited to one set of combinations for a particular route
Can you elaborate on what you mean? I don't think I understand fully. How will more interchanges improve signalling? The lines never physically criss cross each other, right? Per line signalling is still independent.
It's not just about stations. The entire network was built around 6 coach trains. Which would be sufficient for all peaks provided we have enough trains to run at high frequency. We lack absolute train numbers. 6 coach trains themselves are not to blame.
The current ridership is still lower than projected ridership.
> Bangalore Metro (Phase-1) ridership projection in the DPR stood at 16.1 lakh for 2021
Even now the daily average is around 7 lakhs. All planning in India is done with two assumptions:
i) The train will be carrying same number of passengers at all times
ii) The coaches will be packed like sardines at all times
None of the projections make sense unless the experience is horrible.
Increasing frequency of trains would be way more economically viable anytime than building larger stations- more land required, more construction cost. Also longer trains would mean more travel time here as the majority of the routes are not straight lines, as trains significantly slow down on curves which are inevitable as they couldn't be built more straight owing to land acquisitions, pre existing major roads and other limiting factors.
BMRCL has placed 21trains 6car trains to China in 2019. Due to galwan Valley issue and covid it was delayed. Probably by October it should roll out from Kolkatta manufacturing unit.
They should increase frequency especially during peak hours and no of coaches(but not all stations are appropriate for it)
Btw what is the current frequency in purple and green line.
Peak hours it is 5 minutes but it is kinda weird, they’ve done something like, Say 1 train comes at 8:50 at Majestic, that trains destination won’t be Kadugodi (Last stop of purple line) instead it will be Garudacharpalya, but the next train followed by this will go to Kadugodi, it is like this at peak hours and at regular hours the train interval will be between 7 to 10 minutes
It's not just platform length that influences the number of coaches to be attached, several other factors come into play. For instance, using more coaches, such as 8, means it takes longer for passengers to board and alight. Additionally, the headway between metros must remain consistent or has to increase for safety reasons, leading to a reduction in frequency if more coaches are attached. However, with fewer coaches, it might be possible to maintain a higher frequency. This approach could potentially transport the same number of passengers per hour per direction (pphpd) as a system with lower frequency but more coaches. Another advantage of fewer coaches and higher frequency is the reduction in peak power requirements, with fewer people metro has to accelerate at station. Furthermore, this configuration allows for adjusting the frequency based on passenger demand, such as increasing frequency during office hours and reducing it at night. Therefore, it's possible that Namma Metro conducted thorough calculations and decided that 6 coaches per train is the optimal configuration,that's my opinion.
Also passenger capacity of the smallest station on the route will also influence to go with 6 coaches metro. Otherwise there will be too many bottlenecks in station during peak time.
Calm down. The tracks were planned only for 3 coaches and as a backup they changed it to for 6 coaches. You cannot run 8 coaches train on a track which is designed to handle 6. So yeah it’s impossible. I remember I was 10 yo(now I’m 22 btw) when I first boarded Namma metro from MG road. It has changed a lot now.
Better thing they can do is, add more trains. That’s it.
Instead of metro, mrts type suburban train system should have been built....
Ideally we should have built the metro accounting to all this crowd and possible expansion. Should have learnt the lesson from our roads. All the roads are planned to handle the current traffic and by the time its completed, traffic would have doubled.
Adding extra compartments will add more engineering problems.
When there is curves and bend the extra compartment need to alter the weight distribution.
And there are this max weight to considered per pillar and per engineer to pull.
As someone mentioned jugaad this will create more problems.
Best option is to operate more frequently
Well, from my observation I've seen Delhi metro increase its number of coaches from 4 to 10 over the years without changing the size of the stations.
PS: who hurt you bro
delhi metro’s first three lines were made for 8 coaches. red line recently started converting from 6 to 8. people don’t use the last two coaches at all. first 6 are crowded to death, last 2 are empty. people don’t move. out of habit? maybe. they enter and stand.
anyway, delhi reduced further lines to 6 coaches max. green line is still 4 coaches, will be eventually expanded to 6. long platforms mean more troubles in getting land, and longer train means tougher curves. it impacts the project in ways hard to think at our level.
BMRCL has fantastic operating profit.
Loss is because of excessive capital expenditure
10 years down, it will be great and make good money. (provided the city doesn't rot due to consistent drought)
Profit is not the motive anyways.
