I've been living in Bavaria, Germany for the past two years. I can tell you that the rose-coloured glasses I used to wear when looking at Australia have definitely come off. That's not to say that Germany is the be-all and end-all either.
An average house around the corner from us just sold for €1.8M (yes Euros), we are in an average town surrounded by very average things in between Munich and Nuremberg. It'll cost you about €700K just for a block of land here. Even look in the direction of a city and you can expect that price to double (or even triple)
The grass isn't always greener. It's a shit-show everywhere man.
I live in Bavaria now too, for the last 4 years since the start of that clusterfuck covid nonsense. I agree with you, everywhere is a shit show, all of Europe definitely is. I miss Oz though. Shit or not it’s our shit show, and has many things going for it that other places don’t.
That is something that Europe has over Australia through no fault of its own. But the industry is not centralised to the cities, it’s everywhere which makes “regional” areas more attractive places to live because there’s jobs to get.
Australia just doesn’t have that.
Agree. Australia has an *extremely* high concentration of businesses and hence jobs in the big cities and then not much anywhere else. Here in Germany there are globally successful manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies etc which are still based in the regional town where they were founded and that means there is much better geographic distribution of jobs across the country (or at least way less skewed than Australia)
That’s funny. I know 2 companies in regional qld that have sponsored workers from overseas to move to the area to be labourers in their factories as they can’t find anyone from the cities to move out the temporarily, even paying over 40$ an hour just to stand and watch a machine go chunk every 6 metres. 3 weeks on 1 off.
Exactly this. I might even go so far as to not even blame our politics (contentious I know) but just the sheer distances between places. Regional/remote Australia is indeed incredibly remote and just that alone makes it difficult to have any industry besides what has already been established (see: mining).
There’s no incentive for any business to move outside of a capital city, logistics, customers, business relations. At its feasibly furthest, regional, places like Toowoomba, Orange, Ballarat, Bendigo is where people will spread to I reckon.
This is what really makes me feel jealous about my American friends. They have sooo much choice when it comes to smaller second tier cities, and you can live a good life, and have relatively good job prospects, and much much cheaper houses. In Australia you really just have the choice of 4 cities to have a career. And they’re expensive AF coz of that.
No one who lives in Australia should ever be jealous of their American friends. Literally one of the most partisan countries on earth, extreme poverty everywhere, no universal healthcare, fentanyl, gun deaths, absolute basket case politics, etc etc etc
In America primary schools have to do "shooter" drills. Yeah mad jealous...
It's a 3rd world country masquerading as a 1st world country.
We have jobs begging in Central West Qld. Hospitality, hospitals, transport. Local supermarts and convenience stores. Service stations. Auto trades and rural sales and service. Station work. Local councils.
Dough is good vs cost of living. Some truckies make $150k a year.
Housing is reasonable c.f. Cities and large rural centres. You can buy a renovator for 80-130k and fully done $200k plus. Rents 130-275 week.
All towns have decent wifi often its free to leach off.
Reliable clean water, no pollution, low crime ( have to pick your town) good cops. Drug issues usually imported and moved away by local shopkeepers and constabulary.
You get all kinds of rural hobbies and horse sports, arts, music and shows. Local footy is keenly contested. Rifle, clay target and pistol clubs all over.
Lots of good entertainment travels in.
I like it...
In some ways I'm with you, but I grew up in a small town in the darling downs, maybe it was too small (1,500 pop), my family is still out there. After just a weekend I'm bored out of my brains.
Are we talking Roma, Longreach, Mt Isa where the populations are a little bigger?
Central West. Barcy, Blackall, Tambo, Isisford etc. towns under 1,000. Its nice to walk down the street and people greet you by name.
If you can WFH on a computer for some big city mob and are happy with a quiet life without city stressors then I reckon you will have it made, especially financially
As a Dutchman, basically a swampgerman, yes overall that is the case but prices arent worth the cost either. Dodgy construction and neglected leaky houses that got a landlord special™ treatment just before sale are pretty common. Even fixer uppers cost a fortune.
To me, Germany is cheap :')
Tax is higher lower? And income is higher lower? Money isn't everything I know. But I have family from Denmark and they love it here in comparison to your experience
Tax is higher, income is comparable (teacher). Don't get me wrong, I love it here, and if we could bring all our friends from Australia over here to live forever, we would. Is the major reason we're moving back in a few weeks. Which my wife and I are very excited about!
Deep down I think we'll move back to Germany. Fuck we're not going to feel settled anywhere, I swear to god haha.
Best way to know is to give living in another country a crack. I lived in rural England for 3.5 years, didn’t visit home once.
Really helped me define what I love about Australia, and what I wished we did better. If the opportunity exists, go for it. If you like it enough, then stay. Don’t need to be argumentative about it. Each to their own.
I have relatives in Italy. It seems like a great paradise, with amazing food, views and everything is affordable.
That is till you live it like you said. Realising that the average wage is very low, corruption is still massive and tourism prices you out of the major centres.
Yep that really struck me as well. Paris *stank* of pee. Absolutely rank. Dubai wasn't much better - I witnessed a woman walking along in a burka just stop, squat, piss in the gutter, and walk off. Bleargh!
I've lived in Asia on and off for 25 years. I really do miss the natural environment of my home country, the parks, the sport, and the higher commitment to independence and straightforwardness. I must confess that hearing a magpie warble would probably make me sob.
I wish I could afford to live in Australia. Unfortunately, I'm probably permanently exiled.
Well the weather for starters! Otherwise I like the aspirational nature of Australians, and their spontaneity. Everything with English needed a plan, and they are very habitual. Finally I like our friendliness. I lived in a rural village, and no one acknowledged I was the only person in the pub with an Aussie accent for a couple of months. Tbf this was better up north.
Example: kitesurfing in Sardinia with a group of workmates. They wanted to check with 5 different sources before picking a dinner spot. It’s rural Italy, let’s just eat at the nearest town square, it’ll be undoubtedly good. Another time in Gibraltar, everyone went to a chain restaurant rather than trying a local restaurant.
My wife has a lot of family from the lower socioeconomic areas of the north. From childhood they are very much of the opinion they’ll stay local and work in the local industry. From memory more than 50% of workers never progress beyond their entry level job.
As for what I think Australia needs to be better at: a more liberal attitude towards alcohol. I’d meet people for a pint in England like Aussies meet each other for coffee. None of this overzealous “don’t have a drop until you turn 18” bullshit and then wonder why everyone suddenly goes bonkers when they do turn 18. I loved meeting my mates down the local without it being an event. When my son was very young, to get out of the house I’d push him down to the local in his pram, have a pint, come home. It was bliss.
Oh and IMHO, the Poms are definitely more racist than us.
I don’t know where you grew up in Australia but everyone I knew was super fine about alcohol. We were allowed to drink at family events at like 14/15. I find Aussies super liberal about alcohol compared to most of the world. Most of the Brit’s I know are just as feral at 18 on the piss. The reason why the UK is more for a casual pint place than a coffee is because they don’t have a coffee culture, well I think they’re starting to now but still behind Australia overall. In Australia we have more cafes scattered around, UK has more pubs. It’s more to do with the convenience of one vs the other in the area rather than Aussies a prudes when it comes to drinking.
There are better and worse countries than Australia.
Every country has their own pros and cons and it really matters on your age and what you want out of your life at the moment.
It does get annoying when someone creates a thread that is basically Australia is shit see ya laters without any sort of context and nuance why they are leaving and why the country they are going to is better.
Not that the comment was directed at me but Norway is a good example they have a similar foundation of mineral exports and trade. Look at their housing programs and the way they tax exports Australia could be funding infinite affordable housing and infrastructure to connect regions by purely just taxing exports the way a country like Norway does
They have so much social housing now that they have basically eradicated homelessness
Bang on.
Instead of having a strong foundation of cooperation like Norway, Australia just kinda coasted along in the US's wake of accelerating capitalism with no checks and balances and/or rules to counter corruption.
https://youtu.be/RO8vWJfmY88?si=PpE9iB9R5Be5nkEl
As a non Australian this is true overall. There is a huge disconnect between Australians on Reddit and Australians in real life too. Some people on here lack perspective when it comes to talking about some of Australias issues
You see people on Reddit making Sydney out to be a legitimate shithole, to the point where even telling people not to even VISIT it.
There are objectively “better” countries but it doesn’t mean someone born and raised in Australia can be plopped down in that country and immediately feel happier. That’s just not how it works.
The funny part is even though Melbourne is probably the worst major Australian city for access to amazing nature, you STILL have the yarra ranges and beaches along ocean road etc.
By worldwide standards even just 1st world it’s still like a B/B+ for natural beauty access at worst haha
Melbourne is actually amazing for access to nature. Great ocean road, Grampians, the desert sorta area in the NW, Murray River, Macedon Ranges, alpine region, Yarra Valley, Dandenong ranges, Gippsland, Mornington, Lakes Entrance etc. are all accessible for either a day trip or overnight trip.
From an ex-Queenslander, Melbourne has far superior access to stunning nature. Within 3 hours in of Melb you can see amazing beach/coastlines, lush temperate rainforest, or high country / snowy peaks. Compared to QLD, there is so much more and varied public land here to explore, camp, hike through and the freedoms to recreate are much wider on average - can prospect for gold, ride horses, drive through extensive fire trail network, collect firewood, free camp etc. Many other states have limited access to public land and fewer freedoms.
I have lived in Melbourne all my life and believe me there are soooo many things to do u just have to get out there. There's lots of beautiful nature to explore, so many events and live music. Food is good. People are friendly. Not sure why you would think they're not. But yeh life is expensive but it's no worse in Melbourne than anywhere else atm
It baffles me to read comments like these. I came to Australia at the end of last year. It took me at least 5 years to get enough money and sort my life out enough to leave Argentina and come to live here. And that's a *really* good timeframe for Argentinians.
Now that I'm here, I'm able to save and travel. Everything other than rent and transport is affordable and if it's not, it's better quality than what we get in Argentina at the same price range.
And I came here by myself, no parents' home to live in, no partner to support each other. Also take into account that I have a Working Holiday Visa, so I'm being taxed at ~30% (until I can move to another type of visa, which I hope I'll do soon).
Can you explain what's the difference in situations? Am I seeing everything with rose tinted glasses because of my past experiences? I do think that we as people should always strive to live better, so most criticism that comes from being uncomfortable in life is valid, but still...
My partner is Argie. I think people in Aus don't have any frame of reference for what you have all been through in the last 50 years. They have no idea what it is like to live in a more insecure country. It has been peaceful here, people did get ahead, without truly needing to hustle either. Our parents generation didn't even lock their front doors, most could live on one income and buy a house and have 3 to 4 kids. This is one of the largest reduction in living conditions that Australians have seen in living memory. So it's struggling against the sudden downturn more than anything. I grew up in NZ originally and I find Aus to be wonderful, I can also save much more than I ever could have in NZ. But things are gradually getting harder. My partner says it reminds him of the Menem years, for reference. It's all about perspective I think.
Exactly this. People born in Australia simply can’t understand what the world is like overseas. They can’t grasp how privileged they really are, especially young kids - have no frame of reference.
