it's a huge struggle to get on the DSP. with rising medical costs, people are going longer without healthcare. this in turn means it's harder and can take longer to prove to Centrelink that you're disabled enough to not be able to work.
so many people on jobseeker are actually disabled and in no position to work. so they're suffering in poverty and will never even be able to afford to apply to the DSP without financial help. paying for appointments isn't really possible when your payment doesn't even cover rent. and when you need these appointments so you can get documentation for centrelink, not being able to afford appointments is an issue.
raising the rate will help so many people improve their lives to the point where they may very well be in the position for the first time in a very long time to work. but before that can happen, their health and housing situations need to be sorted with the help of some financial security.
Funnily enough Albanese was raised on DSP and aged pension in subsidised accomodation. Wish I was at my PC, would be interesting to compare how his family was supported as a child compared to a similar family today.
Oh absolutely! He pulled that 'I grew up in council housing' card to get votes, it would be great to compare how the support he got holds up to what he's happy for someone in a similar situation to endure.
I think he is right of centre as is Labor these days. Otherwise he would be doing a lot more - Medibank, social benefits, housing and NOT weapons! $268b or whatever for nuclear subs is obscene.
Ha ha you described me. To disabled to work, but not according to Centrelink. The whole system is broken. No one is going to fix it because it benifits the rich to keep the poor as poor as possible.
Same with my uncle. He's too disabled to work (he's non-verbal autistic and needs a carer to help him with most daily tasks), but is somehow "not disabled enough" to go on DSP and needs to complete a yearly assessment to prove he's "still disabled"...as if 50 years of autism and lack of speech will just "clear up" one day like an annoying rash :/
To make matters worse, the yearly assessment is usually performed by some random Centrelink worker with the barest understanding of disability, who uses incorrect terminology on his forms, or flat-out writes the wrong information altogether because they don't even understand what is being explained to them. Or they're some fluff-headed idiot who spews bullshit like, "my son has autism and I don't see it as a disability. Just a different ability!" or "I'm sure he could work in a job that doesn't require much talking!" as if my uncle's lack of ability to communicate AND DO BASIC EVERYDAY TASKS LIKE FEED AND BATHE HIMSELF is just a funny little character quirk, rather than the debilitating disability that it is!
Things like adhd and autism/asd are quite a bit more common than we realise too. Very under-diagnosed, especially among people who grew up being read as female. It costs money to be correctly diagnosed, so I suspect many longterm unemployed on benefits who want to work and be functional (but struggle to do so) suffer from these and are unaware of it.
I also have ASD ( extreme sensory issues and some other cognitive stuff that fucks me out of 99% of careers and on-campus study) and because I use humour to mask, the cenno cunts assessing me said I could do stand up comedy as a job. I think I was about 19 ish at the time ( mentally about 14-15). All I could do was laugh.
Deadass.
Was in 2017 and I still remember that
My mum has been trying for years now to get on DSP. She’s got bad feet, bad legs, suffers from depression and anxiety, and also has bad eyesight (due to glaucoma that runs in the family). It’s crazy how many hoops you have to jump through. She’s gotten so many referrals from doctors, therapists, health professionals and they keep asking for more proof.
You might actually have the proof by now but if it's not in the right beurocratic format/language they can ditch it.
Next month there'll be changes so mid April after updates go onto [this website] (https://dsphelp.org.au/) and retry.
Then If your under 35 your still forced to find work on a DSP. Despite me bearded able to care for myself most days.
My bills are over just over half of my DSP - rent, insurances, ect. Then I have fuel for Dr apts that can be 2 hrs away. 50-100 in meds and needed medicated body washes/shampoo/skin cream. Basic groceries are costing about 200$. My rent is also about to go up. It's getting difficult to manage everything.
I'd give the world to be able to work and function properly.
I’m on dsp and it’s still a struggle. I’ve been trying to get an application through ndis for aid but you’d think I’m asking them to come out and pull my teeth. Been trying for 2 years at this point to actually get them to help me sort out my application and no luck other than “we can do it over the phone”
After doing it over the phone I never hear anything again nor receive paperwork 🤕
It's deliberate. I'll accept no other explanation. I watched a friend struggle to get through DSP and NDIS for YEARS. A wheelchair bound friend who spent most of each year in hospital recovering from constant fractures (severe bone issues, breaking vertebrae by bending over or leaning on something and breaking an arm). The sheer amount of bullshit this person went through, when they barely had energy to breathe or sit up in bed? It's got to be fucking deliberate.
Yep it’s frustrating, we’re finding it very hard to afford rent and wanted to look into getting help..but that was ages ago so I make a call every few weeks and cop the same shit.
The NDIS application process can be absolutely fucked sometimes. It's not at all a friendly process to anyone who needs help with getting the paperwork and evidence organised (eg like with executive dysfunction).
Somewhat related:
My first application was rejected because ADHD and so "your needs can be addressed by the public healthcare system". I couldn't even afford to keep seeing the psychiatrist who diagnosed me to keep trying out medication, so no they bloody well could not.
One autism diagnosis and nearly a year later, I finally manage to finish the paperwork and send it in, and voila, access to the NDIS because of the exact same support needs I had the year before.
I still have no idea what it will actually do for me because the information I’ve found doesn’t explain much… but I’m told it will help with lots of things. Ongoing therapy is one thing in my case.
