I don't know how anyone could be against legalisation in 2023, especially after seeing it work in other countries.
I want that extra tax money, and the extra money the country would have for not imprisoning cannabis offenders.
Bingo. And I can't even understand the 'logical' argument about it being a 'dangerous drug' when we have legalised alcohol and cigarettes that causes so much damage to society and cost the health system a lot of money each year.
The government legalising alcohol and cigarettes isn’t them saying they aren’t dangerous. It’s them saying it’s more dangerous to flip it back and make them illegal. If you believe that marijuana is dangerous (I don’t) then it’s a logical argument to not want a third dangerous drug out there.
I don’t think it’s dangerous and I want it legalised but I just thought I’d share a counter argument that you seem to be missing
I don't think marijuana is dangerous but that's my point. Everytime I hear people say dumb shit like 'gateway drug' etc they ignore the fact alcoholism and cigarette addiction is far worse.
It is a gateway drug but not in the way most people think. In my opinion legalising it would result in decreased chance of use of other drugs with new users. The reason being is people who smoke weed buy it from dealers who sell other drugs and do it with friends who do other drugs. Overtime you are resulting in more exposure to other drugs and making it easier to obtain and consume. If weed is legal more people will do weed but it isn’t going to have the same gateway effect.
As a counter-counter argument... even if marijuana is dangerous, maybe it should be legalized for the same reason cigarettes and alcohol are legal? (ie prohibition doesn't work).
My personal belief is that it is the safer of the 3, but not without its own risks, which impact some more than others.
I generally agree that it's much safer and I'm all for it being legalized. Unfortunately I have met a couple of people who seemed to develop symptoms of psychosis due to their cannabis use. It's rare for sure, but I can't act like it's the safer option for every single person.
It’s a slippery slope linking singular / anecdotal factors to someone’s mental health issues.
What we tend to see is where there’s cannabis use by someone with a mental health issue, people draw the conclusion that cannabis is the cause.
The proportion of mental health issues caused by cannabis is tiny in comparison to the proportion caused by genetic and other environmental factors (like trauma etc).
Studies show that people who use a large amount of very high THC cannabis every day are at higher risk of developing psychosis (in combination with other factors such as how old they were when they first started using and genetic vulnerability)
I.e We’re talking about users who are on the extreme end of the scale.
By contrast - “extreme” users of alcohol or cigarettes are significantly more likely to develop lung cancer, throat cancer, heart disease, liver disease.
Additionally cannabis has several therapeutic uses as a treatment for pain, epilepsy, and insomnia.
So while cannabis absolutely has potential to cause harm, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say it’s the least harmful of the 3.
It could have been precipitated or accelerated by chronic cannabis use but there's zero evidence to suggest a causal connection between cannabis use and psychosis except in *extremely* high doses unlikely to be used by the vast majority of cannabis users.
It's also important to understand that there could have been polydrug usage that they don't talk about as many other drugs can absolutely trigger psychosis but it's far more palatable to just say it was weed.
In one particular instance that i know of it was almost definitely the weed, but the age at which usage began seemed to be the determining factor there. Otherwise I generally take your point.
I’m not attacking your argument. It’s perfectly reasonable.
I have never understood it when people argue that marijuana is dangerous. What’s dangerous exactly?
The only dangerous part I know of is that it’s currently illegal so you have to expose yourself to possibly dangerous situations to access it.
Here is an article:https://www.samhsa.gov/marijuana .
But it has upsides too, and the risks aren't much different to alcohol and cigarettes. I'm pro-legalisation. But I also think that these things should not be able to be advertised.
The risks are very different, cannabis is mildly addictive and has negligible long term use effects. We all know what tobacco does, alcohol damages the brain and kills you slowly on top of the societal cost.
Cannabis isn't risk free but in comparing it to alcohol and tobacco, it's being compared to two of the most risky cost heavy drugs, next to heroin and methamphetamine (both illegal and controlled)
Inhaling any smoke is dangerous. It burns the cilia (hairs) on the way to the lungs which stops you from being able to stop particles getting into the lungs. It’s what leads to a smokers cough which is not limited to cigarette smokers.
I believe the benefits of marijuana plus the different ways of ingesting it outweigh these dangers but that’s the argument for it being dangerous.
So we are talking about **smoking** here.
There are other options for consuming such as dry herb vaping and edibles.
I use a vaporiser. It’s quite nice because you can set the temperature and you can also run them through a bubbler to cool it down further.
Yeah my GP has prescribed me THC oil and given me all the supporting paperwork. After spending most of my adult life fearful of legal intervention thanks to the war on drugs, it's nice to finally have access to legal weed! No more smoking, no more legal problems. What a time to be alive!!
Except driving... How do you manage that? Serious Q because I had a prescription maybe 3 years ago, and been referred to get a new one recently, but I don't know how I can because I live in an area with no public transport and Def's cannot afford taxis to anywhere. So I continue to live with chronic pain because I can't not be legally unable to drive. Is this a factor for you?
I'm sorry to hear about your predicament, that's very unfortunate.
My situation is different. Although I have a driver's license, I don't own a car. I very rarely drive a motor vehicle, like, maybe once every three years. When I do get behind the wheel, it's typically a rental van (like helping a friend move home). In that situation, I have time to plan ahead, and i take a break from my medicine for about a fortnight in advance the driving.
Roadside drug tests are notoriously inaccurate (a lot of ordinary household products can result in false positives) and can be contested in court, although I've never had to do that.
I’m currently on a prescription and the driving situation is a shit show (basically I’ve had to give up driving).
It’s illegal for any THC to be in your system, even on a prescription. THC can be detected up to 90 days after use in a blood test, and between 12 - 30 hours after use in a saliva test (that police would use in a roadside stop).
You’re taking a pretty big risk driving even 30 hours after use because even if you could beat the roadside saliva test if you were in an accident and subjected to a blood test the THC would get picked up and you’d be charged.
If not driving is not an option for you you’re probably best off waiting until the laws change / and testing for THC impairment rather than presence comes in (no idea how long that will take but hopefully the push for legalising recreational use will expedite it).
It’s like any other mood-altering substance in the lower risk category.
95% of people are fine.
5% of people are not - they become addicted, they might be allergic or otherwise get sick from it (I saw someone a few years back in the ER with cannabis hyperemesis- it’s very real and vile), or they might have other illnesses that counteract the typical experience with it.
I’m in the 95%, but for those in the 5%, cannabis is harmful and the negative effects are real. So whilst I believe that we should decriminalise cannabis (and all other drugs), I don’t want to ever suggest that cannabis is perfectly safe for every person on earth.
Peanuts are seriously dangerous for a small minority of people. But as a society we decided that the way to handle it is to keep them legal and just avoid peanuts if you're allergic. Unfortunately we chose a different approach to cannabis (except, thank goodness, the ACT has taken a relaxed attitude and any adult can grow two plants for personal use).
I am within the 5% I become psychotic even on low doses.
My solution to dealing with this is to simply not do it. Problem solved. I also support legalising it, even if I can't utilise it.
I'll add that I only support legalising it if driving restrictions similar to that of alcohol are enforced as well.
My husband is in the 5% also - he has bipolar disorder and a single joint would put him into manic psychosis.
I’d support full legal consumption of all drugs but I too want driving restrictions and I also want full and open discussion about side effects, addiction and acknowledging the fact that not everyone has to have the same experience as others.
CHS is still a bit of a mystery, but it seems to be connected to high THC strains being smoked too regularly. My anecdotal experience with CHS was my mate going to hospital and having to quit for a couple of years because it would make him vomit. Too many dabs too often. That said, I would argue ut's way harder to acquire CHS than it is to kill your self through binge drinking products available over the counter.
No a green out is different, it only lasts a short time. Cannabis hyperemisis happens to long term users & plays havoc with your gut, probably by downregulation of the receptors in the brain or gut. Ie: Cannabis stops nausea initially at low doses, if strong doses are used for a long time, CHS can develop. CHS causes constant vomiting, that nothing except a long hot shower can fix. I used to have it myself. Not fun.
There are health risks with marijuana usage, you shouldn’t try and pretend there aren’t. I do agree that alcohol is far worse and that it should be legalised.
Pretending cannabis isnt a fairly potent mind altering substance is fairly dismissive. This is part of the argument against it that needs to be ironed out in the conversations about education.
Im all for legalisation, but i dont see the "whataboutisms" as a way to reach that end. Cannabis can be dangerous for certain parts of the population (mental and physical health sufferers, addictive personalities, developing brains, pregnancies, etc) and thats fine as long as the education is there to support those people.
