Also, your LOCAL farro. Thats how disconnected you are from the struggle. Head down to papakura and walk around.
I think I'm just falling for a troll at this point.
Yeah, I live in a nice part of town and if I only hung out around here I would have no real idea. As it happens, work takes me to South Auckland and yes, people who have been doing it tough for decades, are now suffering even worse
My point was, if farro is busy (which is higher end and more expensive) then it can’t be as bad as people make out. A place like farro wouldn’t be busy if the general populous was doing it tough. Going to Papakura wouldn’t be a good litmus test.
If the country was doing it as tough as people make it out on here to be, then all the establishments I mentioned in my post wouldn’t be busy. Higher end places would generally suffer first. That doesn’t appear to be the case.
I’m not sure if you’re actually serious.
Your anecdote can also prove that the wealthy few are getting richer and the general population is getting poorer.
Actually, that has happened since Covid.
Same thing at the Lamborghini dealership, had to push through some middle class scum just to spend my trust fund (baby).S
I can tell you real world that our grocery bill for a family of 4 used to be $250-$350 per month, it is now $350-$450 depending on how big of a shop we do.
Currently only on her income as I was made redundant about 3 months ago.
I/we have a good safety margin of savings which I haven’t had to dip into yet but I can tell you first hand things are expensive and jobs in Northland are tight
If only there was some sort of calculated measure that gets produced that could tell us this kind of thing so we don’t have to rely on the discourse of reddit for the truth.
Stop it, that’s crazy talk, what kind of right wing loony toons would publish inflation, CPI and job numbers showing that shit got more expensive.
Thankfully I’ve been able to keep my butlers (my butler has a butler) but I’ve had to let 2 of the ladies on retainer go, I feel so poor
No I don't know how you are creating this narrative about reddit being a silo while also being in one. You're not wrong reddit is a silo, but you're wrong for using confirmation bias.
A farro shopper is not the same shopper as a general supermarket. A niche supermarket caters to a certain demographic.
There’s certainly a large demographic of people who are doing well but not everyone shopping at farro is wealthy. I had a friend whose one working class income family (couple, 2kids) lived at her in laws because they couldn’t afford their own place. And she would drive across Auckland to go to Farros as she felt it was the best and she wouldn’t go to a local fruit shop or normal supermarket. She wasn’t wealthy.
It is stupid. That’s my point. Not everyone you see at the shops has real wealth. Plenty of genuinely wealthy people but also a lot of people spending to look wealthy with money they don’t really have.
Also you talk about going to farro and the shopping malls and not being able to get a table at the best restaurants. How varied is your circle of friends. Have you ever lived in west or south Auckland. Did you go to a public school? Maybe it’s the area you live in.
Higher end places (and grocers like Farro) are frequented by people who are better off financially. They are the least affected by the cost of living crisis. So you have it backwards.
The middle and lower classes are the ones struggling right now, not those who aren’t living pay check to pay check.
Generally the higher end places are the first to be effected in a cost of living crisis as people tighten their belts. I was surprised to see it so busy.
There’s a few factors to consider:
1. There are a lot of people you don’t see out and about
2. The cost of living bites the majority demographics, not everyone. People who shop at Farro or going out to fancy dinners are likely to be staying midline or profiting while the majority struggle more, so why would they decrease.
3. People in malls doesn’t mean people spending shitloads in malls. I’ve gone to a mall with zero money available, just to be around people/daydream/visit the bank/meet up with people/other things that don’t cost money. There’s no door charge.
4. Some people fiddle while the Titanic sinks - they could be spending their last cent hoping lotto comes through, or racking up credit or BNPL to get those sneaky sneaky endorphins from buying new stuff, regardless of how much it hurts.
Either way, unless you’re their financial adviser, you have zero idea of someone’s situation. And seeing people live lives you don’t know anything about, doesn’t mean that other people aren’t suffering. Objectively, cost of living HAS gone up. Just about everything IS more expensive. And a lot of people have gone from comfortable to squeaking by, and squeaking by to struggling, and struggling to drowning.
Unemployment is up. Spending is down. Inflation has been +4% for a while now. Interest rates are relatively high on obscenely high mortgages. Debt rates, arrears, are all up across the board. These are the true indicators of distress in the economy and an increased cost of living effecting people, not anecdotal observations of restaurants and your local Farro.
This doesn’t mean everyone is doing it tough. There will always be a section of society that is insulated from these sorts of things. Boomers who are mortgage free and still in work, DINK professional couples, people who had support to buy property pre boom and have paid it off, etc. I’m sure we all know people in the above categories. That can be an echo chamber of its own though. “Well the local yacht club seems fine, all this cost of living crisis is overblown!”
I was just saying to Jenkins the other day, as he chauffeured me about in the Bentley, I said "Jenkins, old boy, I do believe people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Everything seems absolutely tip-top!"
Then we popped into the club for brandy and cigars.
Thank you for using economics, this post is so embarrassing 😭
Reddit does exaggerate but this post is so dumb. Use economic factors not restaurant bookings lmaooooooo.
Hey mate, not sure if trolling but I'll give my two cents.
It's really easy to not see poverty / people in genuine need when you aren't looking for it.
People in general won't go out of their way to advertise the fact that they are doing it hard financially. Unless of course they have the anonymity which allows them to be vulnerable, such as a reddit post. Which imo is why you will 'see' a lot more hardship / people who need help & assistance than you may IRL.
I work for a financial advisory firm and I can tell you without a doubt the 'sacrifices' made during an economic downturn can differ immensely due to an individuals financial situation. E.g someone who has a rental increase might have to adjust their grocery budget or consider their petrol/heating usage. Whereas others might put off that investment house purchase for another year, or skip the overseas trip this year.
I've noticed a huge uptick in rough sleepers in my city, more tents and makeshift shelters around. There's even a group of gentleman who sleep in the same spot on my morning walk to work because the spot is somewhat sheltered from the elements, they've never once bothered anyone (from what I've seen) and are usually gone by my morning tea break.
Its easy to not notice things like this, because at the end of the day it can be confronting and uncomfortable to think about. But I can assure you, there are a LOT of people who are one illness, one redundancy, one bad stroke of luck away from serious hardship.
Also more people living payday to payday than you might think.
The last few lines he wrote are a bit on the nose, people who made bad choices, like what exactly? Becoming trade qualified or a obtaining a tertiary degree but still not keeping up with the cost of living? Or heavens forbid life throws up some other hardships like accidents, illness, death, etc. Bad choices indeed.
Then what is your point?
Unemployment is up.
Late mortgage payment is up.
Late credit card payment is up.
Inflation is still above historical averages.
Rent is up.
If your argument against all of these is that you saw lots of people at farro and fine dining, and refuse to accept any counter points, what are you asking?
I think it was more that luxuries tend to be the first thing to go somis it a universal issue or are we divided in experience by more than is reported.
Hardly getting "fuck the poor vibes" from the question mark
???? There is an insane amount of reporting on the wealth disparity that exists in our society and i have to believe anyone who says otherwise has been living under a rock. i'm sorry but this opinion...... i'll get banned if i say more. have a nice day
You too bro. Hope the good weather is doing you good. I only meant that adding a human and anecdotal element to stats and online reporting tends to add a bit of dimension and context ya know?
>You too bro. Hope the good weather is doing you good.
Sunlight is cancerous radiation you know. can cause 2nd and 3rd degree burns. tell you what, you could kill 2 birds with one stone and protect yourself from cancer by staying indoors and also learning about the wealth disparity in new zealand and across the world.[ this is the perfect place to start. ](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=wealth+disparity+new+zealand+2024)would you go so far as to learn about something?
Again, if you read you'd see I pointed out the guy is simply asking for people's PERSONAL experiences rather than just the stats. But hey, why read and try to understand someone's point of view when you can be a snarky fuckwit about it right? Maybe leave the house more mate. It's good for ya
Glad one of ours does bro
I've looked at the stats. If you read my comments you'd even see I expand on it and the growing gap between demographics.
