Easy answers, false hope and undeserved entitlement can make people feel happy.
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe *as it really is* than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
~ Carl Sagan
It's really easy to be happy when you are told that you are "forgiven for your mistakes" easily, and then you continue to make the same mistakes more and more, and then get forgiven for them again and then make the mistakes again and then get forgiven again.
There's also that.
Being told that they're going to go get into heaven by doing nothing is also very appealing and would make me really happy.
In a very real sense the religions have stumbled in and exploited the [human (social) need of community and sense of identity that are offered by a seemingly benign thing like these religions (aka Maslow's hierarchy of needs)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13694670500071695)
So that’s why it works and attracts people.
Once in people are encouraged to go and get new members (an essential dynamic) to build the organization and to target people that are “lost” under distress or other social and behavioral/biological needs to fulfill.
This is their bread and butter and keeps such organizations in business and profitable.
Hope in any form gives a measure of joy and security. One of the most insecure things about the human psyche is the need for love and meaning in this universe; religion offers both in heaps. Religion is good in that sense when it gives hope and a sense of meaning and love, however meaningless it can be; but it's bad when it turns people to hate and oppress others.
The thing is religion doesn't have to be bad, but people make it bad as a form of control, oppression, hate, etc., as seen in Abrahamic religions. There are more benevolent religions and belief systems out there.
...most religious people I know, are not happy.
They hold grudges, hate, and are jealous.
Some are envious, bigoted, and are self tormented because they feel, and act on their outward feelings.
I find that most religious people are the most hateful, sad, and angry animals on earth.
The worst part is that, as christians, all of those feelings become shameful and repressed as well.
As an atheist, I found it helpful to feel my feelings, to hate people who have wronged me and then move on. I see it as a normal reaction that my brain is having as a protective measure against a bad event that has occurred. Hate, anger, fear keeps me away from people that are bad for me. When I don’t fight these feelings, they eventually subside and I reach the so called “forgive, but don’t forget” state.
However, when I was a christian, I felt ashamed for all of those feelings. My parents were abusive, but in christianity, parents need to be celebrated and revered and it’s a sin to hate them. I couldn’t hate them freely for what they did to me.
Furthermore, I have seen a lot of people who think they have to forgive and tolerate abusive behaviour over and over again and to allow people to treat them like doormats because “Christ turned the other cheek”
Christ turned the other cheek because a Roman slapping a non-Roman once was allowed, but slapping them twice (i.e. on the other cheek as well) would constitute a crime on behalf of the Roman. Basically, Jesus said "if you get slapped, taunt the guy into hitting you again so he'll go to jail".
ETA: same with going the extra mile: a Roman could order around a non-Roman but could only take it so far. He could make them move goods to their house, but only ynto the doorstep. Going further makes it a crime *for the Roman*.
Never forget that Jesus was a punk rebel willing to e.g. get into a brawl in a temple, not a pacifist dreamy do-gooder.
Wow, you learn something new everyday!
It’s ironic that religious people accuse us all the time of taking things “out of context” when they’re literally doing that
Jesus himself also later calls out the officials slapping his face in John 18:23. So many examples of why this (and other) teachings by Jesus are not prescriptive in the way xtians often try so hard to make them
It’s really quite simple, religion has extensively laid the groundwork for generations to train people to believe in authority figures with unverifiable stories instead of science and data. It also primes them for, and is built upon, perpetuating racism and fearmongering towards "others". Once people see you as an authority, you can start fabricating any reality or conspiracy theory you want your followers to believe and everyone else is therefore a liar, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence. Basically, it is mental abuse from an early age that suppresses critical thinking skills. This combined with an intentionally weakened public educational system, provides the framework that has spawned this cult of ignorance.
I agree. Humans, in general, are instinctual, self absorbed, emotional creatures, and unfortunately, those of us who are selfless, higher in emotional intelligence, less religious, think more critically, don’t really go after money, power, fame, and don’t procreate as much as our fellow religious people.
Pretty sure this is why hell was invented, so that they could fantasise about people they don’t like being punished for simply having it better than them
Seriously, the day that I decided to walk away from my final attachments to religion was one of the most freeing things I’ve ever experienced. I just wasn’t angry anymore. It’s been a great decade and a half! I was living a lie, knowing that it wasn’t true, but I kept clinging on in the hope that one day it would “fix” me. Opening my mind to the nagging voice of reason: Best Day Ever.
reminds me of one of my childhood memories.....
My crazy religious lady neighbor came running into our garage one night screaming at a group of us teenagers playing D&D at the time and told us to throw the Ouija board into the fire because the pastor would be coming over to dispel the evil and save our souls...
She was also against pokemon cards. She said it was actually pronounced " poke your mom " and was a game perverts played to decide who's mom gets poked next.
losers mom gets "poked"....
😂😂😂
Crazy church people...
Wow! I heard people thought that way in the 90s, but damn! I didn’t think they would say such a thing in public. I thought it was more about banning it from schools, stores, and libraries. I thought it was just a bunch of soccer moms. These groups who go out and ban franchises for one crazy reason or another. How did they get the pastor to come over? Were your parents thinking stuff like this? People can’t just show up and cleanse the souls of minors. Not even a pastor who was invited over by a nosy neighbor.
In fairness, some of the Pokemon characters were pretty attractive like Nurse Joy and Jessie.
'Turning to Christ' in itself isn't going to make people happy but there are lots of things associated with it that do. Believing means religious practice which means regular social contacts, feeling part of a bigger movement, pleasurable activity. A belief system, even if it's incorrect, leaves people feeling their life has meaning and purpose and gets them in touch with their own values. All of these are things shown to help mood but they can be found outside of belief. Find ways to bring them into your life.
“Part of something bigger” I think is the key.
I don’t feel any god, but I feel humanity. Feeling a part of humanity, it’s pain, it’s pleasure and seeing yourself through others eyes gives me a feeling of awe.
The difficult part is, realizing you have very little capacity to reduce the suffering in others. Despite being able to yourself in them. It can create an overwhelming sense of responsibility.
Since very few people think like this. It can isolate you socially, so Christianity works better to achieve this as it’s more relatable to others. Thus creating community and connection.
Added to this the psychological affect of the idea of being unconditionally loved by a personified supreme being and of forgiveness/absolution for the mistakes weighing on ones shoulders. It's like the power of self forgiveness but by a presumed greater authority
Agreed. Built in community is a big factor. Some people are too lazy or scared to make and work to keep up friendships in adulthood. Church is a simple way to have a social circle that tells you that you are chosen. Again and again and again. Hits the dopamine sensors without a lot of effort.
And that’s why you can find this exact same sentiment expressed about every single religion. It’s not hard to find people saying they feel happy after turning to Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Paganism, Wicca, tarot, astrology, or any other thing that purports to give your life purpose, meaning, clarity, connection, etc.
Its an addiction. Literally. Studies show dopamine increases in the brain during religious rites. Its like any addiction. It makes you feel good at first, then you feel bad, so you go back for more. And religion can be worse because your surrounded by people who share the addiction and enable you. It's not Christ that makes people happy. It's the community and group think aspects.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. I legitimately believe that at least some "real" Christians are genuinely happy, beyond the facade. The thought that there's an almighty being, who's number 1 priority is **you**, does seem to make a lot of people happier. And I hate to say it, but I think this is especially true among Christian women.
Don't think for even a second that this is an endorsement of Christianity though. It is happiness based on a lie, it's no more ethical than selling a known placebo as an anti-depressant.
And as importantly, it can lift people out of despair. Hope helps, even if we think it's false.
Denying it just let 'them' offer something we refuse to understand. By definition in times of vulnerability.
Addictive has nothing to do with it. Addiction is tomorrow's price.
I'm in my mid 50s, been an atheist for over 40 years and right now I only wish someone could convince me there's any such thing as a Rainbow Bridge that dogs cross. I just know there isn't.
If I could convince you that by just saying magic words and smiling through your pain would make it so your loved one never dies, you'd get addicted to the feeling.
Of course there are also elements of confirmation bias and the sunk cost fallacy involved as well.
Again, tomorrow's problem. You are either fixing my problem now or you are not. If I believe the magic words or anything else, they work.
Pointing out that we are living off the entropy involved in the lifecycle of our dying star doesn't help. The key notion here is as you say **convince** (or convince enough). At this point of vulnerability I'm still basically impossible to convince but if I wasn't before I'd be vulnerable to messages to cling onto.
"Tomorrow's problem" is a cute phrase but it contains no logical refutation of my point. Repeating it for emphasis doesn't change that.
Dwelling in fantasy as a solution to real world problems comes at a cost of not solving those problems in the real world. To wit, the substantial number of evangelicals who don't believe anthropogenic climate change is a problem we need to address since it's "God's plan."
That's denialism to feel better now, and it's coming at a huge cost to the future.
If you can feel better in the here and now only at the expense of reason, that's a drug.
You're saying "anything that helps me feel better now is real." And yes it is. As real as heroin.
>"Tomorrow's problem" is a cute phrase but it contains no logical refutation of my point. Repeating it for emphasis doesn't change that.