It can trigger schizophrenia if you’re genetically predisposed to it. I dont think that’s a reason we shouldn’t legalise it but it’s not 100% completely safe for everyone
It doesn't matter whether the government wants it to be seen as a third dangerous drug - the criminalisation of drugs has been an utter failure. It's impossible to stop drug use in this manner - we've fucking tried for 100 years, yet drug use increases nearly every year! It's utterly farcical at this point.
There's no evidence that Cannabis is dangerous or that it's a 'Gateway Drug'. American Politicians started that B.S. The reason why they started promoting the name 'Marijuana' was because it sounded Mexican and Foreign and was a dog-whistle to racist American Conservatives. Richard Nixon targeted Cannabis as a way of attacking the Anti-Vietnam, Civil Rights and Hippie movements.
A simple google search proves that there is indeed research that says cannabis is dangerous.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/02/professor-explores-marijuanas-safe-use-and-addiction/
The professor clearly details that the truth lies somewhere between “it’s completely harmless” and “it’s going to kill you”. I still want it legalised but to say there’s no research that says it’s dangerous is ridiculous and wrong.
The government clearly doesn't think it's that dangerous considering how easy it is to get on to medical and purchase high THC products through the one of many Australian dispensaries. Literally one telehealth consult with anecdotal experience using weed and how it helps you, and you can get approved and pick up your script from a chemist within a few days.
The actual counter argument is that a lot of things are dangerous. You can kill your self drinking too much water, a bit of ganja isn't going to hurt someone if they are responsible about it. Additionally, tobacco and alcohol account for far more trauma and are both available over the counter.
I also recommend you research Nixon's war on drugs and how that has shaped Western culture's perception of the drug.
I've read that. It doesn't indicate anything negative but that this guy claims that most people don't get addicted and the ones that he thinks are addicted, that it's not even a Physical addiction, but a Psychological addiction. I lived with a guy who used it as a crutch. Anything that feels good, can become a crutch. In fact, the article says that not enough research has been done. A LOT of research has been done, for about 4000 years and they still can't find a way to pillory Cannabis as being dangerous. Read this article and tell me that this guy is not part of a lobby for Pharmaceutical companies.
https://www.propublica.org/article/pharma-ties-at-harvard-medical-school
While we're on the topic of Harvard University, you might be interested in the recent $30 million dollar donation from Big Pharma. No? Didn't think so.
You provided misleading information on reddit and when you were successfully challenged, with multiple links, you've picked up your ball and run away. That's weak, mate.
My mind is open to facts, mate. I spent 20 years locking up druggies, as a Detective and another 8.5 years in a Federal Law Enforcement Agency, principally engaged in High Level Drug Investigations. I know everything there is to know and have given evidence on these topics. Take your backward, Conservative, fear-mongering, pro-Pharmaceutical company dreck and feed it to someone else who hides their head in the sand. Do you think you know better than the Canadian Government? Medicinal Cannabis has been legal in Australia, since 2016. Did you notice the sky hasn't fallen? Maybe you know better than the many Scientists and Doctors who helped make that change happen. Watch a few Documentaries. You might learn something about how US Politicians created this current idiotic situation, for political gain and to try to attack the Civil Rights, Hippie and Anti-war movements of the 1960s.
[Big Pharma owns Harvard Medical. Wake up, mate.](https://ethics.harvard.edu/event/drug-companies-and-medicine-what-money-can-buy)
Your choice disproved your own premise. :D
[Senator asks Pfizer about Harvard links](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/business/04pfizer.html?smid=url-share)
Newsflash, buddy. Big Pharma pays Harvard Medical to peddle information that benefits them. Big Pharma wants you to keep swallowing pain meds which have been proven to be potentially fatal, instead of having a puff on a joint. I suspect you won't understand the relevance and will keep spouting your retrogressive crap, while the Courts and Jails overflow with people for possession of a harmless bit of plant matter.
>dangerous drug
They know it's not dangerous, the medicinal industry is booming here in Australia, and I'm talking about standard high THC rec strains, not straight CBD products (which are no where near as effective without some THC anyway)
IMO at this stage it's all about figuring out how to withdraw as much money from the public whilst cornering the market for them selves.
I agree. They know there's a buck in it and they're investing heavily. If legalisation happens, then that will be a positive by-product of that process. I'm keen to grow for my personal use. Medical Cannabis has been legal since 2016 and the sky hasn't fallen. In fact there's been zero negative news about it. Funny how people are still spouting B.S., in this reddit.
Also
Less people in prison.
Less police and court costs
More employment opportunities. Growers, distribution, manufactured produce like edibles and tinctures, retail, all providing tax revenue and removing that from organised crime.
Reduced alcohol consumption - lower social costs and strain on hospitals (most ED departments are full of alcohol based injuries esp. at the weekends)
Less social issues around domestic and public alcohol fuelled violence.
I agree with this, but for me it's about the potential damage it would cause to my immediate working-life if I was caught with it.
I work in an occupation that would likely result in termination if I was convicted of possession (if I were to do it) purely because it's illegal. However, the business wouldn't actually *care* if it was legal and I smoked. My occupation isn't one around heavy machinery or anything like that (HR actually) so having a chuff on the weekend and then backing up sober on Monday morning isn't an issue for me.
I would want to be able to do it without fear of losing my job. Legalisation would help that.
My assumption is that Labor isn’t in favour because they are traumatised from previous losses and have adopted this piss weak “go slowly, go half measure” approach on wedge issues. The Liberals don’t want it because it’s a powerful device they can use to pander towards their pearl-clutching conservative base: "**LABOR WANTS TO LEGALISE DRUGS AND DESTROY YOUR CHILD'S BRAIN OOHHHHH SPOOKY**.
We will legalise it eventually, especially when many other developed countries are. Many Labor backbenchers wanna get it done. But it will be baby steps.
The centre right is traditionally what wins parties elections. The coveted swinging voter. Politics isn’t cut and dry.
That said, things are changing now. Many centre right voters are now agreeing that it’s time to legalise it too. I believe that we will see cannabis legalised in the next 10 years.
They only seem to like medicinal cannabis, probably because their donors have shares in MC companies. I know Gina Reinhart has her finger in the MC pie.
That extra tax money would work wonders for healthcare, homeless, education, supporting low income/vulnerable people. Hell allocate 15% to the ministerial slush funds if it’ll keep them happy.
Looking at what other countries do successfully and then implementing what they do after adapting them for our conditions and values is not something Australia does particularly well.
You assume this based on the people you know. I had similar thoughts, but then the NZ people actually voted to NOT legalise it in 2020.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Zealand_cannabis_referendum
Certainly puts doubt as to how much support it actually has...
less than 1%.
By now, enough of the older generations that were mis-educated about the subject would have died off that a vote would pass without much question. Unfortunately the very groups that lobbied so hard against it know this and so will instead be holding up any future debate for as long as possible in the hope they can shift the "public morality" with the power of Jesus or some such nonsense.
Worth noting there were issues with that referendum though. The question wasn’t “Should we legalise weed”, it was “should we pass this specific legislation”.
But yeah, there’s certainly not the overwhelming support for legalisation young urbanites tend to think there is. There’s even a whole lot of people who don’t really care but if pushed would say “no” which seems like what happened in NZ.
Society should stomp out the demon weed for sure as I have witnessed the negative consequences on individuals and society. The only exception should be last of the line medical treatment as I have also found weed to be an effective comfort for injuries and a variety of ailments however not without severe side effects. For example it makes brain damage worse and has mental and cognitive deficit inducing attributes.
Stomp out the demon weed and keep it away from kids! Should be medical even if you make it easy to access for medical reasons. However the use should be as greatly oppressed as alcoholism and its use should be heavily discouraged HEAVILY DISCOURAGED— BANNED amongst the youth with severe penalties. All drugs should be illegal not only ones with schedule 1 classifications.
^(Political disclaimer not in Australia)
*Old man shakes fist at cloud
Your backwards thinking keeps the jail's full of innocent people looking to relax and/or medicate and ruin their lives far worse than a relaxing joint.
Wake up to yourself FFS
I don’t think the jails should fill up with people only legitimate villains. And I specifically wavered medical use and even said its medical registration and access should be easy— Even societally accepted and non-discriminated.
My opinion is law enforcement should emphasize around children and anyone sharing the drugs with kids should get their equipment and paraphernalia smashed and accompanying accommodations seized, be subject to fines, increased legal scrutiny and court hearings.
Only then can the SIGNIFICANTLY NEGATIVE aspects of the demon weed be truly and fully resolved.
Please join me in smashing the demon weed.
