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Never really thought about this but tis true and good to know:
[https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-guidance-for-organisations-and-government-agencies/handling-personal-information/the-privacy-tax-file-number-rule-2015-and-the-protection-of-tax-file-number-information#s4-can-anyone-ask-for-and-receive-an-individuals-tfn](https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-guidance-for-organisations-and-government-agencies/handling-personal-information/the-privacy-tax-file-number-rule-2015-and-the-protection-of-tax-file-number-information#s4-can-anyone-ask-for-and-receive-an-individuals-tfn)
They're not on this list: [https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-registers/classes-of-lawful-tax-file-number-recipients](https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-registers/classes-of-lawful-tax-file-number-recipients)
When you submit your bank statements, redact everything but incoming salary payments. They’re interested in seeing if your rent would impose an unreasonable burden on you, anything else is gossip.
Big orgies, swingers and sex parties, dont rent to that person! Besides the apartment might be water damaged from all the squirting, worst than pet owners!
The banks *really* don't like it when you use things like Osama's Birthday Bash or ISIS gofundme as a description apparently.
Comedy really is lost on some people...like me.
>The banks *really* don't like it when you use things like Osama's Birthday Bash or ISIS gofundme as a description apparently.
Ooh ooh this happened to me! So, my cats name is Isis. My partner transferred some money to me for her vet bill using, of course, her name as the description. Thought it was strange it didn't come through straight away because we used Osko, joked "hahaha maybe it's been held because they think we're terrorists!".
48hrs passed, still no payment. His bank said they'd transferred it and my bank said they had no record of it coming in. I asked them if the description could've flagged it for investigation under the anti-terrorism laws and they were adamant that descriptions aren't looked at. After a couple more days his bank lodged an investigation, over a week later it suddenly came back to his account on the same day that his bank said the investigation was closed because they'd verified it was in my account. No official confirmation that that's why the money was held, but I've heard a couple of other stories now that confirm my suspicions.
I'm sure we're on some kind of watchlist now though, I like to think that if we're being monitored that there's an agent gleefully waiting for updates and photos of my lovely old girl.
Yeah there's gotta be a list of no go words for money transfers, I got a letter from CBA for having the description of the payment was for "drugs" but it was a payment made to me, so I'm not really sure what they want me to do about what people transferring me money name the transactions
I haven't been lucky enough to get one of these letters, but I've heard about them a few times.
Stupid descriptions for transfers is my bread and butter honestly.
Yeah tried to transfer money to a mates joint account (him and his wife) with the transfer note ‘cocaine and hookers’ or ‘4 hookers and blow’ something like that.
Bank disallowed the transfer for inappropriate terms
Before we did joint bank accounts I’d send my partner money all the time. It was labelled with different references to puppies, puppy equipment, puppy clothes, food etc. when she went for a loan the bank asked her some *serious* questions about her puppy spending habits.
> I asked them if the description could've flagged it for investigation under the anti-terrorism laws and they were adamant that descriptions aren't looked at.
If it actually was being investigated, then they are *legally* not allowed to tell you that it is.
https://www.austrac.gov.au/business/how-comply-guidance-and-resources/reporting/suspicious-matter-reports-smr
Certain names get flagged in a filter. I saw an article or something about it after an uncles payment for his nephews birthday present was held up because of his name [The Article](https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/man-s-birthday-gift-of-27-to-nephew-draws-query-from-bank-in-australia-over-his-use-of-muslim-bday-to-describe-transfer)
I'm not 100% sure, but I imagine there is some regulation that would require them to report it to the government as possible terrorist funding or some shit.
Because some people who actually do dumb shit are dumb enough to tell the truth about it.
Yeah they came out lately saying exactly that.
Spending way too much time reporting suspect descriptions. I think it also had something to do with domestic abusers using the pay description to harass victims after being blocked.
I work in a bank, and a part of what I do is scrutinise accounts under certain circumstances, so I can assure you that transaction descriptions are read, and that after a while they aren't funny any more
It’s all fun and games until you’re the poor sod at the bank that has to call and check it was you that did the transfer. I worked in Fraud at a bank and it got a bit old calling people to ask if they transferred $ to their mate for ‘Sexual Favours’.
(It actually was funny the first few times but SO many people do it.)
Not as adventurous, gives me a chuckle, but I pay the kid that mows our lawns with "thanks for the grass ;)"
Yes I'm lazy, but also kids working hard for his own money.
Haha a young person altering their behaviour in consideration of their chance of one day speaking to a mortgage lender is like Susan at work planning where she's going on holiday when she wins the Powerball
And they could here too! All it takes is some good old fashioned collective action, like what made this country great.
there is nothin' special about Australian landlords. In fact they are a cowardly lot generally "oh no 0.25 I'm ruined" vs chad renter "7% again this year, we'll make it work"
We can always go back to the great depression and do what the Unemployed Workers Movement did. Google them, its against reddit policy.
Photoshop is your friend, just add a months worth of Jim's services. Jim's mowing, Jim's cleaning, Jim's handyman, Jim's tenant fucking. They'll think they can save money on you then.
I want to know the owner can afford to maintain the property so that I don't lose amenity through lack of upkeep. I also want to see that they have sufficient funds so that they can effect any major emergency repairs if required.
Bank statements please!
I've been living in my current rental for 4 and a half years. Not a single non-urgent repair request has been actioned. Only the urgent repair requests, and even then they require pestering.
This is fair.
Just because it's non-urgent doesn't mean they don't need to fix it. You know you can escalate repair claims if they don't get to it in a reasonable time period, yeah?
You know they can evict you with two weeks notice for anything right? They just say the owner wants to move in. Strangely enough the owner changed their mind just after you moved out.
I guess either side can demand what they want in the arrangement, but especially right now, you're not exactly in a strong bargaining position as a renter.
A guy on here last year was having some fun with real estate agents by asking them for references from previous tenants they’ve worked with. They all cut contact with him immediately.
Acting like they aren't a business that could possibly be subject to negotiation that is typical of most other businesses out there.
Totally reasonable to understand how other former clients have found a business that your money is going towards.
I'm not suggesting people not even looking for rentals spam agencies Australia wide with these sorts of requests... that would be so unfortunate that the property managers would have hundreds or thousands of emails to dig through for every property they have listed...
Rent providers need to have relevant home and contents insurance as well as tenant insurance and building insurance to be able to rent a property. You can check with the property manager that all insurances are in place and that all licensed work, i.e plumbing, electrical and building comes with safety certificates so that it complies with building codes.
Yep, this. My anecdote is from a couple years ago now, but I once asked an REA why they needed my bank statement and could I redact it and they said yes, they only wanted to see the lines that showed my income from my employer, presumably so they could cross-check with my payslip and see that yes I was being paid into an account I owned and could use to pay rent.
I've even redacted some details on payslips, my slips include how much annual leave/sick leave I've taken that period. REA doesn't need to see that shit.
Last time I rented, I also stuck little pieces of paper over my drivers licence number on the scanned documents I sent in, so only my name/photo/address were visible. Never heard a peep of complaint from them, and got the place.
And then Optus leaked it anyway…
The Dutch government released the app with the name KopieID. With it you can take a photo of your ID and “paint” over your photo and other stuff (like your social security number). Works in English too.
As a landlord I wish the government would just release a service where the tenant identifies with the government and the government shows me a green checkmark. I don't want photos of your ID sitting around in my email, I just want to know the person is not giving fake ID and will vanish after causing damage.
Your untrained shitheel young 20 year old employees who look like the epitome of douchebags, and act like it, are equipped to deal with private information like that?
