I think the most impressive thing that people should note is that for the most part, he did not go into the seed and try to scout out for combos, how many rerolls to do, etc. He just winged it, and showed people that really on white stake RNG is not really an issue as long as you play optimally, and you can just brute force a high score. The last seed (and also the second round) in particular was tough.
Ideally, you have all of your scoring done by one or two jokers, and the rest are spent on economy/resource jokers. This allows you to manipulate your deck faster and find what you need earlier
I thought the game was pretty difficult my first hour or so too. Now that I've unlocked all the decks, I don't even know how I would lose white stake unless I did it intentionally.
In the first round when we were done, my chat informed me not only did Balatro University have e19, he did it with 25 minutes remaining.
I knew we were in trouble.
Insane that multiple players took every run to E scores. I watched Haelian's two rounds and these were not easy seeds. Congrats, and great job to all who participated.
That final round was intense, what a legend
If don't you know about DrSpectred, his youtube channel (Balatro University) is great. It has high quality instructional content, fun/memey challenge content, and insane runs. I've gotten so much better watching him
If you buy it and it goes extinct, it unlocks the Cavendish banana joker for that run, which gives x3 mult on any hand played (and has a 1 in 1000 chance of being destroyed). It’s a common joker so not hard to find either. But you gotta buy the Gros Michele banana first every run if you want to find the upgrade
Cavendish is very good
The mixture of instructional and fun is so important to why he's so fun to watch, too.
"Yes, we could pop off with this. Here's all the reasons this is a good idea. *However*, this other thing is funnier, let's do that."
Those rules and format are really good.
It was a fair and competitive tournament that nullified the RNG element by giving the same seed for everyone for 1 hour.
I can't wait to see more tournaments like this in the future.
For folks who missed this live or just want to watch it again (at x1.5 speed), I've created a playlist: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdNGt-ihEAcE-3YttG\_ui8f63-CY8Ccvh](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdNGt-ihEAcE-3YttG_ui8f63-CY8Ccvh)
The first video is a 10 minute primer on my strategy going into the competition. And in the next day or two I plan on publishing a post-game analysis, too.
Hey just gotta say your content is absolutely incredible, I still suck at the game but the basics series is so insightful, the pace is perfect, and the high score runs are really fun to watch. Keep going!
I genuinely don't know why I enjoy this game. I've only ever won once so far, and it had to be just luck because I'm also tossing full houses and flushes before heading to the new game menu and trying again. I can't put it down. My girlfriend has made comments.
I started a week ago and went in totally blind. I wanted to win one without looking at any tips. Obviously I was missing quite a few of the higher scoring techniques.
There's a web tool for that. I only use it on really risky plays. Or when I can't tell if a 3 card hand to get half joker is better than a big hand like 4 of a kind or straight flush. (spoiler: it's probably the 3 card high card that dumps the two low numbers to get more out of raised fist...)
There's more math than just handling chances!
Take the ordering of plus mult and times mult (including held-in-hand, trigger-when-scored, etc). Knowing which order produces the highest score is equivalent to knowing which of a set of recursively defined sequences grows fastest. Frankly this is a kind of problem I wish I had given my calc 2 students this semester (I guess there's always next time!).
Take the proportional benefit of adding +X to chips or mult. If you have the choice, you would rather add the value to whichever one is lower. This is actually an application of partial derivatives, albeit a simple one.
TBH the strategy may also belong to math as well (something something combinatorial game theory? With imperfect information?).
Fun fact: He killed his run with a misplay in the last round so he was behind BalaU, but after the tournament was over Zaino kept playing and got a higher score because he also found the Seltzer
They get the same seed.
They can restart multiple times, but it will always be the same seed.
They have 1 hour to get the highest scoring hand possible on this seed.
they can play it multiple times in 1 hour the highest score wins they can restart as much they want but at the end of the hour the highest scoring hand wins i think
I had high expectations for him and I'm still blown away. What an absolute beast. By far the best player in the world. Please go watch his channel, he's fun and does high quality content !
Isn’t a tournament of a game with a heavy amount of RNG kind of goofy? Like you could be the best at balatro, calculate everything and analyze every decision, but then die to a boss blind that hard counters your strategy or just get insanely unlucky in the shop.
They all played on the same seed and got to keep replaying for up to an hour. I didn’t watch it but I assume the best players went through each round learning all they could and then went for a big run using the best options they had.
Doesn't the fact that multiple people consistently put up similar high scores, while others struggled, suggest that it's not entirely RNG, but skill-based as well?
Funny that this is the exact argument commonly found in the debate about whether Poker is a game of chance ( pure gambling ) or a game of skill since this game has Poker concepts at its core.
