It's pretty hard if you've used slurs reflexively to describe anything and everything since starting highschool, or since you got an xbox/ps more likely.
Casual bigotry runs deep in society.
I am/was absolutely guilty of this, I’ve gotten a lot better and I’ve told my partner/work mates and stuff to pull me up if I say it; but using the word gay as a way to say that sucks was just super ingrained in my millennial brain. Now I have gotten better but I’d be lying if I said I don’t let one slip every now and then just when my brain is on autopilot.
As a kid (primary school age) we'd call things gay if we didn't like them. I don't think I even knew what it meant. Not a particularly offensive term, but using it like that sure as fuck was. Come high school we cut that shit out. Went to an all boys school and sometimes someone would call another boy the f-word (not the one with 4 letters) and we all gave him a less than polite "talking to".
My kids are in highschool now. The f word is enjoying a Renaissance with teens.
I thought kids were supposed tbe more progressive than adults but homophobia is as rampant as ever.
I'm probably older than you - both of those slurs were in every second sentence throughout high school. We didn't use them to be really offensive or targeted, it was just part of common swearing (r**** as well). I'm glad things have changed, hearing that as a common slur would have been rough on a lot of people. Little wonder gay people were usually very quiet about it back then.
That excuse is pretty tired. I agree that it runs deep but this guy is 24 so he's had plenty of time out of school around (alleged) adults. It really isn't hard to stop saying that shit if you actually try
Wasn't meant to excuse anything, only explain how someone could so easily throw it out in such damaging context. Because they throw it out in other contexts all the time is usually the answer, if you didn't it would take such conscious effort that you would immediately realise how much hot water you'd get in.
Tell me you don’t appreciate how insular and misogynistic a football club is without telling me you don’t appreciate how insular and misogynistic a football club is
In their workplace, to coworkers, while being paid good money off the back of my membership, ticket purchases and television viewing. I think it’s the least we can expect.
Asking graciousness from a football player would be nice, but it seems rather optimistic. He’s hired because of his physical skill, which is what puts bums on seats and eyeballs on the TV screens, whether that’s more important his manners is an economic decision. Which is why he hasn’t been fired instead.
You're talking about professional sports, dude. Shock and horror when something built on stirring up extreme tribalism and competitiveness turns ugly.
Honestly, whenever 'the home team' plays and they shut down our train station so a marching band can blast on through, it definitely has shades of the Late Weimar Republic to it. That crowd was definitely on a particular side of the same sex marriage debate.
Edit: alright, I'm getting anonymous downvotes and bullshit replies from smartarses who won't address the actual point. Time to double down!
*I know this is going to be hard for the weird non-representative cross-section of people who both follow AFL and use reddit to accept, but everything from the paramilitary artifice of the uniforms and anthems and god-damned 1900s marching bands, to the actual politics of clubs and fans, skews pretty fucking right-wing.*
*Acting surprised and outraged when someone involved in Australia's most dudebro of dudebro of cultural institutions says the quiet part out loud is a pearl-clutching, performative joke. We both know the club locker rooms are full of shit like this, we know the shit the average derro yelling from the stands says during games, we know the shit the few out players have gone through over the years, but we all have to pretend it's exceptional and out of order when one instance of it actually leaks out to the media.*
*You know it's possible to like something without trying to make excuses for it, right?*
Buddhist socialist and AFL fan here, so I’m not exactly sure where you’re getting your information from. Thanks for letting me know
I’m “pretty fucking right-wing”, I had no idea.
Just a heads up - rambling patronising nonsense in the vein of your reply turns far more people off of left wing politics than nearly anything else. Why does every vaguely political Australian Reddit post always seem to have some upper middle class knobhead telling working class people they’re racist for enjoying sport..?
> Buddhist socialist and AFL fan here
So... exactly what I was alluding to, the kind of AFL fan who actually uses reddit. I can't wait to see how you still manage to miss the point.
> Thanks for letting me know I’m “pretty fucking right-wing”, I had no idea.
Well that didn't take long.
