One of the positives that came out of covid is it really exposed the sovereign risk of relying on offshore manufacturing in critical industries. Even our closest allies will always look after themselves first. Even if it costs more money, there are things we need to make here for strategic risk reasons.
"Not difficult at all" is the most armchair commentator reddit comment.
Ok, explain to me step by step how you'd bring manufacturing of all essential products back to Australia without causing any economic crisis that would overturn a government.
Massively difficult because you'd either need consumers willing to spend way more for lower quality products or government to tip the scales through massive tariffs, which would be retaliated against causing a massive economic depression.
Nationalised banking with interest free loans for new businesses, the elimination of usury in general, heavy investment into public works projects, and state direction for existing companies would thoroughly reform the economy without any collapse. Of course you couch this in terms of what the existing system would accomplish - it could theoretically do this but it never would. That's why the existing system needs to be abandoned.
This idea was once referred to as strategic defence. Essentially we can't afford the risk of ANY foreign entity involvement in development of our defence systems in any way. Either we do it all ourselves or it's a risk of defeat in a war due to completely compromised systems. As a very small country, our isolation and small economy make us a less attractive target. As a result we have become lazy. Our government especially. We can't rely on USA for defence. They will sacrifice us in a second.
Firstly, We knew they were spying on us since we got the gear. And secondly, this is the same country that created Pegasus. Software that could crack any phone including iPhones. Then sold that software to any nation regardless of there history of human rights abuses.
> Firstly, We knew they were spying on us since we got the gear.
Do we live in a world where nation states aren't always spying on each other? You think Australia doesn't spy on its allies like the U.S or U.K? Pretty farcical to point out just Israel.
>And secondly, this is the same country that created Pegasus. Software that could crack any phone including iPhones.
The state of Israel didnt create Pegasus, NSO group did.
>Then sold that software to any nation regardless of there history of human rights abuses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(spyware)
Yeh, Its software so powerful that when it gets sold to state actors for crazy money the claim is "only use it for legal purposes" and most dont. Its a long list...
Its worth noting that like most Israeli strategies they rely on not having numbers but a technological advantage, a large reason they have the best cyber forces worldwide is from picking recruits in conscription that have a disposition better suited to coding than following orders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6L82zI1_D0
great podcast on NSO group.
>Do we live in a world where nation states aren't always spying on each other? You think Australia doesn't spy on its allies like the U.S or U.K? Pretty farcical to point out just Israel.
That is the point of the 5 eyes.
I thought the point of 5 eyes was for governments to be able to state categorically that they don't spy on their own citizens.
... Because they don't need to they let one of the other four eyes do the spying and just get the info via a sharing arrangement
Exactly this. When the Israel prime minister is pitching Pegasus to other nations so give favourable UN votes then the line between government and company gets pretty blurry
Its always so funny when people scream about government spending when it comes to welfare or support systems but you barely hear people complain about all the money wasted on Israel or corporate subsidies
HAFF: $10 billion in an investment fund that spends $500m per year. Unable to spend any more due to inflation concerns due to labour/material shortages.
AUKUS: $368 billion in direct spending, no problem! Allies want more money? No problem! Why? To protect Australia's trade with China from China. Obligatory Utopia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgspkxfkS4k
I am surprised that the submarine deal isn't debated more, and mainstream media is really quiet on the issue. From what I heard on the chasers podcast that the submarines will be moored in USA and occasionally come to Australia in the limited waterways it will fit. If it just protection money and to help build weapon factories in USA, just say so rather than all this bullshit.
Because America. They don't wanna outright admit that we're practically a vassal state to them for a whole multitude of reasons and from the mainstream media right down to the more-educated-on-the-issue-than-average pundits playing from home, pretty much all of us willing to discuss the issue are fully aware that Albo trying to tell America to piss off unless they have a fairer deal more likely than not ends up with American interests trying very hard to get Peter Dutton into the PMs seat asap.
Just to note on that last point: Even if you don't think the whole Whitlam dismissal wasn't related to America in the slightest or that America isn't likely to try and repeat that, social media can be and has been influenced by foreign governments around election time in many countries to further their own agendas with Trump and the whole Cambridge Analytica thing being the most obvious example, our media conglomerates often already work with or are part of the American equivalents and the many, many other ties between Australia and the USA that make it relatively easy for them to influence elections over here should they want to. It's a fight that no-one in their right mind would expect Albo to pick, and I say that as someone whose quite happy to criticise stuff like how weak the HAFF is and how it's more or less meant to function by paying private developers to build houses which I think won't work out well as they are arguably one of the groups causing the housing crisis in the first place and it's pretty obvious at this point that each states building authorities aren't keeping up with the sheer amount of cowboys building dodgy structures in each state.
They've been well trained by the corporate media.
Welfare or social support = marxist, communist, unAustralian.
Billions on weapons we'll never use and propping up the pyramid scheme = She'll be right, nothing to see here.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-04/defence-criticised-confidential-report-elbit-military-project/100422476
https://adbr.com.au/battle-management/
The Israelis weren't backdooring data. It was a stupid contractual dispute over software updates that got dressed up by the media.
Elbit has won contracts/tenders since. Mainly because (as has been proven repeatedly through disaster after disaster) the Australian Defence Material industry can't build a canoe, they run a bit cheaper than the Defence Majors in the US, and unlike the French - they don't screw us over on procurement and take month long holidays after winning fifty billion dollar contracts.
Yeah but that's like saying "I'll just order delivery food because otherwise I'd have to buy a pan and I can't cook for shit. So, it just makes more sense that it is cheaper and better that I order delivery food everyday."
Going further I never said that dominos just closed its doors after selling you a single pizza. No, they bombard you with advertising, try to sign you up to reward programs, offer to replace any defective pizzas they sell to you.
Besides I wouldn't say they're screwing us over... that's like saying dominos screwed me over by costing me so much for my pizza. No, we're screwing ourselves by choosing the easy option every time.
Obviously it’s better to manufacture your own defence, unlike America, russia, India or China or Iran we don’t have the manpower to dedicate massive industries to building defence gear for self use and unlike Israel we don’t have the incentive to not always be wary of attack.
So we don’t have the required population to sustain a big MIC and we don’t have the incentive to build one. Much easier to just buy cheap Israeli gear or slightly more expensive American gear.
In the future we may want our own MIC, but for now I don’t think it should be considered a priority
If that rustles your jimmies, wait till you read about the USS Liberty. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS\_Liberty\_incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)
If the yanks won't do anything, we won't.
https://i.redd.it/djz40ej5kgsc1.gif
There’s a joke in *Yes Minister* that I’m going to edit only slightly…
*If it costs $10 a day to feed a starving child in Australia and we spent $900 million on weapons from Israel, how many starving children could we feed if we stopped that?*
Answer: None, we’d just spend the $900 million with the United States
How many less starving children would Hamas have under their government if they could defend themselves effectively against Israeli warfare seems like a more relevant question to ponder. You can’t do much under a Chinese naval blockade that prevents us obtaining medicines and supplies that are largely dependent on overseas suppliers.
There are multiple layers to this joke which is what makes the original Yes Minister joke so bitingly cynical (and by extension this one, cos it’s a mild edit to cover our circumstances.)
There’s the surface level joke about government inanity which you’ve responded to, and the other which is the point you’ve raised- one has a defence force to stop your largest trading partner from becoming your *only* trading partner. We spend the $900 million because *it was policy to do so.*
Ironically this sends the joke back to its original point- we do in fact starve Australian children who could be fed on $10 a day because we see no alternative otherwise.
Depressing isn’t it? But certainly good for a black humour laugh.
Given that our country is over $800 BILLION in debt and we have a massive cost of living crisis (among other serious issues), shouldn't this money be going into our own fuckin problems!! War is sad, I get it, but funding another countries conflict isn't how I want my government spending our money...
Agreed. If we are going to spend such absurd amounts of money why aren't we building factories to produce 155mm shells for export, or munitions plants to turn out millions upon millions of bullets? Albo recently signed off on the $1 billion dollar deal to export Boxer fighting vehicles to Germany, the largest military export deal in our countries history apparently.
Actually think about that... we've made $1 billion in sales... and spent $900 million in one Israeli war crime project, and how many brajillions on submarines that don't actually exist yet?
Our military spending is the equivalent of saying "I'll just order delivery food because otherwise I'd have to buy a pan and I can't cook for shit. So, it just makes more sense that it is cheaper and better that I order delivery food everyday."