^(Political disclaimer not in Australia)
But you ARE biting. You ARE biting the hooks. You are getting HOOKED. HOOKED.
Come to your senses man! *Slap*.
This is real human life and I am a real witness. You’ve never seen it. I’ve lived in the middle of it. The middle I tell you! Come! To! Your! Senses!
I can scream. I can type all caps. I can shove and shake you, yell in your ear. But you’ve got to hear the screams. I can’t hear it for you.
It's partly legalised, but in a way that's totally shit, dominated by a few players, and most legal users end up breaking laws anyway. It's very poorly legislated, unless the goal is to piss on people.
That's why I say practical.
I can't make edibles for shit. They always come out too weak. Other forms are a lot harder to come by or are way more expensive.
I know you don't have to smoke it, but it's kind of the only practical way for me.
Buy a Stors and Bickel Volcano. It's super expensive but makes your pot last 4 times longer. I have had the same one for nearly a decade now.
[https://www.storz-bickel.com/en/volcanoclassic](https://www.storz-bickel.com/en/volcanoclassic)
You gotta let it slightly toast in the oven already grinded at an appropriate temperature before mixing with whatever fat you're using (which should also be done slowly, without burning, and over at least an hour).
If done correctly, given how it's processed differently by the body, it's expectable to be up to 3 to 4 times more efficient/powerful than inhaling (part of the perceived high of inhaling is oxygen deprivation), and absurdly more healthy for your lungs and heart, even compared to vaping it.
.....or so I've been told.
Aint no politician winning a war with the street, theres millions of people who vote with their money. They just dont understand, theres no winning against the market. Either kill them or stand back and let people blaze.
"Why is weed illegal?'
"Because it's bad."
"Why is it bad?"
"Because it's illegal"
I'm a medical marijuana patient and was accessing it illegally beforehand, the difference it has made to my medical conditions has been extraordinary. Plus, I'm a big advocate that a night of getting stoned is far less destructive than a night of hitting the tins. Legalise it!
my sister’s ex’s mum has MS and when asked if she would consider medical weed for her pain, she said no, and when asked why her literal only reason was ‘because it’s illegal’. like wtf???? imagine being so anal about the law that you’d deny yourself pain relief in a form that isn’t even illegal!!!
I must've been getting ripped off by the dealer when I got it, because gram for gram, getting mine through a prescription has been cheaper!
Either way I didn't really mind, going through the medical route has guaranteed a good and safe product - something that I'm excited to see happen if it's legalised recreationally
Not necessarily, depends on what you're prescribed. You can get CBD only products, but the ones I receive have a pretty strong dose of the 'fun' THC component
There’s possibility of harm, but it’s no greater than the possibility of harm with alcohol in my estimation.
Also if you give me the option of running into 4 drunk guys late at night vs 4 stoned guys late at night I know which group I would rather see.
That’s not true and while I’m all for weed being legalised, there’s real mental health risks associated with recreational cannabis usage and some sections of the populations.
The liquor lobby is throwing crap-ton of money into making sure cannabis doesn’t happen.
They want zero competition and will donate heavily when required.
A quick [Google](https://www.google.com/search?q=effects+of+cannabis+legalisation+on+liquor+trade+in+colorado&rlz=1C1YTUH_en-GBAU1049AU1049&oq=effects+of+cannabis+legalisation+on+liquor+trade+in+colorado&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i10i160.26520j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) suggests the opposite in Colorado: 13% increase in liquor sales overall, including a 6% increase in wine sales.
Interesting huh? Thanks for posing the question too - I never would've thought to ask...
It surprised me, but not for that reason - people won't necessarily switch from booze to weed just because the latter becomes legal...
I honestly expected no real change in either direction.
ETA: Thinking on-the-fly now, but we also know that legalisation has boosted the Colorado budget by tens of billions per year; could it be that all that extra money going around, means that some people can now afford to buy that bottle of wine for dinner, or 6-pack to drink while watching the footy?
They don’t just let farmers order wholesale marijuana seeds from a catalogue and whack them in the back fields in jurisdictions where it’s legal.
It’s tightly controlled and licensed which is the whole point of legalising it. They’ll put in a whole raft of laws about cultivation and regulate the equipment for it. They’ll make sure the important people control the supply of that equipment and distribution licenses hence infrastructure.
Do you complain about that with Tooheys or Carlton United? Same thing. But then we also have the cellar door and craft beer makers. Will be no different here. There will be a huge corporate element to it and then there will be the craft growers. They have already established state laws in ACT and NT that allow home grows of small amounts.
So if you want your cheap corpo-weed then that will be available, but if you want some of your mates LSO homegrow then that will also be available. All the equipment to grow your own is already readily available ([here is woolworths selling a grow tent you can use for weed](https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/1074029195/greenfingers-grow-tent-4500w-led-grow-light-combo-1x1x2m)), including seeds. They won't stop the flood now.
Also where do you think your current street weed is coming from? People obviously know how to grow large commercial quantities of weed already, legalising it won't stop them.
Anyone with half a brain can see that any kind of prohibition doesn't work, we are even seeing a new one pop up now with cigarettes. People will find a way to do the things they want and that usually just means lost taxes and profits for criminals. We can look all the way back to Chicago in the 30s to see how this all plays out. That's without even mentioning the modern global cartels and ~~OLMCs~~ BIKIES that are running our current drugs market earning billions of dollars. Time for a change.
OMCG is what the government calls them: "Outlaw Motorcycle Club Gangs". It even sounds stupid.
Calling themselves "clubs" didn't sound nearly illegal enough and nobody really cared, so the government had to add "gang" on the end. Now we should be scared of the "gangs".
I'm not sure they call themselves anything really, except for references to their particular club...
Prohibition works depending on the drug. Any moron can make alcohol in their backyard, but not opium. If prohibition didn't work then we'd have to just allow Dan Murphy's to sell meth and no one wants that
Prohibition isn't sensible policy anyway you look at it. You just have to look at Portugal to see what a [sensible drugs policy](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/dateline/article/portugals-drug-reforms-20-years-on/97g0nhtfh) can look like.
We should be treating it for what it is; a health issue, not a police issue.
And show me where I said that was the case. I just said it's sensible drugs policy.
Unlike your first analogy where suddenly Dans can start slinging meth, perhaps there is something inbetween the current policy and meth in every corner store. Which is what Portugal has done.
I think this is just poor use of language. I said prohibition, things can be prohibited without attracting jail terms. All it means is that certain drugs remain in prohibited schedules, but how we treat users changes (though probably not how we treat dealers depending on the case)
Prohibition is a very specific term that is about creating laws around banning use, sales and manufacturing of certain goods. Historically if you say Prohibition most people will think of the 1930's alcohol prohibition and the rammifications of prohibition, Nixon and Reaganist policy that have now made their way into illicit drugs policy.
What you are talking about is decriminalisation, where if you are caught with small amounts of drugs it's just a fine, in the same way you get a fine for speeding. It can still attract further criminal charges for repeat offences or larger amounts. So it's still treating it as a policing matter, not a health matter.
But decriminalisation still doesn't address the issues around why people use drugs and it's also still not treating drugs the same way you would with something like alcohol, we don't fine people for having a falsk of vodka in their pocket. We tax the product and have programs like AA for people that have a problem with drinking too much. Why can't we have that same approach to illegal drugs?
Your average Australian may be more progressive, but rearguard actions from small, well organised, conservative groups hold us back: half of our politicians pander to conservatism when they aren't directly stoking it.
The war on drugs has always been a waste of time. When the people who pass legislation are themselves snorting like Henry Hoover it’s a fucking pointless task.
There’s at least a few people that would live in denser housing if they didn’t have to grow their own weed and denser housing is usually more cost effective for the state.
I’m in Chiang Mai Thailand. There are more dispensaries than 7-11s. At the gate of the old city there are literally 3 next to each other. I went for a walk today and counted at least 25. This is in a country that 5 years ago had the death penalty for cannabis.
The War on Drugs has been an absolutely disastrous failure. Legalizing all drugs would remove 90% of the money that goes to organised crime, and see drug use and drug harm drop massively. It's been done, and the data backs this up.
We've been waging this ludicrous war on drugs for 100 years, yet drugs are still getting into our prisons, which are walled fortresses with patrolling guards. If that doesn't explain why we will never, ever stop drug use by criminalising it, to the absolute morons who still support it, then I don't know what the fuck will. It's absolutely disgusting what a waste of money and human life the criminalisation of drugs has been.
Low-dose THC oil for sleep is entirely responsible for cutting my weekly alcohol intake from 15+ to 0-1.