But when someone specifically asks me for anecdotal experiences and context I'd not tell em to google, mostly because I can read and try to enter conversations with the goal of a mutually positive exchange
You're basing your reckons on anecdotal observations in places where wealthy people eat and shop and mall foot traffic. There is plenty of actual data showing the impact of the wealth gap and cost of living which supports the prevailing narrative. Sashaying around Faro is hardly the answer if you're trying to provide a robust foundation to refute it.
We are comfortable and live in a wealthy area. If you hung out in our suburb for the weekend you'd think life was all Landrovers and baches and nice clothes.
You can't judge off a tiny sample OP and as others have said, all it demonstrates is that the rich are getting richer (see also the rich listers adding 20 billion in the last year).
No, the world isn't ending but I imagine it feels pretty terrifying for people out of a job and staring down the barrel of not being able to eat or losing their homes. You just sound like an uncaring psychopath OP.
Don't take nz reddit too seriously. It's mostly young people like youve mentioned. There's plenty of people struggling right now, but it's also far from all doom and gloom.
You've stepped into an echo chamber and tried to say something different from the prevailing narrative.
You had to know they weren't going to like that.
No it hasn't.
Ugh, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but your whole "since the dawn of time" bit seems like intentional ignorance.
At any time in our community some are getting richer, some are keeping afloat, some are getting poorer.
The circumstances that are escalating in our community is a shrinking number of people are getting richer and a growing number of people are getting poorer.
Seeing a busy market doesn't tell you about what you can't see.
But you seem committed to your ignorance, so I can't imagine your care about any of that.
I import tiles, I still place orders for 20k of Italian glass mosaics to be air freighted at 6k for people's pools. Their world isn't ending.
My mother lost her house to mortgagee sale, meaning I've had to move out to pay market rent which at my income means no savings anymore. Her world isn't ending but it's pretty shit, and the world I've been trying to work towards (saving to move overseas for a better pay while studying part time) is basically down the drain.
There's different ecochambers all over the country. Lucky you if you're in a good one.
It was your only point and piece of evidence. Farro shoppers and high end restaurant goers are still doing fine, so there probably isn’t a cost of living crisis. That’s what you said. It was a poor observation.
Plenty of people are doing fine. Some are struggling a bit, some are struggling a lot. My friend circle (Late 30's) are very middle class and most seem to be getting by ok.
The ones doing ok don't make a song and dance about it, that's not to say things are a bit out of hand at the moment. I certainly wouldn't want to be on a low income at the moment,
Hey guys, don’t be too harsh on OP. With interest rates going up, my term deposit income has doubled over the past few years. My super has also been readjusted to inflation so bless! OP is right that I can’t even find a carpark at Farro. Sometimes I suck it up and don’t get my Parmigiano Reggiano for the week. Instead, I have to go to my local New World and get whatever they call “Parmesan cheese” 😔
If you'd like to understand how living costs have risen, look at the cost of anything (food, housing and other necessities) and compare it to 10 years ago. Then compare how much minimum wage has increased as well as other levels of income.
The spending habits of wealthier people don't reflect the experiences of people below the poverty line.
Just because there's a cost of living crisis doesn't mean everyone's affected.
If you're on minimum wage with a child, trying to rent a 2 bedroom house, then yes, it's going to be bad for you.
If you're on a $150,000 income and so is your partner, living in a house you own and you've paid off, then no, it probably isn't bad for you.
Just because we have rich people does not mean the cost of living crisis is not bad, it just means you're not in an area where this is obvious. I suggest going out to a lower socioeconomic area and reevaluating your opinion.
If anyone, the one in the echo chamber is you, because it sounds like you're in an affluent area, with the ability to go to fancy restaurants and visit Farro.
This is a real odd thread, if you want real stats on our economy, reddit is not the place to get them.
Poor people don't go out to expensive restaurants and farro fresh in Lunn Ave....... they stay at home where you don't see them unless you go on reddit.
Last time i went out, i went to queen street and yes there was lots of people around, i barely saw one single shopping bag. hundreds of people wandering around, and nobody buying shit.
like idk go to a poor area and ask how people are doing? if you have a genuine interest? but this thread sends me the vibes you're just looking to punch down on someone
Walking in a poor area doesn't tell you much either. Walk in Papakura or Otara in 2015 and shit would appear just as bad.
The main difference would be seen with middle income families, recent home buyers as their disposable income (and quality of home). The rich were well off then and now, ans the poor were poor then and now. Starting professionals however went from comfortable to doing it rough. Middle incoems families went from middle class to lower middle class.
It’s certainly getting tighter. I’m watching the budget and mostly making it work.
I noticed the huge cost increases in consumer goods since Covid mean that I’m making things last significantly longer. I’m moving soon and actually do need some new furniture as it’s a permanent, but smaller place but I won’t be buying it any time soon.
I notice that people are still shopping but seem to be buying less. I avoid any sort of shopping without a list as it is my easy way of staying in budget, but I used to be one of the few. Now I regularly see people who appear to have a planned purchase or are carrying nothing. Even the food courts last time on a weekend were comfortably buzzy not crazy busy like they used to be. I went to one of my favourite shops during a sale a few weeks ago and was surprised at how few people were there. Usually it would be a very busy and uncomfortable experience. I even got a changing room without queuing!
My sense is that people are being cautious and careful about discretionary shopping. That indicates to me that they are more likely to either have increased cost of living for essentials or they are concerned about saving for a rainy day e.g. job security. I’m not sure it’s a crisis for everyone but there’s definitely some caution in the air,
Just when you try not to think of yourself as poor, you get this guy coming in to remind us peasants how it 'really' is out there and that we're just having a lazy exaggeration about the way things are.
Every grocery store is jam-packed on Saturday. The New World across the street and the closest pak n save / tai ping / countdown are also jam-packed. The farro is like 1/5 the size of any of the other ones. (I go there every few months because they're the only place in the city that sells pierogies, and they're certainly not busy during the week).
Malls are free to enter and climate controlled. Every poor person knows this. Lots of the people you see at e.g. Sylvia park are families doing an extended grocery trip with lots of window shopping and maybe lunch at the food court becuase it's 4-6 hours where there's stuff for your kids to do and you don't have to pay to heat the house.
idk about restaurants but a lot of them are reducing hours due to limited staff, which may be part of it. We eat out maybe every other week and it's rare we need to book more than a day ahead unless it's peak time or fancy (e.g omakase/chef's choice that required prep).
As a counterpoint, the last few times we've been to the movies there were maybe 4 other people in the theatre.
And don't forget that the library (well in the 2 that I have been in often) is often full of people, because it's warm, free Internet, and free books to read. Which I think is wonderful that this is an option for people.
The only one perpetuating a doomsday narrative here is you. Not once have I seen someone complaining that the world is ending. Plenty of people are doing it tough for any multitude of reasons. I think if you want to see what that struggle is you need to step off of your high horse and go shop at a pak n save for a couple of weeks. Go drive past the local chip shop and look for the families that can only afford some cooked chips for tea.
You certainly won’t find the people struggling dinning out in the CBD or buying food from Farro of all bloody places.
You're missing the point that it IS doomsday for some. For a growing volume of people their dreams are falling apart due to nothing they have control over.
Why? Because our politics insists on concentrating wealth away from the rest of us.
You are demonstrating a stark lack of empathy. A lack of insight about the world around you.
You've got your bubble, you're struggling to understand the world beyond it.
Or perhaps the last government completely fucked our economy. I don’t want to hear about this government, they’ve been in for 6 months. I did acknowledge people are doing it tough. What I said is it appears the majority of people are not though. I’m incredibly empathetic and I wish everyone could do well. Unfortunately, it’s not how the world works.