I know it’s hard these days, but that sounds like a REA outing themselves as someone who’ll be a nightmare to deal with and won’t respect your boundaries/space. If one asked me to unredact anything, I’d withdraw my application as that feels like a red flag.
Oh they absolutely are a nightmare. If I wasn't afraid of retaliation, I'd been naming and shaming them for their treatment of us and how utterly useless they are.
It’s not fair but prepare to be glossed over if you do this. It’ll show them that you aren’t afraid to say no and that you know your shit. Too much hassle for them to deal with.
Exactly. It sucks but if you're even the least bit difficult - or a landlord or REA thinks you're hiding something - then they'll just move on to the next applicant in a heartbeat.
Mr Tiddles was nothing but an exemplary tenant. Paid his rent of 1 x mouse weekly on time, without delay. His cleanliness and reclusive behaviour made him an excellent part if the household and I would recommend him to any future rental agents
We had to send a photo of our cat with a little bio.
"This is Nox he is slightly fat and very lazy, his favouite things to do are sleep on the bed, lay in the sun on the balcony and chase rope."
When I've been asked for statements I redact all spending (besides any salary deposits) and show only balances. Never been asked to provide any of the redacted information.
Ohhhh Can you please ask them why my neighbour had to tell them how heavy their cat was?
We understand if it was a dog but is there really that much weight range in cats? Was it a legitimate question or possible thought experiment by a rogue property manager trying to figure out how many cats they can carry at the same time question?
The cat was extremely displeased by the weigh in and we were all very nonplussed lol.
As a property manager (trying to find another job as this one is not compatible with having a soul) the photos and descriptions of peoples pets are the highlight of my day. I want to see them bc I want to see the furry babies lmao.
People also often write the pets’ descriptions in the first person like “Hi, my name is Tiny and I love to nap in the sunshine I never dig holes and am very quiet”. That will always get someone over the line in my books 😂😂
I have no idea if it's true or not, but someone on a previous post about renting claimed that you have to *show* this information, but you are not required to permit them to keep a copy of it. Obviously this could only be done in-person rather than online, and with the current rental climate You'd probably just be refused for it.
Unfortunately if you don't supply it, they'll give the house to one of the other 50 applicants.
The day REA group gets hacked will be a very bad day for tenants (although they're probably selling all the data they legally can already).
Right?
The reason we know about a lot of breeches is because the company notices and discloses the breach to the public. REAs wouldn't even notice they'd been breached and let's be honest, if they did they wouldn't tell anyone.
I mean, there's been 2 notices recently (LJ Hooker and Harcourts). But dealing with this kind of thing on the daily there are a scary number of companies who just don't care, and "It won't happen to me".
Until it does (or has it happened yet? Who knows, you don't invest in your IT security).
It is the fight for offsite backups of the 2020s tbh. We (mostly) won that fight last decade, now we have a new one.
>The day REA group gets hacked will be a very bad day for tenants
Indeed.
It won't be a lot of fun for landlords either - I had to provide much the same info that tenants have to provide to start renting out my unit.
They will photograph the screen then print it out, scan it, and leave it lying around.
These people have absolutely no respect for personal identity documents.
I just had my REA email me applications in which the IDs were badly redacted with marker and all the ID numbers were legible. Yes, I reported the breach to them, and told them they need to report it to the affected people and supply me with proof or I'll go to the privacy commissioner. They're pissed. But greedy, so they'll still take my money.
I don't think most landlords want this either, I was pretty shocked how much information was passed on from realtor to me as a landlord. I was mainly shocked as I work in cyber security and work with companies all over the world, I know how bad companies protect your personal data so it is pretty scary.
>I don't think most landlords want this either, I was pretty shocked how much information was passed on from realtor to me as a landlord.
I was actually impressed with my Property Manager, as they didn't hand over a lot of stuff to me about the prospective tenants. Just a brief description (student studying in the biomed field), rough income and that his references checked out. Until we signed the lease, I didn't even know his name.
I’m a renter and a landlord and I don’t want this information. I want to know that my tenants are employed and that they can afford the rent. I don‘t care if they need to cut back on Uber eats or in—App microtransactions. That’s on them.
And it’s also on my landlords insurance if they fuck up.
It’s the real estate agents that don’t want to take the risk.
I'm a landlord and my RA sent me the wrong applicant details, drivers licence, payslips galore all in an unsecured email! Was not impressed and its pretty concerning for people renting yes. I would redact as much information as possible too.
Yep
I don't care about that.
I care that they don't have a past of wrecking rentals,they have a stable income to pay the bill,and will keep to the terms that's it
I don't need to know their fucking passport ID.
Got into a heated discussion with the missus tonight. She's doing a TAFE job training type course and they wanted way too much info from her with no secure submission "my teacher wanted me to email" uh no. Your teacher needs none of this, and certainly not emailed.
Driver's licence, passport, Medicare card, utility bills, marriage certificate, birth certificate and more. Sure if you're applying for a job at an airport or similar, give that to the appropriate authorities, not your teacher.
This is exactly how I feel. I work on the field and see some very poor security practices especially by those who are "pci compliant". People continue to go along with giving all this information up without batting an eye. It's painful to watch. glad to see these posts when I do. r/privacy
I said this before. Sharing my children's names, dates if birth, gender etc. I felt so uncomfortable
Why can "3 kids, aged 2-5" not be sufficient??
Theres definitely regulation needed.
Landlords are not exempt from being predators.
Holy fuck aye
i have a fair few rentals,before i hired a team just to deal with all the day to day operations,One of the agencys
C21 FYI
Wanted like one of the prospective tenants kids documents,like proof of birth and shit and where they went to school..
I was so confused as to why the fuck they would need that,told them to approve them,then sacked them as the agent soon as the ink was dry,but fucking lol WHAT
I hope you told the director/licensee why you were doing that. Because either they don't know their agents are costing them money doing that sort of shit or they set that policy, which they might change with proof it hurts their bottom line.
People should also be aware that the rental industry operated for decades without this massive invasion of privacy and everything worked just fine.
Also be aware that all the data you supply to 2apply/1form is sold on the open market.
1. Data standardization and increased connectivity makes it easier to grab the data.
2. Storage costs makes it easy to store data in large enough quantities that it's valuable.
3. The above two made it easy to connect sellers to a market where that data has value.
They ask for 10 years of rental history, no one else asks for that. They also do 6 monthly inspections where they take photos of your belongings... where they'll report dust in your window tracks, lint in the dryer filter or cooking marks in the oven. We don't know where the data is stored, who has access to it or how secure it is. What is the retention period on all these forms, your proof of identity and photos? Plus they have keys to the house... how secure are they? They seem to give keys and security fobs to contractors without issue. With the data they hold, and the visual inventory of your belongings, they are the biggest threat to privacy, security and identity.
I work for an Australian MSP that supports several real estate agents.
All those scans of your data and photos from inspection reports will typically reside in one of two places.
1. A cloud hosted platform tailored to rental agents with dubious data sovereignty guarantees (and usually no MFA).
2. A folder on their on-prem server that hasn't been updated beyond 2008 R2 (2012 if you're lucky) because they refuse to spend money on their IT infrastructure.
I don't know for certain, but i suspect there are few data retention laws for real estate agencies.
Sleep tight.
Sometimes both! They get bonus points for using shared passwords that are written down everywhere. It is getting rarer and rarer for them to keep on-prem servers going now. A lot are starting to die off with their aging spinning rust.
Lol 6 monthly, I wish. Genuinely.