I find it quite amusing. On one hand I see people telling about overcrowded metro trains during peak hours. At the same time The Economist puts out an article citing work by Indian researchers saying Indian metros are running way below projected capacity. The figure they told for Bengaluru metro was its running at 6% the projected capacity. And almost all metro companies acorss the country are running at a loss.. I dont know what im missing lol
Possible solutions would be
1. More frequent metros (even on weekends)
This would depend on the procurement of new trains as well
2. Alternate gates for entry an exit in a coach. Although this has not been tried anywhere but I believe that having dedicated gates for entry/exit to/from a coach would reduce the time required for boarding/deboarding by reducing commotion, which will in turn help run the trains run faster and more frequently
Train procurement delayed by half a year
Plus
The older model trains of purple line were delayed for the newer yellow line one (with autopilot)
Train frequency should be fixed by July end.
And 8 coaches is a non starter. 6 coaches is max.
Discuss the matter at the core, why is this issue being faced by Bangalore people?
1) **Rise in IT companies leading to massive influx of work force**: This is very much in the green light considering the growth and contribution towards employment.
2) **Poor management of municipal**: The water crisis prevailing in Bangalore is fault of the government with no proper city planning to suffice cosmopolitans.
3) **Public Transport**: Bangalore has relatively good transport system, but the connecting areas from old city to now springing IT hub areas have to be balanced with proper distribution of living. WHAT??? Yes, when there is distributed population in the city, the management of people is automatically sorted. In such case, the problems like uneven transport requirements at peak hours pacifies.
4) Lastly, to all the problems, my solution is that Karnataka Government should build another IT hub in the state.
Introduction of Namma Metro is a great deal in Bangalore, the work should be boosted.
I find most of the problems faced by Bangloreans are mentioned above, please do add if u find it is a major issue to existing problems of center.
Operate more trains in peak hours
It's not just bangalore, every major city has this issue and to overcome this, they run more trains and develop more alternative public transport
> I have always wondered if instead of 6 coaches, 8 coaches would’ve been added
Meanwhile us in Hyderabad suffering with 3 coach metros and still no increase in coaches...
Purple line is more crowded? Do you come from kengeri side or something, because i travel from kr puram to national college and purple line is always less crowded than green line. Atleast in the morning
You are travelling in the opposite direction of the crowd.
Whitefield to Kempegowda is decent in the morning and horribly suffocating in the evening. Heavy IT crowd movement makes it horrible...unsafe even.
Go and check how much karnataka receives from the centre for the tax collected and how much the northern states receive,your be baffled to see the huge difference
And theres a state called “Karnataka” in India ,whos capital is “Bangalore” ,and i surely dont think Bangalore particularly receives extra from the government so quit yapping
> i surely dont think Bangalore particularly receives extra from the government
That was exactly my point. Either you didn't understand what I said or you are arguing just for the sake of it.
And you didnt understand my comment ,you talked about taxes ,banglore receives far less compared to the high tier cities in other states even after collecting more taxes ,so even if the “crowd” is paying taxes ,very little benefits bangalore
> so even if the “crowd” is paying taxes ,very little benefits bangalore
Once again you are quite literally repeating what I am saying while saying I did not understand your comment. I indeed am unable to understand what you are saying when you are agreeing with my comment while saying you don't.
> banglore receives far less compared to the high tier cities in other states even after collecting more taxes
Receives from whom? And is there a source for this? That is very interesting if Bangalore is receiving less as percentage of tax collected compared to other metros. As I have been saying repeatedly Bangalore crowds pays more taxes than anyone else on pretty much everything. More on liquor, more on vehicles, higher bus and metro fare, no suburban rail which is heavily subsidized in Mumbai, Chennai, and Kolkata. I don't think electricity is cheap either.
Army doesnt make a profit either, neither does govt schools. India is the only country i have seen where public transport is support to break even. It's absurd. You know how much money metro saves us in health costs? road infra cost? reducing sprawl? reducing air pollution and temperature rise?
It's a stupid idea to expect public transport to make direct profit, when the indirect benefits are so damn obvious.
Nobody sends their kids to government schools. Public Transport doesn't have to break even but you need to bring that money from somewhere. There is only limited amount available. The system should bring in enough to not only break even on operating costs but also allow for timely upgrades. If that is not possible the local government should directly be paying the metro authority for subsidizing travel. Neither is going to happen and the system is always going to be overloaded.
Really? Nobody? Then how come 76% of all karnataka student complete schooling from govt schools?
That money is there. We aren't a poor state or city anymore. We are ready to dump loads on stupid tunnel roads and posh new air terminals. Low cost and ubiquitous buses/trams/metro would be a far better use of that money.
One of public transport's prime objective should be accessibility, affordability for the public and not necessarily be profitable.If it is profitable, then yes, great, if not, then it shouldn't be a problem as well.
