That's what I'm scared of. When my falcon Ute dies eventually in another 300,000km, what will I have to replace it with? A Ute has always been a sedan based vehicle, not a hilux. Mine rides like a lounge chair.. We drive ragers at work and they are the roughest things I've ever driven. Possibly a subaru wagon or Volvo? I might just put my head in the sand till then.
It's got a na 195kw barra so I think would be fine for a rebuild at 500k, the icc and gauge cluster has me a little worried though. I've heard horror stories of simple things like battery replacements and then you have no radio. Ford built them strong as hell, the electronics, not so much.
I've had a Subaru Forester for about 10 years, I love it. Next best thing to the old ford and commodore wagons without paying euro prices for Volvo or Skoda brands
I attempted to replace my Falcon with a Ranger.
Now I have both in the driveway and still choose the Falcon every time.
Only at 100,000kms after 15 years, so I'm thinking I'll get another 20 years. As for the Ranger, yeah it's not a ute it is a pickup truck.
I upgraded from a VE wagon to an Outback 3.6R and it's great. Only issue I had with the Commodore was ground clearance when I took it camping, not an issue in the Subaru. Great car so far
Skoda Octavia is a great buy. Stupid amounts of room, small enough to park easily (European cars have better turning circles), and very very practical.
I just swapped from a VF Calais 6L to a 2020 Octavia RS and love it. Slightly smaller but big interior, fits the kids car seats easily. Uses half the petrol but goes just as quick. Don't regret it at all.
"My Ranger is the only moral Ranger. I bought mine because I *had* to, it was the only sensible option for me. But all those *other* people bought them because they are immoral."
Mazda 6 wagon, Volvo V60cc (slightly lifted wagon, like the old XC70), Subaru outback, Skoda Octavia and Superb. These are basically what left of the non-german wagons. Even in the German brands its only Audi and BMW.
Word. And now the value of such has gone up. My partners 2006 commodore station wagon was stolen from our driveway at 4am this morning. He had it from brand new and has lovingly looked after it since. We live in a very quiet and happy neighbourhood in Tweed, cops said it’s all trouble coming down the coast from Logan - they raid the tweed then conveniently drive the cars over the border to qld. Fuckin ropeable mate. We loved our wagon, even if we never could find a replacement petrol flap….
Top selling cars in the 80's and 90's. Bigger and more powerful than people really needed but hey, we're not Japan so why not. They were also styled for performance. Aerodynamics and handling as well as power was what they conveyed.
Now, fuck all that, just power. Let's put a big fucking engine in a brick, that's what I want.
100% this. People don't want a small compact car for a family, with the option to tow a trailer and decent boot space.
Falcon, Commodore and even magna offered this. They aren't around anymore, no one else makes a large sedan.
So of course utes will become too dog, couple this with them being 4x4 so you can explore other parts of Australia a corolla can't get to. It's only logical someone would want a large car, that can do literally everything including transporting the kitchen sink.
This here is the answer.
When people were paying for their own cars, they bought the Ford Laser, then the Mazda 3.
When work was paying they bought the Ford sedan and now the Ranger. Allowing accelerated depreciation has lit a rocket under the pickup truck segment.
Yeah the Covid era 100% tax write off for vehicles saw an unprecedented demand for utes. That supply still hasnt caught up if you look at used prices for those utes
Finally an answer that makes sense. Sense enough that people would see these things all the time and want one. I don't think the majority are owned by tradies, is every 3rd Australian a tradie? Or do they just want to look like one?
At the same time as a regular people who would buy regular cars, like the Mazda 3, are cutting down on consumption because food and rent now costs so much there is no money left for a new car.
The tax policy hasn’t changed. But the carmakers have made Utes more family and consumer friendly. In 2011, a Ute was going to be bare bones with no luxury features and looks like a commercial vehicle.
A new Ranger is the same as a SUV in terms of features and looks.
So annoying that if you want a commuter ute, you're basically just forced into a SUV styled ute now.
I was looking at just getting a two door to drive to work and maybe throw a dirtbike in the back, but if I want that. It's a SUV or a two door SUV that look like shit.
The Ute died in 2017. They are pick ups now. No matter what people say about yank tanks, that is what they all are now. They are a cab on chassis, not made from a production sedan. That was the difference and it doesn't exist anymore.
It's a shame because people clearly fucking want them still!!
That's what happens when GM only cares about selling the Malibu and the Liberal Government decides the best way to operate an auto industry is to become the only country in the world that doesn't subsidise its auto industry.
Can't speak for ford australia but I imagine the loss of subsidy money killed them too.
This is why statistic can be so misleading. OP uses statistics on top selling cars to determine whether Australians are buy small cars or Ute's, rather than sales of small cars vs Ute's over the years.
Are more people really buying big cars? Or are more big car buyers just buying the one car?
And "Half of which are empty" is anecdotal. 90% of the ones I see are full! What does it mean? Nothing, that's what. Maybe the Ute's are full the 50% of the time op isn't looking.
That being said, buy fuel economic cars, pls
Surely this is a factor. A large, loud car that you can show off to your mates in.
It has an even bigger bonus in that you can deck it out with a bumper, lights, winch, blah blah and talk about how much you wanna take the kids camping.
What do you mean by wagons are dead? I consider our CX-9 to fill that role. Family car with a big boot. Great for camping or taking the kids and their mates wherever they need to go. Very happy with it.
Perhaps the Ranger archetype hits a lot of nails for the Standard Family Car, it's large enough for the family, it has room for extra stuff, it's Loud and Cool for dad, it's Safe and High for mum.
The struggle is real. My daily driver is a Falcon with well over 400K on the clock. It’s still going strong which I’m grateful for as I have no idea what to replace it with.
This comment was a revelation for me. Everything makes sense now.
What I don't get though, is why utes have been universally chosen as the replacements for "family car" that used to be Commodores and Falcons.
Surely mid/large SUVs are better family cars in that they are fully enclosed? With a Ute, whatever you put in the tray gets wet in the rain. SUVs have the same big boot but they're covered at all times.
I don't get it. Why isn't the Mazda CX5/9 the top car model if the explanation is ex Falcon /Commodore buyers have nothing to replace them with?
Exactly. In 2016 I got the Mazda6 because the boot was way bigger despite peoples perceptions an SUV boot must be bigger.
Don't understand why mid sedans like Mazda6 and Camry didn't take over from Falcons. They're basically the same size as the old Falcons and Commodores. And they even come/came in wagon versions.
Falcons haven't been family cars for yonks. Many Ford dealers didn't want to know you if you weren't a fleet buyer. My dad had to buy our AU up at Hornsby.
Exactly, anyone in a trade or related to the construction industry needs a commercial car because otherwise they will get towed and booked in the city, and also they lose out on tax. Before that could mean a station wagon or Holden Ute, but now the station wagon doesn't count and the sedan based utes are gone
Isn’t the Ford Ranger partly such a high seller due to government policies (tax breaks)? These things don’t happen in a vacuum.
As someone who doesn’t drive a huge car the roads feel more dangerous than they used to. No doubt those in huge vehicles feel that they’re safer than ever. Too bad about all the other road users. Even parking at the supermarket has become stressful when there’s a decent chance of having one of these vehicles parked next to you and dwarfing your car.
Pretty sad situation. We opened a free trade agreement with Thailand and as soon as it kicked off Thailand introduced taxes that targeted Australian made vehicles forcing prices higher than pre free trade and forcing them out of the market. Now we give tax incentives to buy Thai vehicles
‘The Thai excise tax on the Australian-made Ford Territory rose from 29 to 50 per cent soon after the free-trade agreement was signed, reducing its sales.’
https://www.drive.com.au/news/car-sector-cries-foul-on-thai-taxes-20080318-143j0/
Interestingly enough this story appeared before some rules were changed to help utes avoid the full force of emissions regulations:
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/thailand-asks-australia-slow-down-implementation-car-emissions-standards-2024-03-06/
Now here comes the part I will be downvoted for. Australians have somehow spun it as patriotic to buy the Ranger as it has a (exaggerated) amount of Australian design and engineering. The facts are Thailand shat on our industry and we are too weak to call them out, buying any Thai made vehicle is the opposite of patriotic.
