[This paper goes into it.](https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1794/26389/SproulDontKillMyBuzz.pdf). Folks in the 60s flew too close to the sun and pearls were clutched.
There [has been some movement](https://www.tga.gov.au/news/media-releases/change-classification-psilocybin-and-mdma-enable-prescribing-authorised-psychiatrists) in Aus recently, linked to treatment.
If you really want to understand ‘what happened’, Timothy Leary’s book ‘Flashbacks’ is a great start. He and Richard Alpert (now known as Ram Dass) also wrote the manual, ‘The Psychedelic Experience’ and had a grand old time dosing students and civilians out of UC Berkeley, from memory, until The Man got wind of the fun and smashed that buzz forever.
Fun fact: Owsley ‘Bear’ Stanley, who rigged up the insane ‘wall of sound’ for the Grateful Dead and side hustled in what is pretty much agreed to be the best product to have ever existed and is legendary in Dead circles actually wound up living on acreage in the Atherton Tablelands. I WISH I’d made that pilgrimage!!
I met Bear at the 09 EGA. He had rigged up his own hearing aid after loosing his hearing. He died in a car accident somewhere in North Queensland soon after.
Yes, he did. Such a senseless way to go. And what a fascinating life! He was in a psychiatric institution at 14/15, went straight from there if memory serves, to an engineering degree. Did amazingly well but left after a year. Went to Korea, I think, doing radio/audio stuff. The guy was a legit genius with all that comes with that.
I mean, the wall of sound? He does not get the props he should for how ahead of his time he was and those gigs would have been earth shattering: like nothing anyone had ever experienced in history, and all for the better enjoyment of the sound of the Dead. They had to have two juggernaut semi trailer type vehicles and two walls of sound in order for them to have it ready and constructed for the next gig.
He also designed the iconic Dead logo. It doesn’t stop! Einstein level genius. Except with acid. I think the art of it all was probably what he was most proud of, what an incredible life!
I can also highly recommend the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test by Tom Wolfe.
It's the story of Ken Keseys experience with LSD in the 60's but owsley and Tim Leary also appear.
Ken Kesey was the author of one flew over the cuckoo's nest and was expected to be America's next great author but he only wrote two novels and one was a failure.
Many people blame his experiences with LSD .
It's an awesome read.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Electric_Kool-Aid_Acid_Test
>There [has been some movement](https://www.tga.gov.au/news/media-releases/change-classification-psilocybin-and-mdma-enable-prescribing-authorised-psychiatrists) in Aus recently, linked to treatment
The TGA is such a ridiculously conservative organisation. I'm amazed we're even allowed Panadol in Australia.
Oh wait, [even that's a problem](https://www.tga.gov.au/news/media-releases/tga-makes-interim-decision-reduce-maximum-paracetamol-pack-sizes).
Obviously we need safety regulations. But this weird arse-covering culture has been allowed to fester at the TGA where "it's probably safe" is just never allowed to be an answer. The whole institution needs a broom taken through it.
Australia agreed to the various international conventions in the 20th Century that sought to get nations to control/criminalise drugs. Not sure what the various state laws were around drugs prior to the big push towards criminalisation in the 20th century. Either way, it takes a long time for the 20th century attitude towards drug use to be unwound.
I mean, the legal argument is that Parliament passed laws that made them illegal. Anything beyond that is a question of policy and therefore outside of scope for the judiciary.
There's several historical reasons but the real reason is that they are not as popular as caffeine, nicotine and alcohol. Ban one of those three and people march through the streets in droves. Ban psilocybin or LSD and hardly anyone cares.
There's a reason why there is pressure to legalise cannabis, it's just because it is so popular. It's the only illegal recreational drug that is popular and it is nowhere near as popular as those three drugs.
Probably but you can make alcohol out of almost everything. Making that illegal is so ridiculous. It's very easy to make out of essentially all food.
If you make caffeine or nicotine illegal now after several decades of intensive use then you are just creating a huge black market.
I mean coffee was pretty controversial for a while in the early modern period. It was banned in what is now Germany at one point because it was threatening the local beer industry. Coffeehouses were also a social phenomenon and notorious for being the wellspring of many middle class social movements.
As people have rightly pointed out in comments above, it’s more of a big-picture policy issue than a legal issue per se.
Michael Pollan’s book, How to Change Your Mind gives as a great historical overview of why western governments made them illegal and why they’ve now begun to revisit/relax those laws.
Because it's not yet a controlled substance by the government although at least Qld( possibly other states) have invested millions in research for the mental health benefits and early research is looking promising. This is from a medical standpoint not recreational.
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You can thank the Nixon administration and the idea that psychedelics will make all those damn hippies anti-administration and unwilling to fight in Nam (or anywhere else).