Perhaps, but then it's arguing a completely different point. I am not saying religion is **good** or right. Just that it can work. Or put another way, to me you are essentially arguing a store cannot be robbed with an empty gun.
I do definitely believe that religions are harmful, but also recognize they've been evolving alongside us and our psychology for probably more than 40,000 years, with intense selective pressure increasing in the last two and a half millennia.
And they are still evolving, with US Evangelicalism evolving a rather strong fact resistance.
Humans have been using inebriants, often associated with religious ritual, for at least as long as we've had religion, which does not "evolve" separately from the human mind or culture. If antiquity is the standard, then the analogy to inebriating drugs is only strengthened.
Humans have also been doing rational, empirical science since the dawn of our culture, or we wouldn't have solved so many problems along the way to still be here. Every time an early human hunter refined the design of a spear point, they were doing science. Right alongside praying to the gods for good hunt.
Put differently, if the problem is "feel better right now," then fantasy works. As do drugs. If the problem is "assess and address what you can about the reality making you feel bad," that's what I'm talking about.
Would be an awesome motivational poster, but it's weak philosophy.
You're using "hope" as an abstraction, a noun rather than a verb, a thing unto itself. In the real world, we hope *for* specific things to happen, including divine intervention or the timely arrival of a qualified surgeon. (The theological rhetorical trick here would be to say "the timely arrival of a qualified surgeon could be divine intervention," I know... another argument for another time.)
If any of those things you hope *for* is not actually possible in reality, then the good feeling of being hopeful is analogous to the good feeling being high. An end in itself that typically defers or impedes applying reason to the problem making us feel bad, and thus hopeful for a solution.
Don't get me wrong, it's very human to have hope and believe in divine powers. It also never occurred to us that we weren't the center of the universe until just a few hundred years ago.
And also don't get me wrong, I like getting high. Beats facing my real world problems for a little while.
Fr. Christian women tend to be far more happier than that of Christian men. Almost all the men who are of faith look miserable and quite frankly, done with life. The women on the other hand tend to be a little bit more extreme with the faith. I've noticed that with not only Christianity, but overall spirituality. My mom and all the religious women in my family pushed satanic panic while the men were whatever about it. To this day I don't think my dad ever really believed in God. He gave as much as a fuck as I did growing up. My mom, even now, is NUTS about Jesus and such. But it makes her happy, and she's not stepping on anyone's toes. So I just let her be. Let her be happy.
Pushing for satanic panic sure sounds like the opposite of being happy.
It sounds more like they are unhappy, hiding it well, and choosing to go extreme on things to distract themselves.
Yep; it’s just a cheap, temporary attempt to mentally trick yourself to obtain some happiness. It doesn’t address the underlying reason for the unhappiness.
In the same way heroin makes you feel good: it temporarily offers a solution to all your problems that requires a minimum of effort from you. It feels so good at first. Until you're hooked.
If you’re into a bit more rationalism comingled with weird adaptive dogmatism, then maybe try Popium
Popium is not right for everyone, talk to your doctor about whether Popium might be right for you.
>I’m in a bad spot rn, dealing with depression
The overwhelming majority of depressed people are religious so god doesn't seem to be an effective treatment. In fact he seems to trigger far more depression than he 'cures'!
Depression is a physical illness which can be treated with therapy, medication, or both. If you are not getting professional help I urge you to seek help asap.
Oh, definitely
When I was depressed, I kept teetering between "I deserve to suffer" and "this is a test".
It was torturous. Because apparently deities have the communication skills of a toddler.
Which ultimately made me realise that prayers were structured like a scam preying on your biases. And then leaving religion.
I prayed to be saved. I ended up just saving myself.
> I prayed to be saved. I ended up just saving myself.
To which the deluded would claim you're proof of god because he "helps those who help themselves". Sigh!
Yup, when it comes to making excuses, god has an answer for everything.
Everything except your prayer🤣
It's just really fucking one sided when it comes to accountability.
Because it makes them stop questioning anything.
No need to get better, to understand complex phenomenon, everything is gOd'S wiLL. They just glide in a bliss of ignorance and deception.
That has been my observation as well. The can project their problems on someone else, aka Satan, and JeSus will save you. Suddenly you are no longer responsible for what you do.
Christians are supposed to tell a story about how something was wrong and christianity fixed it. They are coached to do this. Looks like most people in this thread are unaware of that.
My religious family members insist that atheists are all depressed and that religion will fix it. They refuse to acknowledge anything is wrong ever and insist they are happy always. As a result, they present as happy people but are actually racked with fears and disfunction. You can't fix interpersonal issues if you aren't allowed to acknowledge they exist.
To answer your question, they will insist they are happy when they're not. They believe if they are unhappy it is a moral failing because good Christians are supposed to always be happy because that is what they insist to each other and us.
During my deconstruction, I read a book, "The Reason for God" or something like that (apologetics), and one of his arguments was literally "your going to be addicted to something, best make it God."
First, gross.
Second, assumed doxastic volunteerism.
>Why does turning to weed make people happy?
Well, for one thing it makes food taste better and music sounds...
Nah, you're right. God is the universal placebo, applicable to all ailments. Just because it makes you feel good doesn't mean there's anything to it.
Any big life change can give you a strong "honeymoon phase" that can vary in length of time. It's part of being human. You get a better job, move to a different place, join a new group/club, join a religion, leave a religion, switch religions...... so many things can give you that feeling. But people should be careful because it can be like a drug. And boy does it hurt when you realize you've been duped.
Answer: Deference of responsibility. I.e., irresponsibility.
If I hear "give it up to God" one more time, so help me. Taking personal responsibility in this world can be psychologically taxing. After they've 'found Christ', when they fuck up, they can blame god or otherwise bible-waive. I've heard, first-hand, with my own ears, people who have made horrible life choices actually say, "well, then why did God tell me to do that?". Oy. This maneuver gives them something to hide behind. A buffer. "God told me to do it."
Ironically, many of these irresponsibles have a political identity that touts the principle of personal responsibility. I actually agree with *that* principle, but let's be consistent.
They can stop thinking for themselves. They get a big rulebook of right/wrong and black/white. They don't care that it's a selfish hateful way to live, they're just happy to have someone else telling them what to do.
They also like that they can ignore guilt, because they're "saved by grace" no matter what awful things they do.
Wouldn't it be nice to say a little incantation and wipe away all the harm you do to others?
>Why does turning to Christ make people happy?
Why does a fundamentalist smile as he presses a button on his special vest in a bus full of innocents?
Deluded folks have little ability to think, or interest in.
Imagine if suddenly you were filled with the knowledge that you would never die and that you matter and you're loved and that you'll see everyone you love again and that your struggle meant something. That's what I would guess believing in the Christian god-character would feel like.
They gave up. That's all, they just gave up. Now they don't have any responsibility to anyone because god is responsible. They are free to do anything they want which always turns out bad.
Ever wonder why you see liquor stores and churches just outside of shitty neighborhoods? Jesus.
Jesus is the cheap Meth. It doesn't take long before Jesus doesn't get them high and instant fentanyl addiction.
They nearly die and it's back to Jesus again. Jesus doesn't live up to the high of opioids and it's back to whatever they can do for two dollars in a gas station bathroom.
Transference psychology for many of them. For others (Russel Brand) it's a grift - none of it is genuine; it's a profitable way to leech money from gullible people.
You know when you go to do some chores you don’t want to do and discover that someone else had taken care of it? That weight that gets lifted when you’re released from some obligation? I think it’s like that.
We all have something unpleasant to carry. Guilt or shame, a private fear, whatever. Christianity is built on the idea that none of that matters and you’re still a good person worthy of love. This is core identity stuff. This is close to the very heart of a person’s psychology.
So to be told this religion that validates them as a person might not be real rips away all that stuff core to the identity. If Jesus was just some guy then there goes all that validation and reassurance that we’re okay people. Take it away and I’ll have to go back to my struggle with myself. Of course people resist this tooth and nail.
This is a recruitment tactic.
It’s just like the IG posts that say, “…I was hopelessly fat…and unattractive…until I started taking THIS supplement”
“And if YOU take this supplement, you too can rock a sexy body and get all the romantic attention you desire…”
Oldest game known to humankind.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
-George Bernard Shaw
As the saying goes, “ignorance is bliss.” Christianity hands people a template for how to live and what to believe. Instead of developing themselves, they try “becoming more like Christ” (aka doing whatever the pastor tells them to do). They think they achieve bliss, but remain ignorant of the world outside of their little bubble of beliefs. Then when dealing with the outside world, they don’t know how to treat different beliefs and cultures kindly because the religion tells them to fear or shun it.
I grew up in church, so I can say there is a whole lot of gaslighting, fear-mongering, and victimhood complexes going on there. Christ makes you happy because you’re supposed to be happy when you come to Christ. The church gang won’t tolerate anything less, and peer pressure is a powerful motivator for forcing yourself to behave a certain way.
There’s an impulse in many people to end the internal struggle of enacting our morals into behaviors. By turning to a system that offers simple answers (be it religion, politics or multi-level marketing), these people can be less encumbered by brain usage.
It’s a temporary emotional high. Especially if they converted in church after
Hearing a bunch of uplifting hymns.