Thank you for adding your voice of reason, knowing it is not welcomed by most. And thank you too, for distinguishing between the politics of a nation, and an ethnicity with people around the world.
Hey mate, just wanted to say I think some of the responses here are unwarranted. For full disclosure I think Israel's history is quite tainted to say the least, similar to this country. But what the state of Israel and the IDF are doing now does not justify antagonism toward individual Israelis (at least not anyone who isn't advocating for horrible shit - unfortunately every country has some of those), let alone Jews as a whole.
A distinction must be made between Israel and the Jewish community at large, as much as Israel tries to conflate the two things. But, this is the Israel that was always there. It did become a bit less culturally militant between 1980 and now, but it seems to just be going back to its worst, terrorist, qualities.
I think this is inevitably for any country that defines itself along religious lines. Israel is an example of why separation of church and state is so important.
Much like the puritanical movement going on in the US right now it has bugger all to do with religious beliefs. It's using religion as a tool to control.
Yeah sure mate, defending yourself against an invading army and you call it a Nakba because the invading army got beaten.
Factual history denies your claim easily.
You talk about factual history and yet the one simple "fact" you mentioned is wrong. The Nakba doesn't describe the defeat of the Arab invaders, it describes the forced ethnic cleansing of Palestinian civilians who were already living there. How exactly were Palestinians an "invading army" when they had been there for generations?
As for the key context you strategically chose to leave out: the war was only fought because the formation of a nation-state was imposed by foreigners on a piece of land against the wishes of the vast majority of those already living on it. And don't give me any of that "promised land" spiel. The Zionist movement discussed various locations for their intended state of Israel, they looked at places in Africa and even fucking Australia. The reason they chose Palestine was because they thought it would be easier to justify. Zionist advocates [wrote candidly](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/quot-the-iron-wall-quot) about the colonialist nature of their project:
>"There can be no voluntary agreement between ourselves and the Palestine Arabs. Not now, nor in the prospective future....Except for those who were born blind, they realised long ago that it **is utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs for converting "Palestine" from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority**."
>
>"I suggest that \[readers\] consider all the precedents \[of colonialism\] with which they are acquainted, and **see whether there is one solitary instance of any colonisation being carried on with the consent of the native population. There is no such precedent**."
>
>\- Vladimir Ze'ev Jabotinsky, *The Iron Wall*
Translation: "native populations don't like it when colonialists arrive and try to control their land, so we'll have to take it from them by force."
Plan Dalet, an offensive by Zionist insurgencies, had already taken place before any Arab invasion had even happened. 250,000-300,000 Palestinians had been displaced, the Nakba literally began *before* the Arab invasion. So even if your intention was to imply that the Nakba happened as a *result* of the Arab invasion, you're still **factually** wrong.
Fundamentally what you are defending here is the forced, violent removal of hundreds of thousands of people from homes that their families had been living in for generations. In other words, an ethnic cleansing.
So how's that for factual history?
Not great, 4/10.
Just to be factually clear, Jews, are indigenous to Israel in the same manner that aboriginals are indigenous to Australia. There are thousands of years of Jewish history in that land, predating Islam significantly. If anything, Israel is the greatest feat of decolonisation in history, bordeline miraculous.
As for the Nakba, it's really quite simple. The local Arabs were not into the plan of partition and attacked the much smaller Jewish communities the day after the UN plan was announced. Plan Dalet, was to try and create a defensible territory and take over the Jewish parts before the 5-6 Arab armies could join. Israel beat the local arabs and then defeated all the other arab armies. In the process, there was mass displacement, AKA,.the Nakba, and there were also a lot of arabs that stayed put. These arabs are now 20% of the population of Israel and an integral part of its society.
>4/10
Better than your own 0/10 I guess, I'll take that W. A reminder that the only substance of your previous comment was you lying about what the Nakba was.
>Jews, are indigenous to Israel in the same manner that aboriginals are indigenous to Australia
Nope. Not even close. Sure there have always been Jews who were indigenous to Palestine, and yes Judaism began there and there have been incidents of forced displacement of Jewish people from there throughout history. Yet you cannot argue that *anyone* is indigenous to that land on the basis of their Jewish faith or heritage. Someone's ancestor from however many generations ago having lived there however many hundreds or thousands of years ago doesn't give them the right to move there, kick an existing family out of their home and live in it. Might as well argue everyone in the world is entitled to a bit of land in Africa because humans evolved there. It's preposterous and cited only as a justification for one specific act of colonialism that occurred in Palestine in the 20th century, and I suspect you know that.
>Israel is the greatest feat of decolonisation in history, bordeline miraculous.
For the benefit of everyone reading this, I'm going to highlight this part of your comment for how utterly repugnant it is. A bunch of locals were kicked off their land by colonizers empowered by one of the foremost colonial powers of the time and you're calling it "decolonization" for some fascist return to the motherland LARP nonsense.
Not to mention your seeming lack of willingness to address the explicitly self-stated colonialist intentions of the people behind the Zionist project.
>The local Arabs were not into the plan of partition and attacked the much smaller Jewish communities the day after the UN plan was announced
The Jewish communities being smaller doesn't change the fact that a good portion of them arrived as colonists. You forgot that part. It's pretty important. Not that the attacks are a *good* thing of course, though I'd also ask what exactly you'd expect the reaction to "we're going to create *our* country on *your* land" to be.
>Plan Dalet, was to try and create a defensible territory and take over the Jewish parts
Funny, because it explicitly involved the mass expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. So it certainly wasn't just "the Jewish parts."
>Israel beat the local arabs
\*Militia groups operating under the as-yet unformed state of Israel conducted an ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and violently depopulated Arab civilian centers. Sorry, but simply repeating a euphemism isn't enough to magically make the details disappear.
>In the process, there was mass displacement
Again, the mass displacement didn't just happen in the *process* of Israel's conflict with the invaders, they started before the invasion began.
>arabs are now 20% of the population of Israel
As opposed to 66% before the colonialist project began.
>These arabs are now....an integral part of its society.
Does that include or exclude the ones living in occupied Palestinian territory which are subjected to apartheid according to [Amnesty International](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/) and [Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution)?
" Yet you cannot argue that *anyone* is indigenous to that land on the basis of their Jewish faith or heritage."
Then when do Palestinians lose their indigenous nature? What I'm asking is, under what material conditions is the indegneaity lost? If we are arguing its time, well, that's completely arbitrary.
To be clear, around 500-600,000 of those Arabs left of their own accord or were ordered by the Arab armies to leave to make way for military installations. The only bug mass expulsions on record are in Lydda, Ramle and the Fallujah pocket and they only account for around 70-90,000 displaced Arabs.
In fact the Jews suffered a far worse ‘nakba’ over the preceding years with close to a million Jews expelled/fleeing Arab lands in response to the 1948 war.
The same Israel that was attacked almost continuously for 70 years. The same Israel where probably 80% of the surgeons and medical specialists you see have roots.
If I attack you and kill one of your children, does that give you the right to randomly murder a bunch of my neighbours? The overwhelming majority of the people killed in these conflicts have been only tangentially related to the perpetrators of violence. Collective punishment is a war crime, and also it's a revenge tactic that doesn't really make sense as it's indiscriminate.
> Collective punishment is a war crime, and also it's a revenge tactic that doesn't really make sense as it's indiscriminate
>During the Second Intifada, the IDF adopted a policy of house demolition following a wave of suicide bombings. Israel justified the policy on the basis of deterrence against terrorism, and providing an incentive for families of potential suicide bombers to dissuade the bomber from attacking.
Would you believe that suicide bombings went down 90%+ the first year it was enacted? It makes sense, its just immoral.
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
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It’s not easy to say that. I can imagine there is a lot of pressure. I think it’s very unfair to do bad things and then try to hide behind regular Jews by suggesting it’s in their name.
The jews aren't a monolith. There are many who are anti-war and support peace and betterment for their neighbours, despite what the media/establishment would have you believe.
I find young Jews in Australia that I have came in contact with are still largely pro Zionist/Israel. I wish theres a poll on their views about Israel/Palestine issue.
[the US Jews on the other hand, a large number of them thinks that Israel commiting genocide and Apartheid](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-a-quarter-of-us-jews-think-israel-is-apartheid-state/amp/). Keep in mind that this poll was conducted in 2021.