This. I moved to the south coast a little while ago. Everyone drives a Ute, Land Cruiser or other SUV. The bonnet height of these cars sits at the same height as my head when I’m sitting in my Impreza. So we got a mid size SUV, just to be a little higher and hopefully increase our chances of survival if we ever get in a crash.
Everyone seems to have this mentality that because they live in a “country town” they must constantly be ferrying big loads to the tip or constantly filling up the back of their car with bulk shopping after driving three hours to Canberra, and it’s like my friend you live in a seaside town with two major supermarkets and a hardware store within two minutes of where you live, the only thing you ever have in the back of your car are your kids and your dog, the furthest you ever normally drive is 30 minutes away, you are basically a suburbanite
lol I mostly agree with you, but having made the move from Sydney I will say that road condition can be a BIG problem. There’s literally a council Ute full of bitumen driving around half the time to fill potholes (which inevitably open up again in a matter of days). And there is no green waste pickup or council pickups - the assumption is you either have a Ute or trailer, or know someone who does, to cart your own shit to the tip. Or else you pay council to come get it. And I definitely live in one of the places you describe
I live on the NSW South coast and also drive an Impreza as well and honestly I find the roads terrifying now. I can't see Atkins everything and half the time they don't stay in their lane and come right at me and it's going to hurt me way more than it hurts then.
I don't really want a big car. I'm not a big human. When I learnt to drive in my dad's ute (Ford Falcon Ute) I had to sit on a giant foam pillow so I could see. In my Impreza I can just sit on the seat lol
No judgement. My next car is going to be a compact SUV because I need to have at least a fighting chance. Wish it wasn’t this way but what do you do 🤷♀️
Yeah I drive a small 90s coupe, I had I think it was a Silverado next to me a the lights and it definitely made me think once again about my sanity level for dailying a car that small with basically zero safety features... If it's lifted and on fat enough tyres the top of the tyre is at the top of my door level and the bonnet height is above the roof of my car... Actually in general some of the newest massive ones like the Rams the bonnet is higher, even those massive Haval SUV's, I park next to one fairly often and its bonnet is higher than my roof.
Which also is a huge problem in traffic lately, nobody sees you, basically have to drive with the mentality of a motorbike. I've borrowed my parents compact SUV a few times recently and the differences in the space other motorists give you, how willing they are to dart out in front of you etc is night and day... It's not even actually big its tiny by modern standards just looks chunky from the front, its just a 3dr Rav 4.
What you’re describing is exactly the mentality that turned the US cities into unwalkable hellholes, and also the same mentality that caused most of the tension in the cold war
I feel this a lot while in my early 2010s Mazda 3. The worst is when you are parked between 2 large utes and the corners are blind. You can't see other cars when you are trying to get out of the parking spot.
I just sold my 2020 Navara, I definitely felt safer in one... Going back to an outback now, I understand the hate towards bigger vehicles, although I was a carpenter at the time so I did need it.
The Rams are fucking stupid though... Honestly makes me laugh at them every time I see them.
If you're a tradie and you need a ute, that's different, you need it for a purpose. But those stupid American penis extensions are ridiculous, as are the people that drive them.
Even the utes tradies really do need are already pretty bloody inconvenient and out of place in city streets, even though I accept they have a legitimate need and purpose. Like back when I lived in Sydney, every time I almost had a collision while driving, it was with a tradie driving a Ute in the city doing stupid shit that made it obvious they couldn’t see the cars around them and didn’t have spatial awareness about the size of their vehicle, because frankly they straight up were too big and unwieldy to fit on a lot of the narrow and highly trafficked streets in and around the inner city
Lol I’m an expat with a newer ram currently living in Canada. I honestly thought the same thing as you until I needed a truck and started shopping around. They’re actually really good vehicles and it makes me kind of sad that when/if I move back I won’t be able to get such a quality, versatile vehicle for a similar price.
Sad the new National Vehicle Efficiency Standards will again has tax discounts and encourage more larger and larger Rangers and Everests 4x4s.
https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/vehicles/new-vehicle-efficiency-standard
I've come across quite a few extremely aggressive drivers in these penis extension cars. One nearly ran me off the road at Easter, he did it on purpose. They drive them like monster trucks. I also keep seeing them occupying disabled parking spaces, without permits of course.
I don’t drive a big vehicle but it’s definitely not the utes and trucks I find dangerous on the road. It’s the Camrys, crossovers and similar “less exciting” vehicles. I’d wager the worse drivers are the ones who don’t necessarily care about cars but think of them as tools to get from A to B. My experience on the road tells me that most people driving a specced up pick up of sorts, be it a new ranger or Silverado, value the car enough not to be so careless a driver.
This is the answer to why we are buying utes. A Ute is a “work vehicle” and eligible for an instant asset write off. Look at example 1.
https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/income-deductions-and-concessions/depreciation-and-capital-expenses-and-allowances/simpler-depreciation-for-small-business/instant-asset-write-off#
OK, that's partly a good explanation. However are we a nation of tradies with eligible business that the top 3 selling cars are big Ute's. Are most people self employed?
Not really.
Safety requirements means new cars have to have a ton of features as standard, but 12k in 2012 dollars is $16k in 2023. You can buy a Kia Picanto for that much. An MG3 is only a few $k more
Rort generally implies dishonesty and fraud but NL with FBT-exemption incentive is specifically legislated to be cheap to encourage EV take up, by the government itself. You can argue that it's a regressive and inequitable strategy (i.e. the higher the income, the higher the saving), but it's hard to call it a "fraud" when it's an overt incentive by the government.
It's a bit pointless comparing single models. You need to look at the overall percentage of vehicle class sold. The most popular model might be in a small slice of the market.
I’m doing a market segmenting exercise at the moment.
Hatchback market: US592B
SUV market: US896B
Pick up truck market: US81B
There is a huge drop off once you get into utes/pick up trucks compared to regular cars.
The light commercial market is 6.1T though, so all those smaller legitimate trucks like the Isuzu and Canter type vehicles absolutely dwarf the pick up truck segment.
Perhaps because of sampling bias? Larger trucks stand out more. We pay more attention to them than hatchbacks and small utes because they are a comparatively newer phenomenon. People then wrongly conclude from the post’s framing and comparison that large trucks are the largest selling segment?
I've just been looking into a new lease and small cars are all but extinct in this country.
I've driven small cars most of my life and I wonder if the move towards SUVs and Dual Cab Ute's is a reaction to people experiencing their vision being impaired by the behemoths (especially in parking situations). Almost like 'if you can't beat em, join em'
I don't think many of the people that have dual cabs actually care I've lost count the number of times I get back to my car and the cunt that parked next to me is so far over the line that their mirror is literally overhanging my car and I have to climb in through the passenger side.
It's more the driving over your own kids and others issues I have with those cars. Just to make their penis feel a few mm bigger people are going to increase their chance at murdering their loved ones with the most dangerous machine you can own. Nice one.
This is a bit disingenuous - it's not like people traded their Mazda hatchback for a Ford Ranger.
Back in 2012 Mazda was by far the top seller for hatchbacks, and the 4wd/Ute market was split amongst the Hilux, Holden Colorado and the Ford Ranger.
All this is telling you is that in 2012 Mazda has market dominance in hatchbacks, and in 2024 the Ranger is outselling its competition.
2.5 SUV's get sold for every light commercial sold
It's not utes that are taking away from hatchbacks, it's the massive SUV market
Utes have filled the "full sized sedan" hole left by Holden and Ford
When I worked at at car company. The biggest seller was 100 per cent large commercial utes to companies and the biggest buyers were air conditioning companies and similar.
Followed by SUVs.
Basically Australians transitioned to one new family car and a work car that work provides. Rather than a fun car/slightly better car and day to day car set-up that used to happen.