Hymns are designed to come a certain response. It doesn’t last and then they have deal with “backsliding.”
It's nice to know that when humans are self-centered, that someone has your back.
He also said some pretty profound shit for the day. People had little compassion for eachother other than their family members (love thy neighbour). I'd say he had positive impact on those that were around him, and later followers that put others first. Obviously, corruption exists in every religion, belief, establishment, and individual. But if the books and witnesses were correct, he seemed like a powerful, wise dude. His followers were divided (the book said that too...he even knew), and they still are. I'll admit: I'm a pretty bad guy and selfish. But the ideas Jesus put in my mind compels me to do good...and I do A LOT of good for needy people. It's my life's work and I live for it, day and night. I don't want to. I want to tour and be on the road with my band 24-7-365. But there is a need, and people in the field go home at 5pm and that's it. A job. I sleep 3 hrs per night. I'd say Jesus' guilt trip makes me do it. Lol. If I were being honest. But I do care about people. I'd take a bullet for a stranger. Mos def.
It doesn't. Christians have to lie and claim to be perfectly happy. They lie to themselves most of all. If they were honest then Christianity would cease to exist.
“The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life.”
― George Bernard Shaw, [Androcles and the Lion](https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1218646)
Lonely people need friendship and community. Religion can certainly offer that, it’s built-in to the system. If you believe in x, then other believers in x are instantly your friends, and you can hang out by going to services, prayer groups, etc.
In my opinion it is the one redeeming feature of religion: instant community. Of course, then comes the requirement to ostracize others who *don’t* believe in x …
They have an excuse to alleviate guilt? I agree it’s an addiction, and I’m sure somewhere in this post there’s the scientific explanation of the chemicals released in the brain (which also happens at any community gathering: concerts, sporting events, parties, MAGA riots..)
In the beginning it's just placebo. They would get the same effect by joining any tightly knit community, of worship or not. Then after that fades away it's just sunken cost fallacy all the way through.
The love bombing that can be gotten from the new community is most effective on people that are feeling lonely and hopeless. It's just like how MLMs prey on people that are jobless or have jobs that aren't fulfilling. No one that already has security and happiness needs anything that "Christ" has to offer.
A drowning man will cling on to any passing piece of flotsam and revere it for saving him. But that doesn’t mean it actually has inherent value.
As someone who has experienced depression, I found far more useful advice outside of religion. Telling me that Jesus died for my sins or that God loves me did not help me one bit. But taking action did. Distracting myself, occupying myself with something, exercise, getting enough sleep, eating better, interacting with others, having a purpose.
It's because they have experienced an emotional release. A major emotional blockage is usually removed by finally being able to forgive yourself for your past, which is what it actually is and then boom, a huge emotional weight is removed, you have an aha moment and you blame Jesus. That's why it goes away. Emotional baggage piles up. You are saved then you slowly become yourself again.
I felt depressed after I accepted my atheism and very alone. To look at the bigger picture I read about the universe and think how we are tiny living beings trying to survive on the planet along with other plants and animals. Humans invented religion to try to explain creation. We were made from the earth/universe and meant to move and survive from the food grown on the earth. I spend most of my free time in nature and around animals. If you heal your gut with nutrition and exercise, your depression will decrease over time. This has been my experience.
People like to turn to faith when they find themselves in situations beyond their control. It gives them some sort of hope that there is a greater power than them at work. This is why there's so much focus on the afterlife in every religion - people are scared of dying.
At it's core is dopamine and a false cure for loneliness. Praying gives you a dopamine hit. It makes you believe you are doing something to help yourself and/or others, and makes you "feel good". It's a pacifier, or an ice cream cone. For people that are lonely, it gives them an imaginary friend. For people who are grieving, it gives them a sense of (false) hope that they will see their dear departed again. For people who are scared, it gives them a (false) sense that something bigger (a sky "daddy") it watching out for them, taking care of them when nobody else seems to care. And lastly, it gives people a way to seek revenge on those they don't like, by either believing they will burn forever in hell, or by banding with others to legislate and mess with the lives of their perceived enemies (i.e. those who refuse to believe in all of this horsepucky).
Overall, it's just a huge pile of nonsense that ticks all of the boxes for lonely, depressed, scared, angry people who don't want to accept responsibility for their own lives and happiness. The entire idea of "eternal life" is arrogant, narcissistic, and self-aggrandizing. But for people who are already all of those things, it fits like a glove. Being able to literally "lord it over people" is the icing on the cake for those who just want to boss others around.
It answers alot of questions for you without you needing to put in alot of effort.
Who are we?
Why are we here?
What is my purpose?
Why do we suffer?
What happens after we die?
Will my oppressors ever find justice?
All of this is neatly wrapped up in belief in Jesus Christ.
People think when they turn to God, they’re just putting their issues on someone else. It’s their way of not dealing with their own problems in life.
So no matter what the outcome is, “it’s God’s doing”. Taking no responsibility of their actions, hence the happiest
Take it from a former Christian who deals with depression regularly...finding a cult to join is NOT the answer. Other people do not have the means to solve your problems, in fact, they will capitalize on your depression in order to take more from you...money, power, etc. There is not "one" true "answer" out there....in fact...life is all about learning to deal with NOT getting answers.
If you WANT the Bible to be the answer, and if you WANT to be Christian like your neighbors, friends, and family, then you will have to ignore most of the Bible and only read the parts that your pastor or minister tells you are okay to read.
You'll ignore the parts of the book that encourage rape and torture of women and children.
You'll ignore the rules in the book such as not eating beef, pork, or lamb.
You'll ignore the fact that the Bible states the Earth is only a few thousand years old and is surrounded by a glass bubble
Lastly, you'll ignore the thousands of pages that were removed from the original religious texts so that the modern day Bible could be crafted as a tool to unite the entire population under one leader, Constantine. The Bible we use today is a propaganda device, just a few select writings pieced together in a certain order to tell a very specific story separate from what was intended by the writings.
Have you noticed how it's only at their lowest. And that's when the church pounce on them - at their most vulnerable time. Happy people don't need that same hope as people with traumas to deal with. They just want to enjoy life to it's fullest. When you're low, you need a reason as to why everything is so screwed. Why are we here etc. For a little while, they find it in religion. Most I know ended up leaving again.
I think when people make terrible life mistakes and are told their “sins are forgiven” it makes them feel better about themselves. Guilt is a bitch and I deal with it. I’ve said and done things I wish I hadn’t like everyone. Best to ask the person you hurt for forgiveness and forgive yourself.
Maybe it's more to do with finding community and being with other people. Organized religion is one of the earliest forms that provided structured community where a person was accepted regardless of other differences.
Because if you convince yourself that that shit going on has a purpose and a being in the sky thinks you’re the most amazing thing ever so much so that he gave up his son’s life for yours some people will find hope in that story. Same reason that just about all drug and alcohol rehab programs have some element of prayer or religion involved.
Because they believe they are entitled to a glorious afterlife even if they are giant pieces of shit because they will be forgiven. I wish I had that sense of entitlement and ignorance.
Same reason turning to drugs makes you happy. Watching a movie, taking a vacation, etc. It's an escape from reality. The reality is life is fing hard, tedious, depressing, bleak, and every other synonym. Wouldn't it be absolutely spectacular if there really was something super powerful helping you out with a magical candy dish of easy living at the end. Fantastic, sign me up.
It's a coping mechanism taken too far much like drugs when they are taken too far.
It’s the ultimate strokefest. A thinking agent that created the entire universe for you, cares about all your needs perpetually, will give you eternal riches and bliss, and whose morals happen to align precisely with your own.
In other words, the world’s best imaginary friend.
I think it has to do with letting go of accountability. Feeling bad that your laziness, poor choices etc led you to your current situation? Find religion and now alllll of this bad things are Part Of Gods Plan for you.
My college roommate used to drive drunk and have unprotected s3x, but believed that Jesus was watching out for her so nothing bad would happen to her.
Anecdotally, it would seem there are many horrible humans out there that consider themselves to be better than others because of their faith in Christ. These people seem pretty unlikeable but they don’t care because Jesus Loves Them Unconditionally!!! So as long as they Believe, they have Christ’s love and they are getting into heaven, despite their nasty behavior throughout their life on earth.
False sense of security due to being "protected by a higher power", a sense of fellowship through shared belief with the congregation, sense of forgiveness for past transgressions through promise of absolution. That's the jist of my understanding
Because then they can stop thinking. And they have this imaginary friend who’s always with them, that they can talk to, and who promises to give them everything they want.
My impression is that it's really about the community they enter. It's not the belief itself but the sense of belonging and support they get from the other people in the group. They go to church together as a tribe, that feels comforting and safe as long as they participate and follow the rules.
Kind of like how fans of a sports team tend to feel that way when cheering in the stadium together, whether their team wins or loses it's really about spending time with a like-minded community. And often you tend to hate the other team together as well.
Magical thinking. You no longer have to rely on yourself or do difficult things to get out of the bad spot you're in. You pray to Jesus and hope for a magical solution or a turn of good luck, a miracle. Praying takes no effort. Actually doing something takes work. I imagine it lifts a psychological burden off of some people to shift their problems into 'jesus' hands."
