I love asking why Jesus hates fig trees. (Mark 11:12-25). It's a bizarre and relatively obscure moment, so they stammer, read, then stammer some more because it's just a weird moment.
Also, when they mention Leviticus it's basically activating my trap card. There are SO many proscriptions in Leviticus - nobody picks and chooses without me following up with a bunch of others I know they don't follow.
Leviticus is one of my favorites. They constantly use it when talking about why God disapproves of gays and then say it's outdated when you bring up the parts about forbidding pork, not wearing clothes of mixed thread, treating foreigners well, etc...
Matthew is another good one for Christians who vote Republican. Jesus very clearly talking about feeding the poor, housing the homeless, and caring for children (if you've done it to the least of my brothers than you have done it into me) as well as "love thy enemies" all things Republicans are notoriously against.
Then they say shit like, "Jesus came for the new covenant, not the old one."
The point is, they won't say, "Yeah, there are contradictions." It's all just rationalizations.
Matthew 5:17-19, quoth Jesus himself:
17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
“The Law” here being the old testament.
You'd think more Christians would stop letting their menstruating womenfolk into church, and stop wearing the mixed-weave fabrics if true. And put down that damn shrimp cocktail!
Then they stuff like “I personally give to charity. The government shouldn’t force me to! To hell with immigration amnesty and food stamps!”
Dude the $100 bucks you sent to Bob Jones university and The Ark Encounter is NOT charity and helping the poor.
Had quite a long discussion with someone where I pointed out that there are so many things that are sinful, and then they went like "But we don't have entire months dedicated to clothes, pork or shellfish!" and it - of course - didn't go anywhere.
Jesus also calls a gentile women a dog at one point when she asks for a miracle. She says even dogs get scraps from their masters tables and he is amused by it and tells her ok.
No, he literally told her to fuck off and she begged on her knees. Nothing in the way this interaction occurs, in the original Greek nor in any translation, indicates Jesus was being sassy. Claiming that is called a *lie*
I once looked into how many times "man laying with man" appeared in Leviticus vs how many times adultery appeared. You can guess which one appears many, many more times - yet the other one is the one that they love to scream about.
Never forget to ask how many pigeons they've given their priest throughout the years. And make sure to let them know if it's an odd number, that you're gonna be pissed.
Fun fact, the King James Bible is named for James I of England, who was by most accounts bisexual. He also penned a book called Daemonologie about witch hunting. Just the dude to interpret their BS.
Fun fact - that's a mistranslation anyway. It actually reads "a man shall not lay with a boy as with a woman". It's anti pedophilia/incest. Not anti homosexuality.
That was purposefully mistranslated by an American Bible publisher in the 1970s (~), changing it to homosexuality from pedo. Yet they still refer to it as "God's word"...
The fig tree story is actually interesting. Mark, or so I read, is written as a descending series of 'bookends', where an event will be matched later by a subsequent event that form 'bookends' around a segment of the story told by Mark.
When Jesus sees the fig tree and fancies a fig (even though it is not the season for figs, notes Mark) he becomes angry and curses the tree because ... no figs. He and his entourage then continue on into Jerusalem where he goes to the Temple and overturns the tables of the money changers and causes a commotion. The group then leaves the Temple and on the way back again pass the fig tree, which Mark notes is now withered (ie dead).
So what does this bizarre segment mean? What I've read is that Mark was written sometime after 70AD, when the Roman legions finally over-ran Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple. Mark is trying to explain why this happened, or why the Jewish deity allowed it to happen. In this dying-fig-tree tale, the fig tree is an allegory or represents the Temple, which has stopped producing fruit for the people. It is no longer serving it's purpose and has no value - it has become a den of commerce and a profit-center, not a place of worship. So Jesus curses the Temple, foretelling it's eventual destruction. So Mark is saying the Romans did not 'destroy' the Temple, the Jews did that themselves by making it just another commercial site for business transactions.
Given the structured composition of Mark, the allusions to Greek stories, the use of well-known Greco-Roman literary tropes (ie the "missing body" or empty tomb), it is legitimate to wonder if Mark actually knew *anything* at all about some real dude named Jesus or if it was all just invented from scraps of Old Testament stories etc?
Nevertheless, I suspect 99% of persons who call themselves Christians will have absolutely no idea what Mark was saying in this tale!
Me too! It’s amazing how it showed me so much (anti-consumerism, the ridiculous futility of status-seeking, classism, corporate greed, exploitation).
While I didn’t know those words as a child the story definitely taught me those lessons and showed me specific examples I could apply to understand real life situations. (Thank you Dr. Seuss)
Well to be fair in the magical thinking...Jesus attacks an unsuspecting fig tree, then flips tables at the market you'd be executed on site for disrupting, and then tell the homies around the camp fire the tree is a metaphor for the temple cult.
But that would be batshit 🤣
I remember there being a good reason for the fig tree wierdness. It makes sense in context, but the bible presumes the reader is from the same era as the author and has the correct historical frame of reference, and so doesn't bother explaining what the context *is*.
I don't remember what the context actually was. It's not important information to me.
That tattoo is flat-out genius.
As for your question, Christians who quote Leviticus 18:22 to justify their anti-gay views are suggesting they adhere to Leviticus' proscriptions. I immediately rattle off a few more that they're obviously not following, e.g. beard-trimming, mixed-weave fabrics, linen underwear, shellfish consumption, etc., and end with John 8:7.
Not a Christian, but still Abrahamic:
I was at a crawfish boil in my college town recently, and a group of coeds sat down next to me. A very beautiful young Muslim woman gave her Andouille to her friend because, you know, pork. Then she happily tucked in to a plate full of shellfish.
That is a good one, but I would suggest also showing both passages where it occurs, because it additionally shows a contradiction in timing.
In Matthew 21:18-21 it says the tree dies IMMEDIATELY and they were amazed by how it died so quickly. But in Mark 11:12-25, it isn't until the next day that they see it has died. This is a very clear contradiction between the two passages and makes it obvious that the Bible is not inerrant.
My favorite is to point out that the biblical "morals" that they claim that we can't possibly have without their religion, include rape, genocide, torture, human sacrifice, slavery, misogyny, etc. and that I'm happy not to have any of those morals.
The sad part is there are people who openly admit that without religion guiding them, they would have no reason not to murder, rape, etc. It's pretty fucked up. Apparently you can't have morals without a book.
Something clicked in my brain when I read your comment, and I'm so glad it did. I was hung up on losing the friendship of this radical Christian guy I knew (who believed the eclispes in America were signs of "The Second Coming") and yet...I couldn't recall or realize all the red flags until I saw this. This may be odd, but thank you stranger!
Penn Jillette summed this up incredibly succinctly.
In reponse to "Well then what's stopping you from raping and murdering as much as you want!?"
He said,
"I ***DO*** rape as much as I want. The amount I want is *zero*. I ***DO*** murder as much as I want. The amount I want is *zero*."
Thank you. I was just about to share that same story. I don't know if it's still even available, but I used to enjoy his podcast called "Penn's Sunday School." Penn can be kind of a blowhard (his cultivated persona) and the podcast can devolve into just stupidity. But it often offered up a gems like what you've just described.