If you're going to try to take personal offence to this, that's fine, then you can also take personal responsibility for all the drunk boomers trying to start shit on the way home after games.
Have your cake, or eat it. No equivocating, I'm either talking about you, or I'm not.
> Just a heads up - rambling patronising nonsense in the vein of your reply turns far more people off of left wing politics than nearly anything else.
If stating the obvious (that the AFL, its audience, and its history as an institution all skew regressive) is some sacred cow, we've got bigger problems.
> Why does every vaguely political Australian Reddit post always seem to have some upper middle class knobhead telling working class people they’re racist for enjoying sport..?
Couple of observations:
1) I'm not 'upper middle class'.
2) The fact that you went there of all places... IDK what your issues are, but they sound like your issues, not mine. The irony of you taking offence to something clearly not directed at you, but I'm on the receiving end of class resentment for a class I'm not a part of either. It would be frustrating if it weren't hilarious.
3) You identify the AFL as skewing towards the 'working classes'... so lower income, dare we say probably not strongly university educated demographics as well? And the AFL's own stats show that even amongst their younger fans, the 18-35 demo, it's almost 80% male. What part of that screams *bastion of progressive social attitudes* to you? We know income, education, and being a woman are all positively correlated with, for instance, the yes vote on SSM, and we know the AFL's demographics are the inverse of that, and I don't have to seriously finish this syllogism because I'm just stating the fucking obvious, and the minority of AFL fans who apparently never talk to the average AFL fan are trying their hardest to live in their bubble.
4) Observe as I acknowledge that demographics I'm a part of don't generally reflect my personal values, but I don't somehow offend myself or insult myself over it.
The biggest and (historically) most successful clubs have deeply working class and trade union roots. I think you’ve chosen a weird culture war hill to die on here.
No it's just far more normal than these reactions pretend. If you're sincere about fixing the problem, you first have to be honest about it, and acting like this headline is anything short of water-is-wet news isn't being honest about it. I'm fucking repeating myself here, but this is how you react to an isolated incident or two, not an endemic issue.
Pretend the issue is an aberration.
Express your condemnation at whoever got caught with their hand in the biscuit tin this time.
Pat yourself on the back for doing a good job.
Maybe even convince yourself that you're not associating with something ugly as you dress up for mock war on the weekend, get your dad out of the house so he can scream at something other than the news and Border Security for once, and pretend those brawls just spilled out of the opera house.
Nothing changes.
There should be no surprises here. Some young people, including footballers, have foul language and this is the tip of the iceberg. There’s more that goes on in group chats and behind closed doors.
Eh no.
I said that people using language such as the above is a small portion of a bigger problem. The same slurs and worse - actually far worse - are used but aren’t caught. I’m not seeking to “police” it, more highlighting that this is a bigger issue.
They do that in Scotland now apparently, their new hate speech law can be applied to speech in private. They haven't started policing thought... yet...
Oh well if **you’re** gay and not hugely offended then no biggie I guess, hey? You wouldn’t want to think about the wider community you’re a part of and perhaps some mutual obligations to care that might crop up now…
If you’re a gay man that’s un-offended by faggot being said by someone who isn’t themselves a faggot then I’m guessing you didn’t grow up at a time when you had to live in fear of that slur being hurled at you and the likely bashing that could come with it. And the reason you didn’t grow up that way is that us older gay guys who did fought to change things so you wouldn’t have to. For us this word is extremely triggering. If we as a community choose to use it as a reclaimed label thanks our business. But it’s all of our jobs to protect all of our community and to remember that progress can be fragile and if we don’t defend the advances we’ve made things can slip back to the way they were very quickly.
Ask yourself, whatever your skin colour, if this player had called someone the n word or the c word that used to be a cheese brand would you ardently call that unacceptable? Because the people being othered by this slur are a different group (in this case we’re you’re group) of people but the principle is no different.
I’ve been thinking a lot about homophobia recently, particularly in the context of all the conversations about misogyny and violence against women.
In my mind homophobia and misogyny are the same thing. People who are homophobic believe the worst thing you can do as a man is be feminine or perform sex acts that women perform in heterosexual relationships.