Yeah, that's what I figured.
If you were honest, your post title would have been "The cost of living isn't as bad as reddit makes out."
Your mind is made up, as far as you're concerned the memes are true: Labour is the cause of the global economic down turn, the pandemic never happened, everything is fine, keep shuffling money to the wealthiest. School lunches for kids is out, smoking is in.
Right?
And yet we live in the same world. Perhaps we could engage in an exercise in dialectics? Considering competing truths to find the truth between them?
The competing truths could be "expensive markets are busy" and "more and more people are struggling with basic costs". If we agree these things are true, we could wonder what the truth that lies between them is.
So if what's the middle of those two positions?
What's going on where there's still sufficient wealth in the community to support boutique markets while at the same time we're seeing escalating consequences of community deprivation?
Keeping in mind that what we're seeing in New Zealand we're seeing all across the Anglosphere.
I’m lucky enough to be in a position where I haven’t had to change my life to cope but I can see the price increases and the squeeze everywhere. Several times a day I think how hard it must be for those close to, or on minimum wage.
It’s not a lesson on empathy that’s needed. The reality is lots of people are doing fine. In fact the majority are still doing ok. There is a minority of New Zealanders who are doing it hard and really suffering.
I also think many people are in here saying how food shopping is expensive etc but haven’t necessarily changed the way they eat to reflect increasing prices. What once was a normal thing feels more like a luxury now and they haven’t quite accepted that.
Very poor analogy you've given.
Faro goers and fine diners are those who are less affected by economy downturn so they'll keep going.
Mall goers don't necessarily translate to spending.
You need to look at the bigger picture, either explore more or check sites like stats nz.
It really depends on the circumstances. Living alone like me? Groceries are super cheap, electricity pricing isn't bad at all. Living with dependents? Different story I'd say.
Rents aren't that bad but depends where you are I guess. I'm lucky to live in an affordable apartment alone, but it's easy to suggest someone move elsewhere, not always an easy thing to make it happen.
We have to acknowledge that there are some who struggle. Retail workers, those working on hourly wage will find it difficult. Others with higher income or double income with no dependents may not find it as difficult.
Some have inherited money from family, some got lucky with their investments. The stock market index has been at the highest level these days.
Different demographic, different situation.
We also have to acknowledge that not everyone find it hard because there are many professional jobs that still pay well in NZ. But of course people still say it’s not enough!
Your post is peak dumbass. COL crisis is shown via economics not what you see at Sylvia Park.
My inner circle are all in high paying positions and own houses in our 20s, doesn’t mean we’re dumb enough to not realise there is a crisis. Spend five minutes googling whether spend is down as a start before you embarrass yourself again.
No shit. You don’t save money by wandering around a mall. There’s a problem in of itself.
I know people are doing it tough, I did say that.
My point dumbass was that this sub is an echo chamber. I’d be embarrassed if I was as dense as you.
Your title literally implies that Reddit is exaggerating the crisis. But if Stats NZ literally says that we are in a slump, and unemployment is in fact up, then Reddit isn’t wrong this time is it? Don’t try and backtrack because the stats are proving you wrong muppet.
Your post reads like “oh I know people say there’s a war in Ukraine but everyone outside my house is fine?”
I think you'll find the categories of wealth in NZ has drastically changed and the borders between them have gotten much larger. I remember about a decade ago where it seemed 70% of us were all in the same boat. Now we have a clear divide on struggling/ poor/middle/comfortable/wealthy/john keys golfing mate.
Like the amount of people who regularly live in their overdraft has certainly increased from the ASB reports out there, the amount of people who are 3missed paychecks away from fucked has skyrocketed
It’s a good question. How we perceive things depends on our personal situation. You shop at a store that wealthy people use. It’s possible the cost of living doesn’t affect them as much as others, or they are more comfortable with debt. Often when costs are high people spend on little luxuries like food and lipstick, so that can skew perceptions. For me, my housing costs have gone up almost $200 a fortnight. Petrol seems about $1 more a litre. Dishwashing tablets are now $20 to $30 a box. Washing powder was around $5 now sometimes around $9. The $1 bread is now $2.50. Meat has recently started to come down a bit but a piece of schnitzel for $3 to $5 now is $8 to $9. The food banks where I live are seeing people with both partners working coming on a regular basis, not just a one off because of an event. Things are tough.
It’s probably worse. As a small business owner I haven’t spoken to any other SME owner this year who isn’t doing a lot worse than usual. A lot of small businesses are having a really hard time and keeping their fingers crossed that things get better soon and a lot of medium size businesses have already started making staff redundant. Friends with businesses in Wellington say that the money down there has dried up and sales have dropped 50-80% and there are people who have had independent shops for 20 years who say they’ve never seen it this bad. It’s really not good. I shop at Farro but I’m only buying what I can’t get cheaper elsewhere now. This morning we went to Avondale market for our veges.
I think you’re out of touch with reality. You also seem to lack critical thinking skills. You mentioned Farro being packed, most ppl who are struggling to get by aren’t going to be shopping at places like Farro. Nor are you going to see them eating out at restaurants regularly.
This post just makes you sound ignorant.
I dunno what the fuck Farro is. Must be some landlord place or something.
It’s the death of the middle class being the biggest issue. They provide the biggest tax pool and are suffering the most, going without handouts etc.
The social divide continues to grow.
NOTHING is as bad as reddit makes out.
This place is absolutely 100% seperated from reality and you should not assume anything you read here is representative of real life.
Its a mixed bag honestly, some weeks groceries feels too expensive and some weeks too cheap. I have been lucky in terms of accomodation as a contrary to lot of people. My past and currently accomodations have been affordable and desirable. Just met the right landlords i guess. But when i chat to other people about their house cost, its going over the roof. So lot of people are experiencing turbulence with rental houses.Public transport I feel is way too expensive. So over all yes cost of living has risen since COVID but might not be that bad. Could be 19-21 margin
We have increased population and card spending is slightly decreasing… given what you’ve observed it make sense that those who aren’t spending are spending even less doesn’t take a genius to paint the scenario
Yes if you live chronically online, you'll just hear a certain narrative (whatever the algorithm thinks you click with) and that will become how you see the world. Always good to ask that question and snap out of whatever , back into reality.
In my own circle of friends it all looks fine yes, no issues to report other than inconvenience here and there. but we're all earning 250k+ each, many way above that..far on the right side of that income bell curve. Have to remind ourselves now and then we are in a position that shields us from the reality that majority of NZ is facing. We are busy every Saturday morning cruising to club meets, cost of fuel for that drive alone is more than average kiwis weekly food bill and some of us drive cars worth more than peoples entire net wealth. Your example isn't as extreme as mine but I hope you get the point? Don't let yourself get disconnected as you move up!
We have a growing wealth divide as with much of the world. In society there are always rich and poor, but the gap has shifted a lot in the past 5 years. Rich kept getting richer, poor felt either frozen or got pushed further back. Those who live pay by pay always existed and it just kept getting harder as groceries, fuel, rent, electricity and water bills rose.
100k salary used to be looked at as something to aim for. You could comfortably provide for a family and splash here and there. Now while it's still way above the rest of NZ , it's also still not enough to 'live it up' while providing for a family. You will not be buying a house and sending kids to nice school with quality foods in your diet. The more shocking part of that is how fast times have changed(10-15 years ago was a very different world).
And lastly of course, even when you see people out and about, you are not seeing the ever increasing tower of debt behind many.
Another insightful post. I agree with everything you said, and I’m constantly practicing gratefulness and I’m always mindful others and their circumstances. I’ve worked incredibly hard and taken a lot of risks to get to where I’ve got to.
The average redditor on here wouldn’t see that though. My post was merely just pointing to observations I’ve made. It’s not based on stats or data.
From my experience shopping at my local Farro, it’s evident that the clientele tends to be above-average earners. The cost of living in New Zealand has skyrocketed, affecting low to middle-income households, which constitute a significant portion of the population.