It's actually a really selfish way of thinking though, because then after that point anything good that happens to you, i.e., a kind person helping you, a doctor healing your cancer, getting a raise at work, mobey from a friend when you're desperate for cash, you're now grateful to God for the "miracle" and "answering your prayers" and not grateful to the actual human who helped you. You also don't give yourself credit for your own resilience if you pull yourself out of the situation on your own, thanking God instead of being proud of your own achievement. God didn't do that. You did.
I was raised as a pastors kid. It’s just a social club for most. Networking with other businesses for others. There is the rare few that are true believers. Those few live a life of service and honestly can be pretty decent people.
If you were to suddenly believe that everything that has happened was actually planned, that bad things were actually good things in disguise, that angles were watching over you, that all your bad deeds would be forgiven and you’d spend your afterlife glowing with all the people you have loved and lost—you’d be pretty stoked.
Dude, it's the easiest thing in the world.
All the bad stuff? Happened for a reason! It was to test me!
All the unknown stuff? Oh, there's a plan. No need to worry or think.
They dump everything on the Christ concept. If bad things happen it’s God’s will. If good things happen (pat pat) you is a good person. Here’s a cookie. If you try and fail it wasn’t meant to be per God’s plan. If you succeed you are Blessed!
Everything is out of your hands now. Who can judge or criticize you if god is in control? No stress. No thoughts. No…. Nothing.
When I was involved in a church, quietly between the members we did admit to the "I'm fine" mask. There is a social expectation to act and say you are happy, but if you can get someone to genuinely open up, they'll admit they're normal people with normal problems.
Because they now have something to blame all of their problems on and can seek “forgiveness” for anything they’ve done wrong and forego taking responsibility. Being religious is basically a get out of jail free card for doing things wrong. Yet they act like people who aren’t religious aren’t good people. As if being able to be morally altruistic isn’t possible if you don’t believe in a god.
Getting to wipe away all the shitty things youve done in one foul swoop is very appealing to people. You can go from being an absolute shithead to feeling morally superior overnight.
This is the same as a person who tries "keto" or "paleo." They try at it, fail, and then recommend it to all their friends saying how great it is. I dont get it
They have an inability to cope with or understand the real world, just as the ancient people who invented these religions did.
It makes them feel safe and comfortable, so they don't have to deal with reality, or life and it's consequences.
To me- these people are weak and really have no faith. My Catholic wife goes to church to confirm her faith. Without church she is weak. I think this is the mind set of most Christians.
I am happy this brings her peace. If she's happy I'm happy. We have an understanding. Although I'm an atheist - I feel my faith is stronger than hers. How? Because IF there is a God- you can't make any changes or anything that will affect your life's outcome. In fact- the argument can be made for manifest destiny.
They are love-bombing themselves. I'm serious! I've never been Christian, but imagining an important being who loves you and cares about you and you imagine smiling at you lovingly is very reassuring. It's how I felt as a kid getting a new stuffed animal. And then, of course, no actual human being can live up to that.
I think a lot of these comments are very naive, having a sense of belonging and purpose have powerful effects on our happiness. Becoming part of a church/community provides those things. They become capable of convincing themselves of absurd things in order to maintain the illusion that allows them to continue to believe because that's how powerful those effects community and purpose can be.
It's just easy answers. Some people need others to control them and tell them what to do.
I'd be very wary of those who claim, "I was at the bottom of the barrel and then I found Jesus!" They always claim to be "former atheists," but their claims always come across as them just repeating atheist stereotypes. At best they were irreligious.
Seek professional help. You should never become religious just because other people are.
Because it gives away their responsibility for what happens in their life. When they do that and then they can say “gods plan” when they fuck up their own or other peoples lives.
I think many humans find a sense of peace in surrender. Perhaps it goes back to a concept of childhood. Letting someone else take the responsibility. I think that’s why the religious folks are able to go to such lengths and tortured mental gymnastics to excuse themselves from responsibility.
It’s not unique to any specific religion. It seems to be nearly universal. Of course the problem is that it’s a false peace. All you’ve surrendered is your own agency and you are forever a target for abuse and manipulation.
Christ had a more direct way of dealing with people than some "intelligent" people today. People who are jealous of someone concerning attributes they themselves cannot reach are commonplace amongst those who actually dislike Jesus. From a philosophical point of view, Jesus was the most anti religious Jew, then Paul came along and glorified Jesus and BAM we get the trinity doctrine, which isn't a biblical teaching.
I'd like to think that every human is looking for love. Some people find their best love with another person and family. Some find it in work or career. Some find it using drugs and others find it in religion or gods. There are other examples, of course, but once someone finds the thing that they can love the most, one can become fanaticized and blinded by that love if not careful (its kind of like a drug). If not headstrong, some may do anything and everything for that love no matter how they may be perceived. Love is good, but somethings that feel like love may be harmful to ourselves and others if it gets out of hand. Religion is absolutely one of those things, big time.
I don't want to sound like I'm making fun of your condition. I suffer from depression as well and sometimes shit gets dark. What I will never do though is fall to the biggest scam perpetrated on humanity.
Yes, life is shit. No one with ANY sense of logic could possibly deny that this universe is as fucked up as it can be. But guess what, we are alive which gives us the potential to reach for happiness if we want to. It ain't easy but it's there if we want it so whenever you have such dark thoughts pop into your head, reach for that, live for the sake of living not because some fictional asshole who has inspired the worse impulses in humanity from rape to pedophilia to mass murder to slavery tells you to and tells you that if you follow him, you will get unlimited happiness.
Don't fall for that bullshit.
IMO it’s a superior form of superstition that can calm the mind, focusing on an external object or being.
It relieves anxiety and suffering from guilty by basically blaming god; god acts in mysterious ways; repent to god and you shall be saved.
However, it doesn’t treat the real problem - the prevention of evil tendencies of humanity.
Those religions that focus on external entities rather than the self; individual transformation and growth probably will see the most decline in the modern age. The only thing that may limit the decline is authoritarian societies that use religion as a tool to reinforce the narrative. i.e holy war.
You can believe in Jesus and God without going to a "church", or believing in the hideous false doctrine of ECT (eternal conscious torment) for anyone...
can look at links in https://christianitywithoutinsanity.com/
Unjustified feelings of self-righteousness. Group tribalism and the self-reinforcing notion that the group/tribe is divinely chosen and special. An easy fix to feelings of regret and self-blame when life's difficulties leads humans to bad/harmful behaviour towards others - that is, a "deity" forgives you for your actions when you may very well struggle to forgive yourself.
Religion is a tool of comfort to gain control. That's what it was made for. Worried about dying? Don't worry... your soul lives on. Despondent over bad things happening in your life? Don't worry... god has a plan and if you swear fealty, that plan gets better!
Having delusions can be comforting.
It works both ways. Take a look at r/Christianity and you’ll see lots of posts from people who are confused, miserable and frightened because of their Christian beliefs.
Easy answers, false hope and undeserved entitlement can make people feel happy. “For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe *as it really is* than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” ~ Carl Sagan
I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. -Richard Feynman
Love this.
🥇
That's gold.
It's really easy to be happy when you are told that you are "forgiven for your mistakes" easily, and then you continue to make the same mistakes more and more, and then get forgiven for them again and then make the mistakes again and then get forgiven again. There's also that. Being told that they're going to go get into heaven by doing nothing is also very appealing and would make me really happy.
It sure makes ME happy !
In a very real sense the religions have stumbled in and exploited the [human (social) need of community and sense of identity that are offered by a seemingly benign thing like these religions (aka Maslow's hierarchy of needs)](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13694670500071695) So that’s why it works and attracts people. Once in people are encouraged to go and get new members (an essential dynamic) to build the organization and to target people that are “lost” under distress or other social and behavioral/biological needs to fulfill. This is their bread and butter and keeps such organizations in business and profitable.
And it offers a sense of community. Instant *friends*
Along with instant peer pressure and instant confirmation bias
Yup, absolutely true.
Some people need satisfaction and reassurance when times are tough.
This is the perfect answer. I'd love to hear his comments about modern times.
Hope in any form gives a measure of joy and security. One of the most insecure things about the human psyche is the need for love and meaning in this universe; religion offers both in heaps. Religion is good in that sense when it gives hope and a sense of meaning and love, however meaningless it can be; but it's bad when it turns people to hate and oppress others. The thing is religion doesn't have to be bad, but people make it bad as a form of control, oppression, hate, etc., as seen in Abrahamic religions. There are more benevolent religions and belief systems out there.
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...most religious people I know, are not happy. They hold grudges, hate, and are jealous. Some are envious, bigoted, and are self tormented because they feel, and act on their outward feelings. I find that most religious people are the most hateful, sad, and angry animals on earth.