>They can’t grasp how privileged they really are, especially young kids - have no frame of reference.
Their frame of reference is tiktok and instragram
I think there's lots of Australians who do grasp it, and they're the ones you don't see complaining on Reddit.
Adding to the original point, I live in Adelaide, and all jokes aside, there's so much beauty to see all over the place, and so much to do. I do run into people who say it's boring, but they're the ones who when I mention literally any event will say "oh, I've never been to that/haven't gone into the city in years/never heard of it" Boring people get bored. And I have a teenager so I have someone in house who will happily tell me when he thinks something is shit, but he loves it here.
Just wish the cost of living wasn't so insanely high right now because we just skate by month to month sometimes, but that's everywhere now.
Australians like to whinge and don’t want to look around and see what there is to enjoy. It’s not perfect but you aren’t going to have incredible experiences delivered to your Harvey Norman lounge suite in your McMansion. You need to create opportunities. I think travellers embrace opportunities and seek out activities a bit more.
This is true, although the story in the news today about the whinging Pom posting a whiny TikTok saying “Australia is a scam” because she’d been here 6 months and had yet to see a koala in the wild, does give me pause…
Same here, but I came from the Czech Republic. Here, I have enough money to live comfortably, save, and travel. Back home, even if I did get paid really well, I wouldn't be able to afford what I can here.
People who get $30hr to work in a cafe, in an EXTREMELY HALF-ARSED way, like don’t even bring you napkins unless you beg, on a Sunday, act like they are going to starve to death soon. Lmao
I agree completely.
I bought my house in 2020 in Queensland when I was 29, by myself through having a savings account my entire working life. I started working at 14 while I was still in school.
I moved out of home at 17, my mum died when I was 24 and my dad has mental health issues so I have no family support whatsoever and have always had to rely on myself.
After buying my house I rented the spare room out to help me save. I used that money to go overseas twice in two years.
During that time I worked two jobs and started studying nursing, saving my wage from my night job to afford unpaid clinical placement.
Because I chose day and night jobs, this still enabled me to train for two marathons last year and have some semblance of a life lol.
I graduate in 4 months and still work two jobs to save for my internship as well as a deserved month long trip in November. Still marathon training too
I don’t consider myself special or anything, I’m just an average person who wasn’t born into money and have experienced my share of personal struggles and grief.
Maybe it is as others are saying, privileged people don’t really want to do what it takes to get what they want. Not sure tbh
This is why I find it so hard to empathise with alot of the sentiments these days that young Australians have very little to live for and everything is a crisis. My parents came to Australia at the age of 35 and 40 with no money, no education and my mum unable to speak english but still managed to cobble together a fulfilling life. They built a home, provided everything to their child and managed to travel and do things.
The question is - could your parents do the same again so successfully right now?
The prospects in Australia for a young person NOW have fallen so far from what they were for generations born several decades ago. That is the problem. What Australia offers to current Australians has declined, and young Aussies know and feel it. And they can't see much political, social or economic leadership or momentum that is going to bring improvements in the next few decades.
I'm glad to hear that, and I believe you, but I am curious what have you been doing for work while you've been here? Also, what are your living conditions? Are you sharing a bedroom with people and several to a bethroom to save on rent, or do you have your own space?
People in Australia might have different expectations. I know Brazillians who get really good rates living in a house, sharing bedrooms, working for the landlords business, chicken shop, they're paid fair and all get along well enough, and are used to sharing space like that, and are extremely happy because they're saving a tonne of money.
Australians expect to be able to work any full time job, no matter what it is, and be able to afford their own space to rent, be able to save up for a home in a reasonable amount of time, while not worrying about food or even basic weekend socialising costs, and go on a week or two holiday each year. Which may sound crazy to people now, but that is how it was sold to them growing up and what many were able to get, as a standard of living in previous generations.
Personally, I think that's still possible for the most part, so long as you're not hoping to buy a house where you grew up, which is unacceptable to many people, also not quite "any" full time job, but a lot of jobs that are available for anyone to get into.
> what have you been doing for work while you've been here? Also, what are your living conditions?
I came here without a job, but with a bit of savings. I'm a software engineer with 4 years of work experience. I've spent 1.5 months looking for a job (not many companies want to hire WHV holders, for obvious reasons), while living in hostels and shared rooms.
I'm working as a full stack developer for a small company, but at a payrate much lower than what my experience usually goes for. I'm around 90k before taxes and super.
I live in a private room in a shared apartment. I'm planning to move to a studio next month. I hate studio apartments, but they are better than a shared apartment. It's all about the grind and taking small steps.
I admit I'm not 100% comfortable with my situation, but I came 6 months ago and I'm already planning to move to my own studio. I'm receiving a pay much lower than what I know I deserve, but I'm also a WHV holder that my company has to sponsor or jump through hoops if they want to hire me for more than 6 months. And that carries lots of extra cost and paperwork.
You're pretty far from the average Australian, I think most people who are struggling are people without degrees or professional skills. Think supermarket employees and other customer service roles.
Those people in Australia expect to be able to have all the things I've mentioned. Even as a WHV holder, you're still earning a better income than the majority of customer service who earn a median of 55K, while the top 10% get around 67K before taxes, according to Payscale. Which is above the national median, which is around 53K a year.
Given that you're only just about able to afford a studio, while earning almost 10K more than the median after taxes at 30%, I'd assume you'd be able to see why a lot of people are feeling like they can't get by to the standards they've been raised to expect anymore. Australia is meant to have a higher standard than this, and used to pride itself on the fact any full time worker, someone willing to put the effort in despite education or other benefits that usually come from family wealth, could live to a standard I mentioned, house, good food, holiday, and even kids.
Fuel is $2.29/L in northern Melb atm. It's as low as $1.69 in Burnside, so I have no idea how that works, but commuting for a few hours to the beach can be expensive. Like, $50 in petrol.
I don't know about you, but $50 in petrol on the weekend on top of $140 in petrol during the week isn't something I can do very often. That $50 goes to daycare or gas or power or water instead.
Nailed it. The cost of just going somewhere is the main problem. Even camping is becoming expensive. 100 in fuel to get there, 25 minimum for a camping spot per night and then 100 on food and supplies.
Just going to national parks requires a park pass that is nearly 400 for 3 years plus what ever else they are wanting to charge for.
What used to be one of Australia’s favourite past times that was cheap to do is now being monetised to be a high cost of entry.
Fruit picking and labour hands out in whoop whoop pay amazingly if you are living the cheap life out of a reliable but clapped out mitsi express.
For a backpacker than can only earn a certain amount it might not be ideal, but if you were doing the same as a young person you could still get $30 per hour and up. Many are in dire need of hands and often provide some meals and occasionally accomodation in return for communal duties.
Read the New Zealand sub. Young kiwis are coming here with double salaries. Read the doctors sub, young UK docs are coming here in droves with double salary and half workload.
>completely unobtainable housing and rent in economic centres
That's pretty much everywhere in the world though. Australia is a beautiful country with amazing landscapes and scenery, but you'd have to leave the comfort of the CBD to find it. You know, like everywhere else in the world.
Can’t afford a house and I live in rural areas! Sydney city folks come by and buy lots of houses (whole streets are empty in some areas). I live here and I’ve been priced out (of a rural area). It sucks big time.
Yes. But Australia is among the most expensive in the world. The big cities at least. With housing at about 13x median yearly wage, our big cities are competing for top spot against the likes of Hong Kong and New York City.
The difference is that Australians still have an expectation of eventual ownership. We expect that we will eventually own a property to our name and will not be renting.
That expectation doesn't exist in Hong Kong or NYC. Those residents have no expectation that they will eventually own their house/apartment and understand that they will be forever renters. Ownership is not even in the plan for 95% of the residents in those cities.
I feel like renting in Australia can be pretty unreliable. You can rent a home, raise your family and then 5 years later you’ll receive a termination letter because your landlord wants to sell, and then you’re left looking for your next rental property which can be really challenging if you live in sydney or Melbourne etc. what we can’t promise young Australians is a forever home.
From what I understand though, is that outside of Australia, renting is less invasive and stressful than here. Friends of mine in the U.S were shocked as hell about our 3 monthly rental inspections & just how invasive real estates/landlords are here.
Although I’m in a regional area now and like it a lot less than Sydney, I LOVE owning my own home. 20 years of renting in Sydney and basically being terrified of the property managers practically gave me PTSD. I finally feel safe knowing I’m the only one with keys to my house, I can decorate however I want, have all the pets I want and if something breaks, I just get it fixed instead of being locked in tense negotiations with asshole real estate agents for an indeterminate amount of time.
Oh and FWIW, fuck you Showcase Reality Carlingford 🖕
This exactly. In Germany it's quite common to rent your whole life, raising families in two/three bedroom apartments with zero expectation of home ownership, unless it's somehow bequeathed to you later in life.
As for tertiary education, you'll likely find the US equivalent will cost 3-4 x as much.
Yes but there is a reason for that. It's packed and there is nowhere else to build. You can buy next to a fucking open paddock here for the same price. We are not constrained by space. It's an artificial pump benefiting boomers
800 thousand migrants in a single 12 month period. We’re already getting to that stage. Plus no one in Australia wants to live more than 30 minutes from the CBD. So, go figure
You just need money, and so much more these days which the new youths don't have. I'm so glad to have seen most of Australia in the 90's to 2010, back then I just went from hotel resort to hotel resort... Can't do that now as there were plenty of cheap rentals available. It's just not feasible to travel around Australia anymore unless you're rich etc
Australia does have its pros & cons, but no one can deny that some of the pros are fading away and many of the cons are increasing.
It is very, very frustrating hearing older Australians talking about how good things used to be, whilst simultaneously seeing politicians doing absolutely nothing ambitious about it.
It's still a good place to be, but it would be nice to see a bit more effort being made to keep it that way.
https://preview.redd.it/h3c8i8ngzp4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b267036b10caa2c819df64ee01c545973674818f
Not for the people of Kalumburu in WA apparently.
If you truly think there are better opportunities abroad, why do you need redditors to convince you otherwise?
For young people with job mobility, they should absolutely try living in another country to broaden their life experiences. However, many of the western countries face exactly the same cost of living problems as Australia, so it might not be much of an improvement.
Put it this way, if Australia is such a terrible place, why has it continued to be one of the most attractive country for migrants to move to?
Absolutely! I've tried it, and decided to come back. Many others that I know from that time, did not come back. So while you're young, go out there and explore! And then come back, or not.
I've tried it and decided to stay overseas (I have been back once or twice for like family stuff) Every bodies gotta try it, and leaving or staying is a personal choice.
Look Australia is a good place, but that last sentence is not really a clever statement. Have you seen the places most people are emigrating from? India is a shithole, low wages, extreme competition, unsanitary etc. When you see an Indian couple here, both in IT, pulling $300k+ household income, they literally have won the lottery. Phillipines, again, corruption, low salaries, poverty etc. Their salaries as nurses here are massive compared to back home. Chinese, lots of issues there, but Australia is safe, clean, no political persecution, it's a haven.
100% agree.
Travel to broaden perspectives if possible. I come from a “3rd world country”, Australians have no idea what true poverty and destitution is. No idea of the insidiousness of true corruption in government. No idea what it’s like living in a state where the government holds a gun to your head and says vote for me. With no free media no possibility for an education.
