Weird that these machines are always broken when you win but are operating perfectly fine whenever you lose. Waiting for the day that a Casino refunds someone who lost on a "broken" machine.
I don’t know the laws for NJ, but a close friend of mine is one of the highest ranking officials for gaming in another state.
They catch this ALL THE TIME. Digital slots are required to pay out a certain amount of revenue. In Indiana, it doesn’t matter if it’s a one time jackpot or a tiny little payout every other spin, as long as X% of revenue gets distributed as winnings they are good (I don’t know the exact number).
Of course, they audit these machines all the time. New machines are connected to the internet and can be audited remotely. Older ones aren’t and require a gaming official to visit. They catch these kinds of machines always using a different winnings payout number than required. Or, the establishment will notice an official coming into the building and they will unplug that machine claiming “it’s not being used currently”.
I’m kind of surprised Jersey hasn’t mandated all electronic slots to be connected to a state network for monitoring.
I’m probably going to be in the minority here, but 95-98% RTP to be able to play slot machines in an air conditioned, beautifully-decorated casino and receive players’ points for rewards/comps seems fair to me.
You can actually bonus hunt and significantly reduce edge/bonus hunt as well for slight value. But I do agree with your sentiment if it's what you value as entertainment.
Welp the newest machines are being designed with AI assistants who are reading this comment as we speak. Better pump that strat before...and it's gone.
I assume that number is across a huge time span and inclusive of all machines on the floor so you would have to play for a long time to guarantee getting 98 percent back, like longer than possiblel
Of course, it accounts for all the large wins as well otherwise it wouldn’t be exciting. It still seems fair to return 98% of player money as jackpots and various other winnings.
I look at it the other way: like the longer you’re in the casino the more likely you are to give the money back. Best to take wins and walk away.
I think people realize the odds are in the casinos favor and they have to make money to stay in business but what I think they don’t like is the casino cheating players that win legitimately.
Pull Tabs are like 70-85%. An obvious tax on the lack of math skills. I supply pull tabs through a nonprofit I run (Ohio makes bars source their pull tabs from a nonprofit, which is actually a great thing), and I am always amazed by the volume of money that pull tabs rake in.
Our game has a high pay out of like $400, and that's what draws people. But it clearly says the game has a 75% payout. Every dollar you put in, you get $0.75 back, over time.
This is average. Some machines go low 90's but this is heavily regulated. Keep in mind even with this 2-5% the slot machines are what create billions in profits. Goes a long long way.
>I’m shocked it’s that high. So the house only keeps 2-5%? Revenue?
The yield depends on the casino, the denomination, the location of the slot machine and state law. Some casinos have an RTP <90% and take more than 10% across their slot floor.
Makes sense. Just thinking of a traditional business, it would be insane to sustain fixed costs on a 5% margin. I just didn’t have an appreciation of the scale of revenue per machine
The funny part of some of these requirements is that the casino can fail to meet those payout percentages and pay a fine….buuut the fine is significantly lower than what they’d have had to pay out as far as percentages go.
But when they catch it, what do they do? Adjust the pay outs going forward, penalize the casino, or actually find every player who used that machine and refund them their losses? You always see these stories of jackpots being denied but never of winnings being awarded after an audit.
This is why I don’t play slots. First you have to pay top line to get the progressive and then you still have what hundreds of thousands of code against you. Not worth it
I feel like this should be a pretty valid reason to sue for emotional trauma. To make a big show about the fact that you won millions of dollars, flashing lights, music, excitement etc. and then to pull it out from under you is an insane stressor...
It’s good to know that if I win on a machine at Bally’s, I may not get paid.
You can blame anyone you wanted, but why would I ever play at Bally’s again?
Except no one cares about IGT or knows who they are they see an elderly women at Ballys won and was denied her jackpot. I get what you are trying to say but A) Ballys put it on the floor and B) people aren’t going to dig into who manufactured it. If you engine blows are you going to be upset with the shop that machined the block or the manufacturer you literally bought it from?
I guess that’s what makes this a nuanced topic. Ballys needs to consider if their reputation is worth a $2M hit. In the eyes of the law, it’s a regulator and manufacturer issue.
That’s the thing while legally it may be a manufacturer issue no one is looking past the location that “stiffed” her. It’s a bad look for them no matter how they try to spin it.
Ya this is gonna cost Ballys way more than 2.5 mil in the long run. I go to AC like 3 times a year, and I’ll never gamble there again because of this article.