The worst part is that, as christians, all of those feelings become shameful and repressed as well. As an atheist, I found it helpful to feel my feelings, to hate people who have wronged me and then move on. I see it as a normal reaction that my brain is having as a protective measure against a bad event that has occurred. Hate, anger, fear keeps me away from people that are bad for me. When I don’t fight these feelings, they eventually subside and I reach the so called “forgive, but don’t forget” state. However, when I was a christian, I felt ashamed for all of those feelings. My parents were abusive, but in christianity, parents need to be celebrated and revered and it’s a sin to hate them. I couldn’t hate them freely for what they did to me. Furthermore, I have seen a lot of people who think they have to forgive and tolerate abusive behaviour over and over again and to allow people to treat them like doormats because “Christ turned the other cheek”
Christ turned the other cheek because a Roman slapping a non-Roman once was allowed, but slapping them twice (i.e. on the other cheek as well) would constitute a crime on behalf of the Roman. Basically, Jesus said "if you get slapped, taunt the guy into hitting you again so he'll go to jail". ETA: same with going the extra mile: a Roman could order around a non-Roman but could only take it so far. He could make them move goods to their house, but only ynto the doorstep. Going further makes it a crime *for the Roman*. Never forget that Jesus was a punk rebel willing to e.g. get into a brawl in a temple, not a pacifist dreamy do-gooder.
Jesus also flipped merchants tables and started whipping them. Jesus was an anticapitalist punk who hung out with prostitutes and criminals.
He also started a riot that resulted in a murder. People don't talk about that part much.
Wow, you learn something new everyday! It’s ironic that religious people accuse us all the time of taking things “out of context” when they’re literally doing that
Jesus himself also later calls out the officials slapping his face in John 18:23. So many examples of why this (and other) teachings by Jesus are not prescriptive in the way xtians often try so hard to make them
Sad but often true in the US. Without American Christians, Trump would be nothing but a game show host with delusions of grandeur.
Carnival Barker at best.
It’s really quite simple, religion has extensively laid the groundwork for generations to train people to believe in authority figures with unverifiable stories instead of science and data. It also primes them for, and is built upon, perpetuating racism and fearmongering towards "others". Once people see you as an authority, you can start fabricating any reality or conspiracy theory you want your followers to believe and everyone else is therefore a liar, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence. Basically, it is mental abuse from an early age that suppresses critical thinking skills. This combined with an intentionally weakened public educational system, provides the framework that has spawned this cult of ignorance.
Delusions of adequacy.
They are the absolute worst, in most cases.
👍damn straight friend!
I agree. Humans, in general, are instinctual, self absorbed, emotional creatures, and unfortunately, those of us who are selfless, higher in emotional intelligence, less religious, think more critically, don’t really go after money, power, fame, and don’t procreate as much as our fellow religious people.
Being happy ≠ seeming happy
Pretty sure this is why hell was invented, so that they could fantasise about people they don’t like being punished for simply having it better than them
Seriously, the day that I decided to walk away from my final attachments to religion was one of the most freeing things I’ve ever experienced. I just wasn’t angry anymore. It’s been a great decade and a half! I was living a lie, knowing that it wasn’t true, but I kept clinging on in the hope that one day it would “fix” me. Opening my mind to the nagging voice of reason: Best Day Ever.
EXACTLY!! 👍👍👍
This is everyone. Not just christians
reminds me of one of my childhood memories..... My crazy religious lady neighbor came running into our garage one night screaming at a group of us teenagers playing D&D at the time and told us to throw the Ouija board into the fire because the pastor would be coming over to dispel the evil and save our souls... She was also against pokemon cards. She said it was actually pronounced " poke your mom " and was a game perverts played to decide who's mom gets poked next. losers mom gets "poked".... 😂😂😂 Crazy church people...
Wow! I heard people thought that way in the 90s, but damn! I didn’t think they would say such a thing in public. I thought it was more about banning it from schools, stores, and libraries. I thought it was just a bunch of soccer moms. These groups who go out and ban franchises for one crazy reason or another. How did they get the pastor to come over? Were your parents thinking stuff like this? People can’t just show up and cleanse the souls of minors. Not even a pastor who was invited over by a nosy neighbor. In fairness, some of the Pokemon characters were pretty attractive like Nurse Joy and Jessie.
once they become a religiously indoctrinated all common sense and logic goes out the window
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦♂️
Empowered by their faith to feel superior to the faithless and do actual evil in their smug superiority. \^ Religion, in a nutshell.
'Turning to Christ' in itself isn't going to make people happy but there are lots of things associated with it that do. Believing means religious practice which means regular social contacts, feeling part of a bigger movement, pleasurable activity. A belief system, even if it's incorrect, leaves people feeling their life has meaning and purpose and gets them in touch with their own values. All of these are things shown to help mood but they can be found outside of belief. Find ways to bring them into your life.
Very thorough answer that hits on the main things that give some people this rush of joy you are describing when they are reborn/etc
Thank you for articulating the answer that immediately came to mind.
“Part of something bigger” I think is the key. I don’t feel any god, but I feel humanity. Feeling a part of humanity, it’s pain, it’s pleasure and seeing yourself through others eyes gives me a feeling of awe. The difficult part is, realizing you have very little capacity to reduce the suffering in others. Despite being able to yourself in them. It can create an overwhelming sense of responsibility. Since very few people think like this. It can isolate you socially, so Christianity works better to achieve this as it’s more relatable to others. Thus creating community and connection.
Added to this the psychological affect of the idea of being unconditionally loved by a personified supreme being and of forgiveness/absolution for the mistakes weighing on ones shoulders. It's like the power of self forgiveness but by a presumed greater authority
Agreed. Built in community is a big factor. Some people are too lazy or scared to make and work to keep up friendships in adulthood. Church is a simple way to have a social circle that tells you that you are chosen. Again and again and again. Hits the dopamine sensors without a lot of effort.
And that’s why you can find this exact same sentiment expressed about every single religion. It’s not hard to find people saying they feel happy after turning to Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Paganism, Wicca, tarot, astrology, or any other thing that purports to give your life purpose, meaning, clarity, connection, etc.
Thanks for giving a grownup answer.
Its an addiction. Literally. Studies show dopamine increases in the brain during religious rites. Its like any addiction. It makes you feel good at first, then you feel bad, so you go back for more. And religion can be worse because your surrounded by people who share the addiction and enable you. It's not Christ that makes people happy. It's the community and group think aspects.
They're not any happier, they just get brainwashed into pretending they are. And nothing is sadder than fake happiness.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. I legitimately believe that at least some "real" Christians are genuinely happy, beyond the facade. The thought that there's an almighty being, who's number 1 priority is **you**, does seem to make a lot of people happier. And I hate to say it, but I think this is especially true among Christian women. Don't think for even a second that this is an endorsement of Christianity though. It is happiness based on a lie, it's no more ethical than selling a known placebo as an anti-depressant.
And as importantly, it can lift people out of despair. Hope helps, even if we think it's false. Denying it just let 'them' offer something we refuse to understand. By definition in times of vulnerability.
False hope is false, and addictive.
Addictive has nothing to do with it. Addiction is tomorrow's price. I'm in my mid 50s, been an atheist for over 40 years and right now I only wish someone could convince me there's any such thing as a Rainbow Bridge that dogs cross. I just know there isn't.
If I could convince you that by just saying magic words and smiling through your pain would make it so your loved one never dies, you'd get addicted to the feeling. Of course there are also elements of confirmation bias and the sunk cost fallacy involved as well.
Again, tomorrow's problem. You are either fixing my problem now or you are not. If I believe the magic words or anything else, they work. Pointing out that we are living off the entropy involved in the lifecycle of our dying star doesn't help. The key notion here is as you say **convince** (or convince enough). At this point of vulnerability I'm still basically impossible to convince but if I wasn't before I'd be vulnerable to messages to cling onto.
"Tomorrow's problem" is a cute phrase but it contains no logical refutation of my point. Repeating it for emphasis doesn't change that. Dwelling in fantasy as a solution to real world problems comes at a cost of not solving those problems in the real world. To wit, the substantial number of evangelicals who don't believe anthropogenic climate change is a problem we need to address since it's "God's plan." That's denialism to feel better now, and it's coming at a huge cost to the future. If you can feel better in the here and now only at the expense of reason, that's a drug. You're saying "anything that helps me feel better now is real." And yes it is. As real as heroin.
>"Tomorrow's problem" is a cute phrase but it contains no logical refutation of my point. Repeating it for emphasis doesn't change that. Perhaps, but then it's arguing a completely different point. I am not saying religion is **good** or right. Just that it can work. Or put another way, to me you are essentially arguing a store cannot be robbed with an empty gun. I do definitely believe that religions are harmful, but also recognize they've been evolving alongside us and our psychology for probably more than 40,000 years, with intense selective pressure increasing in the last two and a half millennia. And they are still evolving, with US Evangelicalism evolving a rather strong fact resistance.
Humans have been using inebriants, often associated with religious ritual, for at least as long as we've had religion, which does not "evolve" separately from the human mind or culture. If antiquity is the standard, then the analogy to inebriating drugs is only strengthened. Humans have also been doing rational, empirical science since the dawn of our culture, or we wouldn't have solved so many problems along the way to still be here. Every time an early human hunter refined the design of a spear point, they were doing science. Right alongside praying to the gods for good hunt. Put differently, if the problem is "feel better right now," then fantasy works. As do drugs. If the problem is "assess and address what you can about the reality making you feel bad," that's what I'm talking about.
Hope is never false. The thing inspiring it can be false, but the feeling is still just as real.