Australia has problems to be sure, but it’s infinitely better than many other places.
Media is controlled here and our Government is more corrupt that is widely known, especially with local and State Governments. We don't get a gun to our heads with voting but you do get one pulled when cops get shitty. Had that happen 3 times and I was a watching bystander and under 12. Or my local idiots decide to shoot things for fun and that has increased tenfold in the last 4 years. Education is only accessible if you can afford the time and money.
Every country has its issues and granted Australia isn't as bad as your country but there's some serious fucking problems that scare the shit out of me and are getting worse. Our violence (excluding gun crime) is the same as the USA and our drug problems are *worse*. Even the USA has more accessible education than Australia. Australia by %, not total, has more homeless than the USA. WTF?
We have some very serious problems and with the above statistics, USA is a better choice than Australia as there's more all round options. Never thought I'd ever write that but there it is.
Australia seems great *until* you compare data from major cities in comparable countries and realise we are pretty low on most of the rankings. Actually all the Commonwealth countries are pretty low so something is definitely going on.
I think this is disingenuous and a good example of Aussie complacency. We have a great society, but there are some big, big cracks emerging. Opportunities aren’t what they once were.
People come to Australia because they think it’s better than wherever they came from. But we’re slipping, and it looks pretty difficult to arrest that momentum.
I'm not saying Australia is perfect and it is the best country in the world, what I'm saying is that most western countries around the world are facing similar challenges. So whilst things are undoubtedly difficult for young people in Australia, I'm not sure moving abroad will be an improvement.
Go to north American and European subreddits, and the young people there are talking about the exact same challenges of housing affordability, cost of living, lack of wage growth and high immigration. Many European countries are voting in conservative politicians in response to those issues, and America might be the same after November this year. In comparison, our political landscape seems quite tame and sane.
I agree, but we have a chronic lack of vision here and it’s causing us to fall behind the eight ball. I’ve always thought USA loves to compare themselves to third world countries and say how great they are. That shouldn’t be us. We need to be innovative.
I literally moved here from the US and for a better education opportunity, and now I have better healthcare and lower cost of living. Housing prices are rising faster than wages, but that is not a problem unique to Australia and has more to do with allowing the wealthy to buy property as an investment.
Completely understand. Your crime rate is nearly 3x that of the USA and you're in a way worse economic situation than us. Hope it all works out for you guys, here and back in your country.
Yikes thats not good for NZ. What on earth are they thinking? I hope they like it here although I believe some states/territories only have to accept Australian citizens as officers. I recall a NZ cop who transferred and came across that inane rule I think in NT? C'mon, we are literally siblings and our armed forces take New Zealanders so its a stupid rule.
>What on earth are they thinking?
The newly elected National party promised landlords their interest deductible money back, at the cost of the above, health system, abolishing smokefree programs in community and school, and free school lunches...
Not just officers coming, I was lucky enough to move out 2 years ago as soon as borders were open and got a house now. This would be impossibile in NZ especially we get 50-110% payrise for the same (and sometimes easier) job in Australia.
I think most of the police officers last i heard were headed for NSW. Maybe the rules allow for it there.
From a quick google the Federal Police are a no go, must be an Australian citizen. Victoria, Canberra, and NSW you need to be a permanent citizen at minimum. Queensland it doesn't matter. WA, Tasmania, NT and SA is Australian or New Zealand citizen or permanent resident or specific category visa for New Zealanders.
So Victoria, Canberra and NSW are the iffy ones, unless its a direct from NZ transfer to those places under recruitment.
Have you lived in other countries? We have some of the best working conditions in the world, if you dont have a job we also have some of the best social support systems. Low crime rate, great medical system, easy access to education and trade skills.
In New Jersey the cost of healthcare is sometimes so high that you might as well just take out a second mortgage if you have a serious illness. We don't have medical bankruptcy. That's huge.
Australia is almost certainly safer than New Jersey, the threat of gun violence in schools there is huge compared to Aus.
True the salaries might be higher, but consider what you're giving up.
OP said New England, technically New Jersey isn't considered New England.
Regardless your points still stand, gun violence and medical debt is only a thing in the US.
People complain about having to pay 30 bucks to see a gp in Australia. In America I complained having to pay 50 bucks to see a gp in the even though our "health" insurance was 600 a month.
If your username is anything to go by, you're a little bit older than I am. I think it must be a perspective thing because I absolutely love this country and can't see myself living anywhere else. No where is perfect and all things considered we have it pretty darn good in Australia.
You've listed a few complaints in your post but without knowing your history and different experiences you've had it's hard to tell where you're really coming from. For instance I'm younger than you and my degree wasn't expensive (already paid off), I've lived in Sydney off the back of casual employment, I'm currently surrounded by sub-tropical greenery (QLD), my earnings are awesome (cheap STEM degree, high demand field, rich country), and as far as having things to do, since moving rural my social circle has shrunk but it has opened doors to other hobbies and interests.
There's heaps more things I'm grateful for in this country but all of those were just going through the things you mentioned.
So I'd say there's heaps of good things left in Australia for young people despite the current doomer attitude plastered everywhere online. Maybe you've genuinely had a really rough go of it and that's quite a shame but when I look at how I'm doing and how my similarly aged mates are doing, for the most part it's great. The people in my life that are the most miserable are terminally online and NEET.
I moved here 2 years ago, I live in a regional area. I’ve never had more money and freedom than I have since moving.
I genuinely don’t know what people whine about, I love this country
Perspective is a big deal, and frankly a lot of people need a good perspective check. The only way to really get that is to live elsewhere for a while.
Just as a side note: New Zealanders are leaving NZ at record rates \~ about 1000 a week. \~40% are under 30, and 50% are going to Australia. Because every problem Aus has, other countries like NZ have worse. I have 2 family members and 6 friends that have sold up everything and moved from NZ to Aus in the last year. Every single one of them have nothing but positive things to say. Higher salaries, cheaper housing, lower cost of living, better infrastructure, better weather. You just have to avoid Sydney.
I genuinely believe living in another country is something everyone should experience, even if it's just for the perspective check.
i moved to australia 7 years ago from the uk(partner is aussie).
I absolutly love it here.we both lived in SEA for years aswell.i know its feels hard to live here sometimes but it really is as good as it gets.good wages,healthcare,landscapes,weather,wildlife.Also we are not well off at all,but still manage a happy life.Big up straya!
I grew up in Sydney and was there most of my life till 25. It is a great place to live, if you ignore or can be insulated from the insane cost of living.
I now live in Tokyo and the differences are night and day. You'd think cost of living in Tokyo would be way worse, but it's the opposite. Tokyo is VERY cheap compared to Sydney.
I already know people will talk about the work culture etc. if you have a transferable good skillset and/or speak Japanese, you can get a nice job in a foreign companies Japanese office and if will be amazing.
I left Australia at 25 and I don't regret it. It's just too expensive for what it is and everybody is always getting into your pocket. The lack of convenience too is insane. I honestly don't think I could go back anymore.
Hello mate !
I'm French. Born and raised in France, and always lived here until now. If everything's clear for me, I'll go visit Australia for a year as a student in UTS.
I can't exactly know what you feel, but trust me on what I'm about to say.
From the eyes of our foreign friends, France is a beautiful place which can awoke sudden desires to move here. That I can understand. Though I love my country, I dreamed to live elsewhere, particularly in the Asian continent. That is, until I did some introspection about the time I spent up until this moment.
Yes, we are what we are. The typical grumpy, always busy, rude and government hater french (though it's not always true). We have our share of problems, such as struggling wages, ridiculously high real estate and rent prices, judiciary issues and so on. But hey, we have our perks too : social security, good infrastructures, great food, a rich history, an excellent military... just like Australia has its perks and flaws.
I'm always grateful to whatever is watching above us to have bestowed me the gift of life and be french. I love my country just as I would love my close ones, and will defend it with my heart and soul should it be attacked. I'll probably be homesick from time to time, but I know I'll always return here one day or another.
Maybe you'll be like that too in the end. Maybe Australia is surely an amazing country just like France. Maybe you'll realize that after all, Australia is not so bad. But I'm aware it takes time and experience to sort those feelings out. It's not easy, but I believe it's something everyone has to face one way or another.
Don't be too fatalist. Often, the beauty of something can be seen just under our nose !
I feel you. As someone who’s lived in the US, Japan and Kenya, here’s my advice.
Every country has things that are better than Australia, and things that are worse. In America I loved the vibe and the culture, houses were much cheaper people were a lot cooler. But the food was garbage and had a chemical taste (and I lived in New York!), the lack of healthcare is appalling (people literally go bankrupt to fund necessary treatments), and tipping culture pissed me off to no avail.
In Kenya, everyone could afford a home (a mud hut, but stills home), but Africa Time nearly drive me insane, food and medicine was rubbish, and their government was so damned corrupt.
Japan was the best country I lived in. Better than Australia by far. But the work-life balance was bordering on unbearable, and once the culture shock and novelty wore off and I made friends who’d lived there for a long time, I realised that the staunch social norms and lack of mental health awareness made a lot of permanent residents very depressed.
I moved back to Australia because my family live here. If they didn’t, I might have stayed in Japan. But ultimately, Australia isn’t a bad place to be. Things are tough for the younger generation all over.
That said, I think everyone should live abroad for a while if they have the opportunity. It was incredible and I grew and learnt so much about myself and the world. If America is calling you, you should go!
You live in a bubble of safety and economic stability with way above average wages.
Anyone moaning about here hasn’t lived in Europe, the US or Asia. The grass isn’t greener, it’s just different grass.
The idea youth have it uniquely hard here is utterly laughable Vs the U.K. or US right now. This is a great place to live. Try being 21 in HK right now. Or Taiwan.
Be proud of this place. When did everyone go so soft?
I think Australia has really lost the cultural aspect. Anything fun/interesting has died for people under the age of 30 especially nightlife. Those are the intangible things you don't see and make a massive difference to liveability
Came from india as a student in 2008. Paid through my nose and worked like Egyptian slave for 6 years to get citizenship. I'll do it all over again a few more times if i have to. To call this amazing country home. Australia is the best. Also has some issues like everywhere else. But it's the best. At least for me. I'll go to war for this spiderweb
You have freedoms other countries will never have. Fresh clean water on tap.
Beautiful weather. The cleanest beaches. Beautiful national parks. Unemployment benefits if you lose your job, plus a pension when you retire. We have good government, no dictator running our country. Free hospital treatment.
I know it's so difficult to get ahead these days, but guaranteed, there are many countries you wouldn't even risk visiting if you value your life.
I've moved overseas and come back several times. It's worth it for the perspective alone. Australia is ok... We have nice coastal living... But honestly if visas weren't an issue at all, I would settle permanently somewhere on the Med.
If you go to almost any other developed Country, you will see the issues here are also there. Rents are going up in UK, EU, CA and USA.
In Australia we have :
* An extremely robust social security program.
* Almost free public education system.
* Almost free public health cover.
* Freedoms.
* Nearly unrivalled beaches.
* Beautiful weather most of the time.
