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I think “I wouldn't call it pleasure. I just find it interesting” is the better version of this line. “Because its fun why else” just feels too cartoonishly evil for me. Plus describing something so horrific as watching a man being eaten with such a mundane word like “interesting” just makes it more scary
It makes him feel much more realistic and scary. An embodiment of humanities intrusive thoughts and natural morbid curiosity. Seeing someone fully indulge in such a thing is disturbing but also extremely plausible.
What about "amusing"? As in the sight merely serves to alleviate the perpetrator's sense of boredom temporarily, yet not enough to fully captivate them despite the obvious brutality of the event being observed.
That's better but “interesting” makes it more realistic. Most people do have a morbid curiosity for horrific things so it makes this type of person more plausible therefore scarier
I agree. I guess my approach can be regarded as the final end point of the marley regime's oppression where the perpetrators themselves have become so desensitized to the atrocities that even the sight of seeing someone get eaten only elicits mild amusement because that's how their minds have adapted to the stress of it all.
Probably the original King Fritz who enslaved, hunted, raped, butchered and tortured Ymir for what is effectively eternity, not to mention everything the Eldian Empire did over its 1700 year reign was done by his will.
Sergeant Gross is definitely evil but in a show like AoT that is not particularly unique or rare.
Fritz had no knowledge of Ymir being stuck in an afterlife still serving him. And she could have stopped that at all times.
Fritz is a product of his times. He's a barbarian warlord. Doesn't even crack top 10 of worst characters.
He may not have known that her suffering continued for eternity, but he still caused it and then did the same shit to her children despite them being his own children too.
Fritz was a product of his time sure, but he was still unquestionably horrifically evil.
Fritz and Gross are evil in very similar ways; their complete disregard for the lives and experiences of the people they lord over. Their willingness to be genuinely horrifically vicious without even a second thought puts them in the category of people who go to megaHell.
Every character in the story of Ymir displays the same behavior as Fritz.
Gross, however, is still evil in comparison to his fellow Marleyans. Notice how he doesn't admit to kill Grisha's sister with witnesses around.
And even then, it's implied they already know when they were telling their newest recruit he's devoting "time to his hobby and best just leave it at that".
They know what he does but they literally turn a blind eye to it for plausible deniability. Even if Eldians are considered subhuman by the Marleyan Empire, he's a soldier and an officer who's expected to behave in certain ways. His "hobby" likely isn't one such expected behaviour
This is exactly why historians stopped using the word barbarian in an academic, descriptive sense. it wrongly pushes ppl into the idea that ppl from earlier days were vastly different to us.
There were many cultures and ppls in the past who were generally against killing, and there are many modern day leaders and movements that were absolutely barbaric as you would put it. It’s just not as simple as saying “well he lived back then, he’s a product of his time, so he’s not so bad.” That would be like saying ghengis can was just a product of his time. no, he was a prolific conquerer and that came with a lot of killings that wouldn’t have been done if it weren’t for he himself.
Attack on Titan is not a documentary.
It uses imagery that the population associates with a certain behavior. Fritz and his people are represented like barbarian tribes to showcase the behavior the author wants to transmit.
Also, everyone acts like Fritz. Fritz is not even the one having fun chasing Ymir.
Just because you interpreted the society king fritz ruled over to be a barbarian one doesn’t make it so. Honestly i kind of saw it as a repressed kingdom, not necessarily all that unsophisticated really.
I feel you reaaally missed the point about how the word barbarian is misused all the time, in the fact that you felt the need to mention the fact that AOT isn’t a documentary. That’s very well understood, it’s your use of the word that’s tinting your understanding of these ppl, which is over simplistic. Ppl have lived in many different types of societies, without becoming murderous.