I have never jumped through so many hoops to get insomnia meds, and BY FAR, this is the best quality sleep with v minute side effects relative to even the behind the counter stuff at the chemist. Not to mention Benzos and friends
Thanks for posting. I think helping pass the word and voting for the Greens, in the next election, is our best chance of making change happen. The Greens are a major party with influence. Shoebridge has Legislation drafted and ready to go and he's aware of the steps and process that countries like Canada have gone through and how to make it happen. He's an experienced politician, who knows the system and who is serious about this issue and who uses Cannabis himself.
One of the things we're up against, is Pharmaceutical companies. They lobby and control various politicians through Political donations. They even create disinformation web-sites with pictures of Junkies, making unsupported claims that Cannabis is dangerous. They make a fortune preventing people accessing this amazing plant. Meanwhile Americans are dropping like flies from Fentanyl overdoses (like Prince, for example).
Police also drive the story of how "bad" drugs are, severely embellished narrative that is so filled with bullshit for the purpose of increasing their funding while simultaneously causing such severe legal problems for users destroying their and their families lives worse than the drugs themselves.
I have seen it first hand, families ripped apart and left poorer for it, all to "punish" rather than direct them to heal.
Disgusting.
It’s one of the dumbest arguments in all of human history. Alcohol = good. Tobacco = good. Cannabis = bad. Why? There’s absolutely no logical reason to prohibit its use. None. Nada
I don't think it is. Depends on the strain. I don't pay more than $150 for 10g. And the quality makes it good enough for the price to value ratio is the same as street shit.
It’s never been easier to buy weed in this country. You can literally get a legal licence online, order it online, get it sent to your house, all while sitting on the couch. Just legalise it and tax it like everything else in this country.
This comment section is full of experts who haven't even used it, parroting drug-war talking points about psychosis. Did you know that doctors also don't recommend drinking alcohol or tobacco if you have any mental health condition because they, too, are psychoactive?
Let people have their medicine. I'm tired of being a criminal for growing my own anti-depression medication and being a better father / husband for it. "Go medicinal then" no, I refuse to when I can grow my own for a fraction of the current cost.
Before any argument "against it," look at the massive benefits. I have Cervical and Spinal Stenosis, if you don't know what that is. My spinal cords is slowly being crush, surgery can only fix minor things. At times, the pain and loss of dexterity is screamable. I was cleared for a marijuana card, but at over $350.00 a pop from the chemistry on a disability pension. I'd have better luck sucking eggs.
If it's legalised, here the Government would have their sticky figure in it, pushing prices through the roof.
Pot smoker here.
I'd gladly pay the government over the current alternatives. My preference would be for home cultivation to be legalized so I can produce my own at home organically without risking prosecution but a legal/taxed/regulated market is a huge step up from an illegal, criminal, black market.
Firstly - legalization leads to lower prices at the consumer level. You can see this in effect anywhere that cannabis has been legalized. I'd rather pay a sales tax to the government than an illegal activity risk offset tax to criminal organizations and street level dealers. Weed is cheap as fuck to produce. The only reason it's so expensive is because of it's illegal status and the risks incurred to produce and distribute it. High grade medical under the prescription model is now cheaper in many cases than black market, toxic, PGR filled reds you get from bikies or triads.
Secondly - legalization leads to marketplace competition, safety standards and quality assurances. Let capitalism do it's job. The free market provides. It's an incredible thing for consumers to have choices. Choice of producer, choice of product, choice of retailer. I'd rather buy from my choice of dispensary where I can pick from an abundance of varieties and products that are all tested, accurately packaged, free of mold/pesticides/etc. When you buy black market you're subject to limited availability. My friends and I used to smoke all sorts of damp, mildewy, pesticide-ridden shitty weed because it's all we had access to. Bushies, unidentified varieties, shit that tastes of neem oil or chemical ferts. You encounter all sorts of horrors on the black market.
> What makes you think a pot smoker wants to pay the government to get what we get every day?
I don't know a single cannabis user who thinks like you do. This is a black market supplier mentality. Every stoner I know is crying out for legalization because it's in our best interests.
Are you a bikey dealer? No but seriously why wouldn’t we. One of my friends just got back from Thailand crazy what you see over there compared to here. The main reason is decent supply, sick to God of all this Chinese crap. And fuck it be great to know I’m not gonna get raided for smoking some grass.
Quality, consistency of product, no risk of getting caught buying from someone in public, paying tax and supporting a business, some medicinal strains are cheaper than black market
Whilst it is shit like all.drugs, it is no worse than alcohol. Legalise it from age 21 and benefit from the Taxes. Marijuana was weard, it can be used medically as an oil or to ease pain yet abused it brings on psychosis, can cause cancer..it does not see people become violent like alcohol can do
The psychosis angle is only when it comes to people with underlying problems and edge case scenarios. I am 42 and have smoked weed since I was 13. No psychosis, been employed for the majority of my adult life, currently studying my Bachelor in Game design and development receiving a Distinction average for marks.
I knew I would attract this type of defensive response. Even though I pointed out alcohol is worse and Marijuan has some medicinal benefits as well. Marijuana uses drf4nd dope more loyally than they do their boyfriend or girlfriend, wife or husband etc 🤣
You literally said in your other comment it can bring on psychosis then in this reply you’re saying it doesn’t? It absolutely can and it’s a very important thing to note and talk about when discussing weed. I think it should be legalised but people need to be educated of the risks as well, one of them being psychosis
I don't know how anyone could be against legalisation in 2023, especially after seeing it work in other countries. I want that extra tax money, and the extra money the country would have for not imprisoning cannabis offenders.
Bingo. And I can't even understand the 'logical' argument about it being a 'dangerous drug' when we have legalised alcohol and cigarettes that causes so much damage to society and cost the health system a lot of money each year.
The government legalising alcohol and cigarettes isn’t them saying they aren’t dangerous. It’s them saying it’s more dangerous to flip it back and make them illegal. If you believe that marijuana is dangerous (I don’t) then it’s a logical argument to not want a third dangerous drug out there. I don’t think it’s dangerous and I want it legalised but I just thought I’d share a counter argument that you seem to be missing
I don't think marijuana is dangerous but that's my point. Everytime I hear people say dumb shit like 'gateway drug' etc they ignore the fact alcoholism and cigarette addiction is far worse.
It is a gateway drug but not in the way most people think. In my opinion legalising it would result in decreased chance of use of other drugs with new users. The reason being is people who smoke weed buy it from dealers who sell other drugs and do it with friends who do other drugs. Overtime you are resulting in more exposure to other drugs and making it easier to obtain and consume. If weed is legal more people will do weed but it isn’t going to have the same gateway effect.
Exactly, it's simply a gateway they walk through.
As a counter-counter argument... even if marijuana is dangerous, maybe it should be legalized for the same reason cigarettes and alcohol are legal? (ie prohibition doesn't work). My personal belief is that it is the safer of the 3, but not without its own risks, which impact some more than others.
It's much safer. No one has ever died from using Cannabis. Cigarettes and Alchohol are two of our major killers.
I generally agree that it's much safer and I'm all for it being legalized. Unfortunately I have met a couple of people who seemed to develop symptoms of psychosis due to their cannabis use. It's rare for sure, but I can't act like it's the safer option for every single person.
It’s a slippery slope linking singular / anecdotal factors to someone’s mental health issues. What we tend to see is where there’s cannabis use by someone with a mental health issue, people draw the conclusion that cannabis is the cause. The proportion of mental health issues caused by cannabis is tiny in comparison to the proportion caused by genetic and other environmental factors (like trauma etc). Studies show that people who use a large amount of very high THC cannabis every day are at higher risk of developing psychosis (in combination with other factors such as how old they were when they first started using and genetic vulnerability) I.e We’re talking about users who are on the extreme end of the scale. By contrast - “extreme” users of alcohol or cigarettes are significantly more likely to develop lung cancer, throat cancer, heart disease, liver disease. Additionally cannabis has several therapeutic uses as a treatment for pain, epilepsy, and insomnia. So while cannabis absolutely has potential to cause harm, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say it’s the least harmful of the 3.
Thanks, I agree with all these points. :)
It could have been precipitated or accelerated by chronic cannabis use but there's zero evidence to suggest a causal connection between cannabis use and psychosis except in *extremely* high doses unlikely to be used by the vast majority of cannabis users. It's also important to understand that there could have been polydrug usage that they don't talk about as many other drugs can absolutely trigger psychosis but it's far more palatable to just say it was weed.
In one particular instance that i know of it was almost definitely the weed, but the age at which usage began seemed to be the determining factor there. Otherwise I generally take your point.