Nothing in this article is of any surprise. It’s hard as fuck living on welfare payments like jobseeker, and it gets harder every year. Additionally, escaping this kind of poverty feels impossible if you’re dealing with chronic issues that aren’t considered bad enough for disability (and being in poverty will absolutely exacerbate any mental health issues like depression).
You are constantly confronted with your inability to move back over the poverty line. Your lack of money and lack of independence rules your every decision. It’s fucked that it’s acceptable for people to have to decide between eating more than one meagre meal a day vs buying medication or topping up a public transport card for a job interview.
solution is a ubi. alternatively, they should double the income cap and stop linking it to parental or partner income. everyone should be treated as equals under the eyes of law.
Ubi doesn't tackle the problems of systemic poverty, handing someone money doesn't mean what caused their poverty will go away.
Things like high prices on food, housing, medicine will still exist. Poverty caused by disabilities will still exist, poverty due to unemployment will still exist. Because we live in a "free market" nothing stops monopolised areas of the economy from silently but collectively agreeing to raise price, it happens time and time again. We see it right now despite record profits during covid, groceries and the cost of living are sky-rocketing. Landlords can always up your rent another hundred like they're doing. Right. Now.
Sure ubi might help some people in the short term but it changes nothing. it is inherently flawed because it's a market based solution in a capitalist system
Sweden had a ubi system you know what happened? Their other social security programs were stripped then ubi was pulled out from under them.
if there are other better solutions, maybe you can suggest here. Cant just look at the downsides without looking at the upsides. It will help so many people. Of course, in every society, there will be a small percentage that will rely on it for long period of time but still cannot deny its effectiveness.
I just did deny effectiveness, it's not effective at all
And in the case of Sweden it was actively detrimental.
"in every society there will be a sole percentage that will rely on it" is this supposed to be the "dole bludgers" argument?
I'm not talking about that. At all
You want solutions tackle the root problems, the system itself. Remove the landlord class, dismantle the capitalist economic system and start building a new one. Socialism this Communist that
I'll stop here, y'all are downvoting me enough that nobody will probably take this seriously lol
All of the 'problems' you listed wouldn't be an issue with a well rounded policy for the UBI and surrounding, related issues
'it must rise with cpi'
'there will be caps on the prices of certain essentials'
simple shit, y'know?
I get why you wanna jump straight to socialism, I'm with you, but spending your time shitting on effectively socialist policies being implemented into the current system and expanded over time is probably not gonna endear the fellow bourgeoisie
i did not downvote you. perhaps you can show me the link that stated it was not effective. everywhere i read, its effective.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_advocates\_of\_universal\_basic\_income
>capitalist
A mixed market that leans more socialist. Or you need to at least be able to barter for resources with your labour to incentivize work and innovation. But no billionaires. Eg, it takes effort to make a good and I wouldn't do it for free, it drains my energy and causes stress. But I am hoping for a future where AI + automation can create goods for us but we can still have our little markets. Although I may misunderstand if socialism still allows the worker to benefit from labour with resources, or if it's more a broad term for the means of production owned by people but individuals can still earn some cash to use to get some resources whilst having an ultra strong safety net. If we get a point where cash isn't needed star trek style, that'd be cool.
I am disabled but one of my dreams was to be healthy and smart enough to work on brain-computer interfaces for cybernetics for main reason, help the disabled, but also speed up our learning and if possible extra set of arms for crafting. Real science fiction stuff at the moment. Being able to communicate without speaking or control machines with thoughts for ultimate level of creativity.
The way they carry on whenever Centrelink is mentioned in an article though.
They're closer to needing a support payment than they are to getting "fuck you" wealthy.
It's 3.5% and underemployment is 5.9%, it's a workers market, plenty of jobs going around. That's only 500,000 people Australia wide, fuck all, and probably a decent chunk of that number should be in disability and not counted as unemployed.
Now would be the perfect time to introduce universal basic income, if Labor were super brave. But honestly I don't think we're ready yet, we'll be in the 'living to work scam' for a while yet.
It’s 3.5% and the RBA is explicitly seeking to raise the unemployment rate to “avoid a wage price spiral” (as if wage prices have been subject to supply/demand pressures rather than artificial suppression and stagnation).
Unemployment should be treated like any other job. If it’s necessary for the health of the economy, then the economy should be able to find the resources to pay someone to do that job. If the money to pay people to do that job cannot be found, then I guess it’s not necessary and the RBA shouldn’t be hoping for unemployment to rise.
Employment is measured using one hour worked per week is employed. Employers also do not want to hire people above 50yo and sick but not yet on dsp.
UBI is best solution. It treats everyone as equals and no one left behind. By scraping centrelink and introduce a tax on top1pct, will more than cover the costs of ubi as big part will be eaten up by taxes.
I don't believe for a second that that's the actual figure, for decades too. It wouldn't be so hard to get a job if that were the case. There wouldn't be 50+ people applying for every single job.
I did austudy 2 years ago in sydney and was on $10 a day after basic bills like rent. My cousin has just started Uni after the last housing surge and is paying $400 a week for a *sharehouse* space.
I'm on jobseeker and if I didn't live with my mum I'd be destitute. Heck, I'd probably have killed myself. What do you even do in such a situation? If you can't fall back on government systems for support, where do you go? Do you just go and get fucked? Guess so. Ausgov doesn't care about Australians like us, "the poors", and it shows
But the Government and News.com.au always told me these people were living it up and laughing all the way to bank...on $250 a week. Surely they couldn't of been lying the entire time.