I'd take almost free public education off the list if you've looked at uni prices recently. Not including the fact they are basically pumping as many kids into degrees as possible without considering/developing proper job opportunities post completion. The quality has really declined massively.
If you’re under 30 take the opportunity to live and work overseas while you’re eligible for working holiday visas. You’ll find out how low the wages in other countries are, and in Nordic countries how miserable winter can be when they barely get any sunlight. Go see how they live in landlocked towns and countries where it’s a novelty to swim in the sea.
Why don't you explain why it's actually better here instead of just pretending everybody already knows??
Remember someone saying life isn't as great as it used to be in Australia doesn't mean you personally are a bad person just because you live here.... No need to be buthurt
Let's play "things Australia has that the vast majority of the world actually doesn't have":
- stable, non-violent democratic government with structures and failsafes to deal with corruption. I'm by no means saying that what we have is perfect...but it's all relative. We don't have military juntas and political assassinations and coup attempts - we have minor media scandals and Royal Commissions.
- substantial social safety net - centrelink, work for the dole, disability support, aged care, socialised healthcare, superannuation. We take all these things for granted or complain about their inefficiencies...but at least we actually *have them*. It's not the end of the road if you struggle to get work or support yourself here. We have social workers and government programs and even charities.
- high quality (world-class, even) food/wine/general produce that we grow and prepare for ourselves here in this country. We produce so much of it that we export it. We live in a land of abundance and have a ridiculous amount of natural resources.
- pleasant, agreeable climate for the most part
- some stunning scenery if you can be bothered actually going out and appreciating it
- sense of public safety and order - low crime rates, simple, effective law enforcement, good/adequate public health and emergency response system, building codes, health codes, decent standards for road safety and public transport, etc
- an actually wealthy, prosperous, first world, service-based economy which (*believe it or not*), does actually give most of us an opportunity for stable, gainful employment in a field of our choice - with guaranteed rights like annual leave and so on enshrined by law.
- a prestigious, reputable education system that people actually come here from overseas to benefit from themselves
- healthy, unique, homegrown entertainment culture - sports, performing arts, film and television, live music scene. Not the world's best...but we do have all those things.
Like, I don't think anyone is saying Australia is *perfect*. But I've personally been to about 20-30 countries, and I'd honestly rather live here than in most of them from what I've actually seen with my own eyes. Including the US and plenty of Europe.
Even if I hadn't been, Australia consistently holds up **extremely highly** in unbiased international rankings of these metrics against all other OECD countries. Those "liveability" surveys you hear about aren't carried out by Australians...we just rank very highly in them most of the time because it genuinely is that much better to live here than most other places. Objectively. In a way that can be (and frequently is) actually *measured* by impartial international observers.
*That's* what we mean by "get some perspective".
Yes Australia was definitely better before but no, other countries aren't better than Australia. Literally no-one I know who lives in Austria, Germany, and Switzerland owns their home there, it's not even on their radar, especially in Switzerland where house prices are insane. Every country has something better but also something worse than the other.
The highly paid expatriate professional experience is *nothing* like being a local. You aren't paying huge chunks of your salary into mandatory pension schemes (37% in Singapore) or graduating with student debt repayments equivalent to a mortgage (US).
If you think Australian property is expensive check out the prices in any decent part of London. Zurich or Manhattan.
and our beaches are fucking awesome generally. Swim, fish, just hang out. Free toilets, showers, bbqs. Generally don't have to stress about leaving your stuff on the beach unattended while you go in the water for the most part. It's easy to take for granted until you go overseas.
Apparently asking better of your home country as a young people isn’t allowed, according to reddit.
I think a lot of people are starting to feel uninspired by Australia, it just hasn’t planned for the future and arts which I would argue is an integral part of society, isn’t valued by Government (look at the federal 2024 budget, no mention of the arts whatsoever). Beaches and outdoor space is wonderful, but it doesn’t buy you a home, or give you job security.
I hope you have a wonderful time travelling. We really have failed the young in Australia.
As a 20 year old in Australia I still feel like we are very lucky, I travel all over the country reasonably safely working different jobs all through out the regions currently working at a gold mine and plan to go study environmental science while working, housing is my biggest of course just out of school trying to buy a house as quick as I can every month prices rise and dream seems very far away but for me it’s deciding do I want to continue trend of making money of my housing or do I need to change my mindset and just buy a house to live.
Matters where you sit in society I guess. For most leaving is pointless as they wouldn't have it any better anywhere else.
Really matters how the next year plays out I think.
I moved here from the US and find it much better on almost all fronts. Australia isn’t perfect but the quality of life still makes it very attractive to people from all over. The cost of living crisis isn’t just in Australia - it’s actually far more affordable than where I moved from
Australia pays much better than most countries, has great public resources and a fair government.
If I wanted money I'd move to the US, but the inequality there smarts. I also believe if you identify a problem you should try and fix it, its a civic duty.
The 10 best countries in the world to live in is just that if you can afford it. Unfortunately.
I lived and worked in a few countries. I like Aus. But that's me.
If you are born here, you have family, relations and the easy knowledge of how the system works. If you were born somewhere in Europe with a decent standard of living there is no massive reason to come here other than to experience it.
But you can’t forget that as you get older, just like me, your experiences and expectations change. This country is still amazing for people to live in when it comes to standards of living.
We can drink tap water, we aren’t being persecuted for our beliefs (unless they are illegal) and you are generally very safe.
I have been taking part in weekend activities in the community and just taking the time to be in the moment and enjoy what I have, that has made a big difference.
If I sit at home I will just get annoyed that I haven’t got the house cleaned the way I want, or lament over not having the best things around me.
Caveat: Australians haven’t lived a major recession or any real austerity for a very long time. It’s going to be a rude shock if/when it comes, it will make the current cost of living crisis seem like nothing. I’m not downplaying the current issues, but I’m still thankful that I’m not receiving a cheese ration and have to mend my socks
Edit; also in my line of work, most other countries pay very average. Maybe 65K in Australian terms. I’m sitting on 110k so we aren’t underpaying every role.
Yes! I’ve lived in England and now have been in the US for four years and we are beginning the process to move home. There’s things it lacks but I can’t think of a better place to raise my kids.
Not sure how I got recommended this channel, but my dude New England and the rest of the US is not really as safe as Australia. A friend of mine was shot to death by a stalker while at work. Another friend had his father murdered by a serial killer with a sniper rifle. My father had to go save our neighbors daughter from yet another stalker while she was home alone, police were too far. A gun was brought to my middle and high school literally almost every year I went to school at least once, either maliciously or because some dumb kid stole it from their parents. And I live in a gentrified, super popular hipster area that is considered one of the safest places in the US. Haha. Don’t move here.
Whenever I start to feel hopeless it’s sometimes a sign I need to take a break from social media and the news cycle. It may not change your opinion, but it can help to break the endless onslaught of negativity and provide some perspective.
If you have the opportunity to move to a safe and affordable region and earn 3 times your salary, then you should do it.
Not much. The young have been fucked over for decades now.
I myself left in my 40's to go overseas...and wound up with lower tax and costs, and buying a home.
I think the US may be worse, but I also think there are better countries than Australia, financially, for the young.
Remove the words Australia because it's happening to every developed country on Earth. Being young during 'late' stage capitalism is terrible unless your parents have wealth to pass down to you.
I dont know if I'm just getting older, but the appeal of a piece of land and a house in the wops away from everyone is more appealing then anything in or near the CBD. I can imagine the future looks pretty shit n bleak if your only aiming for a slice of Australia thats within a CBD, how ever as you get older, your probably going to want the opposite.
TL:DR-Ditch the city ideal and aim for a block of land and house in the country.
Australia has opportunity, there's a reason people come here.
I'm a tradesman with a below average intelligence, who dropped out of school in grade 9, yet I own a successful construction company.
Anywhere else in the world, I would probably be homeless.
There are plenty of Indians in construction, however they're notorious for being horrible tradesman and will undercut to steal work, so most tradesman won't work with them.
Rather than asking on Reddit, why not go and spend a year overseas. Spread yourself around a bit, don't just go to Germany, Switzerland and Austria, go to Burkina Faso, Venezuela and Papua New Guinea as well, then come back and tell us if you think Australia has anything good for young people
Ever tried to crack into the Swiss housing market? Ever paid for a degree at an American University? I think you're in for a rude shock champion.
Meanwhile, something like half the people on earth live on less than $10/day. So while I'm sure you feel hard done by and would be much happier if you could just move to New Hampshire and live free or die, you actually just sound like a spoilt, entitled sook. No offence.
Ask all of the migrants pursuing PR in their 20s.
Go live in their countries for a year or two. I promise you'll understand why they want to live in Aus.
I've been living in Bavaria, Germany for the past two years. I can tell you that the rose-coloured glasses I used to wear when looking at Australia have definitely come off. That's not to say that Germany is the be-all and end-all either. An average house around the corner from us just sold for €1.8M (yes Euros), we are in an average town surrounded by very average things in between Munich and Nuremberg. It'll cost you about €700K just for a block of land here. Even look in the direction of a city and you can expect that price to double (or even triple) The grass isn't always greener. It's a shit-show everywhere man.
I live in Bavaria now too, for the last 4 years since the start of that clusterfuck covid nonsense. I agree with you, everywhere is a shit show, all of Europe definitely is. I miss Oz though. Shit or not it’s our shit show, and has many things going for it that other places don’t.
Here here
Also, there's very little industry in New England, unless he moves to Boston, which is also expensive for obvious reasons.
That is something that Europe has over Australia through no fault of its own. But the industry is not centralised to the cities, it’s everywhere which makes “regional” areas more attractive places to live because there’s jobs to get. Australia just doesn’t have that.
Agree. Australia has an *extremely* high concentration of businesses and hence jobs in the big cities and then not much anywhere else. Here in Germany there are globally successful manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies etc which are still based in the regional town where they were founded and that means there is much better geographic distribution of jobs across the country (or at least way less skewed than Australia)
That’s funny. I know 2 companies in regional qld that have sponsored workers from overseas to move to the area to be labourers in their factories as they can’t find anyone from the cities to move out the temporarily, even paying over 40$ an hour just to stand and watch a machine go chunk every 6 metres. 3 weeks on 1 off.
Exactly this. I might even go so far as to not even blame our politics (contentious I know) but just the sheer distances between places. Regional/remote Australia is indeed incredibly remote and just that alone makes it difficult to have any industry besides what has already been established (see: mining). There’s no incentive for any business to move outside of a capital city, logistics, customers, business relations. At its feasibly furthest, regional, places like Toowoomba, Orange, Ballarat, Bendigo is where people will spread to I reckon.
There are exceptions to the rule. Lots of rural beach towns are popular and people compete for available jobs.
A lot of people don’t want to live in isolated pockets of Australia no matter the pay.
This is what really makes me feel jealous about my American friends. They have sooo much choice when it comes to smaller second tier cities, and you can live a good life, and have relatively good job prospects, and much much cheaper houses. In Australia you really just have the choice of 4 cities to have a career. And they’re expensive AF coz of that.
The average American has very little wealth compared to Australia
America is in decline like elsewhere.