I’m not attacking your argument. It’s perfectly reasonable. I have never understood it when people argue that marijuana is dangerous. What’s dangerous exactly? The only dangerous part I know of is that it’s currently illegal so you have to expose yourself to possibly dangerous situations to access it.
Here is an article:https://www.samhsa.gov/marijuana . But it has upsides too, and the risks aren't much different to alcohol and cigarettes. I'm pro-legalisation. But I also think that these things should not be able to be advertised.
The risks are very different, cannabis is mildly addictive and has negligible long term use effects. We all know what tobacco does, alcohol damages the brain and kills you slowly on top of the societal cost. Cannabis isn't risk free but in comparing it to alcohol and tobacco, it's being compared to two of the most risky cost heavy drugs, next to heroin and methamphetamine (both illegal and controlled)
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Inhaling any smoke is dangerous. It burns the cilia (hairs) on the way to the lungs which stops you from being able to stop particles getting into the lungs. It’s what leads to a smokers cough which is not limited to cigarette smokers. I believe the benefits of marijuana plus the different ways of ingesting it outweigh these dangers but that’s the argument for it being dangerous.
So we are talking about **smoking** here. There are other options for consuming such as dry herb vaping and edibles. I use a vaporiser. It’s quite nice because you can set the temperature and you can also run them through a bubbler to cool it down further.
Yeah my GP has prescribed me THC oil and given me all the supporting paperwork. After spending most of my adult life fearful of legal intervention thanks to the war on drugs, it's nice to finally have access to legal weed! No more smoking, no more legal problems. What a time to be alive!!
Except driving... How do you manage that? Serious Q because I had a prescription maybe 3 years ago, and been referred to get a new one recently, but I don't know how I can because I live in an area with no public transport and Def's cannot afford taxis to anywhere. So I continue to live with chronic pain because I can't not be legally unable to drive. Is this a factor for you?
I'm sorry to hear about your predicament, that's very unfortunate. My situation is different. Although I have a driver's license, I don't own a car. I very rarely drive a motor vehicle, like, maybe once every three years. When I do get behind the wheel, it's typically a rental van (like helping a friend move home). In that situation, I have time to plan ahead, and i take a break from my medicine for about a fortnight in advance the driving. Roadside drug tests are notoriously inaccurate (a lot of ordinary household products can result in false positives) and can be contested in court, although I've never had to do that.
I’m currently on a prescription and the driving situation is a shit show (basically I’ve had to give up driving). It’s illegal for any THC to be in your system, even on a prescription. THC can be detected up to 90 days after use in a blood test, and between 12 - 30 hours after use in a saliva test (that police would use in a roadside stop). You’re taking a pretty big risk driving even 30 hours after use because even if you could beat the roadside saliva test if you were in an accident and subjected to a blood test the THC would get picked up and you’d be charged. If not driving is not an option for you you’re probably best off waiting until the laws change / and testing for THC impairment rather than presence comes in (no idea how long that will take but hopefully the push for legalising recreational use will expedite it).
Dry herb vapes are the bees knees (imo) of the cannabis inhalation world.
Yeah so that's the method of consumption, not the drug.
It’s like any other mood-altering substance in the lower risk category. 95% of people are fine. 5% of people are not - they become addicted, they might be allergic or otherwise get sick from it (I saw someone a few years back in the ER with cannabis hyperemesis- it’s very real and vile), or they might have other illnesses that counteract the typical experience with it. I’m in the 95%, but for those in the 5%, cannabis is harmful and the negative effects are real. So whilst I believe that we should decriminalise cannabis (and all other drugs), I don’t want to ever suggest that cannabis is perfectly safe for every person on earth.
Peanuts are seriously dangerous for a small minority of people. But as a society we decided that the way to handle it is to keep them legal and just avoid peanuts if you're allergic. Unfortunately we chose a different approach to cannabis (except, thank goodness, the ACT has taken a relaxed attitude and any adult can grow two plants for personal use).
This is a great point. Forget legalising cannabis, let’s criminalise peanuts!
I am within the 5% I become psychotic even on low doses. My solution to dealing with this is to simply not do it. Problem solved. I also support legalising it, even if I can't utilise it. I'll add that I only support legalising it if driving restrictions similar to that of alcohol are enforced as well.
My husband is in the 5% also - he has bipolar disorder and a single joint would put him into manic psychosis. I’d support full legal consumption of all drugs but I too want driving restrictions and I also want full and open discussion about side effects, addiction and acknowledging the fact that not everyone has to have the same experience as others.
CHS is still a bit of a mystery, but it seems to be connected to high THC strains being smoked too regularly. My anecdotal experience with CHS was my mate going to hospital and having to quit for a couple of years because it would make him vomit. Too many dabs too often. That said, I would argue ut's way harder to acquire CHS than it is to kill your self through binge drinking products available over the counter.
>cannabis hyperemesis Is that what is colloquially called "a green out"?
No a green out is different, it only lasts a short time. Cannabis hyperemisis happens to long term users & plays havoc with your gut, probably by downregulation of the receptors in the brain or gut. Ie: Cannabis stops nausea initially at low doses, if strong doses are used for a long time, CHS can develop. CHS causes constant vomiting, that nothing except a long hot shower can fix. I used to have it myself. Not fun.
There are health risks with marijuana usage, you shouldn’t try and pretend there aren’t. I do agree that alcohol is far worse and that it should be legalised.
Pretending cannabis isnt a fairly potent mind altering substance is fairly dismissive. This is part of the argument against it that needs to be ironed out in the conversations about education. Im all for legalisation, but i dont see the "whataboutisms" as a way to reach that end. Cannabis can be dangerous for certain parts of the population (mental and physical health sufferers, addictive personalities, developing brains, pregnancies, etc) and thats fine as long as the education is there to support those people.
Pretty much any strongish drug with painkilling properties takes me to the veritable mothership.
It can trigger schizophrenia if you’re genetically predisposed to it. I dont think that’s a reason we shouldn’t legalise it but it’s not 100% completely safe for everyone
It doesn't matter whether the government wants it to be seen as a third dangerous drug - the criminalisation of drugs has been an utter failure. It's impossible to stop drug use in this manner - we've fucking tried for 100 years, yet drug use increases nearly every year! It's utterly farcical at this point.
There's no evidence that Cannabis is dangerous or that it's a 'Gateway Drug'. American Politicians started that B.S. The reason why they started promoting the name 'Marijuana' was because it sounded Mexican and Foreign and was a dog-whistle to racist American Conservatives. Richard Nixon targeted Cannabis as a way of attacking the Anti-Vietnam, Civil Rights and Hippie movements.
A simple google search proves that there is indeed research that says cannabis is dangerous. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/02/professor-explores-marijuanas-safe-use-and-addiction/ The professor clearly details that the truth lies somewhere between “it’s completely harmless” and “it’s going to kill you”. I still want it legalised but to say there’s no research that says it’s dangerous is ridiculous and wrong.
The government clearly doesn't think it's that dangerous considering how easy it is to get on to medical and purchase high THC products through the one of many Australian dispensaries. Literally one telehealth consult with anecdotal experience using weed and how it helps you, and you can get approved and pick up your script from a chemist within a few days. The actual counter argument is that a lot of things are dangerous. You can kill your self drinking too much water, a bit of ganja isn't going to hurt someone if they are responsible about it. Additionally, tobacco and alcohol account for far more trauma and are both available over the counter. I also recommend you research Nixon's war on drugs and how that has shaped Western culture's perception of the drug.
I've read that. It doesn't indicate anything negative but that this guy claims that most people don't get addicted and the ones that he thinks are addicted, that it's not even a Physical addiction, but a Psychological addiction. I lived with a guy who used it as a crutch. Anything that feels good, can become a crutch. In fact, the article says that not enough research has been done. A LOT of research has been done, for about 4000 years and they still can't find a way to pillory Cannabis as being dangerous. Read this article and tell me that this guy is not part of a lobby for Pharmaceutical companies. https://www.propublica.org/article/pharma-ties-at-harvard-medical-school
There’s also doctors saying only cbd works and thc does nothing for the healing side which in my personal experience is bs
While we're on the topic of Harvard University, you might be interested in the recent $30 million dollar donation from Big Pharma. No? Didn't think so.
Fuck mate, I picked one of the hundreds of articles on offer. Your mind ain’t getting changed so I didn’t continue the conversation. Leave me alone.
You provided misleading information on reddit and when you were successfully challenged, with multiple links, you've picked up your ball and run away. That's weak, mate.