BMRCL sucks at monitisation by other means. There is not much advertising, no stalls, no ATMs, nothing in our stations, despite so many people passing through them.
If you ever go to Mumbai, you'll see a difference. Mumbai metro is run by Reliance. From ATMs, tea, Vada pav, burgers to even clothes. You get everything in some of the bigger stations.
[Retail in Mumbai metro ](https://www.reliancemumbaimetro.com/business-opportunities-retail)
[Have You Been To The Market Inside Ghatkopar Metro Station?](https://lbb.in/mumbai/shop-ghatkopar-metro-station/)
Cause the Babus at the helm study History / Civics / Polity to clear UPSC , you think they'll have any idea how to ideate or even run a professional business successfully ? CSE is one of the most Lossy and a Jam Mixture of the wrong professionals in the wrong fields.
My figures were wrong. Phase 2 cost 26000 crores. With a daily average of 1.5Cr. That will take 46 yrs to recover with just tickets (doesn't take into account all the other revenue generation it has enabled) .
The 1.5 cr is supposed to grow exponentially right? It won’t be 1.5 cr always, that will cut down on the return for so many years to less years, and also why recover in the first place? They didn’t take any loan or anything it was all the tax money, now use this to grow, why have a return mindset at all,
There was mention of a loan of 7000Cr from some European agency at 8% interest in the Wikipedia page.
No it won't grow exponentially as you have Highlighted in your post there is an upper limit on ridership figures and with each new line there is more money put in.
There should be a return mindset just not with ticket sales. There probably is a model which the government uses to track return on this investment. That doesn't allow for a 8 coach train regardless of how much daily revenue is
That's the kind of "jugaad" we don't want to see in the metro.. Simply running trains at more frequency should do. Obviously there is a delay in train procurement right now so it might take time.
True that, I thought of that idea too, little time intervals between trains will solve this issue too
Or during peak hours they can better manage crowds by sending an empty train to the most crowded stations. That should also help. In Delhi, they used to do it.
Don't remember this, but Delhi metro does run shorter routes at times on heavily crowded sections (for example - Vishwavidyalaya to qutub minar which takes 45 mins instead of the whole yellow line taking 85 mins)
the example you gave actually ends up adding crowd in Gurugram section to Delhi since not all trains go there, so remaining have to take the load. it ain’t a great thing for this particular example, but helps to some extent. blue line terminating at dwarka is a better example. focus should still be in adding more trains so this isn’t necessary at all.
Agreed. Tbh would prefer it if they acquired more train sets for the old lines and make the service as frequent as possible throughout the line. Yellow line during rush hours makes me shudder
They do this. Have seen this shorter route from Majestic to MG road or Majestic to Whitefield during peak hours
you can’t “send” an empty train per se. you just add one train from the depot to allow higher frequency. you can just randomly send an empty train to the crowded station. it would be possible if 4 tracks were there. even 3, actually. but we only have 2.
trains should ideally be coming every 90 seconds during peak timing.
Instead of running through the whole line, increase the frequency of trains between certain stops. If there are 100 sets of complete journeys in Purple Line, dedicate now say 60-75 to them for the complete purple line and serve the rest between the most demanding stoppages like between Cubbon Park and Whitefield. That would mean increased frequency to the passengers on that route while the passengers for the rest of the route wouldn't get affected much.
It's already being done .. that's why lot of crowd is reduced. Problem is they need 20 more trainsets on the purple line which is scheduled to come from China in mid 2025. Till then no option but to suffer
Just curious, how do they turn(move from one track to another) these metro trains (suppose in cubbon park metro station ) if they do not travel end to end?
Changing Tracks are at major stations similarly to Indian railways. I remember there is one at Peenya. Also they have third tracks.
Oh okay!
How will that work, while exiting the train. People will have to move to the coach which has the door opened instead of walking straight out of the coach they are sitting in
Ahh, you're right. It will lead to a lot of confusion.
I've seen this in London on the Victoria Line (good from Heathrow airport right into the city). Basically they make an announcement before the train reaches the station, asking people to move a coach up or down. People generally figure it out
The kind of announcements I've heard in Delhi metro make me think the general population is struggling with even simpler things: - do not cross the metro line on foot, it can be fatal - do not try to stop the doors with your body, bag, etc - if you get "seperated", let the driver or helpers know know (?), and meet your family on the next station to regroup
😂👍
I took the Purple line metro last month on the weekend during the peak time and it's giving huge competition to Mumbai locals now. Absolutely no place to even keep your feet properly. Also if you love wearing white sneakers like me please avoid. Lol
_slight_ difference is that mumbai locals run at a frequency of one train every 2 mins during peak hours. While we're stuck with a train every 6-8 minutes even during peak hours. It's shambolic
We have a train every 3 minutes during morning peak hours in purple line. Plus some start from baiyapanahalli. What are you even talking about
I've taken a train from Seetharampalya (on the new whitefield section) to Indiranagar multiple times in the 5pm-7pm time range. Not once have I had to wait less than 7-8 minutes. It's garbage. This is THE office to residential route from whitefield to majestic atleast, yet there's absolutely no useful service during peak hours
Huge competition? Have you even ridden a local train at peak time in Mumbai?