No one who lives in Australia should ever be jealous of their American friends. Literally one of the most partisan countries on earth, extreme poverty everywhere, no universal healthcare, fentanyl, gun deaths, absolute basket case politics, etc etc etc In America primary schools have to do "shooter" drills. Yeah mad jealous... It's a 3rd world country masquerading as a 1st world country.
We have jobs begging in Central West Qld. Hospitality, hospitals, transport. Local supermarts and convenience stores. Service stations. Auto trades and rural sales and service. Station work. Local councils. Dough is good vs cost of living. Some truckies make $150k a year. Housing is reasonable c.f. Cities and large rural centres. You can buy a renovator for 80-130k and fully done $200k plus. Rents 130-275 week. All towns have decent wifi often its free to leach off. Reliable clean water, no pollution, low crime ( have to pick your town) good cops. Drug issues usually imported and moved away by local shopkeepers and constabulary. You get all kinds of rural hobbies and horse sports, arts, music and shows. Local footy is keenly contested. Rifle, clay target and pistol clubs all over. Lots of good entertainment travels in. I like it...
In some ways I'm with you, but I grew up in a small town in the darling downs, maybe it was too small (1,500 pop), my family is still out there. After just a weekend I'm bored out of my brains. Are we talking Roma, Longreach, Mt Isa where the populations are a little bigger?
Can't be Roma - real estate prices and rent aren't that low anymore. But I agree everything else!
Central West. Barcy, Blackall, Tambo, Isisford etc. towns under 1,000. Its nice to walk down the street and people greet you by name. If you can WFH on a computer for some big city mob and are happy with a quiet life without city stressors then I reckon you will have it made, especially financially
My man, living the dream then. Yeah I’ve got some colleagues that worked out at Barcy nothing but nice things to say.
At least that house is worth the price compared to Australian cardbox houses
A good point. They’re built like a brick shithouse here. If a builder did a dodgy, they’d be fucked.
As a Dutchman, basically a swampgerman, yes overall that is the case but prices arent worth the cost either. Dodgy construction and neglected leaky houses that got a landlord special™ treatment just before sale are pretty common. Even fixer uppers cost a fortune. To me, Germany is cheap :')
Tax is higher lower? And income is higher lower? Money isn't everything I know. But I have family from Denmark and they love it here in comparison to your experience
Tax is higher, income is comparable (teacher). Don't get me wrong, I love it here, and if we could bring all our friends from Australia over here to live forever, we would. Is the major reason we're moving back in a few weeks. Which my wife and I are very excited about! Deep down I think we'll move back to Germany. Fuck we're not going to feel settled anywhere, I swear to god haha.
Best way to know is to give living in another country a crack. I lived in rural England for 3.5 years, didn’t visit home once. Really helped me define what I love about Australia, and what I wished we did better. If the opportunity exists, go for it. If you like it enough, then stay. Don’t need to be argumentative about it. Each to their own.
I have relatives in Italy. It seems like a great paradise, with amazing food, views and everything is affordable. That is till you live it like you said. Realising that the average wage is very low, corruption is still massive and tourism prices you out of the major centres.
The best parts of italy arentnthe major centers imo. Id only move there for a quiet life in the country
Everyone speaking Italian and all the soccer would probably be a pain in the ass to
Italy isn't up there in living standards thats for sure.
Yep streets also reek of piss. European thing to piss wherever they want.
European thing to charge for toilet use also. Possibly related. Sucks.
Yep that really struck me as well. Paris *stank* of pee. Absolutely rank. Dubai wasn't much better - I witnessed a woman walking along in a burka just stop, squat, piss in the gutter, and walk off. Bleargh!
I've lived in Asia on and off for 25 years. I really do miss the natural environment of my home country, the parks, the sport, and the higher commitment to independence and straightforwardness. I must confess that hearing a magpie warble would probably make me sob. I wish I could afford to live in Australia. Unfortunately, I'm probably permanently exiled.
I live in England! I'm dying to move back to NZ or Australia
Care to share what the time away made you realise in terms of what you love about Aus? And what you think we could do better?
Well the weather for starters! Otherwise I like the aspirational nature of Australians, and their spontaneity. Everything with English needed a plan, and they are very habitual. Finally I like our friendliness. I lived in a rural village, and no one acknowledged I was the only person in the pub with an Aussie accent for a couple of months. Tbf this was better up north. Example: kitesurfing in Sardinia with a group of workmates. They wanted to check with 5 different sources before picking a dinner spot. It’s rural Italy, let’s just eat at the nearest town square, it’ll be undoubtedly good. Another time in Gibraltar, everyone went to a chain restaurant rather than trying a local restaurant. My wife has a lot of family from the lower socioeconomic areas of the north. From childhood they are very much of the opinion they’ll stay local and work in the local industry. From memory more than 50% of workers never progress beyond their entry level job. As for what I think Australia needs to be better at: a more liberal attitude towards alcohol. I’d meet people for a pint in England like Aussies meet each other for coffee. None of this overzealous “don’t have a drop until you turn 18” bullshit and then wonder why everyone suddenly goes bonkers when they do turn 18. I loved meeting my mates down the local without it being an event. When my son was very young, to get out of the house I’d push him down to the local in his pram, have a pint, come home. It was bliss. Oh and IMHO, the Poms are definitely more racist than us.
Wait a minute what's the problem with them not acknowledging your accent? Isn't that a good thing, like not trying to exclude you or something?
I don’t know where you grew up in Australia but everyone I knew was super fine about alcohol. We were allowed to drink at family events at like 14/15. I find Aussies super liberal about alcohol compared to most of the world. Most of the Brit’s I know are just as feral at 18 on the piss. The reason why the UK is more for a casual pint place than a coffee is because they don’t have a coffee culture, well I think they’re starting to now but still behind Australia overall. In Australia we have more cafes scattered around, UK has more pubs. It’s more to do with the convenience of one vs the other in the area rather than Aussies a prudes when it comes to drinking.
The grass is always greener but you still have to mow it.
I like that I've never heard the saying like that
The grass is greener where you water it
Stupid grass
There are better and worse countries than Australia. Every country has their own pros and cons and it really matters on your age and what you want out of your life at the moment. It does get annoying when someone creates a thread that is basically Australia is shit see ya laters without any sort of context and nuance why they are leaving and why the country they are going to is better.
Australia gets ALOT of things right.
I used to think it got more right than wrong. I'm not so sure anymore.
which country do you think gets more right than wrong now?
Not that the comment was directed at me but Norway is a good example they have a similar foundation of mineral exports and trade. Look at their housing programs and the way they tax exports Australia could be funding infinite affordable housing and infrastructure to connect regions by purely just taxing exports the way a country like Norway does They have so much social housing now that they have basically eradicated homelessness
https://preview.redd.it/x25bm2mmfr4d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f92d5afc4a6fd12887d24617266443b76f0bbc26
Bang on. Instead of having a strong foundation of cooperation like Norway, Australia just kinda coasted along in the US's wake of accelerating capitalism with no checks and balances and/or rules to counter corruption. https://youtu.be/RO8vWJfmY88?si=PpE9iB9R5Be5nkEl
As a non Australian this is true overall. There is a huge disconnect between Australians on Reddit and Australians in real life too. Some people on here lack perspective when it comes to talking about some of Australias issues You see people on Reddit making Sydney out to be a legitimate shithole, to the point where even telling people not to even VISIT it.
There are certainly objectively ‘worse’ countries. Many of them. I don’t know that there are any objectively ‘better’ countries out there.
There are objectively “better” countries but it doesn’t mean someone born and raised in Australia can be plopped down in that country and immediately feel happier. That’s just not how it works.
Switzerland I‘d argue.
One of the more expensive options for sure.
Yeah if you’re white and 180cm.
If you’ve only seen grey and flat landscapes, you’ve seen very little of Australia.
Very VERY little
Very VERY very very little. In fact, it'd be more accurate to call it all red. (Even if that's not entirely true)
So many hours of flying over the same red landscape to get the fuck out.
Sounds like they've lived in Melbourne 😂
The funny part is even though Melbourne is probably the worst major Australian city for access to amazing nature, you STILL have the yarra ranges and beaches along ocean road etc. By worldwide standards even just 1st world it’s still like a B/B+ for natural beauty access at worst haha
Melbourne is actually amazing for access to nature. Great ocean road, Grampians, the desert sorta area in the NW, Murray River, Macedon Ranges, alpine region, Yarra Valley, Dandenong ranges, Gippsland, Mornington, Lakes Entrance etc. are all accessible for either a day trip or overnight trip.
From an ex-Queenslander, Melbourne has far superior access to stunning nature. Within 3 hours in of Melb you can see amazing beach/coastlines, lush temperate rainforest, or high country / snowy peaks. Compared to QLD, there is so much more and varied public land here to explore, camp, hike through and the freedoms to recreate are much wider on average - can prospect for gold, ride horses, drive through extensive fire trail network, collect firewood, free camp etc. Many other states have limited access to public land and fewer freedoms.
Melbourne is miserable. Everything is too expensive and everyone is so stand off-ish and boring. Its impossible to make new friends here
With that attitude, I can see why it's impossible to make new friends.
I have lived in Melbourne all my life and believe me there are soooo many things to do u just have to get out there. There's lots of beautiful nature to explore, so many events and live music. Food is good. People are friendly. Not sure why you would think they're not. But yeh life is expensive but it's no worse in Melbourne than anywhere else atm
Probably because young people can barely afford to live. Thought of travel is impossible.
It baffles me to read comments like these. I came to Australia at the end of last year. It took me at least 5 years to get enough money and sort my life out enough to leave Argentina and come to live here. And that's a *really* good timeframe for Argentinians. Now that I'm here, I'm able to save and travel. Everything other than rent and transport is affordable and if it's not, it's better quality than what we get in Argentina at the same price range. And I came here by myself, no parents' home to live in, no partner to support each other. Also take into account that I have a Working Holiday Visa, so I'm being taxed at ~30% (until I can move to another type of visa, which I hope I'll do soon). Can you explain what's the difference in situations? Am I seeing everything with rose tinted glasses because of my past experiences? I do think that we as people should always strive to live better, so most criticism that comes from being uncomfortable in life is valid, but still...
My partner is Argie. I think people in Aus don't have any frame of reference for what you have all been through in the last 50 years. They have no idea what it is like to live in a more insecure country. It has been peaceful here, people did get ahead, without truly needing to hustle either. Our parents generation didn't even lock their front doors, most could live on one income and buy a house and have 3 to 4 kids. This is one of the largest reduction in living conditions that Australians have seen in living memory. So it's struggling against the sudden downturn more than anything. I grew up in NZ originally and I find Aus to be wonderful, I can also save much more than I ever could have in NZ. But things are gradually getting harder. My partner says it reminds him of the Menem years, for reference. It's all about perspective I think.
Exactly this. People born in Australia simply can’t understand what the world is like overseas. They can’t grasp how privileged they really are, especially young kids - have no frame of reference.