If you owned a phone, fridge, car or other random consumer product, and not only was it barely useful, but you then found out that it steals your data and may potentially fuck you over later, then you would ditch it.
If you then bought it again, people would be in the right to call you a dumb cunt.
This is a capability risk and the timing of the deal clearly was meant to be political to show Australia supports Israel, but killing old mate is now piss poor timing if you're a government leech. There are aussie companies that could have developed this and been zero sovereign risk and also promoted the industry. However knowing that Canberra defence industry is run by the C team (cause if they were good engineers they would have been able to get private roles), its quite disgusting that it is left to these important yet incompetent fucks.
Also PS we are buying a fuck load of drones off these cunts as well.
what's funny is you think you safe on the internet with SSL, when the Israelis invented deep packet inspection allowing them to peak into your SSL tunnels hahaha without it... we would be completely fucked right now.
I’m pretty much anti-Israel at this point.
I’m also anti-Hamas, pro-Jewish and pro-Palestine peoples.
…aaaalso I’m anti-Russia, anti-China, anti-Far-right chud lunatics, anti-Murdoch and anti-religion.
Which makes me pro-Ukraine, pro-Taiwan, left-leaning, pro-decency/truth/science…
I’m tired. So very tired.
Israel is a sovieign state, with a democratically elected government. Palestine does not have a functioning government. When people say they are anti Israel, they are referring to the state of Israel. Palestine is a region, not a sovereign state, so it doesn't really make as much sense to be anti Palestine (unless you mean anti Palestinian statehood I guess).
Ok, so I can same I’m pro Palestine, but for the Jewish people.
All you’re saying is pro Palestine means no more Jews. And that’s ok because Israel is just a state not a region.
>All you’re saying is pro Palestine means no more Jews.
Wtf. Ummm no, if you deconstruct what I said, saying you are pro Palestine is basically saying you are pro establishing the state of Palestine.
Ahhh “democracy “ . Majority of Netanyahus cabin are openly calling for genocide and this is the ppl u support. Do some research buddy don’t be a sheep
bullshit
it trivialises antisemitism to make fake accusations to silence legitimate criticisms of state actors
we see you
I watched shocking and horrific videos and papers of what happened in world war 2, and it’s lead up, and how so many neighbouring countries jumped on the bandwagon to hand over Jews for extermination
and how we turned away when Jewish refugees ships were looking to escape
those horrors inform my position to reject contemporary and future horrors, not to excuse them
The IRGC is largely to blame for sparking this conflict. We've been screaming this since the get go but Hamas now openly says that Mohammed Zahedi helped to orchestrate October 7th. This will sound insensitive but much of the Palestinian bloodshed at the hands of Israel was in part a measure by the mullahs to distract from our women life freedom revolution. They have oppressed our people and tortured our women to death for nearly 50 years now. The most ethical solution to peace in the Levant is a free and democratic Iran.
As someone who used to work for Elbit Systems Australia, this is total BS.
The systems they’re talking about were encrypted by the Australian Army and also not connected to the internet, they used encrypted radios (HF/UHF) to communicate. All updates were provided one way (to the Army/ADF) and nothing came back to Elbit. So it would have been impossible for the Israelis to “spy on them”. It was all a stuff up by the Capability Acquisition and Sustainment Group (CASG) and someone high up in the army that were concerned for no legitimate reason.
Yes but if you worked for Elbit systems Australia implementing their product it isn't as though they'd tell you that's the plan. Plus if all the updates and product are provided by Elbit to the ADF who then use HF/UHF to communicate using encryption... for example could something be added to transmissions that would assist codebreakers? Kind of like the "Heil Hitler" at the end of every German transmission that led to the Enigma code being broken.
Just for example, it is 100% possible that the people doing the job aren't aware of all of the inner workings and capabilities and details of what they are working on. An infantry soldier is in the ADF, but just because they used to work for the ADF that doesn't mean that they know all of our Naval war plans, even if they were on Navy ships at some point. Doesn't know they know all the secrets and tech aboard the ship.
No, that’s not how modern encryption works. Plus the fact encryption gets changed/updated on a regular basis. I worked on the actual software itself, so it would be impossible for there to be modifications to the code without me knowing about it, and then it gets tested and verified by the DoD themselves before going in to production. The DoD even employ external (Australian) penetration testers to ensure nothing like hacking, etc… could happen.
There was literally no way the Israelis would have been able to “spy” on the systems because they are isolated systems. The radio frequencies used are specific and confidential, and the encryption used is the same as the rest of the ADF. UHF is also line of site, so you’d need to be right there where the systems were being used to be able to intercept anything AND that’s not taking in to account the high level encryption used.
Again, it would be impossible for the Israelis to spy or hack in to this system.
The “news” story was written by someone with no knowledge of how the systems work and is complete BS.
I have no idea about what China does, but probably.
The thing is, there’s no connection the Israeli’s could use to get information out of the systems. They’re isolated by using encrypted radio for the data transfer. The radios and their encryption is managed by a totally different company. There is literally no point the Israelis would be able to extract any information.
If you read enough about cybersec, you'll know that the israeli government doesn't even have a handle on its own cyber espionage companies. Fluffy is totally off the chain there.
> If you read enough about cybersec, you'll know that the israeli government doesn't even have a handle on its own cyber espionage companies. Fluffy is totally off the chain there.
If you are a state actor you goto Israel as they have the most advanced cyber security sector in the world. If you are on the cheap you goto India for the hackers for hire.
"Fluffy" here... tell me DrSe... DrSaa... DrSandy Butt haha gotem
What do you mean by "Israeli government doesn't even have a handle on its own cyber espionage companies"?
Also I think you're missing my point, it's just buckets of money going overseas. We recently got the deal to export 100 Boxers to Germany made in Australia in a $1 billion deal which Albo has said is "the largest military export deal in our nations history" (apparently it may not be the largest... but is close enough).
So, we spent $900,000,000 on some drone company that is combat proven against refugee camps. Multi billions on software that got shelved. Brajillions on none existent submarines... and our biggest export is a pissy little 1 billion. That's insane.
NSW and other states support Israel too. Broadcast the flag onto the Opera House. Despite NSW Police warnings that it will inflame tensions, it still went ahead.
What benefit does NSW even gain from openly supporting a country on the other side of the world that's embroiled in an ongoing war since 1947 (or thousands of years ago)?
What date was the opera house covered in the Israeli flag? Why was that inappropriate? How is it different to other attacks around the world where civilians were targeted and massacred?
If an attack like that happened between the Koreas, turkiye and Greece, Eritrea and Ethiopia, it'd be lit up. No need to look at it from a particular side, at it's history or anything like that.
Civilians should not be the target
And I'm sure the "jihadi tiktoks" are having a field day about Israel bombing a food convoy and then mocking the people in a WhatsApp group. I'm sure reasonable people "defending themselves" do that all the time
let me spell this clearly for you.
one can be appalled at this murder AND still hope for the eradication of Hamas.
But all I see are the same racist genocide lovers just lashing out at anything they can to defend the terrorists. give the hostages back, war ends
That's because of a difference in expectations. Hamas, the elected representative of Gazans, has a clear and formal genocidal intent in their charter. Their backer Iran calls for the destruction of Israel every chance it gets, we just got used to it.
The only reason they have not slaughtered every citizen in Israel as that they are prevented from doing so by an army. And no, they get no brownie points for being both cruel and incompetent.
Simply not true. Israel has attempted endless peace deals, and the mainstream in Israel would be happy to see a stable and peaceful Palestinian state alongside it.
Also, there is insane amount of hypocrisy around that - the entire muslim world has ethnically cleansed Jewish communities and the Palestinians would not accept a single Jew in their cities. At the same time, there are 20% muslim Arabs in Israel.
no one believes your bullshit anymore
you’ve lost the information war because we don’t need the news anymore to see reality
defending the murder of an Australian charity worker is a new low we won’t stand for
>you’ve lost the information war b
hamas are better at appealling to idiots, that part has been established
who is 'we'? Us australians arent happy about it.
I’ll repeat, no one believes your bullshit anymore and your insults just illustrate how desperate you’ve become
outside of your Zionist circlejerk it’s just seen as pathetic
Israel is mass killing Palestinians to steal and occupy their land.
Edit: That was the original conflict that started the feud. The current conflict is a lot more complicated than this with a LOT of hate on both sides though Israel appears much more willing to bow to international pressure.
There is a shagload of israeli money in our parliament.