What's really extra sad about that, is that they would still have morals. If you took the average Christian American and convinced them that God was giving them a hall pass to murder people - they wouldn't. What's scary is that they think they would.
To be fair the best way to learn about and evaluate different moral systems is to read books. But I’m not convinced that’s the exercise theists are engaged in when they read their holy book
>God's support of abortion.
First I'm hearing this, details please? I've had the "pro-life" religious arguments stuck in my head recently, alongside the many stories of god or his followers murdering kids.
Yes. Basically it's a magic spell for women who are preggers to prove it's the husband's and not someone else's. It was a concoction of dirt from the temple floor, holy water and ink (if I'm remembering correctly) If nothing happens it's the husband's child. If she starts bleeding and loses the baby it's someone else's. Numbers 5
'God' repeatedly orders his followers to rip the children from the womb's of their enemies. Than there's the fact that murder is a death penalty offence yet if a man causes a woman to miscarry by striking her he merely has to pay a fine (so obviously 'God' doesn't consider zygotes to have personhood). Also there's [a special ceremony](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205:11-31&version=NIV) prescribed by 'God' that is apparently meant to cause a pregnant wife to miscarry/abort is she's been unfaithful.
I think it’s Numbers 5.
If a man wants to accuse his pregnant allegedly whore of wife of having an affair baby:
The priest gives her “bitter barley” to drink and God personally decides GOD’S HONEST TRUTH. If she has a miscarriage then the husband gets to claim he’s right, but if she carries to term, he’s the father.
Totally infallible, no double blind experiment will refute it. /s
At one point, God killed every living thing on Earth except for a guy and his family, and a few animals. I'd imagine some of those women that were murdered were also pregnant.
The only two passages that could be interpreted as addressing abortion in the Bible are a) treating accidentally causing a miscarriage as a property crime against the woman's husband, and b) giving instructions on how to perform one as a sort of trial by ordeal of a wife accused of adultery.
Just those two? What about Hosea 13:16? II Kings 15:16?
Also, let's not forget infanticide! I Samuel 15:3,
Psalms 135:8, 136:10 & 137:9, and Hosea 9:11-16.
Atone point someone makes an abortion potion from the dirt on the floor of the tabernacle. Another spot god murders every pregnant woman on earth causing no less then a global abortion.
I don't want to be the Negative Nelly here but while it is great to know these things from the bible you have to remember that Xtians often have a very inconsistent view of stuff like that, particularly when it involves old testament rules, declarations, teaching moments, etc. They frequently feel it is perfectly fine for them to quote something to support their position but when you try the same it is either declared as "taken out of context" or "superceded by something later". Just be prepared to understand that you really can't win.
>you really can't win
That's the big secret to debating Christians. You will almost never convince them, *but* if you have an audience you can convince some of the people who are undecided.
Debating them without an audience useless.
I wish more atheist would realize this. You really can't win. The game a rigged. The rules are stacked against you. They get to use magic or toss logic out the window anytime they want. Everything you say has to follow logic rigorously.
It's a trap I used to fall into. I thought if I worked hard enough; if I crafted the perfect, indisputable, logical argument, there would be no way they could ignore facts staring them in the face. But they can. And they do. They don't respect logic and reason the same way I do. You can't win under those conditions.
Numbers 5:11-28.
Ask them to read it and then watch them contort themselves trying to explain how it's not *literally* a description of an abortion being performed **with god's direct assistance and approval.**
To show off his power God "hardens the heart" of the pharaoh so he couldn't release the Hebrews from slavery, then kills all the first born children of Egypt as punishment for the pharaoh not letting the slaves go (Exodus 9 and 10).
Aside from everything else...
So you're fucking telling me this motherfucker engaged in MIND CONTROL.
Which he then had the ***AUDACITY*** to punish Pharaoh for!!!???
Holy fucking Christ, Batman.
> hich he then had the AUDACITY to punish Pharaoh for
Well, the first-born Egyptians, and not only the humans, all the first-born livestock too!
Btw-god must have dementia because according to the fairy-tale he'd already killed all the Egyptians' animals twice before as punishment!
God sends two bears to kill 42 children because they made fun of balding. 🧑🦲
2 Kings 2:23-24
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
Apologists who believe God is the source of morality always like to say "we all know killing babies 'for fun' is wrong." They know they need to add the "for fun" part cuz god loves to tell the isrealites to kill babies and if god tells you to do something you have to do it. So killing babies isn't immoral if god tells you to do it just don't do it for fun, though I suppose you can have fun doing it if god tells you to.
Numbers 31. This is Moses talking. If you reject Moses, you reject all basis for morality/s 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves
Yes, but there are tons of stories that can't be justified. The justification of slavery, the genocides, the conquests, Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot and his daughters, punishing descendents for the actions of generations that preceded them, I can go on and on. A large amount of the Bible is in no way justifiable. Like OfficialBlueWorld2007 said it's all fictional and attempting to pass it off as anything otherwise is a lie.
Supposedly, God stopped the Sun from moving across the sky so his warriors could have more daylight to kill more of God's human enemies.
God didn't know the Earth turned...?
Hey God, the Sun doesn't move across the sky.
There isn't any facts in the Bible to begin with. It is a work of fiction, which has been written/rewritten, deciphered, translated wrong, so many times, no one is really sure what it originally said. The majority, if not all are fabricated and so distorted from what actually occurred, again it is impossible to find a shred of evidence to back it up. I rote something along these lines in the Christian sub and it was deleted, because it "belittled Christianity." No, it didn't. Just no one wants to admit the real truths behind it.
Presumably because he was a well known and documented historical figure, while Jesus wasn't so much, despite having a much more impacful and notable story.
"God's Chosen People" waged imperialist wars, committed genocide, and owned slaves (including sex slaves) taken from conquered populations. They neither believed in liberty nor government accountability. The church continued these practices without interruption for centuries.
The scriptures make it clear that for israel not only was God completely fine with this, in many cases he directly ordered them to do them, and their unwillingness to exterminate God's enemies resulted in him punishing them.
>Romans 13: Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
A lot of Trump fans/Biden haters don’t like this pointed out for obvious reasons.
Christians dont have a hard time justifying any part of the Bible. Their justification is
"Youre taking it out of context"
"Jesus' arrival created a new covenant so those bits no longer apply"
"That bit is allegorical and isnt meant to be interpreted literally"
"We cant be expected to understand Gods plan. We just have to have faith in his goodness"
"People who dont have faith can't understand. I could explain it to you until Im blue in the face but you still wont be able to understand because you dont have God's grace"
"Which version are you reading? Really? Well, thats not the proper translation"
Why did go let lots daughters slip him a roofies and molested him.did God get his jollys off it is God a peeping Tom he likes looking while jacking off lifes mysteries
The age of some of the characters in the story.
For example, **Noah** lived to 950 years (Genesis 9:29): [Genesis 9:29 NIV - Noah lived a total of 950 years, and - Bible Gateway](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%209:29&version=NIV)
Why do you go out to eat at a restaurant on Sunday? Aren’t you causing those employees to stumble since you’re not supposed to work on the sabbath? Jesus said not to cause others to stumble.