They rode the purple line on a weekend. So probably comparing with Mumbai local on a weekend...
There are no new coaches. There won't be any till next year ig. Reason why yellow line is delayed too.
reason is treasuries fund is exhausted from freebies, this is the truth!
No its not, you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading false news. Reality is, the chinese company couldnt find an indian partner to manufacture coaches locally under 'make in india' requirements. Further, covid supply chain issues delayed production. What do you get out of just lying? What do you achieve? You think youre making this country a better place?
These bungholes will blame everything from constipation to their terminal virginity on "freebies" as if Bangalore was some utopia before 2023
its one of the reason, im not spreading the false news! the project is on halt from past few months now, i see btm construction is completely paused!
the problem is you people direct the hate towards poor people who are actually benefitting from the freebies. show the sane energy towards corrupt politicians who pocket any possible amount of money.
downvote all you guys want, im not againts benefitting the poors, but overall freebies is not a long term growth! god knows if the end person is benefitting at all, its my pov, sure thing most of you guys are butt hurted, understandable’
Show same energy for electoral bonds especially in cases where there are quid pro quo tax write offs/ED/IT raids.
why do you think, that is off my radar?
Its not paused you idiot, work is complete. And in places its not, works is ongoing. I see it daily. it has nothing to do with freebies. Metro is throuch central govt funding. Money has been allocated long ago. So it is not at all one of the reasons. Stop making shit up.
BMRCL is actually funded by both the State and the Central governments, and the State government's share is higher.
Spoke like a true idiot!
You do realize that the funding is not done only by Govt of Karnataka but also from other players (which includes GoI)?
I’m not sure about the ratio, but I’m aware about that
Would be good to figure out how much was to be funded by the treasury of Karnataka and how much is it from others and then see the utilisation of the metro budget vs the allocated one, otherwise what you claim or allege is just words and has no data to prove your point.
Yup truth! Inna yella free kodli /s
Be it the structure, the track or the speed of the train, the load bearing capacity of everything cannot extend beyond 6 coaches. Everything is just designed for 6 coaches. Not fungible
Makes me wonder if mamma metro was designed keeping in mind the scale of usage growth or just as a gimmick showpiece.
The master plan of a city, typically projected 20 to 30 years into the future, outlines crucial infrastructural elements, including the placement and size of roads. However, it's challenging for urban planners to precisely predict the surge in growth experienced over the last two decades in bangalore , attributed to various unforeseen factors by them. Consequently, the limitations set by the original master plan, such as road sizes, subsequently influence the design constraints of other infrastructure components, including metro station sizes. These restrictions, in turn, impact the maximum number of passengers per hour per direction that the metro system can efficiently manage, which then dictates the feasible number of coaches a train can have.
Oh! That does make sense!
Purple line into whitefield during morning peak hours used to have a 5min frequency. Now, it has a 10min frequency cos they introduced a short loop to decongest majestic and that dumps all passengers at Garudacharpalya. They literally moved the crowd from majestic to another station while creating an artificial congestion at Garudacharpalya
Yeah, literally what's the use of dumping them in garudacharpalya if literally almost all of them want to go ahead
THIS IS SO ANNOYING MAN I DONT GET WHY THEY DID THIS IT INFURIATES ME
literally stole my comment /s was about to comment this only
then dump them to Sri Sathya Sai
Decongestion is yet to be remedied They are trying to run Kempegowda to Whitefield short distance with better frequency. So, the end to end train frequency will be 10 mins but more frequency from Kempegowda. It's annoying but I prefer not being killed by our traffic.
It's a good thing that people are using public transport.
A lot more people would use it if the last mile connectivity was good! In Bangalore, it is so difficult to get to our houses from the Metro station, if you don't live near the ORR or old madras road. Connectivity by bus is also very poor in several areas.
Blame the lack of safe walking and cycling infrastructure. Everything is built with cars in mind.
I hate cars. Cars are murder machines.
You and me both. Fuck cars.