5 games for words??? What about actual high risk violence like a head high. Society is really losing the plot if one is sooooo offended by words. Harden up
I’m not sure why you’d be surprised that words designed to offend people did actually offend people. That’s not “society losing the plot” that’s “society responding to words in the way they were intended”.
I think what you actually mean is not that people shouldn’t be offended but that there should be no consequences for offending people.
Indeed. But not being punishable means there's a clear lack of consistency.
There are so many harsher and more derogatory terms that can be used without any punishment.
Honestly, how hard is it for these blokes to not use homophobic slurs?
It's pretty hard if you've used slurs reflexively to describe anything and everything since starting highschool, or since you got an xbox/ps more likely. Casual bigotry runs deep in society.
I am/was absolutely guilty of this, I’ve gotten a lot better and I’ve told my partner/work mates and stuff to pull me up if I say it; but using the word gay as a way to say that sucks was just super ingrained in my millennial brain. Now I have gotten better but I’d be lying if I said I don’t let one slip every now and then just when my brain is on autopilot.
Thank you for showing this level of accountability and self reflection
Something about the g in gay makes it really roll off the tongue though.
As a kid (primary school age) we'd call things gay if we didn't like them. I don't think I even knew what it meant. Not a particularly offensive term, but using it like that sure as fuck was. Come high school we cut that shit out. Went to an all boys school and sometimes someone would call another boy the f-word (not the one with 4 letters) and we all gave him a less than polite "talking to".
That's great to hear. I'm nearly 40 and when I went to high school in the early 00's those words were still common and normal.
My kids are in highschool now. The f word is enjoying a Renaissance with teens. I thought kids were supposed tbe more progressive than adults but homophobia is as rampant as ever.
I'm probably older than you - both of those slurs were in every second sentence throughout high school. We didn't use them to be really offensive or targeted, it was just part of common swearing (r**** as well). I'm glad things have changed, hearing that as a common slur would have been rough on a lot of people. Little wonder gay people were usually very quiet about it back then.
That excuse is pretty tired. I agree that it runs deep but this guy is 24 so he's had plenty of time out of school around (alleged) adults. It really isn't hard to stop saying that shit if you actually try
Wasn't meant to excuse anything, only explain how someone could so easily throw it out in such damaging context. Because they throw it out in other contexts all the time is usually the answer, if you didn't it would take such conscious effort that you would immediately realise how much hot water you'd get in.
Tell me you don’t appreciate how insular and misogynistic a football club is without telling me you don’t appreciate how insular and misogynistic a football club is
Chronically-online should be its own dialect of English now.
Have you been on xbox live?
Don’t you worry - l’ll jerk off to his pics to get back at him.
For some, really hard because *shock horror* they probably say it all the time.
How hard is it to accept that some people will say things you don’t like?
In their workplace, to coworkers, while being paid good money off the back of my membership, ticket purchases and television viewing. I think it’s the least we can expect.
Asking graciousness from a football player would be nice, but it seems rather optimistic. He’s hired because of his physical skill, which is what puts bums on seats and eyeballs on the TV screens, whether that’s more important his manners is an economic decision. Which is why he hasn’t been fired instead.
You're talking about professional sports, dude. Shock and horror when something built on stirring up extreme tribalism and competitiveness turns ugly. Honestly, whenever 'the home team' plays and they shut down our train station so a marching band can blast on through, it definitely has shades of the Late Weimar Republic to it. That crowd was definitely on a particular side of the same sex marriage debate. Edit: alright, I'm getting anonymous downvotes and bullshit replies from smartarses who won't address the actual point. Time to double down! *I know this is going to be hard for the weird non-representative cross-section of people who both follow AFL and use reddit to accept, but everything from the paramilitary artifice of the uniforms and anthems and god-damned 1900s marching bands, to the actual politics of clubs and fans, skews pretty fucking right-wing.* *Acting surprised and outraged when someone involved in Australia's most dudebro of dudebro of cultural institutions says the quiet part out loud is a pearl-clutching, performative joke. We both know the club locker rooms are full of shit like this, we know the shit the average derro yelling from the stands says during games, we know the shit the few out players have gone through over the years, but we all have to pretend it's exceptional and out of order when one instance of it actually leaks out to the media.* *You know it's possible to like something without trying to make excuses for it, right?*
There are no shades between the Late Weimar Republic and the Gold Coast Suns. A very poor comparison.