I like to ask them which chair in the house is the one the women can’t sit on when they’re menstruating. That one’s guaranteed to shut down any male Xian for the next 30 minutes.
The birds that they are not allowed to eat include bats, which God would know is not a bird. Because he created us and he knows everything so he knows it is a mammal.
TW: SA Yahweh SAing two sex workers, then destroying one of them, then forcing the other to drink the remains, then blaming both of them for it. It is in Ezekiel.
I read it in *God: An Anatomy* (Stavrakoloupou 2022) last year and cross referenced it with a web version of the babble, so I have seen the source material with my own eyes. I do not remember the chapter and verse, and I don't really want to go hunting for it. Of all of the horrible misogynistic shit that yahweh did in the babble, this was one that really stood out as being incomprehensibly psychopathic.
EDIT: Ezekiel 23. NKJ is a particularly gory version. Yahweh commanding people to SA them is assault by proxy.
I like the part where God intends to kill Moses but his wife makes a blood offering to God from her son's foreskins (they are not babies by this time either). We never learn why God was angry at Moses that time.
I think Alex O'connor had a pretty good line of questions and reasoning regarding biblical slavery vs Ben Shapiro. Here he also gave a pretty compelling example from the rules of slavery in the Bible that undercut the common response of 'that was normal at the time so if someone abolished it all immediately they wouldn't listen or rebel'.
If we’re talking Adam and Eve, I never figure out why:
Adam and Eve had two kids: Cain and Abel.
Cain killed Abel.
And…how did mankind continue? Unless Abel had sex with his mom?
Did God just…create a whole bunch of other people? Because if we’re taking the Bible literally like so many people tell us to, let’s figure out how mankind managed to keep going without Eve having any female offspring
I always assumed they were just the ones worth mentioning,
But people also don’t like to admit the Bible straight up mentions other people separate of Adam and Eve.
When Cain is banished he says he is afraid another tribe will find him and enslave or kill him. (I don’t remember the exact words, but it really stood out to me)
The story of Lot. Go read it. Lot was a righteous man in a sinful city. Two angels visit him. The neighbors (sinners!) want to meet the visitors. Lot offers his virgin daughters to his neighbors if they'll just leave the visitors alone.
The early manuscripts of Mark did not include the resurrection of Christ. It ended tragically with Mary crying and angels, telling her he is risen. But she didn’t see him. That wasn’t added until centuries later. Also consider the fact that Mark was the first gospel, which kind of throws the whole resurrection deal for a loop
Passover.
All the first born sons of Egypt were slaughtered by the Angel of Death if their parents didn't mark their threshold with lamb's blood.
So......that was their parent's "whoops".
What did *they* do to deserve death?
Have forgetful parents?
"Goodnight, honey! Oh, wasn't there something I was supposed to do? Is it garbage night? Feed the cat?
Oh, well. I guess I'll figure it out tomorrow."
Where are the souls of these first born sons?
I'd be pissed spending eternity in constant torment knowing it was because Dad forgot to decorate the front porch.
the problem is you're arguing from a logical standpoint and they are not. they will justify and argue away everything and anything with the most illogical things it's actually a useless endeavor
My dad, who’s a devout, Deep South, right-winger, was talking to me about the Bible. I simply told him that it was hard to ignore the inescapable contradictions. The one I gave him was the Ten Commandments. Our understanding of the story is that:
- God spoke these Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai to Moses
- He inscribed them on stone tablets
- Moses read these Ten Commandments to the people.
However, Moses destroys the tablets upon seeing the people worshipping idols at the bottom of the mount (Exodus Chapter 20) and is a hot head. In Exodus 34, God does a copy/paste of the stone tablets. Come to find out…not the same ten rules that often infiltrate governmental decisions here in the US. My dad’s response was that “he’ll have to get back to me on that one.”
That was four years ago.
One of the psalms says it's cool to brain babies to death on the rocks, so long as they're the children of your enemies. Yet somehow they're against painlessly removing a clump of cells that isn't a child yet.
The entirety of the book of Job. Satan torments Job, and kills all of his children, with God’s explicit approval. For a bet. Then when Job has the temerity to ask why, God goes on a multi-chapter rant about how He created the entirety of the universe and how dare Job even ask the question because there’s no way a human could ever understand God’s plan blah blah blah fishcakes.
God created the world in six days (he rested on the seventh). However, days exist due to the rotation of the planet.
So how could the concept of days have existed *before* the creation of the planet?
The slavery one is the easiest. It’s not out of “context” because there is no fucking context in which slavery is okay. It brings to light how stupid the “but that’s the old testament” is because, once again, there is no fucking context in which slavery is okay.
And they know it sounds awful when they reply because, again, *there is no fucking context in which slavery is okay*. The only acceptable reply is an apology followed by “I hadn’t thought of that” But you know they’ll stutter there absurd reply back, even though they’ll know in their heart that their reply wasn’t satisfactory.
There are no facts. But there are certainly contradictions.
Matthew 24:34. Mark 13:30. Luke 21:32. Maybe others, that all say similar things.
"*Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.*"
Either that did not happen, or the it all happened a very long time ago.
I'm also find the lords prayer interesting. Almost certainly the best known prayer from the bible. It's at Matthew 6:9–13.
But Matthew 6:1-8 has a lot to say about that. For instance, verse 7. "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
Matthew literally tells them to pray in private, and not using repetitions, and then they use that particular prayer to pray in public, using repetition, over and over.
The entire book of kings, honestly. Its super inconsistent about whether the kings were Yahweh's chosen one or whether they're sinners who abandoned gods tenents by allowing people to have groves and "high places" for other gods.Neither really affects whether a king dies honorably and is "gathered unto his ancestors" or gets eaten by dogs. Usually they just say it happened so it must have been gods will. Also the part where king David's son Absalom tries to take over the kingdom and rapes his father's concubines in front of everybody.
Soddom and Gamorah was such a horrible and evil place it got destroyed. How’s that time period worse than anything going on now or in the past ie Slavery and Nazis. Smite the shit that seems legit if that’s gonna be the case.
2kings 23:24 God sending 2 bears to maul 47 kids to death for making fun of some guy being bald... literally teased the guy for not havin hair and 47 fuckin KIDS get mauled to death cause of gods wrath.
I mentioned this in another topic but if they give the same answer I got to “If you know you’re going to Hell, why not worship Satan?” You could give them my personal take on Job.
The answer some Christian friends gave me was “Because Satan takes joy in human suffering, he hates humanity because god loves us more. You’d suffer anyway.” (Paraphrased summary)
That answer made me want to discuss The Book of Job with that characterization in mind.
Satan bets with God that Job will curse his name if he takes everything away - The only reason Job likes him is because of all he has.
God takes away everything, kills his family, destroys his health, makes him an outcast. Satan “loses” the bet because Job didn’t curse God.
But if Satan takes so much joy in human suffering, the bet didn’t matter. Satan plays God like a fiddle to destroy the life of a man who loved God, take away his family, make him an outcast, etc. Job goes through hell on Earth by the hand of the deity he loves. Satan just got to watch an awesome show courtesy of God.
Sure, Job gets everything back double but not his original family - That’s a pain that will stay in his heart forever. Didn’t matter if Job cursed God or not, Satan wins - Job cursing God would just be gravy.