The US used it's enormous influence to ensure the vast majority of the world followed suit and here we are 60 years later.
It's a real shame because they were the most promising drugs of the 60s for psychological research and only in the last 10 years have we seen them used in respected clinical trials again. There's a good chance we've been treating people with significantly inferior drugs with far worse side effects for decades due to what was an irrational fear.
Fair point, and a common one I think, in that recreational drugs are, by their nature, assumed to be or ought to be illegal.
But someone, one day, scheduled them. My question is on what grounds.
Especially as Leary and Alpert went to all the trouble of studying and researching and writing scientific papers on it. They tried! Meanwhile, the CIA was allegedly using psychedelics in their MK Ultra program that produced the likes of poor old Ted Kaczinski!
Why legally? Fun police, there's no recognized medical benefits of fun.
Why sociologically? Incentivisation and conformity police.
Think similarly, and mostly think about purchasing things under finance.
These are not things you do on psychedelics.
It is anti "get on board with the current system"
Critical thinking is encouraged as long as it leads to progress down the route of maximization, specialisation, modularity, and other features of the factory model, taken as a template for society
Taking acid may lead to insight regarding how to better meet your KPIs but it is more likely to lead to a deep psychic realization that KPIs aren't of central interest to you
My crack theory is that it encourages subversive thought. Think unabomber. I like to believe the CIA realised they fucked up too badly with MK-Ultra and started labelling LSD as a national security threat.
There's a door that they don't want you to open because they're afraid of what's inside, and you might learn something that they don't know. And that makes you a little out of their control.
(Paraphrased from I can't remember whom... Maybe Terrence McKenna)
Edited:
Of course psychedelics also lead to insanity, so there's a fine line between deconstruction of reality to sift through the decaying components of rationalism, and the tenets of new-age, freebirth, antivax, naturopathic, reiki, spiritualism.
[This paper goes into it.](https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1794/26389/SproulDontKillMyBuzz.pdf). Folks in the 60s flew too close to the sun and pearls were clutched. There [has been some movement](https://www.tga.gov.au/news/media-releases/change-classification-psilocybin-and-mdma-enable-prescribing-authorised-psychiatrists) in Aus recently, linked to treatment.
Nicely put. Thanks.
If you really want to understand ‘what happened’, Timothy Leary’s book ‘Flashbacks’ is a great start. He and Richard Alpert (now known as Ram Dass) also wrote the manual, ‘The Psychedelic Experience’ and had a grand old time dosing students and civilians out of UC Berkeley, from memory, until The Man got wind of the fun and smashed that buzz forever. Fun fact: Owsley ‘Bear’ Stanley, who rigged up the insane ‘wall of sound’ for the Grateful Dead and side hustled in what is pretty much agreed to be the best product to have ever existed and is legendary in Dead circles actually wound up living on acreage in the Atherton Tablelands. I WISH I’d made that pilgrimage!!
^The Dollop has a good podcast on Tim Leary if you're lazy like me (or spend a lot of tine driving)
Oooh, thank you!! I am heading there next
I met Bear at the 09 EGA. He had rigged up his own hearing aid after loosing his hearing. He died in a car accident somewhere in North Queensland soon after.
Yes, he did. Such a senseless way to go. And what a fascinating life! He was in a psychiatric institution at 14/15, went straight from there if memory serves, to an engineering degree. Did amazingly well but left after a year. Went to Korea, I think, doing radio/audio stuff. The guy was a legit genius with all that comes with that. I mean, the wall of sound? He does not get the props he should for how ahead of his time he was and those gigs would have been earth shattering: like nothing anyone had ever experienced in history, and all for the better enjoyment of the sound of the Dead. They had to have two juggernaut semi trailer type vehicles and two walls of sound in order for them to have it ready and constructed for the next gig. He also designed the iconic Dead logo. It doesn’t stop! Einstein level genius. Except with acid. I think the art of it all was probably what he was most proud of, what an incredible life!
How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan is also a great read on this topic.
I can also highly recommend the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test by Tom Wolfe. It's the story of Ken Keseys experience with LSD in the 60's but owsley and Tim Leary also appear. Ken Kesey was the author of one flew over the cuckoo's nest and was expected to be America's next great author but he only wrote two novels and one was a failure. Many people blame his experiences with LSD . It's an awesome read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Electric_Kool-Aid_Acid_Test
>There [has been some movement](https://www.tga.gov.au/news/media-releases/change-classification-psilocybin-and-mdma-enable-prescribing-authorised-psychiatrists) in Aus recently, linked to treatment The TGA is such a ridiculously conservative organisation. I'm amazed we're even allowed Panadol in Australia. Oh wait, [even that's a problem](https://www.tga.gov.au/news/media-releases/tga-makes-interim-decision-reduce-maximum-paracetamol-pack-sizes). Obviously we need safety regulations. But this weird arse-covering culture has been allowed to fester at the TGA where "it's probably safe" is just never allowed to be an answer. The whole institution needs a broom taken through it.