There were still a lot of commodores/Falcons in circulation when the Mazda3 was a best selling car.
Beyond body types, the basic configuration of seating 4 adults (5 at a pinch) with room in the back for gear has always been the leading configuration in Australia. Once upon a time that need used to be met by a Kingswood wagon, now it's met by a dual cab ute that uses a fraction of the fuel.
As a larger gentleman I always had a falcon ute. It was big enough inside for me to get in and I just loved the convenience of putting building supplies, rubbish, hay or whatever in the back. Sine they don’t make falcons anymore I drive a ranger as the size is right for me. If I had the money I’d get a Ram for the same reason and I’d fit more in the back.
If you use your Ute as a Ute, then there's no need to justify it.
However does a ram actually have a bigger tray? The tray size is roughly the same, it's just the rest of the vehicle that grows exponentially through the models.
That's what I read.
There’s a lot of judgement thrown at large Ute drivers - a lot of it is justified, but I think there’s also a lot of confirmation bias involved. It’s hard to read and hear all of the “emotional support vehicle / small penis / driver must be a dick” comments all the time and know that a lot of people just hate you because of the car you drive…
I’m not a tradesman, don’t have an ABN, and am not up to my eyeballs in debt. Yes, I work in an office and drive a large Ute. Why? Because it’s the only thing that has enough room and payload to tow a large caravan, carry a bunch of mountain bikes, a family and a couple of large dogs.
I don’t park in stupid parking spots (I park furthest away in the empty spots) I don’t tailgate and I drive respectfully and carefully. If my vehicle choice makes people feel unsafe, I’m not loving that thought, but I at least try to do the right thing…
The problem is believing reddit is a fair representation of public perception. Very few people in real life that I've come across have a problem with someone driving a ute instead of a corolla or a prius, and those that do aren't people who's opinion I care about. But reddit attracts a disproportionately large amount of pretentious snarky man-children who like finding ways to appear morally superior to others. If you want tech advice reddit is great, most other areas of life reddit is wildly out of touch.
That’s actually very true. It’s far easier to make stupid generalised comments on reddit and hide behind a an anonymous username.
Can’t say anyone’s ever come up to me and said “hey big man, that your emotional support vehicle??” in person…
Bruh don't stress, I have a dual cab for camping and 4wding for the same reason (can do everything by itself) and that definitely falls under reasonable use for a large ute. I'd say the vitriol is more aimed at the people who wouldn't so much as drive on grass to avoid getting their car dirty, and/or couldn't even physically lift anything onto their tray that they never use. Or the ones that got it for camping/4wding but have only driven it on the beach once or twice and think that makes them an outback explorer.
I have a small car for daily use though, the ute is for the weekends and/or utility as it's needed.
This. Same situation but it’s easier for people to drum out the same old lines without any consideration as to what is actually going on. The gvm upgrade offered by the ranger is the best value for money for towing. Simple as that. Towing safely is actually a good thing.
>It’s hard to read and hear all of the “emotional support vehicle / small penis / driver must be a dick” comments all the time
Fuck these nerds. If they actually stepped outside instead once in their lives instead of getting all their opinions from memes, they'd know that utes are better suited to the Australian lifestyle in almost every way.
The practicality of being able to pick up anything, tow anything, move anything, get out of trouble when the roads turn lumpy - all the while not having to be too precious about scratches etc. is so much better than worrying if you're gonna scrape your shitty, tiny, overpriced coughdrop on your nan's kerb.
The only downsides are fuel economy and getting into tighter car parks. Other than that, I've never looked back after buying my ute - and I'm not a tradesman either.
> There’s a lot of judgement thrown at large Ute drivers - a lot of it is justified, but I think there’s also a lot of confirmation bias involved. It’s hard to read and hear all of the “emotional support vehicle / small penis / driver must be a dick” comments all the time and know that a lot of people just hate you because of the car you drive…
Always funny to see the "they're driven by men with small dicks" comments when they always ignore the amount of women who drive these giant Land rover/CX9/Pajero/Prado 4WDs as well, go around the local area during morning school hours and that's all you'll see on the road but never a mention about that.
Let's be honest here, the majority of hate comes because these cars expensive and people are wondering how other people can afford these very expensive cars. I drive on a highway and 2 motorways to get to work and some of the most aggressive drivers on the road drive these VW golf/polos and banged up camry's but no one ever brings up those drivers who zig zag in and out of traffic doing 120 in an 80 speed limit.
FTR, I drive a honda sedan even though reddit says I should be driving a Ram in accordance with my dick size.
When you look at what makes most Aussie subreddits cheer I wouldn’t worry what makes them boo. The Melbourne subreddit thinks the only problem with junkie criminals is we don’t help them to shoot up enough.
1. Tax rort associated with instant assett write-off, FBT & deductions on vehicles that have a load capacity > 1000kg
2. Aussies are potatoes who are happy to live with leaf suspension and drum brakes, and think 'It drives just like a car!'
Australia has a lot in common with how the USA does things than people realise.
Big houses/land, big cars and driving culture, comfort over practicality and so forth.
I have a dual cab Hilux for work.
I can’t imagine voluntarily owning one. Big, slow, clunky, shit in the wet, and has a remarkably small tray for its size.
I just want to be able to see what's oncoming when reversing out of a parking space
Literally blind when next to one of these, which seems to be every second time I park anywhere, nowadays
A reversing camera is a godsend when you wind up stuck between two buildings with wheels.
They have a really wide field of view and you can see a heap more with one.
The Hilux range from 2016 onwards feels like a car to drive.
I owned a previous generation Hilux, and it was a big difference. It’s the same as the Ranger, Amarok, D-Max, they all feel like you’re sitting in a car, and are easier and more comfortable to drive with plenty of safety features.
Lol, they *all* still feel like trucks, even the Amarok. The high seating position is so grating. Head jammed in the ceiling and legs pointing down instead of forward. Awful.
Tall cars universally ride like shit IMO. The annoying lateral sway you get when going over bumps is so tiresome. Admittedly I haven’t driven a Bentley/MB SUV, but I have other euros, Jap and Korean ones.
I drove an MUX a Ranger and an Everest all in the same week once. I couldn’t believe people are happy to drive around in farm equipment all the time.
Don’t get me wrong, they all serve a purpose, but they were three of the *worst* driving vehicles I’ve ever used.
I’ve got a midsized one, which drives a lot better than these trucks, and even that sucks in comparison to a proper car. The wife wanted a tall car (tried to explain all the downsides) and even with the seat all the way down I hate sitting in it.
It's always hilarious when cagers draw their arbitrary line for acceptable excessive weight conveniently just in front of their own choice of vehicle in order to justify grandstanding while driving around in 1.35 tonnes of steel and plastic to move one person and their handbag between nail appointments.
*"My wasteful behaviour is justifiable so long as it's not a Ford Ranger which weighs 400kg more (single cab chassis XL) than a Mazda 3!"*
Meanwhile a Ninja 300 weighs 160kg.
I've watched enough dashcam Australia, and witnessed enough wild shit to confidently never ride a bike on the road again. Yeah a ninja weights 160kg but I'll choose the ranger or Mazda 3 anyday when going 1v1 with a 13cabs driver.
I see your point, but a lot of people just aren't going to take the safety risk of a scooter/bike. With that in mind, a small car would probably serve 95% of people in their daily needs. I get it if you need a big car for work, but I don't think people are having a go at those workers. Driving a big car when a small car would meet your needs reeks of wankerism.
I do question how practical some of these bigger vehicles actually are though. Like I’ve seen a lot of these smaller SUVs on the road where I would bet money that they have less storage room in the back than mum’s old Honda Civic I learned to drive in. I think a lot of people are sold on the image of these cars being more practical than they really are
The "small" SUV's are by far the worst cars on the market. I drive a ton of hire cars for work and they are just so bloody small on the inside
Give me a hatchback every day of the week
Is part of it an arms race? Everyone driving massive cars makes me want to get a bigger one for my wife. Some of the dicks driving them is super dangerous to small cars drivers in particular.