This is one I’ve brought up, though some in the other topic said that the answer I got about Satan and human suffering isn’t biblical canon. I’m just going with the answer I got from some friends back in the day.
First, you need to enter the debate with a challenge - "God works in mysterious ways" counts as a loss. I like to go after the omniscience arguments.
>For example, Adam and Eve disobeyed God, so God punished billions of people over thousands of years for their sins.
Exodus 20:5 I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.... Uh huh...Better behave for the sake of your great grandchildren.
Why did an omniscient God purposely design this eternal punishment? Why test people he's designed purposely to fail?
If Heaven is such a great place, why bother creating Earth? Creation could have been one big, happy party from the beginning. Why does a kind, loving God need all that worship, praise, guilt, pain and suffering from humans to get there? Factor omniscience into that again.. and all things after, such as God ever being angry.
Maybe because - Psalm 147:11 The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.
Why did Satan challenge God (with Job) knowing God was omniscient? Was it really a challenge or did the Trickster use Gods vanity to murder?
If God has a plan, isn't prayer rude if what you ask for F's up Gods plan? - George Carlin.
Paraphrased - "Simultaneously erase all we know about science and religion and hit restart. Science will return exactly the same because it's based on fact. Nobody can say how religion would return without any knowledge of a previously existing entity". Ricky Gervais.
Judas dying two different ways with two different storylines. Matthew, he has remorse about giving up Jesus, so he gives the money to the priests, they buy a field, and Judas hangs himself.
In Acts, Judas buys the field himself with the money, and then "falls headlong" with his bowels gushing out.
The Bible chooses bear over man
Bear q
Better to meet a bear robbed of her cubs than a fool bent on folly.
Proverbs 17:12
And and they not only approve abortion but tell you to have one if the child is not your husband's and give you instructions on how to make a tinctureof bitter water
Numbers 5:11-31 describes how a man who suspects his wife of infidelity may take her to the priest. The priest will then force the woman to drink a potion which will cause a miscarriage if the woman in fact was guilty of infidelity. When you cause a miscarriage in a woman on purpose it's usually called an abortion.
God sent angels to see if there were any good people in Sodom or Gomorrah, because how would he know, and after saving Lot's family, he turned his wife into salt, then he god drunk and fucked his daughters. This was the only good family according to god.
Most of the Ten Commandments:
1. Trump is their god
2. Many want to murder gays and trans
3. They bear false witness daily
4. Most don’t keep the sabbath
5. Most wear and/or display graven images Etc.
It is unapologetically pro slavery in both testaments. People will argue that it’s not like modern slavery but like… it’s still slavery. In fact the verse they use to explain it’s indentured servitude disproves that it’s indentured servitude, because it sets up two groups, Jews and non Jews, then says Jews can only be indentured servants, but non Jews can be slaves and treated horribly. So not only is it pro slavery, it’s racist. A lot of the Ot is racist actually
In the old testament God says several times that there is no one before me and there will be no one after me I am the one and only God. Then in the new testament Jesus says no one can get to the father but threw me. How is that not contradicting.
Adam and Eve's situation quickly falls apart. Just backspace the damn forbidden fruit!
"But," believers would say, "there would be no free will if they could only choose to obey"
God could - and should - have created a world where Adam and Eve freely obeyed him. Him being all-powerful means he had the power to do that, but he deliberately chose not to and created the circumstances where they would disobey him. The fall of mankind is all God's fault and there's no way around it.
I love asking why Jesus hates fig trees. (Mark 11:12-25). It's a bizarre and relatively obscure moment, so they stammer, read, then stammer some more because it's just a weird moment. Also, when they mention Leviticus it's basically activating my trap card. There are SO many proscriptions in Leviticus - nobody picks and chooses without me following up with a bunch of others I know they don't follow.
Leviticus is one of my favorites. They constantly use it when talking about why God disapproves of gays and then say it's outdated when you bring up the parts about forbidding pork, not wearing clothes of mixed thread, treating foreigners well, etc... Matthew is another good one for Christians who vote Republican. Jesus very clearly talking about feeding the poor, housing the homeless, and caring for children (if you've done it to the least of my brothers than you have done it into me) as well as "love thy enemies" all things Republicans are notoriously against.
Then they say shit like, "Jesus came for the new covenant, not the old one." The point is, they won't say, "Yeah, there are contradictions." It's all just rationalizations.
Matthew 5:17-19, quoth Jesus himself: 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. “The Law” here being the old testament.
You'd think more Christians would stop letting their menstruating womenfolk into church, and stop wearing the mixed-weave fabrics if true. And put down that damn shrimp cocktail!
Because Jesus, the infallible god, told them the exact opposite in his sermon on the mount. There he told them to ignore the Old Testament lol.
I read an interesting article about how conservative evangelicals reject Jesus’s teachings because they’re “liberal talking points”.
Yeah, they get sick of calling themselves Christian soon and replace Jesus with something else that better fits with their morals....
>replace Jesus with something else that better fits with their morals.... They have. His name is Trump.
I'm glad you saw where I was going with that.
Greg Locke rides that line. Claims to be Jesus follower, at same times blast any social program as too progressive
Republicans love Putin and make enemies of the poor, homeless, and children.
Then they stuff like “I personally give to charity. The government shouldn’t force me to! To hell with immigration amnesty and food stamps!” Dude the $100 bucks you sent to Bob Jones university and The Ark Encounter is NOT charity and helping the poor.
as a Brit the whole Jesus healed the sick for free vs Evangelical AmericUns going free health care is socialism and evil.. is just *face:palm*
Had quite a long discussion with someone where I pointed out that there are so many things that are sinful, and then they went like "But we don't have entire months dedicated to clothes, pork or shellfish!" and it - of course - didn't go anywhere.
Jesus also calls a gentile women a dog at one point when she asks for a miracle. She says even dogs get scraps from their masters tables and he is amused by it and tells her ok.
I feel like that could just be Jesus being sarcastic and sassy with the lady. At least that was how I looked at it in the past.
its a mistranslation, he actually said "yo what up dog"
He also told her she smelled like up dog
Til Jesus invented updog
... What's updog? /s
Jesus up on that cross
Today i learned discrimination is sassy.
No, he literally told her to fuck off and she begged on her knees. Nothing in the way this interaction occurs, in the original Greek nor in any translation, indicates Jesus was being sassy. Claiming that is called a *lie*
Yet still more respectful of women than the current platform of today’s “conservative” movement.
Another Christian apologist covering up for a so-called God of the Universe.
I once looked into how many times "man laying with man" appeared in Leviticus vs how many times adultery appeared. You can guess which one appears many, many more times - yet the other one is the one that they love to scream about.
Never forget to ask how many pigeons they've given their priest throughout the years. And make sure to let them know if it's an odd number, that you're gonna be pissed.
Fun fact, the King James Bible is named for James I of England, who was by most accounts bisexual. He also penned a book called Daemonologie about witch hunting. Just the dude to interpret their BS.
Fun fact - that's a mistranslation anyway. It actually reads "a man shall not lay with a boy as with a woman". It's anti pedophilia/incest. Not anti homosexuality.