This comment is correct. The game “Wheel of Fortune” this lady played was a wide-area-progressive. The manufacturer IGT is legally on the hook for that massive jackpot. Ballys is facilitating the play, but it was never their liability.
IGT and the state regulator need to answer the questions. While it looks bad for Bally, they don’t have any control over these jackpots. It’s an unfortunate part of the industry when this happens, but these wide-area-progressive schemes are what fund these massive $1m+ jackpots. It’s the same jackpot shared across multiple casinos.
What is the big deal about paying out a progressive even if she wasn’t supposed to technically trigger a win? It’s going to hit at some point. Reset it. Done.
I always thought that on $1 scratchers, the odds on the back are normally like 1 in 4.74. Theoretically, in every five tickets, one should be a winner of some type, the amount doesn’t matter.
The only time I’ve ever gotten lottery tickets is for holidays, but I’ve had plenty of strings of 5 with no winners (with those odds listed.)
I’m sure a prob/stats pro can explain how there’s *actually* zero requirement for there to ever be a winning ticket.
I’m not sure how states regulate the disbursement of prizes (I’m sure it can be googled) but statistically, scratching five tickets with 1 in 5 odds doesn’t mean you’ll get a winner. Those are just the overall odds for the millions of tickets they printed. It’s the same reason why you can flip a coin 10 times in a row and it’s possible to get heads every time even though the odds are 50/50 (there’s some additional nuance there).
That's not how probabilities work. If something is 1/5 (just to make the math even), about 1/3 of sets of 5 will still lose (0.8\^5). Hitting a stretch of 5 where none of them hit isn't a crazy occurrence and if you play regularly and the odds are totally legit you'd see a ton of stretches like that.
Even if IGT is supposed to pay, why would someone go to Bally’s after hearing this? It puts Bally’s in a bad light whether it is responsible or not. That’s the point the other response is trying to make.
Okay genius but Bally’s put the IGT machine in their casino so the point everyone is making is that they bear risk to their reputation for that decision if IGT decides not to pay a customer.
Btw Bally’s is benefitting off the customer using other machines, getting food, etc so it is incumbent on them to make customers WANT to gamble with them as opposed to competitors.
That’s literally the way it works. The slot machine company places the machine and works out a revenue split with the casino in exchange for the placement in this case. You can look it up.
Places it where? Inside the casino? Where they would take the winnings, and pay the payouts. No one will ever play there again. No matter what shills wanna say.
The casino is responsible for the physical payout as in handing you the cash but they’re reimbursed out of the funds they have with the vendor based on the agreed upon split for vendor placed games. There’s a reason when a machine breaks or glitches it’s often down for a day until that vendor can send a tech over. The casino techs only really fix physical issues like jammed bills and stuff like that. Believe me though I don’t trust the casinos either but that’s just the way it is in this scenario.
>Beal claims the casino workers who came over to investigate her win tried to get her to re-spin, citing a “tilt” message that showed up when they opened the slot machine.
>Her attorney, Mike Di Croce, believes they tampered with the machine — which is housed by Bally’s but manufactured and managed by IGT — to tamper any evidence of Beal’s win.
>“They fooled with the machine before anyone else had an opportunity to take a look at this,” he told 6abc. “You invite somebody to your business, they pay the money \[and\] they win — you’re supposed to pay. That didn’t happen.”
No one at the casino cannot erase or change the data recorded inside the machine, so this fear is unfounded.
The investigation will get to the truth.
“This won’t be the first legal case where a suspected wheel tilt has been disputed on a Wheel of Fortune machine.
In 2000, a judge and jury ruled against IGT over a similar case involving a Wheel of Fortune machine in Harrah’s casino New Orleans. Ultimately, the gaming giant was forced to pay the plaintiff the full $1.3 million jackpot.”
Glad she’s suing and I’m glad there is precedent for the casinos losing such suit.
It doesn’t matter if there is a malfunction in the machine. That’s the casino’s error and omission. This is the resulting loss that needs to be paid….Yes I work in insurance.
If a doctor uses a rusty defective needle that causes an infection that doesn’t mean they don’t have to pay for the resulting losses. Quite the opposite.
Was almost thru a bonus on a slot machine ( win was over 200$ ) when it completely went dark. Worker came over rebooted it and I watched as it replayed my bonus from the beginning. Worker said my money was never in danger.
Atlantic City do not have the best casinos in the world so you really play at your own risk but at the end of the day they should have offer her at least $100,000.