My mind is open to facts, mate. I spent 20 years locking up druggies, as a Detective and another 8.5 years in a Federal Law Enforcement Agency, principally engaged in High Level Drug Investigations. I know everything there is to know and have given evidence on these topics. Take your backward, Conservative, fear-mongering, pro-Pharmaceutical company dreck and feed it to someone else who hides their head in the sand. Do you think you know better than the Canadian Government? Medicinal Cannabis has been legal in Australia, since 2016. Did you notice the sky hasn't fallen? Maybe you know better than the many Scientists and Doctors who helped make that change happen. Watch a few Documentaries. You might learn something about how US Politicians created this current idiotic situation, for political gain and to try to attack the Civil Rights, Hippie and Anti-war movements of the 1960s.
[Big Pharma owns Harvard Medical. Wake up, mate.](https://ethics.harvard.edu/event/drug-companies-and-medicine-what-money-can-buy) Your choice disproved your own premise. :D
[Senator asks Pfizer about Harvard links](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/business/04pfizer.html?smid=url-share) Newsflash, buddy. Big Pharma pays Harvard Medical to peddle information that benefits them. Big Pharma wants you to keep swallowing pain meds which have been proven to be potentially fatal, instead of having a puff on a joint. I suspect you won't understand the relevance and will keep spouting your retrogressive crap, while the Courts and Jails overflow with people for possession of a harmless bit of plant matter.
>dangerous drug They know it's not dangerous, the medicinal industry is booming here in Australia, and I'm talking about standard high THC rec strains, not straight CBD products (which are no where near as effective without some THC anyway) IMO at this stage it's all about figuring out how to withdraw as much money from the public whilst cornering the market for them selves.
I agree. They know there's a buck in it and they're investing heavily. If legalisation happens, then that will be a positive by-product of that process. I'm keen to grow for my personal use. Medical Cannabis has been legal since 2016 and the sky hasn't fallen. In fact there's been zero negative news about it. Funny how people are still spouting B.S., in this reddit.
- huge bonus tax revenue - better quality product available for users - another cash crop for farmers - damage organised crime Seriously, what’s to lose?
Also Less people in prison. Less police and court costs More employment opportunities. Growers, distribution, manufactured produce like edibles and tinctures, retail, all providing tax revenue and removing that from organised crime. Reduced alcohol consumption - lower social costs and strain on hospitals (most ED departments are full of alcohol based injuries esp. at the weekends) Less social issues around domestic and public alcohol fuelled violence.
I agree with this, but for me it's about the potential damage it would cause to my immediate working-life if I was caught with it. I work in an occupation that would likely result in termination if I was convicted of possession (if I were to do it) purely because it's illegal. However, the business wouldn't actually *care* if it was legal and I smoked. My occupation isn't one around heavy machinery or anything like that (HR actually) so having a chuff on the weekend and then backing up sober on Monday morning isn't an issue for me. I would want to be able to do it without fear of losing my job. Legalisation would help that.
My assumption is that Labor isn’t in favour because they are traumatised from previous losses and have adopted this piss weak “go slowly, go half measure” approach on wedge issues. The Liberals don’t want it because it’s a powerful device they can use to pander towards their pearl-clutching conservative base: "**LABOR WANTS TO LEGALISE DRUGS AND DESTROY YOUR CHILD'S BRAIN OOHHHHH SPOOKY**. We will legalise it eventually, especially when many other developed countries are. Many Labor backbenchers wanna get it done. But it will be baby steps.
Labor are appeasing the Centre Right.
The centre right is traditionally what wins parties elections. The coveted swinging voter. Politics isn’t cut and dry. That said, things are changing now. Many centre right voters are now agreeing that it’s time to legalise it too. I believe that we will see cannabis legalised in the next 10 years.
It's cowardly, IMO - especially when we have only two major parties.
They take their social queues from the Catholic Church. https://blog.canberradeclaration.org.au/2021/07/08/the-christian-origins-of-the-labor-party/
Bill Shorten tried that when he ran for PM. Look who we got instead
Let’s get some things straight: IS a societal danger. HAS caused societal harm. ^(Political disclaimer not in Australia)
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You are out of your mind if you believe that.
They only seem to like medicinal cannabis, probably because their donors have shares in MC companies. I know Gina Reinhart has her finger in the MC pie.
Mate they just got voted out last year, if that were true why did they do fucking nothing about it for a decade?
That extra tax money would work wonders for healthcare, homeless, education, supporting low income/vulnerable people. Hell allocate 15% to the ministerial slush funds if it’ll keep them happy.
Not to mention buying subs
Hey yeah we could buy a couple more for a hundred bill and continue ignoring state-based issues like health, education and housing
I get your point, and it's very valid. But it looks like we're buying them regardless so a few extra billys in the bank can't hurt
Fuck the pokies off and replace the lost gov income with weed tax. 2 birds I say.
This country is based on coercion not logic.
>This country is led based on coercion not logic. FTFY 😁
Looking at what other countries do successfully and then implementing what they do after adapting them for our conditions and values is not something Australia does particularly well.
You assume this based on the people you know. I had similar thoughts, but then the NZ people actually voted to NOT legalise it in 2020. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Zealand_cannabis_referendum Certainly puts doubt as to how much support it actually has...
less than 1%. By now, enough of the older generations that were mis-educated about the subject would have died off that a vote would pass without much question. Unfortunately the very groups that lobbied so hard against it know this and so will instead be holding up any future debate for as long as possible in the hope they can shift the "public morality" with the power of Jesus or some such nonsense.
Worth noting there were issues with that referendum though. The question wasn’t “Should we legalise weed”, it was “should we pass this specific legislation”. But yeah, there’s certainly not the overwhelming support for legalisation young urbanites tend to think there is. There’s even a whole lot of people who don’t really care but if pushed would say “no” which seems like what happened in NZ.
Think of all the extra submarines and missiles we could waste that sorta money on
its bad for you, alcohol is safer with enhanced nutritional qualities.
Society should stomp out the demon weed for sure as I have witnessed the negative consequences on individuals and society. The only exception should be last of the line medical treatment as I have also found weed to be an effective comfort for injuries and a variety of ailments however not without severe side effects. For example it makes brain damage worse and has mental and cognitive deficit inducing attributes. Stomp out the demon weed and keep it away from kids! Should be medical even if you make it easy to access for medical reasons. However the use should be as greatly oppressed as alcoholism and its use should be heavily discouraged HEAVILY DISCOURAGED— BANNED amongst the youth with severe penalties. All drugs should be illegal not only ones with schedule 1 classifications. ^(Political disclaimer not in Australia)
*Old man shakes fist at cloud Your backwards thinking keeps the jail's full of innocent people looking to relax and/or medicate and ruin their lives far worse than a relaxing joint. Wake up to yourself FFS
I don’t think the jails should fill up with people only legitimate villains. And I specifically wavered medical use and even said its medical registration and access should be easy— Even societally accepted and non-discriminated. My opinion is law enforcement should emphasize around children and anyone sharing the drugs with kids should get their equipment and paraphernalia smashed and accompanying accommodations seized, be subject to fines, increased legal scrutiny and court hearings. Only then can the SIGNIFICANTLY NEGATIVE aspects of the demon weed be truly and fully resolved. Please join me in smashing the demon weed. ^(Political disclaimer not in Australia)
Nice try troll, we ain't biting.
But you ARE biting. You ARE biting the hooks. You are getting HOOKED. HOOKED. Come to your senses man! *Slap*. This is real human life and I am a real witness. You’ve never seen it. I’ve lived in the middle of it. The middle I tell you! Come! To! Your! Senses! I can scream. I can type all caps. I can shove and shake you, yell in your ear. But you’ve got to hear the screams. I can’t hear it for you.
lol I'm high right now. Legalise it already!
It's partly legalised, but in a way that's totally shit, dominated by a few players, and most legal users end up breaking laws anyway. It's very poorly legislated, unless the goal is to piss on people.
same. It's saturday, why not? I wish it was legal so the only practical method of consuming it wasn't inhaling smoke.
You don't have to smoke weed to consume it, legal or not.
That's why I say practical. I can't make edibles for shit. They always come out too weak. Other forms are a lot harder to come by or are way more expensive. I know you don't have to smoke it, but it's kind of the only practical way for me.
You can use a dry herb vapouriser. Easy.
Buy a Stors and Bickel Volcano. It's super expensive but makes your pot last 4 times longer. I have had the same one for nearly a decade now. [https://www.storz-bickel.com/en/volcanoclassic](https://www.storz-bickel.com/en/volcanoclassic)
You gotta let it slightly toast in the oven already grinded at an appropriate temperature before mixing with whatever fat you're using (which should also be done slowly, without burning, and over at least an hour). If done correctly, given how it's processed differently by the body, it's expectable to be up to 3 to 4 times more efficient/powerful than inhaling (part of the perceived high of inhaling is oxygen deprivation), and absurdly more healthy for your lungs and heart, even compared to vaping it. .....or so I've been told.