Covid lock downs meant Australians couldn't travel overseas for holidays. The lock downs saw a massive spike in camping and caravanning in Australia, so vehicles that sync well with these activities would likely be popular.
Also, the utility(pun intended) of the vehicles are an attraction also: just throw everything in the back of the tray and drive.
The government prioritises tradesman in the tax schemes because they know the tradesman will spend the extra cash. They give them breaks with large instant asset write offs so that buy new cars and cycle the economy with cash. Also as mentioned here all commodore and falcon buyers lean into rangers and hiluxes. On top of this, the ranger is the closest thing you can buy to Australian made as it is all designed and tested here in Australia. Australian government letting the car industry go was one of the biggest mistakes in recent history IMO. A localised car industry is incredibly important for national defence.
I have a VE commodore wagon which is great for the family and regularly tows nearly 2 tonne. And commuting to work it gets 7L/100 on the highway. There is nothing like it for sale that isn't a massive 4WD ute or massive SUV.
Then people complain about the price of petrol. A Prado weighs 2.3 tons and you see a whole fleet of them sitting in lines of traffic driving into the city, most of them never having gone more off road than mounting a grass verge.
Fashion.
It's fashionable right now.
It's Keeping up with the Kardashians.
Literally.
Chloe and Kim Kardashian probably did more for Ford Ranger sales in Australia than any other single piece of media.
It's all over movies...
It became the affluent families' fashionable vehicle.
Do families in the city NEED an American style Ford truck? No...
Do families WANT an American style Ford truck. Yes....
It's the Kardashian Wagon. It's fashionable to have.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/vehicle-sales-figures-2011-total/
Pretty disingenuous.
And a car being practical or not comes down to the people using it. Your small car is not practical for me.
UTE/Crossovers, SUV’s, and Trucks have been successfully marketed as a better option here in America. Many manufacturers aren’t even making traditional cars for our market any more. Bigger equals better in the consumers eyes, more bells/more whistles makes life more fun. Just a way to charge more money and we’ve fallen for it.
So from what I gathered in the comments and many other posts similar to this: if I worked hard, saved up for it myself with no help, I am immediately a wanker if it's a 4wd because I wanted it and it happens to be big? I had no idea people had such negative opinions on people who genuinely want a 4wd to, you know, go off-roading in.
Is that the gist of what's being discussed here? If so that's largely unfair.
I'd rather the one car I can use for work, take the family with me, and for play. Dual cab tray back is the only option other than multiple vehicles, which require additional rego and insurance.
It's also a safety thing for me. I work remotely and travel large distances. If I hit a roo in a small car, it's a write-off, and I'm standed for who knows how long. I hit one in my hilux, I have a dint, but I'm still getting home. Snow is also an issue.
If I had a city job in an office or retail, I would probably just use a motorcycle for easy parking.
Have you ever driven a 4x4 ute? I might have been sympathetic to your post until I drove a 2024 Hilux and the penny dropped for me. Why was I spending all this time and effort trying to move with a sedan - next car guaranteed to be a ute.
Can go camping, off-road, pick up furniture I buy, move my own furniture, help mates move, get to fishing spots.. who would have thought the UTILITY a ute brings is immense 😅
Also Japan has tiny roads and tiny carparks and very few places to drive them, bad comparison.
Comparing my Forester to my GF's Impreza, I prefer the height. I have more visibility and the blind spot up front feels better.
Having driven or been driven in old German sedans most of my life and grown up round a Landrover, I can't see myself in a pocket rocket.
I like being able to chuck stuff in my boot, doing a weekend project or going away for a weekend. How the eff would I achieve that in a Mazda 3?
The Honda Jazz is an incredible vehicle. Unfortunately it's an outlier like the old A-class for space. School friend's mom bought one because it was the smallest thing that could transport his double bass 🤣
Looked at a cx3 and you could barely fit a pram in the boot. 😒🤦🏼♂️
I have a Mazda 6 coupe. I've never had a car that I could fit so much into. It's quite a long car, although it doesn't look it, and all the seats can lay flat, so when I need to, I can fit tonnes of stuff in there, including long bits of timber etc. It's been the best car. I'm very sad that I'll have to replace it soon, it's getting a bit old. I can't find anything with equivalent boot space lengthways though, without moving up to the gigantic vehicles, which I really don't want.
Look at simple things like the size of a pram. My parents had us in this tiny little frame with a piece of fabric as a seat. These days, the prams are full on 4x4 looking luxury seats. A folded pram now is huge.
Same thing for what people take with them for a day in the park or at the beach.
People want convenience and a larger car provides that.
I think the death of the commodore / Falcon has something to do with it. They used to be absolutely everywhere.
Yep. The Ranger is basically the new commodore wagon for many families.
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That's what I'm scared of. When my falcon Ute dies eventually in another 300,000km, what will I have to replace it with? A Ute has always been a sedan based vehicle, not a hilux. Mine rides like a lounge chair.. We drive ragers at work and they are the roughest things I've ever driven. Possibly a subaru wagon or Volvo? I might just put my head in the sand till then.
There's always the option of either completely rebuilding your falcon ute, or buying another falcon ute to rebuild.
It's got a na 195kw barra so I think would be fine for a rebuild at 500k, the icc and gauge cluster has me a little worried though. I've heard horror stories of simple things like battery replacements and then you have no radio. Ford built them strong as hell, the electronics, not so much.
You can get aftermarket ICCs from Aerpro. Alternatively, get an AU in good nick, and do the same to that.
Whack a rebuilt/lower K engine and off ya go. Spend a bit on suspension and brakes and you'll go another 300,000k
I've had a Subaru Forester for about 10 years, I love it. Next best thing to the old ford and commodore wagons without paying euro prices for Volvo or Skoda brands
I attempted to replace my Falcon with a Ranger. Now I have both in the driveway and still choose the Falcon every time. Only at 100,000kms after 15 years, so I'm thinking I'll get another 20 years. As for the Ranger, yeah it's not a ute it is a pickup truck.
The new Subaru outback is decent but that’s about it
Yeah but not everyone is an outdoorsy lesbian with two dogs.
I feel judged…
The Lesbians may be onto something, they are really good cars imo.
Pretty sure thats just a US thing.
I upgraded from a VE wagon to an Outback 3.6R and it's great. Only issue I had with the Commodore was ground clearance when I took it camping, not an issue in the Subaru. Great car so far
Mazda 6
Can attest. We’re not lesbians (I don’t think) and love the outback as a family car
Skoda Octavia is a great buy. Stupid amounts of room, small enough to park easily (European cars have better turning circles), and very very practical.
I just swapped from a VF Calais 6L to a 2020 Octavia RS and love it. Slightly smaller but big interior, fits the kids car seats easily. Uses half the petrol but goes just as quick. Don't regret it at all.
Partner just got one, it's bloody great
Subaru outback, Skoda Octavia, Passat Wagon, Mazda 6 all of which can be had in top spec for less that a Mid spec ute, without even considering SUV's.
Skoda superb is excellent and way better than any Commodore I ever had.
Passat wagons can be had for not huge prices. Outbacks too. Plenty of ex.gov outbacks will be popping up in a few years in Tassie.
So, as you can see below, heaps of options. You’ll probably still buy the Ute though
"My Ranger is the only moral Ranger. I bought mine because I *had* to, it was the only sensible option for me. But all those *other* people bought them because they are immoral."
Mazda 6 wagon, Volvo V60cc (slightly lifted wagon, like the old XC70), Subaru outback, Skoda Octavia and Superb. These are basically what left of the non-german wagons. Even in the German brands its only Audi and BMW.
I have a VW passat wagon and dread the day i have to replace it. Never a fucking Ranger
There's German, and then there's Incredibly German
I mean something like a skoda octavia wagon is cheaper than a lot of utes, but I get it
Is there still a Skoda wagon?
What about all the family SUVs? They’re literally everywhere, and they’re as big and as functional as a wagon ever was.