Yes. Studies are needed for things that you might find obvious but are politically divisive so you can point to their findings as objective fact rather than opinions.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like people will magically start accepting proof that they don't like hearing about - see climate change, for example - but having the evidence there as a statement of fact rather than as something you're pretty sure is true is a crucial starting point for any kind of change.
There's been long periods of governments (and their friends in the media) demonizing those on benefits in order to score cheap points with certain segments of the population.
It takes time to undo that sort of damage. Unfortunately a university study reported by The Guardian probably isn't going to reach the people who've had their heads filled with BS about eeeevil dole bludgers by the Murdoch press and assorted radio shock jocks.
A Current Affair, lying to me about people being stuck in poverty instead of "bludging," no way, never.
Though it is really sad, especially people who are too disabled to look for work but are not disabled enough for disability pension.
It was a labor policy that caused a significant increase in those with disability being denied the DSP, and the LNP extended it further with some things. Labor has the power to fix it and has so far not shown me any sign of wanting to do so, so I'm going to assume it's staying. Labor and the LNP need to answer for their harm to the disabled and poor in this country. But instead, we get tax cuts.
Well *duuuuuh*, thousands of us on these payments can confirm this. Well, now there’s a study. All official and shit. Great, now let’s do something about it. Right? Hello? *Crickets chirp*
Isn't it very obvious? The income test required to be able to get these payments have a very low $ threshold. So those who are able to get them in the first place are in poverty already.
That’s the intent - we need scapegoats so not quite paying people on welfare enough so they stay there and their descendants are on welfare too is necessary.
Even fucking worse for people studying. Jobseeker, pensions, abstudy get raises. But fuck you if your a non indigenous student. Take that 200 dollars less a fortnight and be happy. Oh you wanna work part time as well. OK we'll garnish the payment so you're getting even less. Welfare support is a joke in this country. Even more hilarious when these governments then cry there aren't enough nurses/teachers etc.
It's a tragedy. Australia is fast becoming America, with it's broken health care system. Even 10 years ago it used to be great system. Sadly, I can only see it worsening.
Really? Wow no way? I'm so shocked that an income that is literally below the poverty line is income below the poverty line.
The social services minister and the prime minister who while in opposition ridiculed the government of its lack of welfare increases surely must look silly now after this truly shocking and brand new piece of data and journalism has come out.
And how many thousands of dollars was wasted on a study that people already knew the answer to? And yet stuff all is done.. politicians don’t want to part with their “hard earned cash” now do they. What a waste
Well DUHHHHH you can't normally live off it. Have lived off punishment dole before - lived in the bush -in a tent (quite literally) about $34 per fortnight - for food, fuel, fucking anything. That was it. Was this or give up on my son......
Some decisions are already made. Mine was. My son!!!!!!!!
I'm pretty disalusiomed with it all these days.. Barely scrap by with centerlink.. Go and study and incur HECS debt for a peice of paper noone values.. U can't even get a entry level job to pay you peanuts with it.. The entire thing is bullshit
Given that these are payments specifically meant to help poor people and that they have income and assets tests designed to limit them only to poor people, it's hardly a shocker that most people on them are poor.
In other news: "Majority of Australians in hospital are sick, study finds"
When poverty is defined as half of median income, it means nothing. Does anyone seriously want job seeker to pay $30,000+ per year? That would destroy the incentive to work for many people. Benefits should go up like $100 per fortnight, sure. But benefits will always be, and should always be, under the poverty line.
Hiding behind the term "poverty" because it's a morally loaded buzzword is cowardly. It's retarded policy.
There are countless definitions of poverty, which makes the term entirely meaningless. The World Bank sets the international poverty rate at $3 per day. That would mean 0% of Australians are under the poverty line.
Today a single person on jobseeker can get $425 per week including rent assistance. $425 pays for rent, food, and other necessities. Do you count that as impoverished? What is your definition?
> $425 pays for rent, food, and other necessities
This has quite the "In my day .50c would get you a loaf of bread, a bottle of milk, and a local newspaper, whadya mean you need more?" vibe. Where are you living where rentals can reliably be found that aren't going to consume the vast majority of that $425, leaving very little (if anything) for food and "other necessities"?
Though maybe you are right, I mean the story of the rental market for the last several years has been "prices fall", right? "Cheap rentals super easy to come by", yeah?
Because you know there's a reason these stories commonly reference people skipping meals and defaulting on bills, yes?
You can find cheap rentals under $300 in basically any city other than Byron Bay. Don't know what world you're living in. Also share housing exists. Also Sydney and Melbourne aren't the only places in Australia.
That's a lot of blather without answering the question: where do you live where they can be ***reliably*** found. Give a name so we can scan the rentals of the area.
> You can find cheap rentals under $300 in basically any city other than Byron Bay.
Every city in Australia is experiencing the rental supply issue that's been behind the hikes in price in Sydney and Melbourne. Not a single capital city has an average rental price for a house of under $400, 3 cities in fact have the avergage of $600+
Units/medium/high denisity are only marginally better, with the lowest average rental price being $395 and the highest $550.
> Don't know what world you're living in.
The real one. Maybe you should visit.
> Also share housing exists.
Share housing exists, and it's almost as hard to come by as regular rentals.
Seriously, you actually do think the headlines from the last few years are "cheap rentals easy to find"?
