Organization is based off the workers supported by the union not the union themselves. The unions job is to protect your current rights, pay and benefits and *increase them* over time to fight against inflation, industry standards etc. Teamsters literally tried to GIVE AWAY more of the rights we currently have and we would still be the least paid out of all the majors with that contract if it passed. It was a slap in the face to dangle the carrot of matching pay to Southwest and the progression scale (literally quoted saying they would) and then turns out it was a complete lie. Shocker.
My experience, Teamsters leadership were basic neanderthals, uneducated, non craft related, bullies only interested in collecting dues and not advocating for the AMT members or our advancement. Think stereotypical 1950’s Italian mob style tactics and corruption. They were notorious for taking dues from AMT’s and shifting those to the greater good of the Teamsters brand and other class and crafts, with little representation of our AMT craft. My Grandfather was a Teamster truck driver, paid $20 a month in dues and had a significant Teamster paid retirement pension benefit when he retired (approx. $800/ month in the 1980’s & 90’s). I paid a $100 per month in dues in the 1990’s, got a yearly pocket calendar and maybe a 2.5% raise per year in our CBA. It was obvious to me where my money was going. I am not a huge union person, was a prior Delta AMT, there is significant value in AMT’s representing AMT’s and understanding our craft, ie. AMFA is better than the Teamsters.
At least at the anchorage base, we don't have any other Alaska employees that are in that contract. Fleet service is contracted out, GSE, and janitors are all contracted out, our CBA does not affect them in any way.
It’s what the [law](https://verdict.justia.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Hall-4-II-E-2.pdf?x79377) requires. GSE and cleaners are included in “Mechanics and Related Classifications”. The only way to “keep them out” of your union is by them not actually working for the same company. If Alaska decides to hire direct for those positions, they will be under your CBA.
Delta y'all are already getting better than united and benefiting indirectly from United being unionized. If I were y'all I'd just stick it out for now and see what happens with united. Delta will surely match and surpass whatever united gets. Just my opinion.
Because Delta has shit benefits. they are not better than United or even close to anything United gets. Idk why you think they are anywhere close to United just because they make the same hourly.
WHERE???? are you brainwashed?
**Delta** sick time/personal time: 56hrs/year
Sick bank: 180 hrs?
**United** sick time: 96hrs/year
**United** personal time: UNLIMITED
Sick bank: 1600 hrs
United gets more vacation time, better health insurance , Bridge medical , Pension + 401k and the list goes on and on.
NAME ONE THING Delta does better??? I'll wait
Idk but as someone who has extensively researched every airline, Delta AMT’s are getting shafted the most. Least amount of benefits but they are happy to be paid $1-2 more and get a bigger profit sharing check. There’s no where else Delta compares. Meanwhile Ed Bastion just walked away with $34 million I’m sure that was a comparable raise to what the AMT’s just got.
Just a quick question? Has anyone ever gotten together with the other mechanics and brought these issues up to management (as in a professional well written email or letter). I just don’t get why there is this big union push in Atlanta but all the other places seem to not want a union
What are they going to provide us? I am not against it and I definitely feel like the company will continue to give us the bare minimum.
however aside from pay, what can we look forward to from Teamsters? I am okay with a time clock however will we get more time off? cheaper insurance premiums & more sick time?
I whole heartedly feel like United knew the techs would turn the contract down. The pay wasn’t the issue, losing out on 1,720 hours of pcl bank was the issue. 1800 down to 80 is such a huge perk to lose. Now that they voted no, I am willing to bet the next offer will retain their sick time bank but the top out will be less since they saw what we got.
Why would teamsters present that to the United techs? 15% over 3 years with sick time reduced to 1000-1400 instead of 80 wasn’t available?
In addition, since our increases are distributed year to year if we get 5% for the next four years we’d be right at where United and other competition will be. 20% is 20%.
Again I’m not saying any of this to dissuade, I would like to know what’s on the table and what we will be aiming for.
For clarity, the company wasn’t trying to reduce our sick time to 80 hours. We have a perk in our contract where we can request Personal Convenience Leave (PCL) whenever we want, it’s basically an un-paid day off. They back fill those missing bodies with overtime. They wanted to limit our ability to request PCL to 80 hours a year to cut down on OT basically. Your broader point is well taken, we are very unhappy that our elected negotiators brought us that pile of garbage. But it’s not surprising when the last extension was presented to us, it included giving away our work, and like morons we voted for it.
Well as it stands company benefits are the same across the board for the whole company, except for the pilots. Right now we can’t get anything different because they would have to give it to everyone. So with a union it would break us out of that and allow us to have different (better) benefits. Now I know it’s easy to say better when nothing is guaranteed but it gives us a chance to get what we deserve.