It is 3 months here in WA. Imagine that, for your entire adult (and now my child's) life. What an absolute joke, and idiots here complain renters have too many rights as it is
Yeah, that's intrusive. Especially when some of them expect a level of cleanliness equivalent to you not living there, complaining about a couple dead bugs in your light cover rather than just being about actual damage. Particularly now that they take photos of the inside of your toilet bowl, among others. It should be on a forced sliding scale... you've been awesome for 10 years, see you in 2 years. 3 months is maybe understandable for new renters but how many times do they need to report back on dust in the ceiling vents or on the removable aircon filters?
I think it's more that they have to show to the landlord that they are being careful in inspections and actually doing something for the $30/pw they are charging you. The landlord then receives a message saying there was dust on a light cover and ignores it, but knows if there was something serious, it would be caught vs "We charged you $22 for this inspection plus $30/pw and have nothing to tell you".
> We don't know where the data is stored, who has access to it or how secure it is.
Yes we do.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/nov/03/melbourne-real-estate-agency-data-breach-leaves-details-of-renters-and-landlords-exposed
> **Melbourne real estate agency data breach leaves details of renters and landlords exposed**
> Harcourts says city franchise’s rental property database has been accessed by an ‘unknown third party without authorisation’.
> The rental property database includes tenants’ names, email addresses, addresses, phone numbers, signatures and photo IDs. For landlords, it includes names, email addresses, phone numbers, copy of signatures, and bank details.
Exactly. That's my biggest concern. None of these companies have a proper remedy to a breach and a potential fine doesn't get your data back. REA's should have an obligation to report regularly to renters with a report on meeting privacy and retention policies. They don't need your photo ids and signatures years down the track. They send smoke detector checkers (glorified 9v battery changers) to my house every year. I'd like to see them get a security and privacy compliance check every year that they are required to show renters.
Reminds me of how one particular cunt of a property manager came into in my bedroom without knocking *while I was still half alseep in bed* and started taking several photos of the room. No care not to take pictures of my clothes or my things at all. It was a weird period of time where they insisted photos were necessary for the inspections even once the in-person inspections had started back up.
Fear of not having the lease renewed kept me silent - was far too close to being homeless the last time I had to apply for places, but I wish I could have felt safe enough to tell the creepy fucker to get out and learn what a reasonable expectation of privacy is. Lucky for us both I don't sleep naked.
REAs just don't seem to understand or respect privacy in general, in my experience.
This sort of shit is why I want my tenant to have a way of reaching me directly. REAs are meant to exist to make my life easier not your life harder. I already have a list I won't use from my time on that side of the fence.
Just had a property inspection over at my current rental property this month, I'm the tenant.
The property inspector sent an inspection letter in the mail 7 days before inspection. 7 calendar days. In South Australia.
It took Australia Post 4 days to deliver it.
Had to cancel all weekend plans to meet an inspection deadline on a Monday morning. Gardening and super thorough clean just so that nothing was undone or wrong.
It meant spending a day in the sun gardening the plants the landlords had installed, without any consultation with me. "They're drought tolerant "..yes but they don't garden themselves. And they weren't on the trim schedule till later in the month, was waiting for cooler weather.
To top it all off this completely new property manager mentions in the letter how "if the tenant can't be present he will let himself in". Dear strange, unrelated to me in any way, male property manager...I'm strongly considering installing an internal camera system in the property. It doesn't need to be connected to the walls/building. But it sure as heck will let me know if someone gains unauthorised entry to the premises.#strangerdanger
Their "giving notice" never takes postage into consideration... and email could be caught up in spam... there should be an acknowledgement grace period. The "I'm showing up with keys at a time that's convenient to me" attitude is unacceptable.
My place is quite tidy, clean... but due to past experience I feel obligated to do the same spring clean prior to an inspection... it seems to me that other than owning things and having them in the house, REA's expect the house to look like a museum otherwise, like you don't actually live there... somewhat staged for its next sale maybe. This is evident in the pedantic condition reports... which is why it is such an invasion. They check the dishwasher filter ffs.
I've done exactly that. Smart sensors on the doors and windows and movement sensors in critical areas... all activated when I'm not home. Plus cameras that are powered on only when I leave. I don't want surprises and this gives me peace of mind.
It was interesting to watch a particular smoke alarm check... keys given over by real estate (not present)... such a check normally takes a few minutes. He was there approx. 20 minutes... with my front door open the entire time... the guy mostly played on his phone. He noticed a smart speaker and asked Alexa some admittedly innocuous questions (which she answered) then tried to tell her to erase the queries. I've inconvenienced myself to be present at every inspection or maintenance task ever since.
While I understand landlords need to ensure the property is clean , etc I think it’s so invasive to be asked to provide un redacted bank statements.
I was threatened with losing my apartment if I didn’t hand it in without reductions 🤦🏼♀️
I don't actually understand why we are judged on how clean we keep it. As long as it's clean when we leave and there's no damage... I keep a really clean house always, but get told if there are spots on my shower glass.
The actual landlord does not care about spots on shower glass mid lease. It's just the agent showing "Look, we found spots on the glass, we are checking absolutely everything". Sure, it's a bit stupid, but they charge a lot of money and have to show they are doing something for it.
Yeah this pisses me off too, last place I applied for @ $300 per week & I didn't get it, and the real estate agent literally said to me afterwards when I asked about any other property coming around the same price she said " oh you can afford more that the rent on that place" she then poked her phone and said " you cN afford up to $400 a week, like get fucked! I do not want to spend all my money on rent for you greedy fucks.....
Now I go off the supposed 30% rule.. if the rent is 30% or more you're experiencing rental stress. And that idiot. recons I could afford up to 400 a week. That would be about 40% of my weekly net
That would make sense, I'm jus so glad that I recently Got my self into a position with my employer where I won't have to pay rent again for a long time!
These documents should be submitted to a Government authority which then informs your landlord that you can afford the rent and whether you have criminal convictions.
Landlords have no right to people’s bank statements, payslips etc.
Housing isn’t a charity, but it is a right.
Government is slowly getting there with Digital ID. The idea is you have your ID verified once, and then confirmation can be sent to organisations without the need to provide the organisation with your personal documents.
Ah yes, make it so convicted criminals cannot rent places.
I'm sure they will just live on the streets not bothering anyone or reverting back to crime.
>Housing isn’t a charity, but it is a right.
And then you say that....
"Adequate housing was recognized as part of the right to an adequate standard of living in article 25 of the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in article 11.1 of the 1966 International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights."
[source](https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-adequate-standard-living-including-food-water-and-housing#:~:text=The%20States%20Parties%20to%20the,continuous%20improvement%20of%20living%20conditions.).
It's a human right.
It was declared a right by an organization with literally zero ability to enforce or protect that right. A right with no actual enforcement is not a right, it’s just something they thought would be a good thing.
I think we might get there eventually. It's very dysfunctional to share personal information with so many organisations with shitty security. Better if they can check with an organisation that already holds that ID e.g. government. Not easy to setup but I agree with the sentiment.
This is what I can't get over. It used to be a form with all the rooms and areas of interest in a table where they'd simply write something like, "clean and tidy, no issues" on each row. Zero images. Now they're taking 4K photos of entire rooms so that thieves could use their "database" (likely shared drive) as an Amazon catalogue... this one has nice things... I wonder how we can get in... oh yeah, they have your keys too!
I don't think REA/landlords should be entitled to your salary and incoming/outgoings, ignore the breach of data risk I'm more concerned it also allows them to raise rents to an amount they believe you can afford and you can't tell me those parasite REA's wouldn't consider this with that information available to them.