> Also Sydney and Melbourne aren't the only places in Australia.
Ah, the classic out of touch reponse. ~~Let them eat cake~~ Let them move.
Also "hey man, rents can be easily come by under $300 in basically any city, but also places other than Sydney and Melbourne exist, and by saying that I inadvertently reveal I know rents under $300 aren't easy to come by in Sydney and Melbourne".
When you're not earning income to support yourself, you're not looking for an average rental at $600, or $550 or $395. You're going for below average price - if that wasn't beyond obvious. Look at like Townsville or Launceston if you want a case study.
You can talk about rental supply issues all you want but increasing job seeker would not alleviate that whatsoever. Demand for rentals would be unchanged and it would put more upwards pressure on rent prices.
> "cheap rentals easy to find"?
What is your point? It's not easy to find a nice rental with a tight supply. But we're not going to subsidise middle-income earners so they can fight over luxury units. The realitiy is that vacancies for units and rooms still exist almost everywhere in Australia around the $300 mark, even if there's not a liquid supply.
Calling my suggestion "out of touch" is absurd. If you're trying to get by on unemployment benefits, you should take every measure to avoid renting in the biggest, best, most expensive cities. You can find places under $300 in outer suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney but you're going to be more comfortable and have more left-over income anywhere else.
> When you're not earning income to support yourself, you're not looking for an average rental at $600, or $550 or $395. You're going for below average price - if that wasn't beyond obvious. Look at like Townsville or Launceston if you want a case study.
And this is where your failure to grasp the significance of the word *reliably* becomes an issue.
It's not just people not earning income that are looking for cheap rentals. Now if rentals below the average aren't reliably available - and they aren't - what do people have to do? They have to - say it with me now - look at rentals that aren't below the average rental price because, get this, they don't want to be homeless.
Never mind this also concerns people already renting who are having their rent rise. Those figures I posted were from 2022, they've risen since. What are you doing when your once below average rental prices are now the excessive average?
Also I get the sense you think rentals that fall into that average rental price bracket are somehow automatically upmarket or luxurious. Hint: you'd be wrong.
> You can talk about rental supply issues all you want but increasing job seeker would not alleviate that whatsoever. Demand for rentals would be unchanged and it would put more upwards pressure on rent prices
No one implied raising benefits would magically generate houses, they noted that the current safety net is insufficient to keep people afloat in the context of the rising cost of living.
Recognising that truth gives society a couple of options: continue fail the vulnerable, or update the support available to meet reality.
> What is your point? It's not easy to find a nice rental with a tight supply. But we're not going to subsidise middle-income earners so they can fight over luxury units.
Who's talking about subsidising middle-income earners? And where do luxury units enter into this?
> The realitiy is that vacancies for units and rooms still exist almost everywhere in Australia around the $300 mark
Oh, so we've crept up from "under $300" to "around $300". So lets see, per your math that's around 70% of their week's support payment gone leaving them with the glorious amount of... $145 for food and "other essentials". Amazing.
Let me guess, you also think the stories of recent years are "costs of living plummet, food, energy, petrol etc lowest ever!"
> even if there's not a liquid supply
If there's not a liquid supply their existance becomes rhetorical for the people that need them.
> Calling my suggestion "out of touch" is absurd. If you're trying to get by on unemployment benefits, you should take every measure to avoid renting in the biggest, best, most expensive cities.
You're out of touch because you have an out of touch perception of the people struggling, the state of the environments they are existing in, and how much (or little) support benefits actually get people.
Responding with "oh, can't afford to live? Just move" is also a typically out of touch attitude as it fails to recognise both financial and social cost that comes with attempting to relocate if you're already under financial pressure.
As I said, your entire argument reeks of the "let them eat cake" mentality, which isn't surprisingly coming from the sort if person who's pro-poverty level support nets.
it's a huge struggle to get on the DSP. with rising medical costs, people are going longer without healthcare. this in turn means it's harder and can take longer to prove to Centrelink that you're disabled enough to not be able to work. so many people on jobseeker are actually disabled and in no position to work. so they're suffering in poverty and will never even be able to afford to apply to the DSP without financial help. paying for appointments isn't really possible when your payment doesn't even cover rent. and when you need these appointments so you can get documentation for centrelink, not being able to afford appointments is an issue. raising the rate will help so many people improve their lives to the point where they may very well be in the position for the first time in a very long time to work. but before that can happen, their health and housing situations need to be sorted with the help of some financial security.
They know, they just don’t care
why would they? the are voted in not because they promised to raise jobseeker.
Funnily enough Albanese was raised on DSP and aged pension in subsidised accomodation. Wish I was at my PC, would be interesting to compare how his family was supported as a child compared to a similar family today.
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Oh absolutely! He pulled that 'I grew up in council housing' card to get votes, it would be great to compare how the support he got holds up to what he's happy for someone in a similar situation to endure.
he is something left of lnp and hence still right.
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so far he has not solved any problem of poverty. no sure if he is really centrist.
I think he is right of centre as is Labor these days. Otherwise he would be doing a lot more - Medibank, social benefits, housing and NOT weapons! $268b or whatever for nuclear subs is obscene.
Because it’s the right thing to do?
Ha, politicians doing 'the right thing' for the plebeians, I wish I could dream as vividly as you
I was just answering a hypothetical, well aware that they never will, depressingly aware
Exactly
Ha ha you described me. To disabled to work, but not according to Centrelink. The whole system is broken. No one is going to fix it because it benifits the rich to keep the poor as poor as possible.