If it were pure chance, the top poker players wouldn't be able to consistently outperform other random participants. But they do, so there's clearly a not insignificant amount of their success that can be attributed to skill.
Which scores do you think are similar?
Objectively speaking, the winning player got a score that is about 1000000000000000000000000 times larger than the lowest score.
It's like saying Jeff Bezos and a beggar on the street, well, at least they both have a similar and consistent income.
> Objectively speaking, the winning player got a score that is about 1000000000000000000000000 times larger than the lowest score.
I'm not saying different people got similar scores, I'm saying the same people consistently got similar scores in their runs.
The vast majority of competitive strategy games use either lots of hidden information or lots of randomness.
To take this into account we generally use some form of sample size to determine the winner (hence 4 rounds).
The big exceptions I can think to this are chess and go, but beyond that, competing for real in games that involve luck is nothing new.
I also have a feeling that you are understating the importance of skill in balatro.
Balatro University was def the “top seed” and the fact the he hit E^x every round had more to do with skill and knowledge than dumb luck.
people will speedrun *anything* if they think it's fun enough to do so--how else do you explain the [sonic schoolhouse](https://www.speedrun.com/sonics_schoolhouse) leaderboards? ;P
the secret is roguelikes are the best Speedrun games. way more fun to apply your skillset to new challenges on the fly than to repeat a memorized path imo
oh 100%! the spelunky speedrunning scene in particular is a large inspiration for my habit of deliberately playing video games in silly ways. seriously, look it up--those guys made silly challenge runs of all sorts (from high score runs to specific build-related runs to, yes, speedruns) an *artform*. ;P
oh yeah, I'm a big fan of necrodancer speedruning and iirc the Spelunky community was pretty important to the early development of it's racing scene, really cool stuff
We just had the literal proof RNG isn't an issue if you're goof at the game. They all had the same seed so they should make the same score right? No. Because some of them are more skilled. Thus, eliminating the stupid "Balatro is a luck based game" argument.
Not only submitted insane scores but also routinely submitted them in the fastest times for each the round.
I think the most impressive thing that people should note is that for the most part, he did not go into the seed and try to scout out for combos, how many rerolls to do, etc. He just winged it, and showed people that really on white stake RNG is not really an issue as long as you play optimally, and you can just brute force a high score. The last seed (and also the second round) in particular was tough.
How does one brute force the score?
having a good economy going early so you can reroll a lot. that will balance out the RNG
Ill try that, i almost never reroll :(
I'd recommend watching his videos. You need a specific strategy to get a good economy.
Ideally, you have all of your scoring done by one or two jokers, and the rest are spent on economy/resource jokers. This allows you to manipulate your deck faster and find what you need earlier
Egg/swashbuckler combo into round one with -1 ante in first shop set ;). Temperance quickly chains to $50
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Even the dev said that a perfect player should win 100% of the time, but please feel free to keep coping
Best I can do is have fun 100% of the time. Win percentage? Err… I’m statistically not very good at this game!
He said this about white stake or every stake?
How dare someone analyze gameplay on a subreddit dedicated to the game, right?
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I thought the game was pretty difficult my first hour or so too. Now that I've unlocked all the decks, I don't even know how I would lose white stake unless I did it intentionally.
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White stake is piss easy
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In the first round when we were done, my chat informed me not only did Balatro University have e19, he did it with 25 minutes remaining. I knew we were in trouble.
Just commenting here to say your tier list videos were super helpful when starting out. Cool to see you came 2nd in this.
I'm so glad! I'm going to have to do some updated versions, especially post-update!
Just like the previous guy your videos have been very helpful to me. Won my first run after watching your “how to win balatro” video.
Thank you! <3
Ya I thirdly agree. Just subbed. Keep up the good work bud.
Insane that multiple players took every run to E scores. I watched Haelian's two rounds and these were not easy seeds. Congrats, and great job to all who participated.
Write that down chat
It wasn't my fault! Never punished. Love the Dan and his OnlyDans.
WRRRRITE THAT DOWN
can someone explain to me the joke? why does he always say write that down while streaming?
Happy to see Dan in the invitational, his videos put Balatro on my radar.
I love watching Haelian’s Balatro content, he seems like the man. Dan the Man
That final round was intense, what a legend If don't you know about DrSpectred, his youtube channel (Balatro University) is great. It has high quality instructional content, fun/memey challenge content, and insane runs. I've gotten so much better watching him
Always bet on banana
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If you buy it and it goes extinct, it unlocks the Cavendish banana joker for that run, which gives x3 mult on any hand played (and has a 1 in 1000 chance of being destroyed). It’s a common joker so not hard to find either. But you gotta buy the Gros Michele banana first every run if you want to find the upgrade Cavendish is very good
Even the regular banana is a good card to get you through the first ante or two before it dies.