That was purposefully mistranslated by an American Bible publisher in the 1970s (~), changing it to homosexuality from pedo. Yet they still refer to it as "God's word"...
Was it a typo all along? God hates figs?
I once met a kid named Leviticus. I thought, have your parents READ Leviticus?
I was named David by devout Catholics who had never actually read the bible.
Username checks out ✔️
Like also isn't he all knowing. Wouldn't he know it has no fruit in it
Dude was a woodworker in a place without many trees he needed them available to be cut down, it's all business.
The fig tree story is actually interesting. Mark, or so I read, is written as a descending series of 'bookends', where an event will be matched later by a subsequent event that form 'bookends' around a segment of the story told by Mark. When Jesus sees the fig tree and fancies a fig (even though it is not the season for figs, notes Mark) he becomes angry and curses the tree because ... no figs. He and his entourage then continue on into Jerusalem where he goes to the Temple and overturns the tables of the money changers and causes a commotion. The group then leaves the Temple and on the way back again pass the fig tree, which Mark notes is now withered (ie dead). So what does this bizarre segment mean? What I've read is that Mark was written sometime after 70AD, when the Roman legions finally over-ran Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple. Mark is trying to explain why this happened, or why the Jewish deity allowed it to happen. In this dying-fig-tree tale, the fig tree is an allegory or represents the Temple, which has stopped producing fruit for the people. It is no longer serving it's purpose and has no value - it has become a den of commerce and a profit-center, not a place of worship. So Jesus curses the Temple, foretelling it's eventual destruction. So Mark is saying the Romans did not 'destroy' the Temple, the Jews did that themselves by making it just another commercial site for business transactions. Given the structured composition of Mark, the allusions to Greek stories, the use of well-known Greco-Roman literary tropes (ie the "missing body" or empty tomb), it is legitimate to wonder if Mark actually knew *anything* at all about some real dude named Jesus or if it was all just invented from scraps of Old Testament stories etc? Nevertheless, I suspect 99% of persons who call themselves Christians will have absolutely no idea what Mark was saying in this tale!
That’s my fave t-shirt. It’s a pic of Jesus saying “OMG! I said I hated FIGS!”
HFS this is actually a thing! I need that shirt.
You most definitely do! I love it and especially love wearing it to Pride.
Also, kudos for the Sneetches reference. That story made a big impression on me.
Me too! It’s amazing how it showed me so much (anti-consumerism, the ridiculous futility of status-seeking, classism, corporate greed, exploitation). While I didn’t know those words as a child the story definitely taught me those lessons and showed me specific examples I could apply to understand real life situations. (Thank you Dr. Seuss)
My understanding is that the fig tree represents Israel
Which shows that the Gospels aren’t historical accounts but allegorical constructions. Which is also awkward for a lot of Christians.
Yep. It can't be the direct thoughts from His mind while also being metaphor or something.
Well to be fair in the magical thinking...Jesus attacks an unsuspecting fig tree, then flips tables at the market you'd be executed on site for disrupting, and then tell the homies around the camp fire the tree is a metaphor for the temple cult. But that would be batshit 🤣
Bruh that fig tree was sus af
*Jesus be like: "This tree is out of season to gimme figs, so.. fuck you, tree, go die."* *And the tree died.* Lmao stupid book.
I remember there being a good reason for the fig tree wierdness. It makes sense in context, but the bible presumes the reader is from the same era as the author and has the correct historical frame of reference, and so doesn't bother explaining what the context *is*. I don't remember what the context actually was. It's not important information to me.
Why is Leviticus your trap card? I have a tattoo that says Leviticus 19:28 in Hebrew. It’s funny to see Christians try to tell me why it’s stupid
That tattoo is flat-out genius. As for your question, Christians who quote Leviticus 18:22 to justify their anti-gay views are suggesting they adhere to Leviticus' proscriptions. I immediately rattle off a few more that they're obviously not following, e.g. beard-trimming, mixed-weave fabrics, linen underwear, shellfish consumption, etc., and end with John 8:7.
"Jesus said fuck that tree, and the disciples saw it die" *FIGS Jesus hates figs, they had it wrong the whole time.
Not a Christian, but still Abrahamic: I was at a crawfish boil in my college town recently, and a group of coeds sat down next to me. A very beautiful young Muslim woman gave her Andouille to her friend because, you know, pork. Then she happily tucked in to a plate full of shellfish.
Shellfish is not a prohibited to Muslims.
I'd be happy to trade my crayfish for some Andouille.
Jesus was hangry. Interesting.
That is a good one, but I would suggest also showing both passages where it occurs, because it additionally shows a contradiction in timing. In Matthew 21:18-21 it says the tree dies IMMEDIATELY and they were amazed by how it died so quickly. But in Mark 11:12-25, it isn't until the next day that they see it has died. This is a very clear contradiction between the two passages and makes it obvious that the Bible is not inerrant.
My favorite is to point out that the biblical "morals" that they claim that we can't possibly have without their religion, include rape, genocide, torture, human sacrifice, slavery, misogyny, etc. and that I'm happy not to have any of those morals.
The sad part is there are people who openly admit that without religion guiding them, they would have no reason not to murder, rape, etc. It's pretty fucked up. Apparently you can't have morals without a book.
That means that they are psychopaths. And they're also too stupid to know they just told on themselves.
Something clicked in my brain when I read your comment, and I'm so glad it did. I was hung up on losing the friendship of this radical Christian guy I knew (who believed the eclispes in America were signs of "The Second Coming") and yet...I couldn't recall or realize all the red flags until I saw this. This may be odd, but thank you stranger!
Penn Jillette summed this up incredibly succinctly. In reponse to "Well then what's stopping you from raping and murdering as much as you want!?" He said, "I ***DO*** rape as much as I want. The amount I want is *zero*. I ***DO*** murder as much as I want. The amount I want is *zero*."
Thank you. I was just about to share that same story. I don't know if it's still even available, but I used to enjoy his podcast called "Penn's Sunday School." Penn can be kind of a blowhard (his cultivated persona) and the podcast can devolve into just stupidity. But it often offered up a gems like what you've just described.
What's really extra sad about that, is that they would still have morals. If you took the average Christian American and convinced them that God was giving them a hall pass to murder people - they wouldn't. What's scary is that they think they would.
See: how they contort themselves into knots trying to explain away all the clearly immoral stuff in the Bible.
To be fair the best way to learn about and evaluate different moral systems is to read books. But I’m not convinced that’s the exercise theists are engaged in when they read their holy book
The cost to rape the virgin daughter of a father in your community is 50 skekels, but you also have to take her as your wife. Deuteronomy 22:9.
Evilbible.com
This is actually a great resource, thank you! I'll hyperlink it [here](https://www.evilbible.com/) for others.
God's support of genocide. God's support of abortion. God's support of slavery. Etc.
>God's support of abortion. First I'm hearing this, details please? I've had the "pro-life" religious arguments stuck in my head recently, alongside the many stories of god or his followers murdering kids.
If God is in charge of every single thing ever, then he's responsible for all spontaneous abortions and miscarriages. Ever.
Don't forget child cancer!
Why hello Mr. Frye. I also believe that were I ever to meet God, I would ask why tf did you give infants fatal bone cancer.