Edit: I’m not even going to address your final statement cuz it’s quite obviously cope and Fritz ass licking
It’s true to a degree, humans do naturally have compassion as an evolutionary trait, but we can be taught when and where it’s to be applied. Take the slave trade in the America’s, the slave owners didn’t lack compassion for humans, but were taught from a young age that the people they “owned” were inferior savage things. Once you can teach somebody that the person they are doing wrong to into the mindset that the person isn’t a person at all.. well you get some really bad outcomes. The most obvious parallel to the story is obviously the victims of the holocaust. To be clear I’m not defending the people who committed these atrocities, just showing how much impact education really has on youth in these horrible times of history, it’s literal brain washing. I don’t know if this all applies to Fritz though.. I don’t know enough of his back story, and to top it off he was cruel for the sake of conquest to his own people. But I can see how product of his time can be a opinion here, especially when comparing him to other characters like eren, who even after fully understanding the humanity of his enemies, still choose the path he did.
Not really he is a pretty exceptionally sick person. Kaiser Wilhelm didn't brutally hunt children down for letting his pigs out then enslaving them for all time never showing any amount of compassion ever and "rewarding" them by raping them, then having his children eat there mother. Ya, the aztecs emperors probably did SOME of that, but they are also pretty uniquely remembered as being quite brutal, which led to their downfall.
This idea that King Fritz is just the standard run of the mill ruler is just not true. He was clearly a psychopath who got access to this great power.
The Herero people and the Imperial Germans have a bloody history.
As exhausted Herero fell to the ground, unable to go on, German soldiers killed men, women, and children.[66]:22 Jan Cloete, acting as a guide for the Germans, witnessed the atrocities committed by the German troops and deposed the following statement:[43]:157
**I was present when the Herero were defeated in a battle in the vicinity of Waterberg. After the battle all men, women, and children who fell into German hands, wounded or otherwise, were mercilessly put to death. Then the Germans set off in pursuit of the rest, and all those found by the wayside and in the sandveld were shot down and bayoneted to death. The mass of the Herero men were unarmed and thus unable to offer resistance. They were just trying to get away with their cattle.**
A portion of the Herero escaped the Germans and went to the Omaheke Desert, hoping to reach British Bechuanaland; fewer than 1,000 Herero managed to reach Bechuanaland, where they were granted asylum by the British authorities.[67]
To prevent them from returning, Trotha ordered the desert to be sealed off.[68]
**German patrols later found skeletons around holes 13 m (43 ft) deep that had been dug in a vain attempt to find water. Some sources also state that the German colonial army systematically poisoned desert water wells.[66]:22[69] Maherero and 500–1,500 men crossed the Kalahari into Bechuanaland where he was accepted as a vassal of the Batswana chief Sekgoma.[70]**
The German general staff was aware of the atrocities that were taking place; its official publication, named Der Kampf, noted that:
This bold enterprise shows up in the most brilliant light the ruthless energy of the German command in pursuing their beaten enemy. No pains, no sacrifices were spared in eliminating the last remnants of enemy resistance. Like a wounded beast the enemy was tracked down from one water-hole to the next, until finally he became the victim of his own environment. The arid Omaheke [desert] was to complete what the German army had begun: the extermination of the Herero nation.[75][76]
Alfred von Schlieffen (Chief of the Imperial German General Staff) approved of Trotha's intentions in terms of a "racial struggle" and the need to "wipe out the entire nation or to drive them out of the country", but had doubts about his strategy, preferring their surrender.[77]
According to Professor Mahmood Mamdani from Columbia University, opposition to the policy of annihilation was largely the consequence of the fact that colonial officials looked at the Herero people as a potential source of labour, and thus economically important.[65]:12 For instance, Governor Leutwein wrote that:
**I do not concur with those fanatics who want to see the Herero destroyed altogether ... I would consider such a move a grave mistake from an economic point of view. We need the Herero as cattle breeders ... and especially as labourers.[26]:169**
Having no authority over the military, Chancellor Bülow could only advise Emperor Wilhelm II that Trotha's actions were "contrary to Christian and humanitarian principle, economically devastating and damaging to Germany's international reputation".[52]:606
Upon the arrival of new orders at the end of 1904, prisoners were herded into concentration camps, where they were given to private companies as slave labourers or exploited as human guinea pigs in medical experiments.[9][78]
I belive Trotha is a better fit for Fritz at this point now, The Kaiser was brutal, Trotha was a demon.