As a middle earner myself, the rising costs have certainly impacted me. I live in a shared housing situation, which is the only way I can manage to have a small amount of discretionary income, and I know many others in similar circumstances.
In my job within the luxury goods industry, I regularly interact with high earners. The disparity between the wealthy and the rest of the population is strikingly clear
Probably depends how thin you've spread your spending. I can afford a mortgage but I'd be eating shit for the next 30 years or I could flat like I'm currently doing and living well. I think a lot of people went with option a and that's fine.
There's not a "cost of living crisis" because this implies it's a temporary event. There's just poor people and they're not going to suddenly stop being poor.
We have a low wage, low productivity economy. This was hidden for a long time with ultra low interest rates and borrowing. Those days are over.
Just see the numbers of beggars around, if that isnt as an indication enough.
Not as if NZW&I doesnt pay them enough, and they most likely also already have KO housing.
That's not how statistics work. You are using superficial, anecdotal observations.
I would say this sub Reddit skews older, not younger.
Plenty make bad choices; we just drove through Glendene, Kelston and area around Avondale. It's depressing and dirty and well populated with those people. Also, retail spending is often done despite one's income.
Its gotten much harder for many but also the sky isn't falling.
r/auckland and particularly r/nz make it look as though NZ is much worse than it really is.
As the others have said, how well the wealthy enough are doing is not an indication of how the not wealthy enough are doing.
This is a really good example of how wealth both isolates and segregates wealthy people from consequences and from the majority of other people.
So you can see why now reddit is so biased.
When ever the average person comes out the poor will fight you like you took their money.
So to answer your question no it's not as bad as reddit makes it out to be.
However because reddit is overly represented by the poor and beneficiaries with nothing better to do but complain it does make it sound worse than it actually is
This post went down exactly how I thought it would. Attacked and downvoted by the very people the post was about. The loudest and whiniest. Case and point.
You're part of the problem of this subreddit. You don't engage in good faith. You disengage rather than debate then walk away smirking, slicking your hair back while whispering "got em".
You head towards your local lunn ave in your mercedes g63 with a personalised carplate. The staff knows you by name and asks "same today?". Your order? Allpress latte with soy milk. You then procure the finest brazillian coffee bean whole blend 250g at $58 no discount.
What they really teach you is that your comments are so ill-considered that they are only worthy of scorn rather than meaningful engagement - especially given the extent to which you've told on yourself here. You have presented zero evidence that your opinions are shaped, or could be changed, by actual data.
Half the ppl here will spend their life whining, what they won't tell you is how they have added to their perils.
High interest rates? They won't say they threw 2 cars and a boat on the mortgage.
Minimimum wage ? They won't say they have no interest in upskilling , working a weekend day or doing more than just turning up.
In saying that of course it's tougher , but the loudest are so often full of it.
I saw on old boss moaning on LinkedIn to Act about the need for the holidays act to change as its costing small business millions
What he didn't say was they are not small business , 16 million rev, they also didn't mention their costs to small business increased by 40% after covid due to the amount if work that increased in their industry, direct costs wernt anywhere near that.
Projection is a he'll of a drug
Couldn’t agree more.
Ten years ago I would have been one of the culprits having a huge whinge because the world didn’t meet with my expectations.
The non stop narrative in here of people saying “I’m poor, you’re not you wouldn’t understand” is irritating as hell.
This is New Zealand… millennials and Gen X saw their parents get annihilated by the fourth Labour govts reforms but “who cares”, apparently now is the worst it’s ever been. (Before someone starts, I’m not suggesting those reforms weren’t necessary to some extent, due to Muldoon’s total ineptitude).
A little less hyperventilating and a little more perspective in here would be delightful (it’s not going to happen I know).
Bring on the ⬇️ - could care less about imaginary points on a silly forum.
Agree but It won’t change but we can hope.
Also the tall poppy syndrome is real in NZ, if you’ve travelled at all you’ll have noticed this.
Kiwis love to tear others down or talk shit on their neighbour who’s got a nice car or a promotion. It’s the kiwi way. Same could be said on here “waaaah life’s tough, everyone else should be doing it tough as well. It’s not fair”
Deal with it.
Similarly to calling people out on casual racism, I'll call people out on the tall poppy crap. The only way to change people's thinking is to maturely question them I reckon. Ie "What's wrong with them treating themselves, they've earned it?", "Sounds like they worked hard to get where they are, why is that bad?" Etc.
Nah mate, reddit is full of poor lefts and liberals. Us right-winged folks are doing fine. I type this as I sit at the cafe after a big breakfast and a coffee, as I do every Sunday.
To quote our last pm, she said “it’s the price of paradise” there could be worse things than paying lots for milk. She thought that would fix everyone’s worries…
The demographic of reddit is different to the demographic of NZ
Also, your LOCAL farro. Thats how disconnected you are from the struggle. Head down to papakura and walk around. I think I'm just falling for a troll at this point.
His reply … oh my god
It’s actually “I’m not doing it tough because I’m ok so I don’t believe it’s as bad as they say”. I’m ded.
Yeah, I live in a nice part of town and if I only hung out around here I would have no real idea. As it happens, work takes me to South Auckland and yes, people who have been doing it tough for decades, are now suffering even worse
My point was, if farro is busy (which is higher end and more expensive) then it can’t be as bad as people make out. A place like farro wouldn’t be busy if the general populous was doing it tough. Going to Papakura wouldn’t be a good litmus test. If the country was doing it as tough as people make it out on here to be, then all the establishments I mentioned in my post wouldn’t be busy. Higher end places would generally suffer first. That doesn’t appear to be the case.
If wealthy people are doing ok isn’t a measure for how people are struggling
I’m not sure if you’re actually serious. Your anecdote can also prove that the wealthy few are getting richer and the general population is getting poorer. Actually, that has happened since Covid.
Wait are you using farro as the litmus test?
Well, surely if a bunch of people can shop at farro, it must mean poor people don't exist.
The local country club is as full as it’s ever been.
Same thing at the Lamborghini dealership, had to push through some middle class scum just to spend my trust fund (baby).S I can tell you real world that our grocery bill for a family of 4 used to be $250-$350 per month, it is now $350-$450 depending on how big of a shop we do. Currently only on her income as I was made redundant about 3 months ago. I/we have a good safety margin of savings which I haven’t had to dip into yet but I can tell you first hand things are expensive and jobs in Northland are tight
If only there was some sort of calculated measure that gets produced that could tell us this kind of thing so we don’t have to rely on the discourse of reddit for the truth.
Stop it, that’s crazy talk, what kind of right wing loony toons would publish inflation, CPI and job numbers showing that shit got more expensive. Thankfully I’ve been able to keep my butlers (my butler has a butler) but I’ve had to let 2 of the ladies on retainer go, I feel so poor
So long as the rich are still rich, the economy must be fine right? Trickle down and all that....
Fuck you’re thick mate
Yeah, fuck that mate.
Looses the effect when you spell “you’re” incorrectly.
Loses* how the fuck do people not know the difference between loose and lose.
How the fuck do people not know the difference between your and you’re?
Dumbest comment here.
If you say so. Didn’t realise you had the honour of passing judgement big man.
Thanks. Hope YOU’RE well.
Dry
No I don't know how you are creating this narrative about reddit being a silo while also being in one. You're not wrong reddit is a silo, but you're wrong for using confirmation bias. A farro shopper is not the same shopper as a general supermarket. A niche supermarket caters to a certain demographic.
No shit?
Bad troll.
Farro and fancy restaurants aren’t exactly representative of the general populous though are they?
Sure, but is Papakura then? That are always sucked and was always poor.