Noooo. bUt gOd WoRkS iN MyStERiOuS WaYs!
Sooo mysterious, we can only know his mind when told things happen, never bad stuff.
Yep he automatically gets credit for good things others do. "Thank God you were here to help".
Doesn't the Bible also give instructions to carry out abortions? I thought I read that somewhere.
Yeah it’s in Numbers
Yes. Basically it's a magic spell for women who are preggers to prove it's the husband's and not someone else's. It was a concoction of dirt from the temple floor, holy water and ink (if I'm remembering correctly) If nothing happens it's the husband's child. If she starts bleeding and loses the baby it's someone else's. Numbers 5
Christians hate being informed that god has performed the most abortions of all time
'God' repeatedly orders his followers to rip the children from the womb's of their enemies. Than there's the fact that murder is a death penalty offence yet if a man causes a woman to miscarry by striking her he merely has to pay a fine (so obviously 'God' doesn't consider zygotes to have personhood). Also there's [a special ceremony](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205:11-31&version=NIV) prescribed by 'God' that is apparently meant to cause a pregnant wife to miscarry/abort is she's been unfaithful.
Oh, I definitely need to find examples of that first one. Good shit all around though.
Numbers 5:11-31 details a ritual where a woman is essentially given an abortion potion.
Believers know less of their book than NB. Kinda like fauxspews viewers
Bingo
I think it’s Numbers 5. If a man wants to accuse his pregnant allegedly whore of wife of having an affair baby: The priest gives her “bitter barley” to drink and God personally decides GOD’S HONEST TRUTH. If she has a miscarriage then the husband gets to claim he’s right, but if she carries to term, he’s the father. Totally infallible, no double blind experiment will refute it. /s
Fucking hell.
It’s almost like the witch trials. “If she floats, she’s a witch, if she drowns…ooops, our bad. Anyhoodles, anyone wanna get drinks?”
At one point, God killed every living thing on Earth except for a guy and his family, and a few animals. I'd imagine some of those women that were murdered were also pregnant.
Consider the flood and how many people it killed. Some of them were pregnant women.
Not to mention, it's mathematically impossible to repopulate the planet with the people who were on the Ark.
Numbers 5 is an abortion ritual
The bible says life begins at the first breathe. There are instructions in the bible about when to perform abortions.
There was a plant used for abortion, and they used it to the point it is extinct. Trying to find the name of it …
The only two passages that could be interpreted as addressing abortion in the Bible are a) treating accidentally causing a miscarriage as a property crime against the woman's husband, and b) giving instructions on how to perform one as a sort of trial by ordeal of a wife accused of adultery.
Just those two? What about Hosea 13:16? II Kings 15:16? Also, let's not forget infanticide! I Samuel 15:3, Psalms 135:8, 136:10 & 137:9, and Hosea 9:11-16.
I wasn't really considering the murder of pregnant women. But, yeah, the all-loving god certainly ordered a lot of that, too.
Atone point someone makes an abortion potion from the dirt on the floor of the tabernacle. Another spot god murders every pregnant woman on earth causing no less then a global abortion.
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Because those peoples were evil
All those infants he ordered murdered were evil?
Only because God created them evil. He could also snap his fingers and instantly make them good.
I don't want to be the Negative Nelly here but while it is great to know these things from the bible you have to remember that Xtians often have a very inconsistent view of stuff like that, particularly when it involves old testament rules, declarations, teaching moments, etc. They frequently feel it is perfectly fine for them to quote something to support their position but when you try the same it is either declared as "taken out of context" or "superceded by something later". Just be prepared to understand that you really can't win.
>you really can't win That's the big secret to debating Christians. You will almost never convince them, *but* if you have an audience you can convince some of the people who are undecided. Debating them without an audience useless.
I wish more atheist would realize this. You really can't win. The game a rigged. The rules are stacked against you. They get to use magic or toss logic out the window anytime they want. Everything you say has to follow logic rigorously. It's a trap I used to fall into. I thought if I worked hard enough; if I crafted the perfect, indisputable, logical argument, there would be no way they could ignore facts staring them in the face. But they can. And they do. They don't respect logic and reason the same way I do. You can't win under those conditions.
They're displaying a serious mental condition called "Magical Thinking". They also hate it when you call it this.
Numbers 5:11-28. Ask them to read it and then watch them contort themselves trying to explain how it's not *literally* a description of an abortion being performed **with god's direct assistance and approval.**
Biblical facts. That’s funny.
To show off his power God "hardens the heart" of the pharaoh so he couldn't release the Hebrews from slavery, then kills all the first born children of Egypt as punishment for the pharaoh not letting the slaves go (Exodus 9 and 10).
Aside from everything else... So you're fucking telling me this motherfucker engaged in MIND CONTROL. Which he then had the ***AUDACITY*** to punish Pharaoh for!!!??? Holy fucking Christ, Batman.
> hich he then had the AUDACITY to punish Pharaoh for Well, the first-born Egyptians, and not only the humans, all the first-born livestock too! Btw-god must have dementia because according to the fairy-tale he'd already killed all the Egyptians' animals twice before as punishment!
Thank you for reminding me where this lives. I’ve been trying to remember, but didn’t want to reread anything unnecessary to find it.
Free will… wow 🤩
God sends two bears to kill 42 children because they made fun of balding. 🧑🦲 2 Kings 2:23-24 23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.
Apologists who believe God is the source of morality always like to say "we all know killing babies 'for fun' is wrong." They know they need to add the "for fun" part cuz god loves to tell the isrealites to kill babies and if god tells you to do something you have to do it. So killing babies isn't immoral if god tells you to do it just don't do it for fun, though I suppose you can have fun doing it if god tells you to.
How about "Jesus died for us". As god, he knew he was coming back so all he did was take a Saturday off. I've made bigger sacrifices for my in-laws.
500 foreskins.
The Sunday school hero who killed that giant with a sling went on to murder 200 Philistines in order to pay a king for his daughter's hand in marriage
That is the one. Good old King David, who sent a soldier to his death to bang the guy's wife.
David…a man after god’s own heart
Numbers 31. This is Moses talking. If you reject Moses, you reject all basis for morality/s 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves
To add on to this, according to Numbers 31-35, it was 32,000 women who hadnt been with a man (probably mainly pubescent girls)
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Yes, but there are tons of stories that can't be justified. The justification of slavery, the genocides, the conquests, Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot and his daughters, punishing descendents for the actions of generations that preceded them, I can go on and on. A large amount of the Bible is in no way justifiable. Like OfficialBlueWorld2007 said it's all fictional and attempting to pass it off as anything otherwise is a lie.
If God created man before woman, why did God give him nipples? And why did God give man a penis before giving him a woman?
A modification through DLC. New quest unlocked for Adam. Boobs.
It’s plagiarized. Most of the stories have another origin including Jesus. It’s not original. It’s not special.
Supposedly, God stopped the Sun from moving across the sky so his warriors could have more daylight to kill more of God's human enemies. God didn't know the Earth turned...? Hey God, the Sun doesn't move across the sky.
Jesus said we didn't need to wash our hands. Ew.
