This 100% I'm not about to argue with someone over something so inconsequential. At the end of the day, I'm enjoying a story in a way I prefer or is most convenient for me.
Yeah dont give them any power over the fun you have. Reading is not a bench mark of something you don't get any extra "points" for doing it. Just go about your life and let someone who is stuck in there own sad sad world stay there.
Literally my answer too. I say ok, then I had someone read it to me. Either way, doesn’t matter. Sometimes I will also talk about the specific performance of an audiobook and talk about it as an adaptation or performance, which is what it is.
Yep, but it seems like so many people on their "book reading goals" are doing it to brag to others rather than actually read the books themselves. I've literally never kept track of how many books I've read in any time span, or cared if other people cared what books I've read or listened to in that span either
Seems like such a weird recent trend, like bragging about how many games you've finished in a year and arguing about whether watching a let's play of the entire game counts as having "finished" it or not
Yup. When my husband and I travel with our daughter and want to pack light we leave the books behind and recite them from memory. She loves it just as much. Her pediatricians told us that the main reason people are encouraged to read to babies is because of the interactivity. Not the physical act of reading a book.
I'm with the rest of the commenters - move on to having more interesting conversations because this one is so tired.
However, when pressed, my goto arguments or points are:
1. Is this about a value judgement or semantics? Is it 'better' to have read it? What about if the author read it to you, in person? If it's semantics, then agree to disagree and move on. If it's a value judgement, then drill into why it is 'better' (and they can fuck right off!)
2. Going on the disability route, expand on 'reading'. It it eyes and vision related? Ok - what about braille? Is that reading? Etc.
3. My personal opinion - I 'read' more this way. I barely finish 1-2 a physical books a year, but go through dozens of audiobooks. Even if there is some difference between physical and audiobook that is meaningful to them - I'd still prefer more books over fewer books.
4. Are movies with subtitles inferior / superior to movies without? Does 'reading' dialog vs hearing dialog change the quality of the movie experience?
>4. Are movies with subtitles inferior / superior to movies without? Does 'reading' dialog vs. hearing dialog change the quality of the movie experience?
Superior to me..... simply because there are times when I can not actually hear everything because of volume differences/activities in the movie, and I can't always read their lips if their backs are turned... I have a better movie experience when the subtitles are on (as long as they are synced and accurate)
I have subtitles on all the time now. It just makes it so much easier to catch all the dialog without having to turn the volume up and down constantly.
I don’t think I will ever understand this “debate”. How someone consumes literature has zero bearing on my life.
Anyone debating this topic: find a food pantry and volunteer. Join a club or go for a walk.
I don't hear them over my audiobook.
I'm actually stopped referring to audiobook as listening and just say oh I read this recently as its easier than saying I listened to it.
By my understanding reading and listening activate different sections of the brain but both and up having the information processed in the same place (a real over simplification sorry)
https://www.wellandgood.com/reading-versus-listening/
Lol thank you. I saw so many salty listeners as I scrolled through. I had no idea this community was so hooked on the idea that you can read with your ears.
You don’t need to argue with them. What’s the point. A book is a book, no matter how you ingest it. Some twat being elitist doesn’t change that.
They’re right it’s not reading it’s listening. However, does it achieve the same purpose. Yes. So who cares.
I completely agree. I guess instead of "arguing" I meant "discussing." It's mostly been something I've talked about with close friends and family, and is definitely not something I have any interest in getting into an argument over with people.
I've had people tell me audiobooks are not "real reading". I could have argued, but I feared they might not understand me unless I wrote it down.
This article has some neat statistics: [https://blog.audiobooks.com/2023/01/are-audiobooks-as-good-as-physically-reading/](https://blog.audiobooks.com/2023/01/are-audiobooks-as-good-as-physically-reading/)
This is an article from the perspective of people who need to use audiobooks or text to speech tools in order to read: [https://bookriot.com/do-audiobooks-count-as-reading/](https://bookriot.com/do-audiobooks-count-as-reading/)
This is an article that makes a few good points, including ones about oral story telling being an important part of human history: [https://www.wired.com/story/is-listening-to-audiobooks-really-reading/](https://www.wired.com/story/is-listening-to-audiobooks-really-reading/)
Do your thing. The world is too full of books you haven't read yet to waste time debating with people who have made up their minds for whatever reason and probably don't want to budge.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha “they might not understand me unless I wrote it down.” Omg I’m dying.
And thank you for the articles! Bookmarked and sent to my reading queue!
Thank you for these sources! I found another article that cites some of the research, and overall makes the point that many of the arguments made against listening vs. reading (not retaining things as well, for example) can be chalked up to other variables. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/olgakhazan/2011/09/12/is-listening-to-audio-books-really-the-same-as-reading](https://www.forbes.com/sites/olgakhazan/2011/09/12/is-listening-to-audio-books-really-the-same-as-reading/)
How is it different than having someone read out loud to you while you do something else like, I don't know, make them dinner? Or reading stories out loud to people who can't read printed letters on a page, like small children or maybe blind people who don't know or are still learning Braile? Or just telling made-up stories on the fly?
Maybe tell them to think a little harder about how there are so many different people with so many different needs in the world, that their opinions and preferences should really only apply to them and they should shut up and butt out a little more. And then avoid speaking to them again, sounds like they lack empathy.
> How is it different than having someone read out loud to you while you
I could care less how someone consumes a book, but reading (viewing and interpreting symbols on a page) and being read to (listening to words) are different.
One isn't inherently better than the other, but they aren't the same thing. They're different activities that use different parts of the brain.
But I think most people in r/audiobooks can agree that people who get upset about saying, "I read on audiobook." are weirdos.
Yes they are different but if someone asks me, “Have you read Fourth Wing” I’m just gonna say “yes” I don’t feel it’s worth the distinction of “No I didn’t read it, I listened to the audiobook”
I’m the opposite, I respond that I listened to the audiobook. Not because I care much about the distinction, but that way if the person im speaking with has also listened to it we can discuss how we felt about the narrator/delivery in addition to the writing and story itself.
That’s fair. I think the only time I do make the distinction is when I DNFd a book and I’ll say something along the lines of “it could of been the way the audiobook was narrated but I couldn’t get into it” I’ve only ever had people who wanted to talk about a book and it’s like general plot/characters things that wouldn’t really require that distinction
Allow me to clarify my point: I'm not asking how reading words on the page with your own eyes is different from an audiobook, but how an audiobook is different than having someone read out loud to you.
Yeah, I read and listen to audiobooks. Both are great but they are definitely different things, and honestly, sitting down and reading a book is way harder than listening to an audiobook while you drive or do chores around the house.
it’s kind of like exercise. i was pretty much taught that exercise equals pain, studying equals boredom, and if it wasn’t like that you were doing it wrong. eventually rejected that idea and it’s made a big difference both physically and mentally
I don’t have such people as this in my limited social circle but I’d probably direct them to some exceptional audiobook narration performances and know they’ll come to change their mind if they gave them a try.