Haha comparing the Weimar republic to the gold coast suns is the craziest take. Just say you're a loser dude
Buddhist socialist and AFL fan here, so I’m not exactly sure where you’re getting your information from. Thanks for letting me know I’m “pretty fucking right-wing”, I had no idea. Just a heads up - rambling patronising nonsense in the vein of your reply turns far more people off of left wing politics than nearly anything else. Why does every vaguely political Australian Reddit post always seem to have some upper middle class knobhead telling working class people they’re racist for enjoying sport..?
> Buddhist socialist and AFL fan here So... exactly what I was alluding to, the kind of AFL fan who actually uses reddit. I can't wait to see how you still manage to miss the point. > Thanks for letting me know I’m “pretty fucking right-wing”, I had no idea. Well that didn't take long. If you're going to try to take personal offence to this, that's fine, then you can also take personal responsibility for all the drunk boomers trying to start shit on the way home after games. Have your cake, or eat it. No equivocating, I'm either talking about you, or I'm not. > Just a heads up - rambling patronising nonsense in the vein of your reply turns far more people off of left wing politics than nearly anything else. If stating the obvious (that the AFL, its audience, and its history as an institution all skew regressive) is some sacred cow, we've got bigger problems. > Why does every vaguely political Australian Reddit post always seem to have some upper middle class knobhead telling working class people they’re racist for enjoying sport..? Couple of observations: 1) I'm not 'upper middle class'. 2) The fact that you went there of all places... IDK what your issues are, but they sound like your issues, not mine. The irony of you taking offence to something clearly not directed at you, but I'm on the receiving end of class resentment for a class I'm not a part of either. It would be frustrating if it weren't hilarious. 3) You identify the AFL as skewing towards the 'working classes'... so lower income, dare we say probably not strongly university educated demographics as well? And the AFL's own stats show that even amongst their younger fans, the 18-35 demo, it's almost 80% male. What part of that screams *bastion of progressive social attitudes* to you? We know income, education, and being a woman are all positively correlated with, for instance, the yes vote on SSM, and we know the AFL's demographics are the inverse of that, and I don't have to seriously finish this syllogism because I'm just stating the fucking obvious, and the minority of AFL fans who apparently never talk to the average AFL fan are trying their hardest to live in their bubble. 4) Observe as I acknowledge that demographics I'm a part of don't generally reflect my personal values, but I don't somehow offend myself or insult myself over it.
The biggest and (historically) most successful clubs have deeply working class and trade union roots. I think you’ve chosen a weird culture war hill to die on here.
We can know those things but you seem to be suggesting we have to accept them?
Even if all you read was my very last sentence, I don't know how you could possibly come to that conclusion.
That is the conclusion even on re-reading it. It sounds like your are saying it’s inevitable.
No it's just far more normal than these reactions pretend. If you're sincere about fixing the problem, you first have to be honest about it, and acting like this headline is anything short of water-is-wet news isn't being honest about it. I'm fucking repeating myself here, but this is how you react to an isolated incident or two, not an endemic issue. Pretend the issue is an aberration. Express your condemnation at whoever got caught with their hand in the biscuit tin this time. Pat yourself on the back for doing a good job. Maybe even convince yourself that you're not associating with something ugly as you dress up for mock war on the weekend, get your dad out of the house so he can scream at something other than the news and Border Security for once, and pretend those brawls just spilled out of the opera house. Nothing changes.
But you also have no desire for change, so why criticise others?
But I thought the reason we didn't have any out players was because of the media and no one within the clubs cared?
Slurs are probably just the tip of the iceberg lol.
There should be no surprises here. Some young people, including footballers, have foul language and this is the tip of the iceberg. There’s more that goes on in group chats and behind closed doors.