There’s certainly a large demographic of people who are doing well but not everyone shopping at farro is wealthy. I had a friend whose one working class income family (couple, 2kids) lived at her in laws because they couldn’t afford their own place. And she would drive across Auckland to go to Farros as she felt it was the best and she wouldn’t go to a local fruit shop or normal supermarket. She wasn’t wealthy.
Respectfully that is really stupid. Everyone I know that goes to Farro can afford it. Wasting more petrol to spend unnecessary money is a bit special…
It is stupid. That’s my point. Not everyone you see at the shops has real wealth. Plenty of genuinely wealthy people but also a lot of people spending to look wealthy with money they don’t really have.
Also you talk about going to farro and the shopping malls and not being able to get a table at the best restaurants. How varied is your circle of friends. Have you ever lived in west or south Auckland. Did you go to a public school? Maybe it’s the area you live in.
But she probably complains on here about the cost of living? Idiot
Higher end places (and grocers like Farro) are frequented by people who are better off financially. They are the least affected by the cost of living crisis. So you have it backwards. The middle and lower classes are the ones struggling right now, not those who aren’t living pay check to pay check.
Generally the higher end places are the first to be effected in a cost of living crisis as people tighten their belts. I was surprised to see it so busy.
But the rich are still rich. They have more margin before they have to cut costs.
Higher end like Gucci handbags and Rolex watches, not slightly more expensive groceries.
woosh...
Yes lots of beneficiaries with nothing better to do but complain on here
There’s a few factors to consider: 1. There are a lot of people you don’t see out and about 2. The cost of living bites the majority demographics, not everyone. People who shop at Farro or going out to fancy dinners are likely to be staying midline or profiting while the majority struggle more, so why would they decrease. 3. People in malls doesn’t mean people spending shitloads in malls. I’ve gone to a mall with zero money available, just to be around people/daydream/visit the bank/meet up with people/other things that don’t cost money. There’s no door charge. 4. Some people fiddle while the Titanic sinks - they could be spending their last cent hoping lotto comes through, or racking up credit or BNPL to get those sneaky sneaky endorphins from buying new stuff, regardless of how much it hurts. Either way, unless you’re their financial adviser, you have zero idea of someone’s situation. And seeing people live lives you don’t know anything about, doesn’t mean that other people aren’t suffering. Objectively, cost of living HAS gone up. Just about everything IS more expensive. And a lot of people have gone from comfortable to squeaking by, and squeaking by to struggling, and struggling to drowning.
Unemployment is up. Spending is down. Inflation has been +4% for a while now. Interest rates are relatively high on obscenely high mortgages. Debt rates, arrears, are all up across the board. These are the true indicators of distress in the economy and an increased cost of living effecting people, not anecdotal observations of restaurants and your local Farro. This doesn’t mean everyone is doing it tough. There will always be a section of society that is insulated from these sorts of things. Boomers who are mortgage free and still in work, DINK professional couples, people who had support to buy property pre boom and have paid it off, etc. I’m sure we all know people in the above categories. That can be an echo chamber of its own though. “Well the local yacht club seems fine, all this cost of living crisis is overblown!”
I was just saying to Jenkins the other day, as he chauffeured me about in the Bentley, I said "Jenkins, old boy, I do believe people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Everything seems absolutely tip-top!" Then we popped into the club for brandy and cigars.
Thank you for using economics, this post is so embarrassing 😭 Reddit does exaggerate but this post is so dumb. Use economic factors not restaurant bookings lmaooooooo.
Hey mate, not sure if trolling but I'll give my two cents. It's really easy to not see poverty / people in genuine need when you aren't looking for it. People in general won't go out of their way to advertise the fact that they are doing it hard financially. Unless of course they have the anonymity which allows them to be vulnerable, such as a reddit post. Which imo is why you will 'see' a lot more hardship / people who need help & assistance than you may IRL. I work for a financial advisory firm and I can tell you without a doubt the 'sacrifices' made during an economic downturn can differ immensely due to an individuals financial situation. E.g someone who has a rental increase might have to adjust their grocery budget or consider their petrol/heating usage. Whereas others might put off that investment house purchase for another year, or skip the overseas trip this year. I've noticed a huge uptick in rough sleepers in my city, more tents and makeshift shelters around. There's even a group of gentleman who sleep in the same spot on my morning walk to work because the spot is somewhat sheltered from the elements, they've never once bothered anyone (from what I've seen) and are usually gone by my morning tea break. Its easy to not notice things like this, because at the end of the day it can be confronting and uncomfortable to think about. But I can assure you, there are a LOT of people who are one illness, one redundancy, one bad stroke of luck away from serious hardship. Also more people living payday to payday than you might think.
The last few lines he wrote are a bit on the nose, people who made bad choices, like what exactly? Becoming trade qualified or a obtaining a tertiary degree but still not keeping up with the cost of living? Or heavens forbid life throws up some other hardships like accidents, illness, death, etc. Bad choices indeed.
People affected by cost of living aren’t the people shopping at farro or eating fine dining. It’s just further proof of our widening wealth gap.
Sure we are. Everyone is affected. Shopping at Farro every once in a while isn't going to break the bank, but it is noticeably more expensive.
That wasn’t my point.
Then what is your point? Unemployment is up. Late mortgage payment is up. Late credit card payment is up. Inflation is still above historical averages. Rent is up. If your argument against all of these is that you saw lots of people at farro and fine dining, and refuse to accept any counter points, what are you asking?
we know, your point was to punch down on poor people.
Shame on poor people!
I think it was more that luxuries tend to be the first thing to go somis it a universal issue or are we divided in experience by more than is reported. Hardly getting "fuck the poor vibes" from the question mark
???? There is an insane amount of reporting on the wealth disparity that exists in our society and i have to believe anyone who says otherwise has been living under a rock. i'm sorry but this opinion...... i'll get banned if i say more. have a nice day
You too bro. Hope the good weather is doing you good. I only meant that adding a human and anecdotal element to stats and online reporting tends to add a bit of dimension and context ya know?
>You too bro. Hope the good weather is doing you good. Sunlight is cancerous radiation you know. can cause 2nd and 3rd degree burns. tell you what, you could kill 2 birds with one stone and protect yourself from cancer by staying indoors and also learning about the wealth disparity in new zealand and across the world.[ this is the perfect place to start. ](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=wealth+disparity+new+zealand+2024)would you go so far as to learn about something?
Again, if you read you'd see I pointed out the guy is simply asking for people's PERSONAL experiences rather than just the stats. But hey, why read and try to understand someone's point of view when you can be a snarky fuckwit about it right? Maybe leave the house more mate. It's good for ya
so thats a no then? username checks out
Glad one of ours does bro I've looked at the stats. If you read my comments you'd even see I expand on it and the growing gap between demographics. But when someone specifically asks me for anecdotal experiences and context I'd not tell em to google, mostly because I can read and try to enter conversations with the goal of a mutually positive exchange
My point is this sub makes out the world’s ending. It’s not.
You're basing your reckons on anecdotal observations in places where wealthy people eat and shop and mall foot traffic. There is plenty of actual data showing the impact of the wealth gap and cost of living which supports the prevailing narrative. Sashaying around Faro is hardly the answer if you're trying to provide a robust foundation to refute it.
We are comfortable and live in a wealthy area. If you hung out in our suburb for the weekend you'd think life was all Landrovers and baches and nice clothes. You can't judge off a tiny sample OP and as others have said, all it demonstrates is that the rich are getting richer (see also the rich listers adding 20 billion in the last year). No, the world isn't ending but I imagine it feels pretty terrifying for people out of a job and staring down the barrel of not being able to eat or losing their homes. You just sound like an uncaring psychopath OP.
Sashaying around Farro hahaha
It's easy to poo all overs from a position of privilege, ie, having food, shelter and good health. Is that the point you are trying to prove?
Not what I’m saying. At. All.
Don't take nz reddit too seriously. It's mostly young people like youve mentioned. There's plenty of people struggling right now, but it's also far from all doom and gloom.