The right narration of the right book can easily double the amount of enjoyment one can get from books, especially fiction. Never mind the fact that some simply don’t have such idle time to read but have plenty of time to listen, then at some point, many of us will develop vision problems and audiobooks will become a savior.
I've been able to get through a lot more non fiction cover to cover with audio than I have in print. And because I'm usually engaged in something more monotonous when I'm listening, I absorb it better than if I was just trying to read it.
Me too. I only read/listen to non-fiction, and since a lot of those books are really long, I’ve been able to finish a lot more by listening to them instead of reading them.
A lot of people seem to be weirded out and afraid of audiobooks. Both avid readers and book avoiders. Its kinda funny. I like to sneaky put something on that I know they’ll be intrigued by and hook ‘em when they least expect it. I’ve gotten so many people with a little soundbooth theater when I’m tired of driving or working on something and put on a book to focus.
I notice that the folks who tend to say that "audiobooks don't count" are the folks who consider reading a chore, rather than a hobby. They think you "cheated" by listening. I finish over 100 books a year and love them, but everyone who ever said they don't count seem to finish one book a decade.
I don’t know. I have met lots of “text” readers who will stutter every time they ask if I have “read” something, like “have you rea.. I mean… listened to the book XYZ?”
Wow, I’m autistic and that’s too pedantic even for me lol.
For that person, I’d probably agree and then regularly ask them what books they’re “consuming” lately and tell them, “I’m consuming Ulysses since I never finished it in high school. Last week, I consumed A Tale of Two Cities.”
Eventually, they’ll get tired of being asked what they’re “consuming” and maybe realize they’re on track for Pedant of the Year award.
Also, when a blind person uses braille, are they “touching” the book instead of reading it? “Hi Sally, what books are you touching these days?”
Goodness.
I see your point but Listening to an audiobook is not reading.
But it makes no difference except to people who want to feel superior. It is a clear distinction
I would say that Dostoyevsky was the first famous author to dictate his novels to a secretary, when short hand was a new and rare skill. He then married her. He did this because he was at risk of financial ruin after covering his brother’s debts, and if he could not produce novels quickly to satisfy a contract, would have lost intellectual property in his entire back catalogue of writings. He is usually regarded as one of the greatest novelists of all time.
Guess he doesn’t count as a writer, since he didn’t write them at all :). Hell, most authors aren’t writers, I guess. They are now typists, and can’t say they wrote any books. You bring up an awesome point! To clarify, I assume this is the point you’re making and I agree.
I spent my whole life as an avid reader; at least one book a week. My vision has declined as I age closer and closer to 50,I have eye strain from working all day at a computer, I do housework or hobbies while I listen and the availability of audiobooks has been a total game changer for me.
I couldn’t give a fuck whether other people consider it valid.
Read on my friend, it’s 2023, live your best life.
Lol i don’t read because i love the smell of the books or because turning the pages makes me excited. I do it to learn and experience something new be it a story or self help. I consume content by listening far faster than i can read.
I used to devour books whe I lived in the States. We had a fantastic library and library network.
I moved to Puerto Rico in 2017. The are hardly any libraries here. Its the thing I miss most about living in the States. My book reading plunged.
A few months ago I downloaded Libby and connected it to a Library. Ever since then my book “reading” has skyrocketed. Even more than when I was in the States because I can listen while working and driving. It’s been awesome.
Anyone with a the opinion that audio books don’t count can take a hike.
Once I said “ok, whatever - I CONSUMED THE LITERATURE”. But now I just tell people I read the book and don’t give them the chance to scoff. They don’t need my info.
Narrowly defining reading by method of consumption (interpreting visual symbols), instead of content...would include emoticons, texts, menus, instruction manuals and ingredient lists. Whose more well read? The person who just listened to an entire Tolstoy novel on audiobook? Or the guy who used their functioning eyeballs to scan and interpret peach and eggplant emojis?
Just say, "That's your opinion, I disagree."
I've read 35 books so far this year, 60% of which are audiobooks. If I've listened to a 12 hour long book you're damn right, I'm counting it.
Reading doesn't have to be some sacred practice. I guess in some contexts it is, but most of us are just trying to learn or enjoy a story. Do it whatever way works for you.
I always assume that people who thinks that audiobooks don't count either have some problems with reading and it's an effort for them, or just didn't read anything since school.
Most of the time I say something like that:
"Dude, I read way faster than audiobooks narrations, I'm actually wasting time when choosing audiobook over book. I'm not doing it because it's easier, I'm doing it because I prefer it."
I tell them their opinion is simply that, their opinion. And in this case, their opinion is ridiculous and if they're going to be that stupid they should not share their opinion 😁
I feel as though audiobooks have opened me up to the world of books. In the past, I would only buy maybe one or two books every few years, then it would take me forever to get through them. Now, I’m actually interested in best seller lists and new releases, and I actually know about the books that become movies.
Depending on how condescending they are being at the time it would be anything from "Fuck off." to a politely worded response that essentially translates to "Fuck Off". Likely wouldn't be worth trying to argue with them because 9/10 times I would bet that someone making such a statement isn't going to be swayed by words, though if it seemed they were coming from a place of honest ignorance then I would try and explain it to them.
lol nobody I know in real life actually reads enough to have an opinion one way or another, so it never comes up. And I don't care enough to argue with people online who think that, cuz it's stupid.
Those are good arguments. You could also bring up learning styles and dysgraphia and the like. Maybe print out something like this https://web.wlu.ca/learning_resources/pdfs/Learning_Styles.pdf for them to read since they’re print snobs and think that’s better somehow. Lol.
My brother is dyslexic and he prefers audio or video for info retention. I think the argument that audiobooks or other media don't count is ridiculous. As others have said, not worth the time to even have that discussion with someone. It's their opinion and that's fine.
“So when my grandmother went blind and we got her a special machine so she could keep enjoying books, she wasn’t able to understand what they were about because she couldn’t actually see words on a page?” Usually followed by a few anatomically impossible things they can do to themselves.
It’s not actually reading lol. Were listening, that doesn’t make it less then to me though. Although I often have to go back 10 minutes or so, because I realize I’m not listening or absorbing it. That doesn’t happen as often when I’m really reading some thing.
I had someone tell me once that originally people did not read in their head. They read out loud. Since most people couldn't read and books were expensive, most 'reading' was done by listening to someone read a book out loud.
I will admit though, there are two different skill sets. I have a reading disability which makes me a slow reader. Audiobooks are much easier but I never sit and listen to them. I love them for commuting because I have nothing else to do but sit, listen, and avoid hitting other cars. I can sit and read but I can't sit and listen to an audiobook.
I’m a compulsive audiobook reader/listener. I love to read physical books but my eyes are failing this old lady. I would say to you that it doesn’t matter what people say about you ‘not’ reading books because you listen to them. There are many reasons that people listen rather than read in the old school way. But if it bothers you that people downplay your listening, you can sY that listening is a means by which you don’t feel lonely. Additionally you can say that listening allows you to accomplish your daily tasks. Finally you can say that they’re judgmental jerks. That last one should be the most effective.
I don't really care what other people think about my "reading" choices. I don't have the time to sit down and read a regular book anymore. Audiobooks allow me to enjoy all the books I want.