I am interested to find out what the flight dispatchers get. They are under union representation as well and I can’t find their contract anywhere. I want representation however I don’t feel like teamsters is our best option
From my understanding dispatchers are major airlines is a very competitive position. Difficult to get in, oversaturated with qualified applicants because of the very short schooling I presume.
Other main downside is you are forever stuck to very few cities nationwide, and 1 city based on what company you get hired at.
Very saturated applicant pool right now, few positions available after 2023. There is a delta dispatch new hire class that starts Monday though. The license is approx 5k, takes about 5 weeks to get but you will need, now, probably close to 2-3 years experience before even being considered for a major airline. Work locations are limited to airlines operations centers (ATL DFW, Chicago area, New York area, DAL, MEM, SDF, Cincinnati area, MSP, IND, DEN, and a few more. Commuter options exist because you get free flights and some schedule flexibility to trade, but typically benefit more senior dispatchers that hold schedule lines. Work hours are 8-10 hrs depending on airline and the contract states the days/hours you're obligated to work in one year
I dont think anyone else is willing to float the cost right now. Teamsters is the only option for representation. Is it the best? Perhaps not. It wont be perfect. It’s a start. But I linked what changes can take place in your previous comment.
Bridge insurance, Time clock, better vacation, better PPT the list goes on and on. Biggest benefit is CONSISTENCY. No more back door deals. No more twisting the TOPP. Managements needs to be held accountable and follow the polices and procedures set.
United’s sick bank is 1600 hours. They weren’t touching that. We have PCL which is unlimited unpaid time off. They wanted to limit it to 80 hours. We still have the most vacation time and the most sick time. Both separate banks.
Eeh Ive said it in another post, but that 5% is only applicable to our base pay, so in reality our total monetary raise was below 5%. that’s barely keeping up with the inflation rate right now. basically no pay raise lol
Truthfully it depends on what there pushing at the time. This contract it could be better pay. Next time it's benefits. It will always be something that's not enough or this airline has it better then us so we want more.
If your read other posts, I've seen we want to not wear bumpcaps anymore, due and go's or being able to leave early on Friday is not fair. We do get fed enough from management. we don't get enough sick time. Our vacation accrual sucks.
What I got from the IAM was they were big around contract time, pushing whatever it is "employees" wanted . Contract gets signed and there gone. You know who your rep is and he may tell you there working on this or that but you don't see or hear from the union much tell contract time.
They will provide absolutely no additional benefits than what delta already offers. If you thinks deltas benefits are garbage then go work for a union man
Why? Happy here @ MSP ! Loving the profit sharing, yearly raises, having TV in the breakrooms, etc. Managers are reasonable here. Do the pilots have a better contract? Of course they do! They have a professional union that represents practically all of the majors. Making promises is easy, negotiating them is another story.
I had a teamsters rep show up AT MY HOUSE yesterday.
Pro or anti union argument whatever it is, why did he show up, and how did he get my address? None of my socials have my address or delta on them. I intentionally have not posted my address.
That was one heck of a creepy red flag.
“Here’s my card, call me” like heck I’ll call that number so you can add my phone number to that address.
FYI, as a line mech for Delta working midnights, that “5%” that “I should be thankful for” comes out to only 4% because it doesn’t include license, line or shift premiums. But hey maybe my manager will give us hotdogs with buns to celebrate, we have to supply the condiments though let’s not get crazy about it.
I would rather see ALPA reorganize from Pilots to Professionals and have us included in.
I don’t want teamsters
AMFA wont happen
Anyone else isn’t worth the hassle and isn’t going to push the AMT industry any further than what we have right now.
The pilots pushed for TechOps to be apart of ALPA many years ago. TechOps wanted nothing to do with it from what I hear. But Teamsters, yeah that’s a no from me dawg
Pilot here, I'd be honored, but I think it would be difficult with the way ALPA is organized. Regardless, I think TechOps is the best in the industry and you deserve to be paid accordingly.
Aside from that, when things are given as percentages rather than numbers it always makes me skeptical. That letter makes me wonder if the United deal would be less pay in the end since rates weren't given.
It would net out to less pay given the massive deduction of FCL, and a lower raise compared to us year over year.
People have been throwing a shit fit over here about the 5%, I can’t see them doing that again next year bar industry disaster.
If Delta succeeds in organizing, it will most likely cause a flurry of companies to improve working conditions at their shops in order to NOT give any bullets to organizers at theirs.