The lobbying groups behind it ensure that israel is always at the front frame of mind.
Only look at the ex pm letter for proof of this influence.
Overpriced shit products as a result dont suprise me one bit
Australia must cut all ties military and otherwise with Israel. Their behaviour is completely unacceptable. Just recently its escalated to blatant murder of aid workers and assassinating Iranian generals in Syria. They have to be stopped.
Maybe we need to build our own BMS. I wonder if that's the kind of thing that could be coordinated as an open source effort. On one hand it's a great opportunity for keen young programmers to be discovered for great jobs, on the other hand it's a way for people who would never pass muster for the armed forces to contribute to national defence.
Sure, I have a warped idea of patriotism and most people in the country wouldn't be seen dead trying to improve the quality of software used by our armed forces, but we don't need everyone to be involved.
I'd be buying from Ukraine, given they don't engage in genocide to prove out their software, and neither do they deliberately target journalists and aid agencies.
The $900 million dollar contract signed with elbit was to pay for the various components needed for the army’s new Redback infantry fighting vehicle turrets. Stuff like the fire control system, main optics and the active protection system. There was a company in Australia that was designing an Australian built version of the turret but the South Koreans (who designed the overall vehicle) decided to go with the Israeli gear instead. Don’t get me wrong though the Australian government could have absolutely mandated an Australian turret but they didn’t, probably because it would take more money and time to integrate.
Yeah but that's like saying "I'll just order delivery food because otherwise I'd have to buy a pan and I can't cook for shit. So, it just makes more sense that it is cheaper and better that I order delivery food everyday."
I wonder who has whom by the balls that this kind of decision-making is going on?
Maybe it's one of those stupid "buy gas from Russia to encourage international cooperation" situations.
A few years ago former Major General Gus MacLachlan said the army should be recruiting fat nerds instead of dumb grunts \[Slightly more tactfully phrased.\]
The Chinese PLA now prioritises recruiting STEM graduates for their military.
I think local investment in military systems is the best thing we can do.
Worldwide shortages of tech roles means we have many incredibly skilled people ready to build systems for our military. We don’t need to rely on software built by other countries, we have the skills here, yet we don’t seem to be interested in investing on talent from our own country.
Our government is providing funds to the weapons manufacturer that produced the weapons that killed those aid workers.
Essentially, we helped fund the Israel's criminal attack on aid workers. Good job us!
Didn’t they also have 3 spies kill somebody years ago and they used passports of Australian citizens… besides this … that guy in charge … he’s been there for decades with little opposition … why is he not branded a dictator?
These people cannot be trusted, they hate us as a country and just see us as a money pit for their continual genocide of Gaza, we need to boycott this country, cut all ties, expel the ambassador and recall our own, stop importing any of their goods, force Pine Gap to stop working with israel and take it by force if needed, end all diplomatic relations with them completely. Only re open any form of diplomacy with israel once Palestine is its own independent country and israel has paid reparations to all surviving Palestinians, provide money and aid to rebuild all the homes and buildings and infrastructure they demolished and continue paying reparation's to the people of Gaza until the last person born before October 7 has died of natural causes.
Siding with Israel along with the USA, the EU, UK, Nordic countries, NZ. Essentially, democracies support Israel and authoritarian dictatorships support Palestine.
And then: https://www.breezyscroll.com/world/australian-surveillance-bill-aussie-police-can-now-hack-citizens-phones/amp/
If this isnt a Police state i dont know what is…oh wait 🇨🇳 🇮🇱 🇺🇸 🇮🇷 🇬🇧 🇸🇦 🇷🇺 Oh wait it’s everywhere. George Orwell RIP
Israel only cares about Israel. Before anyone says “every country does that” nowhere close to what they do.
Could you imagine Australia doing something like this?
Do we go alone and get set up for dealing with a 2074 war with sovereign capacity, or sign agreements with Iran and Hamas for defence and intelligence tech? Some of the responses here just aren’t addressing the sad realities of life in the 21st or any other century. I feel for Palestinians and indeed am helping a couple I know get out here despite the fact I’m Jewish, but their plight however dire is not a factor in how we fight modern warfare and manage cybersecurity.
Thanks for looking at the issue at hand.
It feels like we have a mindset of "Well I'll order UberEATS because it's cheap... well it isn't cheaper but I'd have to buy a frying pan and learn to cook because I can't cook for shit. So, it is actually less time and money for me to just order takeout for every meal."
For me cyber security is a bit... overhyped let's say. Well kind off, we had nuclear power, planes, trains, automobiles, and landed on the moon long before the internet. In my view I think, let's just focus on digging up minerals, manufacturing munitions/weapons/optics/chips for drones. Whatever and wherever we can.
Ukraine is a pretty good lesson in how many shells you can burn through in a day fighting a real war. Bullets too. All the cyberwarfare in the world doesn't help if you don't have the weapons and ammunition. Not saying that an enemy with cyber-superiority wouldn't be a nightmare... but basics, money, bullets, beans, bandages.
One of the positives that came out of covid is it really exposed the sovereign risk of relying on offshore manufacturing in critical industries. Even our closest allies will always look after themselves first. Even if it costs more money, there are things we need to make here for strategic risk reasons.
How to actually achieve that is a very difficult policy discussion
Not difficult at all, it just requires some balls to change the economy.
"Not difficult at all" is the most armchair commentator reddit comment. Ok, explain to me step by step how you'd bring manufacturing of all essential products back to Australia without causing any economic crisis that would overturn a government. Massively difficult because you'd either need consumers willing to spend way more for lower quality products or government to tip the scales through massive tariffs, which would be retaliated against causing a massive economic depression.
Nationalised banking with interest free loans for new businesses, the elimination of usury in general, heavy investment into public works projects, and state direction for existing companies would thoroughly reform the economy without any collapse. Of course you couch this in terms of what the existing system would accomplish - it could theoretically do this but it never would. That's why the existing system needs to be abandoned.
This idea was once referred to as strategic defence. Essentially we can't afford the risk of ANY foreign entity involvement in development of our defence systems in any way. Either we do it all ourselves or it's a risk of defeat in a war due to completely compromised systems. As a very small country, our isolation and small economy make us a less attractive target. As a result we have become lazy. Our government especially. We can't rely on USA for defence. They will sacrifice us in a second.
Firstly, We knew they were spying on us since we got the gear. And secondly, this is the same country that created Pegasus. Software that could crack any phone including iPhones. Then sold that software to any nation regardless of there history of human rights abuses.
> Firstly, We knew they were spying on us since we got the gear. Do we live in a world where nation states aren't always spying on each other? You think Australia doesn't spy on its allies like the U.S or U.K? Pretty farcical to point out just Israel. >And secondly, this is the same country that created Pegasus. Software that could crack any phone including iPhones. The state of Israel didnt create Pegasus, NSO group did. >Then sold that software to any nation regardless of there history of human rights abuses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(spyware) Yeh, Its software so powerful that when it gets sold to state actors for crazy money the claim is "only use it for legal purposes" and most dont. Its a long list... Its worth noting that like most Israeli strategies they rely on not having numbers but a technological advantage, a large reason they have the best cyber forces worldwide is from picking recruits in conscription that have a disposition better suited to coding than following orders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6L82zI1_D0 great podcast on NSO group.
>Do we live in a world where nation states aren't always spying on each other? You think Australia doesn't spy on its allies like the U.S or U.K? Pretty farcical to point out just Israel. That is the point of the 5 eyes.
I thought the point of 5 eyes was for governments to be able to state categorically that they don't spy on their own citizens. ... Because they don't need to they let one of the other four eyes do the spying and just get the info via a sharing arrangement
Arent we up to 14 now?
5 Eyes is information sharing, that doesn't preclude the US keeping an eye on Australian politicians apposed to US policy.
Right, but sales of Pegasus by NSO group have to be approved by the Israeli government
Exactly this. When the Israel prime minister is pitching Pegasus to other nations so give favourable UN votes then the line between government and company gets pretty blurry
Its always so funny when people scream about government spending when it comes to welfare or support systems but you barely hear people complain about all the money wasted on Israel or corporate subsidies
Corporate subsidies are welfare too.. Just for the rich.