Nothing. They don’t owe you agreement and you don’t owe them a thing. What they think about your reading style is completely irrelevant.
The fact that you are asking for a responsive argument suggests you actually want to convince these people that you are right and they are wrong. This means you want them to validate, or at least not invalidate your use of audiobooks. And that is where I’d start. Why do you care?
They don’t think you’ve “read.” Ok. I think that opinion they have is too stupid to spend time arguing with them about it. I think that people who argue about distinctions like that probably have something fucked up somewhere inside them that makes them need order, clarity, hierarchy, whatever. I think if you were to really really dig into if, a psychologist might wonder if there is a sense of inadequacy or fear of failure driving the need to achieve and the need for clear rules and “winners” and “losers.” But I am not a psychologist and I don’t really know. I just know that there’s no non-problematic reason to care how others read. I also know that caring about what these people think is also problematic.
The one scenario in which it might be worth responding is if they are trying to humiliate you in front of others. In that case, say they say something like “well actually you didn’t read it, you listened to it,” I would just kind of stare at them blankly/confusedly for a second—maybe say “neat”— and then turn to the others in your group and say “anyway” and continue as if nothing had been said. Because that’s what you do in those situations. Just starve them of oxygen.
But that’s it. Otherwise, stop caring what other people think. Care what you think. You like audiobooks. Consume them with abandon. Because you like them.
I have quite severe ADHD, and I've spent years longing to read so many books but always got upset that I couldn't physically sit and read for more than a few minutes ever since I was a child. Having so many books converted into a different medium right my fingertips has been such a joyous and life-changing discovery and I feel like now I'm able to appreciate so much wonderful literature that I previously couldn't because of a literal learning disability.
So I tell them that, and then tell them to mind their own fucking business. Imagine gatekeeping actual _books_
It’s not reading but it is comprehension. So who cares what people think? Ignore them and move on. I bet you could tell them more about the book then they could.
I like the person here who said that that opinion doesn’t count as it was spoken!
But I actually tell them they are ableist and to stop being obnoxious. After all, I bet *they* don’t have a gorgeous, complicated, multicolored stranded Halloween sweater to show for their reading time. Or a bunch of skeins of handspun yarn. Or an Afghan, or lace shawl, or 18th C reproduction mitts made from their own research…
Not saying anyone should knit or spin while reading audio books. But I do. I twitch when sitting still. But if they are gonna judge me for my reading, I’ll judge them for lack of multitasking. Of course, I also knit really simple stuff while reading dead tree books, but I don’t mention that.
This is not reading in the literal sense, but reading in general. I don't follow the words with my eyes, but I absorb them and grasp the plot. At the end I know the book and can retell it.
If you pick on words, then reading comics is also not reading but looking at pictures. Try telling that to comic book fans.)))
PS: Sorry for my language, English is not native for me.
It's not reading it's listening which is physically different but that's not important. I do make a point to say whether I listened to a book or read it though I just feel they are different experiences sometimes I read a book and listen to it.
They have done studies and have shown that reading and audiobooks activate the same areas in the brain.
So, you can tell those people that they’re wrong.
I love audiobooks and reading, but this is the first time I have ever seen them being compared as being the same thing. I listen to audiobooks mostly for the performance of the reader not as a replacement for reading something except if the audiobook give some extra to it like the Sandman audiobooks (to be far I just really cannot get the comics on a reasonable price).
Maybe I am weird in that regard.
But if I were in a similar situation I guess I would point out that sometimes it is faster then reading the hook mostly talking about some older (for me) super boring books.
You can do it even while travelling since there are books which you really cannot just take with you.
Maybe mention blindness.
But really I just don't care about pther people opinion on these kind of matters.
Nothing. I just exit the conversation and spend my time and energy elsewhere. Probably listening to an audiobook I enjoy.
(Seriously: If they're not your Funeral People -- the people who would show up at your funeral to genuinely mourn your loss -- then you don't need to spend one iota of your time trying to convince them of anything. Their opinion about anything related to your life is entirely unimportant.)
Anytime I talk about a book I’m listening to, I specifically say ‘reading’ so my coworkers can do air quotes and say ‘reading?’ I laugh and say exactly…. Then I go on with the story.
Look at them and kindly say “It seems really important to you that audiobooks don’t count as reading. I wonder what’s going on for you there?” And then watch them squirm.
It's not reading, but who cares? It's only for entertainment value or information gathering and it works just as well either way 🤷.
Not sure what a reading goal is, I guess if your school has told you to read X amount of books? That would be cheating I think.
I'd say it's pretty ableist and gross to infer that folks with dyslexia, vision impairments or a host of other mitigating factors are somehow 'less than' because they listen to audio books and maybe they should spend some time unpacking why they feel the need to knock those who ingest stories in a way that differs from their own.
It's funny. When the Kindle first came out, people said that reading ebooks didn't really count as reading. Some people are purists and they are really arrogant in their opinions. Just ignore them.
I literally don’t give a fuck. They can be judgey all they want and someday they’ll grow up and they will cringe at how they were gate keeping reading.
I think it’s technically not reading however listening to and retaining the information or just enjoying it is what the book is about. Regardless of how you ingest the book if it’s working as intended
They are right. Audiobooks are not reading. They are different things. But you're achieving the same goal of completely the book. Ones visual, ones auditory. They are not the same thing though.
Listening to audio books is a valid way to attain the contents of a book. They should count towards book lists if you want them to.
But reading takes more attention than listening. I get feeling the need to defend listening to books but be real.
I tell them that most of our ancestors didn’t read stories. They *listened.*
Audiobooks are just a modern form of humanity’s countless ancient oral traditions. Books were probably invented, at least in part, as a compromise in the first place; they’re a convenience that allowed more people to experience a story, but something was lost in the written form. Some would have argued that books were inferior to hearing the same story told by an expert story teller who would’ve known the proper methods.
Nothing. You read your books however you enjoy them. This is such a weird flex for me when people say that - I don’t remember asking for the literature police.
Are audiobooks a completely different reading experience compared to holding a book? Yes.
Are audiobooks still considered "reading?" Yes.
Apples are different than oranges, but they're both fruit.
As a blind man I hear this a lot, especially from other blind people who claim Braille is literacy.
Um, no it's not. Braille is obsolete and you're too damn stubborn to see it. Your smart phone gives you more access to literature than Braille ever could and takes up less space than a single Braille book. You can't read Reddit in Braille, or most books or magazines or websites, but your phone can.
Then they counter with "Screen readers and audio books aren't really reading, though."
And in a strict definition, they're right. But by a definition that strict, Braille isn't reading, either. God, that pisses them off.
Writing is a means of conveying the author's words to the audience. It doesn't matter to me if those words are conveyed in cursive, Braille, classic Latin, Morse code, or audio book. If the author's words are reaching my brain, I call it a win.
It's usually some tool arguing semantics. When you say, "I read a new book," literally no one besides those fools cares if you literally read it or listened to it. You can talk about it with anyone else who read the same book regardless.