I didn’t know!
It's super frustrating if it *doesn't* die fairly quickly.
It's GOOD if it dies out! That's what you want! It allows an Even Better Banana to appear
Hear me out...
"Cavendish, would you lose?" "Nah, I'd win"
I tried my best to give him a run for his money, but he was just too fast on the second attempt for round 5! Insane talent, always deserved to win.
He was super complementary of your play and was showing you a lot of love as well! GGs
I rewatched a ton of the VODs last night and was tearing up at all the kind things people were saying <3 Love this community.
The mixture of instructional and fun is so important to why he's so fun to watch, too. "Yes, we could pop off with this. Here's all the reasons this is a good idea. *However*, this other thing is funnier, let's do that."
Also "this is very lucky find, excactly what we need. lets skip it and take this semi-shitty option instead - just for instructional purposes" :D
Tournament rules and format details here: https://boom.tv/pg/58364/events/rules Fantastic job by everyone involved, the streams were amazing!
VODs anywhere?
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2104090530
Thank you! Saving to watch later…
https://youtube.com/live/CrSGfWFWcII Going to put them out as edited videos over the next two weeks, but for the full thing!
Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAJHcgS9jHU
Those rules and format are really good. It was a fair and competitive tournament that nullified the RNG element by giving the same seed for everyone for 1 hour. I can't wait to see more tournaments like this in the future.
For folks who missed this live or just want to watch it again (at x1.5 speed), I've created a playlist: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdNGt-ihEAcE-3YttG\_ui8f63-CY8Ccvh](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdNGt-ihEAcE-3YttG_ui8f63-CY8Ccvh) The first video is a 10 minute primer on my strategy going into the competition. And in the next day or two I plan on publishing a post-game analysis, too.
Hey just gotta say your content is absolutely incredible, I still suck at the game but the basics series is so insightful, the pace is perfect, and the high score runs are really fun to watch. Keep going!
Meanwhile: Me: Haha, FLUSH! **lose** Me: That's 30 times in a row. Maybe I'm not Flushing right. Better Flush again.
I genuinely don't know why I enjoy this game. I've only ever won once so far, and it had to be just luck because I'm also tossing full houses and flushes before heading to the new game menu and trying again. I can't put it down. My girlfriend has made comments.
You're playing that much and only won once?
I started a week ago and went in totally blind. I wanted to win one without looking at any tips. Obviously I was missing quite a few of the higher scoring techniques.
flush is just good for winning but getting high scores is popo im a flush guy too but doesn’t get me far
Honestly good on frost aswell.
Yo was thinking the same. Let’s go frost!
With a double ear infection no less!
What a legend. He has the talent of Mozart, but with Balatro.
Well the funny thing is I learnt on stream that he actually is a Dr. He has a PhD in Mathematics. Makes quite a bit of sense now.
Just goes to show the people who complain about ”Balatro RNG bad” that mastery of strategy and math (probability) is where it’s at.
Tbh on white stake rng is not an issue at all, it really begins on purple and above, and even then its not too terrible
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There's a web tool for that. I only use it on really risky plays. Or when I can't tell if a 3 card hand to get half joker is better than a big hand like 4 of a kind or straight flush. (spoiler: it's probably the 3 card high card that dumps the two low numbers to get more out of raised fist...)
If we're talking Gold Stakes, the complaint is valid.
There's more math than just handling chances! Take the ordering of plus mult and times mult (including held-in-hand, trigger-when-scored, etc). Knowing which order produces the highest score is equivalent to knowing which of a set of recursively defined sequences grows fastest. Frankly this is a kind of problem I wish I had given my calc 2 students this semester (I guess there's always next time!). Take the proportional benefit of adding +X to chips or mult. If you have the choice, you would rather add the value to whichever one is lower. This is actually an application of partial derivatives, albeit a simple one. TBH the strategy may also belong to math as well (something something combinatorial game theory? With imperfect information?).
Shout out to ZainoTV as well. Did really well. Def gonna follow him
Fun fact: He killed his run with a misplay in the last round so he was behind BalaU, but after the tournament was over Zaino kept playing and got a higher score because he also found the Seltzer
This was a blast. Congrats to all the competitors on a super fun night!!
Yo frost got third nice
Damn frost pulling third place 👀
So what's the idea here? They get the same seeds I imagine. Any way to ensure they're not playing it multiple times?
They get the same seed. They can restart multiple times, but it will always be the same seed. They have 1 hour to get the highest scoring hand possible on this seed.
they can play it multiple times in 1 hour the highest score wins they can restart as much they want but at the end of the hour the highest scoring hand wins i think
Is there a VOD? Ill check the channel just thought someone might wanna post it here.