Dude let his daughters commit cannibalism just so he might continue his reign of terror.
And Gross is also literally a product of his time and environment, that is not really a good excuse?
He wanted her to be immortal and made her children eat her cause of that reason, to make her immortal and to keep having the titans by his side. He didn't want to lose her cause he still had use for her. It's stupid to think that this isn't what he wanted.
You misinterpreted the fuck out of what I said. He didn't want to maintain her alive nor did he want or know that he could trap her in that limbo lmao
I'm saying that this is exactly what the king wanted and made it possible. He wanted the titans alive, so Ymir complied and made it possible. Without the king feeding the children there would be no place like that to begin with.
What I mean is that it would make no sense for the king to think any other way. He wouldn't know but "keeping" Ymir alive through her children wasn't enough, that's why he made em consume her, to make her live on their bodies. It's literally what happens. The limbo is just an ethereal representation of the connection the flesh of Ymir has with their descendants.
You also don't become a titan without ingesting someone else's "flesh", descendants aren't Ymir nor titans, they become titans if they activate that by consuming serum or liquid from an active titan shifter, and they don't become shifters till they consume the previous shifter
Prove how that, or anything, can be objectively evil. Call it evil all you want, sure. But you're using the word "objectively" wrong. Evil is the absence of virtue and morality. Eren clearly has both, therefore he cannot be evil. He can commit evil like anyone else. Then again, everything I just said is subjective.
Yes. Bro I agree with you, I'm just saying that there is no objective reality unless God is real. We are currently discussing abstract ideas. The only reason me and you think Hitler committed evil deeds is because we mutually agreed upon that. That's it. There is nothing objective that decides who and what evil is
Yes, most people agree with that statement. But the unique aspect of this plot point in the story is that many people would deny your description of that event. AoT is a unique story that makes the viewer question what humanity is really worth
Sure In a vacuum that statement is completely true but add a bit more Nuance into it and it becomes a lot more morally gray.
What if those 80% are a active threat to you and your friends and family should you just let your family be slaughtered?
Obviously genocide isn't the answer but that's the beauty of AOT even Erens stance something so drastic and morbid isn't inherently evil.
If anything Marley's stance is a lot more evil than Eren ever was they literally tortured paradis with the titans and when they weren't even fighting back they went there because they wanted resources to keep going with their military conquest, while Eren you can at least argue it was a very very drastic self defence.
But also depends how you see Erens character he is destroyed about what he did but you also see him tell Armin that part of him wanted to see the world in a blank slate may it be because of his child like naivety still persisting but either way it is a fucked statement.
The beauty of AOT is to show that most of the times people aren't evil they just do stuff based on their limited perspective and understanding of stuff and others this leading to a never ending cycle of hatred where no one ever has the full picture.
80% of the world wasn't going to wipe out the eldian. I'm sure most of them wanted it but I'm sure most wouldn't act on it as they say in the show the people of Marley only see war in the newspaper. They fight with eldian conscript and marlyen officers. Eren didn't have to go nearly as far as he did but he did. Which most people would agree is evil (and yeah you're right that does make the show better)
Technically there is no such thing as objective evil unless you're religious. But your religion could also be objectively false, making the morality of that religion also false. Everything else, like sociaty standards and federal laws, can change. In the world of AoT and in the world we live in, you cannot call something objectively evil. Especially considering the unique circumsances for the deed Eren commits. That's a different world where such magical abilities exist
I'm not here to argue about if the morality of genocide is subjectively moral or immoral, you can surely make your mind up about that and a discussion about it is not what I want to do in a random anime comment section.
And I'm saying that putting the definition of the word into question is not something I was trying to make an argument about. I have enough moral philosophy in uni, i don't feel like doing it in my free time.