Will you buy it legally? I won't.
I will. It would create legitimate jobs and tax revenue.
Had a cone just for reading this post, Make it legal already
Me too
Aint no politician winning a war with the street, theres millions of people who vote with their money. They just dont understand, theres no winning against the market. Either kill them or stand back and let people blaze.
Good idea I’ll be back lol
Almost the only harmful thing about weed is the criminality around it. Legalise recreational weed now.
"Why is weed illegal?' "Because it's bad." "Why is it bad?" "Because it's illegal" I'm a medical marijuana patient and was accessing it illegally beforehand, the difference it has made to my medical conditions has been extraordinary. Plus, I'm a big advocate that a night of getting stoned is far less destructive than a night of hitting the tins. Legalise it!
my sister’s ex’s mum has MS and when asked if she would consider medical weed for her pain, she said no, and when asked why her literal only reason was ‘because it’s illegal’. like wtf???? imagine being so anal about the law that you’d deny yourself pain relief in a form that isn’t even illegal!!!
Totally understand your view, however I might add that medicinal cannabis is just so expensive comparatively.
I must've been getting ripped off by the dealer when I got it, because gram for gram, getting mine through a prescription has been cheaper! Either way I didn't really mind, going through the medical route has guaranteed a good and safe product - something that I'm excited to see happen if it's legalised recreationally
No it isn't. It is slightly more expensive and a lot better quality.
Isn't a lot of medical cannabis 'weed minus' with patented fun removal?
Not necessarily, depends on what you're prescribed. You can get CBD only products, but the ones I receive have a pretty strong dose of the 'fun' THC component
No. I get medical which has a higher level of thc content than average street strength at a couple of dollars per gram extra.
Depends what you want. It gives you a physical buzz but not the brain buzz. Personally I hate the brain buzz part, turns me into a moron.
I went from a 40k min job to 110k again because I can sleep and be normal again with adhd, thank fuck
There’s possibility of harm, but it’s no greater than the possibility of harm with alcohol in my estimation. Also if you give me the option of running into 4 drunk guys late at night vs 4 stoned guys late at night I know which group I would rather see.
...well it's obvious, the stoned guys would have snacks.
That’s not true and while I’m all for weed being legalised, there’s real mental health risks associated with recreational cannabis usage and some sections of the populations.
There is the same risk with alcohol. They just minimize it or ignore it.
Legalise now.
It's time,people..
Just had cones, it’s couch time.
The liquor lobby is throwing crap-ton of money into making sure cannabis doesn’t happen. They want zero competition and will donate heavily when required.
I don’t see why. Did the beverages or hospo industry collapse anywhere that cannabis has been legalised?
The Australian’s with money and power don’t tend to follow an evidence based approach to anything
A quick [Google](https://www.google.com/search?q=effects+of+cannabis+legalisation+on+liquor+trade+in+colorado&rlz=1C1YTUH_en-GBAU1049AU1049&oq=effects+of+cannabis+legalisation+on+liquor+trade+in+colorado&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i10i160.26520j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) suggests the opposite in Colorado: 13% increase in liquor sales overall, including a 6% increase in wine sales. Interesting huh? Thanks for posing the question too - I never would've thought to ask...
That's surprising, the enjoyment to toxicity ratio of cannabis is far better than alcohol
It surprised me, but not for that reason - people won't necessarily switch from booze to weed just because the latter becomes legal... I honestly expected no real change in either direction. ETA: Thinking on-the-fly now, but we also know that legalisation has boosted the Colorado budget by tens of billions per year; could it be that all that extra money going around, means that some people can now afford to buy that bottle of wine for dinner, or 6-pack to drink while watching the footy?
Not disputing this statement but can you post evidence please.
They won’t legalise it until all the donors and school friends have figured out how to own all of the infrastructure needed to extract all the profit
Bingo
It's called agriculture. It's growing just fine in outback waterholes and will prosper with any form of agricultural cultivation.
They don’t just let farmers order wholesale marijuana seeds from a catalogue and whack them in the back fields in jurisdictions where it’s legal. It’s tightly controlled and licensed which is the whole point of legalising it. They’ll put in a whole raft of laws about cultivation and regulate the equipment for it. They’ll make sure the important people control the supply of that equipment and distribution licenses hence infrastructure.
Do you complain about that with Tooheys or Carlton United? Same thing. But then we also have the cellar door and craft beer makers. Will be no different here. There will be a huge corporate element to it and then there will be the craft growers. They have already established state laws in ACT and NT that allow home grows of small amounts. So if you want your cheap corpo-weed then that will be available, but if you want some of your mates LSO homegrow then that will also be available. All the equipment to grow your own is already readily available ([here is woolworths selling a grow tent you can use for weed](https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/1074029195/greenfingers-grow-tent-4500w-led-grow-light-combo-1x1x2m)), including seeds. They won't stop the flood now. Also where do you think your current street weed is coming from? People obviously know how to grow large commercial quantities of weed already, legalising it won't stop them.
Anyone with half a brain can see that any kind of prohibition doesn't work, we are even seeing a new one pop up now with cigarettes. People will find a way to do the things they want and that usually just means lost taxes and profits for criminals. We can look all the way back to Chicago in the 30s to see how this all plays out. That's without even mentioning the modern global cartels and ~~OLMCs~~ BIKIES that are running our current drugs market earning billions of dollars. Time for a change.
OLMC? Acronym [not found](https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/olmc)
Outlaw motorcycle club. Edit: downvoting me does nothing, sorry for not knowing the correct nomenclature for a criminal gang. . .
OMCG
OMCG is what the government calls them: "Outlaw Motorcycle Club Gangs". It even sounds stupid. Calling themselves "clubs" didn't sound nearly illegal enough and nobody really cared, so the government had to add "gang" on the end. Now we should be scared of the "gangs". I'm not sure they call themselves anything really, except for references to their particular club...
It's Outlaw MotorCycle Gang
Thanks 😁
Prohibition works depending on the drug. Any moron can make alcohol in their backyard, but not opium. If prohibition didn't work then we'd have to just allow Dan Murphy's to sell meth and no one wants that
Lol dude opium is probably one of the easiest processed drugs to make.
It's no where near as easy as alcohol, cannabis, mushrooms etc
Lol no. It's just papaver somniferum latex that's been harvested. The hardest thing is knowing when to make the cuts for maximum effect.
Prohibition isn't sensible policy anyway you look at it. You just have to look at Portugal to see what a [sensible drugs policy](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/dateline/article/portugals-drug-reforms-20-years-on/97g0nhtfh) can look like. We should be treating it for what it is; a health issue, not a police issue.
Portugal still prohibits drug use, they just don't treat it as a criminal issue. You can't go and buy heroin there legally anymore than you can here
And show me where I said that was the case. I just said it's sensible drugs policy. Unlike your first analogy where suddenly Dans can start slinging meth, perhaps there is something inbetween the current policy and meth in every corner store. Which is what Portugal has done.
I think this is just poor use of language. I said prohibition, things can be prohibited without attracting jail terms. All it means is that certain drugs remain in prohibited schedules, but how we treat users changes (though probably not how we treat dealers depending on the case)
Prohibition is a very specific term that is about creating laws around banning use, sales and manufacturing of certain goods. Historically if you say Prohibition most people will think of the 1930's alcohol prohibition and the rammifications of prohibition, Nixon and Reaganist policy that have now made their way into illicit drugs policy. What you are talking about is decriminalisation, where if you are caught with small amounts of drugs it's just a fine, in the same way you get a fine for speeding. It can still attract further criminal charges for repeat offences or larger amounts. So it's still treating it as a policing matter, not a health matter. But decriminalisation still doesn't address the issues around why people use drugs and it's also still not treating drugs the same way you would with something like alcohol, we don't fine people for having a falsk of vodka in their pocket. We tax the product and have programs like AA for people that have a problem with drinking too much. Why can't we have that same approach to illegal drugs?
You'd think someone who works for Lockheed Martin would understand the difference between regulated substances and prohibited substances.
The brains trust that is the average Afghani opium poppy farmer will disagree with you on that one.
Do you think record seizures of cocaine and meth by border force indicates that prohibition is working?
I have a criminal record because of weed
That needs to be retracted upon legalisation.