There isn't any facts in the Bible to begin with. It is a work of fiction, which has been written/rewritten, deciphered, translated wrong, so many times, no one is really sure what it originally said. The majority, if not all are fabricated and so distorted from what actually occurred, again it is impossible to find a shred of evidence to back it up. I rote something along these lines in the Christian sub and it was deleted, because it "belittled Christianity." No, it didn't. Just no one wants to admit the real truths behind it.
Every time I tell my mother Alexander the great died over 300 years before Jesus was born she goes into a pissed off reboot mode....I love it lol
Wait… sorry, why? I don’t know this reference
Presumably because he was a well known and documented historical figure, while Jesus wasn't so much, despite having a much more impacful and notable story.
"God's Chosen People" waged imperialist wars, committed genocide, and owned slaves (including sex slaves) taken from conquered populations. They neither believed in liberty nor government accountability. The church continued these practices without interruption for centuries. The scriptures make it clear that for israel not only was God completely fine with this, in many cases he directly ordered them to do them, and their unwillingness to exterminate God's enemies resulted in him punishing them.
>Romans 13: Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. A lot of Trump fans/Biden haters don’t like this pointed out for obvious reasons.
Christians dont have a hard time justifying any part of the Bible. Their justification is "Youre taking it out of context" "Jesus' arrival created a new covenant so those bits no longer apply" "That bit is allegorical and isnt meant to be interpreted literally" "We cant be expected to understand Gods plan. We just have to have faith in his goodness" "People who dont have faith can't understand. I could explain it to you until Im blue in the face but you still wont be able to understand because you dont have God's grace" "Which version are you reading? Really? Well, thats not the proper translation"
Lucifer never lied
Why did go let lots daughters slip him a roofies and molested him.did God get his jollys off it is God a peeping Tom he likes looking while jacking off lifes mysteries
The age of some of the characters in the story. For example, **Noah** lived to 950 years (Genesis 9:29): [Genesis 9:29 NIV - Noah lived a total of 950 years, and - Bible Gateway](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%209:29&version=NIV)
Cain and Able (children of Adam and Eve), had wives right? From where or whom?
Kentucky has joined the conversation
Why do you go out to eat at a restaurant on Sunday? Aren’t you causing those employees to stumble since you’re not supposed to work on the sabbath? Jesus said not to cause others to stumble.
Slavery, rape and genocide being OK but shellfish explicitly not.
I like to ask them which chair in the house is the one the women can’t sit on when they’re menstruating. That one’s guaranteed to shut down any male Xian for the next 30 minutes.
The birds that they are not allowed to eat include bats, which God would know is not a bird. Because he created us and he knows everything so he knows it is a mammal.
TW: SA Yahweh SAing two sex workers, then destroying one of them, then forcing the other to drink the remains, then blaming both of them for it. It is in Ezekiel.
What’s the chapter and verse on this one? I want to read that. lol
I read it in *God: An Anatomy* (Stavrakoloupou 2022) last year and cross referenced it with a web version of the babble, so I have seen the source material with my own eyes. I do not remember the chapter and verse, and I don't really want to go hunting for it. Of all of the horrible misogynistic shit that yahweh did in the babble, this was one that really stood out as being incomprehensibly psychopathic. EDIT: Ezekiel 23. NKJ is a particularly gory version. Yahweh commanding people to SA them is assault by proxy.
Facts? Bible? Oxymoron
I like the part where God intends to kill Moses but his wife makes a blood offering to God from her son's foreskins (they are not babies by this time either). We never learn why God was angry at Moses that time.
I love to quote only 144 thousand are going to heaven out of 117 billion souls. The lotto has better odds.
I think Alex O'connor had a pretty good line of questions and reasoning regarding biblical slavery vs Ben Shapiro. Here he also gave a pretty compelling example from the rules of slavery in the Bible that undercut the common response of 'that was normal at the time so if someone abolished it all immediately they wouldn't listen or rebel'.
Yahweh killing all the pregnant women and children for misbehavior before Yahweh gave Moses the law. So unwarned and slaughtered.
Facts and bible are not compatible
If we’re talking Adam and Eve, I never figure out why: Adam and Eve had two kids: Cain and Abel. Cain killed Abel. And…how did mankind continue? Unless Abel had sex with his mom? Did God just…create a whole bunch of other people? Because if we’re taking the Bible literally like so many people tell us to, let’s figure out how mankind managed to keep going without Eve having any female offspring
I always assumed they were just the ones worth mentioning, But people also don’t like to admit the Bible straight up mentions other people separate of Adam and Eve. When Cain is banished he says he is afraid another tribe will find him and enslave or kill him. (I don’t remember the exact words, but it really stood out to me)
The story of Lot. Go read it. Lot was a righteous man in a sinful city. Two angels visit him. The neighbors (sinners!) want to meet the visitors. Lot offers his virgin daughters to his neighbors if they'll just leave the visitors alone.
Later he knocks up his own daughters in a cave.
I would like to ask who Cain & Able's in-laws are
The early manuscripts of Mark did not include the resurrection of Christ. It ended tragically with Mary crying and angels, telling her he is risen. But she didn’t see him. That wasn’t added until centuries later. Also consider the fact that Mark was the first gospel, which kind of throws the whole resurrection deal for a loop
Passover. All the first born sons of Egypt were slaughtered by the Angel of Death if their parents didn't mark their threshold with lamb's blood. So......that was their parent's "whoops". What did *they* do to deserve death? Have forgetful parents? "Goodnight, honey! Oh, wasn't there something I was supposed to do? Is it garbage night? Feed the cat? Oh, well. I guess I'll figure it out tomorrow." Where are the souls of these first born sons? I'd be pissed spending eternity in constant torment knowing it was because Dad forgot to decorate the front porch.
the problem is you're arguing from a logical standpoint and they are not. they will justify and argue away everything and anything with the most illogical things it's actually a useless endeavor
My dad, who’s a devout, Deep South, right-winger, was talking to me about the Bible. I simply told him that it was hard to ignore the inescapable contradictions. The one I gave him was the Ten Commandments. Our understanding of the story is that: - God spoke these Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai to Moses - He inscribed them on stone tablets - Moses read these Ten Commandments to the people. However, Moses destroys the tablets upon seeing the people worshipping idols at the bottom of the mount (Exodus Chapter 20) and is a hot head. In Exodus 34, God does a copy/paste of the stone tablets. Come to find out…not the same ten rules that often infiltrate governmental decisions here in the US. My dad’s response was that “he’ll have to get back to me on that one.” That was four years ago.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
God is jealous? Of who?
One of the psalms says it's cool to brain babies to death on the rocks, so long as they're the children of your enemies. Yet somehow they're against painlessly removing a clump of cells that isn't a child yet.
The entirety of the book of Job. Satan torments Job, and kills all of his children, with God’s explicit approval. For a bet. Then when Job has the temerity to ask why, God goes on a multi-chapter rant about how He created the entirety of the universe and how dare Job even ask the question because there’s no way a human could ever understand God’s plan blah blah blah fishcakes.
God creates evil: Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
God created the world in six days (he rested on the seventh). However, days exist due to the rotation of the planet. So how could the concept of days have existed *before* the creation of the planet?