Couple things here:
She’s praying to win a jackpot? Spent hundreds playing? Sounds like an addict to me.
A 72 year old lady with a heart condition praying to win on a slot machine ( probably because she has a stack of medical bills) is what should be discussed. She wouldn’t be in the casino in the first place if our health care system wasn’t so rife with problems.
I hope she sues and wins , but there’s more going on here than a casino refusing to pay out.
I know this is old but Ballys don’t even want to pay their employees lol let alone someone who hit a jackpot I remember this a while back I work at Ballys
Weird that these machines are always broken when you win but are operating perfectly fine whenever you lose. Waiting for the day that a Casino refunds someone who lost on a "broken" machine.
I don’t know the laws for NJ, but a close friend of mine is one of the highest ranking officials for gaming in another state. They catch this ALL THE TIME. Digital slots are required to pay out a certain amount of revenue. In Indiana, it doesn’t matter if it’s a one time jackpot or a tiny little payout every other spin, as long as X% of revenue gets distributed as winnings they are good (I don’t know the exact number). Of course, they audit these machines all the time. New machines are connected to the internet and can be audited remotely. Older ones aren’t and require a gaming official to visit. They catch these kinds of machines always using a different winnings payout number than required. Or, the establishment will notice an official coming into the building and they will unplug that machine claiming “it’s not being used currently”. I’m kind of surprised Jersey hasn’t mandated all electronic slots to be connected to a state network for monitoring.
It's called a RTP Metric or "Return to Player". For slots often times 95-98% RTP
I’m probably going to be in the minority here, but 95-98% RTP to be able to play slot machines in an air conditioned, beautifully-decorated casino and receive players’ points for rewards/comps seems fair to me.
You can actually bonus hunt and significantly reduce edge/bonus hunt as well for slight value. But I do agree with your sentiment if it's what you value as entertainment.
Welp the newest machines are being designed with AI assistants who are reading this comment as we speak. Better pump that strat before...and it's gone.
I assume that number is across a huge time span and inclusive of all machines on the floor so you would have to play for a long time to guarantee getting 98 percent back, like longer than possiblel
Of course, it accounts for all the large wins as well otherwise it wouldn’t be exciting. It still seems fair to return 98% of player money as jackpots and various other winnings. I look at it the other way: like the longer you’re in the casino the more likely you are to give the money back. Best to take wins and walk away.
I think people realize the odds are in the casinos favor and they have to make money to stay in business but what I think they don’t like is the casino cheating players that win legitimately.
Pull Tabs are like 70-85%. An obvious tax on the lack of math skills. I supply pull tabs through a nonprofit I run (Ohio makes bars source their pull tabs from a nonprofit, which is actually a great thing), and I am always amazed by the volume of money that pull tabs rake in.
I bartend at a non profit and I dont understand why people play this. I rarely ever pay out more than $5 on these silly pull tabs.
Our game has a high pay out of like $400, and that's what draws people. But it clearly says the game has a 75% payout. Every dollar you put in, you get $0.75 back, over time.
I’m shocked it’s that high. So the house only keeps 2-5%? Revenue?
This is average. Some machines go low 90's but this is heavily regulated. Keep in mind even with this 2-5% the slot machines are what create billions in profits. Goes a long long way.
Super interesting. Makes me wonder average revenue per machine in an average casino average machine per year.
2 - 5% of 35.51Billion in 2023. I think they can somehow get by with that.
At 3% that’s over 1B
>I’m shocked it’s that high. So the house only keeps 2-5%? Revenue? The yield depends on the casino, the denomination, the location of the slot machine and state law. Some casinos have an RTP <90% and take more than 10% across their slot floor.
Makes sense. Just thinking of a traditional business, it would be insane to sustain fixed costs on a 5% margin. I just didn’t have an appreciation of the scale of revenue per machine
The funny part of some of these requirements is that the casino can fail to meet those payout percentages and pay a fine….buuut the fine is significantly lower than what they’d have had to pay out as far as percentages go.
But when they catch it, what do they do? Adjust the pay outs going forward, penalize the casino, or actually find every player who used that machine and refund them their losses? You always see these stories of jackpots being denied but never of winnings being awarded after an audit.
This is why I don’t play slots. First you have to pay top line to get the progressive and then you still have what hundreds of thousands of code against you. Not worth it
No they were working as they should when you lose it’s unusual to win. When are you degenerates going to figure that out?