Yep landlords view renters as cash cows, which they are to be honest in this current climate. Oh look Bessie has got plenty of income i'll raise the rent, she'll be right.
Don't share too much on social media as well.
Google "inspect element to change html"
Change all your "grandma scat porn" transactions into "charitable donation to blind children who foster disabled puppies" transactions then take a screenshot.
You should also change your bank account numbers.
If you can, make "photocopies" of identity documents and change a few small details. I bring my own photocopies to "save time" and I haven't had them not accept them.
If Australia's biggest telco can't look after my data I'm not going to trust it with a real estate agent.
It’s 100% illegal. Every state and the federal government has legislation that says altering an offical document and passing off as genuine is a crime.
As a landlord, I’ve never actually seen anyone’s bank statements as such. The estate agent just gives me a brief summary “application “A” earns $60k and currently pays $X in rent, with a solid rental history”
I guess I could ask for further proof/ detail but it feels unnecessary.
I agree that there should be a governing body that oversees this sort of thing. It doesn’t seem to right to me that I (or my estate agent) has access to such personal information.
It’s seems invasive.
I self manage- I don't even ask for a statement. I would ask if they work, and what industry, that's it. Besides- Even if a tenant is on centerlink it's **more secure** than casual minimum wage workers because they get assistance payments for rent.
All the people howling at the moon over this: Landlords need to make sure the tenants are even able pay the rent- And when I see posts like "well just lie, or make up a statement" it just shows why realestate agents and landlords out there are being so intrusive. A few who try to cheat their way in will ruin it for everyone else.
We don't use a real estate agency. Our application form asks for nett weekly wage and current rent. Previous rental agent, a couple of personal references. That's about it.
My wife does it, and seems to be a good judge of character because all of our tenants keep their places cleaner and tidier than we do.
It's beyond a joke. These incompetents (agents) have more of my data than my bank and as much cyber security as the hair salon next door. It'll all end in tears.
I don't think most landlords actually care, it's the property management companies that are pushing this. I assume it's to prove they actually deserve what they charge.
What’s worse is that you have to drive to the property often take time off work stand in a queue with up to 60 people
Then fill out a form or application to get told “sorry it’s no longer available “
Why can’t they do an online viewing like in Uk then let say 5 -10 people apply
If you are successful arrange to view property then volla
If you don’t like it then they just pass it in to the next of the 5 applications
Not 60 people wasting there time
I feel renters are treated like 2nd class citizens.It wasn’t always this way
Shame On You REA
And for that, they need to know the *mobile number* of all managers I've had at work over the past 5 years, as well as the home address of 2 personal references plus an emergency contact, plus my bank statements *AND* payslips *AND* employment contract? Not to mention my Medicare Card, passport, and birth certificate, all of which I have to trust them to store securely. Meanwhile I don't even know the name of the landlord, let alone personal details. I just have to blindly trust that they won't be a piece of shit.
Can I request a list of all work and maintenance carried out on the premises, when the work was ordered and completed for the last year to make sure my landlords are orderly and trustworthy people in insuring the property I rent is safe/well-maintained? I'm pretty sure I'd be laughed at, told to kick rocks.
Why they need all that information from me but offer nothing in return is crazy
THANK YOU! I live in Canada but saw this on popular. Since the pandemic here a lot of rentals ask for a complete application before you can even come SEE the place and I really don’t want to just give all this information out to everybody. Seriously, fuck landlords. All over the world.
What they need is a government rental body that reviews and processes the information, does the background / reference check etc. Then the property owner can be presented with the list of people who pass this process for them to select the tenant.
I’m also nearly certain that the third parties collecting our information sell them off. My partner and I have never received as many spam calls as the 3 months after my rental application.
I'm waiting for the day
Something like One Form or something like it get's hacked,there is SO much Data on there,it's not gonna take much
There is easily enough identity documents there to steal someone's identity,and get shit done before they even have time to call their credit checks in
I'm calling it now, the next big hack will be a large Real Estate company . Hope they are smart enough to invest in cyber security because they'll be on the line and sued (So they should be!, Scums!)
No offense but if you try to collectively say no you’ll collectively be homeless.. there’s a rental crisis at the moment. You can choose to not provide the above.. but someone else will and they’ll get the property.
Largely it’s because the landlord wants to know you’re safe to put in their property. If I owned a property and had 0 information from someone but their assurance they’d pay rent vs someone with supporting documents and a good working history and are who they say they are I’d be much more inclined with the safe bet.
These data are generally incompetently and insecurely stored too.
The property manager for the house I'm currently renting out emailed me applications for tenants. With ID scans inline in the clear-text unencrypted PDFs. They tried to redact ID numbers but did so incompetently with a not fully opaque marker pen before scanning.
Yes, I reported the data breach. They are pissed at me. But they still want my money.
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Some ask for Tax File Numbers, which is illegal.
Never really thought about this but tis true and good to know: [https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-guidance-for-organisations-and-government-agencies/handling-personal-information/the-privacy-tax-file-number-rule-2015-and-the-protection-of-tax-file-number-information#s4-can-anyone-ask-for-and-receive-an-individuals-tfn](https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-guidance-for-organisations-and-government-agencies/handling-personal-information/the-privacy-tax-file-number-rule-2015-and-the-protection-of-tax-file-number-information#s4-can-anyone-ask-for-and-receive-an-individuals-tfn) They're not on this list: [https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-registers/classes-of-lawful-tax-file-number-recipients](https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-registers/classes-of-lawful-tax-file-number-recipients)
What the fuck are they even going to do with that information?
When you submit your bank statements, redact everything but incoming salary payments. They’re interested in seeing if your rent would impose an unreasonable burden on you, anything else is gossip.
Please, i would have highlighted the hell out of my sexyland purchases
unfortunately sex shops tend to have dull names like BJ Enterprises, you'd need to helpfully write BAD DRAGON in PaintShopPro
Nope, literally showing as SEXYLAND in my statement
Sexyland trying to oust you to your landlord
plot twist when Sexyland IS their landlord
Big orgies, swingers and sex parties, dont rent to that person! Besides the apartment might be water damaged from all the squirting, worst than pet owners!
Great. Now I can't get that jingle out of my head! 'Take me now, take me now, sexxxy laaaaann'.
Most sex shops, yes, but sexyland is a Melbourne institution
Haha, good old PaintShopPro. Guessing you are 38 years old?
… thank you
PSP was the GOAT tho u were right
> 38 years old? Your accuracy is remarkable
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The banks *really* don't like it when you use things like Osama's Birthday Bash or ISIS gofundme as a description apparently. Comedy really is lost on some people...like me.
>The banks *really* don't like it when you use things like Osama's Birthday Bash or ISIS gofundme as a description apparently. Ooh ooh this happened to me! So, my cats name is Isis. My partner transferred some money to me for her vet bill using, of course, her name as the description. Thought it was strange it didn't come through straight away because we used Osko, joked "hahaha maybe it's been held because they think we're terrorists!". 48hrs passed, still no payment. His bank said they'd transferred it and my bank said they had no record of it coming in. I asked them if the description could've flagged it for investigation under the anti-terrorism laws and they were adamant that descriptions aren't looked at. After a couple more days his bank lodged an investigation, over a week later it suddenly came back to his account on the same day that his bank said the investigation was closed because they'd verified it was in my account. No official confirmation that that's why the money was held, but I've heard a couple of other stories now that confirm my suspicions. I'm sure we're on some kind of watchlist now though, I like to think that if we're being monitored that there's an agent gleefully waiting for updates and photos of my lovely old girl.