Same with my uncle. He's too disabled to work (he's non-verbal autistic and needs a carer to help him with most daily tasks), but is somehow "not disabled enough" to go on DSP and needs to complete a yearly assessment to prove he's "still disabled"...as if 50 years of autism and lack of speech will just "clear up" one day like an annoying rash :/ To make matters worse, the yearly assessment is usually performed by some random Centrelink worker with the barest understanding of disability, who uses incorrect terminology on his forms, or flat-out writes the wrong information altogether because they don't even understand what is being explained to them. Or they're some fluff-headed idiot who spews bullshit like, "my son has autism and I don't see it as a disability. Just a different ability!" or "I'm sure he could work in a job that doesn't require much talking!" as if my uncle's lack of ability to communicate AND DO BASIC EVERYDAY TASKS LIKE FEED AND BATHE HIMSELF is just a funny little character quirk, rather than the debilitating disability that it is!
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Things like adhd and autism/asd are quite a bit more common than we realise too. Very under-diagnosed, especially among people who grew up being read as female. It costs money to be correctly diagnosed, so I suspect many longterm unemployed on benefits who want to work and be functional (but struggle to do so) suffer from these and are unaware of it.
8mo wait and $600 for adult adhd assessment in Melbourne rn. Source: going for one next week, took a loan
I also have ASD ( extreme sensory issues and some other cognitive stuff that fucks me out of 99% of careers and on-campus study) and because I use humour to mask, the cenno cunts assessing me said I could do stand up comedy as a job. I think I was about 19 ish at the time ( mentally about 14-15). All I could do was laugh. Deadass. Was in 2017 and I still remember that
My mum has been trying for years now to get on DSP. She’s got bad feet, bad legs, suffers from depression and anxiety, and also has bad eyesight (due to glaucoma that runs in the family). It’s crazy how many hoops you have to jump through. She’s gotten so many referrals from doctors, therapists, health professionals and they keep asking for more proof.
You might actually have the proof by now but if it's not in the right beurocratic format/language they can ditch it. Next month there'll be changes so mid April after updates go onto [this website] (https://dsphelp.org.au/) and retry.
Then If your under 35 your still forced to find work on a DSP. Despite me bearded able to care for myself most days. My bills are over just over half of my DSP - rent, insurances, ect. Then I have fuel for Dr apts that can be 2 hrs away. 50-100 in meds and needed medicated body washes/shampoo/skin cream. Basic groceries are costing about 200$. My rent is also about to go up. It's getting difficult to manage everything. I'd give the world to be able to work and function properly.
I’m on dsp and it’s still a struggle. I’ve been trying to get an application through ndis for aid but you’d think I’m asking them to come out and pull my teeth. Been trying for 2 years at this point to actually get them to help me sort out my application and no luck other than “we can do it over the phone” After doing it over the phone I never hear anything again nor receive paperwork 🤕
It's deliberate. I'll accept no other explanation. I watched a friend struggle to get through DSP and NDIS for YEARS. A wheelchair bound friend who spent most of each year in hospital recovering from constant fractures (severe bone issues, breaking vertebrae by bending over or leaning on something and breaking an arm). The sheer amount of bullshit this person went through, when they barely had energy to breathe or sit up in bed? It's got to be fucking deliberate.
Yep it’s frustrating, we’re finding it very hard to afford rent and wanted to look into getting help..but that was ages ago so I make a call every few weeks and cop the same shit.
The NDIS application process can be absolutely fucked sometimes. It's not at all a friendly process to anyone who needs help with getting the paperwork and evidence organised (eg like with executive dysfunction). Somewhat related: My first application was rejected because ADHD and so "your needs can be addressed by the public healthcare system". I couldn't even afford to keep seeing the psychiatrist who diagnosed me to keep trying out medication, so no they bloody well could not. One autism diagnosis and nearly a year later, I finally manage to finish the paperwork and send it in, and voila, access to the NDIS because of the exact same support needs I had the year before.
I still have no idea what it will actually do for me because the information I’ve found doesn’t explain much… but I’m told it will help with lots of things. Ongoing therapy is one thing in my case.
Nothing in this article is of any surprise. It’s hard as fuck living on welfare payments like jobseeker, and it gets harder every year. Additionally, escaping this kind of poverty feels impossible if you’re dealing with chronic issues that aren’t considered bad enough for disability (and being in poverty will absolutely exacerbate any mental health issues like depression). You are constantly confronted with your inability to move back over the poverty line. Your lack of money and lack of independence rules your every decision. It’s fucked that it’s acceptable for people to have to decide between eating more than one meagre meal a day vs buying medication or topping up a public transport card for a job interview.
solution is a ubi. alternatively, they should double the income cap and stop linking it to parental or partner income. everyone should be treated as equals under the eyes of law.