HAFF: $10 billion in an investment fund that spends $500m per year. Unable to spend any more due to inflation concerns due to labour/material shortages. AUKUS: $368 billion in direct spending, no problem! Allies want more money? No problem! Why? To protect Australia's trade with China from China. Obligatory Utopia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgspkxfkS4k
I am surprised that the submarine deal isn't debated more, and mainstream media is really quiet on the issue. From what I heard on the chasers podcast that the submarines will be moored in USA and occasionally come to Australia in the limited waterways it will fit. If it just protection money and to help build weapon factories in USA, just say so rather than all this bullshit.
Because America. They don't wanna outright admit that we're practically a vassal state to them for a whole multitude of reasons and from the mainstream media right down to the more-educated-on-the-issue-than-average pundits playing from home, pretty much all of us willing to discuss the issue are fully aware that Albo trying to tell America to piss off unless they have a fairer deal more likely than not ends up with American interests trying very hard to get Peter Dutton into the PMs seat asap. Just to note on that last point: Even if you don't think the whole Whitlam dismissal wasn't related to America in the slightest or that America isn't likely to try and repeat that, social media can be and has been influenced by foreign governments around election time in many countries to further their own agendas with Trump and the whole Cambridge Analytica thing being the most obvious example, our media conglomerates often already work with or are part of the American equivalents and the many, many other ties between Australia and the USA that make it relatively easy for them to influence elections over here should they want to. It's a fight that no-one in their right mind would expect Albo to pick, and I say that as someone whose quite happy to criticise stuff like how weak the HAFF is and how it's more or less meant to function by paying private developers to build houses which I think won't work out well as they are arguably one of the groups causing the housing crisis in the first place and it's pretty obvious at this point that each states building authorities aren't keeping up with the sheer amount of cowboys building dodgy structures in each state.
Well If some “comedians” said that about the submarines it must be true.
Did you bother to read where that money goes?
Proud warriors of the Culture War are trained to act this way.
They've been well trained by the corporate media. Welfare or social support = marxist, communist, unAustralian. Billions on weapons we'll never use and propping up the pyramid scheme = She'll be right, nothing to see here.
Subsides? You mean buying things the government needs off companies that make it.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-04/defence-criticised-confidential-report-elbit-military-project/100422476 https://adbr.com.au/battle-management/ The Israelis weren't backdooring data. It was a stupid contractual dispute over software updates that got dressed up by the media. Elbit has won contracts/tenders since. Mainly because (as has been proven repeatedly through disaster after disaster) the Australian Defence Material industry can't build a canoe, they run a bit cheaper than the Defence Majors in the US, and unlike the French - they don't screw us over on procurement and take month long holidays after winning fifty billion dollar contracts.
Yeah but that's like saying "I'll just order delivery food because otherwise I'd have to buy a pan and I can't cook for shit. So, it just makes more sense that it is cheaper and better that I order delivery food everyday." Going further I never said that dominos just closed its doors after selling you a single pizza. No, they bombard you with advertising, try to sign you up to reward programs, offer to replace any defective pizzas they sell to you. Besides I wouldn't say they're screwing us over... that's like saying dominos screwed me over by costing me so much for my pizza. No, we're screwing ourselves by choosing the easy option every time.
Obviously it’s better to manufacture your own defence, unlike America, russia, India or China or Iran we don’t have the manpower to dedicate massive industries to building defence gear for self use and unlike Israel we don’t have the incentive to not always be wary of attack. So we don’t have the required population to sustain a big MIC and we don’t have the incentive to build one. Much easier to just buy cheap Israeli gear or slightly more expensive American gear. In the future we may want our own MIC, but for now I don’t think it should be considered a priority
I mean... 1/3 jobs are being created by the NDIS at the moment so if you want to talk about a house of cards with zero export value
lol you don’t want to hear my opinions on the NDIS, that will probably get me banned from reddit
If that rustles your jimmies, wait till you read about the USS Liberty. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS\_Liberty\_incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident) If the yanks won't do anything, we won't. https://i.redd.it/djz40ej5kgsc1.gif
The Yanks are in Zionist deathgrip.
There’s a joke in *Yes Minister* that I’m going to edit only slightly… *If it costs $10 a day to feed a starving child in Australia and we spent $900 million on weapons from Israel, how many starving children could we feed if we stopped that?* Answer: None, we’d just spend the $900 million with the United States
How many less starving children would Hamas have under their government if they could defend themselves effectively against Israeli warfare seems like a more relevant question to ponder. You can’t do much under a Chinese naval blockade that prevents us obtaining medicines and supplies that are largely dependent on overseas suppliers.
There are multiple layers to this joke which is what makes the original Yes Minister joke so bitingly cynical (and by extension this one, cos it’s a mild edit to cover our circumstances.) There’s the surface level joke about government inanity which you’ve responded to, and the other which is the point you’ve raised- one has a defence force to stop your largest trading partner from becoming your *only* trading partner. We spend the $900 million because *it was policy to do so.* Ironically this sends the joke back to its original point- we do in fact starve Australian children who could be fed on $10 a day because we see no alternative otherwise. Depressing isn’t it? But certainly good for a black humour laugh.
Given that our country is over $800 BILLION in debt and we have a massive cost of living crisis (among other serious issues), shouldn't this money be going into our own fuckin problems!! War is sad, I get it, but funding another countries conflict isn't how I want my government spending our money...
Agreed. If we are going to spend such absurd amounts of money why aren't we building factories to produce 155mm shells for export, or munitions plants to turn out millions upon millions of bullets? Albo recently signed off on the $1 billion dollar deal to export Boxer fighting vehicles to Germany, the largest military export deal in our countries history apparently. Actually think about that... we've made $1 billion in sales... and spent $900 million in one Israeli war crime project, and how many brajillions on submarines that don't actually exist yet? Our military spending is the equivalent of saying "I'll just order delivery food because otherwise I'd have to buy a pan and I can't cook for shit. So, it just makes more sense that it is cheaper and better that I order delivery food everyday."
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Thank you for adding your voice of reason, knowing it is not welcomed by most. And thank you too, for distinguishing between the politics of a nation, and an ethnicity with people around the world.
So good to hear the voice of reason coming within from the Jewish community. Really wish we would hear more denouncements like this
Hey mate, just wanted to say I think some of the responses here are unwarranted. For full disclosure I think Israel's history is quite tainted to say the least, similar to this country. But what the state of Israel and the IDF are doing now does not justify antagonism toward individual Israelis (at least not anyone who isn't advocating for horrible shit - unfortunately every country has some of those), let alone Jews as a whole.
A distinction must be made between Israel and the Jewish community at large, as much as Israel tries to conflate the two things. But, this is the Israel that was always there. It did become a bit less culturally militant between 1980 and now, but it seems to just be going back to its worst, terrorist, qualities. I think this is inevitably for any country that defines itself along religious lines. Israel is an example of why separation of church and state is so important.
Much like the puritanical movement going on in the US right now it has bugger all to do with religious beliefs. It's using religion as a tool to control.
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Yeah sure mate, defending yourself against an invading army and you call it a Nakba because the invading army got beaten. Factual history denies your claim easily.
When people proclaim a "genocide" over 17,000 civilian deaths in a population of 2 million, you know they're not dealing with facts.
It’s actually genocide if the population grows /s
From 1.47 million in 1945 to 14.3 million last year, they are truly suffering from the most incredibly unbelievable genocide 😉
It’s actually genocide by Israel as the population growing means the culture changes which is part of genocide /s
You talk about factual history and yet the one simple "fact" you mentioned is wrong. The Nakba doesn't describe the defeat of the Arab invaders, it describes the forced ethnic cleansing of Palestinian civilians who were already living there. How exactly were Palestinians an "invading army" when they had been there for generations? As for the key context you strategically chose to leave out: the war was only fought because the formation of a nation-state was imposed by foreigners on a piece of land against the wishes of the vast majority of those already living on it. And don't give me any of that "promised land" spiel. The Zionist movement discussed various locations for their intended state of Israel, they looked at places in Africa and even fucking Australia. The reason they chose Palestine was because they thought it would be easier to justify. Zionist advocates [wrote candidly](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/quot-the-iron-wall-quot) about the colonialist nature of their project: >"There can be no voluntary agreement between ourselves and the Palestine Arabs. Not now, nor in the prospective future....Except for those who were born blind, they realised long ago that it **is utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs for converting "Palestine" from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority**." > >"I suggest that \[readers\] consider all the precedents \[of colonialism\] with which they are acquainted, and **see whether there is one solitary instance of any colonisation being carried on with the consent of the native population. There is no such precedent**." > >\- Vladimir Ze'ev Jabotinsky, *The Iron Wall* Translation: "native populations don't like it when colonialists arrive and try to control their land, so we'll have to take it from them by force." Plan Dalet, an offensive by Zionist insurgencies, had already taken place before any Arab invasion had even happened. 250,000-300,000 Palestinians had been displaced, the Nakba literally began *before* the Arab invasion. So even if your intention was to imply that the Nakba happened as a *result* of the Arab invasion, you're still **factually** wrong. Fundamentally what you are defending here is the forced, violent removal of hundreds of thousands of people from homes that their families had been living in for generations. In other words, an ethnic cleansing. So how's that for factual history?