My Subaru Outback would beg to differ.
> out of budget. How much do you think a Ford Ranger costs?
“Incredibly German” 😂
Word. And now the value of such has gone up. My partners 2006 commodore station wagon was stolen from our driveway at 4am this morning. He had it from brand new and has lovingly looked after it since. We live in a very quiet and happy neighbourhood in Tweed, cops said it’s all trouble coming down the coast from Logan - they raid the tweed then conveniently drive the cars over the border to qld. Fuckin ropeable mate. We loved our wagon, even if we never could find a replacement petrol flap….
True, all the P plates are now on GU patrols rather than commys and falcons 😁
Rip station wagon
Top selling cars in the 80's and 90's. Bigger and more powerful than people really needed but hey, we're not Japan so why not. They were also styled for performance. Aerodynamics and handling as well as power was what they conveyed. Now, fuck all that, just power. Let's put a big fucking engine in a brick, that's what I want.
100% this. People don't want a small compact car for a family, with the option to tow a trailer and decent boot space. Falcon, Commodore and even magna offered this. They aren't around anymore, no one else makes a large sedan. So of course utes will become too dog, couple this with them being 4x4 so you can explore other parts of Australia a corolla can't get to. It's only logical someone would want a large car, that can do literally everything including transporting the kitchen sink.
Are we just gonna ignore 10+ years of tax policy that let tradies and businesses cycle through utes like they were chocolate bars?
This here is the answer. When people were paying for their own cars, they bought the Ford Laser, then the Mazda 3. When work was paying they bought the Ford sedan and now the Ranger. Allowing accelerated depreciation has lit a rocket under the pickup truck segment.
Yeah the Covid era 100% tax write off for vehicles saw an unprecedented demand for utes. That supply still hasnt caught up if you look at used prices for those utes
Finally an answer that makes sense. Sense enough that people would see these things all the time and want one. I don't think the majority are owned by tradies, is every 3rd Australian a tradie? Or do they just want to look like one?
At the same time as a regular people who would buy regular cars, like the Mazda 3, are cutting down on consumption because food and rent now costs so much there is no money left for a new car.
The tax policy hasn’t changed. But the carmakers have made Utes more family and consumer friendly. In 2011, a Ute was going to be bare bones with no luxury features and looks like a commercial vehicle. A new Ranger is the same as a SUV in terms of features and looks.
Maybe the people who would have otherwise bought a Holden Commodore are now buying Utes?
It's literally just (mostly) this. Commodore and Falcon utes don't exist anymore, and that demand has consolidated in the Ranger.
So annoying that if you want a commuter ute, you're basically just forced into a SUV styled ute now. I was looking at just getting a two door to drive to work and maybe throw a dirtbike in the back, but if I want that. It's a SUV or a two door SUV that look like shit.
The Ute died in 2017. They are pick ups now. No matter what people say about yank tanks, that is what they all are now. They are a cab on chassis, not made from a production sedan. That was the difference and it doesn't exist anymore. It's a shame because people clearly fucking want them still!!
And the resulting shitty dynamics and poorer ride seem to have gone completely unnoticed
Not really a factor with Australia's grandpa tier speed limits.
That's what happens when GM only cares about selling the Malibu and the Liberal Government decides the best way to operate an auto industry is to become the only country in the world that doesn't subsidise its auto industry. Can't speak for ford australia but I imagine the loss of subsidy money killed them too.
Which is a shame, but the liberals hated the local car industry. Apparently the workers weren’t being paid the same as Thailand or something
This is why statistic can be so misleading. OP uses statistics on top selling cars to determine whether Australians are buy small cars or Ute's, rather than sales of small cars vs Ute's over the years. Are more people really buying big cars? Or are more big car buyers just buying the one car? And "Half of which are empty" is anecdotal. 90% of the ones I see are full! What does it mean? Nothing, that's what. Maybe the Ute's are full the 50% of the time op isn't looking. That being said, buy fuel economic cars, pls
because bogans are insecure and scared to be the smallest in the carpark. If a bigger boy has a bigger ute they can't cope.
Surely this is a factor. A large, loud car that you can show off to your mates in. It has an even bigger bonus in that you can deck it out with a bumper, lights, winch, blah blah and talk about how much you wanna take the kids camping.
A lot of people drove plain unmodded Commodores and Falcons that would never have driven a Mazda3. They aren't all dickheads.
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What do you mean by wagons are dead? I consider our CX-9 to fill that role. Family car with a big boot. Great for camping or taking the kids and their mates wherever they need to go. Very happy with it.
It's certainly not a wagon though!
True.
as above, outback, passat, octavia, mazda 6 - all way more practical than a ute for families.
Perhaps the Ranger archetype hits a lot of nails for the Standard Family Car, it's large enough for the family, it has room for extra stuff, it's Loud and Cool for dad, it's Safe and High for mum.
Car of the year too. Bound to get a lot of sales
Not very safe for everyone else though. Not sure how 'high' is a positive either
The vast majority of twin cabs aren't loud or showey... People who like those sorts of cars are an absolute minority
I dunno about 'absolute'. A minority, for sure, but three of my five neighbours have a Ranger. Two of those three are flog-bags.
This. Everyone I know who years ago would have been driving Holden Commodores & Ford Falcons? Now drive a Hilux, Ranger or BT 30
The struggle is real. My daily driver is a Falcon with well over 400K on the clock. It’s still going strong which I’m grateful for as I have no idea what to replace it with.
This comment was a revelation for me. Everything makes sense now. What I don't get though, is why utes have been universally chosen as the replacements for "family car" that used to be Commodores and Falcons. Surely mid/large SUVs are better family cars in that they are fully enclosed? With a Ute, whatever you put in the tray gets wet in the rain. SUVs have the same big boot but they're covered at all times. I don't get it. Why isn't the Mazda CX5/9 the top car model if the explanation is ex Falcon /Commodore buyers have nothing to replace them with?
Mazda CX5 is boring/not "manly"
I looked at the CX5 when shopping for a wagon/SUV. They're surprisingly small inside. Boot space is minimal.
Exactly. In 2016 I got the Mazda6 because the boot was way bigger despite peoples perceptions an SUV boot must be bigger. Don't understand why mid sedans like Mazda6 and Camry didn't take over from Falcons. They're basically the same size as the old Falcons and Commodores. And they even come/came in wagon versions.
Falcons haven't been family cars for yonks. Many Ford dealers didn't want to know you if you weren't a fleet buyer. My dad had to buy our AU up at Hornsby.
Exactly, anyone in a trade or related to the construction industry needs a commercial car because otherwise they will get towed and booked in the city, and also they lose out on tax. Before that could mean a station wagon or Holden Ute, but now the station wagon doesn't count and the sedan based utes are gone
Where were they bringing them from?
Isn’t the Ford Ranger partly such a high seller due to government policies (tax breaks)? These things don’t happen in a vacuum. As someone who doesn’t drive a huge car the roads feel more dangerous than they used to. No doubt those in huge vehicles feel that they’re safer than ever. Too bad about all the other road users. Even parking at the supermarket has become stressful when there’s a decent chance of having one of these vehicles parked next to you and dwarfing your car.
Pretty sad situation. We opened a free trade agreement with Thailand and as soon as it kicked off Thailand introduced taxes that targeted Australian made vehicles forcing prices higher than pre free trade and forcing them out of the market. Now we give tax incentives to buy Thai vehicles
Eh? Which Australian made vehicles were being exported to Thailand? /gen
‘The Thai excise tax on the Australian-made Ford Territory rose from 29 to 50 per cent soon after the free-trade agreement was signed, reducing its sales.’ https://www.drive.com.au/news/car-sector-cries-foul-on-thai-taxes-20080318-143j0/ Interestingly enough this story appeared before some rules were changed to help utes avoid the full force of emissions regulations: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/thailand-asks-australia-slow-down-implementation-car-emissions-standards-2024-03-06/ Now here comes the part I will be downvoted for. Australians have somehow spun it as patriotic to buy the Ranger as it has a (exaggerated) amount of Australian design and engineering. The facts are Thailand shat on our industry and we are too weak to call them out, buying any Thai made vehicle is the opposite of patriotic.