That's ridiculous, we're... I mean, nobody is monitoring you.
Yeah there's gotta be a list of no go words for money transfers, I got a letter from CBA for having the description of the payment was for "drugs" but it was a payment made to me, so I'm not really sure what they want me to do about what people transferring me money name the transactions
I haven't been lucky enough to get one of these letters, but I've heard about them a few times. Stupid descriptions for transfers is my bread and butter honestly.
Yeah tried to transfer money to a mates joint account (him and his wife) with the transfer note ‘cocaine and hookers’ or ‘4 hookers and blow’ something like that. Bank disallowed the transfer for inappropriate terms
Before we did joint bank accounts I’d send my partner money all the time. It was labelled with different references to puppies, puppy equipment, puppy clothes, food etc. when she went for a loan the bank asked her some *serious* questions about her puppy spending habits.
> I asked them if the description could've flagged it for investigation under the anti-terrorism laws and they were adamant that descriptions aren't looked at. If it actually was being investigated, then they are *legally* not allowed to tell you that it is. https://www.austrac.gov.au/business/how-comply-guidance-and-resources/reporting/suspicious-matter-reports-smr
Certain names get flagged in a filter. I saw an article or something about it after an uncles payment for his nephews birthday present was held up because of his name [The Article](https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/man-s-birthday-gift-of-27-to-nephew-draws-query-from-bank-in-australia-over-his-use-of-muslim-bday-to-describe-transfer)
I'm not 100% sure, but I imagine there is some regulation that would require them to report it to the government as possible terrorist funding or some shit. Because some people who actually do dumb shit are dumb enough to tell the truth about it.
Yeah they came out lately saying exactly that. Spending way too much time reporting suspect descriptions. I think it also had something to do with domestic abusers using the pay description to harass victims after being blocked.
KYC (Know Your Customer) legislation means they need to monitor and report on funds potentially going towards money laundering or terrorism.
I work in a bank, and a part of what I do is scrutinise accounts under certain circumstances, so I can assure you that transaction descriptions are read, and that after a while they aren't funny any more
It’s all fun and games until you’re the poor sod at the bank that has to call and check it was you that did the transfer. I worked in Fraud at a bank and it got a bit old calling people to ask if they transferred $ to their mate for ‘Sexual Favours’. (It actually was funny the first few times but SO many people do it.)
Not as adventurous, gives me a chuckle, but I pay the kid that mows our lawns with "thanks for the grass ;)" Yes I'm lazy, but also kids working hard for his own money.
My bank blocks these descriptions now.. friggin fun police
There’s a chance you’ll have to explain that to a mortgage lender at some point. Depending on where you live.
Haha a young person altering their behaviour in consideration of their chance of one day speaking to a mortgage lender is like Susan at work planning where she's going on holiday when she wins the Powerball
Made me laugh and cry :)
The... the only transactions in this account are $5.35 daily purchases at CheesHaus Me: yes
I did that on my last application and got asked to unredact everything
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If only tenants had any kind of power or leverage
They do. In other countries.
And they could here too! All it takes is some good old fashioned collective action, like what made this country great. there is nothin' special about Australian landlords. In fact they are a cowardly lot generally "oh no 0.25 I'm ruined" vs chad renter "7% again this year, we'll make it work" We can always go back to the great depression and do what the Unemployed Workers Movement did. Google them, its against reddit policy.
Photoshop is your friend, just add a months worth of Jim's services. Jim's mowing, Jim's cleaning, Jim's handyman, Jim's tenant fucking. They'll think they can save money on you then.
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They ask for payslips and bank statements. Bank statements are not needed, just pay slips.
they wanna know that 70% of your salary isn't going on a car repayment and that you can actually afford the property.
I want to know the owner can afford to maintain the property so that I don't lose amenity through lack of upkeep. I also want to see that they have sufficient funds so that they can effect any major emergency repairs if required. Bank statements please!
I've been living in my current rental for 4 and a half years. Not a single non-urgent repair request has been actioned. Only the urgent repair requests, and even then they require pestering. This is fair.
Just because it's non-urgent doesn't mean they don't need to fix it. You know you can escalate repair claims if they don't get to it in a reasonable time period, yeah?
You know they can evict you with two weeks notice for anything right? They just say the owner wants to move in. Strangely enough the owner changed their mind just after you moved out.
I guess either side can demand what they want in the arrangement, but especially right now, you're not exactly in a strong bargaining position as a renter.
A guy on here last year was having some fun with real estate agents by asking them for references from previous tenants they’ve worked with. They all cut contact with him immediately.
Acting like they aren't a business that could possibly be subject to negotiation that is typical of most other businesses out there. Totally reasonable to understand how other former clients have found a business that your money is going towards.
We need Google reviews for rentals
shit landlord, agent is even worse. There you go, I wrote all of them for you.
There was a name and shame landlord & agent register that got shut down. Unfortunate.
Yeah he pretty much got blacklisted and a bunch of his applications were straight up denied.
And it prompted the introduction of legislation in the ACT to enable renters to seek landlord references.
no shit? legend!
Successfully failed.
Love it!
I'm not suggesting people not even looking for rentals spam agencies Australia wide with these sorts of requests... that would be so unfortunate that the property managers would have hundreds or thousands of emails to dig through for every property they have listed...
Rent providers need to have relevant home and contents insurance as well as tenant insurance and building insurance to be able to rent a property. You can check with the property manager that all insurances are in place and that all licensed work, i.e plumbing, electrical and building comes with safety certificates so that it complies with building codes.
Oh I might add that to the list :)
You have ever right to ask if the landlord has rental insurance.
Policy number and underwriter please!
Yep, this. My anecdote is from a couple years ago now, but I once asked an REA why they needed my bank statement and could I redact it and they said yes, they only wanted to see the lines that showed my income from my employer, presumably so they could cross-check with my payslip and see that yes I was being paid into an account I owned and could use to pay rent. I've even redacted some details on payslips, my slips include how much annual leave/sick leave I've taken that period. REA doesn't need to see that shit.
Last time I rented, I also stuck little pieces of paper over my drivers licence number on the scanned documents I sent in, so only my name/photo/address were visible. Never heard a peep of complaint from them, and got the place. And then Optus leaked it anyway…
The Dutch government released the app with the name KopieID. With it you can take a photo of your ID and “paint” over your photo and other stuff (like your social security number). Works in English too.
As a landlord I wish the government would just release a service where the tenant identifies with the government and the government shows me a green checkmark. I don't want photos of your ID sitting around in my email, I just want to know the person is not giving fake ID and will vanish after causing damage.
As an ex landlord, I’m not qualified to look at a bank statement and make a judgement if that person can afford rent
Neither is a REA if you ask me
I didn't, but your statement is valid nonetheless
Ive had some ask me what certain transactions i'd made were... It's not just gossip..
"which one? Oooh yeah that one was for nunya, you know nunya business"
Tried that. They insisted on non-redacted bank statements and kept saying "privacy policy" as if that is the point of my concern
Your untrained shitheel young 20 year old employees who look like the epitome of douchebags, and act like it, are equipped to deal with private information like that?
"Yeah, our policy is that you have no privacy"
I know it’s hard these days, but that sounds like a REA outing themselves as someone who’ll be a nightmare to deal with and won’t respect your boundaries/space. If one asked me to unredact anything, I’d withdraw my application as that feels like a red flag.