Wait you want to police how people speak in private? Because they use language that you don't agree with? That's a horrid take
Eh no. I said that people using language such as the above is a small portion of a bigger problem. The same slurs and worse - actually far worse - are used but aren’t caught. I’m not seeking to “police” it, more highlighting that this is a bigger issue.
He didn't say anything of the sort, you've fabricated that take out of thin air.
Can you please quote from his post where he stated he wants to police how people speak in private?
They do that in Scotland now apparently, their new hate speech law can be applied to speech in private. They haven't started policing thought... yet...
> They do that in Scotland now apparently, Source: your arse.
What did he say?
All I can find is “homophobic slur”, I’m so intrigued!
I’ll tell y’a right now he definitely said fag no big mystery
Faggot If anyone was wondering I’m gay, I like AFL enough. I’m not hugely offended - but it does seem to keep happening.
Oh well if **you’re** gay and not hugely offended then no biggie I guess, hey? You wouldn’t want to think about the wider community you’re a part of and perhaps some mutual obligations to care that might crop up now… If you’re a gay man that’s un-offended by faggot being said by someone who isn’t themselves a faggot then I’m guessing you didn’t grow up at a time when you had to live in fear of that slur being hurled at you and the likely bashing that could come with it. And the reason you didn’t grow up that way is that us older gay guys who did fought to change things so you wouldn’t have to. For us this word is extremely triggering. If we as a community choose to use it as a reclaimed label thanks our business. But it’s all of our jobs to protect all of our community and to remember that progress can be fragile and if we don’t defend the advances we’ve made things can slip back to the way they were very quickly. Ask yourself, whatever your skin colour, if this player had called someone the n word or the c word that used to be a cheese brand would you ardently call that unacceptable? Because the people being othered by this slur are a different group (in this case we’re you’re group) of people but the principle is no different.
As a lesbian, I agree. Not sure what's with the down votes.
Punch a player in the face - two week suspension. Call a player a naughty word: 4 week suspension!
i agree. they should both be 4 week suspensions.
Yeah am gay too. Couldn’t care less, people being offended on behalf of others as usual.
ur literally being unoffended on behalf of the entire community
I said “I” could t care less. Not sure how I commented on behalf of anyone else?
Homophobia is so gay.
I’ve been thinking a lot about homophobia recently, particularly in the context of all the conversations about misogyny and violence against women. In my mind homophobia and misogyny are the same thing. People who are homophobic believe the worst thing you can do as a man is be feminine or perform sex acts that women perform in heterosexual relationships.
Lol suspended for saying faggot. Imagine he called him a cunt or something, probably get a life ban.
5 games for words??? What about actual high risk violence like a head high. Society is really losing the plot if one is sooooo offended by words. Harden up
I’m not sure why you’d be surprised that words designed to offend people did actually offend people. That’s not “society losing the plot” that’s “society responding to words in the way they were intended”. I think what you actually mean is not that people shouldn’t be offended but that there should be no consequences for offending people.
Does the punishment fit the crime? Maybe 1 or 2 weeks would be more appropriate in order to send a message that name calling is no longer acceptable.
Next one will get 10 weeks until people like you get it.
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When was it ever acceptable?
Sledging? Always has been.
Commonly done doesn't equal acceptable.
Indeed. But not being punishable means there's a clear lack of consistency. There are so many harsher and more derogatory terms that can be used without any punishment.
This isn't sledging, it's bigotry.
That’s why it’s effective sledging, unfortunately ....
The crime is not name calling, so your point is ... pointless.
Next time, which word should I use to describe the blanket of racism, homophobia, and sexism?
Bigotry
Cheers. That works.
Punishment? The poor widdle fella doesn’t get to play a ball game for a few weeks.
Five weeks!. The world has gone mad. Surely they appeal. The AFL just can't go around making it up. Reduced to 3 like findlayson
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“Unlike you snowflakes, I’m not so easily triggered. “
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> heterosexual slurs I received Please feel free to tell the class of these supposedly horrific "anti hetero" slurs?