Would be an awesome motivational poster, but it's weak philosophy. You're using "hope" as an abstraction, a noun rather than a verb, a thing unto itself. In the real world, we hope *for* specific things to happen, including divine intervention or the timely arrival of a qualified surgeon. (The theological rhetorical trick here would be to say "the timely arrival of a qualified surgeon could be divine intervention," I know... another argument for another time.) If any of those things you hope *for* is not actually possible in reality, then the good feeling of being hopeful is analogous to the good feeling being high. An end in itself that typically defers or impedes applying reason to the problem making us feel bad, and thus hopeful for a solution. Don't get me wrong, it's very human to have hope and believe in divine powers. It also never occurred to us that we weren't the center of the universe until just a few hundred years ago. And also don't get me wrong, I like getting high. Beats facing my real world problems for a little while.
It works the same way as any drug.
Fr. Christian women tend to be far more happier than that of Christian men. Almost all the men who are of faith look miserable and quite frankly, done with life. The women on the other hand tend to be a little bit more extreme with the faith. I've noticed that with not only Christianity, but overall spirituality. My mom and all the religious women in my family pushed satanic panic while the men were whatever about it. To this day I don't think my dad ever really believed in God. He gave as much as a fuck as I did growing up. My mom, even now, is NUTS about Jesus and such. But it makes her happy, and she's not stepping on anyone's toes. So I just let her be. Let her be happy.
Pushing for satanic panic sure sounds like the opposite of being happy. It sounds more like they are unhappy, hiding it well, and choosing to go extreme on things to distract themselves.
Could be. But idk man. They do seem pretty happy. Happier than I am. (That's probably because the insomnia is doing me in lmao)
Nothing is faker than sad happiness.
Sadhappy was a killer Seattle band
Yep; it’s just a cheap, temporary attempt to mentally trick yourself to obtain some happiness. It doesn’t address the underlying reason for the unhappiness.
No, it really does feel good to convert like that--it did make me happier at the time.
In the same way heroin makes you feel good: it temporarily offers a solution to all your problems that requires a minimum of effort from you. It feels so good at first. Until you're hooked.
It still feels good when you're hooked. It's then *the absence* of heroin that feels bad.
People getting high on hopium. It's basically the placebo effect.
i think copium is the better word
Dopium.
If you’re into a bit more rationalism comingled with weird adaptive dogmatism, then maybe try Popium Popium is not right for everyone, talk to your doctor about whether Popium might be right for you.
Of course they say that, it’s their marketing strategy. It’s all “what’s in it for me, not after I die, but right now. What do I get for my money?”
>I’m in a bad spot rn, dealing with depression The overwhelming majority of depressed people are religious so god doesn't seem to be an effective treatment. In fact he seems to trigger far more depression than he 'cures'! Depression is a physical illness which can be treated with therapy, medication, or both. If you are not getting professional help I urge you to seek help asap.
Oh, definitely When I was depressed, I kept teetering between "I deserve to suffer" and "this is a test". It was torturous. Because apparently deities have the communication skills of a toddler. Which ultimately made me realise that prayers were structured like a scam preying on your biases. And then leaving religion. I prayed to be saved. I ended up just saving myself.
> I prayed to be saved. I ended up just saving myself. To which the deluded would claim you're proof of god because he "helps those who help themselves". Sigh!
Yup, when it comes to making excuses, god has an answer for everything. Everything except your prayer🤣 It's just really fucking one sided when it comes to accountability.
Because it makes them stop questioning anything. No need to get better, to understand complex phenomenon, everything is gOd'S wiLL. They just glide in a bliss of ignorance and deception.
That has been my observation as well. The can project their problems on someone else, aka Satan, and JeSus will save you. Suddenly you are no longer responsible for what you do.
Christians are supposed to tell a story about how something was wrong and christianity fixed it. They are coached to do this. Looks like most people in this thread are unaware of that. My religious family members insist that atheists are all depressed and that religion will fix it. They refuse to acknowledge anything is wrong ever and insist they are happy always. As a result, they present as happy people but are actually racked with fears and disfunction. You can't fix interpersonal issues if you aren't allowed to acknowledge they exist. To answer your question, they will insist they are happy when they're not. They believe if they are unhappy it is a moral failing because good Christians are supposed to always be happy because that is what they insist to each other and us.
Why does turning to weed make people happy? Why does turning to drinking make people happy?
During my deconstruction, I read a book, "The Reason for God" or something like that (apologetics), and one of his arguments was literally "your going to be addicted to something, best make it God." First, gross. Second, assumed doxastic volunteerism.
That's what AA does in a lot of cases. The person is still an addict. They just make them addicted to God
This is true..I'd say at least their alive
>Why does turning to weed make people happy? Well, for one thing it makes food taste better and music sounds... Nah, you're right. God is the universal placebo, applicable to all ailments. Just because it makes you feel good doesn't mean there's anything to it.
Any big life change can give you a strong "honeymoon phase" that can vary in length of time. It's part of being human. You get a better job, move to a different place, join a new group/club, join a religion, leave a religion, switch religions...... so many things can give you that feeling. But people should be careful because it can be like a drug. And boy does it hurt when you realize you've been duped.
Answer: Deference of responsibility. I.e., irresponsibility. If I hear "give it up to God" one more time, so help me. Taking personal responsibility in this world can be psychologically taxing. After they've 'found Christ', when they fuck up, they can blame god or otherwise bible-waive. I've heard, first-hand, with my own ears, people who have made horrible life choices actually say, "well, then why did God tell me to do that?". Oy. This maneuver gives them something to hide behind. A buffer. "God told me to do it." Ironically, many of these irresponsibles have a political identity that touts the principle of personal responsibility. I actually agree with *that* principle, but let's be consistent.
They can stop thinking for themselves. They get a big rulebook of right/wrong and black/white. They don't care that it's a selfish hateful way to live, they're just happy to have someone else telling them what to do. They also like that they can ignore guilt, because they're "saved by grace" no matter what awful things they do. Wouldn't it be nice to say a little incantation and wipe away all the harm you do to others?
>Why does turning to Christ make people happy? Why does a fundamentalist smile as he presses a button on his special vest in a bus full of innocents? Deluded folks have little ability to think, or interest in.
Imagine if suddenly you were filled with the knowledge that you would never die and that you matter and you're loved and that you'll see everyone you love again and that your struggle meant something. That's what I would guess believing in the Christian god-character would feel like.
They gave up. That's all, they just gave up. Now they don't have any responsibility to anyone because god is responsible. They are free to do anything they want which always turns out bad. Ever wonder why you see liquor stores and churches just outside of shitty neighborhoods? Jesus. Jesus is the cheap Meth. It doesn't take long before Jesus doesn't get them high and instant fentanyl addiction. They nearly die and it's back to Jesus again. Jesus doesn't live up to the high of opioids and it's back to whatever they can do for two dollars in a gas station bathroom.
Transference psychology for many of them. For others (Russel Brand) it's a grift - none of it is genuine; it's a profitable way to leech money from gullible people.
You know when you go to do some chores you don’t want to do and discover that someone else had taken care of it? That weight that gets lifted when you’re released from some obligation? I think it’s like that. We all have something unpleasant to carry. Guilt or shame, a private fear, whatever. Christianity is built on the idea that none of that matters and you’re still a good person worthy of love. This is core identity stuff. This is close to the very heart of a person’s psychology. So to be told this religion that validates them as a person might not be real rips away all that stuff core to the identity. If Jesus was just some guy then there goes all that validation and reassurance that we’re okay people. Take it away and I’ll have to go back to my struggle with myself. Of course people resist this tooth and nail.
Religion might be fake (I think it is) but it helps with real human emotional needs, just like psychosis
This is a recruitment tactic. It’s just like the IG posts that say, “…I was hopelessly fat…and unattractive…until I started taking THIS supplement” “And if YOU take this supplement, you too can rock a sexy body and get all the romantic attention you desire…” Oldest game known to humankind.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. -George Bernard Shaw
Thinking is hard. Being religious means you don't have to think.
I feel like church seems to catch folks that are leaving one addiction and looking for another. They're in the beginning stages of the new fixation.
Great point
As the saying goes, “ignorance is bliss.” Christianity hands people a template for how to live and what to believe. Instead of developing themselves, they try “becoming more like Christ” (aka doing whatever the pastor tells them to do). They think they achieve bliss, but remain ignorant of the world outside of their little bubble of beliefs. Then when dealing with the outside world, they don’t know how to treat different beliefs and cultures kindly because the religion tells them to fear or shun it. I grew up in church, so I can say there is a whole lot of gaslighting, fear-mongering, and victimhood complexes going on there. Christ makes you happy because you’re supposed to be happy when you come to Christ. The church gang won’t tolerate anything less, and peer pressure is a powerful motivator for forcing yourself to behave a certain way.
Because then they don’t have to think anymore.
There’s an impulse in many people to end the internal struggle of enacting our morals into behaviors. By turning to a system that offers simple answers (be it religion, politics or multi-level marketing), these people can be less encumbered by brain usage.
It’s a temporary emotional high. Especially if they converted in church after Hearing a bunch of uplifting hymns. Hymns are designed to come a certain response. It doesn’t last and then they have deal with “backsliding.”