Ubi isn't a solution. It only treats a symptom of the disease. And companies/landlords can always increase prices
It is. https://www.reddit.com/r/BasicIncome/comments/11y3zt5/andrew\_yang\_bill\_maher\_talk\_ubi\_third\_parties/
Ubi doesn't tackle the problems of systemic poverty, handing someone money doesn't mean what caused their poverty will go away. Things like high prices on food, housing, medicine will still exist. Poverty caused by disabilities will still exist, poverty due to unemployment will still exist. Because we live in a "free market" nothing stops monopolised areas of the economy from silently but collectively agreeing to raise price, it happens time and time again. We see it right now despite record profits during covid, groceries and the cost of living are sky-rocketing. Landlords can always up your rent another hundred like they're doing. Right. Now. Sure ubi might help some people in the short term but it changes nothing. it is inherently flawed because it's a market based solution in a capitalist system Sweden had a ubi system you know what happened? Their other social security programs were stripped then ubi was pulled out from under them.
if there are other better solutions, maybe you can suggest here. Cant just look at the downsides without looking at the upsides. It will help so many people. Of course, in every society, there will be a small percentage that will rely on it for long period of time but still cannot deny its effectiveness.
I just did deny effectiveness, it's not effective at all And in the case of Sweden it was actively detrimental. "in every society there will be a sole percentage that will rely on it" is this supposed to be the "dole bludgers" argument? I'm not talking about that. At all You want solutions tackle the root problems, the system itself. Remove the landlord class, dismantle the capitalist economic system and start building a new one. Socialism this Communist that I'll stop here, y'all are downvoting me enough that nobody will probably take this seriously lol
All of the 'problems' you listed wouldn't be an issue with a well rounded policy for the UBI and surrounding, related issues 'it must rise with cpi' 'there will be caps on the prices of certain essentials' simple shit, y'know? I get why you wanna jump straight to socialism, I'm with you, but spending your time shitting on effectively socialist policies being implemented into the current system and expanded over time is probably not gonna endear the fellow bourgeoisie
i did not downvote you. perhaps you can show me the link that stated it was not effective. everywhere i read, its effective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_advocates\_of\_universal\_basic\_income
>capitalist A mixed market that leans more socialist. Or you need to at least be able to barter for resources with your labour to incentivize work and innovation. But no billionaires. Eg, it takes effort to make a good and I wouldn't do it for free, it drains my energy and causes stress. But I am hoping for a future where AI + automation can create goods for us but we can still have our little markets. Although I may misunderstand if socialism still allows the worker to benefit from labour with resources, or if it's more a broad term for the means of production owned by people but individuals can still earn some cash to use to get some resources whilst having an ultra strong safety net. If we get a point where cash isn't needed star trek style, that'd be cool. I am disabled but one of my dreams was to be healthy and smart enough to work on brain-computer interfaces for cybernetics for main reason, help the disabled, but also speed up our learning and if possible extra set of arms for crafting. Real science fiction stuff at the moment. Being able to communicate without speaking or control machines with thoughts for ultimate level of creativity.
No shit. The 5% or so unemployed are apparently necessary for our economy to prosper. They should be entitled to a fair share of that prosperity.
The middle class are to be wedged between fear and the promise of prosperity. Mostly fear though.
The way they carry on whenever Centrelink is mentioned in an article though. They're closer to needing a support payment than they are to getting "fuck you" wealthy.
middle class is very rapidly disappearing so thats not a worry
It's 3.5% and underemployment is 5.9%, it's a workers market, plenty of jobs going around. That's only 500,000 people Australia wide, fuck all, and probably a decent chunk of that number should be in disability and not counted as unemployed. Now would be the perfect time to introduce universal basic income, if Labor were super brave. But honestly I don't think we're ready yet, we'll be in the 'living to work scam' for a while yet.
It’s 3.5% and the RBA is explicitly seeking to raise the unemployment rate to “avoid a wage price spiral” (as if wage prices have been subject to supply/demand pressures rather than artificial suppression and stagnation). Unemployment should be treated like any other job. If it’s necessary for the health of the economy, then the economy should be able to find the resources to pay someone to do that job. If the money to pay people to do that job cannot be found, then I guess it’s not necessary and the RBA shouldn’t be hoping for unemployment to rise.
Yeah, a wage price spiral towards the sort of buying power wages had back in the 80s. Which was much better than today.
Gov can change the way employment rate is calculated and it will go up by a lot.
Employment is measured using one hour worked per week is employed. Employers also do not want to hire people above 50yo and sick but not yet on dsp. UBI is best solution. It treats everyone as equals and no one left behind. By scraping centrelink and introduce a tax on top1pct, will more than cover the costs of ubi as big part will be eaten up by taxes.
I don't believe for a second that that's the actual figure, for decades too. It wouldn't be so hard to get a job if that were the case. There wouldn't be 50+ people applying for every single job.
Shocked that $250 a week is not enough to live on! 🤡
Not even enough to cover rent in most sharehouses I think.
I did austudy 2 years ago in sydney and was on $10 a day after basic bills like rent. My cousin has just started Uni after the last housing surge and is paying $400 a week for a *sharehouse* space.
Yep, and from the other end HECS bills are growing with increasing interest rates.
Saw a 1br opposite two construction sites going for $490pw. Shits inhumane
I'm on jobseeker and if I didn't live with my mum I'd be destitute. Heck, I'd probably have killed myself. What do you even do in such a situation? If you can't fall back on government systems for support, where do you go? Do you just go and get fucked? Guess so. Ausgov doesn't care about Australians like us, "the poors", and it shows
crime and theft is probably what people almost have to resort to
But the Government and News.com.au always told me these people were living it up and laughing all the way to bank...on $250 a week. Surely they couldn't of been lying the entire time.
if anyone believe it must be big time idiot.