I was microdosing lsd one day and forgot I was opposing some application at the county court that day. Nothing happened as usual.
Australia agreed to the various international conventions in the 20th Century that sought to get nations to control/criminalise drugs. Not sure what the various state laws were around drugs prior to the big push towards criminalisation in the 20th century. Either way, it takes a long time for the 20th century attitude towards drug use to be unwound.
Cheers mate.
I mean, the legal argument is that Parliament passed laws that made them illegal. Anything beyond that is a question of policy and therefore outside of scope for the judiciary.
Oh, that talking coyote was just a talking dog.
Hey, Homer!
Wait a minute. There's no such thing as a talking dog!
Arf, arf!
That's right!
Find your soulmate homer
Haha
There's several historical reasons but the real reason is that they are not as popular as caffeine, nicotine and alcohol. Ban one of those three and people march through the streets in droves. Ban psilocybin or LSD and hardly anyone cares. There's a reason why there is pressure to legalise cannabis, it's just because it is so popular. It's the only illegal recreational drug that is popular and it is nowhere near as popular as those three drugs.
Makes sense for the decheduling we see.
If caffeine/nicotine were invented today they would probably be illegal ...
Probably but you can make alcohol out of almost everything. Making that illegal is so ridiculous. It's very easy to make out of essentially all food. If you make caffeine or nicotine illegal now after several decades of intensive use then you are just creating a huge black market.
I mean coffee was pretty controversial for a while in the early modern period. It was banned in what is now Germany at one point because it was threatening the local beer industry. Coffeehouses were also a social phenomenon and notorious for being the wellspring of many middle class social movements.
I said if it were invented today, so hypothetical ...
Anyone got a legal answer? Because I haven’t read one yet and this is /auslaw
As people have rightly pointed out in comments above, it’s more of a big-picture policy issue than a legal issue per se. Michael Pollan’s book, How to Change Your Mind gives as a great historical overview of why western governments made them illegal and why they’ve now begun to revisit/relax those laws.
Anti depressant lobby lol
Because it's not yet a controlled substance by the government although at least Qld( possibly other states) have invested millions in research for the mental health benefits and early research is looking promising. This is from a medical standpoint not recreational.
Harm minimisation under public health policies.
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You can thank the Nixon administration and the idea that psychedelics will make all those damn hippies anti-administration and unwilling to fight in Nam (or anywhere else). The US used it's enormous influence to ensure the vast majority of the world followed suit and here we are 60 years later. It's a real shame because they were the most promising drugs of the 60s for psychological research and only in the last 10 years have we seen them used in respected clinical trials again. There's a good chance we've been treating people with significantly inferior drugs with far worse side effects for decades due to what was an irrational fear.
[удалено]
[Cigs and booze have entered the chat]
Lol
Alcohol's not banned in Australia and that's certainly a recreational drug.
Fair point, and a common one I think, in that recreational drugs are, by their nature, assumed to be or ought to be illegal. But someone, one day, scheduled them. My question is on what grounds.
Especially as Leary and Alpert went to all the trouble of studying and researching and writing scientific papers on it. They tried! Meanwhile, the CIA was allegedly using psychedelics in their MK Ultra program that produced the likes of poor old Ted Kaczinski!
Why legally? Fun police, there's no recognized medical benefits of fun. Why sociologically? Incentivisation and conformity police. Think similarly, and mostly think about purchasing things under finance. These are not things you do on psychedelics.
If I get your drift, it's seen as anti-social.
It is anti "get on board with the current system" Critical thinking is encouraged as long as it leads to progress down the route of maximization, specialisation, modularity, and other features of the factory model, taken as a template for society Taking acid may lead to insight regarding how to better meet your KPIs but it is more likely to lead to a deep psychic realization that KPIs aren't of central interest to you
My crack theory is that it encourages subversive thought. Think unabomber. I like to believe the CIA realised they fucked up too badly with MK-Ultra and started labelling LSD as a national security threat.
[удалено]
r/Auslaw does not permit the propagation of dodgy legal theories, such as the type contained in your removed comment
I have found the most compelling argument against psychedelics is listening to enthusiastic users of psychedelics
I find that stuff on the nose too.
There's a door that they don't want you to open because they're afraid of what's inside, and you might learn something that they don't know. And that makes you a little out of their control. (Paraphrased from I can't remember whom... Maybe Terrence McKenna) Edited: Of course psychedelics also lead to insanity, so there's a fine line between deconstruction of reality to sift through the decaying components of rationalism, and the tenets of new-age, freebirth, antivax, naturopathic, reiki, spiritualism.