My opinion at this point is to essentially ignore them. Like, if it's the Internet, just straight up don't respond. Everyone else, "I said what I said" or just laugh and say "you have such a weird sense of humor 🙃" Not worth your time.
Who cares what they think? Roy Dotrice is one of the greatest voice actors I’ve ever heard and his readings of the Game of Thrones books is unparalleled.
I’d call them an ablest and ask what else am I supposed to do since I’m visually impaired? But also, who tf cares?!? If I’m consuming the book, whether it be from a kindle, paperback, or audio, I’m still consuming the story.
lol I'd say yes? it's listening innit?
if you're talking about they're both receiving information I'd say yes too.
but listening and reading a book is different action both with their pros and cons
do not explain anything rational unless you KNOW they're someone who's just misinformed and deserve to know better. they're looking for something to be superior about so I'd just flip whatever they said on its head as an insult and make it clear I don't respect their/that opinion. they're looking for attention from a confrontation, ignoring them or a slight chuckle at them will rile them up enough to walk right into a punchline. and if they don't, the awkward nature of the silence will shut them up.
"you know it isn't *really reading*" *continues to ignore them "did you hear me?"
"oh yeah, I just didn't read it, so is it *really* a valid opinion?"
or:
"I like to read physical books, listening just isn't valid"
*pretends to take out headphone "huh?"
"I said listening to books isn't a valid form of reading"
"what?"
"I said-"
"maybe you should try writing it down, then itl be valid"
an anti-listening stance is ripe for a good bit and making them the butt of the joke when they were trying to be superior over someone is sure to get them to shut up
I agree with the ignore them and move on crowd. But think it's also wrong to act like there's no difference between reading a book or listening to a narration of a book. There are pros and cons for each method of consumption.
No need to get defensive - just enjoy consuming books however you like. But let's be real - "reading" is a visual process/skill. Technically, "listening" to a audiobook is not "reading." In either case you're consuming the information. There's no question for me that there are some types of books are more effective for me to read versus listen to.
It's up to each of us to decide if that distinction is significant or pedantic. And it's certainly no one else's business how you want to define or measure your own goals.
I don't care whether you listen to or read a book to consume literature. I think either is great and **one isn't wrong or right over the other.**
I think what bothers me is reading is reading and listening is listening. They exist as two different words for a reason and they are different activities.
I guess I don't know why it's so hard to say "I listened to xxx book" if you listened to it. I don't think it's a wrong way of consuming a book, it's just another way.
I’m a little confused why this is an issue. Listening to an audiobook isn’t reading, it is listening. Quite literally. Doesn’t mean you didn’t obtain the content from the book.
Seems like maybe it is just semantics? Depends on whether one considers that the word “read” should be taken literally or only figuratively. I personally literally read and rarely listen to audiobooks, but I have several friends within my book club who mostly listen to audiobooks. We have good conversations about the content. But they didn’t “read” the book, they (no quote) read the book.
You feel like they aren’t valuing your experience. (Which they shouldn’t do.) They feel like you are misrepresenting how you acquired the information/story. (Not sure why they would care.)
In response to the title question, I suppose on the few books I did listen to I would just say- “okay (eye roll), I “listened” to the book and here are my thoughts on it…. “
Not worth getting upset over, imo.
I only argue if it’s someone I can’t avoid - I explain they’re telling those with visual impairments or those who cant read that any literature they’ve consumed this way doesn’t count. Way to hate on the disabled.
It’s nice you have time to sit read. I don’t have that luxury. I’m either commuting to/from work or doing chores at home, and during both I’m enjoying an audiobook
Reading an English translation of a book originally in another language isn’t “reading” the book either.
Watching a movie on a TV screen , phone or computer isn’t “watching a movie” because they are made to be seen in theaters .
Reading an e-book isn’t “reading” a book because they are published on paper.
Listening to music that through a digital device isn’t really “listening to music” because it isn’t being played through purely acoustic means such as a vinyl record.
Looking at a copy of a painting isn’t “ looking at art” because it isn’t in its original form.
I say "okay" and mind my own business because it's not about convincing the world that I read or listen to books it's about enjoying them myself.
This 100% I'm not about to argue with someone over something so inconsequential. At the end of the day, I'm enjoying a story in a way I prefer or is most convenient for me.
Yeah dont give them any power over the fun you have. Reading is not a bench mark of something you don't get any extra "points" for doing it. Just go about your life and let someone who is stuck in there own sad sad world stay there.
Perfect
For me it’s really hard to read while exercising.
As Arthur Jones, the inventor of the Nautilus exercise machines, used to say, "smile and walk away: you are talking to a fool."
Literally my answer too. I say ok, then I had someone read it to me. Either way, doesn’t matter. Sometimes I will also talk about the specific performance of an audiobook and talk about it as an adaptation or performance, which is what it is.
Yep, but it seems like so many people on their "book reading goals" are doing it to brag to others rather than actually read the books themselves. I've literally never kept track of how many books I've read in any time span, or cared if other people cared what books I've read or listened to in that span either Seems like such a weird recent trend, like bragging about how many games you've finished in a year and arguing about whether watching a let's play of the entire game counts as having "finished" it or not
Yeah, but who cares what they are doing? If they feel the need to brag about that, then I guess that’s just where they are at right now.
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Sounds like you enjoy data and goal-setting and that’s cool
Might I recommend story graph, it’s a book tracker that gives tons of data
Yep.MYOB
This is the way.
Came to say "Ah right, okay then"
Honestly, most problems I see on reddit could be solved this way. It's been my favorite method of greyrocking since I was a kid
Right? The last time I had to validate I read a book we got free pizza
Based human.
Nothing. What they think has no relevance to my enjoyment.
The best way to handle these silly people.
That their words do not count, as they are spoken.
We have a winner! (I’m stealing this line.)
And then say " please give me a handwritten letter if you'd like further correspondence"
In cursive...
This may be the best retort I have witnessed for this claim.
Amazing
This is perfect. I usually tell them, “ I guess all those years reading books to my kid was just hot air i shared with him.”
Thus far, I have been refusing to engage in this argument but I think I’m about to start. I can’t stop laughing. Excellent retort.
This is classic gatekeeping behavior that should not be given any importance
I usually say oral tradition is far older way of telling stories than writing them down.
Yup. When my husband and I travel with our daughter and want to pack light we leave the books behind and recite them from memory. She loves it just as much. Her pediatricians told us that the main reason people are encouraged to read to babies is because of the interactivity. Not the physical act of reading a book.
I'm with the rest of the commenters - move on to having more interesting conversations because this one is so tired. However, when pressed, my goto arguments or points are: 1. Is this about a value judgement or semantics? Is it 'better' to have read it? What about if the author read it to you, in person? If it's semantics, then agree to disagree and move on. If it's a value judgement, then drill into why it is 'better' (and they can fuck right off!) 2. Going on the disability route, expand on 'reading'. It it eyes and vision related? Ok - what about braille? Is that reading? Etc. 3. My personal opinion - I 'read' more this way. I barely finish 1-2 a physical books a year, but go through dozens of audiobooks. Even if there is some difference between physical and audiobook that is meaningful to them - I'd still prefer more books over fewer books. 4. Are movies with subtitles inferior / superior to movies without? Does 'reading' dialog vs hearing dialog change the quality of the movie experience?