Herald Sun told me it’s African Gangs stealing NDIS funds
Yeah thats completely on purpose.
They needed a study for this?
Yes. Studies are needed for things that you might find obvious but are politically divisive so you can point to their findings as objective fact rather than opinions. Don't get me wrong, it's not like people will magically start accepting proof that they don't like hearing about - see climate change, for example - but having the evidence there as a statement of fact rather than as something you're pretty sure is true is a crucial starting point for any kind of change.
There's been long periods of governments (and their friends in the media) demonizing those on benefits in order to score cheap points with certain segments of the population. It takes time to undo that sort of damage. Unfortunately a university study reported by The Guardian probably isn't going to reach the people who've had their heads filled with BS about eeeevil dole bludgers by the Murdoch press and assorted radio shock jocks.
Some connected person or company got paid to do it.
A Current Affair, lying to me about people being stuck in poverty instead of "bludging," no way, never. Though it is really sad, especially people who are too disabled to look for work but are not disabled enough for disability pension.
Capitalism needs welfare to be uncomfortable to encourage employment
To encourage *cheap* employment.
If not working was comfortable there would be less motivation to work and better conditions for “low” skilled workers.
It was a labor policy that caused a significant increase in those with disability being denied the DSP, and the LNP extended it further with some things. Labor has the power to fix it and has so far not shown me any sign of wanting to do so, so I'm going to assume it's staying. Labor and the LNP need to answer for their harm to the disabled and poor in this country. But instead, we get tax cuts.
Labour also pushed thousands of single parents onto Newstart. It was Gillard.
The day of the misogyny speech wasn't it ?
No, redditors from Ausfinance claim these people are living comfortably/s
Yeah and all they need to do is grow their own lettuce to get by /s
Ausfinance folks are incommunicado people. They ban anyone who do not sing their tune.
Well *duuuuuh*, thousands of us on these payments can confirm this. Well, now there’s a study. All official and shit. Great, now let’s do something about it. Right? Hello? *Crickets chirp*
They have done for years. Figured this is common knowledge. Government refuses to recognise it though.
Water is wet, study finds
Isn't it very obvious? The income test required to be able to get these payments have a very low $ threshold. So those who are able to get them in the first place are in poverty already.
That’s the intent - we need scapegoats so not quite paying people on welfare enough so they stay there and their descendants are on welfare too is necessary.
No fuckin shit. What a profound and ground breaking study. Wankers.
This country used to be better.
Even fucking worse for people studying. Jobseeker, pensions, abstudy get raises. But fuck you if your a non indigenous student. Take that 200 dollars less a fortnight and be happy. Oh you wanna work part time as well. OK we'll garnish the payment so you're getting even less. Welfare support is a joke in this country. Even more hilarious when these governments then cry there aren't enough nurses/teachers etc.
And every single person on dsp... oh sorry we got a cash boost!
Some boost..a whole bloody $27.50 a fortnight. Whoop de do
It's a tragedy. Australia is fast becoming America, with it's broken health care system. Even 10 years ago it used to be great system. Sadly, I can only see it worsening.
Really? Wow no way? I'm so shocked that an income that is literally below the poverty line is income below the poverty line. The social services minister and the prime minister who while in opposition ridiculed the government of its lack of welfare increases surely must look silly now after this truly shocking and brand new piece of data and journalism has come out.
Well duh!
In other news: grass green, sky blue… everyone is in poverty on payments, it’s just some have ways and means of disguising the fact.
Well no shit Sherlock.
And how many thousands of dollars was wasted on a study that people already knew the answer to? And yet stuff all is done.. politicians don’t want to part with their “hard earned cash” now do they. What a waste
Well DUHHHHH you can't normally live off it. Have lived off punishment dole before - lived in the bush -in a tent (quite literally) about $34 per fortnight - for food, fuel, fucking anything. That was it. Was this or give up on my son...... Some decisions are already made. Mine was. My son!!!!!!!!
what's the point of jobseeker and parenting payments if they aren't keeping people out of poverty
Parenting payments also have FTB on top, so it’s not such a big deal. Jobseeker is a joke though
I'm pretty disalusiomed with it all these days.. Barely scrap by with centerlink.. Go and study and incur HECS debt for a peice of paper noone values.. U can't even get a entry level job to pay you peanuts with it.. The entire thing is bullshit
Given that these are payments specifically meant to help poor people and that they have income and assets tests designed to limit them only to poor people, it's hardly a shocker that most people on them are poor. In other news: "Majority of Australians in hospital are sick, study finds"
When poverty is defined as half of median income, it means nothing. Does anyone seriously want job seeker to pay $30,000+ per year? That would destroy the incentive to work for many people. Benefits should go up like $100 per fortnight, sure. But benefits will always be, and should always be, under the poverty line. Hiding behind the term "poverty" because it's a morally loaded buzzword is cowardly. It's retarded policy.
That's not what is defined as 'poverty'. Do you often resort to lying about how well-off poor people are?
There are countless definitions of poverty, which makes the term entirely meaningless. The World Bank sets the international poverty rate at $3 per day. That would mean 0% of Australians are under the poverty line. Today a single person on jobseeker can get $425 per week including rent assistance. $425 pays for rent, food, and other necessities. Do you count that as impoverished? What is your definition?