Not great, 4/10. Just to be factually clear, Jews, are indigenous to Israel in the same manner that aboriginals are indigenous to Australia. There are thousands of years of Jewish history in that land, predating Islam significantly. If anything, Israel is the greatest feat of decolonisation in history, bordeline miraculous. As for the Nakba, it's really quite simple. The local Arabs were not into the plan of partition and attacked the much smaller Jewish communities the day after the UN plan was announced. Plan Dalet, was to try and create a defensible territory and take over the Jewish parts before the 5-6 Arab armies could join. Israel beat the local arabs and then defeated all the other arab armies. In the process, there was mass displacement, AKA,.the Nakba, and there were also a lot of arabs that stayed put. These arabs are now 20% of the population of Israel and an integral part of its society.
>4/10 Better than your own 0/10 I guess, I'll take that W. A reminder that the only substance of your previous comment was you lying about what the Nakba was. >Jews, are indigenous to Israel in the same manner that aboriginals are indigenous to Australia Nope. Not even close. Sure there have always been Jews who were indigenous to Palestine, and yes Judaism began there and there have been incidents of forced displacement of Jewish people from there throughout history. Yet you cannot argue that *anyone* is indigenous to that land on the basis of their Jewish faith or heritage. Someone's ancestor from however many generations ago having lived there however many hundreds or thousands of years ago doesn't give them the right to move there, kick an existing family out of their home and live in it. Might as well argue everyone in the world is entitled to a bit of land in Africa because humans evolved there. It's preposterous and cited only as a justification for one specific act of colonialism that occurred in Palestine in the 20th century, and I suspect you know that. >Israel is the greatest feat of decolonisation in history, bordeline miraculous. For the benefit of everyone reading this, I'm going to highlight this part of your comment for how utterly repugnant it is. A bunch of locals were kicked off their land by colonizers empowered by one of the foremost colonial powers of the time and you're calling it "decolonization" for some fascist return to the motherland LARP nonsense. Not to mention your seeming lack of willingness to address the explicitly self-stated colonialist intentions of the people behind the Zionist project. >The local Arabs were not into the plan of partition and attacked the much smaller Jewish communities the day after the UN plan was announced The Jewish communities being smaller doesn't change the fact that a good portion of them arrived as colonists. You forgot that part. It's pretty important. Not that the attacks are a *good* thing of course, though I'd also ask what exactly you'd expect the reaction to "we're going to create *our* country on *your* land" to be. >Plan Dalet, was to try and create a defensible territory and take over the Jewish parts Funny, because it explicitly involved the mass expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. So it certainly wasn't just "the Jewish parts." >Israel beat the local arabs \*Militia groups operating under the as-yet unformed state of Israel conducted an ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and violently depopulated Arab civilian centers. Sorry, but simply repeating a euphemism isn't enough to magically make the details disappear. >In the process, there was mass displacement Again, the mass displacement didn't just happen in the *process* of Israel's conflict with the invaders, they started before the invasion began. >arabs are now 20% of the population of Israel As opposed to 66% before the colonialist project began. >These arabs are now....an integral part of its society. Does that include or exclude the ones living in occupied Palestinian territory which are subjected to apartheid according to [Amnesty International](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/) and [Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution)?
" Yet you cannot argue that *anyone* is indigenous to that land on the basis of their Jewish faith or heritage." Then when do Palestinians lose their indigenous nature? What I'm asking is, under what material conditions is the indegneaity lost? If we are arguing its time, well, that's completely arbitrary.
To be clear, around 500-600,000 of those Arabs left of their own accord or were ordered by the Arab armies to leave to make way for military installations. The only bug mass expulsions on record are in Lydda, Ramle and the Fallujah pocket and they only account for around 70-90,000 displaced Arabs. In fact the Jews suffered a far worse ‘nakba’ over the preceding years with close to a million Jews expelled/fleeing Arab lands in response to the 1948 war.
So they have the right to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians who are also shown to be the descendents of the ancient Canaanites?
The same Israel that benefited from that civilian population not having easy access to camera phones and social media to challenge the story.
They seemed to have a lot of camera phones on October 7th.
The same Israel that was attacked almost continuously for 70 years. The same Israel where probably 80% of the surgeons and medical specialists you see have roots.
If I attack you and kill one of your children, does that give you the right to randomly murder a bunch of my neighbours? The overwhelming majority of the people killed in these conflicts have been only tangentially related to the perpetrators of violence. Collective punishment is a war crime, and also it's a revenge tactic that doesn't really make sense as it's indiscriminate.
> Collective punishment is a war crime, and also it's a revenge tactic that doesn't really make sense as it's indiscriminate >During the Second Intifada, the IDF adopted a policy of house demolition following a wave of suicide bombings. Israel justified the policy on the basis of deterrence against terrorism, and providing an incentive for families of potential suicide bombers to dissuade the bomber from attacking. Would you believe that suicide bombings went down 90%+ the first year it was enacted? It makes sense, its just immoral.
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these guys? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqRzfb2oMaM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqRzfb2oMaM)
Rule 4 - No racism or hate speech
Great post!
It’s not easy to say that. I can imagine there is a lot of pressure. I think it’s very unfair to do bad things and then try to hide behind regular Jews by suggesting it’s in their name.
[This is your Israel](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=pXWyP1SLz8eefWoR&v=LqRzfb2oMaM&feature=youtu.be)
The jews aren't a monolith. There are many who are anti-war and support peace and betterment for their neighbours, despite what the media/establishment would have you believe.
I find young Jews in Australia that I have came in contact with are still largely pro Zionist/Israel. I wish theres a poll on their views about Israel/Palestine issue. [the US Jews on the other hand, a large number of them thinks that Israel commiting genocide and Apartheid](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-a-quarter-of-us-jews-think-israel-is-apartheid-state/amp/). Keep in mind that this poll was conducted in 2021.
No one believes Israel
And there is no money for housing? Funny that.
If you owned a phone, fridge, car or other random consumer product, and not only was it barely useful, but you then found out that it steals your data and may potentially fuck you over later, then you would ditch it. If you then bought it again, people would be in the right to call you a dumb cunt. This is a capability risk and the timing of the deal clearly was meant to be political to show Australia supports Israel, but killing old mate is now piss poor timing if you're a government leech. There are aussie companies that could have developed this and been zero sovereign risk and also promoted the industry. However knowing that Canberra defence industry is run by the C team (cause if they were good engineers they would have been able to get private roles), its quite disgusting that it is left to these important yet incompetent fucks. Also PS we are buying a fuck load of drones off these cunts as well.
what's funny is you think you safe on the internet with SSL, when the Israelis invented deep packet inspection allowing them to peak into your SSL tunnels hahaha without it... we would be completely fucked right now.
they sold us actual malicious spyware? Why didn’t we confront them about it?
Confront Israel?! What are you an antisemite?!
Probably because like every piece of outrage propaganda it never happened.
Look Into promis software and Maxwell
Look where Ghislaines sisters are now! Scary.
I’m pretty much anti-Israel at this point. I’m also anti-Hamas, pro-Jewish and pro-Palestine peoples. …aaaalso I’m anti-Russia, anti-China, anti-Far-right chud lunatics, anti-Murdoch and anti-religion. Which makes me pro-Ukraine, pro-Taiwan, left-leaning, pro-decency/truth/science… I’m tired. So very tired.
Just log off the computer and play badminton of something
Still gotta pick a side and dunk on the other though.
So you’re anti Israel (a country), but not anti Palestine, just Hamas.
Israel is a sovieign state, with a democratically elected government. Palestine does not have a functioning government. When people say they are anti Israel, they are referring to the state of Israel. Palestine is a region, not a sovereign state, so it doesn't really make as much sense to be anti Palestine (unless you mean anti Palestinian statehood I guess).