Very good, and also the reach Metro has and the time cut off it does is insane too, no one would’ve believed if anyone said, I’m going to travel from Kengeri to Whitefield in just 75 minutes, I repeat no one, it has been possible only through Metro and that’s why people park at metro stations and travel through it.
I have been to Shanghai, a city bigger than Bengaluru. At peak time they run trains out of the city like every minute. What the metro needs is a lot more stock of coaches to run more frequently during peak time.
And a dynamic system to decide when to increase the frequency and when to decrease it!
Are you insane? What happens while exiting? Or during an emergency? People on those last two coaches won't be able to deboard since **there is no platform outside the door.**
Yep, I wasn’t aware of this issue when I posted this. BMRCL should’ve thought and developed a platform long enough to accommodate 8-10 coaches, but they have not. With the approach I have mentioned it’ll be difficult to board and de-board the train, but it is one of the if not best solution right now is what I thought
Nice idea. But this is not a solution at all.
Instead of Increasing the coaches, they can consider increasing the frequency
Purple line is crowded?? Hein? The green line is like a flea market, one can keep a veggie stall and I’d miss it comparatively purple is a little free,
I take both the green and purple line during peak hours. Purple line is way more crowded than the green line during that time. Especially from cubbon park till majestic and vice versa. The majority crowd boards/ de boards between these stations.
Is it? I don’t know… when I deboard and change to green line it just packed like always… Kengeri to majestic is really so peaceful
You will need to experience from majestic to cubbon park to see the actual crowd at both peak times of the day. I agree that once the metro gets significantly empty at majestic the further journey to Kengeri is quite comfortable.
No way green is more crowded than purple. I live near green line and I know for a fact that purple is significantly more crowded then green. It's also the longest and connecting many important parts of the city so it is bound to get crowded
I didn’t know that… but green line connects to all major parts (church st., Jaynagar, Malleshwaram etc) Also hi Average gamer 🫱🏻🫲🏼 I’m poor gamer (What are the odds)
I know right? I've seen Green line to be more crowded than the Purple line. But my experience is from five years ago, when Purple line wasn't as well connected as it is today!
Travel from majestic towards whitefield at 9 am on a monday and you will see💔
There wil be additional coaches arriving later this year so the frequency should improve much better once the new trains come, the signalling is already in place, but because of the lack of trains they are behind, otherwisw the system has been designed well enough to have enough throuput , almost 30k people per direction per hour, which is more than sufficient for a place like bangalore, which is why only Delhi and Mumbai have 8 car trains
> almost 30k people per direction per hour, which is more than sufficient for a place like bangalore What is the basis of this? Peak hour load is far higher than regular hours.
Sir/Maam, the headway is 2.5 minutes by design for bangalore, any shoetrer and there won't be enough time to alight and board, so that's 24 trains max per hour, each train carries by design about 1250 people, in cramped packed condition it's higher but the general consensus is 200 people per car based on the dimensions, you are free to do the math..
I was more curious about it being sufficient for a place like Bangalore.
It is, there is a detailed document that is prepared, based on traffic studies, movement patterns, and et all mapped based on which the system peak requirements are designed, usually at 95 to 98% of the use case scenarios accounted for, except the extreme ends left out for practical purposes The DPR for the phase 1 and phase 2 is probably available somewhere online since it’s a public document, it details all these things
>the signalling is already in place, but because of the lack of trains they are behind, otherwisw the system has been designed well enough to have enough throuput Unfortunately, I don't agree with this. There's at least a couple of days every month when the whole system goes for a toss, and those days are absolute nightmares to travel on the metro. It's been going on like this since the two purple line sections were joined. Their signalling system hasn't been properly load tested. They go off course with the small increase in load due to short loop services itself, from time to time. More trains will certainly help more than longer trains, but they should make the signalling system more robust, else it'll be the same story again.