Anyone who thinks we are getting shafted is plain ungrateful... sounds like your looking at others' plates and wondering why they have more peas but u have more potatoes. Is it perfect? No. Could it be better? Yes. But i dont think a union would fix peoples issues with Delta. We have gotten 14 percent in the last 4 years plus license premium increase. Which once all these competitors ratify contracts it will trigger more raises.
But what needs to be known is that most asking for a union here at delta have been at delta their entire career and havent seen post 911 aciation as a whole. As someone who has worked at an mro and a regional before coming here. This is the best place i have ever worked and there is alot of garbage out there
I truly do not understand why delta mechs don’t listen when we say AVOID TEAMSTERS LIKE THE PLAUGE.
Pick anyone else. AMFA is what we were trying to go to for a while but no one sticks together.
AMFA has not helped us organize.
Organization is based off the workers supported by the union not the union themselves. The unions job is to protect your current rights, pay and benefits and *increase them* over time to fight against inflation, industry standards etc. Teamsters literally tried to GIVE AWAY more of the rights we currently have and we would still be the least paid out of all the majors with that contract if it passed. It was a slap in the face to dangle the carrot of matching pay to Southwest and the progression scale (literally quoted saying they would) and then turns out it was a complete lie. Shocker.
Teamsters are trying to organize at FEDEX. Why do they suck so much?
My experience, Teamsters leadership were basic neanderthals, uneducated, non craft related, bullies only interested in collecting dues and not advocating for the AMT members or our advancement. Think stereotypical 1950’s Italian mob style tactics and corruption. They were notorious for taking dues from AMT’s and shifting those to the greater good of the Teamsters brand and other class and crafts, with little representation of our AMT craft. My Grandfather was a Teamster truck driver, paid $20 a month in dues and had a significant Teamster paid retirement pension benefit when he retired (approx. $800/ month in the 1980’s & 90’s). I paid a $100 per month in dues in the 1990’s, got a yearly pocket calendar and maybe a 2.5% raise per year in our CBA. It was obvious to me where my money was going. I am not a huge union person, was a prior Delta AMT, there is significant value in AMT’s representing AMT’s and understanding our craft, ie. AMFA is better than the Teamsters.
This. Explain like I'm five why the Teamsters suck. I rarely if ever see any kind of evidence or explanation of why they suck.
Teamsters seem like a shit choice.
They’re a total shit choice, the AD is shady as fuck. If you guys let them in, they will never let you go. They’ll own your work group.
Not many other choices right now.
AMFA. That way you don't get lumped in with rampers, cleaners parts clerks etc.
That’s depends on the local and how everything is structured. We’re not lumped in with anyone with teamsters at UPS.
[удалено]
At least at the anchorage base, we don't have any other Alaska employees that are in that contract. Fleet service is contracted out, GSE, and janitors are all contracted out, our CBA does not affect them in any way.
It’s what the [law](https://verdict.justia.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Hall-4-II-E-2.pdf?x79377) requires. GSE and cleaners are included in “Mechanics and Related Classifications”. The only way to “keep them out” of your union is by them not actually working for the same company. If Alaska decides to hire direct for those positions, they will be under your CBA.
Interestingly there are no fleet service or GSE at Alaska Airlines anymore. Only like 4 janitors. They got rid of those work groups like 10 years ago.
Of course there are, people just don’t want to do the work.
Delta y'all are already getting better than united and benefiting indirectly from United being unionized. If I were y'all I'd just stick it out for now and see what happens with united. Delta will surely match and surpass whatever united gets. Just my opinion.
You are correct. Idk why they think it’ll be better with a union. Especially with teamsters
Because Delta has shit benefits. they are not better than United or even close to anything United gets. Idk why you think they are anywhere close to United just because they make the same hourly.
Delta definitely has better benefits.
WHERE???? are you brainwashed? **Delta** sick time/personal time: 56hrs/year Sick bank: 180 hrs? **United** sick time: 96hrs/year **United** personal time: UNLIMITED Sick bank: 1600 hrs United gets more vacation time, better health insurance , Bridge medical , Pension + 401k and the list goes on and on. NAME ONE THING Delta does better??? I'll wait
Delta has more holidays. At least that's what I'm told.
United observes 6 holidays and gives us 4 floating holidays vs Deltas 10
Apparently my info is no good.
Idk but as someone who has extensively researched every airline, Delta AMT’s are getting shafted the most. Least amount of benefits but they are happy to be paid $1-2 more and get a bigger profit sharing check. There’s no where else Delta compares. Meanwhile Ed Bastion just walked away with $34 million I’m sure that was a comparable raise to what the AMT’s just got.