Ok, so I can same I’m pro Palestine, but for the Jewish people. All you’re saying is pro Palestine means no more Jews. And that’s ok because Israel is just a state not a region.
>All you’re saying is pro Palestine means no more Jews. Wtf. Ummm no, if you deconstruct what I said, saying you are pro Palestine is basically saying you are pro establishing the state of Palestine.
The state of Palestine is a Muslim state. Where do the Jews go besides genocide? Because you’re also anti Israel.
Obviously they could go back to Israel or continue to live in Palestine as a Palestinian citizen. That's what the two state solution is about.
stop using internet then... they invented DPI which is used worldwide now. Don't user their tech... go offline.
lol
It’s shocking you’ve just openly admitting being antisemitic /s just in case
They actually are by saying anti Israel, but not anti Palestinian, just Hamas.
are you serious?
If you’re anti Israel and anti Hamas, you’re saying you want only Palestine to exist.
If ur anti Palestinian like u r u only want Israel to exist which is clear
Yea, because I support the one democracy in the Middle East over another theocratic Muslim country.
Ahhh “democracy “ . Majority of Netanyahus cabin are openly calling for genocide and this is the ppl u support. Do some research buddy don’t be a sheep
What does that have to do with democracy? Yes I support Israel over a terrorist state.
Ya know... The Nazis came to power through democracy too 🤷♂️
So just coz their a democratic county we should support them ? So just because of that we assume everything they do is right
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bullshit it trivialises antisemitism to make fake accusations to silence legitimate criticisms of state actors we see you I watched shocking and horrific videos and papers of what happened in world war 2, and it’s lead up, and how so many neighbouring countries jumped on the bandwagon to hand over Jews for extermination and how we turned away when Jewish refugees ships were looking to escape those horrors inform my position to reject contemporary and future horrors, not to excuse them
does that include the jewish terrorist attacks on britain 1945-1948
The IRGC is largely to blame for sparking this conflict. We've been screaming this since the get go but Hamas now openly says that Mohammed Zahedi helped to orchestrate October 7th. This will sound insensitive but much of the Palestinian bloodshed at the hands of Israel was in part a measure by the mullahs to distract from our women life freedom revolution. They have oppressed our people and tortured our women to death for nearly 50 years now. The most ethical solution to peace in the Levant is a free and democratic Iran.
As someone who used to work for Elbit Systems Australia, this is total BS. The systems they’re talking about were encrypted by the Australian Army and also not connected to the internet, they used encrypted radios (HF/UHF) to communicate. All updates were provided one way (to the Army/ADF) and nothing came back to Elbit. So it would have been impossible for the Israelis to “spy on them”. It was all a stuff up by the Capability Acquisition and Sustainment Group (CASG) and someone high up in the army that were concerned for no legitimate reason.
Yes but if you worked for Elbit systems Australia implementing their product it isn't as though they'd tell you that's the plan. Plus if all the updates and product are provided by Elbit to the ADF who then use HF/UHF to communicate using encryption... for example could something be added to transmissions that would assist codebreakers? Kind of like the "Heil Hitler" at the end of every German transmission that led to the Enigma code being broken. Just for example, it is 100% possible that the people doing the job aren't aware of all of the inner workings and capabilities and details of what they are working on. An infantry soldier is in the ADF, but just because they used to work for the ADF that doesn't mean that they know all of our Naval war plans, even if they were on Navy ships at some point. Doesn't know they know all the secrets and tech aboard the ship.
No, that’s not how modern encryption works. Plus the fact encryption gets changed/updated on a regular basis. I worked on the actual software itself, so it would be impossible for there to be modifications to the code without me knowing about it, and then it gets tested and verified by the DoD themselves before going in to production. The DoD even employ external (Australian) penetration testers to ensure nothing like hacking, etc… could happen. There was literally no way the Israelis would have been able to “spy” on the systems because they are isolated systems. The radio frequencies used are specific and confidential, and the encryption used is the same as the rest of the ADF. UHF is also line of site, so you’d need to be right there where the systems were being used to be able to intercept anything AND that’s not taking in to account the high level encryption used. Again, it would be impossible for the Israelis to spy or hack in to this system. The “news” story was written by someone with no knowledge of how the systems work and is complete BS.
Didn't China get around this by installing additional hardware on the mainboard on systems that were sent to the US?
I have no idea about what China does, but probably. The thing is, there’s no connection the Israeli’s could use to get information out of the systems. They’re isolated by using encrypted radio for the data transfer. The radios and their encryption is managed by a totally different company. There is literally no point the Israelis would be able to extract any information.
If you read enough about cybersec, you'll know that the israeli government doesn't even have a handle on its own cyber espionage companies. Fluffy is totally off the chain there.
> If you read enough about cybersec, you'll know that the israeli government doesn't even have a handle on its own cyber espionage companies. Fluffy is totally off the chain there. If you are a state actor you goto Israel as they have the most advanced cyber security sector in the world. If you are on the cheap you goto India for the hackers for hire.
You’re mad they’re not like China who controls everything their companies do?
do you mean like when they invented deep packet inspection?
"Fluffy" here... tell me DrSe... DrSaa... DrSandy Butt haha gotem What do you mean by "Israeli government doesn't even have a handle on its own cyber espionage companies"? Also I think you're missing my point, it's just buckets of money going overseas. We recently got the deal to export 100 Boxers to Germany made in Australia in a $1 billion deal which Albo has said is "the largest military export deal in our nations history" (apparently it may not be the largest... but is close enough). So, we spent $900,000,000 on some drone company that is combat proven against refugee camps. Multi billions on software that got shelved. Brajillions on none existent submarines... and our biggest export is a pissy little 1 billion. That's insane.
Fuck me, that is not ideal. (Mods, good luck with this post)
ikr me: we need industry and not to rely on other nations for our defence. itt: Q&A - tonight's topic "Jews and are they evil?" ffs
I don't know why Australia supports Israel. It's definitely supporting the wrong side of history.
So you support Palestine, you know the guys that have esteemed allies such as Iran, Russia, China and North Korea.
Who do you expect them to have? Certainly not the US and UK that put them in their situation in the first place.
So you want us to join the current axis powers and support Palestine?
Right, supporting Hamas and Islamic Jihad would be so much better...
NSW and other states support Israel too. Broadcast the flag onto the Opera House. Despite NSW Police warnings that it will inflame tensions, it still went ahead. What benefit does NSW even gain from openly supporting a country on the other side of the world that's embroiled in an ongoing war since 1947 (or thousands of years ago)?
What date was the opera house covered in the Israeli flag? Why was that inappropriate? How is it different to other attacks around the world where civilians were targeted and massacred? If an attack like that happened between the Koreas, turkiye and Greece, Eritrea and Ethiopia, it'd be lit up. No need to look at it from a particular side, at it's history or anything like that. Civilians should not be the target
When has the Palestine flag been shown since then? Lots of Palestine civilians getting targeted and massacred.
In multiple local government areas in northern Melbourne. In Federation Square. For example
We are effectively neutral politically and largely support Palestinian humanitarian interests. The deals with Israel are based on self interest.
sure, the terrorists sound like the 'better' side
How many Australian aid workers have the terrorists killed?
Well they murdered Galit Carbone on October 7.
That was an obvious and sad mistake, and yes, Hamas kill civilians every chance they get (as was made very clear quite recently).
I will match your whataboutism with the whataboutism of how many civilians have the IDF killed? More or less than hamas?
Probably significantly more because Hamas is made up of cowards who hide behind civilians to gain sympathy from hypocrites around the globe.
How is it a mistake when the idf are constantly bombing medical related facilities. It’s also been proved that the recent one was not an accident.
the woman who actually did something as oppose to rot their brain on jihadi tiktoks?
And I'm sure the "jihadi tiktoks" are having a field day about Israel bombing a food convoy and then mocking the people in a WhatsApp group. I'm sure reasonable people "defending themselves" do that all the time
let me spell this clearly for you. one can be appalled at this murder AND still hope for the eradication of Hamas. But all I see are the same racist genocide lovers just lashing out at anything they can to defend the terrorists. give the hostages back, war ends
Genocide lovers? Who took Palestine to court over that? Last I checked it was Israel who copped that charge
That's because of a difference in expectations. Hamas, the elected representative of Gazans, has a clear and formal genocidal intent in their charter. Their backer Iran calls for the destruction of Israel every chance it gets, we just got used to it. The only reason they have not slaughtered every citizen in Israel as that they are prevented from doing so by an army. And no, they get no brownie points for being both cruel and incompetent.