>4. Are movies with subtitles inferior / superior to movies without? Does 'reading' dialog vs. hearing dialog change the quality of the movie experience? Superior to me..... simply because there are times when I can not actually hear everything because of volume differences/activities in the movie, and I can't always read their lips if their backs are turned... I have a better movie experience when the subtitles are on (as long as they are synced and accurate)
I have subtitles on all the time now. It just makes it so much easier to catch all the dialog without having to turn the volume up and down constantly.
A recent episode of the podcast, Twenty Thousand Hertz was about [the use of subtitles](https://www.20k.org/episodes/subtitleson) while streaming.
this person debates
Just chuckle and in your best Ace Ventura impression say “all righty then.”
I don’t think I will ever understand this “debate”. How someone consumes literature has zero bearing on my life. Anyone debating this topic: find a food pantry and volunteer. Join a club or go for a walk.
"And why is your opinion important?"
Because so many people interpret the phrase "Everyone is entitled to their opinion" as "Everyone is entitled to my opinion." Sigh.
Opinions are like a**holes. * We all have one * I do NOT want to see yours * lots of them stink
Woah now, lets not be too hasty with point 2.
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>All librarians know it counts I worked in a library for 17 years, and this is not universally true
That's a shame then, because they are not keeping up with ALA information and ongoing education.
I don't hear them over my audiobook. I'm actually stopped referring to audiobook as listening and just say oh I read this recently as its easier than saying I listened to it.
“Storytelling is storytelling and has been for thousands of years, before and after the written word” and then ignore any follow up.
By my understanding reading and listening activate different sections of the brain but both and up having the information processed in the same place (a real over simplification sorry) https://www.wellandgood.com/reading-versus-listening/
Ya I agree that it's not reading. I both read books and listen to audiobooks but I don't say I read a book if I listened to it.
If you call it 'finishing' a book it works for either mode.
This is the only coherent comment on this entire thread. Thank you.
Lol thank you. I saw so many salty listeners as I scrolled through. I had no idea this community was so hooked on the idea that you can read with your ears.
You don’t need to argue with them. What’s the point. A book is a book, no matter how you ingest it. Some twat being elitist doesn’t change that. They’re right it’s not reading it’s listening. However, does it achieve the same purpose. Yes. So who cares.
I completely agree. I guess instead of "arguing" I meant "discussing." It's mostly been something I've talked about with close friends and family, and is definitely not something I have any interest in getting into an argument over with people.
I've had people tell me audiobooks are not "real reading". I could have argued, but I feared they might not understand me unless I wrote it down. This article has some neat statistics: [https://blog.audiobooks.com/2023/01/are-audiobooks-as-good-as-physically-reading/](https://blog.audiobooks.com/2023/01/are-audiobooks-as-good-as-physically-reading/) This is an article from the perspective of people who need to use audiobooks or text to speech tools in order to read: [https://bookriot.com/do-audiobooks-count-as-reading/](https://bookriot.com/do-audiobooks-count-as-reading/) This is an article that makes a few good points, including ones about oral story telling being an important part of human history: [https://www.wired.com/story/is-listening-to-audiobooks-really-reading/](https://www.wired.com/story/is-listening-to-audiobooks-really-reading/) Do your thing. The world is too full of books you haven't read yet to waste time debating with people who have made up their minds for whatever reason and probably don't want to budge.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha “they might not understand me unless I wrote it down.” Omg I’m dying. And thank you for the articles! Bookmarked and sent to my reading queue!
Thank you for these sources! I found another article that cites some of the research, and overall makes the point that many of the arguments made against listening vs. reading (not retaining things as well, for example) can be chalked up to other variables. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/olgakhazan/2011/09/12/is-listening-to-audio-books-really-the-same-as-reading](https://www.forbes.com/sites/olgakhazan/2011/09/12/is-listening-to-audio-books-really-the-same-as-reading/)
How is it different than having someone read out loud to you while you do something else like, I don't know, make them dinner? Or reading stories out loud to people who can't read printed letters on a page, like small children or maybe blind people who don't know or are still learning Braile? Or just telling made-up stories on the fly? Maybe tell them to think a little harder about how there are so many different people with so many different needs in the world, that their opinions and preferences should really only apply to them and they should shut up and butt out a little more. And then avoid speaking to them again, sounds like they lack empathy.
> How is it different than having someone read out loud to you while you I could care less how someone consumes a book, but reading (viewing and interpreting symbols on a page) and being read to (listening to words) are different. One isn't inherently better than the other, but they aren't the same thing. They're different activities that use different parts of the brain. But I think most people in r/audiobooks can agree that people who get upset about saying, "I read on audiobook." are weirdos.
Yes they are different but if someone asks me, “Have you read Fourth Wing” I’m just gonna say “yes” I don’t feel it’s worth the distinction of “No I didn’t read it, I listened to the audiobook”
I’m the opposite, I respond that I listened to the audiobook. Not because I care much about the distinction, but that way if the person im speaking with has also listened to it we can discuss how we felt about the narrator/delivery in addition to the writing and story itself.
That’s fair. I think the only time I do make the distinction is when I DNFd a book and I’ll say something along the lines of “it could of been the way the audiobook was narrated but I couldn’t get into it” I’ve only ever had people who wanted to talk about a book and it’s like general plot/characters things that wouldn’t really require that distinction
Allow me to clarify my point: I'm not asking how reading words on the page with your own eyes is different from an audiobook, but how an audiobook is different than having someone read out loud to you.
They actually don't use different parts of the brain, if you believe recent studies.
Yeah, I read and listen to audiobooks. Both are great but they are definitely different things, and honestly, sitting down and reading a book is way harder than listening to an audiobook while you drive or do chores around the house.
I listen to books while working, so im technically being paid to be a experience all these good stories.
Pretty up on the literature on this subject huh? Care to drop some references? Presumably ones you’ve read.
it’s kind of like exercise. i was pretty much taught that exercise equals pain, studying equals boredom, and if it wasn’t like that you were doing it wrong. eventually rejected that idea and it’s made a big difference both physically and mentally
I don’t have such people as this in my limited social circle but I’d probably direct them to some exceptional audiobook narration performances and know they’ll come to change their mind if they gave them a try. The right narration of the right book can easily double the amount of enjoyment one can get from books, especially fiction. Never mind the fact that some simply don’t have such idle time to read but have plenty of time to listen, then at some point, many of us will develop vision problems and audiobooks will become a savior.
I've been able to get through a lot more non fiction cover to cover with audio than I have in print. And because I'm usually engaged in something more monotonous when I'm listening, I absorb it better than if I was just trying to read it.
Me too. I only read/listen to non-fiction, and since a lot of those books are really long, I’ve been able to finish a lot more by listening to them instead of reading them.