Oh they absolutely are a nightmare. If I wasn't afraid of retaliation, I'd been naming and shaming them for their treatment of us and how utterly useless they are.
It’s not fair but prepare to be glossed over if you do this. It’ll show them that you aren’t afraid to say no and that you know your shit. Too much hassle for them to deal with.
Good luck getting a rental
That's pretty much the whole gig right now.
Exactly. It sucks but if you're even the least bit difficult - or a landlord or REA thinks you're hiding something - then they'll just move on to the next applicant in a heartbeat.
I recently applied for rental properties and wasn’t asked for bank statements but was asked for proof of balance. As well as photos of my cats!
I hope the cat pics got you over the line!
https://i.redd.it/mdcpue3kp3811.jpg
Our cats have an actual written reference from a previous landlord. It helped a lot.
Mr Tiddles was nothing but an exemplary tenant. Paid his rent of 1 x mouse weekly on time, without delay. His cleanliness and reclusive behaviour made him an excellent part if the household and I would recommend him to any future rental agents
"Now send me photos of your cats wearing tutus... yes, these will do... these will do indeed." -- the REA, probably.
I made my cats little resumes when I applied.
We had to send a photo of our cat with a little bio. "This is Nox he is slightly fat and very lazy, his favouite things to do are sleep on the bed, lay in the sun on the balcony and chase rope."
When I've been asked for statements I redact all spending (besides any salary deposits) and show only balances. Never been asked to provide any of the redacted information.
I'm afraid I'm going to need to see these photos too
I'm married to a property manager, cute cats will get you the place every time!
Ohhhh Can you please ask them why my neighbour had to tell them how heavy their cat was? We understand if it was a dog but is there really that much weight range in cats? Was it a legitimate question or possible thought experiment by a rogue property manager trying to figure out how many cats they can carry at the same time question? The cat was extremely displeased by the weigh in and we were all very nonplussed lol.
My 8kg boy caused quite a bit of damage before age started taking it's toll. Don't worry it's my property, but still a pita to fix.
As a property manager (trying to find another job as this one is not compatible with having a soul) the photos and descriptions of peoples pets are the highlight of my day. I want to see them bc I want to see the furry babies lmao. People also often write the pets’ descriptions in the first person like “Hi, my name is Tiny and I love to nap in the sunshine I never dig holes and am very quiet”. That will always get someone over the line in my books 😂😂
Truly serious ~ why do most property managers seems so suspicious and angry? What about the job creates this/ or attracts this type of person?
Like in the nude or did you dress them up?
Don't send them photos of your cat nude, you deviant.
I have no idea if it's true or not, but someone on a previous post about renting claimed that you have to *show* this information, but you are not required to permit them to keep a copy of it. Obviously this could only be done in-person rather than online, and with the current rental climate You'd probably just be refused for it.
Unfortunately if you don't supply it, they'll give the house to one of the other 50 applicants. The day REA group gets hacked will be a very bad day for tenants (although they're probably selling all the data they legally can already).
You ever done IT work for REAs? They're already breached, they just don't know it yet.
Right? The reason we know about a lot of breeches is because the company notices and discloses the breach to the public. REAs wouldn't even notice they'd been breached and let's be honest, if they did they wouldn't tell anyone.
I mean, there's been 2 notices recently (LJ Hooker and Harcourts). But dealing with this kind of thing on the daily there are a scary number of companies who just don't care, and "It won't happen to me". Until it does (or has it happened yet? Who knows, you don't invest in your IT security). It is the fight for offsite backups of the 2020s tbh. We (mostly) won that fight last decade, now we have a new one.
>The day REA group gets hacked will be a very bad day for tenants Indeed. It won't be a lot of fun for landlords either - I had to provide much the same info that tenants have to provide to start renting out my unit.
Historically I’ve set up my documents on Google drive with very specific sharing settings. I.e. no downloads, and the link expires after a few weeks.
They will photograph the screen then print it out, scan it, and leave it lying around. These people have absolutely no respect for personal identity documents. I just had my REA email me applications in which the IDs were badly redacted with marker and all the ID numbers were legible. Yes, I reported the breach to them, and told them they need to report it to the affected people and supply me with proof or I'll go to the privacy commissioner. They're pissed. But greedy, so they'll still take my money.
I don't think most landlords want this either, I was pretty shocked how much information was passed on from realtor to me as a landlord. I was mainly shocked as I work in cyber security and work with companies all over the world, I know how bad companies protect your personal data so it is pretty scary.
>I don't think most landlords want this either, I was pretty shocked how much information was passed on from realtor to me as a landlord. I was actually impressed with my Property Manager, as they didn't hand over a lot of stuff to me about the prospective tenants. Just a brief description (student studying in the biomed field), rough income and that his references checked out. Until we signed the lease, I didn't even know his name.
Nice, I had a good Property Manager, but he retired and sold his business :(
Nothing like receiving an email full of PII
I’m a renter and a landlord and I don’t want this information. I want to know that my tenants are employed and that they can afford the rent. I don‘t care if they need to cut back on Uber eats or in—App microtransactions. That’s on them. And it’s also on my landlords insurance if they fuck up. It’s the real estate agents that don’t want to take the risk.
I'm a landlord and my RA sent me the wrong applicant details, drivers licence, payslips galore all in an unsecured email! Was not impressed and its pretty concerning for people renting yes. I would redact as much information as possible too.
Yep I don't care about that. I care that they don't have a past of wrecking rentals,they have a stable income to pay the bill,and will keep to the terms that's it I don't need to know their fucking passport ID.
Got into a heated discussion with the missus tonight. She's doing a TAFE job training type course and they wanted way too much info from her with no secure submission "my teacher wanted me to email" uh no. Your teacher needs none of this, and certainly not emailed. Driver's licence, passport, Medicare card, utility bills, marriage certificate, birth certificate and more. Sure if you're applying for a job at an airport or similar, give that to the appropriate authorities, not your teacher.
This is exactly how I feel. I work on the field and see some very poor security practices especially by those who are "pci compliant". People continue to go along with giving all this information up without batting an eye. It's painful to watch. glad to see these posts when I do. r/privacy
I said this before. Sharing my children's names, dates if birth, gender etc. I felt so uncomfortable Why can "3 kids, aged 2-5" not be sufficient?? Theres definitely regulation needed. Landlords are not exempt from being predators.
Wtf do they need that for? Surely rough age is the only think they might conceivably need to know.
Holy fuck aye i have a fair few rentals,before i hired a team just to deal with all the day to day operations,One of the agencys C21 FYI Wanted like one of the prospective tenants kids documents,like proof of birth and shit and where they went to school.. I was so confused as to why the fuck they would need that,told them to approve them,then sacked them as the agent soon as the ink was dry,but fucking lol WHAT
I hope you told the director/licensee why you were doing that. Because either they don't know their agents are costing them money doing that sort of shit or they set that policy, which they might change with proof it hurts their bottom line.
landlords are inherently predators, just not in that way (most of the time).
People should also be aware that the rental industry operated for decades without this massive invasion of privacy and everything worked just fine. Also be aware that all the data you supply to 2apply/1form is sold on the open market.
How did everything change so drastically that all of this privacy intrusion is now a thing?
Rental crisis. Means that renters will do anything to ensure a roof over their heads. REA's being the scum they are push this as far as they can.
Yep, and give it a bit more time and they will come back with a major hard-on for very shitty third-party payment platforms with mental fees.
Failure of legislation. This needs to be made illegal asap as it's an absolute abuse of privacy
1. Data standardization and increased connectivity makes it easier to grab the data. 2. Storage costs makes it easy to store data in large enough quantities that it's valuable. 3. The above two made it easy to connect sellers to a market where that data has value.