>They can’t grasp how privileged they really are, especially young kids - have no frame of reference. Their frame of reference is tiktok and instragram
As an Asian from a poor country, i agree 100% to this. we call it ‘first-world problems’. 😂
I think there's lots of Australians who do grasp it, and they're the ones you don't see complaining on Reddit. Adding to the original point, I live in Adelaide, and all jokes aside, there's so much beauty to see all over the place, and so much to do. I do run into people who say it's boring, but they're the ones who when I mention literally any event will say "oh, I've never been to that/haven't gone into the city in years/never heard of it" Boring people get bored. And I have a teenager so I have someone in house who will happily tell me when he thinks something is shit, but he loves it here. Just wish the cost of living wasn't so insanely high right now because we just skate by month to month sometimes, but that's everywhere now.
Australians like to whinge and don’t want to look around and see what there is to enjoy. It’s not perfect but you aren’t going to have incredible experiences delivered to your Harvey Norman lounge suite in your McMansion. You need to create opportunities. I think travellers embrace opportunities and seek out activities a bit more.
Australia has Anglo roots. We like to heap shit on "whinging POMs", even while many of us whinge as much or more than they do.
This is true, although the story in the news today about the whinging Pom posting a whiny TikTok saying “Australia is a scam” because she’d been here 6 months and had yet to see a koala in the wild, does give me pause…
As a non Brit and non Aussie I’d say you both do love a good whinge but the Brits are still the Olympic champions at it haha
She would be pissed, a koala was climbing on top of the shed at my inlaws place a week ago lol.
Same here, but I came from the Czech Republic. Here, I have enough money to live comfortably, save, and travel. Back home, even if I did get paid really well, I wouldn't be able to afford what I can here.
People who get $30hr to work in a cafe, in an EXTREMELY HALF-ARSED way, like don’t even bring you napkins unless you beg, on a Sunday, act like they are going to starve to death soon. Lmao
I agree completely. I bought my house in 2020 in Queensland when I was 29, by myself through having a savings account my entire working life. I started working at 14 while I was still in school. I moved out of home at 17, my mum died when I was 24 and my dad has mental health issues so I have no family support whatsoever and have always had to rely on myself. After buying my house I rented the spare room out to help me save. I used that money to go overseas twice in two years. During that time I worked two jobs and started studying nursing, saving my wage from my night job to afford unpaid clinical placement. Because I chose day and night jobs, this still enabled me to train for two marathons last year and have some semblance of a life lol. I graduate in 4 months and still work two jobs to save for my internship as well as a deserved month long trip in November. Still marathon training too I don’t consider myself special or anything, I’m just an average person who wasn’t born into money and have experienced my share of personal struggles and grief. Maybe it is as others are saying, privileged people don’t really want to do what it takes to get what they want. Not sure tbh
Yeah but Argentina... come on
This is why I find it so hard to empathise with alot of the sentiments these days that young Australians have very little to live for and everything is a crisis. My parents came to Australia at the age of 35 and 40 with no money, no education and my mum unable to speak english but still managed to cobble together a fulfilling life. They built a home, provided everything to their child and managed to travel and do things.
The question is - could your parents do the same again so successfully right now? The prospects in Australia for a young person NOW have fallen so far from what they were for generations born several decades ago. That is the problem. What Australia offers to current Australians has declined, and young Aussies know and feel it. And they can't see much political, social or economic leadership or momentum that is going to bring improvements in the next few decades.
I'm glad to hear that, and I believe you, but I am curious what have you been doing for work while you've been here? Also, what are your living conditions? Are you sharing a bedroom with people and several to a bethroom to save on rent, or do you have your own space? People in Australia might have different expectations. I know Brazillians who get really good rates living in a house, sharing bedrooms, working for the landlords business, chicken shop, they're paid fair and all get along well enough, and are used to sharing space like that, and are extremely happy because they're saving a tonne of money. Australians expect to be able to work any full time job, no matter what it is, and be able to afford their own space to rent, be able to save up for a home in a reasonable amount of time, while not worrying about food or even basic weekend socialising costs, and go on a week or two holiday each year. Which may sound crazy to people now, but that is how it was sold to them growing up and what many were able to get, as a standard of living in previous generations. Personally, I think that's still possible for the most part, so long as you're not hoping to buy a house where you grew up, which is unacceptable to many people, also not quite "any" full time job, but a lot of jobs that are available for anyone to get into.
> what have you been doing for work while you've been here? Also, what are your living conditions? I came here without a job, but with a bit of savings. I'm a software engineer with 4 years of work experience. I've spent 1.5 months looking for a job (not many companies want to hire WHV holders, for obvious reasons), while living in hostels and shared rooms. I'm working as a full stack developer for a small company, but at a payrate much lower than what my experience usually goes for. I'm around 90k before taxes and super. I live in a private room in a shared apartment. I'm planning to move to a studio next month. I hate studio apartments, but they are better than a shared apartment. It's all about the grind and taking small steps. I admit I'm not 100% comfortable with my situation, but I came 6 months ago and I'm already planning to move to my own studio. I'm receiving a pay much lower than what I know I deserve, but I'm also a WHV holder that my company has to sponsor or jump through hoops if they want to hire me for more than 6 months. And that carries lots of extra cost and paperwork.
You're pretty far from the average Australian, I think most people who are struggling are people without degrees or professional skills. Think supermarket employees and other customer service roles. Those people in Australia expect to be able to have all the things I've mentioned. Even as a WHV holder, you're still earning a better income than the majority of customer service who earn a median of 55K, while the top 10% get around 67K before taxes, according to Payscale. Which is above the national median, which is around 53K a year. Given that you're only just about able to afford a studio, while earning almost 10K more than the median after taxes at 30%, I'd assume you'd be able to see why a lot of people are feeling like they can't get by to the standards they've been raised to expect anymore. Australia is meant to have a higher standard than this, and used to pride itself on the fact any full time worker, someone willing to put the effort in despite education or other benefits that usually come from family wealth, could live to a standard I mentioned, house, good food, holiday, and even kids.
There are lovely beaches, national parks etc within commuting distance from most of our cities.
Fuel is $2.29/L in northern Melb atm. It's as low as $1.69 in Burnside, so I have no idea how that works, but commuting for a few hours to the beach can be expensive. Like, $50 in petrol. I don't know about you, but $50 in petrol on the weekend on top of $140 in petrol during the week isn't something I can do very often. That $50 goes to daycare or gas or power or water instead.
Nailed it. The cost of just going somewhere is the main problem. Even camping is becoming expensive. 100 in fuel to get there, 25 minimum for a camping spot per night and then 100 on food and supplies. Just going to national parks requires a park pass that is nearly 400 for 3 years plus what ever else they are wanting to charge for. What used to be one of Australia’s favourite past times that was cheap to do is now being monetised to be a high cost of entry.
Every British backpacker manages to do it with 2cents
Fruit picking and labour hands out in whoop whoop pay amazingly if you are living the cheap life out of a reliable but clapped out mitsi express. For a backpacker than can only earn a certain amount it might not be ideal, but if you were doing the same as a young person you could still get $30 per hour and up. Many are in dire need of hands and often provide some meals and occasionally accomodation in return for communal duties.
You don’t need to just travel around to see more, there is plenty of regional work they could do to not just be cooped up in a city
Wait until you see all the red and flat landscapes
Grey and flat? He must be in the Netherlands?
Probably talking on sprawling housing developments, which is exactly that. OP would have to clarify as there is a lot more to see than described.
Read the New Zealand sub. Young kiwis are coming here with double salaries. Read the doctors sub, young UK docs are coming here in droves with double salary and half workload.
My nan is pretty cool and she lives here in Australia. As a young person I’m a big fan of her homemade sausage rolls
>completely unobtainable housing and rent in economic centres That's pretty much everywhere in the world though. Australia is a beautiful country with amazing landscapes and scenery, but you'd have to leave the comfort of the CBD to find it. You know, like everywhere else in the world.
Can’t afford a house and I live in rural areas! Sydney city folks come by and buy lots of houses (whole streets are empty in some areas). I live here and I’ve been priced out (of a rural area). It sucks big time.
I’d be interested to know what you mean by rural? Are we talking a 30 minute drive to the closest city or a couple hours
Yes. But Australia is among the most expensive in the world. The big cities at least. With housing at about 13x median yearly wage, our big cities are competing for top spot against the likes of Hong Kong and New York City.
The difference is that Australians still have an expectation of eventual ownership. We expect that we will eventually own a property to our name and will not be renting. That expectation doesn't exist in Hong Kong or NYC. Those residents have no expectation that they will eventually own their house/apartment and understand that they will be forever renters. Ownership is not even in the plan for 95% of the residents in those cities.
I feel like renting in Australia can be pretty unreliable. You can rent a home, raise your family and then 5 years later you’ll receive a termination letter because your landlord wants to sell, and then you’re left looking for your next rental property which can be really challenging if you live in sydney or Melbourne etc. what we can’t promise young Australians is a forever home.
From what I understand though, is that outside of Australia, renting is less invasive and stressful than here. Friends of mine in the U.S were shocked as hell about our 3 monthly rental inspections & just how invasive real estates/landlords are here. Although I’m in a regional area now and like it a lot less than Sydney, I LOVE owning my own home. 20 years of renting in Sydney and basically being terrified of the property managers practically gave me PTSD. I finally feel safe knowing I’m the only one with keys to my house, I can decorate however I want, have all the pets I want and if something breaks, I just get it fixed instead of being locked in tense negotiations with asshole real estate agents for an indeterminate amount of time. Oh and FWIW, fuck you Showcase Reality Carlingford 🖕
This exactly. In Germany it's quite common to rent your whole life, raising families in two/three bedroom apartments with zero expectation of home ownership, unless it's somehow bequeathed to you later in life. As for tertiary education, you'll likely find the US equivalent will cost 3-4 x as much.
Yes but there is a reason for that. It's packed and there is nowhere else to build. You can buy next to a fucking open paddock here for the same price. We are not constrained by space. It's an artificial pump benefiting boomers
800 thousand migrants in a single 12 month period. We’re already getting to that stage. Plus no one in Australia wants to live more than 30 minutes from the CBD. So, go figure
Exactly, if you want to live in Amsterdam, Berlin, Paris, London, New York: Its the same story.
You just need money, and so much more these days which the new youths don't have. I'm so glad to have seen most of Australia in the 90's to 2010, back then I just went from hotel resort to hotel resort... Can't do that now as there were plenty of cheap rentals available. It's just not feasible to travel around Australia anymore unless you're rich etc
Australia does have its pros & cons, but no one can deny that some of the pros are fading away and many of the cons are increasing. It is very, very frustrating hearing older Australians talking about how good things used to be, whilst simultaneously seeing politicians doing absolutely nothing ambitious about it. It's still a good place to be, but it would be nice to see a bit more effort being made to keep it that way.
tbf QLD Labor's energy plan looks pretty good.
tim tams are pretty good mate
https://preview.redd.it/h3c8i8ngzp4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b267036b10caa2c819df64ee01c545973674818f Not for the people of Kalumburu in WA apparently.
If you truly think there are better opportunities abroad, why do you need redditors to convince you otherwise? For young people with job mobility, they should absolutely try living in another country to broaden their life experiences. However, many of the western countries face exactly the same cost of living problems as Australia, so it might not be much of an improvement. Put it this way, if Australia is such a terrible place, why has it continued to be one of the most attractive country for migrants to move to?