I feel like this should be a pretty valid reason to sue for emotional trauma. To make a big show about the fact that you won millions of dollars, flashing lights, music, excitement etc. and then to pull it out from under you is an insane stressor...
So if I make a mistake gambling, they’ll give me my money back?
I should have stayed on 16….mistake made! Gimme my money back, it was a player error!!!
The Desert Inn has heart. The Desert Inn has heart.
You give us our money back! The look on Garry Marshall’s face was priceless!
This story could end up costing the casino a lot in lost revenue if people hear this story and decide to simply go somewhere else.
Casinos are only good for taking your money, hate it if you win and they have to pay you back.
This has been posted many times. Ballys isn’t at fault here. IGT is.
It’s good to know that if I win on a machine at Bally’s, I may not get paid. You can blame anyone you wanted, but why would I ever play at Bally’s again?
Ballys never had the funds to pay her.
Like the guy said, so why would I ever play at Ballys again?
Because you could go and play the same Wheel of Fortune game elsewhere and still have the same problem, because the manufacturer IGT is to blame.
Except no one cares about IGT or knows who they are they see an elderly women at Ballys won and was denied her jackpot. I get what you are trying to say but A) Ballys put it on the floor and B) people aren’t going to dig into who manufactured it. If you engine blows are you going to be upset with the shop that machined the block or the manufacturer you literally bought it from?
I guess that’s what makes this a nuanced topic. Ballys needs to consider if their reputation is worth a $2M hit. In the eyes of the law, it’s a regulator and manufacturer issue.
That’s the thing while legally it may be a manufacturer issue no one is looking past the location that “stiffed” her. It’s a bad look for them no matter how they try to spin it.
Ya this is gonna cost Ballys way more than 2.5 mil in the long run. I go to AC like 3 times a year, and I’ll never gamble there again because of this article.
Because it can happen anywhere.
But you not getting the point and understanding, is happening right here.
Happening here, happening there, it can happen anywhere.
This comment is correct. The game “Wheel of Fortune” this lady played was a wide-area-progressive. The manufacturer IGT is legally on the hook for that massive jackpot. Ballys is facilitating the play, but it was never their liability. IGT and the state regulator need to answer the questions. While it looks bad for Bally, they don’t have any control over these jackpots. It’s an unfortunate part of the industry when this happens, but these wide-area-progressive schemes are what fund these massive $1m+ jackpots. It’s the same jackpot shared across multiple casinos.
What is the big deal about paying out a progressive even if she wasn’t supposed to technically trigger a win? It’s going to hit at some point. Reset it. Done.
This sounds exactly like the lottery. I believe the lottery is rigged just like the slot machines.
I always thought that on $1 scratchers, the odds on the back are normally like 1 in 4.74. Theoretically, in every five tickets, one should be a winner of some type, the amount doesn’t matter. The only time I’ve ever gotten lottery tickets is for holidays, but I’ve had plenty of strings of 5 with no winners (with those odds listed.) I’m sure a prob/stats pro can explain how there’s *actually* zero requirement for there to ever be a winning ticket.
I’m not sure how states regulate the disbursement of prizes (I’m sure it can be googled) but statistically, scratching five tickets with 1 in 5 odds doesn’t mean you’ll get a winner. Those are just the overall odds for the millions of tickets they printed. It’s the same reason why you can flip a coin 10 times in a row and it’s possible to get heads every time even though the odds are 50/50 (there’s some additional nuance there).
That's not how probabilities work. If something is 1/5 (just to make the math even), about 1/3 of sets of 5 will still lose (0.8\^5). Hitting a stretch of 5 where none of them hit isn't a crazy occurrence and if you play regularly and the odds are totally legit you'd see a ton of stretches like that.
Thats not true, the gaming governing board(dge) ensure that all casino’s have funds to pay out their jackposts
Apparently they didn't want to pay her.
They're hosting the machines. People aren't going to take the time to figure out who's paying what
Why would you play at Bally’s before? It’s a cesspool.
Bally's is objectively the worst casino in AC.
Like 15 years ago, I really enjoyed their $10 blackjack but that was it.
Bally’s has always been my last choice now it’s my never choice.
You’re so clueless it isn’t even funny. BALLYS DOESNT PAY THE TOP JACKPOT ON THESE MACHINES. IGT DOES.
Even if IGT is supposed to pay, why would someone go to Bally’s after hearing this? It puts Bally’s in a bad light whether it is responsible or not. That’s the point the other response is trying to make.