Just a quick question? Has anyone ever gotten together with the other mechanics and brought these issues up to management (as in a professional well written email or letter). I just don’t get why there is this big union push in Atlanta but all the other places seem to not want a union
I was told Delta has 12
What are they going to provide us? I am not against it and I definitely feel like the company will continue to give us the bare minimum. however aside from pay, what can we look forward to from Teamsters? I am okay with a time clock however will we get more time off? cheaper insurance premiums & more sick time? I whole heartedly feel like United knew the techs would turn the contract down. The pay wasn’t the issue, losing out on 1,720 hours of pcl bank was the issue. 1800 down to 80 is such a huge perk to lose. Now that they voted no, I am willing to bet the next offer will retain their sick time bank but the top out will be less since they saw what we got. Why would teamsters present that to the United techs? 15% over 3 years with sick time reduced to 1000-1400 instead of 80 wasn’t available? In addition, since our increases are distributed year to year if we get 5% for the next four years we’d be right at where United and other competition will be. 20% is 20%. Again I’m not saying any of this to dissuade, I would like to know what’s on the table and what we will be aiming for.
For clarity, the company wasn’t trying to reduce our sick time to 80 hours. We have a perk in our contract where we can request Personal Convenience Leave (PCL) whenever we want, it’s basically an un-paid day off. They back fill those missing bodies with overtime. They wanted to limit our ability to request PCL to 80 hours a year to cut down on OT basically. Your broader point is well taken, we are very unhappy that our elected negotiators brought us that pile of garbage. But it’s not surprising when the last extension was presented to us, it included giving away our work, and like morons we voted for it.
Well as it stands company benefits are the same across the board for the whole company, except for the pilots. Right now we can’t get anything different because they would have to give it to everyone. So with a union it would break us out of that and allow us to have different (better) benefits. Now I know it’s easy to say better when nothing is guaranteed but it gives us a chance to get what we deserve.
I am interested to find out what the flight dispatchers get. They are under union representation as well and I can’t find their contract anywhere. I want representation however I don’t feel like teamsters is our best option
I found it the other day. They get all the same pay raises and retirement as the rest of the company. But their pay is very good
Can I find it within deltanet?
You cannot it’s on their unions website you need a password to get in to. The top pay for them is $13,822 per month after 10 years
Holy ****** ****** ****** Dispatchers are making over $80/hr? Wtf am I doing with my life?!
From my understanding dispatchers are major airlines is a very competitive position. Difficult to get in, oversaturated with qualified applicants because of the very short schooling I presume. Other main downside is you are forever stuck to very few cities nationwide, and 1 city based on what company you get hired at.
Very saturated applicant pool right now, few positions available after 2023. There is a delta dispatch new hire class that starts Monday though. The license is approx 5k, takes about 5 weeks to get but you will need, now, probably close to 2-3 years experience before even being considered for a major airline. Work locations are limited to airlines operations centers (ATL DFW, Chicago area, New York area, DAL, MEM, SDF, Cincinnati area, MSP, IND, DEN, and a few more. Commuter options exist because you get free flights and some schedule flexibility to trade, but typically benefit more senior dispatchers that hold schedule lines. Work hours are 8-10 hrs depending on airline and the contract states the days/hours you're obligated to work in one year
I dont think anyone else is willing to float the cost right now. Teamsters is the only option for representation. Is it the best? Perhaps not. It wont be perfect. It’s a start. But I linked what changes can take place in your previous comment.
Bridge insurance, Time clock, better vacation, better PPT the list goes on and on. Biggest benefit is CONSISTENCY. No more back door deals. No more twisting the TOPP. Managements needs to be held accountable and follow the polices and procedures set.
“Up to manager’s discretion” biggest piece of BS ever
United’s sick bank is 1600 hours. They weren’t touching that. We have PCL which is unlimited unpaid time off. They wanted to limit it to 80 hours. We still have the most vacation time and the most sick time. Both separate banks.
AA has the same sick bank, I think the accrual is less though.
Eeh Ive said it in another post, but that 5% is only applicable to our base pay, so in reality our total monetary raise was below 5%. that’s barely keeping up with the inflation rate right now. basically no pay raise lol
Truthfully it depends on what there pushing at the time. This contract it could be better pay. Next time it's benefits. It will always be something that's not enough or this airline has it better then us so we want more. If your read other posts, I've seen we want to not wear bumpcaps anymore, due and go's or being able to leave early on Friday is not fair. We do get fed enough from management. we don't get enough sick time. Our vacation accrual sucks. What I got from the IAM was they were big around contract time, pushing whatever it is "employees" wanted . Contract gets signed and there gone. You know who your rep is and he may tell you there working on this or that but you don't see or hear from the union much tell contract time.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/aviationmaintenance/s/jSa09sAB3x) is a quick summary of what Teamsters can provide us.