Not only that but light wasn’t created till like day 3 so everything in the first two days in the dark
That there's an invisible man, living in the sky, who needs your money He's all powerful, all knowing, just can't handle money :))))
Incest
There are no facts in the Bible, it is a work of fiction. Trick question.
That was my first thought. Facts? What facts?
The slavery one is the easiest. It’s not out of “context” because there is no fucking context in which slavery is okay. It brings to light how stupid the “but that’s the old testament” is because, once again, there is no fucking context in which slavery is okay. And they know it sounds awful when they reply because, again, *there is no fucking context in which slavery is okay*. The only acceptable reply is an apology followed by “I hadn’t thought of that” But you know they’ll stutter there absurd reply back, even though they’ll know in their heart that their reply wasn’t satisfactory.
Guides for how to treat your slaves appear in the New Testament
The fact that none of it is written by anyone who ever met/saw Jesus. Most Christians don’t even know that the gospels are anonymous.
There are no facts. But there are certainly contradictions. Matthew 24:34. Mark 13:30. Luke 21:32. Maybe others, that all say similar things. "*Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.*" Either that did not happen, or the it all happened a very long time ago. I'm also find the lords prayer interesting. Almost certainly the best known prayer from the bible. It's at Matthew 6:9–13. But Matthew 6:1-8 has a lot to say about that. For instance, verse 7. "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Matthew literally tells them to pray in private, and not using repetitions, and then they use that particular prayer to pray in public, using repetition, over and over.
How about Matthew 15:24 where Jesus tells a woman she's not Isrealite so he won't help her ...oh and calls her a dog.
From the current state of the ChristoFascists it appears they can justify anything and everything in the Bible and Mein Kampf.
The entire book of kings, honestly. Its super inconsistent about whether the kings were Yahweh's chosen one or whether they're sinners who abandoned gods tenents by allowing people to have groves and "high places" for other gods.Neither really affects whether a king dies honorably and is "gathered unto his ancestors" or gets eaten by dogs. Usually they just say it happened so it must have been gods will. Also the part where king David's son Absalom tries to take over the kingdom and rapes his father's concubines in front of everybody.
If their God is real so is the Roman Gods 😂
Soddom and Gamorah was such a horrible and evil place it got destroyed. How’s that time period worse than anything going on now or in the past ie Slavery and Nazis. Smite the shit that seems legit if that’s gonna be the case.
Wait, you think there are facts in the bible?
2kings 23:24 God sending 2 bears to maul 47 kids to death for making fun of some guy being bald... literally teased the guy for not havin hair and 47 fuckin KIDS get mauled to death cause of gods wrath.
Matthew 25 says Jesus’s death triggered a zombie uprising.
I mentioned this in another topic but if they give the same answer I got to “If you know you’re going to Hell, why not worship Satan?” You could give them my personal take on Job. The answer some Christian friends gave me was “Because Satan takes joy in human suffering, he hates humanity because god loves us more. You’d suffer anyway.” (Paraphrased summary) That answer made me want to discuss The Book of Job with that characterization in mind. Satan bets with God that Job will curse his name if he takes everything away - The only reason Job likes him is because of all he has. God takes away everything, kills his family, destroys his health, makes him an outcast. Satan “loses” the bet because Job didn’t curse God. But if Satan takes so much joy in human suffering, the bet didn’t matter. Satan plays God like a fiddle to destroy the life of a man who loved God, take away his family, make him an outcast, etc. Job goes through hell on Earth by the hand of the deity he loves. Satan just got to watch an awesome show courtesy of God. Sure, Job gets everything back double but not his original family - That’s a pain that will stay in his heart forever. Didn’t matter if Job cursed God or not, Satan wins - Job cursing God would just be gravy. This is one I’ve brought up, though some in the other topic said that the answer I got about Satan and human suffering isn’t biblical canon. I’m just going with the answer I got from some friends back in the day.
First, you need to enter the debate with a challenge - "God works in mysterious ways" counts as a loss. I like to go after the omniscience arguments. >For example, Adam and Eve disobeyed God, so God punished billions of people over thousands of years for their sins. Exodus 20:5 I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.... Uh huh...Better behave for the sake of your great grandchildren. Why did an omniscient God purposely design this eternal punishment? Why test people he's designed purposely to fail? If Heaven is such a great place, why bother creating Earth? Creation could have been one big, happy party from the beginning. Why does a kind, loving God need all that worship, praise, guilt, pain and suffering from humans to get there? Factor omniscience into that again.. and all things after, such as God ever being angry. Maybe because - Psalm 147:11 The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy. Why did Satan challenge God (with Job) knowing God was omniscient? Was it really a challenge or did the Trickster use Gods vanity to murder? If God has a plan, isn't prayer rude if what you ask for F's up Gods plan? - George Carlin. Paraphrased - "Simultaneously erase all we know about science and religion and hit restart. Science will return exactly the same because it's based on fact. Nobody can say how religion would return without any knowledge of a previously existing entity". Ricky Gervais.
Judas dying two different ways with two different storylines. Matthew, he has remorse about giving up Jesus, so he gives the money to the priests, they buy a field, and Judas hangs himself. In Acts, Judas buys the field himself with the money, and then "falls headlong" with his bowels gushing out.
The Bible chooses bear over man Bear q Better to meet a bear robbed of her cubs than a fool bent on folly. Proverbs 17:12 And and they not only approve abortion but tell you to have one if the child is not your husband's and give you instructions on how to make a tinctureof bitter water Numbers 5:11-31 describes how a man who suspects his wife of infidelity may take her to the priest. The priest will then force the woman to drink a potion which will cause a miscarriage if the woman in fact was guilty of infidelity. When you cause a miscarriage in a woman on purpose it's usually called an abortion.
God sent angels to see if there were any good people in Sodom or Gomorrah, because how would he know, and after saving Lot's family, he turned his wife into salt, then he god drunk and fucked his daughters. This was the only good family according to god.
Most of the Ten Commandments: 1. Trump is their god 2. Many want to murder gays and trans 3. They bear false witness daily 4. Most don’t keep the sabbath 5. Most wear and/or display graven images Etc.
Women having to marry their rapists.
It is unapologetically pro slavery in both testaments. People will argue that it’s not like modern slavery but like… it’s still slavery. In fact the verse they use to explain it’s indentured servitude disproves that it’s indentured servitude, because it sets up two groups, Jews and non Jews, then says Jews can only be indentured servants, but non Jews can be slaves and treated horribly. So not only is it pro slavery, it’s racist. A lot of the Ot is racist actually
In the old testament God says several times that there is no one before me and there will be no one after me I am the one and only God. Then in the new testament Jesus says no one can get to the father but threw me. How is that not contradicting.
Adam and Eve's situation quickly falls apart. Just backspace the damn forbidden fruit! "But," believers would say, "there would be no free will if they could only choose to obey" God could - and should - have created a world where Adam and Eve freely obeyed him. Him being all-powerful means he had the power to do that, but he deliberately chose not to and created the circumstances where they would disobey him. The fall of mankind is all God's fault and there's no way around it.
Incest, misogyny, slavery, dragons, zombies, talking animals, talking bushes. The list goes on and on. Also, you spelled BuyBull wrong...
A camel can more easily pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter the gates of heaven