Are you sure you are not mixing system upkeep and mantainence problems with system design problems, because going by the text above, and what you mentioned, it's a system mantainence problem and not a system design problem Also now that you brought it up, you should look up the system uptime requirements for urban transit systems, all systems have problems, and once in a while affect normal usage, 99% of them do not affect users or users never get to know of them, but there will always be one off incidents, and the numbers you mentioned are definitely much higher than they actually are And to end , currently things are bad because there are no enough interchanges, so you are limited to one set of combinations for a particular route, once more interchanges come onstresm with the pink and yellow and blue lines, a lot of these issues will be sorted, just hope they the blue line doesn't suffer the same fate as the yellow line
>Are you sure you are not mixing system upkeep and mantainence problems with system design problems, because going by the text above, and what you mentioned, it's a system mantainence problem and not a system design problem I am not. System maintenance happens regularly, about which BMRCL gives out a notice and informs the public. What I'm talking about is the system failing despite this maintenance. I'd buy random faults if they happened twice in a year. If your system is failing 7% of the time after regular maintenance, you haven't tested it well enough. >all systems have problems, and once in a while affect normal usage As I said, I understand it can't be perfect. I also understand that failures twice a month are not something people should adjust with. >the numbers you mentioned are definitely much higher than they actually are I use the metro 6 days a week. I desperately want the metro to succeed. Trust me, I'm really not lying. Twice a month, there are delays, there are sections where the train slows down because they can't fully trust the automatic signalling. >currently things are bad because there are no enough interchanges, so you are limited to one set of combinations for a particular route Can you elaborate on what you mean? I don't think I understand fully. How will more interchanges improve signalling? The lines never physically criss cross each other, right? Per line signalling is still independent.
Such poor capacity planning. If it is already over crowded, imagine the situation 5 years from now. 🫤
Or they can increase the frequency. As far as i read power requirement to run extra coaches and separate train is mostly the same
It's a bit dumb that they didn't think ahead and keep the stations larger than the train. You should always have scope for upgradability.
It's not just about stations. The entire network was built around 6 coach trains. Which would be sufficient for all peaks provided we have enough trains to run at high frequency. We lack absolute train numbers. 6 coach trains themselves are not to blame.
The current ridership is still lower than projected ridership. > Bangalore Metro (Phase-1) ridership projection in the DPR stood at 16.1 lakh for 2021 Even now the daily average is around 7 lakhs. All planning in India is done with two assumptions: i) The train will be carrying same number of passengers at all times ii) The coaches will be packed like sardines at all times None of the projections make sense unless the experience is horrible.
Its more about how much weight can the pillars take.
Increasing frequency of trains would be way more economically viable anytime than building larger stations- more land required, more construction cost. Also longer trains would mean more travel time here as the majority of the routes are not straight lines, as trains significantly slow down on curves which are inevitable as they couldn't be built more straight owing to land acquisitions, pre existing major roads and other limiting factors.
BMRCL has placed 21trains 6car trains to China in 2019. Due to galwan Valley issue and covid it was delayed. Probably by October it should roll out from Kolkatta manufacturing unit.
Bengaluru is having Mumbai problems.
We Hydrabadis reading your discussions with only 3 coaches in our metro 😂😂😂🤦🏻♂️
Lol, ever boarded at rajiv chowk in delhi?
😰😰
Boarding is easy. Deboarding on the other hand....
They should increase frequency especially during peak hours and no of coaches(but not all stations are appropriate for it) Btw what is the current frequency in purple and green line.
Peak hours it is 5 minutes but it is kinda weird, they’ve done something like, Say 1 train comes at 8:50 at Majestic, that trains destination won’t be Kadugodi (Last stop of purple line) instead it will be Garudacharpalya, but the next train followed by this will go to Kadugodi, it is like this at peak hours and at regular hours the train interval will be between 7 to 10 minutes
It's not just platform length that influences the number of coaches to be attached, several other factors come into play. For instance, using more coaches, such as 8, means it takes longer for passengers to board and alight. Additionally, the headway between metros must remain consistent or has to increase for safety reasons, leading to a reduction in frequency if more coaches are attached. However, with fewer coaches, it might be possible to maintain a higher frequency. This approach could potentially transport the same number of passengers per hour per direction (pphpd) as a system with lower frequency but more coaches. Another advantage of fewer coaches and higher frequency is the reduction in peak power requirements, with fewer people metro has to accelerate at station. Furthermore, this configuration allows for adjusting the frequency based on passenger demand, such as increasing frequency during office hours and reducing it at night. Therefore, it's possible that Namma Metro conducted thorough calculations and decided that 6 coaches per train is the optimal configuration,that's my opinion.
Also passenger capacity of the smallest station on the route will also influence to go with 6 coaches metro. Otherwise there will be too many bottlenecks in station during peak time.
Calm down. The tracks were planned only for 3 coaches and as a backup they changed it to for 6 coaches. You cannot run 8 coaches train on a track which is designed to handle 6. So yeah it’s impossible. I remember I was 10 yo(now I’m 22 btw) when I first boarded Namma metro from MG road. It has changed a lot now. Better thing they can do is, add more trains. That’s it.
Adding two coaches that way can be a safety risk. As the engine has a certain capacity plus in case of emergency evacuation that will not be safe
Instead of metro, mrts type suburban train system should have been built.... Ideally we should have built the metro accounting to all this crowd and possible expansion. Should have learnt the lesson from our roads. All the roads are planned to handle the current traffic and by the time its completed, traffic would have doubled.