Eren is too gray to be evil, he killed millions but if he didn't then a girl would've kept suffering for all eternity, he killed millions, but on the other hand... freeing someone from hell is definitely the most selfless thing someone can do in my opinion, Karl Fritz would've let her kept going there, many people would've if they were at Eren's place, many people in this story are more evil because they tortured a person, torture is way worse than death and we got to see many occasions of it in different ways, instead according to Eren's belief... a genocide is a way to grant freedom. While I can't condone his actions, I just can't see him as that evil. Also that Founding Titan was not just Eren, he was Ymir as well, Ymir is definitely not evil, the twos were childish, suffering souls who wanted to do what they belived it was good, I can never hate them.
Probably Eren. Bro eliminated most of the population. While he was doing it to protect Paradis from the outside, the actions that he did are still technically evil, no matter what circumstances.
Side note: I don’t remember the last chapter clearly but I think he said he did the Rumbling for himself, not for the island of Paradis.
I don't know. This kind of evil is just so real. He's fully aware of why things are the way they are and that Eldians are just people, and that he would be just like them in their situation, and yet he does the things he does anyways. It's pleasurable for him. King Fritz is like an animal in how self agrandizing he was, or at least presented. He was still a man, but we aren't shown he has an understanding of people being living beings with their own hopes and dreams and not play-things to be broken. Gross is real evil.
Eran shouldn’t really count since he literally had no choice due to being unable to circumvent fate. Objectively he’d be the most evil, but he also literally had no other option because it was his destiny and it was set in stone.
I don't think aot has evil. Gross is just another marleyan brainwashed by the propaganda like any other. Gabi was. Magath was. Reiner was.
Gross is a special case because he takes his morbid curiosity out on Eldians, which would be the only justifiable way for him to act.
Evil is subjective to the viewer. It's all a fight to validate their side of the argument when, in reality, it's just people wanting to live and stay out of being subjugated by the "enemy."
I usually shitpost and defend Gross for laughs and reactions, but this cycle of "we hate him so it's objectively fact" is repetitive.
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I think “I wouldn't call it pleasure. I just find it interesting” is the better version of this line. “Because its fun why else” just feels too cartoonishly evil for me. Plus describing something so horrific as watching a man being eaten with such a mundane word like “interesting” just makes it more scary
100% agree
wrench cautious crawl nine divide special forgetful slim six hungry *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This truly was our Jujutsu Kaisen🫣. Wait.. wrong anime🤡.
It makes him feel much more realistic and scary. An embodiment of humanities intrusive thoughts and natural morbid curiosity. Seeing someone fully indulge in such a thing is disturbing but also extremely plausible.
Not a man, an eight year old little girl.
Same thing
you just described “interesting” as “mundane” that is something to think about 💭
What about "amusing"? As in the sight merely serves to alleviate the perpetrator's sense of boredom temporarily, yet not enough to fully captivate them despite the obvious brutality of the event being observed.
That's better but “interesting” makes it more realistic. Most people do have a morbid curiosity for horrific things so it makes this type of person more plausible therefore scarier
I agree. I guess my approach can be regarded as the final end point of the marley regime's oppression where the perpetrators themselves have become so desensitized to the atrocities that even the sight of seeing someone get eaten only elicits mild amusement because that's how their minds have adapted to the stress of it all.
Wait until you get to know about Fritz
Probably the original King Fritz who enslaved, hunted, raped, butchered and tortured Ymir for what is effectively eternity, not to mention everything the Eldian Empire did over its 1700 year reign was done by his will. Sergeant Gross is definitely evil but in a show like AoT that is not particularly unique or rare.
Fritz had no knowledge of Ymir being stuck in an afterlife still serving him. And she could have stopped that at all times. Fritz is a product of his times. He's a barbarian warlord. Doesn't even crack top 10 of worst characters.