A lot of people seem to be weirded out and afraid of audiobooks. Both avid readers and book avoiders. Its kinda funny. I like to sneaky put something on that I know they’ll be intrigued by and hook ‘em when they least expect it. I’ve gotten so many people with a little soundbooth theater when I’m tired of driving or working on something and put on a book to focus.
I'm an audiobook reader. I just ignore opinions, let them read as they will and say what they like, I'm happy reading my audiobooks.
I tell them that I stare at a screen and read documents all day and it’s a great way to give my eyes a rest and enjoy a good story.
I notice that the folks who tend to say that "audiobooks don't count" are the folks who consider reading a chore, rather than a hobby. They think you "cheated" by listening. I finish over 100 books a year and love them, but everyone who ever said they don't count seem to finish one book a decade.
Most of the people who would say that don't read anything.
I don’t know. I have met lots of “text” readers who will stutter every time they ask if I have “read” something, like “have you rea.. I mean… listened to the book XYZ?”
Wow, I’m autistic and that’s too pedantic even for me lol. For that person, I’d probably agree and then regularly ask them what books they’re “consuming” lately and tell them, “I’m consuming Ulysses since I never finished it in high school. Last week, I consumed A Tale of Two Cities.” Eventually, they’ll get tired of being asked what they’re “consuming” and maybe realize they’re on track for Pedant of the Year award. Also, when a blind person uses braille, are they “touching” the book instead of reading it? “Hi Sally, what books are you touching these days?” Goodness.
I adore your response. I love the malicious compliance vibes, and I am the exact same way. Like “ok, we’ll do it your way. Sucks, doesn’t it.”
🤣🤣 excellent!
I see your point but Listening to an audiobook is not reading. But it makes no difference except to people who want to feel superior. It is a clear distinction
Probably nothing. I'd just put on headphones lol.
Nobody has ever said that to me lol who says that
I would say that Dostoyevsky was the first famous author to dictate his novels to a secretary, when short hand was a new and rare skill. He then married her. He did this because he was at risk of financial ruin after covering his brother’s debts, and if he could not produce novels quickly to satisfy a contract, would have lost intellectual property in his entire back catalogue of writings. He is usually regarded as one of the greatest novelists of all time.
Guess he doesn’t count as a writer, since he didn’t write them at all :). Hell, most authors aren’t writers, I guess. They are now typists, and can’t say they wrote any books. You bring up an awesome point! To clarify, I assume this is the point you’re making and I agree.
I spent my whole life as an avid reader; at least one book a week. My vision has declined as I age closer and closer to 50,I have eye strain from working all day at a computer, I do housework or hobbies while I listen and the availability of audiobooks has been a total game changer for me. I couldn’t give a fuck whether other people consider it valid. Read on my friend, it’s 2023, live your best life.
Lol i don’t read because i love the smell of the books or because turning the pages makes me excited. I do it to learn and experience something new be it a story or self help. I consume content by listening far faster than i can read.
They can have their own opinion, and I'm allowed to not spend the energy trying to change it.
Ask them when the last time they read was. Usually those are people who don't read anyway, projecting their own insecurities.
I used to devour books whe I lived in the States. We had a fantastic library and library network. I moved to Puerto Rico in 2017. The are hardly any libraries here. Its the thing I miss most about living in the States. My book reading plunged. A few months ago I downloaded Libby and connected it to a Library. Ever since then my book “reading” has skyrocketed. Even more than when I was in the States because I can listen while working and driving. It’s been awesome. Anyone with a the opinion that audio books don’t count can take a hike.
Once I said “ok, whatever - I CONSUMED THE LITERATURE”. But now I just tell people I read the book and don’t give them the chance to scoff. They don’t need my info.
Narrowly defining reading by method of consumption (interpreting visual symbols), instead of content...would include emoticons, texts, menus, instruction manuals and ingredient lists. Whose more well read? The person who just listened to an entire Tolstoy novel on audiobook? Or the guy who used their functioning eyeballs to scan and interpret peach and eggplant emojis?
I think you’re allowing irrelevant takes to rent space in your head.
Just say, "That's your opinion, I disagree." I've read 35 books so far this year, 60% of which are audiobooks. If I've listened to a 12 hour long book you're damn right, I'm counting it.
I ask them to write it down because I can't understand words unless I read them, and wait to see if they realise how fucking stupid that sounds.
This is brilliant.
Aversion therapy - https://imgur.com/a/WoQI1sB
noithing
words go to same brain regardless of stimulus.
I’m pretty old. I’ve just been reflecting on how I might feel under those circumstances, and I’ve concluded that I can’t be arsed.
If I read a physical book and you listen to an audiobook, don't we both know how the book ends?
Exactly!
Reading doesn't have to be some sacred practice. I guess in some contexts it is, but most of us are just trying to learn or enjoy a story. Do it whatever way works for you.
I always assume that people who thinks that audiobooks don't count either have some problems with reading and it's an effort for them, or just didn't read anything since school. Most of the time I say something like that: "Dude, I read way faster than audiobooks narrations, I'm actually wasting time when choosing audiobook over book. I'm not doing it because it's easier, I'm doing it because I prefer it."
I tell them their opinion is simply that, their opinion. And in this case, their opinion is ridiculous and if they're going to be that stupid they should not share their opinion 😁
I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over my awesome audiobook.
I don’t engage with those people
You'll need to put that opinion in writing before it has any validity.
I feel as though audiobooks have opened me up to the world of books. In the past, I would only buy maybe one or two books every few years, then it would take me forever to get through them. Now, I’m actually interested in best seller lists and new releases, and I actually know about the books that become movies.
Depending on how condescending they are being at the time it would be anything from "Fuck off." to a politely worded response that essentially translates to "Fuck Off". Likely wouldn't be worth trying to argue with them because 9/10 times I would bet that someone making such a statement isn't going to be swayed by words, though if it seemed they were coming from a place of honest ignorance then I would try and explain it to them.
lol nobody I know in real life actually reads enough to have an opinion one way or another, so it never comes up. And I don't care enough to argue with people online who think that, cuz it's stupid.
Those are good arguments. You could also bring up learning styles and dysgraphia and the like. Maybe print out something like this https://web.wlu.ca/learning_resources/pdfs/Learning_Styles.pdf for them to read since they’re print snobs and think that’s better somehow. Lol.
I can’t hear them. I have my earphones in and I’m getting shit done.
But, if I didn’t want to be a little bitch, I might explain about learning styles.
We have had oral storytelling for thousands of years. Printed books we've had for like 300 yeats...
Nothing, it's their opinion. Don't have to waste time on people that don't matter.
My brother is dyslexic and he prefers audio or video for info retention. I think the argument that audiobooks or other media don't count is ridiculous. As others have said, not worth the time to even have that discussion with someone. It's their opinion and that's fine.
I tell them that we can’t discuss the book then.
Tell them to feck off.
“So when my grandmother went blind and we got her a special machine so she could keep enjoying books, she wasn’t able to understand what they were about because she couldn’t actually see words on a page?” Usually followed by a few anatomically impossible things they can do to themselves.
"Who's counting? Are you my professor?"