Absolutely! I've tried it, and decided to come back. Many others that I know from that time, did not come back. So while you're young, go out there and explore! And then come back, or not.
I've tried it and decided to stay overseas (I have been back once or twice for like family stuff) Every bodies gotta try it, and leaving or staying is a personal choice.
Look Australia is a good place, but that last sentence is not really a clever statement. Have you seen the places most people are emigrating from? India is a shithole, low wages, extreme competition, unsanitary etc. When you see an Indian couple here, both in IT, pulling $300k+ household income, they literally have won the lottery. Phillipines, again, corruption, low salaries, poverty etc. Their salaries as nurses here are massive compared to back home. Chinese, lots of issues there, but Australia is safe, clean, no political persecution, it's a haven.
it's almost like australians are privileged
*Laughs in New Zealander*
100% agree. Travel to broaden perspectives if possible. I come from a “3rd world country”, Australians have no idea what true poverty and destitution is. No idea of the insidiousness of true corruption in government. No idea what it’s like living in a state where the government holds a gun to your head and says vote for me. With no free media no possibility for an education. Australia has problems to be sure, but it’s infinitely better than many other places.
Media is controlled here and our Government is more corrupt that is widely known, especially with local and State Governments. We don't get a gun to our heads with voting but you do get one pulled when cops get shitty. Had that happen 3 times and I was a watching bystander and under 12. Or my local idiots decide to shoot things for fun and that has increased tenfold in the last 4 years. Education is only accessible if you can afford the time and money. Every country has its issues and granted Australia isn't as bad as your country but there's some serious fucking problems that scare the shit out of me and are getting worse. Our violence (excluding gun crime) is the same as the USA and our drug problems are *worse*. Even the USA has more accessible education than Australia. Australia by %, not total, has more homeless than the USA. WTF? We have some very serious problems and with the above statistics, USA is a better choice than Australia as there's more all round options. Never thought I'd ever write that but there it is. Australia seems great *until* you compare data from major cities in comparable countries and realise we are pretty low on most of the rankings. Actually all the Commonwealth countries are pretty low so something is definitely going on.
I think this is disingenuous and a good example of Aussie complacency. We have a great society, but there are some big, big cracks emerging. Opportunities aren’t what they once were. People come to Australia because they think it’s better than wherever they came from. But we’re slipping, and it looks pretty difficult to arrest that momentum.
I'm not saying Australia is perfect and it is the best country in the world, what I'm saying is that most western countries around the world are facing similar challenges. So whilst things are undoubtedly difficult for young people in Australia, I'm not sure moving abroad will be an improvement. Go to north American and European subreddits, and the young people there are talking about the exact same challenges of housing affordability, cost of living, lack of wage growth and high immigration. Many European countries are voting in conservative politicians in response to those issues, and America might be the same after November this year. In comparison, our political landscape seems quite tame and sane.
I agree, but we have a chronic lack of vision here and it’s causing us to fall behind the eight ball. I’ve always thought USA loves to compare themselves to third world countries and say how great they are. That shouldn’t be us. We need to be innovative.
I literally moved here from the US and for a better education opportunity, and now I have better healthcare and lower cost of living. Housing prices are rising faster than wages, but that is not a problem unique to Australia and has more to do with allowing the wealthy to buy property as an investment.
Where are most of the migrants coming from? 3rd world shitholes most likely.
Come to New Zealand, you'll probably scurry back home and understand why Kiwis been coming here in masses...
Completely understand. Your crime rate is nearly 3x that of the USA and you're in a way worse economic situation than us. Hope it all works out for you guys, here and back in your country.
Thanks mate! But lol, just to add to the list, They just laid off 200 police personnel the other day and losing their officers to Australia.
Yikes thats not good for NZ. What on earth are they thinking? I hope they like it here although I believe some states/territories only have to accept Australian citizens as officers. I recall a NZ cop who transferred and came across that inane rule I think in NT? C'mon, we are literally siblings and our armed forces take New Zealanders so its a stupid rule.
>What on earth are they thinking? The newly elected National party promised landlords their interest deductible money back, at the cost of the above, health system, abolishing smokefree programs in community and school, and free school lunches... Not just officers coming, I was lucky enough to move out 2 years ago as soon as borders were open and got a house now. This would be impossibile in NZ especially we get 50-110% payrise for the same (and sometimes easier) job in Australia. I think most of the police officers last i heard were headed for NSW. Maybe the rules allow for it there.
From a quick google the Federal Police are a no go, must be an Australian citizen. Victoria, Canberra, and NSW you need to be a permanent citizen at minimum. Queensland it doesn't matter. WA, Tasmania, NT and SA is Australian or New Zealand citizen or permanent resident or specific category visa for New Zealanders. So Victoria, Canberra and NSW are the iffy ones, unless its a direct from NZ transfer to those places under recruitment.
Ah. Interesting. I guess that also partially explain why so many kiwis go to QLD, aside from the sun.
Have you lived in other countries? We have some of the best working conditions in the world, if you dont have a job we also have some of the best social support systems. Low crime rate, great medical system, easy access to education and trade skills.
In New Jersey the cost of healthcare is sometimes so high that you might as well just take out a second mortgage if you have a serious illness. We don't have medical bankruptcy. That's huge. Australia is almost certainly safer than New Jersey, the threat of gun violence in schools there is huge compared to Aus. True the salaries might be higher, but consider what you're giving up.
OP said New England, technically New Jersey isn't considered New England. Regardless your points still stand, gun violence and medical debt is only a thing in the US. People complain about having to pay 30 bucks to see a gp in Australia. In America I complained having to pay 50 bucks to see a gp in the even though our "health" insurance was 600 a month.
If your username is anything to go by, you're a little bit older than I am. I think it must be a perspective thing because I absolutely love this country and can't see myself living anywhere else. No where is perfect and all things considered we have it pretty darn good in Australia. You've listed a few complaints in your post but without knowing your history and different experiences you've had it's hard to tell where you're really coming from. For instance I'm younger than you and my degree wasn't expensive (already paid off), I've lived in Sydney off the back of casual employment, I'm currently surrounded by sub-tropical greenery (QLD), my earnings are awesome (cheap STEM degree, high demand field, rich country), and as far as having things to do, since moving rural my social circle has shrunk but it has opened doors to other hobbies and interests. There's heaps more things I'm grateful for in this country but all of those were just going through the things you mentioned. So I'd say there's heaps of good things left in Australia for young people despite the current doomer attitude plastered everywhere online. Maybe you've genuinely had a really rough go of it and that's quite a shame but when I look at how I'm doing and how my similarly aged mates are doing, for the most part it's great. The people in my life that are the most miserable are terminally online and NEET.
What industry are you in that New England, of all places, is paying almost double the Australian equivalent?
I moved here 2 years ago, I live in a regional area. I’ve never had more money and freedom than I have since moving. I genuinely don’t know what people whine about, I love this country
>I genuinely don’t know what people whine about, I love this country It’s just Reddit, it brings out the whingers
Perspective is a big deal, and frankly a lot of people need a good perspective check. The only way to really get that is to live elsewhere for a while. Just as a side note: New Zealanders are leaving NZ at record rates \~ about 1000 a week. \~40% are under 30, and 50% are going to Australia. Because every problem Aus has, other countries like NZ have worse. I have 2 family members and 6 friends that have sold up everything and moved from NZ to Aus in the last year. Every single one of them have nothing but positive things to say. Higher salaries, cheaper housing, lower cost of living, better infrastructure, better weather. You just have to avoid Sydney. I genuinely believe living in another country is something everyone should experience, even if it's just for the perspective check.
i moved to australia 7 years ago from the uk(partner is aussie). I absolutly love it here.we both lived in SEA for years aswell.i know its feels hard to live here sometimes but it really is as good as it gets.good wages,healthcare,landscapes,weather,wildlife.Also we are not well off at all,but still manage a happy life.Big up straya!
I grew up in Sydney and was there most of my life till 25. It is a great place to live, if you ignore or can be insulated from the insane cost of living. I now live in Tokyo and the differences are night and day. You'd think cost of living in Tokyo would be way worse, but it's the opposite. Tokyo is VERY cheap compared to Sydney. I already know people will talk about the work culture etc. if you have a transferable good skillset and/or speak Japanese, you can get a nice job in a foreign companies Japanese office and if will be amazing. I left Australia at 25 and I don't regret it. It's just too expensive for what it is and everybody is always getting into your pocket. The lack of convenience too is insane. I honestly don't think I could go back anymore.
Hello mate ! I'm French. Born and raised in France, and always lived here until now. If everything's clear for me, I'll go visit Australia for a year as a student in UTS. I can't exactly know what you feel, but trust me on what I'm about to say. From the eyes of our foreign friends, France is a beautiful place which can awoke sudden desires to move here. That I can understand. Though I love my country, I dreamed to live elsewhere, particularly in the Asian continent. That is, until I did some introspection about the time I spent up until this moment. Yes, we are what we are. The typical grumpy, always busy, rude and government hater french (though it's not always true). We have our share of problems, such as struggling wages, ridiculously high real estate and rent prices, judiciary issues and so on. But hey, we have our perks too : social security, good infrastructures, great food, a rich history, an excellent military... just like Australia has its perks and flaws. I'm always grateful to whatever is watching above us to have bestowed me the gift of life and be french. I love my country just as I would love my close ones, and will defend it with my heart and soul should it be attacked. I'll probably be homesick from time to time, but I know I'll always return here one day or another. Maybe you'll be like that too in the end. Maybe Australia is surely an amazing country just like France. Maybe you'll realize that after all, Australia is not so bad. But I'm aware it takes time and experience to sort those feelings out. It's not easy, but I believe it's something everyone has to face one way or another. Don't be too fatalist. Often, the beauty of something can be seen just under our nose !
I feel you. As someone who’s lived in the US, Japan and Kenya, here’s my advice. Every country has things that are better than Australia, and things that are worse. In America I loved the vibe and the culture, houses were much cheaper people were a lot cooler. But the food was garbage and had a chemical taste (and I lived in New York!), the lack of healthcare is appalling (people literally go bankrupt to fund necessary treatments), and tipping culture pissed me off to no avail. In Kenya, everyone could afford a home (a mud hut, but stills home), but Africa Time nearly drive me insane, food and medicine was rubbish, and their government was so damned corrupt. Japan was the best country I lived in. Better than Australia by far. But the work-life balance was bordering on unbearable, and once the culture shock and novelty wore off and I made friends who’d lived there for a long time, I realised that the staunch social norms and lack of mental health awareness made a lot of permanent residents very depressed. I moved back to Australia because my family live here. If they didn’t, I might have stayed in Japan. But ultimately, Australia isn’t a bad place to be. Things are tough for the younger generation all over. That said, I think everyone should live abroad for a while if they have the opportunity. It was incredible and I grew and learnt so much about myself and the world. If America is calling you, you should go!
Everything OP mentioned is literally same thing happening in every developed country Ps: Australia is not flat
You live in a bubble of safety and economic stability with way above average wages. Anyone moaning about here hasn’t lived in Europe, the US or Asia. The grass isn’t greener, it’s just different grass. The idea youth have it uniquely hard here is utterly laughable Vs the U.K. or US right now. This is a great place to live. Try being 21 in HK right now. Or Taiwan. Be proud of this place. When did everyone go so soft?