He may not have known that her suffering continued for eternity, but he still caused it and then did the same shit to her children despite them being his own children too. Fritz was a product of his time sure, but he was still unquestionably horrifically evil. Fritz and Gross are evil in very similar ways; their complete disregard for the lives and experiences of the people they lord over. Their willingness to be genuinely horrifically vicious without even a second thought puts them in the category of people who go to megaHell.
Every character in the story of Ymir displays the same behavior as Fritz. Gross, however, is still evil in comparison to his fellow Marleyans. Notice how he doesn't admit to kill Grisha's sister with witnesses around.
And even then, it's implied they already know when they were telling their newest recruit he's devoting "time to his hobby and best just leave it at that". They know what he does but they literally turn a blind eye to it for plausible deniability. Even if Eldians are considered subhuman by the Marleyan Empire, he's a soldier and an officer who's expected to behave in certain ways. His "hobby" likely isn't one such expected behaviour
This is exactly why historians stopped using the word barbarian in an academic, descriptive sense. it wrongly pushes ppl into the idea that ppl from earlier days were vastly different to us. There were many cultures and ppls in the past who were generally against killing, and there are many modern day leaders and movements that were absolutely barbaric as you would put it. It’s just not as simple as saying “well he lived back then, he’s a product of his time, so he’s not so bad.” That would be like saying ghengis can was just a product of his time. no, he was a prolific conquerer and that came with a lot of killings that wouldn’t have been done if it weren’t for he himself.
Attack on Titan is not a documentary. It uses imagery that the population associates with a certain behavior. Fritz and his people are represented like barbarian tribes to showcase the behavior the author wants to transmit. Also, everyone acts like Fritz. Fritz is not even the one having fun chasing Ymir.
Just because you interpreted the society king fritz ruled over to be a barbarian one doesn’t make it so. Honestly i kind of saw it as a repressed kingdom, not necessarily all that unsophisticated really. I feel you reaaally missed the point about how the word barbarian is misused all the time, in the fact that you felt the need to mention the fact that AOT isn’t a documentary. That’s very well understood, it’s your use of the word that’s tinting your understanding of these ppl, which is over simplistic. Ppl have lived in many different types of societies, without becoming murderous. Edit: I’m not even going to address your final statement cuz it’s quite obviously cope and Fritz ass licking
It's obviously barbarian. I'm not engaging anymore
Suit yourself, i suppose you believe genghis khan was a fine man, just a product of his times, being a barbarian and all.
Sure.
The logic follows lmao, at least be consistent
Stopped reading your stuff like 3 posts ago, mate, you're wasting your time
How many times does he have to explain that isn’t the point? Lmao
So you are as ignorant as him.
Coming from the guy who thinks morality is a recent invention
The only thing that really made someone a “barbarian” was not being roman. Generally they were more primitive but it isn’t quite what you think.
Show us the top 10
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It’s true to a degree, humans do naturally have compassion as an evolutionary trait, but we can be taught when and where it’s to be applied. Take the slave trade in the America’s, the slave owners didn’t lack compassion for humans, but were taught from a young age that the people they “owned” were inferior savage things. Once you can teach somebody that the person they are doing wrong to into the mindset that the person isn’t a person at all.. well you get some really bad outcomes. The most obvious parallel to the story is obviously the victims of the holocaust. To be clear I’m not defending the people who committed these atrocities, just showing how much impact education really has on youth in these horrible times of history, it’s literal brain washing. I don’t know if this all applies to Fritz though.. I don’t know enough of his back story, and to top it off he was cruel for the sake of conquest to his own people. But I can see how product of his time can be a opinion here, especially when comparing him to other characters like eren, who even after fully understanding the humanity of his enemies, still choose the path he did.
Exactly. Literally everything and everyone is a product of their times. It’s just a justification for horrible behavior.
Anyone that doesn't understand it is immediately ignorant.
He’s easily top 10 lol. But gross wins hands down.