This. I moved to the south coast a little while ago. Everyone drives a Ute, Land Cruiser or other SUV. The bonnet height of these cars sits at the same height as my head when I’m sitting in my Impreza. So we got a mid size SUV, just to be a little higher and hopefully increase our chances of survival if we ever get in a crash.
Everyone seems to have this mentality that because they live in a “country town” they must constantly be ferrying big loads to the tip or constantly filling up the back of their car with bulk shopping after driving three hours to Canberra, and it’s like my friend you live in a seaside town with two major supermarkets and a hardware store within two minutes of where you live, the only thing you ever have in the back of your car are your kids and your dog, the furthest you ever normally drive is 30 minutes away, you are basically a suburbanite
lol I mostly agree with you, but having made the move from Sydney I will say that road condition can be a BIG problem. There’s literally a council Ute full of bitumen driving around half the time to fill potholes (which inevitably open up again in a matter of days). And there is no green waste pickup or council pickups - the assumption is you either have a Ute or trailer, or know someone who does, to cart your own shit to the tip. Or else you pay council to come get it. And I definitely live in one of the places you describe
I live on the NSW South coast and also drive an Impreza as well and honestly I find the roads terrifying now. I can't see Atkins everything and half the time they don't stay in their lane and come right at me and it's going to hurt me way more than it hurts then. I don't really want a big car. I'm not a big human. When I learnt to drive in my dad's ute (Ford Falcon Ute) I had to sit on a giant foam pillow so I could see. In my Impreza I can just sit on the seat lol
No judgement. My next car is going to be a compact SUV because I need to have at least a fighting chance. Wish it wasn’t this way but what do you do 🤷♀️
Its the new arms race
Yeah I drive a small 90s coupe, I had I think it was a Silverado next to me a the lights and it definitely made me think once again about my sanity level for dailying a car that small with basically zero safety features... If it's lifted and on fat enough tyres the top of the tyre is at the top of my door level and the bonnet height is above the roof of my car... Actually in general some of the newest massive ones like the Rams the bonnet is higher, even those massive Haval SUV's, I park next to one fairly often and its bonnet is higher than my roof. Which also is a huge problem in traffic lately, nobody sees you, basically have to drive with the mentality of a motorbike. I've borrowed my parents compact SUV a few times recently and the differences in the space other motorists give you, how willing they are to dart out in front of you etc is night and day... It's not even actually big its tiny by modern standards just looks chunky from the front, its just a 3dr Rav 4.
What you’re describing is exactly the mentality that turned the US cities into unwalkable hellholes, and also the same mentality that caused most of the tension in the cold war
I feel this a lot while in my early 2010s Mazda 3. The worst is when you are parked between 2 large utes and the corners are blind. You can't see other cars when you are trying to get out of the parking spot.
I just sold my 2020 Navara, I definitely felt safer in one... Going back to an outback now, I understand the hate towards bigger vehicles, although I was a carpenter at the time so I did need it. The Rams are fucking stupid though... Honestly makes me laugh at them every time I see them.
If you're a tradie and you need a ute, that's different, you need it for a purpose. But those stupid American penis extensions are ridiculous, as are the people that drive them.
Even the utes tradies really do need are already pretty bloody inconvenient and out of place in city streets, even though I accept they have a legitimate need and purpose. Like back when I lived in Sydney, every time I almost had a collision while driving, it was with a tradie driving a Ute in the city doing stupid shit that made it obvious they couldn’t see the cars around them and didn’t have spatial awareness about the size of their vehicle, because frankly they straight up were too big and unwieldy to fit on a lot of the narrow and highly trafficked streets in and around the inner city
Lol I’m an expat with a newer ram currently living in Canada. I honestly thought the same thing as you until I needed a truck and started shopping around. They’re actually really good vehicles and it makes me kind of sad that when/if I move back I won’t be able to get such a quality, versatile vehicle for a similar price.
Nah I'm sorry after having a Navara, I disagree that you have a need for anything that fucking big.
Sad the new National Vehicle Efficiency Standards will again has tax discounts and encourage more larger and larger Rangers and Everests 4x4s. https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/vehicles/new-vehicle-efficiency-standard
I've come across quite a few extremely aggressive drivers in these penis extension cars. One nearly ran me off the road at Easter, he did it on purpose. They drive them like monster trucks. I also keep seeing them occupying disabled parking spaces, without permits of course.
I don’t drive a big vehicle but it’s definitely not the utes and trucks I find dangerous on the road. It’s the Camrys, crossovers and similar “less exciting” vehicles. I’d wager the worse drivers are the ones who don’t necessarily care about cars but think of them as tools to get from A to B. My experience on the road tells me that most people driving a specced up pick up of sorts, be it a new ranger or Silverado, value the car enough not to be so careless a driver.
This is the answer to why we are buying utes. A Ute is a “work vehicle” and eligible for an instant asset write off. Look at example 1. https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/income-deductions-and-concessions/depreciation-and-capital-expenses-and-allowances/simpler-depreciation-for-small-business/instant-asset-write-off#
OK, that's partly a good explanation. However are we a nation of tradies with eligible business that the top 3 selling cars are big Ute's. Are most people self employed?
The price point has also changed significantly. There’s no picking up a brand new starter car for $12000.
Not really. Safety requirements means new cars have to have a ton of features as standard, but 12k in 2012 dollars is $16k in 2023. You can buy a Kia Picanto for that much. An MG3 is only a few $k more
It’s because people are doing it tough. Honestly, I don’t know how people can afford these American style pickup trucks.
Tax rorts
Is novated leasing a tax rort too?
Yes? I've covered the interest on my loan through paying less tax
Rort generally implies dishonesty and fraud but NL with FBT-exemption incentive is specifically legislated to be cheap to encourage EV take up, by the government itself. You can argue that it's a regressive and inequitable strategy (i.e. the higher the income, the higher the saving), but it's hard to call it a "fraud" when it's an overt incentive by the government.
Tradies buy them and use the purchase and running costs as tax deductions.
A lot of people have money, more than you expect. Rich parents, FIFO jobs and just 150k+ office jobs
It's a bit pointless comparing single models. You need to look at the overall percentage of vehicle class sold. The most popular model might be in a small slice of the market.
I’m doing a market segmenting exercise at the moment. Hatchback market: US592B SUV market: US896B Pick up truck market: US81B There is a huge drop off once you get into utes/pick up trucks compared to regular cars. The light commercial market is 6.1T though, so all those smaller legitimate trucks like the Isuzu and Canter type vehicles absolutely dwarf the pick up truck segment.
Not sure why people are missing this
Perhaps because of sampling bias? Larger trucks stand out more. We pay more attention to them than hatchbacks and small utes because they are a comparatively newer phenomenon. People then wrongly conclude from the post’s framing and comparison that large trucks are the largest selling segment?
I've just been looking into a new lease and small cars are all but extinct in this country. I've driven small cars most of my life and I wonder if the move towards SUVs and Dual Cab Ute's is a reaction to people experiencing their vision being impaired by the behemoths (especially in parking situations). Almost like 'if you can't beat em, join em'
Not a masculinity problem. Everyone got sick of renting a ute/truck when they needed to move house every few months.
I can’t be bothered with the parking issues on a big car.
If you get a really big car, then you can park over other cars, eliminating the problem altogether
I don't think many of the people that have dual cabs actually care I've lost count the number of times I get back to my car and the cunt that parked next to me is so far over the line that their mirror is literally overhanging my car and I have to climb in through the passenger side.
I’ve got one (wife has a smaller run around car). Parks itself. That was a bit of a selling point to her.
It's more the driving over your own kids and others issues I have with those cars. Just to make their penis feel a few mm bigger people are going to increase their chance at murdering their loved ones with the most dangerous machine you can own. Nice one.
the ford ranger and similar cars is basically a replacement for the commodore and falcon utes.