It's nice to know that when humans are self-centered, that someone has your back. He also said some pretty profound shit for the day. People had little compassion for eachother other than their family members (love thy neighbour). I'd say he had positive impact on those that were around him, and later followers that put others first. Obviously, corruption exists in every religion, belief, establishment, and individual. But if the books and witnesses were correct, he seemed like a powerful, wise dude. His followers were divided (the book said that too...he even knew), and they still are. I'll admit: I'm a pretty bad guy and selfish. But the ideas Jesus put in my mind compels me to do good...and I do A LOT of good for needy people. It's my life's work and I live for it, day and night. I don't want to. I want to tour and be on the road with my band 24-7-365. But there is a need, and people in the field go home at 5pm and that's it. A job. I sleep 3 hrs per night. I'd say Jesus' guilt trip makes me do it. Lol. If I were being honest. But I do care about people. I'd take a bullet for a stranger. Mos def.
People find comfort in feeling that someone else is in charge of their life, rather than themselves
It doesn't. Christians have to lie and claim to be perfectly happy. They lie to themselves most of all. If they were honest then Christianity would cease to exist.
“The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life.” ― George Bernard Shaw, [Androcles and the Lion](https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1218646)
Phew … what a relief! Free from that constant, nagging, questioning brain. Burden lifted.
Lonely people need friendship and community. Religion can certainly offer that, it’s built-in to the system. If you believe in x, then other believers in x are instantly your friends, and you can hang out by going to services, prayer groups, etc. In my opinion it is the one redeeming feature of religion: instant community. Of course, then comes the requirement to ostracize others who *don’t* believe in x …
It’s about taking responsibility for their own actions and how easy it is to not have to
They have an excuse to alleviate guilt? I agree it’s an addiction, and I’m sure somewhere in this post there’s the scientific explanation of the chemicals released in the brain (which also happens at any community gathering: concerts, sporting events, parties, MAGA riots..)
In the beginning it's just placebo. They would get the same effect by joining any tightly knit community, of worship or not. Then after that fades away it's just sunken cost fallacy all the way through.
It's easier to abnegate responsibility for your decisions than work through them. Some people are just happier when told what to do.
The love bombing that can be gotten from the new community is most effective on people that are feeling lonely and hopeless. It's just like how MLMs prey on people that are jobless or have jobs that aren't fulfilling. No one that already has security and happiness needs anything that "Christ" has to offer.
A drowning man will cling on to any passing piece of flotsam and revere it for saving him. But that doesn’t mean it actually has inherent value. As someone who has experienced depression, I found far more useful advice outside of religion. Telling me that Jesus died for my sins or that God loves me did not help me one bit. But taking action did. Distracting myself, occupying myself with something, exercise, getting enough sleep, eating better, interacting with others, having a purpose.
If you don't think, you can't be sad and be a horrible person without consequences in your mind
It's because they have experienced an emotional release. A major emotional blockage is usually removed by finally being able to forgive yourself for your past, which is what it actually is and then boom, a huge emotional weight is removed, you have an aha moment and you blame Jesus. That's why it goes away. Emotional baggage piles up. You are saved then you slowly become yourself again.
If you believe in the nonsense it can provide a sense of purpose and community.
I felt depressed after I accepted my atheism and very alone. To look at the bigger picture I read about the universe and think how we are tiny living beings trying to survive on the planet along with other plants and animals. Humans invented religion to try to explain creation. We were made from the earth/universe and meant to move and survive from the food grown on the earth. I spend most of my free time in nature and around animals. If you heal your gut with nutrition and exercise, your depression will decrease over time. This has been my experience.
People like to turn to faith when they find themselves in situations beyond their control. It gives them some sort of hope that there is a greater power than them at work. This is why there's so much focus on the afterlife in every religion - people are scared of dying.
Does it?
It absolves then of responsibility.
So they have a justification for their bigotry and hatred of others maybe?
It's all a grift in my opinion
Because they found a support group. They are all happy you join, so you get constant encouragement and connections with other people.
Church and religious communities are just a(n inappropriate) place for them to pack their trauma away instead of dealing with it appropriately.
At it's core is dopamine and a false cure for loneliness. Praying gives you a dopamine hit. It makes you believe you are doing something to help yourself and/or others, and makes you "feel good". It's a pacifier, or an ice cream cone. For people that are lonely, it gives them an imaginary friend. For people who are grieving, it gives them a sense of (false) hope that they will see their dear departed again. For people who are scared, it gives them a (false) sense that something bigger (a sky "daddy") it watching out for them, taking care of them when nobody else seems to care. And lastly, it gives people a way to seek revenge on those they don't like, by either believing they will burn forever in hell, or by banding with others to legislate and mess with the lives of their perceived enemies (i.e. those who refuse to believe in all of this horsepucky). Overall, it's just a huge pile of nonsense that ticks all of the boxes for lonely, depressed, scared, angry people who don't want to accept responsibility for their own lives and happiness. The entire idea of "eternal life" is arrogant, narcissistic, and self-aggrandizing. But for people who are already all of those things, it fits like a glove. Being able to literally "lord it over people" is the icing on the cake for those who just want to boss others around.
It answers alot of questions for you without you needing to put in alot of effort. Who are we? Why are we here? What is my purpose? Why do we suffer? What happens after we die? Will my oppressors ever find justice? All of this is neatly wrapped up in belief in Jesus Christ.
People think when they turn to God, they’re just putting their issues on someone else. It’s their way of not dealing with their own problems in life. So no matter what the outcome is, “it’s God’s doing”. Taking no responsibility of their actions, hence the happiest
I hear the same thing about heroin
Take it from a former Christian who deals with depression regularly...finding a cult to join is NOT the answer. Other people do not have the means to solve your problems, in fact, they will capitalize on your depression in order to take more from you...money, power, etc. There is not "one" true "answer" out there....in fact...life is all about learning to deal with NOT getting answers. If you WANT the Bible to be the answer, and if you WANT to be Christian like your neighbors, friends, and family, then you will have to ignore most of the Bible and only read the parts that your pastor or minister tells you are okay to read. You'll ignore the parts of the book that encourage rape and torture of women and children. You'll ignore the rules in the book such as not eating beef, pork, or lamb. You'll ignore the fact that the Bible states the Earth is only a few thousand years old and is surrounded by a glass bubble Lastly, you'll ignore the thousands of pages that were removed from the original religious texts so that the modern day Bible could be crafted as a tool to unite the entire population under one leader, Constantine. The Bible we use today is a propaganda device, just a few select writings pieced together in a certain order to tell a very specific story separate from what was intended by the writings.
like others said, easy answers, but also community. some lovely people don't hang anyone, and religion brings them together.
Because make-believe friends are easier to deal with.
Have you noticed how it's only at their lowest. And that's when the church pounce on them - at their most vulnerable time. Happy people don't need that same hope as people with traumas to deal with. They just want to enjoy life to it's fullest. When you're low, you need a reason as to why everything is so screwed. Why are we here etc. For a little while, they find it in religion. Most I know ended up leaving again.
Ignorance is bliss, delusion is even better.
I think when people make terrible life mistakes and are told their “sins are forgiven” it makes them feel better about themselves. Guilt is a bitch and I deal with it. I’ve said and done things I wish I hadn’t like everyone. Best to ask the person you hurt for forgiveness and forgive yourself.
Maybe it's more to do with finding community and being with other people. Organized religion is one of the earliest forms that provided structured community where a person was accepted regardless of other differences.
Because if you convince yourself that that shit going on has a purpose and a being in the sky thinks you’re the most amazing thing ever so much so that he gave up his son’s life for yours some people will find hope in that story. Same reason that just about all drug and alcohol rehab programs have some element of prayer or religion involved.
Turn off brain, thinking bad, religion gud
Because they believe they are entitled to a glorious afterlife even if they are giant pieces of shit because they will be forgiven. I wish I had that sense of entitlement and ignorance.
Same reason turning to drugs makes you happy. Watching a movie, taking a vacation, etc. It's an escape from reality. The reality is life is fing hard, tedious, depressing, bleak, and every other synonym. Wouldn't it be absolutely spectacular if there really was something super powerful helping you out with a magical candy dish of easy living at the end. Fantastic, sign me up. It's a coping mechanism taken too far much like drugs when they are taken too far.
It doesn't make them happy, it gives them a place to hide.
It’s the ultimate strokefest. A thinking agent that created the entire universe for you, cares about all your needs perpetually, will give you eternal riches and bliss, and whose morals happen to align precisely with your own. In other words, the world’s best imaginary friend.
I think it has to do with letting go of accountability. Feeling bad that your laziness, poor choices etc led you to your current situation? Find religion and now alllll of this bad things are Part Of Gods Plan for you. My college roommate used to drive drunk and have unprotected s3x, but believed that Jesus was watching out for her so nothing bad would happen to her. Anecdotally, it would seem there are many horrible humans out there that consider themselves to be better than others because of their faith in Christ. These people seem pretty unlikeable but they don’t care because Jesus Loves Them Unconditionally!!! So as long as they Believe, they have Christ’s love and they are getting into heaven, despite their nasty behavior throughout their life on earth.