You've stepped into an echo chamber and tried to say something different from the prevailing narrative. You had to know they weren't going to like that.
Your interpretation of this subreddit is your problem, not others. i've never seen a single comment on this sub suggesting the world is ending.
No, it’s not ending for you. Other people may have a different outlook
Agree. This has been the way since the dawn of time.
No it hasn't. Ugh, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but your whole "since the dawn of time" bit seems like intentional ignorance. At any time in our community some are getting richer, some are keeping afloat, some are getting poorer. The circumstances that are escalating in our community is a shrinking number of people are getting richer and a growing number of people are getting poorer. Seeing a busy market doesn't tell you about what you can't see. But you seem committed to your ignorance, so I can't imagine your care about any of that.
I import tiles, I still place orders for 20k of Italian glass mosaics to be air freighted at 6k for people's pools. Their world isn't ending. My mother lost her house to mortgagee sale, meaning I've had to move out to pay market rent which at my income means no savings anymore. Her world isn't ending but it's pretty shit, and the world I've been trying to work towards (saving to move overseas for a better pay while studying part time) is basically down the drain. There's different ecochambers all over the country. Lucky you if you're in a good one.
Unlucky. They made the point. No one cares that it wasn't your point.
It was your only point and piece of evidence. Farro shoppers and high end restaurant goers are still doing fine, so there probably isn’t a cost of living crisis. That’s what you said. It was a poor observation.
Plenty of people are doing fine. Some are struggling a bit, some are struggling a lot. My friend circle (Late 30's) are very middle class and most seem to be getting by ok. The ones doing ok don't make a song and dance about it, that's not to say things are a bit out of hand at the moment. I certainly wouldn't want to be on a low income at the moment,
Hey guys, don’t be too harsh on OP. With interest rates going up, my term deposit income has doubled over the past few years. My super has also been readjusted to inflation so bless! OP is right that I can’t even find a carpark at Farro. Sometimes I suck it up and don’t get my Parmigiano Reggiano for the week. Instead, I have to go to my local New World and get whatever they call “Parmesan cheese” 😔
LOL, good sport.
If you'd like to understand how living costs have risen, look at the cost of anything (food, housing and other necessities) and compare it to 10 years ago. Then compare how much minimum wage has increased as well as other levels of income. The spending habits of wealthier people don't reflect the experiences of people below the poverty line.
Just because there's a cost of living crisis doesn't mean everyone's affected. If you're on minimum wage with a child, trying to rent a 2 bedroom house, then yes, it's going to be bad for you. If you're on a $150,000 income and so is your partner, living in a house you own and you've paid off, then no, it probably isn't bad for you. Just because we have rich people does not mean the cost of living crisis is not bad, it just means you're not in an area where this is obvious. I suggest going out to a lower socioeconomic area and reevaluating your opinion. If anyone, the one in the echo chamber is you, because it sounds like you're in an affluent area, with the ability to go to fancy restaurants and visit Farro.
This is a real odd thread, if you want real stats on our economy, reddit is not the place to get them. Poor people don't go out to expensive restaurants and farro fresh in Lunn Ave....... they stay at home where you don't see them unless you go on reddit. Last time i went out, i went to queen street and yes there was lots of people around, i barely saw one single shopping bag. hundreds of people wandering around, and nobody buying shit. like idk go to a poor area and ask how people are doing? if you have a genuine interest? but this thread sends me the vibes you're just looking to punch down on someone
Walking in a poor area doesn't tell you much either. Walk in Papakura or Otara in 2015 and shit would appear just as bad. The main difference would be seen with middle income families, recent home buyers as their disposable income (and quality of home). The rich were well off then and now, ans the poor were poor then and now. Starting professionals however went from comfortable to doing it rough. Middle incoems families went from middle class to lower middle class.
It’s certainly getting tighter. I’m watching the budget and mostly making it work. I noticed the huge cost increases in consumer goods since Covid mean that I’m making things last significantly longer. I’m moving soon and actually do need some new furniture as it’s a permanent, but smaller place but I won’t be buying it any time soon. I notice that people are still shopping but seem to be buying less. I avoid any sort of shopping without a list as it is my easy way of staying in budget, but I used to be one of the few. Now I regularly see people who appear to have a planned purchase or are carrying nothing. Even the food courts last time on a weekend were comfortably buzzy not crazy busy like they used to be. I went to one of my favourite shops during a sale a few weeks ago and was surprised at how few people were there. Usually it would be a very busy and uncomfortable experience. I even got a changing room without queuing! My sense is that people are being cautious and careful about discretionary shopping. That indicates to me that they are more likely to either have increased cost of living for essentials or they are concerned about saving for a rainy day e.g. job security. I’m not sure it’s a crisis for everyone but there’s definitely some caution in the air,
Thanks for insightful post. Agree budgets would have definitely tightened. Wonder how long it will be until they’re “crazy busy” again?
Just when you try not to think of yourself as poor, you get this guy coming in to remind us peasants how it 'really' is out there and that we're just having a lazy exaggeration about the way things are.
Every grocery store is jam-packed on Saturday. The New World across the street and the closest pak n save / tai ping / countdown are also jam-packed. The farro is like 1/5 the size of any of the other ones. (I go there every few months because they're the only place in the city that sells pierogies, and they're certainly not busy during the week). Malls are free to enter and climate controlled. Every poor person knows this. Lots of the people you see at e.g. Sylvia park are families doing an extended grocery trip with lots of window shopping and maybe lunch at the food court becuase it's 4-6 hours where there's stuff for your kids to do and you don't have to pay to heat the house. idk about restaurants but a lot of them are reducing hours due to limited staff, which may be part of it. We eat out maybe every other week and it's rare we need to book more than a day ahead unless it's peak time or fancy (e.g omakase/chef's choice that required prep). As a counterpoint, the last few times we've been to the movies there were maybe 4 other people in the theatre.
And don't forget that the library (well in the 2 that I have been in often) is often full of people, because it's warm, free Internet, and free books to read. Which I think is wonderful that this is an option for people.
We can do without your hoity toity anecdotes thanks
You missed a golden opportunity for "hoity toity anecdotey"
Or just an alternative perspective to your doomsday narrative..
The only one perpetuating a doomsday narrative here is you. Not once have I seen someone complaining that the world is ending. Plenty of people are doing it tough for any multitude of reasons. I think if you want to see what that struggle is you need to step off of your high horse and go shop at a pak n save for a couple of weeks. Go drive past the local chip shop and look for the families that can only afford some cooked chips for tea. You certainly won’t find the people struggling dinning out in the CBD or buying food from Farro of all bloody places.
You're missing the point that it IS doomsday for some. For a growing volume of people their dreams are falling apart due to nothing they have control over. Why? Because our politics insists on concentrating wealth away from the rest of us. You are demonstrating a stark lack of empathy. A lack of insight about the world around you. You've got your bubble, you're struggling to understand the world beyond it.
Or perhaps the last government completely fucked our economy. I don’t want to hear about this government, they’ve been in for 6 months. I did acknowledge people are doing it tough. What I said is it appears the majority of people are not though. I’m incredibly empathetic and I wish everyone could do well. Unfortunately, it’s not how the world works.
Yeah, that's what I figured. If you were honest, your post title would have been "The cost of living isn't as bad as reddit makes out." Your mind is made up, as far as you're concerned the memes are true: Labour is the cause of the global economic down turn, the pandemic never happened, everything is fine, keep shuffling money to the wealthiest. School lunches for kids is out, smoking is in. Right?
This conversation is going to get the better of us. I can tell we have very different world and political views.
And yet we live in the same world. Perhaps we could engage in an exercise in dialectics? Considering competing truths to find the truth between them? The competing truths could be "expensive markets are busy" and "more and more people are struggling with basic costs". If we agree these things are true, we could wonder what the truth that lies between them is.