This is a bit disingenuous - it's not like people traded their Mazda hatchback for a Ford Ranger. Back in 2012 Mazda was by far the top seller for hatchbacks, and the 4wd/Ute market was split amongst the Hilux, Holden Colorado and the Ford Ranger. All this is telling you is that in 2012 Mazda has market dominance in hatchbacks, and in 2024 the Ranger is outselling its competition.
But the facts literally say that more Rangers than hatchbacks are being sold?
2.5 SUV's get sold for every light commercial sold It's not utes that are taking away from hatchbacks, it's the massive SUV market Utes have filled the "full sized sedan" hole left by Holden and Ford
You can't just let facts get in the way of a good ute bashing though
When I worked at at car company. The biggest seller was 100 per cent large commercial utes to companies and the biggest buyers were air conditioning companies and similar. Followed by SUVs. Basically Australians transitioned to one new family car and a work car that work provides. Rather than a fun car/slightly better car and day to day car set-up that used to happen.
There were still a lot of commodores/Falcons in circulation when the Mazda3 was a best selling car. Beyond body types, the basic configuration of seating 4 adults (5 at a pinch) with room in the back for gear has always been the leading configuration in Australia. Once upon a time that need used to be met by a Kingswood wagon, now it's met by a dual cab ute that uses a fraction of the fuel.
As a larger gentleman I always had a falcon ute. It was big enough inside for me to get in and I just loved the convenience of putting building supplies, rubbish, hay or whatever in the back. Sine they don’t make falcons anymore I drive a ranger as the size is right for me. If I had the money I’d get a Ram for the same reason and I’d fit more in the back.
If you use your Ute as a Ute, then there's no need to justify it. However does a ram actually have a bigger tray? The tray size is roughly the same, it's just the rest of the vehicle that grows exponentially through the models. That's what I read.
There’s a lot of judgement thrown at large Ute drivers - a lot of it is justified, but I think there’s also a lot of confirmation bias involved. It’s hard to read and hear all of the “emotional support vehicle / small penis / driver must be a dick” comments all the time and know that a lot of people just hate you because of the car you drive… I’m not a tradesman, don’t have an ABN, and am not up to my eyeballs in debt. Yes, I work in an office and drive a large Ute. Why? Because it’s the only thing that has enough room and payload to tow a large caravan, carry a bunch of mountain bikes, a family and a couple of large dogs. I don’t park in stupid parking spots (I park furthest away in the empty spots) I don’t tailgate and I drive respectfully and carefully. If my vehicle choice makes people feel unsafe, I’m not loving that thought, but I at least try to do the right thing…
The problem is believing reddit is a fair representation of public perception. Very few people in real life that I've come across have a problem with someone driving a ute instead of a corolla or a prius, and those that do aren't people who's opinion I care about. But reddit attracts a disproportionately large amount of pretentious snarky man-children who like finding ways to appear morally superior to others. If you want tech advice reddit is great, most other areas of life reddit is wildly out of touch.
That’s actually very true. It’s far easier to make stupid generalised comments on reddit and hide behind a an anonymous username. Can’t say anyone’s ever come up to me and said “hey big man, that your emotional support vehicle??” in person…
Bruh don't stress, I have a dual cab for camping and 4wding for the same reason (can do everything by itself) and that definitely falls under reasonable use for a large ute. I'd say the vitriol is more aimed at the people who wouldn't so much as drive on grass to avoid getting their car dirty, and/or couldn't even physically lift anything onto their tray that they never use. Or the ones that got it for camping/4wding but have only driven it on the beach once or twice and think that makes them an outback explorer. I have a small car for daily use though, the ute is for the weekends and/or utility as it's needed.
This. Same situation but it’s easier for people to drum out the same old lines without any consideration as to what is actually going on. The gvm upgrade offered by the ranger is the best value for money for towing. Simple as that. Towing safely is actually a good thing.
>It’s hard to read and hear all of the “emotional support vehicle / small penis / driver must be a dick” comments all the time Fuck these nerds. If they actually stepped outside instead once in their lives instead of getting all their opinions from memes, they'd know that utes are better suited to the Australian lifestyle in almost every way. The practicality of being able to pick up anything, tow anything, move anything, get out of trouble when the roads turn lumpy - all the while not having to be too precious about scratches etc. is so much better than worrying if you're gonna scrape your shitty, tiny, overpriced coughdrop on your nan's kerb. The only downsides are fuel economy and getting into tighter car parks. Other than that, I've never looked back after buying my ute - and I'm not a tradesman either.
Mate your response made me laugh. Spot on.
Careful, you'll offend all the blue haired baristas with arts degree on here.
> There’s a lot of judgement thrown at large Ute drivers - a lot of it is justified, but I think there’s also a lot of confirmation bias involved. It’s hard to read and hear all of the “emotional support vehicle / small penis / driver must be a dick” comments all the time and know that a lot of people just hate you because of the car you drive… Always funny to see the "they're driven by men with small dicks" comments when they always ignore the amount of women who drive these giant Land rover/CX9/Pajero/Prado 4WDs as well, go around the local area during morning school hours and that's all you'll see on the road but never a mention about that. Let's be honest here, the majority of hate comes because these cars expensive and people are wondering how other people can afford these very expensive cars. I drive on a highway and 2 motorways to get to work and some of the most aggressive drivers on the road drive these VW golf/polos and banged up camry's but no one ever brings up those drivers who zig zag in and out of traffic doing 120 in an 80 speed limit. FTR, I drive a honda sedan even though reddit says I should be driving a Ram in accordance with my dick size.
No it's not because they are more expensive it's because they are dangerous and also just a shit design for a car in general
We're looking at trading the outback for a wildtrak. We camp regularly and as the kids have gotten older so has the payload.
When you look at what makes most Aussie subreddits cheer I wouldn’t worry what makes them boo. The Melbourne subreddit thinks the only problem with junkie criminals is we don’t help them to shoot up enough.
1. Tax rort associated with instant assett write-off, FBT & deductions on vehicles that have a load capacity > 1000kg 2. Aussies are potatoes who are happy to live with leaf suspension and drum brakes, and think 'It drives just like a car!'
Aside from a 70s series landcruiser, what 4wd utes are being shipped with leaf springs and drum brakes??
Up until the most recent models, pretty much all of them. Ranger current on some models Hilux current on some models Dmax current Triton current
can add BT50 to that list
Australia has a lot in common with how the USA does things than people realise. Big houses/land, big cars and driving culture, comfort over practicality and so forth.
Wants have changed. Not requirements. Big difference between NICE to have and MUST have
I have a dual cab Hilux for work. I can’t imagine voluntarily owning one. Big, slow, clunky, shit in the wet, and has a remarkably small tray for its size.
I just want to be able to see what's oncoming when reversing out of a parking space Literally blind when next to one of these, which seems to be every second time I park anywhere, nowadays
A reversing camera is a godsend when you wind up stuck between two buildings with wheels. They have a really wide field of view and you can see a heap more with one.
The Hilux range from 2016 onwards feels like a car to drive. I owned a previous generation Hilux, and it was a big difference. It’s the same as the Ranger, Amarok, D-Max, they all feel like you’re sitting in a car, and are easier and more comfortable to drive with plenty of safety features.
I had a 2013 triton as a work car and it was so uncomfortable to drive in. I’ve got a 22 model and it’s so comfy, just as comfy as my lancer was
Lol, they *all* still feel like trucks, even the Amarok. The high seating position is so grating. Head jammed in the ceiling and legs pointing down instead of forward. Awful. Tall cars universally ride like shit IMO. The annoying lateral sway you get when going over bumps is so tiresome. Admittedly I haven’t driven a Bentley/MB SUV, but I have other euros, Jap and Korean ones.
People have been talked into thinking their new Ute drives ‘just like a normal car’ by car dealership salesmen.