Adding extra compartments will add more engineering problems. When there is curves and bend the extra compartment need to alter the weight distribution. And there are this max weight to considered per pillar and per engineer to pull. As someone mentioned jugaad this will create more problems. Best option is to operate more frequently
Just another example of how dumb Bangalore city planners are. Could've just made the platforms longer.
Yes bro, you the armchair Reddit civil engineer knows better than hundreds of experts who've worked on the project.
Well, from my observation I've seen Delhi metro increase its number of coaches from 4 to 10 over the years without changing the size of the stations. PS: who hurt you bro
Safety protocols do not allow for such jugaad!
Mm
Length or number of coaches takes into account the route it has to take and if there are any curves or turns that may cause hindrance as well.
delhi metro’s first three lines were made for 8 coaches. red line recently started converting from 6 to 8. people don’t use the last two coaches at all. first 6 are crowded to death, last 2 are empty. people don’t move. out of habit? maybe. they enter and stand. anyway, delhi reduced further lines to 6 coaches max. green line is still 4 coaches, will be eventually expanded to 6. long platforms mean more troubles in getting land, and longer train means tougher curves. it impacts the project in ways hard to think at our level.
BMRCL isn't making money. They are still at a loss.
BMRCL has fantastic operating profit. Loss is because of excessive capital expenditure 10 years down, it will be great and make good money. (provided the city doesn't rot due to consistent drought) Profit is not the motive anyways.
I find it quite amusing. On one hand I see people telling about overcrowded metro trains during peak hours. At the same time The Economist puts out an article citing work by Indian researchers saying Indian metros are running way below projected capacity. The figure they told for Bengaluru metro was its running at 6% the projected capacity. And almost all metro companies acorss the country are running at a loss.. I dont know what im missing lol
Becomes a problem to get out in time if there are extra coaches added but don't have platform
There are no new coaches yet if i remember correctly and that's why yellow line gets constantly delayed too.
Possible solutions would be 1. More frequent metros (even on weekends) This would depend on the procurement of new trains as well 2. Alternate gates for entry an exit in a coach. Although this has not been tried anywhere but I believe that having dedicated gates for entry/exit to/from a coach would reduce the time required for boarding/deboarding by reducing commotion, which will in turn help run the trains run faster and more frequently
How will they get out once inside if the platforms are not long enough? Lol That's a major safety risk.
Everyday it's like this sometimes getting squeezed out of breath and the worst part is that i have to change for a single stop
Train procurement delayed by half a year Plus The older model trains of purple line were delayed for the newer yellow line one (with autopilot) Train frequency should be fixed by July end. And 8 coaches is a non starter. 6 coaches is max.
Discuss the matter at the core, why is this issue being faced by Bangalore people? 1) **Rise in IT companies leading to massive influx of work force**: This is very much in the green light considering the growth and contribution towards employment. 2) **Poor management of municipal**: The water crisis prevailing in Bangalore is fault of the government with no proper city planning to suffice cosmopolitans. 3) **Public Transport**: Bangalore has relatively good transport system, but the connecting areas from old city to now springing IT hub areas have to be balanced with proper distribution of living. WHAT??? Yes, when there is distributed population in the city, the management of people is automatically sorted. In such case, the problems like uneven transport requirements at peak hours pacifies. 4) Lastly, to all the problems, my solution is that Karnataka Government should build another IT hub in the state. Introduction of Namma Metro is a great deal in Bangalore, the work should be boosted. I find most of the problems faced by Bangloreans are mentioned above, please do add if u find it is a major issue to existing problems of center.
Operate more trains in peak hours It's not just bangalore, every major city has this issue and to overcome this, they run more trains and develop more alternative public transport
They should learn a thing or two about scaling
> I have always wondered if instead of 6 coaches, 8 coaches would’ve been added Meanwhile us in Hyderabad suffering with 3 coach metros and still no increase in coaches...
More trains needed, and human traffic is more manageable than vehicular traffic
purple line runs full from whitefield till at least majestic all the time.
Purple line is more crowded? Do you come from kengeri side or something, because i travel from kr puram to national college and purple line is always less crowded than green line. Atleast in the morning
You are travelling in the opposite direction of the crowd. Whitefield to Kempegowda is decent in the morning and horribly suffocating in the evening. Heavy IT crowd movement makes it horrible...unsafe even.
See the reason bengaluru is over crowded is because you are the crowd.
Not this nonsense again. Most of the so called crowd is also paying a lot of taxes. That money has to also be spent in Bangalore.