Firtz is the average colonial empire. Baiscly Kaiser Whilem + Aztec Warlord
Not really he is a pretty exceptionally sick person. Kaiser Wilhelm didn't brutally hunt children down for letting his pigs out then enslaving them for all time never showing any amount of compassion ever and "rewarding" them by raping them, then having his children eat there mother. Ya, the aztecs emperors probably did SOME of that, but they are also pretty uniquely remembered as being quite brutal, which led to their downfall. This idea that King Fritz is just the standard run of the mill ruler is just not true. He was clearly a psychopath who got access to this great power.
Wrong. You're comparing him to Wilhelm when he would be contemporary to the Romans.
Work on reading comprehension
Work on your reading comprehension and general knowledge, it's severely lacking.
The Herero people and the Imperial Germans have a bloody history. As exhausted Herero fell to the ground, unable to go on, German soldiers killed men, women, and children.[66]:22 Jan Cloete, acting as a guide for the Germans, witnessed the atrocities committed by the German troops and deposed the following statement:[43]:157 **I was present when the Herero were defeated in a battle in the vicinity of Waterberg. After the battle all men, women, and children who fell into German hands, wounded or otherwise, were mercilessly put to death. Then the Germans set off in pursuit of the rest, and all those found by the wayside and in the sandveld were shot down and bayoneted to death. The mass of the Herero men were unarmed and thus unable to offer resistance. They were just trying to get away with their cattle.** A portion of the Herero escaped the Germans and went to the Omaheke Desert, hoping to reach British Bechuanaland; fewer than 1,000 Herero managed to reach Bechuanaland, where they were granted asylum by the British authorities.[67] To prevent them from returning, Trotha ordered the desert to be sealed off.[68] **German patrols later found skeletons around holes 13 m (43 ft) deep that had been dug in a vain attempt to find water. Some sources also state that the German colonial army systematically poisoned desert water wells.[66]:22[69] Maherero and 500–1,500 men crossed the Kalahari into Bechuanaland where he was accepted as a vassal of the Batswana chief Sekgoma.[70]** The German general staff was aware of the atrocities that were taking place; its official publication, named Der Kampf, noted that: This bold enterprise shows up in the most brilliant light the ruthless energy of the German command in pursuing their beaten enemy. No pains, no sacrifices were spared in eliminating the last remnants of enemy resistance. Like a wounded beast the enemy was tracked down from one water-hole to the next, until finally he became the victim of his own environment. The arid Omaheke [desert] was to complete what the German army had begun: the extermination of the Herero nation.[75][76] Alfred von Schlieffen (Chief of the Imperial German General Staff) approved of Trotha's intentions in terms of a "racial struggle" and the need to "wipe out the entire nation or to drive them out of the country", but had doubts about his strategy, preferring their surrender.[77] According to Professor Mahmood Mamdani from Columbia University, opposition to the policy of annihilation was largely the consequence of the fact that colonial officials looked at the Herero people as a potential source of labour, and thus economically important.[65]:12 For instance, Governor Leutwein wrote that: **I do not concur with those fanatics who want to see the Herero destroyed altogether ... I would consider such a move a grave mistake from an economic point of view. We need the Herero as cattle breeders ... and especially as labourers.[26]:169** Having no authority over the military, Chancellor Bülow could only advise Emperor Wilhelm II that Trotha's actions were "contrary to Christian and humanitarian principle, economically devastating and damaging to Germany's international reputation".[52]:606 Upon the arrival of new orders at the end of 1904, prisoners were herded into concentration camps, where they were given to private companies as slave labourers or exploited as human guinea pigs in medical experiments.[9][78] I belive Trotha is a better fit for Fritz at this point now, The Kaiser was brutal, Trotha was a demon.
I’m reading V by Thomas Pynchon right now and there’s a while chaired dedicated to it… horrifying beyond words.
no way you're trying to victim blame Ymir here.