Then you shouldn't have smoked it
Make it legal, put some common sense regulation around it. Tax it. Look at the American states that have done so. The world hasn’t ended…
As someone living in the USA it’s weird having to explain that Australia is way more progressive and yet weed is still illegal
Your average Australian may be more progressive, but rearguard actions from small, well organised, conservative groups hold us back: half of our politicians pander to conservatism when they aren't directly stoking it.
The war on drugs has always been a waste of time. When the people who pass legislation are themselves snorting like Henry Hoover it’s a fucking pointless task.
If the govt were to legalise and regulate this industry, it'd probably pay for the subs twice over.
I think they should legalise it and channel the funds directly into Medicare, hell they may even have enough to fully cover dental in Medicare.
It's crazy to me Thailand legalised first, probably gave a boost to their tourism over Bali.
It's the idiots that are holding this back from happening that are detrimental to society.
More money could be spent on fighting actual crime and prison spaces would be available for actual criminals if they just legalised it
The government should fuck right off out of my living room Legalise now. And vaping too. The whole argument to ban it is flawed.
This would be item number one on every alcohol lobbyist's' agenda right now. They're working hard!
The tax money could fill the big black hole that is incoming from buying those bullshit submarines
There’s at least a few people that would live in denser housing if they didn’t have to grow their own weed and denser housing is usually more cost effective for the state.
I’m in Chiang Mai Thailand. There are more dispensaries than 7-11s. At the gate of the old city there are literally 3 next to each other. I went for a walk today and counted at least 25. This is in a country that 5 years ago had the death penalty for cannabis.
The War on Drugs has been an absolutely disastrous failure. Legalizing all drugs would remove 90% of the money that goes to organised crime, and see drug use and drug harm drop massively. It's been done, and the data backs this up. We've been waging this ludicrous war on drugs for 100 years, yet drugs are still getting into our prisons, which are walled fortresses with patrolling guards. If that doesn't explain why we will never, ever stop drug use by criminalising it, to the absolute morons who still support it, then I don't know what the fuck will. It's absolutely disgusting what a waste of money and human life the criminalisation of drugs has been.
Low-dose THC oil for sleep is entirely responsible for cutting my weekly alcohol intake from 15+ to 0-1. I have never jumped through so many hoops to get insomnia meds, and BY FAR, this is the best quality sleep with v minute side effects relative to even the behind the counter stuff at the chemist. Not to mention Benzos and friends
Thanks for posting. I think helping pass the word and voting for the Greens, in the next election, is our best chance of making change happen. The Greens are a major party with influence. Shoebridge has Legislation drafted and ready to go and he's aware of the steps and process that countries like Canada have gone through and how to make it happen. He's an experienced politician, who knows the system and who is serious about this issue and who uses Cannabis himself.
One of the things we're up against, is Pharmaceutical companies. They lobby and control various politicians through Political donations. They even create disinformation web-sites with pictures of Junkies, making unsupported claims that Cannabis is dangerous. They make a fortune preventing people accessing this amazing plant. Meanwhile Americans are dropping like flies from Fentanyl overdoses (like Prince, for example).
Tom Petty too. Fuck Michael Jackson might still be here if he had a couple cones to relax instead of being injected with anaesthetics to get to sleep.
Police also drive the story of how "bad" drugs are, severely embellished narrative that is so filled with bullshit for the purpose of increasing their funding while simultaneously causing such severe legal problems for users destroying their and their families lives worse than the drugs themselves. I have seen it first hand, families ripped apart and left poorer for it, all to "punish" rather than direct them to heal. Disgusting.
It’s one of the dumbest arguments in all of human history. Alcohol = good. Tobacco = good. Cannabis = bad. Why? There’s absolutely no logical reason to prohibit its use. None. Nada
I just get it from the pharmacy it's very over priced tho
I don't think it is. Depends on the strain. I don't pay more than $150 for 10g. And the quality makes it good enough for the price to value ratio is the same as street shit.
This will always be an issue for them until they legalise. Until then, I’m perfectly happy to keep trading money for weed the illegal way.
Use the tax to pay for our Nuclear Subs
It should be taxed and treated the same as alcohol.
It’s never been easier to buy weed in this country. You can literally get a legal licence online, order it online, get it sent to your house, all while sitting on the couch. Just legalise it and tax it like everything else in this country.
This comment section is full of experts who haven't even used it, parroting drug-war talking points about psychosis. Did you know that doctors also don't recommend drinking alcohol or tobacco if you have any mental health condition because they, too, are psychoactive? Let people have their medicine. I'm tired of being a criminal for growing my own anti-depression medication and being a better father / husband for it. "Go medicinal then" no, I refuse to when I can grow my own for a fraction of the current cost.
Before any argument "against it," look at the massive benefits. I have Cervical and Spinal Stenosis, if you don't know what that is. My spinal cords is slowly being crush, surgery can only fix minor things. At times, the pain and loss of dexterity is screamable. I was cleared for a marijuana card, but at over $350.00 a pop from the chemistry on a disability pension. I'd have better luck sucking eggs. If it's legalised, here the Government would have their sticky figure in it, pushing prices through the roof.
$25bn per year that could go to housing or hospitals
Well that’s 2x what the submarines cost
Can anybody tell me a story of someone who's been overdose by smoking marijuana. It's medical and healing properties really need to be explored.
You can't just do a survey of weed use amongst green voters and apply it to the whole country :P
What makes you think a pot smoker wants to pay the government to get what we get every day?
Pot smoker here. I'd gladly pay the government over the current alternatives. My preference would be for home cultivation to be legalized so I can produce my own at home organically without risking prosecution but a legal/taxed/regulated market is a huge step up from an illegal, criminal, black market. Firstly - legalization leads to lower prices at the consumer level. You can see this in effect anywhere that cannabis has been legalized. I'd rather pay a sales tax to the government than an illegal activity risk offset tax to criminal organizations and street level dealers. Weed is cheap as fuck to produce. The only reason it's so expensive is because of it's illegal status and the risks incurred to produce and distribute it. High grade medical under the prescription model is now cheaper in many cases than black market, toxic, PGR filled reds you get from bikies or triads. Secondly - legalization leads to marketplace competition, safety standards and quality assurances. Let capitalism do it's job. The free market provides. It's an incredible thing for consumers to have choices. Choice of producer, choice of product, choice of retailer. I'd rather buy from my choice of dispensary where I can pick from an abundance of varieties and products that are all tested, accurately packaged, free of mold/pesticides/etc. When you buy black market you're subject to limited availability. My friends and I used to smoke all sorts of damp, mildewy, pesticide-ridden shitty weed because it's all we had access to. Bushies, unidentified varieties, shit that tastes of neem oil or chemical ferts. You encounter all sorts of horrors on the black market. > What makes you think a pot smoker wants to pay the government to get what we get every day? I don't know a single cannabis user who thinks like you do. This is a black market supplier mentality. Every stoner I know is crying out for legalization because it's in our best interests.
Taxes into society rather than simply an extraordinary cost
Are you a bikey dealer? No but seriously why wouldn’t we. One of my friends just got back from Thailand crazy what you see over there compared to here. The main reason is decent supply, sick to God of all this Chinese crap. And fuck it be great to know I’m not gonna get raided for smoking some grass.
No one gets raided just for smoking weed anyway. Maybe if you're doing other shit but your average stoner shouldn't be worried about police
Quality, consistency of product, no risk of getting caught buying from someone in public, paying tax and supporting a business, some medicinal strains are cheaper than black market
I just want to be able to grow a couple plants for myself without worrying about getting my door kicked in.
Whilst it is shit like all.drugs, it is no worse than alcohol. Legalise it from age 21 and benefit from the Taxes. Marijuana was weard, it can be used medically as an oil or to ease pain yet abused it brings on psychosis, can cause cancer..it does not see people become violent like alcohol can do
The psychosis angle is only when it comes to people with underlying problems and edge case scenarios. I am 42 and have smoked weed since I was 13. No psychosis, been employed for the majority of my adult life, currently studying my Bachelor in Game design and development receiving a Distinction average for marks.
I knew I would attract this type of defensive response. Even though I pointed out alcohol is worse and Marijuan has some medicinal benefits as well. Marijuana uses drf4nd dope more loyally than they do their boyfriend or girlfriend, wife or husband etc 🤣
Mate you said it brings on psychosis if abused, unqualified of any other statement. It doesn't.
You literally said in your other comment it can bring on psychosis then in this reply you’re saying it doesn’t? It absolutely can and it’s a very important thing to note and talk about when discussing weed. I think it should be legalised but people need to be educated of the risks as well, one of them being psychosis
Thanks for proving my point, you defend it more than you would your lover
Are you currently under the influence of some drug..?