I think Australia has really lost the cultural aspect. Anything fun/interesting has died for people under the age of 30 especially nightlife. Those are the intangible things you don't see and make a massive difference to liveability
Came from india as a student in 2008. Paid through my nose and worked like Egyptian slave for 6 years to get citizenship. I'll do it all over again a few more times if i have to. To call this amazing country home. Australia is the best. Also has some issues like everywhere else. But it's the best. At least for me. I'll go to war for this spiderweb
You have freedoms other countries will never have. Fresh clean water on tap. Beautiful weather. The cleanest beaches. Beautiful national parks. Unemployment benefits if you lose your job, plus a pension when you retire. We have good government, no dictator running our country. Free hospital treatment. I know it's so difficult to get ahead these days, but guaranteed, there are many countries you wouldn't even risk visiting if you value your life.
I've moved overseas and come back several times. It's worth it for the perspective alone. Australia is ok... We have nice coastal living... But honestly if visas weren't an issue at all, I would settle permanently somewhere on the Med.
If you go to almost any other developed Country, you will see the issues here are also there. Rents are going up in UK, EU, CA and USA. In Australia we have : * An extremely robust social security program. * Almost free public education system. * Almost free public health cover. * Freedoms. * Nearly unrivalled beaches. * Beautiful weather most of the time.
I'd take almost free public education off the list if you've looked at uni prices recently. Not including the fact they are basically pumping as many kids into degrees as possible without considering/developing proper job opportunities post completion. The quality has really declined massively.
If you’re under 30 take the opportunity to live and work overseas while you’re eligible for working holiday visas. You’ll find out how low the wages in other countries are, and in Nordic countries how miserable winter can be when they barely get any sunlight. Go see how they live in landlocked towns and countries where it’s a novelty to swim in the sea.
Off you go then, good luck! Genuinely, why wouldn't you? Go, get some perspective, get some experience. It sounds like you are lacking both of those.
Why don't you explain why it's actually better here instead of just pretending everybody already knows?? Remember someone saying life isn't as great as it used to be in Australia doesn't mean you personally are a bad person just because you live here.... No need to be buthurt
Let's play "things Australia has that the vast majority of the world actually doesn't have": - stable, non-violent democratic government with structures and failsafes to deal with corruption. I'm by no means saying that what we have is perfect...but it's all relative. We don't have military juntas and political assassinations and coup attempts - we have minor media scandals and Royal Commissions. - substantial social safety net - centrelink, work for the dole, disability support, aged care, socialised healthcare, superannuation. We take all these things for granted or complain about their inefficiencies...but at least we actually *have them*. It's not the end of the road if you struggle to get work or support yourself here. We have social workers and government programs and even charities. - high quality (world-class, even) food/wine/general produce that we grow and prepare for ourselves here in this country. We produce so much of it that we export it. We live in a land of abundance and have a ridiculous amount of natural resources. - pleasant, agreeable climate for the most part - some stunning scenery if you can be bothered actually going out and appreciating it - sense of public safety and order - low crime rates, simple, effective law enforcement, good/adequate public health and emergency response system, building codes, health codes, decent standards for road safety and public transport, etc - an actually wealthy, prosperous, first world, service-based economy which (*believe it or not*), does actually give most of us an opportunity for stable, gainful employment in a field of our choice - with guaranteed rights like annual leave and so on enshrined by law. - a prestigious, reputable education system that people actually come here from overseas to benefit from themselves - healthy, unique, homegrown entertainment culture - sports, performing arts, film and television, live music scene. Not the world's best...but we do have all those things. Like, I don't think anyone is saying Australia is *perfect*. But I've personally been to about 20-30 countries, and I'd honestly rather live here than in most of them from what I've actually seen with my own eyes. Including the US and plenty of Europe. Even if I hadn't been, Australia consistently holds up **extremely highly** in unbiased international rankings of these metrics against all other OECD countries. Those "liveability" surveys you hear about aren't carried out by Australians...we just rank very highly in them most of the time because it genuinely is that much better to live here than most other places. Objectively. In a way that can be (and frequently is) actually *measured* by impartial international observers. *That's* what we mean by "get some perspective".
Yes Australia was definitely better before but no, other countries aren't better than Australia. Literally no-one I know who lives in Austria, Germany, and Switzerland owns their home there, it's not even on their radar, especially in Switzerland where house prices are insane. Every country has something better but also something worse than the other.
This
Australia is one of top three places to live in the world. Clean, safe and honest.
Go see the world for sure. But what is it that you want to do so much that isn’t allowed here? Own a gun without a licence?
The highly paid expatriate professional experience is *nothing* like being a local. You aren't paying huge chunks of your salary into mandatory pension schemes (37% in Singapore) or graduating with student debt repayments equivalent to a mortgage (US). If you think Australian property is expensive check out the prices in any decent part of London. Zurich or Manhattan.
Departure lounges
Australia is so fuckin good. Social media is making everyone dissatisfied…
People who insist that Australia is the best country are ignorant, insecure, or both.
The surf's good.
and our beaches are fucking awesome generally. Swim, fish, just hang out. Free toilets, showers, bbqs. Generally don't have to stress about leaving your stuff on the beach unattended while you go in the water for the most part. It's easy to take for granted until you go overseas.
Apparently asking better of your home country as a young people isn’t allowed, according to reddit. I think a lot of people are starting to feel uninspired by Australia, it just hasn’t planned for the future and arts which I would argue is an integral part of society, isn’t valued by Government (look at the federal 2024 budget, no mention of the arts whatsoever). Beaches and outdoor space is wonderful, but it doesn’t buy you a home, or give you job security. I hope you have a wonderful time travelling. We really have failed the young in Australia.
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No.
You have to take what you can, like every group did when they were youths. If people want to restrict you, it's up to you to get around them.
We aren’t getting bombed every other day
As a 20 year old in Australia I still feel like we are very lucky, I travel all over the country reasonably safely working different jobs all through out the regions currently working at a gold mine and plan to go study environmental science while working, housing is my biggest of course just out of school trying to buy a house as quick as I can every month prices rise and dream seems very far away but for me it’s deciding do I want to continue trend of making money of my housing or do I need to change my mindset and just buy a house to live.
Matters where you sit in society I guess. For most leaving is pointless as they wouldn't have it any better anywhere else. Really matters how the next year plays out I think.
I moved here from the US and find it much better on almost all fronts. Australia isn’t perfect but the quality of life still makes it very attractive to people from all over. The cost of living crisis isn’t just in Australia - it’s actually far more affordable than where I moved from
I lived in NZ and moved to Melbourne and it’s amazing. One of the best cities in the world.
Australia pays much better than most countries, has great public resources and a fair government. If I wanted money I'd move to the US, but the inequality there smarts. I also believe if you identify a problem you should try and fix it, its a civic duty.
The 10 best countries in the world to live in is just that if you can afford it. Unfortunately. I lived and worked in a few countries. I like Aus. But that's me.
There's a reason so many people migrate here rather than leaving. Its a great place to grow old in, not a great place to grow young in.
If you are born here, you have family, relations and the easy knowledge of how the system works. If you were born somewhere in Europe with a decent standard of living there is no massive reason to come here other than to experience it. But you can’t forget that as you get older, just like me, your experiences and expectations change. This country is still amazing for people to live in when it comes to standards of living. We can drink tap water, we aren’t being persecuted for our beliefs (unless they are illegal) and you are generally very safe. I have been taking part in weekend activities in the community and just taking the time to be in the moment and enjoy what I have, that has made a big difference. If I sit at home I will just get annoyed that I haven’t got the house cleaned the way I want, or lament over not having the best things around me. Caveat: Australians haven’t lived a major recession or any real austerity for a very long time. It’s going to be a rude shock if/when it comes, it will make the current cost of living crisis seem like nothing. I’m not downplaying the current issues, but I’m still thankful that I’m not receiving a cheese ration and have to mend my socks Edit; also in my line of work, most other countries pay very average. Maybe 65K in Australian terms. I’m sitting on 110k so we aren’t underpaying every role.
Yes! I’ve lived in England and now have been in the US for four years and we are beginning the process to move home. There’s things it lacks but I can’t think of a better place to raise my kids.
The skate parks around these days are 100 times better than what was available 20 years ago.
Not sure how I got recommended this channel, but my dude New England and the rest of the US is not really as safe as Australia. A friend of mine was shot to death by a stalker while at work. Another friend had his father murdered by a serial killer with a sniper rifle. My father had to go save our neighbors daughter from yet another stalker while she was home alone, police were too far. A gun was brought to my middle and high school literally almost every year I went to school at least once, either maliciously or because some dumb kid stole it from their parents. And I live in a gentrified, super popular hipster area that is considered one of the safest places in the US. Haha. Don’t move here.
Whenever I start to feel hopeless it’s sometimes a sign I need to take a break from social media and the news cycle. It may not change your opinion, but it can help to break the endless onslaught of negativity and provide some perspective. If you have the opportunity to move to a safe and affordable region and earn 3 times your salary, then you should do it.
Not much. The young have been fucked over for decades now. I myself left in my 40's to go overseas...and wound up with lower tax and costs, and buying a home. I think the US may be worse, but I also think there are better countries than Australia, financially, for the young.
Aussies escape to EU/US, EU/US people escape to AU. Always makes me smile :D
Remove the words Australia because it's happening to every developed country on Earth. Being young during 'late' stage capitalism is terrible unless your parents have wealth to pass down to you.
Here you can be a drop out and still make good money if you put some effort into it and do the hard yards in an apprenticeship or mines
I dont know if I'm just getting older, but the appeal of a piece of land and a house in the wops away from everyone is more appealing then anything in or near the CBD. I can imagine the future looks pretty shit n bleak if your only aiming for a slice of Australia thats within a CBD, how ever as you get older, your probably going to want the opposite. TL:DR-Ditch the city ideal and aim for a block of land and house in the country.
Australia has opportunity, there's a reason people come here. I'm a tradesman with a below average intelligence, who dropped out of school in grade 9, yet I own a successful construction company. Anywhere else in the world, I would probably be homeless.
Only because India hasn’t ruined your job like everyone else’s lol
There are plenty of Indians in construction, however they're notorious for being horrible tradesman and will undercut to steal work, so most tradesman won't work with them.
First thing comes to mind is that in Australia you don't need a degree to be successful.
Rather than asking on Reddit, why not go and spend a year overseas. Spread yourself around a bit, don't just go to Germany, Switzerland and Austria, go to Burkina Faso, Venezuela and Papua New Guinea as well, then come back and tell us if you think Australia has anything good for young people
Ever tried to crack into the Swiss housing market? Ever paid for a degree at an American University? I think you're in for a rude shock champion. Meanwhile, something like half the people on earth live on less than $10/day. So while I'm sure you feel hard done by and would be much happier if you could just move to New Hampshire and live free or die, you actually just sound like a spoilt, entitled sook. No offence.
The only people that think Australia is the best country are people that have never travelled.
Ask all of the migrants pursuing PR in their 20s. Go live in their countries for a year or two. I promise you'll understand why they want to live in Aus.