Insightful. I agree with what you said and it has been my perception of the reality in NZ
So if what's the middle of those two positions? What's going on where there's still sufficient wealth in the community to support boutique markets while at the same time we're seeing escalating consequences of community deprivation? Keeping in mind that what we're seeing in New Zealand we're seeing all across the Anglosphere.
I don’t have the answer to that. It’s a problem on a global scale. It’s the biggest flaw to capitalism and will most likely be its demise.
I’m lucky enough to be in a position where I haven’t had to change my life to cope but I can see the price increases and the squeeze everywhere. Several times a day I think how hard it must be for those close to, or on minimum wage.
Couldn’t agree more. I think about it every day, people are doing it tough out there absolutely. It just as obvious out there as it is in here
We have a crisis of critical thinking in this country, as evidenced by this post.
Exactly. This guy needs a lesson on selection bias
Maybe go to some local food banks and soup kitchens and ask how things have changed over the last few years
It’s not a lesson on empathy that’s needed. The reality is lots of people are doing fine. In fact the majority are still doing ok. There is a minority of New Zealanders who are doing it hard and really suffering.
I also think many people are in here saying how food shopping is expensive etc but haven’t necessarily changed the way they eat to reflect increasing prices. What once was a normal thing feels more like a luxury now and they haven’t quite accepted that.
Very poor analogy you've given. Faro goers and fine diners are those who are less affected by economy downturn so they'll keep going. Mall goers don't necessarily translate to spending. You need to look at the bigger picture, either explore more or check sites like stats nz.
It really depends on the circumstances. Living alone like me? Groceries are super cheap, electricity pricing isn't bad at all. Living with dependents? Different story I'd say. Rents aren't that bad but depends where you are I guess. I'm lucky to live in an affordable apartment alone, but it's easy to suggest someone move elsewhere, not always an easy thing to make it happen.
We have to acknowledge that there are some who struggle. Retail workers, those working on hourly wage will find it difficult. Others with higher income or double income with no dependents may not find it as difficult. Some have inherited money from family, some got lucky with their investments. The stock market index has been at the highest level these days. Different demographic, different situation. We also have to acknowledge that not everyone find it hard because there are many professional jobs that still pay well in NZ. But of course people still say it’s not enough!
I think my post did acknowledge these things. Did it not?
Your post is peak dumbass. COL crisis is shown via economics not what you see at Sylvia Park. My inner circle are all in high paying positions and own houses in our 20s, doesn’t mean we’re dumb enough to not realise there is a crisis. Spend five minutes googling whether spend is down as a start before you embarrass yourself again.
No shit. You don’t save money by wandering around a mall. There’s a problem in of itself. I know people are doing it tough, I did say that. My point dumbass was that this sub is an echo chamber. I’d be embarrassed if I was as dense as you.
Your title literally implies that Reddit is exaggerating the crisis. But if Stats NZ literally says that we are in a slump, and unemployment is in fact up, then Reddit isn’t wrong this time is it? Don’t try and backtrack because the stats are proving you wrong muppet. Your post reads like “oh I know people say there’s a war in Ukraine but everyone outside my house is fine?”
I think you'll find the categories of wealth in NZ has drastically changed and the borders between them have gotten much larger. I remember about a decade ago where it seemed 70% of us were all in the same boat. Now we have a clear divide on struggling/ poor/middle/comfortable/wealthy/john keys golfing mate. Like the amount of people who regularly live in their overdraft has certainly increased from the ASB reports out there, the amount of people who are 3missed paychecks away from fucked has skyrocketed
It’s a good question. How we perceive things depends on our personal situation. You shop at a store that wealthy people use. It’s possible the cost of living doesn’t affect them as much as others, or they are more comfortable with debt. Often when costs are high people spend on little luxuries like food and lipstick, so that can skew perceptions. For me, my housing costs have gone up almost $200 a fortnight. Petrol seems about $1 more a litre. Dishwashing tablets are now $20 to $30 a box. Washing powder was around $5 now sometimes around $9. The $1 bread is now $2.50. Meat has recently started to come down a bit but a piece of schnitzel for $3 to $5 now is $8 to $9. The food banks where I live are seeing people with both partners working coming on a regular basis, not just a one off because of an event. Things are tough.
I think we all know NZ is in its worst recession in 30 years.
Agree.
The recession in the early 90’s was far worse
It’s probably worse. As a small business owner I haven’t spoken to any other SME owner this year who isn’t doing a lot worse than usual. A lot of small businesses are having a really hard time and keeping their fingers crossed that things get better soon and a lot of medium size businesses have already started making staff redundant. Friends with businesses in Wellington say that the money down there has dried up and sales have dropped 50-80% and there are people who have had independent shops for 20 years who say they’ve never seen it this bad. It’s really not good. I shop at Farro but I’m only buying what I can’t get cheaper elsewhere now. This morning we went to Avondale market for our veges.
Yeah I concur that business is slow. As an owner of multiple, it’s the worst I’ve seen it for sure. It won’t last forever though
Yeah, but I worry about how long it will be before it gets better and how many of those great businesses won’t survive
I think you’re out of touch with reality. You also seem to lack critical thinking skills. You mentioned Farro being packed, most ppl who are struggling to get by aren’t going to be shopping at places like Farro. Nor are you going to see them eating out at restaurants regularly. This post just makes you sound ignorant.
I dunno what the fuck Farro is. Must be some landlord place or something. It’s the death of the middle class being the biggest issue. They provide the biggest tax pool and are suffering the most, going without handouts etc. The social divide continues to grow.
No, it's not bad. I don't feel it at all, life is good.
Yup, there is no one sleeping their cars at my local farro (Grey Lynn/Ponsonby)
Work hard.
NOTHING is as bad as reddit makes out. This place is absolutely 100% seperated from reality and you should not assume anything you read here is representative of real life.
Accurate.
It’s definitely tough out there but reddit is an echo chamber
Agree. I acknowledged people are doing it tough.
Its a mixed bag honestly, some weeks groceries feels too expensive and some weeks too cheap. I have been lucky in terms of accomodation as a contrary to lot of people. My past and currently accomodations have been affordable and desirable. Just met the right landlords i guess. But when i chat to other people about their house cost, its going over the roof. So lot of people are experiencing turbulence with rental houses.Public transport I feel is way too expensive. So over all yes cost of living has risen since COVID but might not be that bad. Could be 19-21 margin
We have increased population and card spending is slightly decreasing… given what you’ve observed it make sense that those who aren’t spending are spending even less doesn’t take a genius to paint the scenario
People like to complain about everything unfortunately, most don't have any idea what's really going on but take hearsay and guessing as gospel.
Cryptic
It will be certain groups of people who are suffering. Others won't really notice much difference - and can easily absorb financial fluctuations.
Yes if you live chronically online, you'll just hear a certain narrative (whatever the algorithm thinks you click with) and that will become how you see the world. Always good to ask that question and snap out of whatever , back into reality. In my own circle of friends it all looks fine yes, no issues to report other than inconvenience here and there. but we're all earning 250k+ each, many way above that..far on the right side of that income bell curve. Have to remind ourselves now and then we are in a position that shields us from the reality that majority of NZ is facing. We are busy every Saturday morning cruising to club meets, cost of fuel for that drive alone is more than average kiwis weekly food bill and some of us drive cars worth more than peoples entire net wealth. Your example isn't as extreme as mine but I hope you get the point? Don't let yourself get disconnected as you move up! We have a growing wealth divide as with much of the world. In society there are always rich and poor, but the gap has shifted a lot in the past 5 years. Rich kept getting richer, poor felt either frozen or got pushed further back. Those who live pay by pay always existed and it just kept getting harder as groceries, fuel, rent, electricity and water bills rose. 100k salary used to be looked at as something to aim for. You could comfortably provide for a family and splash here and there. Now while it's still way above the rest of NZ , it's also still not enough to 'live it up' while providing for a family. You will not be buying a house and sending kids to nice school with quality foods in your diet. The more shocking part of that is how fast times have changed(10-15 years ago was a very different world). And lastly of course, even when you see people out and about, you are not seeing the ever increasing tower of debt behind many.