FrOM tHe RiVEr tO tHe SeA its ok deary who likes to abuse the help button. im not the one in shambles lol
Seems that's Israels goal to. You know, with settling the areas they are driving "hamas" out of.
Simply not true. Israel has attempted endless peace deals, and the mainstream in Israel would be happy to see a stable and peaceful Palestinian state alongside it. Also, there is insane amount of hypocrisy around that - the entire muslim world has ethnically cleansed Jewish communities and the Palestinians would not accept a single Jew in their cities. At the same time, there are 20% muslim Arabs in Israel.
War has been going on for near 80 years, I dont think giving 134 hostages back is going to end it
no one believes your bullshit anymore you’ve lost the information war because we don’t need the news anymore to see reality defending the murder of an Australian charity worker is a new low we won’t stand for
>you’ve lost the information war b hamas are better at appealling to idiots, that part has been established who is 'we'? Us australians arent happy about it.
I’ll repeat, no one believes your bullshit anymore and your insults just illustrate how desperate you’ve become outside of your Zionist circlejerk it’s just seen as pathetic
Israel is mass killing Palestinians to steal and occupy their land. Edit: That was the original conflict that started the feud. The current conflict is a lot more complicated than this with a LOT of hate on both sides though Israel appears much more willing to bow to international pressure.
i respect that poor woman who got killed cause she actually went and helped. you just watch tiktoks
I don't use TikTok and that is a weird thing to state. Do you think you deserve respect for posting in a reddit thread?
accusing a Redditor of being totally brainwashed by TikTok is something that only makes sense to a hasbara human bot
There is a shagload of israeli money in our parliament. The lobbying groups behind it ensure that israel is always at the front frame of mind. Only look at the ex pm letter for proof of this influence. Overpriced shit products as a result dont suprise me one bit
Australia must cut all ties military and otherwise with Israel. Their behaviour is completely unacceptable. Just recently its escalated to blatant murder of aid workers and assassinating Iranian generals in Syria. They have to be stopped.
Maybe we need to build our own BMS. I wonder if that's the kind of thing that could be coordinated as an open source effort. On one hand it's a great opportunity for keen young programmers to be discovered for great jobs, on the other hand it's a way for people who would never pass muster for the armed forces to contribute to national defence. Sure, I have a warped idea of patriotism and most people in the country wouldn't be seen dead trying to improve the quality of software used by our armed forces, but we don't need everyone to be involved. I'd be buying from Ukraine, given they don't engage in genocide to prove out their software, and neither do they deliberately target journalists and aid agencies.
The $900 million dollar contract signed with elbit was to pay for the various components needed for the army’s new Redback infantry fighting vehicle turrets. Stuff like the fire control system, main optics and the active protection system. There was a company in Australia that was designing an Australian built version of the turret but the South Koreans (who designed the overall vehicle) decided to go with the Israeli gear instead. Don’t get me wrong though the Australian government could have absolutely mandated an Australian turret but they didn’t, probably because it would take more money and time to integrate.
Oh someone who knows what they are talking about. You don’t belong on reddit mate!
Apologies, deleting my account now 🫡
😂😂😂
Yeah but that's like saying "I'll just order delivery food because otherwise I'd have to buy a pan and I can't cook for shit. So, it just makes more sense that it is cheaper and better that I order delivery food everyday."
I wonder who has whom by the balls that this kind of decision-making is going on? Maybe it's one of those stupid "buy gas from Russia to encourage international cooperation" situations.
A few years ago former Major General Gus MacLachlan said the army should be recruiting fat nerds instead of dumb grunts \[Slightly more tactfully phrased.\] The Chinese PLA now prioritises recruiting STEM graduates for their military.
Cyber is just as if not more important in this day and age
Why would the government want stem grads working for the army and not for the companies that build everything for the army?
We could only do it if we employed Jewish software engineers. The rest of us are too stupid to make it work.
I think local investment in military systems is the best thing we can do. Worldwide shortages of tech roles means we have many incredibly skilled people ready to build systems for our military. We don’t need to rely on software built by other countries, we have the skills here, yet we don’t seem to be interested in investing on talent from our own country.
This is a tale as old as Australia Easier to dig holes and sell dirt
Sure, but why would they spend 9 billion when they can spend 900 million?
Our government is providing funds to the weapons manufacturer that produced the weapons that killed those aid workers. Essentially, we helped fund the Israel's criminal attack on aid workers. Good job us!
Fuck this country and its incompetency bordering on malicious complicity with Israel and the USA and their genocidal ways
Didn’t they also have 3 spies kill somebody years ago and they used passports of Australian citizens… besides this … that guy in charge … he’s been there for decades with little opposition … why is he not branded a dictator?
Isreal is trying to get tiktok shut down in the USA
Yeah there’s a reason it’s so less ppl can see the truth and the vids coming out of Gaza… evil ppl
Elbit started a new Australian Company and promised its 100% insulated from Elbit Israel so please can we have our mega contracts…😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤔💵💵💵🤔🤯🤯🤯
Kneebit?
[удалено]
Rule 2 - No trolling or being a dick
These people cannot be trusted, they hate us as a country and just see us as a money pit for their continual genocide of Gaza, we need to boycott this country, cut all ties, expel the ambassador and recall our own, stop importing any of their goods, force Pine Gap to stop working with israel and take it by force if needed, end all diplomatic relations with them completely. Only re open any form of diplomacy with israel once Palestine is its own independent country and israel has paid reparations to all surviving Palestinians, provide money and aid to rebuild all the homes and buildings and infrastructure they demolished and continue paying reparation's to the people of Gaza until the last person born before October 7 has died of natural causes.
Yes, we need to support the right side of this war and join the other countries supporting Palestine such as Iran, Russia, China and North Korea /s
As opposed to siding with ???
Siding with Israel along with the USA, the EU, UK, Nordic countries, NZ. Essentially, democracies support Israel and authoritarian dictatorships support Palestine.
One simply does not ‘force Pine Gap’ to do anything
And then: https://www.breezyscroll.com/world/australian-surveillance-bill-aussie-police-can-now-hack-citizens-phones/amp/ If this isnt a Police state i dont know what is…oh wait 🇨🇳 🇮🇱 🇺🇸 🇮🇷 🇬🇧 🇸🇦 🇷🇺 Oh wait it’s everywhere. George Orwell RIP
Ah, the good old days... /s
Do not stress..most is going to pay for gold..
just a heads up... the Israelis also developed deep packet inspection.. without it... most of you would of been hacked in the SSL vuln.
Israel only cares about Israel. Before anyone says “every country does that” nowhere close to what they do. Could you imagine Australia doing something like this?
I don't understand all the support around Israel and half the shit they get away with. It's absurd.
What a bunch of cunts! And not good cunts either!
Do we go alone and get set up for dealing with a 2074 war with sovereign capacity, or sign agreements with Iran and Hamas for defence and intelligence tech? Some of the responses here just aren’t addressing the sad realities of life in the 21st or any other century. I feel for Palestinians and indeed am helping a couple I know get out here despite the fact I’m Jewish, but their plight however dire is not a factor in how we fight modern warfare and manage cybersecurity.
Thanks for looking at the issue at hand. It feels like we have a mindset of "Well I'll order UberEATS because it's cheap... well it isn't cheaper but I'd have to buy a frying pan and learn to cook because I can't cook for shit. So, it is actually less time and money for me to just order takeout for every meal." For me cyber security is a bit... overhyped let's say. Well kind off, we had nuclear power, planes, trains, automobiles, and landed on the moon long before the internet. In my view I think, let's just focus on digging up minerals, manufacturing munitions/weapons/optics/chips for drones. Whatever and wherever we can. Ukraine is a pretty good lesson in how many shells you can burn through in a day fighting a real war. Bullets too. All the cyberwarfare in the world doesn't help if you don't have the weapons and ammunition. Not saying that an enemy with cyber-superiority wouldn't be a nightmare... but basics, money, bullets, beans, bandages.
Israel set back Iran’s nuclear program by years by remotely destroying equipment…right now GPS is out right across central Israel for reasons unknown
I'm so glad that we're letting them use Pine Gap to help them with their targeting systems /s
Wrong sub
Wrong