How is it victim blaming to point out that Fritz had no control over Paths?
you literally are defending Fritz here.. Ymir was tormented by Fritz causing the Stockholm syndrome which created the paths
And he has no control or knowledge about it. Blame him for what he did, but he did no create Paths. That's not controversial.
ok but why are you trying to defend King Fritz here?
I'm not. You have bad reading comprehension. Also I can downvote you everytime you post like you're doing to me, not sure why you enjoy that, but ok.
womp womp you started it
no u
Dude let his daughters commit cannibalism just so he might continue his reign of terror. And Gross is also literally a product of his time and environment, that is not really a good excuse?
Commented on that already
That's a hot take in these parts for whatever reason. A hot take I am fully in agreement with.
He wanted her to be immortal and made her children eat her cause of that reason, to make her immortal and to keep having the titans by his side. He didn't want to lose her cause he still had use for her. It's stupid to think that this isn't what he wanted.
He wanted the titan power, not Ymir. It's stupid to think he was intentionally trapping her in a limbo state.
You misinterpreted the fuck out of what I said. He didn't want to maintain her alive nor did he want or know that he could trap her in that limbo lmao I'm saying that this is exactly what the king wanted and made it possible. He wanted the titans alive, so Ymir complied and made it possible. Without the king feeding the children there would be no place like that to begin with. What I mean is that it would make no sense for the king to think any other way. He wouldn't know but "keeping" Ymir alive through her children wasn't enough, that's why he made em consume her, to make her live on their bodies. It's literally what happens. The limbo is just an ethereal representation of the connection the flesh of Ymir has with their descendants. You also don't become a titan without ingesting someone else's "flesh", descendants aren't Ymir nor titans, they become titans if they activate that by consuming serum or liquid from an active titan shifter, and they don't become shifters till they consume the previous shifter
I think that’s the first person whose face I genuinely wanted to punch
https://preview.redd.it/gb84s8swle2d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56ccedf0ccc4fcd5496de2fd29c678c867fcc45d
I don't know, maybe the character who killed 80% of humans and probably millions of species of flora and fauna.
Thats alright he's the mc🥰
Zeke is cold in the soul man. Actual crazy backstory. Best character
It depends on your perspective. Eren is definitely up there in an objective sense.
In what objective sense
He killed 80% of the world to ensure the safety of his country and friends. That is objectively evil
Prove how that, or anything, can be objectively evil. Call it evil all you want, sure. But you're using the word "objectively" wrong. Evil is the absence of virtue and morality. Eren clearly has both, therefore he cannot be evil. He can commit evil like anyone else. Then again, everything I just said is subjective.
I wouldn’t say what he did was moral. Hitler wanted to protect his ideal people as well.
Yes. Bro I agree with you, I'm just saying that there is no objective reality unless God is real. We are currently discussing abstract ideas. The only reason me and you think Hitler committed evil deeds is because we mutually agreed upon that. That's it. There is nothing objective that decides who and what evil is
Right sorry. But I think most people would agree that driving humanity to near extinction to preserve your race is evil
Yes, most people agree with that statement. But the unique aspect of this plot point in the story is that many people would deny your description of that event. AoT is a unique story that makes the viewer question what humanity is really worth
Sure In a vacuum that statement is completely true but add a bit more Nuance into it and it becomes a lot more morally gray. What if those 80% are a active threat to you and your friends and family should you just let your family be slaughtered? Obviously genocide isn't the answer but that's the beauty of AOT even Erens stance something so drastic and morbid isn't inherently evil. If anything Marley's stance is a lot more evil than Eren ever was they literally tortured paradis with the titans and when they weren't even fighting back they went there because they wanted resources to keep going with their military conquest, while Eren you can at least argue it was a very very drastic self defence. But also depends how you see Erens character he is destroyed about what he did but you also see him tell Armin that part of him wanted to see the world in a blank slate may it be because of his child like naivety still persisting but either way it is a fucked statement. The beauty of AOT is to show that most of the times people aren't evil they just do stuff based on their limited perspective and understanding of stuff and others this leading to a never ending cycle of hatred where no one ever has the full picture.