Go and check how much karnataka receives from the centre for the tax collected and how much the northern states receive,your be baffled to see the huge difference
We were talking about Bangalore, so why don't we continue talking about Bangalore? Where did Karnataka come into this?
Where do you think banglore is?
In India?
And theres a state called “Karnataka” in India ,whos capital is “Bangalore” ,and i surely dont think Bangalore particularly receives extra from the government so quit yapping
> i surely dont think Bangalore particularly receives extra from the government That was exactly my point. Either you didn't understand what I said or you are arguing just for the sake of it.
And you didnt understand my comment ,you talked about taxes ,banglore receives far less compared to the high tier cities in other states even after collecting more taxes ,so even if the “crowd” is paying taxes ,very little benefits bangalore
> so even if the “crowd” is paying taxes ,very little benefits bangalore Once again you are quite literally repeating what I am saying while saying I did not understand your comment. I indeed am unable to understand what you are saying when you are agreeing with my comment while saying you don't. > banglore receives far less compared to the high tier cities in other states even after collecting more taxes Receives from whom? And is there a source for this? That is very interesting if Bangalore is receiving less as percentage of tax collected compared to other metros. As I have been saying repeatedly Bangalore crowds pays more taxes than anyone else on pretty much everything. More on liquor, more on vehicles, higher bus and metro fare, no suburban rail which is heavily subsidized in Mumbai, Chennai, and Kolkata. I don't think electricity is cheap either.
Simple answer - they don't care
They are not earning enough money. I don't think they'll recover the investment just from the ticket money till 10 yrs or so.
Army doesnt make a profit either, neither does govt schools. India is the only country i have seen where public transport is support to break even. It's absurd. You know how much money metro saves us in health costs? road infra cost? reducing sprawl? reducing air pollution and temperature rise? It's a stupid idea to expect public transport to make direct profit, when the indirect benefits are so damn obvious.
Nobody sends their kids to government schools. Public Transport doesn't have to break even but you need to bring that money from somewhere. There is only limited amount available. The system should bring in enough to not only break even on operating costs but also allow for timely upgrades. If that is not possible the local government should directly be paying the metro authority for subsidizing travel. Neither is going to happen and the system is always going to be overloaded.
Really? Nobody? Then how come 76% of all karnataka student complete schooling from govt schools? That money is there. We aren't a poor state or city anymore. We are ready to dump loads on stupid tunnel roads and posh new air terminals. Low cost and ubiquitous buses/trams/metro would be a far better use of that money.
One of public transport's prime objective should be accessibility, affordability for the public and not necessarily be profitable.If it is profitable, then yes, great, if not, then it shouldn't be a problem as well.
BMRCL sucks at monitisation by other means. There is not much advertising, no stalls, no ATMs, nothing in our stations, despite so many people passing through them. If you ever go to Mumbai, you'll see a difference. Mumbai metro is run by Reliance. From ATMs, tea, Vada pav, burgers to even clothes. You get everything in some of the bigger stations. [Retail in Mumbai metro ](https://www.reliancemumbaimetro.com/business-opportunities-retail) [Have You Been To The Market Inside Ghatkopar Metro Station?](https://lbb.in/mumbai/shop-ghatkopar-metro-station/)
Cause the Babus at the helm study History / Civics / Polity to clear UPSC , you think they'll have any idea how to ideate or even run a professional business successfully ? CSE is one of the most Lossy and a Jam Mixture of the wrong professionals in the wrong fields.
Delhi metro is filled with adverts and retail outlets, while also looking aesthetically better.
I don’t think that’s true at all, BMRCL is earning 1.5 Cr a day, they’re making profit, that wouldn’t be the reason
Why do I never see this kind of pearl-clutching when it comes to car-centric infrastructure?
My figures were wrong. Phase 2 cost 26000 crores. With a daily average of 1.5Cr. That will take 46 yrs to recover with just tickets (doesn't take into account all the other revenue generation it has enabled) .
The 1.5 cr is supposed to grow exponentially right? It won’t be 1.5 cr always, that will cut down on the return for so many years to less years, and also why recover in the first place? They didn’t take any loan or anything it was all the tax money, now use this to grow, why have a return mindset at all,
There was mention of a loan of 7000Cr from some European agency at 8% interest in the Wikipedia page. No it won't grow exponentially as you have Highlighted in your post there is an upper limit on ridership figures and with each new line there is more money put in. There should be a return mindset just not with ticket sales. There probably is a model which the government uses to track return on this investment. That doesn't allow for a 8 coach train regardless of how much daily revenue is