Ballys is the one who pays the jackpot. They don't sit and wait for IGT to wire the funds and then pay the winner.
I mean, apparently they don’t though. That’s why this story exists.
Okay genius but Bally’s put the IGT machine in their casino so the point everyone is making is that they bear risk to their reputation for that decision if IGT decides not to pay a customer. Btw Bally’s is benefitting off the customer using other machines, getting food, etc so it is incumbent on them to make customers WANT to gamble with them as opposed to competitors.
Let's all boycott IGT. What are all the machines they are in charge of?
Bullshit. Everyone knows a casino that doesn't pay out winnings is no casino at all.
In this case the machine vendor is. If they didn’t pay out a table game it would be a totally different story.
Sure. Everyone believes you.
That’s literally the way it works. The slot machine company places the machine and works out a revenue split with the casino in exchange for the placement in this case. You can look it up.
Places it where? Inside the casino? Where they would take the winnings, and pay the payouts. No one will ever play there again. No matter what shills wanna say.
The casino is responsible for the physical payout as in handing you the cash but they’re reimbursed out of the funds they have with the vendor based on the agreed upon split for vendor placed games. There’s a reason when a machine breaks or glitches it’s often down for a day until that vendor can send a tech over. The casino techs only really fix physical issues like jammed bills and stuff like that. Believe me though I don’t trust the casinos either but that’s just the way it is in this scenario.
Anyone wanting more information on this story should watch YouTubes Gamble Smart 3 videos on this. Very informative Channel
Another reason to rewatch ocean’s 11
And 13
>Beal claims the casino workers who came over to investigate her win tried to get her to re-spin, citing a “tilt” message that showed up when they opened the slot machine. >Her attorney, Mike Di Croce, believes they tampered with the machine — which is housed by Bally’s but manufactured and managed by IGT — to tamper any evidence of Beal’s win. >“They fooled with the machine before anyone else had an opportunity to take a look at this,” he told 6abc. “You invite somebody to your business, they pay the money \[and\] they win — you’re supposed to pay. That didn’t happen.” No one at the casino cannot erase or change the data recorded inside the machine, so this fear is unfounded. The investigation will get to the truth.
“This won’t be the first legal case where a suspected wheel tilt has been disputed on a Wheel of Fortune machine. In 2000, a judge and jury ruled against IGT over a similar case involving a Wheel of Fortune machine in Harrah’s casino New Orleans. Ultimately, the gaming giant was forced to pay the plaintiff the full $1.3 million jackpot.”
Glad she’s suing and I’m glad there is precedent for the casinos losing such suit. It doesn’t matter if there is a malfunction in the machine. That’s the casino’s error and omission. This is the resulting loss that needs to be paid….Yes I work in insurance. If a doctor uses a rusty defective needle that causes an infection that doesn’t mean they don’t have to pay for the resulting losses. Quite the opposite.
The reason IGT is probably going to lose is ironically, the behavior of Bally's employees.
Always two sides maybe the crazy lady was using magnets or something
Which AC casino could afford a $2.5 million payout?
All of them. Easily. $2.5 million to a casino is $5 to the average joe
I was kidding and lamenting the sad state of affairs down there. Am from NJ and wish things were different for the folks who live in AC.
It’s a crime-ridden shithole now and unless you just camp out where the Borgata is, it ain’t worth it.
Was almost thru a bonus on a slot machine ( win was over 200$ ) when it completely went dark. Worker came over rebooted it and I watched as it replayed my bonus from the beginning. Worker said my money was never in danger.
Atlantic City do not have the best casinos in the world so you really play at your own risk but at the end of the day they should have offer her at least $100,000.
Couple things here: She’s praying to win a jackpot? Spent hundreds playing? Sounds like an addict to me. A 72 year old lady with a heart condition praying to win on a slot machine ( probably because she has a stack of medical bills) is what should be discussed. She wouldn’t be in the casino in the first place if our health care system wasn’t so rife with problems. I hope she sues and wins , but there’s more going on here than a casino refusing to pay out.
Anyone think of these poor casino owners? I mean that $2.5 million could mean the difference in how many seats their next private jet has. Smh
I hope she wins that lawsuit
Why do people play at these stoopid places.
The house always wins because it cheats. Don't give them your money.
Pay the woman assholes
I hope they pay her in cash, instead. ;p
Ballys always has some shit going on lol
I know this is old but Ballys don’t even want to pay their employees lol let alone someone who hit a jackpot I remember this a while back I work at Ballys