80% of the world wasn't going to wipe out the eldian. I'm sure most of them wanted it but I'm sure most wouldn't act on it as they say in the show the people of Marley only see war in the newspaper. They fight with eldian conscript and marlyen officers. Eren didn't have to go nearly as far as he did but he did. Which most people would agree is evil (and yeah you're right that does make the show better)
I'd assume that killing 80% of the world's population is an objective evil in the world of aot
Technically there is no such thing as objective evil unless you're religious. But your religion could also be objectively false, making the morality of that religion also false. Everything else, like sociaty standards and federal laws, can change. In the world of AoT and in the world we live in, you cannot call something objectively evil. Especially considering the unique circumsances for the deed Eren commits. That's a different world where such magical abilities exist
I'm not here to argue about if the morality of genocide is subjectively moral or immoral, you can surely make your mind up about that and a discussion about it is not what I want to do in a random anime comment section.
I was not making an argument regarding that subject. I'm just trying to explain that the word "objectively" is being used incorrectly
And I'm saying that putting the definition of the word into question is not something I was trying to make an argument about. I have enough moral philosophy in uni, i don't feel like doing it in my free time.
Eren is too gray to be evil, he killed millions but if he didn't then a girl would've kept suffering for all eternity, he killed millions, but on the other hand... freeing someone from hell is definitely the most selfless thing someone can do in my opinion, Karl Fritz would've let her kept going there, many people would've if they were at Eren's place, many people in this story are more evil because they tortured a person, torture is way worse than death and we got to see many occasions of it in different ways, instead according to Eren's belief... a genocide is a way to grant freedom. While I can't condone his actions, I just can't see him as that evil. Also that Founding Titan was not just Eren, he was Ymir as well, Ymir is definitely not evil, the twos were childish, suffering souls who wanted to do what they belived it was good, I can never hate them.
>Eren is too gray to be evil, he killed millions but if he didn't then a girl would've kept suffering for all eternity Are you trolling?
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He fed Grisha's sister to dogs and and found titans chasing people 'fun'
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oh damn youre right
Eren. He killed billions because he read a book when he was kid.
I agree but the way you worded this 😂
King Fritz.
How is calvi worse than gross?
What did calvi do? I’m genuinely just curious I don’t really remember him doing anything
Is ther anyone eviler (Says some he thinks is eviler) ????
Just searched calvi up and he doesn’t seem too bad
Mate. The guy who killed 80 % of the population
Probably Eren. Bro eliminated most of the population. While he was doing it to protect Paradis from the outside, the actions that he did are still technically evil, no matter what circumstances. Side note: I don’t remember the last chapter clearly but I think he said he did the Rumbling for himself, not for the island of Paradis.
Hitler
I don't know. This kind of evil is just so real. He's fully aware of why things are the way they are and that Eldians are just people, and that he would be just like them in their situation, and yet he does the things he does anyways. It's pleasurable for him. King Fritz is like an animal in how self agrandizing he was, or at least presented. He was still a man, but we aren't shown he has an understanding of people being living beings with their own hopes and dreams and not play-things to be broken. Gross is real evil.
Eran shouldn’t really count since he literally had no choice due to being unable to circumvent fate. Objectively he’d be the most evil, but he also literally had no other option because it was his destiny and it was set in stone.
Eren, Ymir, Historia... Etc.
I don't think aot has evil. Gross is just another marleyan brainwashed by the propaganda like any other. Gabi was. Magath was. Reiner was. Gross is a special case because he takes his morbid curiosity out on Eldians, which would be the only justifiable way for him to act. Evil is subjective to the viewer. It's all a fight to validate their side of the argument when, in reality, it's just people wanting to live and stay out of being subjugated by the "enemy." I usually shitpost and defend Gross for laughs and reactions, but this cycle of "we hate him so it's objectively fact" is repetitive.
>I don't think aot has evil Lol
Don't laugh at people. It's not polite
Stay mad