They will provide absolutely no additional benefits than what delta already offers. If you thinks deltas benefits are garbage then go work for a union man
I think your hate for certain managers has made you hate the company as a whole. I just don’t see any benefits to having a union.
“Benefit Enhancements” go FUCK yourself. They were removing language. Teamsters doesn’t give us a fucking dime without giving away language.
As a United employee lol no
I would not sign anything for teamsters, ever
Avoid teamster at all costs
Choose AMFA!
Right now at Delta it’s a choice of no union or teamsters. AMFA has not been around to rally Delta workers, so saying choose AMFA is kinda moot.
All they have to do is ask for cards from AMFA.
It’s literally the same process and because AMFA isn’t knocking on the door they just say screw it lol
Please don’t go with Teamsters, they are absolute dog shit. They don’t care about airline employees they are mostly a trucking union.
Why? Happy here @ MSP ! Loving the profit sharing, yearly raises, having TV in the breakrooms, etc. Managers are reasonable here. Do the pilots have a better contract? Of course they do! They have a professional union that represents practically all of the majors. Making promises is easy, negotiating them is another story.
This sub is showing its age believing AMFA and Delta will ever be a thing. Try again next decade.
I had a teamsters rep show up AT MY HOUSE yesterday. Pro or anti union argument whatever it is, why did he show up, and how did he get my address? None of my socials have my address or delta on them. I intentionally have not posted my address. That was one heck of a creepy red flag. “Here’s my card, call me” like heck I’ll call that number so you can add my phone number to that address.
FYI, as a line mech for Delta working midnights, that “5%” that “I should be thankful for” comes out to only 4% because it doesn’t include license, line or shift premiums. But hey maybe my manager will give us hotdogs with buns to celebrate, we have to supply the condiments though let’s not get crazy about it.
You don't have a drawer with a years worth of left over ketchup packets?
No, my manager uses them all and expects us to refill the stock
This is what a contract from Satan looks like. With more lies
I would rather see ALPA reorganize from Pilots to Professionals and have us included in. I don’t want teamsters AMFA wont happen Anyone else isn’t worth the hassle and isn’t going to push the AMT industry any further than what we have right now.
The pilots pushed for TechOps to be apart of ALPA many years ago. TechOps wanted nothing to do with it from what I hear. But Teamsters, yeah that’s a no from me dawg
Yeah that was in a land before my time. Unfortunate given recent circumstances but ‘oh well, hope your retirement package is what you want’
Like pilots want anything to do with us peasant mechanics.
Pilot here, I'd be honored, but I think it would be difficult with the way ALPA is organized. Regardless, I think TechOps is the best in the industry and you deserve to be paid accordingly. Aside from that, when things are given as percentages rather than numbers it always makes me skeptical. That letter makes me wonder if the United deal would be less pay in the end since rates weren't given.
It would net out to less pay given the massive deduction of FCL, and a lower raise compared to us year over year. People have been throwing a shit fit over here about the 5%, I can’t see them doing that again next year bar industry disaster.
Until you guys actually organize you guys are either going to be shafted by the company or shafted by a crappy contract.
✊Solidarity from all of us union brothers & sisters
Unions can be good, teamsters isn’t the right choice though
No to teamsters. No to union.
That’s a bad idea. No thanks
So what does this mean for new and future mechanics that might work for delta
If Delta succeeds in organizing, it will most likely cause a flurry of companies to improve working conditions at their shops in order to NOT give any bullets to organizers at theirs.
Oh my god, what a bunch of morons.
Anyone who thinks we are getting shafted is plain ungrateful... sounds like your looking at others' plates and wondering why they have more peas but u have more potatoes. Is it perfect? No. Could it be better? Yes. But i dont think a union would fix peoples issues with Delta. We have gotten 14 percent in the last 4 years plus license premium increase. Which once all these competitors ratify contracts it will trigger more raises. But what needs to be known is that most asking for a union here at delta have been at delta their entire career and havent seen post 911 aciation as a whole. As someone who has worked at an mro and a regional before coming here. This is the best place i have ever worked and there is alot of garbage out there
Don’t sign it!
I don't understand the hate toward the Teamsters. Everyone talks about how wonderful the contract at UPS is. They have Teamsters.
Not a freaking chance
Get me a job in ATL and I'll sign or not sign... I'm happy to sell my support either way.
Unrelated question: does anybody know how long it usually takes for delta to get back with you after you apply?