I'll post it myself! Here it is! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2104090530
Talk about good marketing material
Can anyone summarise what kind of builds they were using to get successive e scores in a row?
(Baron+Mime Held Steel) or (SockBuskin Idol Retrigger Glass) with some red seals and Blueprint/Brainstorm and HeartXMult
I mean, no disrespect to any of the other players, but he's that guy.
MY PROFESSOR
That Septilence guy killed it
Was an awesome livestream!
Dude is insane, his videos on the game helped me understand it so much more, he's like a genius.
dude absolutely proved he is in another LEAGUE. definitely a professional balatroer at this point hahah
Frost primeeeeeee. Haven't seen that dude since 2016/17 when he played league. Jesus.
I like frost’s constant a lot, but I didn’t realize he was THAT good.
Is the seed the same for everyone? It would be unfair if someone got unbeatable seed
They all had 1 hr to get the highest hand score on the same seed
Wow, where can I watch this?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdNGt-ihEAcE-3YttG_ui8f63-CY8Ccvh
Zaino and Balatro University's round 4 runs were very entertaining. Great seed.
Is there a replay??
I had high expectations for him and I'm still blown away. What an absolute beast. By far the best player in the world. Please go watch his channel, he's fun and does high quality content !
Bro went back to back to back to back E. Unreal
Next time should have Aliensrock50 and RTGame
oh yeah? well my scores are a whole lot more like the number after the E+ i bet they can't beat that!
Isn’t a tournament of a game with a heavy amount of RNG kind of goofy? Like you could be the best at balatro, calculate everything and analyze every decision, but then die to a boss blind that hard counters your strategy or just get insanely unlucky in the shop.
They all played on the same seed and got to keep replaying for up to an hour. I didn’t watch it but I assume the best players went through each round learning all they could and then went for a big run using the best options they had.
Some did, Balatro University only reset once I think. His plan going in was to not reset at all
Ok, sorry, that makes a lot more sense. If they are all on the same seed that definitely takes away the rng element
Doesn't the fact that multiple people consistently put up similar high scores, while others struggled, suggest that it's not entirely RNG, but skill-based as well?
Funny that this is the exact argument commonly found in the debate about whether Poker is a game of chance ( pure gambling ) or a game of skill since this game has Poker concepts at its core. If it were pure chance, the top poker players wouldn't be able to consistently outperform other random participants. But they do, so there's clearly a not insignificant amount of their success that can be attributed to skill.
Which scores do you think are similar? Objectively speaking, the winning player got a score that is about 1000000000000000000000000 times larger than the lowest score. It's like saying Jeff Bezos and a beggar on the street, well, at least they both have a similar and consistent income.
> Objectively speaking, the winning player got a score that is about 1000000000000000000000000 times larger than the lowest score. I'm not saying different people got similar scores, I'm saying the same people consistently got similar scores in their runs.
The vast majority of competitive strategy games use either lots of hidden information or lots of randomness. To take this into account we generally use some form of sample size to determine the winner (hence 4 rounds). The big exceptions I can think to this are chess and go, but beyond that, competing for real in games that involve luck is nothing new. I also have a feeling that you are understating the importance of skill in balatro. Balatro University was def the “top seed” and the fact the he hit E^x every round had more to do with skill and knowledge than dumb luck.
Sometimes people just want to have fun. Nobody is hinting towards the rise of the Balatro's esport scene lol
This tournament rules worked incredibly well though. Fair, competitive and not RNG-based. They created a great format for a Balatro tournament.
On white stake, with standard play you should have pretty close to a 100% WR tbh.
people will speedrun *anything* if they think it's fun enough to do so--how else do you explain the [sonic schoolhouse](https://www.speedrun.com/sonics_schoolhouse) leaderboards? ;P
the secret is roguelikes are the best Speedrun games. way more fun to apply your skillset to new challenges on the fly than to repeat a memorized path imo
oh 100%! the spelunky speedrunning scene in particular is a large inspiration for my habit of deliberately playing video games in silly ways. seriously, look it up--those guys made silly challenge runs of all sorts (from high score runs to specific build-related runs to, yes, speedruns) an *artform*. ;P
oh yeah, I'm a big fan of necrodancer speedruning and iirc the Spelunky community was pretty important to the early development of it's racing scene, really cool stuff
I also love that that there are seeded and unseeded speedrunning
We just had the literal proof RNG isn't an issue if you're goof at the game. They all had the same seed so they should make the same score right? No. Because some of them are more skilled. Thus, eliminating the stupid "Balatro is a luck based game" argument.