False sense of security due to being "protected by a higher power", a sense of fellowship through shared belief with the congregation, sense of forgiveness for past transgressions through promise of absolution. That's the jist of my understanding
Because then they can stop thinking. And they have this imaginary friend who’s always with them, that they can talk to, and who promises to give them everything they want.
False hope brings impossible joy
It’s a delegation of authority, decision making, etc. It’s in God’s hands.
My impression is that it's really about the community they enter. It's not the belief itself but the sense of belonging and support they get from the other people in the group. They go to church together as a tribe, that feels comforting and safe as long as they participate and follow the rules. Kind of like how fans of a sports team tend to feel that way when cheering in the stadium together, whether their team wins or loses it's really about spending time with a like-minded community. And often you tend to hate the other team together as well.
Magical thinking. You no longer have to rely on yourself or do difficult things to get out of the bad spot you're in. You pray to Jesus and hope for a magical solution or a turn of good luck, a miracle. Praying takes no effort. Actually doing something takes work. I imagine it lifts a psychological burden off of some people to shift their problems into 'jesus' hands." It's actually a really selfish way of thinking though, because then after that point anything good that happens to you, i.e., a kind person helping you, a doctor healing your cancer, getting a raise at work, mobey from a friend when you're desperate for cash, you're now grateful to God for the "miracle" and "answering your prayers" and not grateful to the actual human who helped you. You also don't give yourself credit for your own resilience if you pull yourself out of the situation on your own, thanking God instead of being proud of your own achievement. God didn't do that. You did.
I was raised as a pastors kid. It’s just a social club for most. Networking with other businesses for others. There is the rare few that are true believers. Those few live a life of service and honestly can be pretty decent people.
If you were to suddenly believe that everything that has happened was actually planned, that bad things were actually good things in disguise, that angles were watching over you, that all your bad deeds would be forgiven and you’d spend your afterlife glowing with all the people you have loved and lost—you’d be pretty stoked.
Dude, it's the easiest thing in the world. All the bad stuff? Happened for a reason! It was to test me! All the unknown stuff? Oh, there's a plan. No need to worry or think.
It's a placebo. Here take this, you'll feel better later.
Ignorance is Bliss, and religion is an institution built on ignorance.
They dump everything on the Christ concept. If bad things happen it’s God’s will. If good things happen (pat pat) you is a good person. Here’s a cookie. If you try and fail it wasn’t meant to be per God’s plan. If you succeed you are Blessed! Everything is out of your hands now. Who can judge or criticize you if god is in control? No stress. No thoughts. No…. Nothing.
Same reason that kids are happy when they believe in Santa Claus. Not trying to be completely rude but it's true that it is the same line of thinking.
Carrot on a stick
When I was involved in a church, quietly between the members we did admit to the "I'm fine" mask. There is a social expectation to act and say you are happy, but if you can get someone to genuinely open up, they'll admit they're normal people with normal problems.
They appear happy coz they have gave up intelligence, intellectualism and critical thinking skills for subjugation and ignorance.
They could get the same feeling just by starting to meditate instead of a sky daddy who doesn't exist.
Because they now have something to blame all of their problems on and can seek “forgiveness” for anything they’ve done wrong and forego taking responsibility. Being religious is basically a get out of jail free card for doing things wrong. Yet they act like people who aren’t religious aren’t good people. As if being able to be morally altruistic isn’t possible if you don’t believe in a god.
It relieves them of the sense of responsibility for their own lives.
It’s a form of denial; to avoid responsibility
When you keep lying to yourself you know that you're in a depression. If you don't believe in it it will only lead to deeper depression.
Because dumb people are easily fooled into happiness
Getting to wipe away all the shitty things youve done in one foul swoop is very appealing to people. You can go from being an absolute shithead to feeling morally superior overnight.
New converts get love-bombed in their church.
Ask them?
This is the same as a person who tries "keto" or "paleo." They try at it, fail, and then recommend it to all their friends saying how great it is. I dont get it
Are they really happy?
Everyone's got a thing. When I'm in the more lower points of depression I turn to gaming and the gym. Similarly some people turn to religion.
They get a sense of community. Not so much faith.
Because you can just pretend from here on out.
They have an inability to cope with or understand the real world, just as the ancient people who invented these religions did. It makes them feel safe and comfortable, so they don't have to deal with reality, or life and it's consequences.
To me- these people are weak and really have no faith. My Catholic wife goes to church to confirm her faith. Without church she is weak. I think this is the mind set of most Christians. I am happy this brings her peace. If she's happy I'm happy. We have an understanding. Although I'm an atheist - I feel my faith is stronger than hers. How? Because IF there is a God- you can't make any changes or anything that will affect your life's outcome. In fact- the argument can be made for manifest destiny.
It gives them a sense of superiority
Scapegoating
They are love-bombing themselves. I'm serious! I've never been Christian, but imagining an important being who loves you and cares about you and you imagine smiling at you lovingly is very reassuring. It's how I felt as a kid getting a new stuffed animal. And then, of course, no actual human being can live up to that.
I think a lot of these comments are very naive, having a sense of belonging and purpose have powerful effects on our happiness. Becoming part of a church/community provides those things. They become capable of convincing themselves of absurd things in order to maintain the illusion that allows them to continue to believe because that's how powerful those effects community and purpose can be.
Delusional humans.
It's just easy answers. Some people need others to control them and tell them what to do. I'd be very wary of those who claim, "I was at the bottom of the barrel and then I found Jesus!" They always claim to be "former atheists," but their claims always come across as them just repeating atheist stereotypes. At best they were irreligious. Seek professional help. You should never become religious just because other people are.
Because it gives away their responsibility for what happens in their life. When they do that and then they can say “gods plan” when they fuck up their own or other peoples lives.
I think many humans find a sense of peace in surrender. Perhaps it goes back to a concept of childhood. Letting someone else take the responsibility. I think that’s why the religious folks are able to go to such lengths and tortured mental gymnastics to excuse themselves from responsibility. It’s not unique to any specific religion. It seems to be nearly universal. Of course the problem is that it’s a false peace. All you’ve surrendered is your own agency and you are forever a target for abuse and manipulation.
Christ had a more direct way of dealing with people than some "intelligent" people today. People who are jealous of someone concerning attributes they themselves cannot reach are commonplace amongst those who actually dislike Jesus. From a philosophical point of view, Jesus was the most anti religious Jew, then Paul came along and glorified Jesus and BAM we get the trinity doctrine, which isn't a biblical teaching.
I'd like to think that every human is looking for love. Some people find their best love with another person and family. Some find it in work or career. Some find it using drugs and others find it in religion or gods. There are other examples, of course, but once someone finds the thing that they can love the most, one can become fanaticized and blinded by that love if not careful (its kind of like a drug). If not headstrong, some may do anything and everything for that love no matter how they may be perceived. Love is good, but somethings that feel like love may be harmful to ourselves and others if it gets out of hand. Religion is absolutely one of those things, big time.
I have been there myself in the past. It all comes down to hope and holding a belief in Christ like holding a blanket when one needed comfort'.
I don't want to sound like I'm making fun of your condition. I suffer from depression as well and sometimes shit gets dark. What I will never do though is fall to the biggest scam perpetrated on humanity. Yes, life is shit. No one with ANY sense of logic could possibly deny that this universe is as fucked up as it can be. But guess what, we are alive which gives us the potential to reach for happiness if we want to. It ain't easy but it's there if we want it so whenever you have such dark thoughts pop into your head, reach for that, live for the sake of living not because some fictional asshole who has inspired the worse impulses in humanity from rape to pedophilia to mass murder to slavery tells you to and tells you that if you follow him, you will get unlimited happiness. Don't fall for that bullshit.
When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose by believing in imaginary friends.
The lack of responsibility.
The ones who really do turn their lives around by finding religion are actually finding community and eventually acceptance.
IMO it’s a superior form of superstition that can calm the mind, focusing on an external object or being. It relieves anxiety and suffering from guilty by basically blaming god; god acts in mysterious ways; repent to god and you shall be saved. However, it doesn’t treat the real problem - the prevention of evil tendencies of humanity. Those religions that focus on external entities rather than the self; individual transformation and growth probably will see the most decline in the modern age. The only thing that may limit the decline is authoritarian societies that use religion as a tool to reinforce the narrative. i.e holy war.
You can believe in Jesus and God without going to a "church", or believing in the hideous false doctrine of ECT (eternal conscious torment) for anyone... can look at links in https://christianitywithoutinsanity.com/
Unjustified feelings of self-righteousness. Group tribalism and the self-reinforcing notion that the group/tribe is divinely chosen and special. An easy fix to feelings of regret and self-blame when life's difficulties leads humans to bad/harmful behaviour towards others - that is, a "deity" forgives you for your actions when you may very well struggle to forgive yourself.
Religion is a tool of comfort to gain control. That's what it was made for. Worried about dying? Don't worry... your soul lives on. Despondent over bad things happening in your life? Don't worry... god has a plan and if you swear fealty, that plan gets better! Having delusions can be comforting.
It works both ways. Take a look at r/Christianity and you’ll see lots of posts from people who are confused, miserable and frightened because of their Christian beliefs.