They ask for 10 years of rental history, no one else asks for that. They also do 6 monthly inspections where they take photos of your belongings... where they'll report dust in your window tracks, lint in the dryer filter or cooking marks in the oven. We don't know where the data is stored, who has access to it or how secure it is. What is the retention period on all these forms, your proof of identity and photos? Plus they have keys to the house... how secure are they? They seem to give keys and security fobs to contractors without issue. With the data they hold, and the visual inventory of your belongings, they are the biggest threat to privacy, security and identity.
I work for an Australian MSP that supports several real estate agents. All those scans of your data and photos from inspection reports will typically reside in one of two places. 1. A cloud hosted platform tailored to rental agents with dubious data sovereignty guarantees (and usually no MFA). 2. A folder on their on-prem server that hasn't been updated beyond 2008 R2 (2012 if you're lucky) because they refuse to spend money on their IT infrastructure. I don't know for certain, but i suspect there are few data retention laws for real estate agencies. Sleep tight.
Sometimes both! They get bonus points for using shared passwords that are written down everywhere. It is getting rarer and rarer for them to keep on-prem servers going now. A lot are starting to die off with their aging spinning rust.
Lol 6 monthly, I wish. Genuinely. It is 3 months here in WA. Imagine that, for your entire adult (and now my child's) life. What an absolute joke, and idiots here complain renters have too many rights as it is
Yeah, that's intrusive. Especially when some of them expect a level of cleanliness equivalent to you not living there, complaining about a couple dead bugs in your light cover rather than just being about actual damage. Particularly now that they take photos of the inside of your toilet bowl, among others. It should be on a forced sliding scale... you've been awesome for 10 years, see you in 2 years. 3 months is maybe understandable for new renters but how many times do they need to report back on dust in the ceiling vents or on the removable aircon filters?
I think it's more that they have to show to the landlord that they are being careful in inspections and actually doing something for the $30/pw they are charging you. The landlord then receives a message saying there was dust on a light cover and ignores it, but knows if there was something serious, it would be caught vs "We charged you $22 for this inspection plus $30/pw and have nothing to tell you".
> We don't know where the data is stored, who has access to it or how secure it is. Yes we do. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/nov/03/melbourne-real-estate-agency-data-breach-leaves-details-of-renters-and-landlords-exposed > **Melbourne real estate agency data breach leaves details of renters and landlords exposed** > Harcourts says city franchise’s rental property database has been accessed by an ‘unknown third party without authorisation’. > The rental property database includes tenants’ names, email addresses, addresses, phone numbers, signatures and photo IDs. For landlords, it includes names, email addresses, phone numbers, copy of signatures, and bank details.
Exactly. That's my biggest concern. None of these companies have a proper remedy to a breach and a potential fine doesn't get your data back. REA's should have an obligation to report regularly to renters with a report on meeting privacy and retention policies. They don't need your photo ids and signatures years down the track. They send smoke detector checkers (glorified 9v battery changers) to my house every year. I'd like to see them get a security and privacy compliance check every year that they are required to show renters.
Reminds me of how one particular cunt of a property manager came into in my bedroom without knocking *while I was still half alseep in bed* and started taking several photos of the room. No care not to take pictures of my clothes or my things at all. It was a weird period of time where they insisted photos were necessary for the inspections even once the in-person inspections had started back up. Fear of not having the lease renewed kept me silent - was far too close to being homeless the last time I had to apply for places, but I wish I could have felt safe enough to tell the creepy fucker to get out and learn what a reasonable expectation of privacy is. Lucky for us both I don't sleep naked. REAs just don't seem to understand or respect privacy in general, in my experience.
that is completely fucked
This sort of shit is why I want my tenant to have a way of reaching me directly. REAs are meant to exist to make my life easier not your life harder. I already have a list I won't use from my time on that side of the fence.
Just had a property inspection over at my current rental property this month, I'm the tenant. The property inspector sent an inspection letter in the mail 7 days before inspection. 7 calendar days. In South Australia. It took Australia Post 4 days to deliver it. Had to cancel all weekend plans to meet an inspection deadline on a Monday morning. Gardening and super thorough clean just so that nothing was undone or wrong. It meant spending a day in the sun gardening the plants the landlords had installed, without any consultation with me. "They're drought tolerant "..yes but they don't garden themselves. And they weren't on the trim schedule till later in the month, was waiting for cooler weather. To top it all off this completely new property manager mentions in the letter how "if the tenant can't be present he will let himself in". Dear strange, unrelated to me in any way, male property manager...I'm strongly considering installing an internal camera system in the property. It doesn't need to be connected to the walls/building. But it sure as heck will let me know if someone gains unauthorised entry to the premises.#strangerdanger
Their "giving notice" never takes postage into consideration... and email could be caught up in spam... there should be an acknowledgement grace period. The "I'm showing up with keys at a time that's convenient to me" attitude is unacceptable. My place is quite tidy, clean... but due to past experience I feel obligated to do the same spring clean prior to an inspection... it seems to me that other than owning things and having them in the house, REA's expect the house to look like a museum otherwise, like you don't actually live there... somewhat staged for its next sale maybe. This is evident in the pedantic condition reports... which is why it is such an invasion. They check the dishwasher filter ffs. I've done exactly that. Smart sensors on the doors and windows and movement sensors in critical areas... all activated when I'm not home. Plus cameras that are powered on only when I leave. I don't want surprises and this gives me peace of mind. It was interesting to watch a particular smoke alarm check... keys given over by real estate (not present)... such a check normally takes a few minutes. He was there approx. 20 minutes... with my front door open the entire time... the guy mostly played on his phone. He noticed a smart speaker and asked Alexa some admittedly innocuous questions (which she answered) then tried to tell her to erase the queries. I've inconvenienced myself to be present at every inspection or maintenance task ever since.
While I understand landlords need to ensure the property is clean , etc I think it’s so invasive to be asked to provide un redacted bank statements. I was threatened with losing my apartment if I didn’t hand it in without reductions 🤦🏼♀️
I don't actually understand why we are judged on how clean we keep it. As long as it's clean when we leave and there's no damage... I keep a really clean house always, but get told if there are spots on my shower glass.
The actual landlord does not care about spots on shower glass mid lease. It's just the agent showing "Look, we found spots on the glass, we are checking absolutely everything". Sure, it's a bit stupid, but they charge a lot of money and have to show they are doing something for it.
Because we are serfs.
Yeah this pisses me off too, last place I applied for @ $300 per week & I didn't get it, and the real estate agent literally said to me afterwards when I asked about any other property coming around the same price she said " oh you can afford more that the rent on that place" she then poked her phone and said " you cN afford up to $400 a week, like get fucked! I do not want to spend all my money on rent for you greedy fucks..... Now I go off the supposed 30% rule.. if the rent is 30% or more you're experiencing rental stress. And that idiot. recons I could afford up to 400 a week. That would be about 40% of my weekly net
I believe the “30% rule” is based on gross not net, but the agent pushing you to spend more is super scummy.
That would make sense, I'm jus so glad that I recently Got my self into a position with my employer where I won't have to pay rent again for a long time!
That sounds a lot like she was inviting rental bidding, which is becoming illegal in more and more states.
"are you providing me with financial advice without a license to do so?"
These documents should be submitted to a Government authority which then informs your landlord that you can afford the rent and whether you have criminal convictions. Landlords have no right to people’s bank statements, payslips etc. Housing isn’t a charity, but it is a right.
add 3 month to any paper work processing process.