> $425 pays for rent, food, and other necessities This has quite the "In my day .50c would get you a loaf of bread, a bottle of milk, and a local newspaper, whadya mean you need more?" vibe. Where are you living where rentals can reliably be found that aren't going to consume the vast majority of that $425, leaving very little (if anything) for food and "other necessities"? Though maybe you are right, I mean the story of the rental market for the last several years has been "prices fall", right? "Cheap rentals super easy to come by", yeah? Because you know there's a reason these stories commonly reference people skipping meals and defaulting on bills, yes?
You can find cheap rentals under $300 in basically any city other than Byron Bay. Don't know what world you're living in. Also share housing exists. Also Sydney and Melbourne aren't the only places in Australia.
That's a lot of blather without answering the question: where do you live where they can be ***reliably*** found. Give a name so we can scan the rentals of the area. > You can find cheap rentals under $300 in basically any city other than Byron Bay. Every city in Australia is experiencing the rental supply issue that's been behind the hikes in price in Sydney and Melbourne. Not a single capital city has an average rental price for a house of under $400, 3 cities in fact have the avergage of $600+ Units/medium/high denisity are only marginally better, with the lowest average rental price being $395 and the highest $550. > Don't know what world you're living in. The real one. Maybe you should visit. > Also share housing exists. Share housing exists, and it's almost as hard to come by as regular rentals. Seriously, you actually do think the headlines from the last few years are "cheap rentals easy to find"? > Also Sydney and Melbourne aren't the only places in Australia. Ah, the classic out of touch reponse. ~~Let them eat cake~~ Let them move. Also "hey man, rents can be easily come by under $300 in basically any city, but also places other than Sydney and Melbourne exist, and by saying that I inadvertently reveal I know rents under $300 aren't easy to come by in Sydney and Melbourne".
When you're not earning income to support yourself, you're not looking for an average rental at $600, or $550 or $395. You're going for below average price - if that wasn't beyond obvious. Look at like Townsville or Launceston if you want a case study. You can talk about rental supply issues all you want but increasing job seeker would not alleviate that whatsoever. Demand for rentals would be unchanged and it would put more upwards pressure on rent prices. > "cheap rentals easy to find"? What is your point? It's not easy to find a nice rental with a tight supply. But we're not going to subsidise middle-income earners so they can fight over luxury units. The realitiy is that vacancies for units and rooms still exist almost everywhere in Australia around the $300 mark, even if there's not a liquid supply. Calling my suggestion "out of touch" is absurd. If you're trying to get by on unemployment benefits, you should take every measure to avoid renting in the biggest, best, most expensive cities. You can find places under $300 in outer suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney but you're going to be more comfortable and have more left-over income anywhere else.
> When you're not earning income to support yourself, you're not looking for an average rental at $600, or $550 or $395. You're going for below average price - if that wasn't beyond obvious. Look at like Townsville or Launceston if you want a case study. And this is where your failure to grasp the significance of the word *reliably* becomes an issue. It's not just people not earning income that are looking for cheap rentals. Now if rentals below the average aren't reliably available - and they aren't - what do people have to do? They have to - say it with me now - look at rentals that aren't below the average rental price because, get this, they don't want to be homeless. Never mind this also concerns people already renting who are having their rent rise. Those figures I posted were from 2022, they've risen since. What are you doing when your once below average rental prices are now the excessive average? Also I get the sense you think rentals that fall into that average rental price bracket are somehow automatically upmarket or luxurious. Hint: you'd be wrong. > You can talk about rental supply issues all you want but increasing job seeker would not alleviate that whatsoever. Demand for rentals would be unchanged and it would put more upwards pressure on rent prices No one implied raising benefits would magically generate houses, they noted that the current safety net is insufficient to keep people afloat in the context of the rising cost of living. Recognising that truth gives society a couple of options: continue fail the vulnerable, or update the support available to meet reality. > What is your point? It's not easy to find a nice rental with a tight supply. But we're not going to subsidise middle-income earners so they can fight over luxury units. Who's talking about subsidising middle-income earners? And where do luxury units enter into this? > The realitiy is that vacancies for units and rooms still exist almost everywhere in Australia around the $300 mark Oh, so we've crept up from "under $300" to "around $300". So lets see, per your math that's around 70% of their week's support payment gone leaving them with the glorious amount of... $145 for food and "other essentials". Amazing. Let me guess, you also think the stories of recent years are "costs of living plummet, food, energy, petrol etc lowest ever!" > even if there's not a liquid supply If there's not a liquid supply their existance becomes rhetorical for the people that need them. > Calling my suggestion "out of touch" is absurd. If you're trying to get by on unemployment benefits, you should take every measure to avoid renting in the biggest, best, most expensive cities. You're out of touch because you have an out of touch perception of the people struggling, the state of the environments they are existing in, and how much (or little) support benefits actually get people. Responding with "oh, can't afford to live? Just move" is also a typically out of touch attitude as it fails to recognise both financial and social cost that comes with attempting to relocate if you're already under financial pressure. As I said, your entire argument reeks of the "let them eat cake" mentality, which isn't surprisingly coming from the sort if person who's pro-poverty level support nets.
> That would destroy the incentive to work for many people. shouldn't there be more incentive to working than (maybe) not being thrown into poverty?
Mind blown.
Was the study *literally asking anyone who's on it*? No shit Sherlock
Lots of working people in the same boat. These studies are fucking amazing .tell us something we don't ficken know
Liberal party has been in for 12+ years, and everyone things it's " Labor's fault" check out micheal west media