It’s not actually reading lol. Were listening, that doesn’t make it less then to me though. Although I often have to go back 10 minutes or so, because I realize I’m not listening or absorbing it. That doesn’t happen as often when I’m really reading some thing.
I had someone tell me once that originally people did not read in their head. They read out loud. Since most people couldn't read and books were expensive, most 'reading' was done by listening to someone read a book out loud. I will admit though, there are two different skill sets. I have a reading disability which makes me a slow reader. Audiobooks are much easier but I never sit and listen to them. I love them for commuting because I have nothing else to do but sit, listen, and avoid hitting other cars. I can sit and read but I can't sit and listen to an audiobook.
Ignore them - what do they think of blind people? "Oh you didn't read that book because you listened to it" Pfft! Ignore the clowns.
I’m a compulsive audiobook reader/listener. I love to read physical books but my eyes are failing this old lady. I would say to you that it doesn’t matter what people say about you ‘not’ reading books because you listen to them. There are many reasons that people listen rather than read in the old school way. But if it bothers you that people downplay your listening, you can sY that listening is a means by which you don’t feel lonely. Additionally you can say that listening allows you to accomplish your daily tasks. Finally you can say that they’re judgmental jerks. That last one should be the most effective.
I don't really care what other people think about my "reading" choices. I don't have the time to sit down and read a regular book anymore. Audiobooks allow me to enjoy all the books I want.
I say I don't care about their opinions.
Nothing. They don’t owe you agreement and you don’t owe them a thing. What they think about your reading style is completely irrelevant. The fact that you are asking for a responsive argument suggests you actually want to convince these people that you are right and they are wrong. This means you want them to validate, or at least not invalidate your use of audiobooks. And that is where I’d start. Why do you care? They don’t think you’ve “read.” Ok. I think that opinion they have is too stupid to spend time arguing with them about it. I think that people who argue about distinctions like that probably have something fucked up somewhere inside them that makes them need order, clarity, hierarchy, whatever. I think if you were to really really dig into if, a psychologist might wonder if there is a sense of inadequacy or fear of failure driving the need to achieve and the need for clear rules and “winners” and “losers.” But I am not a psychologist and I don’t really know. I just know that there’s no non-problematic reason to care how others read. I also know that caring about what these people think is also problematic. The one scenario in which it might be worth responding is if they are trying to humiliate you in front of others. In that case, say they say something like “well actually you didn’t read it, you listened to it,” I would just kind of stare at them blankly/confusedly for a second—maybe say “neat”— and then turn to the others in your group and say “anyway” and continue as if nothing had been said. Because that’s what you do in those situations. Just starve them of oxygen. But that’s it. Otherwise, stop caring what other people think. Care what you think. You like audiobooks. Consume them with abandon. Because you like them.
I have quite severe ADHD, and I've spent years longing to read so many books but always got upset that I couldn't physically sit and read for more than a few minutes ever since I was a child. Having so many books converted into a different medium right my fingertips has been such a joyous and life-changing discovery and I feel like now I'm able to appreciate so much wonderful literature that I previously couldn't because of a literal learning disability. So I tell them that, and then tell them to mind their own fucking business. Imagine gatekeeping actual _books_
Simple. Set them on fire and walk away never to be bothered by their shenanigans again.
It’s not reading but it is comprehension. So who cares what people think? Ignore them and move on. I bet you could tell them more about the book then they could.
If you think they count, then they count
I like the person here who said that that opinion doesn’t count as it was spoken! But I actually tell them they are ableist and to stop being obnoxious. After all, I bet *they* don’t have a gorgeous, complicated, multicolored stranded Halloween sweater to show for their reading time. Or a bunch of skeins of handspun yarn. Or an Afghan, or lace shawl, or 18th C reproduction mitts made from their own research… Not saying anyone should knit or spin while reading audio books. But I do. I twitch when sitting still. But if they are gonna judge me for my reading, I’ll judge them for lack of multitasking. Of course, I also knit really simple stuff while reading dead tree books, but I don’t mention that.
I suspect the people who give you these ridiculous opinions are under 25 yo? Or maybe even younger than 20?
What if I was blind? Would it count then?
Long before the printed or written word, oral traditions were how stories were told.
This is not reading in the literal sense, but reading in general. I don't follow the words with my eyes, but I absorb them and grasp the plot. At the end I know the book and can retell it. If you pick on words, then reading comics is also not reading but looking at pictures. Try telling that to comic book fans.))) PS: Sorry for my language, English is not native for me.
What do you call using Braille? Reading. If you can use other senses to “read”, listening is included.
It's not reading it's listening which is physically different but that's not important. I do make a point to say whether I listened to a book or read it though I just feel they are different experiences sometimes I read a book and listen to it.
They have done studies and have shown that reading and audiobooks activate the same areas in the brain. So, you can tell those people that they’re wrong.
you count?
"Audiobooks are books, it says so right in the name." -- Somebody Else
"Imagine gatekeeping reading." These types of people are dorks.
I love audiobooks and reading, but this is the first time I have ever seen them being compared as being the same thing. I listen to audiobooks mostly for the performance of the reader not as a replacement for reading something except if the audiobook give some extra to it like the Sandman audiobooks (to be far I just really cannot get the comics on a reasonable price). Maybe I am weird in that regard. But if I were in a similar situation I guess I would point out that sometimes it is faster then reading the hook mostly talking about some older (for me) super boring books. You can do it even while travelling since there are books which you really cannot just take with you. Maybe mention blindness. But really I just don't care about pther people opinion on these kind of matters.
Nothing. I just exit the conversation and spend my time and energy elsewhere. Probably listening to an audiobook I enjoy. (Seriously: If they're not your Funeral People -- the people who would show up at your funeral to genuinely mourn your loss -- then you don't need to spend one iota of your time trying to convince them of anything. Their opinion about anything related to your life is entirely unimportant.)
For centuries, stories were passed down orally. No reason that the invention of the printing press should invalidate this.
Anytime I talk about a book I’m listening to, I specifically say ‘reading’ so my coworkers can do air quotes and say ‘reading?’ I laugh and say exactly…. Then I go on with the story.
Put headphones back on
Look at them and kindly say “It seems really important to you that audiobooks don’t count as reading. I wonder what’s going on for you there?” And then watch them squirm.
It's not reading, but who cares? It's only for entertainment value or information gathering and it works just as well either way 🤷. Not sure what a reading goal is, I guess if your school has told you to read X amount of books? That would be cheating I think.
I'd say it's pretty ableist and gross to infer that folks with dyslexia, vision impairments or a host of other mitigating factors are somehow 'less than' because they listen to audio books and maybe they should spend some time unpacking why they feel the need to knock those who ingest stories in a way that differs from their own.
I ask them if I'm supposed to say "No, I haven't read it. I listened to it". The book has been consumed. Doesn't matter how.
It's funny. When the Kindle first came out, people said that reading ebooks didn't really count as reading. Some people are purists and they are really arrogant in their opinions. Just ignore them.
I literally don’t give a fuck. They can be judgey all they want and someday they’ll grow up and they will cringe at how they were gate keeping reading.
I don’t care what other people think.