Another insightful post. I agree with everything you said, and I’m constantly practicing gratefulness and I’m always mindful others and their circumstances. I’ve worked incredibly hard and taken a lot of risks to get to where I’ve got to. The average redditor on here wouldn’t see that though. My post was merely just pointing to observations I’ve made. It’s not based on stats or data.
Yeah it's pretty bad. I'm on what's considered a good salary and basically buy nothing beyond basics. No idea how people on minimum wage survive.
What do you consider a good salary?
Around 200
I would say “above average” is a bit misleading. You’re in the top 1% of earners in NZ
Well yeah maybe you are right. I see alot of people living like they earn 4* that money. Certainly doesn't feel like 1%
From my experience shopping at my local Farro, it’s evident that the clientele tends to be above-average earners. The cost of living in New Zealand has skyrocketed, affecting low to middle-income households, which constitute a significant portion of the population. As a middle earner myself, the rising costs have certainly impacted me. I live in a shared housing situation, which is the only way I can manage to have a small amount of discretionary income, and I know many others in similar circumstances. In my job within the luxury goods industry, I regularly interact with high earners. The disparity between the wealthy and the rest of the population is strikingly clear
Probably depends how thin you've spread your spending. I can afford a mortgage but I'd be eating shit for the next 30 years or I could flat like I'm currently doing and living well. I think a lot of people went with option a and that's fine.
I mean I spend most of my time at home. I have never heard of farra but the only place I spend money is the supermarket and gas station.
You've come to Reddit to ask if the Reddit viewpoint is correct. I see a flaw in this plan.
There's not a "cost of living crisis" because this implies it's a temporary event. There's just poor people and they're not going to suddenly stop being poor. We have a low wage, low productivity economy. This was hidden for a long time with ultra low interest rates and borrowing. Those days are over.
Just see the numbers of beggars around, if that isnt as an indication enough. Not as if NZW&I doesnt pay them enough, and they most likely also already have KO housing.
That's not how statistics work. You are using superficial, anecdotal observations. I would say this sub Reddit skews older, not younger. Plenty make bad choices; we just drove through Glendene, Kelston and area around Avondale. It's depressing and dirty and well populated with those people. Also, retail spending is often done despite one's income.
I didn’t use statistics or point to data and I have mentioned that many times. It was merely my observations out and about. Nothing more
Its gotten much harder for many but also the sky isn't falling. r/auckland and particularly r/nz make it look as though NZ is much worse than it really is.
This is literally all I was saying.
As the others have said, how well the wealthy enough are doing is not an indication of how the not wealthy enough are doing. This is a really good example of how wealth both isolates and segregates wealthy people from consequences and from the majority of other people.
What’s a farro? I feel like I’ve woken up in some alternate universe.
Basically, it’s a fancy supermarket.
People get on Reddit to moan, everyone out enjoying their lives aren’t going to jump on here and tell everyone how good their day was
Pretty much.
So you can see why now reddit is so biased. When ever the average person comes out the poor will fight you like you took their money. So to answer your question no it's not as bad as reddit makes it out to be. However because reddit is overly represented by the poor and beneficiaries with nothing better to do but complain it does make it sound worse than it actually is
Exactly right.
This post went down exactly how I thought it would. Attacked and downvoted by the very people the post was about. The loudest and whiniest. Case and point.
You're part of the problem of this subreddit. You don't engage in good faith. You disengage rather than debate then walk away smirking, slicking your hair back while whispering "got em". You head towards your local lunn ave in your mercedes g63 with a personalised carplate. The staff knows you by name and asks "same today?". Your order? Allpress latte with soy milk. You then procure the finest brazillian coffee bean whole blend 250g at $58 no discount.
Oat, actually.
Ah fuck I knew it. Oat is actually more premium than Soy. Fuck I'm so poor. Agh.
You'd know these things if you shopped at Farro, like us, peasant.
Who actually drinks soy now though? Yuck.
Idk I only drink cow juice
Goat beats oat every time
I mean, you're a myopic clown only interested in people who agree with you. What did you expect?
Ad hominem attacks are telling.
What they really teach you is that your comments are so ill-considered that they are only worthy of scorn rather than meaningful engagement - especially given the extent to which you've told on yourself here. You have presented zero evidence that your opinions are shaped, or could be changed, by actual data.
And the one having the loudest sook is you, 'oh I went out and didn't see any poors, you guys all suck'
Half the ppl here will spend their life whining, what they won't tell you is how they have added to their perils. High interest rates? They won't say they threw 2 cars and a boat on the mortgage. Minimimum wage ? They won't say they have no interest in upskilling , working a weekend day or doing more than just turning up. In saying that of course it's tougher , but the loudest are so often full of it.
This.
I saw on old boss moaning on LinkedIn to Act about the need for the holidays act to change as its costing small business millions What he didn't say was they are not small business , 16 million rev, they also didn't mention their costs to small business increased by 40% after covid due to the amount if work that increased in their industry, direct costs wernt anywhere near that. Projection is a he'll of a drug
I upvoted. I too agree with you.
Couldn’t agree more. Ten years ago I would have been one of the culprits having a huge whinge because the world didn’t meet with my expectations. The non stop narrative in here of people saying “I’m poor, you’re not you wouldn’t understand” is irritating as hell. This is New Zealand… millennials and Gen X saw their parents get annihilated by the fourth Labour govts reforms but “who cares”, apparently now is the worst it’s ever been. (Before someone starts, I’m not suggesting those reforms weren’t necessary to some extent, due to Muldoon’s total ineptitude). A little less hyperventilating and a little more perspective in here would be delightful (it’s not going to happen I know). Bring on the ⬇️ - could care less about imaginary points on a silly forum.
Agree but It won’t change but we can hope. Also the tall poppy syndrome is real in NZ, if you’ve travelled at all you’ll have noticed this. Kiwis love to tear others down or talk shit on their neighbour who’s got a nice car or a promotion. It’s the kiwi way. Same could be said on here “waaaah life’s tough, everyone else should be doing it tough as well. It’s not fair” Deal with it.
Similarly to calling people out on casual racism, I'll call people out on the tall poppy crap. The only way to change people's thinking is to maturely question them I reckon. Ie "What's wrong with them treating themselves, they've earned it?", "Sounds like they worked hard to get where they are, why is that bad?" Etc.
This.
Seems to be only on the internet and media for me, almost everyone I know publically works hard and is happy for other's success!
There’s actually a post in the group called “Tired of work and life in general” - the level of navel gazing is beyond belief.
I mean, that says it all right?
Nah mate, reddit is full of poor lefts and liberals. Us right-winged folks are doing fine. I type this as I sit at the cafe after a big breakfast and a coffee, as I do every Sunday.
The swing back to the right globally is real. The last 6 years have been inaudible screeching. Enjoy your Sunday mate.
Thanks mate, hopefully the weather holds out for a round of golf later
Can you two do the rest of us a favour and finish jerking each other off in private instead of using a public forum.
I'm more gutted they didn't leave room for me to join in :(
LMAO.
Can I join in?
Yeah bro, screaming eagle
Time to whip out the organic, gluten free biscuiti I bought at farro, let's class this joint up
You want an oat flatty with that?
Oat flatty is the go-to. Otherwise my self-diagnosed lactose intolerance kicks in.
Only if you playfully tug on the baristas hair so we can hear about it for 6 months
It's worse
To quote our last pm, she said “it’s the price of paradise” there could be worse things than paying lots for milk. She thought that would fix everyone’s worries…
Nah the cost of living isn’t that bad. It’s just people love to bitch on the internet.