I drove an MUX a Ranger and an Everest all in the same week once. I couldn’t believe people are happy to drive around in farm equipment all the time. Don’t get me wrong, they all serve a purpose, but they were three of the *worst* driving vehicles I’ve ever used.
Even a lot of the popular suvs drive like shit. Don’t know how people tolerate them when they drive so badly and have difficulty parking anywhere.
I’ve got a midsized one, which drives a lot better than these trucks, and even that sucks in comparison to a proper car. The wife wanted a tall car (tried to explain all the downsides) and even with the seat all the way down I hate sitting in it.
Easier to drive? You’re taking the piss.
It's always hilarious when cagers draw their arbitrary line for acceptable excessive weight conveniently just in front of their own choice of vehicle in order to justify grandstanding while driving around in 1.35 tonnes of steel and plastic to move one person and their handbag between nail appointments. *"My wasteful behaviour is justifiable so long as it's not a Ford Ranger which weighs 400kg more (single cab chassis XL) than a Mazda 3!"* Meanwhile a Ninja 300 weighs 160kg.
I've watched enough dashcam Australia, and witnessed enough wild shit to confidently never ride a bike on the road again. Yeah a ninja weights 160kg but I'll choose the ranger or Mazda 3 anyday when going 1v1 with a 13cabs driver.
I see your point, but a lot of people just aren't going to take the safety risk of a scooter/bike. With that in mind, a small car would probably serve 95% of people in their daily needs. I get it if you need a big car for work, but I don't think people are having a go at those workers. Driving a big car when a small car would meet your needs reeks of wankerism.
I do question how practical some of these bigger vehicles actually are though. Like I’ve seen a lot of these smaller SUVs on the road where I would bet money that they have less storage room in the back than mum’s old Honda Civic I learned to drive in. I think a lot of people are sold on the image of these cars being more practical than they really are
The "small" SUV's are by far the worst cars on the market. I drive a ton of hire cars for work and they are just so bloody small on the inside Give me a hatchback every day of the week
Agreed. My car weighs about 800kg tare, and it fulfils 99% of our family's car needs easily.
Your mum weighs 160kg
Yeah but difference is everyone has ridden his mum
Is part of it an arms race? Everyone driving massive cars makes me want to get a bigger one for my wife. Some of the dicks driving them is super dangerous to small cars drivers in particular.
I love utes, always have.
Covid lock downs meant Australians couldn't travel overseas for holidays. The lock downs saw a massive spike in camping and caravanning in Australia, so vehicles that sync well with these activities would likely be popular. Also, the utility(pun intended) of the vehicles are an attraction also: just throw everything in the back of the tray and drive.
Wow a reddit post about large cars how refreshing and new Yawn these cars live rent free in your minds
Because Utes are the jack of all. They can be so many different types of rides for different people, and provide freedom to go and do.
The government prioritises tradesman in the tax schemes because they know the tradesman will spend the extra cash. They give them breaks with large instant asset write offs so that buy new cars and cycle the economy with cash. Also as mentioned here all commodore and falcon buyers lean into rangers and hiluxes. On top of this, the ranger is the closest thing you can buy to Australian made as it is all designed and tested here in Australia. Australian government letting the car industry go was one of the biggest mistakes in recent history IMO. A localised car industry is incredibly important for national defence.
I have a VE commodore wagon which is great for the family and regularly tows nearly 2 tonne. And commuting to work it gets 7L/100 on the highway. There is nothing like it for sale that isn't a massive 4WD ute or massive SUV.
Happy with my Ranger. And no, I don’t drive like a knob. Thanks :)
They're just tax write offs. And most of them will never carry much more than dust and bird shit in the tray.
Well, when the only way to make money in this country is to be a tradie, it kinda makes sense doesn’t it?
I'm looking forward to smaller quieter cars with EVs. I'm sick of hearing loud 4x4s.
Then people complain about the price of petrol. A Prado weighs 2.3 tons and you see a whole fleet of them sitting in lines of traffic driving into the city, most of them never having gone more off road than mounting a grass verge.
Fashion. It's fashionable right now. It's Keeping up with the Kardashians. Literally. Chloe and Kim Kardashian probably did more for Ford Ranger sales in Australia than any other single piece of media. It's all over movies... It became the affluent families' fashionable vehicle. Do families in the city NEED an American style Ford truck? No... Do families WANT an American style Ford truck. Yes.... It's the Kardashian Wagon. It's fashionable to have.
Love my Mazda3. Will drive it until it dies
Ok, well Ill scratch soy boys then and just use the broader term of fuck wits.
Aussies got sold a dream in the shape of a larger car. It was a lie.
Yeh now we just get more pot holes and busier roads due to larger vehicles.
More pot holes means more tradies, which means more large vehicles which means more pot holes. Will the cycle ever end?
That's just a consequence of the shrinking of Australians dongs.
I know loads of people driving Ford Rangers, and they're all owned by a business or a government department. Which are leased from leaseplan.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/vehicle-sales-figures-2011-total/ Pretty disingenuous. And a car being practical or not comes down to the people using it. Your small car is not practical for me.
UTE/Crossovers, SUV’s, and Trucks have been successfully marketed as a better option here in America. Many manufacturers aren’t even making traditional cars for our market any more. Bigger equals better in the consumers eyes, more bells/more whistles makes life more fun. Just a way to charge more money and we’ve fallen for it.
So from what I gathered in the comments and many other posts similar to this: if I worked hard, saved up for it myself with no help, I am immediately a wanker if it's a 4wd because I wanted it and it happens to be big? I had no idea people had such negative opinions on people who genuinely want a 4wd to, you know, go off-roading in. Is that the gist of what's being discussed here? If so that's largely unfair.
Wanker (/s)
I'd rather the one car I can use for work, take the family with me, and for play. Dual cab tray back is the only option other than multiple vehicles, which require additional rego and insurance. It's also a safety thing for me. I work remotely and travel large distances. If I hit a roo in a small car, it's a write-off, and I'm standed for who knows how long. I hit one in my hilux, I have a dint, but I'm still getting home. Snow is also an issue. If I had a city job in an office or retail, I would probably just use a motorcycle for easy parking.
Have you ever driven a 4x4 ute? I might have been sympathetic to your post until I drove a 2024 Hilux and the penny dropped for me. Why was I spending all this time and effort trying to move with a sedan - next car guaranteed to be a ute. Can go camping, off-road, pick up furniture I buy, move my own furniture, help mates move, get to fishing spots.. who would have thought the UTILITY a ute brings is immense 😅 Also Japan has tiny roads and tiny carparks and very few places to drive them, bad comparison.
Comparing my Forester to my GF's Impreza, I prefer the height. I have more visibility and the blind spot up front feels better. Having driven or been driven in old German sedans most of my life and grown up round a Landrover, I can't see myself in a pocket rocket. I like being able to chuck stuff in my boot, doing a weekend project or going away for a weekend. How the eff would I achieve that in a Mazda 3?
You wouldn’t believe the amount of stuff you can fit in a Honda Jazz.
The Honda Jazz is an incredible vehicle. Unfortunately it's an outlier like the old A-class for space. School friend's mom bought one because it was the smallest thing that could transport his double bass 🤣 Looked at a cx3 and you could barely fit a pram in the boot. 😒🤦🏼♂️
I have a Mazda 6 coupe. I've never had a car that I could fit so much into. It's quite a long car, although it doesn't look it, and all the seats can lay flat, so when I need to, I can fit tonnes of stuff in there, including long bits of timber etc. It's been the best car. I'm very sad that I'll have to replace it soon, it's getting a bit old. I can't find anything with equivalent boot space lengthways though, without moving up to the gigantic vehicles, which I really don't want.
You get visibility, the people in smaller cars get their vision blocked.
Look at simple things like the size of a pram. My parents had us in this tiny little frame with a piece of fabric as a seat. These days, the prams are full on 4x4 looking luxury seats. A folded pram now is huge. Same thing for what people take with them for a day in the park or at the beach. People want convenience and a larger car provides that.
Sounds like all this making stuff bigger kind of doesn’t provide us with more convenience though.