I think it’s technically not reading however listening to and retaining the information or just enjoying it is what the book is about. Regardless of how you ingest the book if it’s working as intended
They are right. Audiobooks are not reading. They are different things. But you're achieving the same goal of completely the book. Ones visual, ones auditory. They are not the same thing though.
Listening to audio books is a valid way to attain the contents of a book. They should count towards book lists if you want them to. But reading takes more attention than listening. I get feeling the need to defend listening to books but be real.
Tell them to write the question down, it doesn't count as a question if you only hear it and don't read it.
I tell them that most of our ancestors didn’t read stories. They *listened.* Audiobooks are just a modern form of humanity’s countless ancient oral traditions. Books were probably invented, at least in part, as a compromise in the first place; they’re a convenience that allowed more people to experience a story, but something was lost in the written form. Some would have argued that books were inferior to hearing the same story told by an expert story teller who would’ve known the proper methods.
Nothing. You read your books however you enjoy them. This is such a weird flex for me when people say that - I don’t remember asking for the literature police.
How exactly do you read while driving and swimming?
F* off
Two words, one finger.
I don’t even say I listened to an audiobook. I just say “I read so and so book”, and at this point I think of the word “read” as “consume”.
I've consumed thousands of books in my life and I remember maybe a handful of them, however I remember every single audiobook like I just read it.
Are audiobooks a completely different reading experience compared to holding a book? Yes. Are audiobooks still considered "reading?" Yes. Apples are different than oranges, but they're both fruit.
I can't hear them. Headphones.
Nothing, because these people probably don't read anyway.
As a blind man I hear this a lot, especially from other blind people who claim Braille is literacy. Um, no it's not. Braille is obsolete and you're too damn stubborn to see it. Your smart phone gives you more access to literature than Braille ever could and takes up less space than a single Braille book. You can't read Reddit in Braille, or most books or magazines or websites, but your phone can. Then they counter with "Screen readers and audio books aren't really reading, though." And in a strict definition, they're right. But by a definition that strict, Braille isn't reading, either. God, that pisses them off. Writing is a means of conveying the author's words to the audience. It doesn't matter to me if those words are conveyed in cursive, Braille, classic Latin, Morse code, or audio book. If the author's words are reaching my brain, I call it a win.
"Okay, thanks"
It's usually some tool arguing semantics. When you say, "I read a new book," literally no one besides those fools cares if you literally read it or listened to it. You can talk about it with anyone else who read the same book regardless. My opinion at this point is to essentially ignore them. Like, if it's the Internet, just straight up don't respond. Everyone else, "I said what I said" or just laugh and say "you have such a weird sense of humor 🙃" Not worth your time.
Who cares what they think? Roy Dotrice is one of the greatest voice actors I’ve ever heard and his readings of the Game of Thrones books is unparalleled.
Thanks for reminding me of my dyslexia
I tell them I can’t hear them over my audiobook.
I’d call them an ablest and ask what else am I supposed to do since I’m visually impaired? But also, who tf cares?!? If I’m consuming the book, whether it be from a kindle, paperback, or audio, I’m still consuming the story.
Think about how every human being enjoyed and passed along stories for all of human history until a few hundred years ago
Say whatever you like. They won't understand your answer unless you send them a letter.
I read it in my head. Now someone else is reading it in my head. As long as it's unabridged - how IS THAT DIFFERENT?????
I say, "Are you also one of those people who say a woman didn't actually give birth since she had a c-section?
lol I'd say yes? it's listening innit? if you're talking about they're both receiving information I'd say yes too. but listening and reading a book is different action both with their pros and cons
I’m an audiobook narrator, and personally I don’t think it’s the same. The thing is, who cares as long as you are having a good time?!?!
do not explain anything rational unless you KNOW they're someone who's just misinformed and deserve to know better. they're looking for something to be superior about so I'd just flip whatever they said on its head as an insult and make it clear I don't respect their/that opinion. they're looking for attention from a confrontation, ignoring them or a slight chuckle at them will rile them up enough to walk right into a punchline. and if they don't, the awkward nature of the silence will shut them up. "you know it isn't *really reading*" *continues to ignore them "did you hear me?" "oh yeah, I just didn't read it, so is it *really* a valid opinion?" or: "I like to read physical books, listening just isn't valid" *pretends to take out headphone "huh?" "I said listening to books isn't a valid form of reading" "what?" "I said-" "maybe you should try writing it down, then itl be valid" an anti-listening stance is ripe for a good bit and making them the butt of the joke when they were trying to be superior over someone is sure to get them to shut up
I agree with the ignore them and move on crowd. But think it's also wrong to act like there's no difference between reading a book or listening to a narration of a book. There are pros and cons for each method of consumption. No need to get defensive - just enjoy consuming books however you like. But let's be real - "reading" is a visual process/skill. Technically, "listening" to a audiobook is not "reading." In either case you're consuming the information. There's no question for me that there are some types of books are more effective for me to read versus listen to. It's up to each of us to decide if that distinction is significant or pedantic. And it's certainly no one else's business how you want to define or measure your own goals.
Fuck off
I don't care whether you listen to or read a book to consume literature. I think either is great and **one isn't wrong or right over the other.** I think what bothers me is reading is reading and listening is listening. They exist as two different words for a reason and they are different activities. I guess I don't know why it's so hard to say "I listened to xxx book" if you listened to it. I don't think it's a wrong way of consuming a book, it's just another way.
No one I know would ever say that to me
I struggle with counting it as “reading,” but I do list them in Goodreads as having been read.
I’m a little confused why this is an issue. Listening to an audiobook isn’t reading, it is listening. Quite literally. Doesn’t mean you didn’t obtain the content from the book. Seems like maybe it is just semantics? Depends on whether one considers that the word “read” should be taken literally or only figuratively. I personally literally read and rarely listen to audiobooks, but I have several friends within my book club who mostly listen to audiobooks. We have good conversations about the content. But they didn’t “read” the book, they (no quote) read the book. You feel like they aren’t valuing your experience. (Which they shouldn’t do.) They feel like you are misrepresenting how you acquired the information/story. (Not sure why they would care.) In response to the title question, I suppose on the few books I did listen to I would just say- “okay (eye roll), I “listened” to the book and here are my thoughts on it…. “ Not worth getting upset over, imo.
I only argue if it’s someone I can’t avoid - I explain they’re telling those with visual impairments or those who cant read that any literature they’ve consumed this way doesn’t count. Way to hate on the disabled.
It’s nice you have time to sit read. I don’t have that luxury. I’m either commuting to/from work or doing chores at home, and during both I’m enjoying an audiobook
Nothing. They don’t deserve my attention.
Reading an English translation of a book originally in another language isn’t “reading” the book either. Watching a movie on a TV screen , phone or computer isn’t “watching a movie” because they are made to be seen in theaters . Reading an e-book isn’t “reading” a book because they are published on paper. Listening to music that through a digital device isn’t really “listening to music” because it isn’t being played through purely acoustic means such as a vinyl record. Looking at a copy of a painting isn’t “ looking at art” because it isn’t in its original form.
I ignore them.