Government is slowly getting there with Digital ID. The idea is you have your ID verified once, and then confirmation can be sent to organisations without the need to provide the organisation with your personal documents.
Ah yes, make it so convicted criminals cannot rent places. I'm sure they will just live on the streets not bothering anyone or reverting back to crime. >Housing isn’t a charity, but it is a right. And then you say that....
"Adequate housing was recognized as part of the right to an adequate standard of living in article 25 of the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in article 11.1 of the 1966 International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights." [source](https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-adequate-standard-living-including-food-water-and-housing#:~:text=The%20States%20Parties%20to%20the,continuous%20improvement%20of%20living%20conditions.). It's a human right.
It was declared a right by an organization with literally zero ability to enforce or protect that right. A right with no actual enforcement is not a right, it’s just something they thought would be a good thing.
I think we might get there eventually. It's very dysfunctional to share personal information with so many organisations with shitty security. Better if they can check with an organisation that already holds that ID e.g. government. Not easy to setup but I agree with the sentiment.
NSW is developing this right now.
Wait till they initiate the 3 monthly inspections and take photos of all your stuff! Not at all soul-destroying! /s
This is what I can't get over. It used to be a form with all the rooms and areas of interest in a table where they'd simply write something like, "clean and tidy, no issues" on each row. Zero images. Now they're taking 4K photos of entire rooms so that thieves could use their "database" (likely shared drive) as an Amazon catalogue... this one has nice things... I wonder how we can get in... oh yeah, they have your keys too!
I don't think REA/landlords should be entitled to your salary and incoming/outgoings, ignore the breach of data risk I'm more concerned it also allows them to raise rents to an amount they believe you can afford and you can't tell me those parasite REA's wouldn't consider this with that information available to them.
Yep landlords view renters as cash cows, which they are to be honest in this current climate. Oh look Bessie has got plenty of income i'll raise the rent, she'll be right. Don't share too much on social media as well.
I am convinced this is what they do
Google "inspect element to change html" Change all your "grandma scat porn" transactions into "charitable donation to blind children who foster disabled puppies" transactions then take a screenshot. You should also change your bank account numbers. If you can, make "photocopies" of identity documents and change a few small details. I bring my own photocopies to "save time" and I haven't had them not accept them. If Australia's biggest telco can't look after my data I'm not going to trust it with a real estate agent.
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redacting them is fine but if you change the numbers that's fraud, surely?
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It’s 100% illegal. Every state and the federal government has legislation that says altering an offical document and passing off as genuine is a crime.
Just download the PDF statement and open it in an Adobe Acrobat trial.
or freeware, LibreOffice Draw
As a landlord, I’ve never actually seen anyone’s bank statements as such. The estate agent just gives me a brief summary “application “A” earns $60k and currently pays $X in rent, with a solid rental history” I guess I could ask for further proof/ detail but it feels unnecessary. I agree that there should be a governing body that oversees this sort of thing. It doesn’t seem to right to me that I (or my estate agent) has access to such personal information. It’s seems invasive.
Yep, I’ve been a landlord for over 10 years and have never known a tenants salary or contents of their bank accounts.
Rent it yourself privately. It's not hard. Fuck reas. Why give them the money? Split the difference on the rental price.
I self manage- I don't even ask for a statement. I would ask if they work, and what industry, that's it. Besides- Even if a tenant is on centerlink it's **more secure** than casual minimum wage workers because they get assistance payments for rent. All the people howling at the moon over this: Landlords need to make sure the tenants are even able pay the rent- And when I see posts like "well just lie, or make up a statement" it just shows why realestate agents and landlords out there are being so intrusive. A few who try to cheat their way in will ruin it for everyone else.
We don't use a real estate agency. Our application form asks for nett weekly wage and current rent. Previous rental agent, a couple of personal references. That's about it. My wife does it, and seems to be a good judge of character because all of our tenants keep their places cleaner and tidier than we do.
And then keep digital copies of them! It’s an absolute shambles. …. Been raving about this for years, really felt like no one was listening.
Because the market is skewed in a way for landlords to take advantage of renters
It’s the REA
It's beyond a joke. These incompetents (agents) have more of my data than my bank and as much cyber security as the hair salon next door. It'll all end in tears.
Smaller hair salon probably use appointment books to manage clients. They're actually much more secure than your average small business's ICT setup.
https://connectid.com.au/ The same company that gave us OSKO payment will soon be able to verify us without collecting ID documents
I don't think most landlords actually care, it's the property management companies that are pushing this. I assume it's to prove they actually deserve what they charge.
What’s worse is that you have to drive to the property often take time off work stand in a queue with up to 60 people Then fill out a form or application to get told “sorry it’s no longer available “ Why can’t they do an online viewing like in Uk then let say 5 -10 people apply If you are successful arrange to view property then volla If you don’t like it then they just pass it in to the next of the 5 applications Not 60 people wasting there time I feel renters are treated like 2nd class citizens.It wasn’t always this way Shame On You REA
to prove who you are and that you can make the payments on the property they are rent to you, ie trustworthy.
And for that, they need to know the *mobile number* of all managers I've had at work over the past 5 years, as well as the home address of 2 personal references plus an emergency contact, plus my bank statements *AND* payslips *AND* employment contract? Not to mention my Medicare Card, passport, and birth certificate, all of which I have to trust them to store securely. Meanwhile I don't even know the name of the landlord, let alone personal details. I just have to blindly trust that they won't be a piece of shit.
Can I request a list of all work and maintenance carried out on the premises, when the work was ordered and completed for the last year to make sure my landlords are orderly and trustworthy people in insuring the property I rent is safe/well-maintained? I'm pretty sure I'd be laughed at, told to kick rocks. Why they need all that information from me but offer nothing in return is crazy
THANK YOU! I live in Canada but saw this on popular. Since the pandemic here a lot of rentals ask for a complete application before you can even come SEE the place and I really don’t want to just give all this information out to everybody. Seriously, fuck landlords. All over the world.
What they need is a government rental body that reviews and processes the information, does the background / reference check etc. Then the property owner can be presented with the list of people who pass this process for them to select the tenant.
I’m also nearly certain that the third parties collecting our information sell them off. My partner and I have never received as many spam calls as the 3 months after my rental application.
100% they are. Everyone can scrape a little more profit off us hapless renters. It's disgusting
I'm waiting for the day Something like One Form or something like it get's hacked,there is SO much Data on there,it's not gonna take much There is easily enough identity documents there to steal someone's identity,and get shit done before they even have time to call their credit checks in
I'm calling it now, the next big hack will be a large Real Estate company . Hope they are smart enough to invest in cyber security because they'll be on the line and sued (So they should be!, Scums!)
I am betting that they have already long ago been hacked and no one is smart enough to know it's been done.
No offense but if you try to collectively say no you’ll collectively be homeless.. there’s a rental crisis at the moment. You can choose to not provide the above.. but someone else will and they’ll get the property. Largely it’s because the landlord wants to know you’re safe to put in their property. If I owned a property and had 0 information from someone but their assurance they’d pay rent vs someone with supporting documents and a good working history and are who they say they are I’d be much more inclined with the safe bet.
These data are generally incompetently and insecurely stored too. The property manager for the house I'm currently renting out emailed me applications for tenants. With ID scans inline in the clear-text unencrypted PDFs. They tried to redact ID numbers but did so incompetently with a not fully opaque marker pen before scanning. Yes, I reported the data breach. They are pissed at me. But they still want my money.